Well Yea Forums?

I would give the fat man belly rubs.

I would
and I did

Is it weird that I found her more attractive in Pathologic 1, OP?

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Why are you looking at me like that, Morgan?

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I just finished Pathologic 1, what the actual fuck was up with the 2 hidden endings? That game was absolute kino tho, one of the best examples I can think of for games as an artform.

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Only if the fat man is a metaphor for the Earth

Also, does Pathologic 2 have a sprint button or something, because slowly walking around that shitty town for 40 hours in P1 was pure suffering

yes. you can sprint and it's amazing. but, doing so increases "thirst" which you take care of with water. so instead of just saving up a billion water bottles to give to drunks now you need them to drink out of and make tinctures with

Fuck yeah, kill all fatties.

Depends. What race are the children?

the town is also very pretty in pathologic 2, imo. I really liked it, very comfy when not plague ridden or burned out and thug ridden.

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context please

Is life absurd? If it is, why live?
Existentialism is about what the meaning/purpose of life is and how we deal with life if neither exist, inherently.
An answer found in a lot of the Existentialists works is that if life is indeed meaningless, but that doesn't matter because we can create our own meaning and live for that.
If one can't create their own meaning, or if they find that inventing it is equally absurd though, you're brought back to the question of "what's the point".

I didn't make that picture, that's just my shot at trying to explain it.

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You can relate this to Pathologic in the character of Aglaya. Her dilemma is that she is aware that life is absurd. It's just a fictitious game made up by children to deal with death, or a meta step up, it's just a video game so who cares about anything that happens. She knows she'll die at the end because no matter what it's scripted that way. So her question is do you play along with what the Powers That Be tell you to, care about what they want you to, or defy them and defy fate by doing your own thing instead

Give me a gun.

I'm thinking too much into it, then. I'll keep filling my existential void with 2000s videogame merch and videogames, thank you.

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The more the fly struggles the more tangled it gets in the web, user.
the more tangled it gets.

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The way gaming murdered P2 seriously made me consider getting into the industry. I mean IPL spent 5 years on this project. During this time they crunched, sometimes worked unpaid, had to deal with hunger, yet all it took was couple of dumbasses to call this game hard after playing it like for what? 6 hours? I cannot be the only one who sees the disperancy between the amount of work and respect given.

>tfw wanna start 2 already but im still slogging through bachelors route in 1
1 is complete kino and fun as fuck, but even with a walkthrough these quests are bullshit
>go here at 10 o clock to do this
>arrive at 9:50
>dont see thing
>spend the next 15 minutes stressing out and save loading as to why the event didnt trigger

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as others have said, I don't think if it had been easier the gaming journos would have liked it anymore. I suck at video games and I was able to figure P2 out with a little endurance and patience.
I would like to know the real reason they hated it. I think the message of "life sucks, get used to it and do better" was not something they were willing to allow

Fpbp

Well, how did they get on the tracks? Were they drunk? Was it a suicide pact?
Eitherway, I would do nothing because it would be murder if I pushed the fat fuck.

if you can prevent their deaths but don't, is that not murder also?
if you saw an infant walk into the road and a car coming to hit it, and you were able to save her but chose not to, would you not be responsible at least partially for her death?
if so, you'd be just as responsible for the deaths of the 4 people in the first scenario only the cost for saving them is higher.

no im just a witness

im only an accomplice if i help kill them

No, I would not be responsible for their deaths. I was just an innocent bystander.

I finished the Bachelor's path in P1, but cause of some shit, I barely played through Haruspex, and haven't gone back since. Should I just go with P2?

P2 is great to do for your Haruspex run since the entire "you used to know the town but went away for some time and now return to see things have changed slightly" feeling hits you better since the town's layout is changed a very slight bit from 1 to 2

That's a fair way to view things, but I personally disagree.
I find that if there is a situation and it is within a person's ability to effect the situation, whether they choose to do so or not, they are effecting it regardless.
If a person is being raped, people hear the victim struggling but no one calls the police, did they rape the victim? Certainly not. But, by not acting, they have effected the victim's circumstances whether they wanted to or not and, while they may not accept the responsibility they would have for what happened, it is there regardless.
I don't believe we are able to choose whether we are responsible for something or not, I believe it is something that is thrust upon the individual, the particulars dependent on how the individual handles the situation.
To see oneself as merely a watcher of events and not an active participant, I think, is ultimately dehumanizing and disenfranchising.

then where did he spend all the years studying to become a surgeon if not in an university?

He has to be fat otherwise it won't stop the train.

in the army as a medic. this background is often hinted at as his possible responses and would explain his attire

You are guilty of inaction, but not murder.

But nothing in dialogues says he's been in the army, on the contrary he says "shit's fucked up" and mentions how he couldn't finish studying before he got the letter, unless i forgot something.

To relate this to Pathologic...
If I see a mugger attacking a steppe woman, or a guard or a drunk and I don't stop to help the innocent bystander, even if I'm on my way to saving Maria, or Big Vlad, or Murky (EVEN Murky), I am responsible for that NPC being murdered because I could have tried to save them and chose not to.
If I have 3 shmowders and 4 people infected, the person I choose not to give a shmowder to has a chance of dying because of it. Obviously I want all 4 to stay alive but if that 4th person dies, they did so partially because I chose not to give them a shmowder.

It's only like one or two mentions, you could easily miss it and now i think i may even be mis-remembering but i'm fairly sure he could say it at least once or twice to the Bachelor or Army people.

if murky was a boy, do you think people would be as inclined to like him? what if sticky was a girl, would she be more popular?

alright, now what if rubin was a woman. what if lara was a man. really makes you think doesn't it?

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Burakh went and studied at the capital but never got a degree
I think it's just that simple but I could also be mistaken

I still would want to kick genderbent Rubin's ass

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No, I'd either run over to the children, tryo to stop the trolly by signaling it, or jump in to it my self instead. What kind of degenerate psycho would try to prevent murder with murder?

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Murky is about as androgynous as you can get, though

she's still a girl, its easier to tap into the players protective instincts that way. plus being literally autistic isn't seen as cute in males.

Lets start with the actual classic.

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He wrote an essay saying that the basic question of philosophy is basically Hamlet's "to be or not to be speech"; to decide whether or not to continue living. Myth of Sisyphus, IIRC, not to be mistaken with the actual myth of Sisyphus.
I never finished reading it because the premise inspired in me a deep cringe, even though I can't argue with it.

>It's your fault because you didn't act, you monster!
>It's your fault because you pushed him, you monster!
>Signle train to stop while running to the kids.
>You tried to stop it and tried to untie the kids, don't beat your self up about it.
Imagine picking what's put in front of you, as if you'd realitically EVER have only those two options.

