Unironically Nioh Would have bean a better game to me than Sekiro if only it didn't have Random loot drops and wepon...

I agree

>Would have bean

Attached: 1515641736223.jpg (177x220, 25K)

Yeah, the random loot killed Nioh, along with the mediocre level design and lack of enemy variety of course.

If you disagree you simply don't understand game design, sorry.

>Yeah, the random loot killed Nioh, along with the mediocre level design and lack of enemy variety of course.
>
>If you disagree you simply don't understand game design, sorry.

Attached: 1563656464360.jpg (320x383, 59K)

Why do people complain about the loot in Nioh, but not in Diablo? It's fine if you don't like that particular kind of game, but it's not exactly a flaw.

soulsfags wanting every single game to be souls

Not to mention, during the first playthrough the random loot is completely irrelevant, just reforge every 2-3 missions and disassemble everything else. It gets more important when you start crafting and upgrading divine weapons.

souls refugees find it confusing

I dont like diablo

You can do perfectly fine by using only the highest level equipment, assuming you actually try to learn the combat mechanics. Every game gradually opens access to skills so people can get to grips with what they have, people are already horrible at trying to learn the basic movesets as it is.
If you're capable enough you can win on any difficulty as long as your equipment is merely up to date and you actually learn and use the tools and mechanics properly. It is not unlike Sekiro in that regard.

This.

Nioh's 'problem' is that there's so much randomized loot that exploring to find secret treasure is pointless
Sekiro's 'problem' is that there's no unique loot outside of upgrade materials so exploring to find secret treasure is pointless

I love both games for what they are but a happy middle ground to reward exploration would have been great for both

Then why bother with it in the first place if it doesn't serve a function until NG++ making everything you've collected until then pointless

>making everything you've collected until then pointless
I would argue against it being pointless since you still get all the useful materials by disassembling. Ultimately it's just a system among many other, for the first playthrough it gives you access to new skins from time to time, money and the eventual cool weapon with maybe an elemental property you want to keep and soul match. It's maybe unbalanced and flawed, but it doesn't ruin the flow of the game even remotely as much as some people seem to believe, especially considering the game makes cleaning up inventory as fast and intuitive as possible.

some people like and care about which stats they have, so they can mix and match or see different equipment since their very first missions instead of gating stuff until higher difficulties. there are also people who don't care, and in that case they can just sort by highest damage and update their stuff every several missions and still cruise through the game. this is called basic game design, you design the game to be a game since it's start unless you are running a designated grind franchise that is known to lock stuff behind grindwalls.

Honestly, it's not much of a fuss. As stated before you can just grab the highest raw damage thing in your inventory and go through the game like this until very high difficulties where you have incentive to look at specific equipment traits. If you throw a fuss over this you may suffer from ADHD spectrum disorders.

It still was for me. Really looking forward to the second game.

NIOH 2 BETA WHEN

>that exploring to find secret treasure is pointless
Explorations gives you consumables that gift you skill point
Any random useless weapon you find can be turned into amrita
Accessories are always welcome since they have potential to change your playstyle
There's no such thing as "pointless exploration" in Nioh

why do you reason with these retarded trannies? they're literally the 1-playthrough/got filtered early types.

soulsvirgins want every action rpg to confide to their (shit)taste

That's not cool treasure though it's just microscopic stat advantages and money increases. I love Nioh but you learn pretty early on that opening a chest or looting a corpse hidden in a clever out the way path isn't going to be any more special than any other item drop, and usually worse than a revenant drop.

>That's not cool treasure
Nobody cares what the cool treasure is for you, micropenis

I was sleeping on it until TGS. It's looking pretty great. Also, my favorite period of part of Sengoku.

I got burned out before Way of the Nioh but I did everything up to that point, and whatever the bare minimum was for the abyss trophy. Don't sperg out because someone criticized a small portion of a game bitch

To play devil's advocate on this, considering the other two universal complaints (repetitive levels and few enemy types) it's one of those things that since we rarely find new content by means of exploration and instead find similar or the same content with just higher numbers, exploration doesnt really feel like we're "exploring" and more just "cleaning up" which doesnt carry the same excitement that discovering something new usually evokes in us

>criticized
That's not a critique, you literally don't know the most basic things about the game

Items in level spots aren't randomized and neither is equipment the first time. Besides that there are several other important things you can find so exploration is never actually pointless.
It's not pointless at all just because you can learn to deal without it if you'd rather be that obtuse. From the beginning it still offers a variety of options for building and strengthening you and defining your playstyle, and all the items, knowledge and resources help very much as you proceed and later on.