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How fucking delusional can you be? Normies hate hard games. Look at Souls, then look at Sekiro, then look back at Souls.
Journos suck ass, so they couldn't handle the Slavic bants, so they shat on it, if they bothered to address it at all. You think normies would have flocked if only the game had gotten more exposure?

In last thread someone posted day 12 results with alive Aglaya . How in the world guys you managed to keep her alive ?

That lemon is adorable.

Point taken. Sticky is still the #1 sidekick, however, no matter how much Murky and Grace deserve the best

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Love the rock, user.
Just because life is absurd doesn't mean you have to let it be

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>What kind of degenerate psycho would try to prevent murder with murder?

The army

sh-shut up, you peace-loving commie
I want Kains to be GASSED!

Should I read the walkthrough for Pathologic 1? I remember quitting because I couldn't make progress on my own.

Great question. I think if she wasn't a girl I probably wouldn't feel as protective of her. Maybe I would let female Sticky go mess around with dead bodies either. If Lara was a dude I probably wouldn't have made the damn schlep up to the Flank nearly as much either.

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>fatshaming

wow

After you discover that you get mail offscreen and there's a dedicated button to read it, you shouldn't need a walkthrough.

wouldn't let female Sticky*
Kains best family
fite me

>what if rubin was a woman

Rubin is cute and sexy but kind of an asshole and idiot . Same goes for everyones beloved Bachelor. So i find it hard to stand Rubin near myself and going to die alone. Wait, you asked about female Rubin, well that's much much worse.

Don't hate on the Kains.

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>game hard
you mean call it "dark souls of skyrim"

Maria is a fucking bitch holy fuck die in hell red woman.

It's possible to do both.

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Maybe try getting a degree before talking with women, Vorakh

It annoys me how Artemy keeps talking about how sexy she is when she's easily the least attractive woman in the game

That's why I've said 'gaming' rather than just journalism. P2's failure imo is a symptom of several problems in gaming. If putting out a genuine work art with 5 years of dev time is not enough to get respect from people then something is really wrong and going into the industry is just asking to get hurt.

I don't think that's possible. I was able to keep everyone alive that is able to be kept alive as far as I know and that was not changeable.

Do you have pathologist license?

>now i think i may even be mis-remembering
Pathology doing its job.

the point of the question is to start a discussion or just think about ethics. There is no objectively correct answer

No. You're not responsible for the death of the children. whereas you are responsible for the death of the fat man.

>save five kids
>get rid of some cunt that hogged resources to the point that he got fat

In early 20th century Russia this is not a moral conundrum, it's an obligation

>option 1 has a hot white woman who would probably have sex with you
>option 2 has 5 migrant kids who don't even speak your language

Does that change your choice? A life is a life after all it shouldn't matter since you'd be saving 5 at the cost of 1.

Fuck, even in the Town that's an obligation. Have you SEEN how emaciated Burakh is? After Alex Yu gets splattered, Burakh will be fed for at least half a day!

Which would damage your own conscience more, killing the fat man or letting 5 kids die even though you could have prevented it?
Of course the kids will affect you more, which means yor decision is made entirely to cover your own ass from the legal system.

I would not, because I'm not a killer.

I don't care about the woman, just fuck migrants.

On the contrary, the issue is being discussed in the abstract. In the moment, panicking, little time to decide, could you really push past your ethics that quickly? Are you utilitarian at lack-of-heart?

>If I saw an infant
In this problem we know why the person is in trouble; it's an infant thus it doesn't know better.

>Saving unknown people with no given identity
Here I don't know what kind of people are involved. Do they want to be killed? Does the fat man want to be killed? Both answers are probably no. Even if one or even both of the answers are "yes", I'm in no lawful position to commit murder.

You are connecting two unrelated events together to reach unjustified conclusions.

The reality of true responsibility's burden is something few can bear.

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It's almost like this is a hypothetical situation to explore ethics and not a recreation of an actual scenario

See you've gone past every philosophy involved in this question to a whole new philosophy: Extreme autism. When presented with a problem and solutions a and b you've instead invented solution c. Because you can't grasp the abstract thinking required to imagine yourself in this position without imagining some other fantasy. Now other people have to add one hundred other caveats so your autistic ass doesn't come up with some new "out of the box" solution for a question with only two possible answers.

Incorrect. The children are in unfortunate situation for sure, but not by my or the fat mans fault. It's highly immoral for me to end one innocents life to save another.

Killing the fat man because you are directly involving yourself and committing murder.
At any given moment you can donate money to help starving children or those suffering from illnesses to be given medical care in other parts of the world.
Most every single person in the west can sleep perfectly comfortably at night and with a clean conscious with that reality knowing that they can prevent the death of many children but since it's so far removed it creates a buffer for your morals.
The more direct your moral choices are to you the more they affect you so watching someone get run over most likely would be less traumatizing then pushing someone to their death.
You are simply not taking into account how people actually perceive morality.

real talk Aspity's end game conversation made me feel like a terrible person who did a terrible thing

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Implying that children arent just as obnoxious

>that Pinocchio option
hahahaha Burakh you child

>At any given moment you can donate money to help starving children
Imagine believing this. Poverty, famine, disease are a result of societal organisation, not lack of resources.

So I was thinking about this after I finished playing because it's in my bones still and I can't get rid of it.
Is it possible to view all the events that transpire in the second game as in no way supernatural?
The Polyhedron doesn't break any laws, Artemy just doesn't know the trick and no one explains it to him
The Abatoir sequence is just a cave with natural gases that mess with you and he's hallucinating + the added effects of exhaustion, deprivation and twyre
The Sand Pest and Fellow Traveler and Mark Immortel conversations are all in his head
The bloody liquid in the soil is just rusty looking for corroding pipes and has some positive effects for other reasons
Aspity is just a very strange woman and the Changling are just identical twins trying to ruse the town
This isn't my actual way of viewing the game but it was an interesting thought experiment.

>dude just continue playing when you die its part of the game, the punishment isnt too harsh
fuck you faggots, now i cant hug lara.

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I forgot this punishment and tried the option anyways and felt dumb as fuck when he's acting a fool about it

The competence of a government is a completely separate issue from donations to a group like doctors without borders.
Way to intentionally miss the point, which was that at any given moment you can help someone and possibly save their lives but inaction is taken as the default and moral for most every single person on the planet because of the degrees of separation between action and cause.

Very nice

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>53 FPS with those graphics

HOLY FUCK

You're sure that was day 12? There shouldn't be any way to keep her alive.

DAD I NEED A NEW HOUSE, THIS ONE IS SICK!

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>playing shitty buggy mess made by slavs who can't into vudya
Пиздeц дoлбoeбы. Хoтя вы cpaлкepa coжpaли и пpocитe дoбaвки

I miss her nipple buttons

>natural gases that mess with you and he's hallucinating
Get the fuck out of here, Layton.

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Aye, which can be tied back to the game. If you don't feel connected to the people around you, you'll happily let bad things happen to them because it's not your responsibility, you are separate from them. This is why Artemy's whole thing is making connections. He had to fix the town by connecting everyone to himself and by doing so he fixed the town. He takes responsibility for everyone, particularly the children, which is why he acts by saving them from the plague. In the Diurnal ending the fat man is the Polyhedron, Mother Bodho and the steppe creatures, the children tied to the train tracks are the town. I haven't seen the Nocturnal ending though so I can't speak to that.

Sticky is more likable than Murky by a lot. If he was a girl, he would be less likable. Also Lara is a horrible cunt so I assume she would have no fans whatsoever if she wasn't waifubait any longer.

B-but she gave me bread and milk on two different instances and lets me sleep at her house and washes my clothes and goes out into the crazy town and tells them I'm not a bad guy...

she's shit anyway why would you hug her.

Do I need to play the first Pathologic to play the second one?

Give
Me
A
Gun

you take that back. My cute tsundere childhood friend is not shit. Shes cute, cute and adorable

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Nah, brug. It's a remake. The 2 is just there because their publisher thought it made it more attractive.
Two of the main characters playthroughs aren't done yet so you could play the first game to see what they're like or just wait for them or watch a lets play of P1

Society does not care about what is technically the most logical.

No

he doesn't know Lara once knitted you a sweater

>Do I need to play the first Pathologic to play the second one?
Nope. It's really a remake, despite the dumb title.

The only thing to keep in mind is that in it's current state, P2 is a remake of just first of presumably three story chapters that the original P1 had.
So once you finish P2, you might want to go back to P1 and play the other two chapters if you really can't want for P2 to be completed (which might take... a while).

Other than that, P2 is just a perfect place to start for newcomers to the franchise.

she's dogshit and you're a pathetic cumskull waifuloser.

/IPLg/ wouldn't be a bad idea...

Go lick Big Vlad's balls, you dog. That's the only thing you are good for.

/vg/ is where video games go to die, user
What we need is a Polyhedron

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>cumskull
at least im not you, dont you want to add a wojack to that post?

No. Yea Forums needs pathologic threads

This one seems simple but I feel like I don't actually get it

Short answer is: Yes.
Actually, this is one of the unfortunate side-effects of the fact that P2 was rushed out in the state it was, rather than being a complete game consisting of all three chapters.

If it was, you'd likely play Bachellor's route first, and you would actually think this way in the FIRST PLACE. Each of the three characters basically offers a different way of interpreting the events in the game. Bachellor's route basically suggest precisely what you suggest. That there is a rational explanation for all of this (well, semi-rational, it's obvious that SOME things are weird in this world).
Because after all, Daniil is a scientist.

Meanwhile Artemy is still, above anything else, a successor to a Shaman's tradition. So his perception is... going to be skewed to favor a far more mystical way of intepreting things.

Then finially, Clara... Let's not talk about her.

But yeah, even though you have seen the side that by far more favores the supernatural interpretation of things: you still correctly inffered that is not the only way to interpret the events. Congratz bro, on genuinely paying attention and thinking about the game.

>reach ending
>choose to burn the orders instead of giving them to the army, thus preserving the polyhedron
> the game now turns into some mythical psychobabble bullshit where giant bulls roam the land

What bullshit that is let me tell you. I should have destroyed the fucking thing for a more realistic ending and put an end to this fucking steppe lore bullshit

Didn't mean to reply

He's right though, waifuscum are subhuman and you should die. You should not be here ruining discussion for this game. Go to Yea Forums.

She's ugly and also a dumb bitch.

You guys are being rude.

>kill threads by moving them to /vg/
>remove one of the few consistently good threads on Yea Forums
It's a TERRIBLE idea and you should be ashamed of yourself.

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Since the town doesn't get shot, there's an imbalance in reality and everything reverts to unga bunga because of it
Maybe Bachelor gets to shoot the town in his route in 2

thanks brug! that makes me feel not dumb, lol
I agree though, the way you laid it out would have been perfect

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Just a simple paradox, same as "this sentence is false".

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I see now the error of my ways

Got ya. Saving this new one

wait so delivering the orders to the general does not actually destroy the polyhedron, probably due to some children magic mumbo jumbo bullshit?

what the fuck man

>he doesn't already have a 100MB folder of trolley variations

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No, he was talking about burning the orders instead of delivering them.
If you deliver them you can even see the polyhedron fall.

Ýou have to be retarded to think the fat man would stop the train
>Oh man the fat man I just pushed is so fat the train can't push it.

I didn't see Murky's package until after I came back to the Lair for the last time. Imagining Murky struggling to pick herbs and get to the lair and back to her lonely traincar makes me really teary eyed

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oh I see. I might have to reload and try that, because FUCK Bos Turokh and FUCK the steppe people

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No, delivering the orders does destory the Polyhedron, opening the vein of Mother Boddho, allowing you to turn all of the supernatural Earth-blood into Panacea
If you don't deliver the orders, the army leaves without shooting anything, causing the supernatural to revert reality back to the Kin

Can anyone post any Dankovsky memes I need to beef up my collection

I'll get there someday, lol

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destroy the barn
Food is replaceable

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yes but only because these are my favorite threads on Yea Forums

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fuck off forever

Nah, you genuinely aren't dumb.

Basically the three characters each have their own interpretation of what the Sand pest is.

Bachellor sees it as as a germ that laid dormant under the city because the locals had a nasty habit of stuffing dead animals (sacrificed at the stone altar and burried in the underground cavers spreading from abattoir) for thousand of years. The polyhedron is actually kinda architecturally feasible, as it holds up thanks to a central pillar that is drilled VERY deep into the ground. In the process of digging the foundations of polyhedron, soil contaminated with the germ was brought to the surface, triggering the outbreak. Thus, the plague is really just a fucking germ.

According to Haruspex, the Plague is I result of human hubris, and inherent metaphysical contradiction that happend when "modern" scientific people, and place of old mysticism came into contact. The unlimited possibilities of science, and the strange nature of steppe mysticism clashed, and the very nature ITSELF basically send out it's antibodies to fix the issue. Thus, the plague is a metaphysical agent of the cosmos.

Again: I'm not going to go into Clara. She is just... messed up.

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We all know you're not going into Clara because her route doesn't actually have a unique perspective beyond some meta faffery, and would ruin the argument you're making.