Nioh is dogshit

>victory comes from how well you understand and execute the combat mechanics.
please don't say this anymore i can only coom so much per day

Because I don't think 400 pieces of the same white rarity gear is as exciting for the player as finding 1 new unique armour set or something? Grow up retard

In about five weeks, actually.

>why do people complain about things?
Wow, insightful faggot.

>don't like how the loot works
>try playing all the way up to way of the nioh without using loot for a good build

Those difficulties are for people that like the loot system, just finish it on the lower difficulties and move on you autistic retards.

You find new armours by exploring in Nioh regularly long before you can get smithing text for them
Again, you don't know shit about the game, your complains are retarded

Nioh is skill based diablo is basically just numbers.
Numbers should not play a role in a skill based game.

There are specific drops placed all over the place - many times with stats set up to specifically prep you for the boss at the end. The stage with Hino Enma or whayever gives you a full set of archer gear with paralysis resistance, so you know to expect something with paralysis that will be coming at you from a long range. You get a full set of lightning resistant armor just before Nue. Lots of chests always drop an accessory and they all have the potential to roll an amazing stat like elemental damage reduction. Even low level weapons can still roll a great inheritable stat.

I’d argue it way better than “oh sweet, another unique weapon I will never use because I hate this weapon type”.

I never said exploring was pointless I said exploring with the expectation of finding some special secret treasure is pointless, and it is with the exception of unique offline revenant helmets and a handful of free skill points that can just be grinded for anyway.
I have no idea why this thread of all places is getting so ridiculously offensive about the idea of quantity vs quality, I love Nioh but the spergs here are something else

Here's your enemy variety, bro.
nioh.wiki.fextralife.com/Enemies

Yeah and you can just kill revenants to get all sorts of gear long before you'd encounter them in the game aswell. That makes finding them by exploring even less special. I don't know why you're so vehemently defensive and insisting I don't know anything about a game I've beat half a dozen times just because there's a small portion of it I think isn't perfect.

you reached WOTW while you're this hissy over diablo loot? I honestly doubt it. especially considering you're bitching about the value of diablo loot when in those higher difficulties the "diablo loot" effect ends and you can really sit down on stuff for ages while soulmatching it or grabbing orange items + rerolling for good special effects. the rest of the items at those difficulties become important gold/amrita/crafting material factories. you are very clearly not aware of these things so I respectfully call into question that you reached such a high difficulty.

There's plenty effects and things to make it far more than either microscopic or stat advantages. Early on is when everything is new to you and the specific equipment drops are available, so it will be special in some form, at the bare minimum due to a cool new design. There's also again, far more things besides equipment to find that are interesting.

>Yeah and you can just kill revenants to get all sorts of gear long before you'd encounter them in the game aswell
Revenant loot is semi-randomized depending on what person is wearing and what will be dropped for you.
Static loot is always there, there's at least one new set per mission in most main story missions that suits the theme of mission in some way.
Sperging out about people laughing at your idiotic complains won't change anything.

>Even low level weapons can still roll a great inheritable stat
See, I would say that's where the problem lies. You could be playing one level and complete a rather difficult challenge to acquire some decent rarity of loot or you could be in the post mission forging weapons with better stats with what you've had before, but then as soon as you start the next level even basic drops outclass what you spent all that time and effort making/acquiring. It almost begs the question "why bother?" when you can go about doing only basic battles and encounters and still be as well off as the person attempting the challenging encounters/trying to make the most of the crafting systems

>That makes finding them by exploring even less special
literally no one explores for gear
are you retarded? the best gear comes from drops and bosses. revenants stop mattering after 3 game cycles unless you want to farm glory.
you explore for gold, amrita, consumables and hairlocks. not for gear.

Nioh is the better game. Sekiro has the better art and maybe story, but that's really it. Nioh is grander and has more to it, it has a small but very fleshed out amount of weapons, tools and spells, armour and ranged weapons too. Ninja builds in Nioh are better than Sekiro.

NICE LA

good luck grinding Yasakani Magatama off the revenants retard

I'm not hissy over diablo loot you fucking illiterate, I said that randomized loot drops naturally takes away from the joy of finding a treasure chest somewhere and expecting to find something fantastic and original instead of a slightly different version of some gear you've found somewhere else. I have nothing against Diablo loot and builds in a game like Nioh, I'm just pointing out one of it's drawbacks. Do you think I'm responsible for every post in this thread you disagree with? Then I doubt you've got the mental ability to navigate the main menu or figure out how analogue sticks work and most likely don't even know what a video game is. This is how fucking thick you sound when you accuse people of lying just because they don't share the exact same views as you.