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I would do it just for the laughs.

I remember doing the latin translation for this one, many, MANY years ago on Yea Forums.
I'm still unsure if it is right.

stop it changling, you're scaring me

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I thought that Burakh concludes that the plague is the result of Mother Boddho suffering under the town due to the construction of the Polyhedron which is essentially a 'wound' currently keeping the earth alive (therefore, if removed it would kill it, thus also draining all the auroch blood.). The sand pest itself is a manifestation of the "screams" of the earth and as a cleansing agent to the entire town so the Kin can get back in control of it because they're seemingly immune to the plague

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TRACES OF THE SUPERNATURAL

For me, it's the polyhedron

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This isn't a trolley thread, you fucking retard.

For me, it's the polyhedron.

From /sci/ with love.

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>a human would stop a train
the sjws are in the same class that flatearthers are

these two got me chuckling

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Make me stop, faggot.

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I liked Sticky and Notkin as well so I doubt it would have mattered either way. Lara would just go from your depressed tsun childhood friend to your depressed bro, and Rubin from a dick to a cunt.

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Please someone make a pathologic trolley problem so we can complete the convergence

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yeah the I find the whole vision of it amazing, the way they were able to tie so many different ideas together with the meta plots going on was really impressive. I have a feeling they're going to surprise us with Clara's playthrough and really go all out.
It's kind of funny how her ultimate way of dealing with things is actually similar to how the world actually got over the plague, just waiting it out.

What's wrong with Lara besides being upset about her dad? Her and Grief at least still give a shit about you unlike Rubin.

REVEL THEMSELVES MORE OFTEN

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Don't pull, you actually give 1/12th of a person life

Post it.
user, what did you expect when the OP is a character outright asking you the trolley problem?

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I expect anons to not behave like cognitively impaired memelords in a Pathologic thread.

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i think rubin gets a bad wrap especially considering his actions in the story. if he didn't care about artemy, isidor, the town, he wouldn't have acted like such a dick.

i like how he's introduced to us, basically set up to be disliked. it makes the truth all the more meaningful.

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Reminder that without the Bachelor keeping the town sane and Rubin working at the hospital all the time, the town would basically be entirely infected and burned out all the time which would have made it very hard for Artemy to make the panacea. Also I guess the Changeling does something

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Doesn't she ask you another question that is essentially Sophie's Choice but with two daughters instead of one daughter and a son?

What?

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Well no matter what you do the town's fucked.

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Actually, that is not true. I'm not going into her because I'm running low on space, and also because I'm tired. But I'll try. This might be the ULTIMATE spoilers for Pathologic, so read at your own risk.
She has her own perspective. It's about the nature of a human being itself. She does not really have that much to say about the Plague because she IS one half of the plague herself.
But where as Bachellors story about rationalism/idealism (power of science is unlimited, and it is our duty to transcend our "nature" and become effectively our own gods - even if it means countless innocent lives being sacrificed in the process): he sees Plague/death as a germ that needs to be exterminated and humanity forced into utopia.
Artemy on the other hand represents pragmatism: embraces the inherently flawed nature of humanity, decides to reject idealism, and desires to save as many poeple as he can - even if it means giving up on dreams of divinity and transcendence.
Finally Clara represents the view that the oppositions of our nature and desire for transcendence as INHRENTLY FALSE dichotomy, as she believes that we already contain both in ourselves. She claims that humans already REACHED transcendence that Daniil wishes for, and that that fact is actually part of our mundane nature that Artemy choses: because we have free will. That already makes us transcendent. To her, Plague is a result of misunderstanding, and a path for us to realize who we are: to remember what both Daniil and Artemy forgot.
That is why her path involves finding people willing to sacrifice THEMSELVES - out of their own free will. Such act will prove that there never was any opposition to begin with, that the plague was nothing more than an attempt to break down delusions about our nature that we have build, and that once we embrace that we already are both "nature" and "ideal", the whole problem will solve itself.

That is what I think.

yes. I took like 1600 screen shots on my second playthrough.

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I think that's the inquisitor's daughter you meet at Yulia's place.

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How

Ah well nevermind

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I took a lot as well.

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It's about "would you kill to save lives". A basic question which is why it's missing the details you crave so much

ayyy, I really like this. That sounds pretty good, my dude. I think you're on the money based on what I recall of her dialogue.

Given that if you don't figure out the panacea for yourself as Artemy, he DOES, literally getting himself killed in the process, and sends it to the Inquisitor under YOUR NAME, I think it's pretty fucking OBVIOUS he is a good guy.

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holy shit, I am day 2 on Clara right now. 10/10 effortpost. We should have more of these Pathologic threads instead of smash, ps4 vs xbox and weeb shit.

I love when these types of threads get inundated in trolley deviation shitposts
Reminds me of the better days of Yea Forums

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aye. I think he was basically traumatized by Isidor's death and lashed out at Artemy who he felt betrayed him by leaving in the first place but deep down views him as a brother as Artemy mentions several times.

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A, C, B, A, C

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I'm at my ropes end...

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lol, that's a good one
you were actually more correct relating to what the person asked for

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Imagine convincing him to stay at town to be your successor and then saying yolo and leaving with military.

is there a fourth switch that is basically a "fuck you for choosing this one fuck face"

The fuck would I not take my inheritance for?

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It is now.

GOD I JUST WANT FUCKING BACHELOR SO I CAN HANG OUT WITH BASED GEORGIY

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In my quest to try to be the most liked person ever, I realized that every time the plague infects a district, your likability there resets to base "no one cares about you". I'm assuming this is because they don't think you're very helpful if they're getting the plague.
If anyone was wondering about how that worked, there you go.
Also, fixing the broken pumps in a district is a big upper. They dig that.

I found his actions 100% logical and understandable. First of all: his position is horrible from the start. He is the "second one". Isildor is effective a father for him, just like for you, but he isn't of the Menkhu blood - meaning that despite being treated equally to Isildor, he is inherently denyied the same importance. He studied with your father as diligently as Artemy did, but had to always know he will never be allowed to really practice and make true use of the skills, just because of some dumb blood-related tradition. That is a lot of injustice and unfairness to swallow - even if he is smart enough to accept it, it just has to bubble inside of you.

Second of all: he was there on Isildor's side during the First Outbreak. Which was HORRIBLE. And no doubt it was incredibly painful to him, seeing how Isildor suffered and having to help him through. And STILL knowing that going through that shit does not change anything about him being "second class" compared to you.

And then, watching how after all of that, your desperate father was still reaching out to you, feeling utterly helpless, utterly cheated compared to Artemy, reminded of his second-class status, and seeing you n ot responding your fathers pleas for help - only coming back when it is too late...
I mean that is so much fucking frustration to swallow: He would be UNREALISTICALLY positive and strong character if he did not snap out at you the way he did.

Sure. It's not fair. But nothing was fair to him either.

And by the way: despite all this shit: being pretty clever:
THIS - the way we can analyze and understand Rubin (and many other characters) is what makes Pathologic actually, TRULLY a masterpiece.

The philosophy and metaphysics are cool, but the fact that the characters are so well written: that is what matters most to me about the game.

I'm about to start Pathologic 2. I've beaten HD completely, are there a lot of gameplay/survival alterations?

I think it's because people there die or leave so no one there cares about you because there is no one there.

Yes. Yes, there are. You are in for quite a treat.

Don't turn your back on bandits with knifers.

The infant question has no correlation in the case of what you're describing there either.
It's unrelated.

Yeah, absolutely, I agree with all that. Artemy is basically the prodigal son and he resents you while still feeling like kin to you (ironic).
If you buy into some of the subtext that hints that Lara liked Rubin as much as Artemy you could also see even another layer of that with sexual rivalry, too.
The characters really are great. That's why I'm looking forward to the Bachelor's so much because I feel like we'll have a lot more character interaction with him. Then Clara's "make them tell the truth" thing should be even more fun.
This makes a lot of sense too, lol.
desu, I literally only went into plague houses like 3 times across my 2 playthroughs, twice for Anna's baby mission and once on accident.
So I always assumed only a few of the houses were creepy crawly inside

Just realized that after Aglaya dies and you start walking back to the town following the railroad, it is actually a throwback to the prologue, when the bull derails the train you are on. The Executor says that railroads are like fate, they always lead to one destination, no matter how much you struggle(which isn't true, but whatever). You can't run away from fate, and you are once again reminded of it. .

How do you know it will stop the train? If the guy is THAT bog you probably won't be able to push him over, and otherwise if he's hit by the train he might counter react and kill those people himself.

i'm really biased towards haruspex and the more mystical side, but it's great interacting with people who are the same way toward bachelors side. it's like being in the town itself. all the more reason i can't wait for dandy's route. clara would just be great to have as a wildcard, i see her almost as a gift from ipl just giving us another option if we weren't satisfied.

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ooooooo, nice. That's good stuff my dude.
I never took that option. Couldn't do that to Murky and Sticky but I regret not taking it now, that seems like it's the true way

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>being a bitch-ass coward
>true way

Imagine playing through the game and not marrying Lara at the end

Is there a pathologic meme for "tom cruise laughing"? I thought i saw one but might be one of those dreems

well not like the best way but, you know, like the way that is the most complete

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I'm going to keep raving some more if you don't mind, because I'm finding myself sick and this is helping to distract me. So take it for what it is worth.

But I think I should clarify: everything here: applies to Pathologic 1, but I think P2 - at least the Haruspex route - actually makes things little more complicated, due to one small, but crucial difference between the stories.

In P1, Haruspex's dillema was entirely whenever to sacrifice our hope for transcendence and utopia (represented by Polyhedron). He canonically choses to do so: instead embracing our flawed nature - with all the weirdness, limitations of our knowledge (represented by the magical elements), and our mortality.
However, in P2, the sacrifice is different: because this time, destroying the polyhedron ALSO means killing the Heart of the Steppe. So we are not only killing the rationalistic utopia, we are ALSO killing the Steppe mysticism this time. We are - as revealed in the dream with the Albinos - literally killing the magic.

And that makes the sacrifice much more nuanced, and strays further away from the simple schematism of the first game. And frankly, far more painful. In the first game, I always though Artemy's solution was pretty objectively the best one, maybe because I have an anti-utopist bent (comes with history of Marxistic ideology in my country).
However, killing both the dreams of Utopia, but also the beauty of magic and mystical: that is a much harsher solution.
I believe, and this is really straying into speculation teritorry, this is partially to deliver a more complex and nuanced representation of Pragmatism as a philosophy. Because it's kinda true - in P1, pragmatism is defined as rejection of rationalism and utopism. But in P2, it is a rejection of ANY idealism what so ever. Including the "idealism" of magical thinking: the heart dying with the polyhedron.
I do think I like this take. But in retrospect it's depressing as fuck.

Asking the real questions. The answer is, of course not, you have a penis in your pants, why would you pick a lever over it? Check mate.

>abandoning everyone you made your goal to protect near the end to go with some chick you barely know
Shame the best track in the game only plays for being a coward though. Also thread theme I guess.
youtube.com/watch?v=_JUDG8F6AyY

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I'm chalking up this next to the guy in the train being Death itself on the list of cool new shit I'm learning about the game each time I see it discussed.
This shit like Borges'es stories. Even after years you can still find something more to learn about it.

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this is why i will continue to believe that artemy is aware of lara's affection but chooses to discourage it so rubin can have her there is herb brides, after all.

think it's likely they were setting up sticky to be quite similar to rubin in this way?

Is that really the only time it playes?
I agree on it being the best track in the game though. It's fucking amazing. I've been listening to it on repeat for months now.

This post was made by the Burakh gang

Dude, I figured out like a day ago that you can dispel sentry plague clouds by walking through them with the lamp. I felt dumb as hell. Always just plunging through them then chugging tinctures afterwards

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Albert knows that Bernard doesn't know, which means the correct letter can't be A or B.
Bernard now knows that the correct letter isn't A or B when he didn't know that before, and that is enough information for him to conclude the correct pad when combined with knowing the number, so it can't be 1.
Albert knows that the above information was enough for Bernard to conclude the correct pad, and now knows the correct pad himself, so it can't be D because there would still be two possibilities.
The correct pad is C3.

>think it's likely they were setting up sticky to be quite similar to rubin in this way?
Makes sense. But I think Sticky is ultimately in a different situation, because if you kill the Heart, I don't think there is much point in continuing the Menkhu exclusivity tradition.
But yeah, I think Sticky is supposed to be to you what Rubin was to Isildor.

>somebody saved my shitty meme

Nice

It's the only time i've heard it play.
>Not the Termites gang

It's a classic variation on the problem.
It's used to illustrate the difference between 'Passive' interference and 'Active' interference in a situation.

Most people would pull the level to change tracks but most people would not put the fat man despite it being the exact same act in a detached view.

Or to be precise to illustrate that it's not about action/non-action, but it is also about degrees of involvement. People who often say "pull the lever" without hesitation, will suddenly hesitate when they are asked to push the man, despite the consequences being ultimately the same.

That does make me wonder, what would a robot do? I imagine it would use cold logic if forced to make a choice, and pull the lever killing only one person instead of allowing more to die.

this is a provocation
she could have just said "a man"

why would this be a provocation?