The vas, vast majority of revenants only ever use the same few gear sets. There are dozens of other sets you can refashion into, so finding random bits of armor is still a reward.

Oh shit, i sure need another piece of the wotw or red demon set

Neither of these points have anything to do with what I said about RNG drops naturally dulling the expectation of finding unique treasure from drops. How many items have you looted and how many of them have been Yasakani Magatama? I suspect a lot. You can also buy Yasakani from Tome, so even that isn't completely unique.
Yes, this is all true and I don't disagree with any of it. That said it doesn't change the fact that 99.9% of item drops you find can be found from any other source of loot.

>RNG drops
None of the important level drops are rng

>Neither of these points have anything to do with what I said about RNG drops naturally dulling the expectation of finding unique treasure from drops
i literally said it in my post, early game cycles you only explore for amrita and gold and hair locks/consumables, not for gear. most random boxes and treasures lying around drop mediocre gear, but the big ones usually hidden in top secret areas actually drop intersting stuff.
only in higher difficulty you want to loot every single corpse or box to find rare ethereal drops or rare accessories like the Yasakani Magatama or Yata mirror.

Being able to force a maxed out roll onto any and all pieces of gear afterwards is a pretty big deal. +20% damage is huge at any point in the game. Not to mention the moment you hit way of the strong and beyond all gear hits the level cap pretty early on and you aren’t going to be constantly swapping shit out. Soul matching to boost the level of your already perfect rolls becomes much easier too because you actually get a way to reset the costs. It all puts you in a far better spot than someone who is simply sorting their drops by level.

I agree, but there are so many non-important drops from treasure chests, corpses, etc that the amount of important item drops are a tiny fraction of a percentage that it makes the act of looting and sorting a mindless task that you just filter through at the end of a mission instead of every treasure chest feeling like a fantastic and unique trove. That's it, that's all I've been saying this entire time. You can disagree if you want and it might be an unavoiding aspect of the loot system but that was my one complaint.

diablo is also shit, it's not mutually exclusive

I explained why that isn't pointless because you do in fact find plenty of special secret treasure and much more besides. Especially from the beginning, finding free skill points you would otherwise have to grind for or use Amrita and levels on that suddenly mean you can explore a different tree or get that new move you were waiting on is a huge deal, and I don't know why you're pretending it's not. There are also effects and set bonuses than can drastically change you or your priorities while being cool and fun to use.
>anyone who disagrees with me is a sperg
Not a good look.

Yes, and none of that goes against what I said. Do you think you're arguing with someone that said that looting is pointless? That there is nothing worth picking up? That treasure is meaningless? What is your point because none of this is going against what I've said

>but there are so many non-important drops from treasure chests
There's less non-important drops from chests than in any souls game

Yes and with the exception of the scrolls, none of that is unique to hidden chests or areas, with the exception of the rare kabutos, which are nice to have but only a tiny fraction of the loot you're vacuuming up. The spergs are the people that immediately started throwing insults at me and accusing me of not knowing how the game works because I believe one miniscule aspect of it isn't in line with my preferences, and I stand by that.

I don't know if that's true or not, regarding unique equipment at least. I'm not arguining that all loot doesn't ultimately have a purpose.

Weapons do not scale that harshly at all, come on. You're ignoring rarity, Familiarity, weapon class, Soul Match and effects to justify a certain obsession that is neither necessary or even advantageous due to how effects actually work in terms of both strength and playstyle.
Gear you pick up can be just as useful as gear you find anywhere else. Moreso early game with some of the specifically placed stuff.

Keep in mind that this is an issue I have with loot systems in general, not just specifically Nioh.
I think I could be willing to overlook this aspect of the game were it not for the repetitive levels and sparse enemy variety. All three are part of an overall problem with the game where it feels like you're doing the same stuff over and over again with rewards expressed not in the form of more content but just better stats for items/harder stats for enemies and bosses.
If this were an MMO or substantially more multiplayer focused game this could be the direction you would need to take with it, but as a primarily single player experience it kind of falls flat

>exploring to find secret treasure is pointless
>Because I don't think 400 pieces of the same white rarity gear is as exciting
Holy leaps in logic batman
Nobody cares what your sperglord ass considers "exciting". Findind secret treasures means fidning strong weapons for this level range or new weapon types entirely which is important for the first playthrough when you don't have an access to smithing texts of any advanced weapons. Ninja mansion contains a strong cannon, ton of ammo for it and a master ninja locks al in a single secret room which is not pointless in any sense of the word. On NG+ it means finding yata mirrors, magatamas, divine and ethereal equipment.