Hmm green one ends the cycle .. but then again ... being a hive mind of trolleys, the trolley god if you will, sounds pretty based.

I saw it as "obnoxious fat man", you can easily imagine some fat dude that acting all rude and disrespectful, like one certain fat dude in the game...

Yeah, after having watched someone play P1, I was expecting maybe the same kind of choice-sacrifice attachments with P2 as well. When I was playing it and realized the game was changed and the sacrifice wasn't the same I was really bummed out. The choices in P1 seem relatively easy, imo, but the choices in P2 are excruciating no matter what.
I wonder how that will work for the Bachelor. It seems like they intend to make a lot of changes between them since I wouldn't think superficial changes would be that difficult to make otherwise so maybe his and the Changlings will be completely different set.

That was, no joke, a question that people at Tesla and other autonomous driving cars were actually hiring philosophers and psychologists to figure out. Because a autonomous driving car may very well find itself in precisely this position.

But the truth is: it will do whatever we tell it to do.

4D.

apologies for the terrible snapshot of her eyes.
I think this line of dialogue is what gets people big time. P1 players see this and are like, "oh yeah! fuck this", and people who may be in on the game anyways may think the same.
great song, agreed.

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The answer is "protect the driver at all costs" btw, because who the fuck would buy a car that would prioritize others over your safety?

CAPITALISM, HO

I can't say I was bummed out, because I genuinely think this is more interesting than the original was, even if it is less "pleasing" our desire for schematic, and easier-to-understand world. It's far more challenging - which fits the generally more challenging tone of the whole game.
But yeah, it's sad. What did help me make my decision was the fact that by that point of the game, I already HATED the kin with a passion of a thousand suns.

But you knew that going in, You are there because you want to be, why would you leave because a character states the obvious?

As much as I felt (like just about everyone else) that her character was given much hastier development and lost a bit of appeal compared to P1, I have to say:
The way she handles the meta-narrative stuff this time is MUCH better than in the first game.

Which makes me think Will we ever meet our makers and people who executed it all in path2? Will it be in changeling storyline which i assume be released last (as to say thanks for playing)? Really makes me thingk

That is a train track, not a math problem, there HAS to be an end

it couldn't be any more appropriate for a trolley problem discussion to take place in this thread

truly the work of bos turokh

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I mean you do meet them a few times. They just don't acknowledge it as such. But Changeling explicitly says she was going to meet them and you ruined it in the Diurnal ending

Shit is this the actual question she meant?

This game was too kino for the normalfags to enjoy.

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That Bernard doesn't know means it's neither 5 nor 6. That leaves 4B the only possible pad for B. IF that letter known to Albert was B, he would've known it's 4B by now, yet he doesn't. Therefore it's not 4B. That leaves 4D as the only possible pad for number 6, lane B is entirely out of the picture, lanes 5 and 6 as well. Which leaves A-C-D-1-2-3 cluser and 4D. In the cluster every numbered track, has two possible pads. Track 4 contains one possible pad. Yet, Bernard, knowing number, now claims to know the pad precisely. Therefore, it's 4D, and now both Albert and listener know this as well (the last phrase in the problem is a throwaway and doesn't convey any information actually useful for its solution).

forcing someone to sacrifice themselves "fer dur peepole" sounds like communism the dumbfucks that are on a live track deserve to be on liveleak and in rekt threads

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>4D as the only possible pad for number 4

It's sadder than that:
This game was too kino for normalfags to even learn about.
And that shows more profound problem in the industry.

The main trick is realizing that the left half of the tracks is essentially a red herring, designed to make the problem appear more complex, than it actually is. From that viewpoint, the closing Albert's remark, which is non-informarive, in contrast with similar-looking Bernard's remark, which IS vital for solution of the problem, is a slight red herring as well.

Boys can take care of themselves. Girls are weaker and more of a target for bad people. This is why people want to protect girls more than boys.

oh I didn't choose that because I was too invested in the Dad simulator aspects lol, I'm just saying, I sympathize with those who did because of that part.
Yeah, that's a good way to put it, better in some ways, worse in others.
I saved everyone my second time and was really hoping there'd be something but... I was content with the little extra snippets of conversation at least lol.
for me it was the exact opposite. the worms kept helping me out and giving me stuff and the herb brides were chill and pleasant and the albinos just did there thing. It was agonizing not picking the nocturnal ending. this game made me sad so often...

on my 2nd run i accidentally came across her and was legit shocked for a minute

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There's no way to get original marble nest ye? Only on some torrents maybe?

it helps that videogame girls still aren't written realistically even in pathologic, because then no one would like them.

What house is this?

Damn shit's fucked up, i thought i could find her before/after that happened, but never got around to actually tryin to.

Real Talk: Pathologic 2 is the first time in recent memory I was more attracted to the adult women than the teenagers.

test

>saved everyone
Funny how letting people die pretty much gives you the same amount of conversations than getting them to live.
I saved everyone on first run because i just hit the motherload and got like 10 shmowders just in first few days, only got more later.

because usually western games don't make attractive women and jap almost only makes sexually attractive ones.

That is only because they made the adult females more attactive, and the young ones less, then they were in P1.
In P1, Kappela was always my fucking number 1 gal. In P2, Lara takes that place. But then again, they made Lara basically wear a school uniform.

on the outside of the um the townhall. the implication being she went herself to deliver the papers and they killed her and dumped her out there.
i know right, and you get a lot thought bubble too that's like "i found you..."
tears.
not murky cherishing her mother's doll alone in an abandoned train car tears but still.

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>I imagine it would use cold logic
It's literally what happens in I, Robot

I keep seeing people see this and marvel at their luck, lol
I ended up with just barely enough to cover it

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No, I'd be committing murder.

For me, it's preserving the Polyhedron because the world is only as real as the thoughts put into it so without the Polyhedron, there is no foundation for the fictional world to be real
But at the same time, we clearly aren't smart enough to use the Polyhedron yet or even build a perfect one so we gotta tear it down and leave space for the next generation to learn from our mistakes and also grow up and leave behind the mysticism of old

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Some more thoughts, this time on Algaya.

Most people disliked how she was treated in P2, and initially, so did I. But the more I think about it, the more I think it was better...

In P1, Algaya's meta-narrative knowledge always kinda bothered me. It is never explained, and not given much of a build-up. She just... KNOWS.