The biggest problem Nioh had was the shit balance later on. Building for LW was the only way to clear higher abyss levels which also had stupid amounts of bullshit. You would also get one shot by everything unless you went full defense. The Ninjutsu that saves you from dying kinda made up for this but still. Also a ton of weapon types like the Hammer, Axe and Tonfas become useless later on.

I just fought gravestone NPCs for their loot, went warrior of the west for nearly two playthroughs then I got burnt out on Nioh.
Sekiro doesn't have anything on Nioh's loot and builds but I found it overall more enjoyable. Levels, story, bosses, encounters, everything felt better in Sekiro in that regard.

Attached: sekirowillam.jpg (952x839, 158K)

Clearly you do or you wouldn't still be arguining with me about my opinion of how the loot system affects the rewards of exploration. You still seem to think I'm saying that loot in general is pointless, which I'm not. Obviously finding tonfa in the first mission would mix things up, but you might find them from any random mook kill, or a revenant, and you find not find them from some super secret chest at all. That's the point I was making, that the loot found by exploring isn't leaps and bounds more impressive than loot found from other sources, and as such make the rewards for exploring feel less exciting to me. If you don't give a shit about how I feel then stop responding to me, I'm not right and I'm not wrong, it's a problem I have with the way equipment is dispersed. Everything you're saying you can find from exploring you can find from other sources, and that's my point. Obligatory 'fuck you' because that seems to be the only way you know how to communicate

When I last played Nioh it was before they released any of the DLC expansions, and from what I remembered it was very often I'd be getting basic/semi-basic drops that seemed to outclass whatever I had before (minus familiarity, I'll grant you that) with the only effects seeming to make a distinct difference were ones that provided innate elemental damage. If changes were made to the loot system afterwards within the DLC updates then I'll concede that I'm not familiar with that

>that the loot found by exploring isn't leaps and bounds more impressive than loot found from other sources
give me a source of skill point locks lmao

I’m always excited when a max rarity item hits the ground. White items translate to materials, amrita, money or possibly an inheritable. They aren’t as exciting as hearing the unique sound effects and and seeing the visual glow that comes with higher rarity stuff but they are still valuable.

>You still seem to think I'm saying that loot in general is pointless
You literally wrote this shit, not me.
There's virtually no problem with itemization in this game compared to any other ARPG out there.

Not him but those DO show up as mission rewards.

Very rarely (and only once) while being consistently hidden in secret areas of almost every level.

Leveling up, admittedly once you've done this about 1000 times your options are running thin but you probably don't need them with 900 hours gameplay under your belt.
They're also the only unique finds and are found in a fraction of a percentage of chests/corpses
Quote me then, the thread hasn't archived yet. You might have no problem with it and that's great but some people have different opinions.

I don't get the complaints about the loot system at all.
>Get new some weapons
>Sort by rarity or something now and then
>Pick the strongest one
>This will easily get you through the game
>Only really need to check and grind for stats in like WotN difficulty

This isn't rocket science here.

>Leveling up
leveling up to such a point you won't require skill locks doesn't come into play until you're at least in ng+++ you insuferrable idiot

>samurai game
>somehow the mc is a white man
I'm not playing that whitewashed dogshit game

I would say even if what they give you is something you can level up for, the locks offering a new form of skill acquisition is unique. Plus, the thing about equipment is it might as well not exist until you have it. There may well be plenty things someone might not find by chance, and it's the moment of finding that makes it special, which can happen from exploration just as often. Anyway that reaction is what happens when you try to argue for and frame a hugely subjective quality as an objective merit when there is a basis in gameplay. I would for example consider Tengu Fans to always be special as they're a unique consumable that are strong and fun to use.
Well, not a single part of this is true except for the shit balance part and it doesn't even hit the reasons why.

its funny because soulsbabbies hate the game for this very reason

All things considered, complaining that there isn’t unique loot to find after you have beaten the entire game multiple times over is pretty stupid. I can’t think of any game past like, maybe Dark Souls 2 where new crap gets added into repeat play throughs.

>y-you're wrong
Great argument. Let me guess, you never played deep abyss?

You don’t need to go full defense, but you should understand that taking NO defensive measures is going to lead you to a quick death if you ever fuck up a dodge or block.

>Oh sweet a nioh thre-
>Oh wait it's another thread complaining about loot drops
At least I'll be able to talk about it when the second beta comes out.

>repetitive levels
Each main mission has a very different layout, style and comes with it's own little mechanic or gimmick though. If you take into account the sidemissions, which are spaced out in between the main missions, they are generally formatted differently due to the smaller size and gauntlet/arena focus and are far shorter as a result. The most derivative still flip the level round.
>sparse enemy variety
The game does often take a mechanical approach to where the enemies go but there are still a wide variety overall, each with unique identity and decently wide movesets that are where the variety comes from, on top of how they work with the core mechanics of the game.
In both regards, Nioh is a game that shores those aspects up with giving the player huge variety and depth in options and mechanics. You're intended to experiment with different tools, weapons and strategies, which make every fight able to play out in extremely different ways. Focus much more on practicing with the intricacies of combat, and you basically always find new things. It's that kind of game.

In deep abysses you do. Unless you go for that heavy armor set with high %DR you're kinda fucked.

I have actually, as have many others who have fully cleared it at level 1, without LW, with every weapon. Axe and hammer are the same class of weapon, and neither it nor tonfa are anywhere close to useless. Quick change isn't the only defensive effect and most others are hugely effective even alone with little to no investment or drawback. The only "bullshit" thing is the buff clearing effect eating your Quick change and killing you in a combo, which starts in Wise and is both rare and still avoidable. Did I miss anything?

>nioh.wiki.fextralife.com/Enemies
theres only 32 unique enemies in the base game. theres no way people actually think this is fun right?

or broken down to be used when forging equipment

The wiki is incomplete and ignores moveset differences, there's actually closer to 80.

This. And don't forget the Way of the Nioh autism that expects you to grind for drops (999 abyss levels lol) in a enviroment in which even mobs oneshot you (two shot if heavy armor).

Let's see your deep abyss stats then. And other defensive effects like sloth talismans and devigorate talismans are useless in deep abyss because they only last a few seconds. Not to mention that something being doable doesn't mean it's viable or good. People have cleared DS1 with the Broken Straight Sword. That doesn't change the fact that it's objectively worse than 99% of the weapons in the game.

*if you're bad and don't understand a game's systems after four playthroughs

Lying on the internet won't make your game good.

My biggest issue with Nioh was the recolored enemies

I still think it's a better game than Sekiro but yeah, the loot system is fucking cancer.

but nioh does have very boring levels

its by far its weakest point

>addresses valid criticism with a wojak edit
You also forgot to mention abhorrent late game balancing but yeah, you are pretty much on the money. Interesting that even when strawmanning you can't avoid nailing its shortcomings.

Youtube is not far away. Devigorate lasts around 15 seconds and you can carry a maximum of 9. They are also not the only or the best defensive effects available, but you're very brave for admitting to Sloth usage. Actually trying to compare a literal joke weapon and weapons that lack certain tools or damage setups while coming with other strengths and advantages just tells me all that I needed to know.

Projecting won't make your lies true. Or make you better at the game.

I don't even know how anyone could begin to think this. The only valid criticism is the lack of enemy variety.

>youtube
When I asked for proof of (You) clearing abyss. Devigorate lasts way less than 15 seconds. I'd recommend taking out a stopwatch to fix your bad sense of time. And way to miss the point of the BSS comparison. The point is that just because you *can* clear the game with a weapon doesn't mean it's a good weapon or that the game doesn't have balance issues. And tonfas and axes are so awful in the endgame they're not too far away from joke weapons. Just compare them to LW setups or Iai setups and they're so much worse it's not even debatable.

>if it didn't have Random loot drops and wepon skill leveling
or boring art design, level design, enemies and bosses, then it would've been better, yes

Not my problem if you don't want to go where evidence has been for months. Now, the time may be affected by Onmyo Magic Power, but surely you wouldn't dare to question the ability of something you have barely any experience or investment in? Regardless it does in fact continue to last a significant amount of time and is not the only method available or even preferred. I understood your "point" completely, that's why I mocked the idiocy and false equivalence of it. I never once said the game doesn't have balance issues, that doesn't stop tonfa and axes having several powerful advantages and uses just because their specific setups aren't quite on the level of Iai loops. Even though Iai loops are human only, both weapons have far more Ki/guard break options and the game lets you buff attack to extreme levels anyway. But yeah Iai loops bro. Oh and LW is not weapon specific and even with different movesets and axe's comparatively shittier one, if you take that road it doesn't even matter what you use.

Sekiro is far better lmao