Now, in P2, there are several major changes. She is no longer "just" an administrator send out by the Powers-that-be as she was in P1, but rather: an almost supernatually gifted analyst - a genious of unrivalled properties.
And she also does not KNOW about the meta-narrative stuff: instead, she merely suspects it. That makes actual logic sense: the theory that she, and the whole town may be just a fiction, is a natural result of her insane deduction talent in action - if she really is as smart as the game paints her to be, she SHOULD arrive at that conclusion.
And suddenly, her seemingly out-of-nowhere decision to escape makes sense too:
It's a test of her theory. If she is right, she will never be able to leave the town. But in that case it does not matter, because she is not real anyway.
She wants to test her theory, and she wants YOU (who she apparently suspect to be the only thing close to being "real") to bare witness to that test.
One way or another, she will prove her point to you, and you can only benefit from that.
And suddenly, almost all that felt rushed and sudden, makes complete sense! I think.

Also, it now makes much more sense that she is "accidentally" also the cousin of Nina Kain. Nina was... also a woman of EXCEPTIONAL intellect and rationality, being the co-architect of Kains great Project. So it is not just a coincidence anymore.

Thoughts? Am I overanalyzing this stuff? I need your feedback, dammit!

Find who?

Well spoiler obviously Algaya, gets killed my military as she suspected but you have no idea where she is, i suspected you can find her somewhere and apparently yes you can find her body.

Makes sense to me Kowalski.

It's really hard to know when you're overanalyzing or not with stuff pathologic gives you.

Yeah the west seem to all just base them off of actors or celebrities. I find it disturbing. I feel like it undercuts the creativity and artistry of gaming.
It's funny Japan does that because you'd think the wabi sabi ideal would make them more Roman in their acceptance of flaws.
I like Eva a lot but how old Eva is is debatable. Certainly an adult though. But yeah Capella isn't cute in p2, I was very disappointed with her and Maria. Especially given the other sketches they had for them. I think given how a lot of players, myself included had a major increase in affection for her in p2, her design was obvious a step up. i didn't even notice the school uniform thing.

Bayarlaa, you are Yagarchin, we are Kin
You speak, we listen

>trolley
Isn't that like a shopping cart?

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According to old design documents, Eva is 20 years old
She looks a bit younger than that in 2

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Jesus, someone please give Murky a bath. She's disgusting

Artemy can hardly bathe himself. Do you really think he can figure out how to bathe someone else?

>pic
tf is that

Dunno man, looks like 20 to me, not that i saw a lot of women irl but she looks old enough

Not saying she looks like a kid but she's dangerously close to looking like a 16-year-old

Eva is clearly an adult in both games. She may be perhaps in her early twenties, but by the game's "logic" she sure as hell isn't a child anymore.
As a character in P2, she does puzzle me a lot, to be honest. I don't know what to make of her, even after finishing the game a second time. The decision not to make her suicide cannonical also really throws me off. Makes me really wonder what the hell are they planning for her in Bachellors route.
To me, she is a tease of an unresolved mystery for the next installments.

Capella is in general a lot less likable, and lot less pretty in P2, yeah. I can't say I'm disappointed, because being disappointed by a game not pandering to my fetish/slobbering over a teenager just feels wrong. I guess I felt like she was overal more mature?
I did REALLY dig her core dillema ("Am I an adult, or a child?" in P1. But I'm not sure if that dillema ever had any resolution, really.
In P2, it kinda feels they tried to make her more dynamic - give her more of an arch, display her solving that dillema (for better or worse). Which makes a lot of sense.
But at the same time, I feel like we should have actually seen that process, because in H's route, we only kinda see the resolution, not the setup or the transformation itself. This may be because they want to spread it between characters. Or maybe they run out of time. Hard to tell.

Anyway, it did feel imperfect, but not lazy.

I think ultimately, my ONLY dissapointment in the game lies in the conclusion. Bloch suddenly disappearing and reappearing without explanation, the boring walk-quest with the couriers, and the fact that the game does not require your adherents to be alive to get the diurnal ending.
That... was really the only thing that disappointed me.

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Oh boy, you have not... seen that yet?

I found this on the steam artwork page for P1. I feel more people should see this.

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Nah, I don't think you can over-analyze something as meta as Pathologic. It demands analysis. Yeah I agree with all that. It makes perfect sense.
To elaborate on your thoughts, I was thinking of the characters as symbolized by something, right.
So Aglaya to me is basically an in-game angel. the Bachelor hints at this when he talks to you in Yulia's house. She is a representative of the Power's That Be and gifted with seemingly supernatural gifts (able to deduce the exact dead in the abatoir ridiculously fast and the nature of the universe, as you mentioned). She is represented by the one place you can basically ever interact with her, the Cathedral. You ask her at some point where her guard is, she says she has a mighty guard ever present, you just can't see it. It's the Cathedral because she's an angel on a mission from God, thus God. The Cathedral doesn't work right though, you don't worship God, there, you challenge God. That's what Aglaya ends up doing, she's basically a fallen angel who is challenging the Power's That Be's ability to railroad her existence.
But then she dies, yes? well what happened to her guard? she left the Cathedral. She finally makes the actual break from God either with you on the traintrack or by acting herself at the townhall and loses their protection.

She is clearly an adult with a serious case of baby face.

eh?

Actually haven't seen the dude until Abatour and stuff, is he anywhere before that?

Then we are in agreement

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That is a very interesting take. I would have not thought of her this way. I like it.

But if it reaches a point of sapience where it can care about someone, does it pick that someone over a group. The original question is pick between one stranger and 4 strangers, but what if you have to pick between one child and 4 adults, on friend and 4 strangers, your child and 4 kids. I get that the point is, there is no good choice, it's all bad, so you have to choose what you think is less horrible, you directly killing someone, or you refusing to kill someone and costing 3-4 others their life due to your refusal to kill.

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? they are adding it as DLC to pathologic 2, it's free if you've bought the game.. you have bought the game, haven't you, user?

nice, thanks brug. adding it to my patho memes collection

Chase away the twin or tell Burakh where it is for panacea?

You must have not played Pathologic 1 or 2, or you are very early into Pathologic 2, right?

It's not the original one though, it's a remake of a demo, yes that sounds dum but that's what it is. I don't know how much they changing so i wanted to compare.

Why is it that the ending that keeps the polyhedron, also empowers the kin?

I don't understand it fully from an actual mechanical standpoint but I'm talking mostly about how it seems backwards thematically.

Holy shit that actually makes a lot of sense. I hope they reveal something like that in the other playthroughs.

"Sapience" is most likely just a huge bunch of evolutionary conditioned heuristics that were selected out by evolutionary pressure. For the car to reach it, it would have to have the process of either actual, or at least simulated evolution (which is what we do today to create A.I. anyway). The reactions would then be just reflections of what the real/simulated evolution has selected for.

Time to measure some hysteresis curves, I guess.

cringe

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>Try to pull the lever
>Trolley derails self and runs you over

they said it's the exact same just updated to run in current engine not some pre-alpha build, what the fuck are you talking about?

There should be a link to the torrent or mega up somewhere. I have it saved on my other computer, so if worst comes to worst, I could reup it somewhere in the next week or so. Try to do some digging around, and if you really want, try to ask in IPL threads in upcoming days - I tend to be in most of them, so I might have it uploaded for you by then.

oh, no, yeah i wasn't disappointed in Capella's design like in a sexual way, i meant more like they clearly made a drastic change to her more being an older, dynamic teenager favoring Vlad a good bit instead of a small mousy girl who had immense influence and maturity nonetheless. Her photo in P1 had an air of mystical nobility to it whereas in P2 she looks kind of like a Neverland Lost girl. I agree, games shouldn't pander to fetishes.

I found Eva's endgame conversation pretty interesting. They seem to have made her more special than she was in P1. More like a gifted flighty girl who has special insight instead of the more pansexual scared creature of comfort she was in P1. Her possible or maybe not possible suicide in the Bachelor's playthrough I have a feeling will be a big deal.

I figured it as It's not that polyhedron is the reason, is that the "magical stuff" exists because the Earth itself is alive, and while it's wounded from polyhedron and sent "antibodies" to "the wound" (plague to town) removing it would cause it to literally bleed out, giving you blood for panacea, but town becomes just regular ass backwards town without any mystical stuff in it.

Just like remake was supposed to be "just visual upgrade with better engine".

Well, in P1, Eve was kind of a big deal. She just happened not to be ENOUGH of a big deal to compare to Maria or Capella, which is what drove her to suicide in the first place.

Maria is another strange change I still don't quite get, by the way. In the original, she was annoying the hell out of me, but she was not a cruel bitch. At least not untill she surrended her body to Nina.
Meanwhile, in P2, she is a bitch like Nina from the start, and really rather fucking dim and insane. So I fucking wonder what did they have in store for her.

reminder for when you let the trolley hit the people on the tracks

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>tfw Pathologic threads and trolley threads are becoming one and the same

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To be fair, we've only met Maria through the eyes and body of Haruspex so far. She might be singing a different tune when we're Bachelor

Why are there so many cute girls?

Oh I didn't know Eva was supposed to be a big deal in P1 or that that was the reason for her actions. Totally missed that. Yet another thing I've learned from the Pathologic threads amongst the many other things.

Yeah she's very enigmatic. I found her talking to houses rather charming, being a bit of an animist myself, but her dialogue was definitely more arrogant and snooty than I expected, in stark contrast to Victor who is basedaf.
Her interactions with the Bachelor are going to be very interesting, that's for sure. Since they aged the Bachelor up visually a lot I wonder if they'll keep the dynamic.

>if you dont pull that lever it means you secretly want to fuck your mother

Because you want to protect them

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Simulation of real-life Russia

lol, I always feel bad for the regular guys. Such shitty jobs. I keep expecting to turn around and see one standing in my doorway tho...

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I doubt they will be making any bigger changes to the Marble nest though. Maybe just actually make the doors work, replace that weird combat scene with proper combat that was in the finished game, and change the interior of the infected house to match the ones in P2.

That said, in one of the previous threads, someone made a very, very strange comment.

He said:
"No joke here they are actually doing Dora's route next."
Now, I would usually not pay attention to random claims like that, except A)
I've seen precisely these kinds of random sudden claims, with no follow-up or explanation, succesfully predict EVERYTHING about P2, including the decision to release only Haruspex for now MONTHS before the decission was officially announced, and B) this sounds so fucking surreal, absurd and out of left field that it's something only IPL could ever fucking come up with to begin with.

So I'm really, REALLY fucking suspecting, that next up is not our beloved Daniil Dankovsky, but fucking. Dora. Feugel.

since we were just talking about attraction to teenagers, I can't recall ever coming across a character quite like Anna in a video game. Aside from her obvious heinous past, she seems to hint at some less than common fetishes

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Dora? who? The fucking explorer?

Play the changeling's route in 1 and you'll get to know some more about Anna

Yeah, Eve had the same powers as Maria and Capella had in the original game. She predicted a whole bunch of shit, including the outbreak in it's full severity, long before anyone else even fucking knew what was going on, which is why she originally attempted to escape the town.
Her big thing is jealousy. She had a bit of the Rubin thing going on - having everything it takes to be a mistress, but being disallowed because of not being from the RIGHT bloodline? Instead of that everyone treated her like some kind of ditzy airhead with no role in anything. She envied Maria something fierce:
They both had the powers, but Maria was obviously the one to be the next mistress.
They both loved the Stamatins, but Maria was obviously the one they ultimately cared more about.
And they both became rather fond of Daniil, but again: Maria was the one that had him ultimately wrapped around her finger.

This sense of impotence and unfairness seems to be what drove her to her one last ditch attempt to actually became relevant, prove that "she can make as much miracles as Maria can". Thus the suicide: attempt to revive the Cathedral. It did not work well.
Her jealousy is particularly obvious when you meet her spirit on day 12 as Bachellor. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT even utter the word "Maria" in front of her then.

who the fuck is Dora?

>beloved Daniil Dankovsky
>beloved

get a load of this oynon

>Dora? who? The fucking explorer?
Dora Feugel, one of the characters from Marble Nest. If you haven't played MN, you would not know her, I don't think she ever makes a proper appearance in P2. Maybe she does, as one of the very few "generic townspeople" with a name - I THINK she once brings you a message, or you find her as part of a mob outside the theatre or cathedral or something.

If an infinite number of people are alive already, individual life has no value and therfore either choice is acceptable as no portion of the total number of humans can be lost

Dank-ovsky is clearly best one

>meet her spirit
How? Am I retarded?

See

why would they make one of the paths a literal who when they've already said they were making artemy/daniil/clara

>fat man
There doesn't need to be any children in danger. Just push the fat man in front of the trolley. You'd be doing him and the rest of the world a favor.

I played MN it's just so long ago i don't remember, i actuallly don't remember anyone in MN having a "unique" character model so who the hell is Dora and why would they make her storyline? Unless it's one of those "we wanted make Algaya and Block short scenarios" type of thing.

On day 12, she is at the very top of the cathedral during the last hearing. Take the spiral staircase all the way up before you conclude the final hearing. You will find a ledge just beneath the celling of the building (it's where she jumped from). She'll be there. At least I think if you save all adherents, I'm not sure what the exact conditions are to meet her. You can talk to her, but if you ever select any option that contains the word "Maria", she will get absolutely furious and just end the conversation right there.

Interesting
I saw her attempt at giving her soul to the Cathedral to bring it to life as actually ending up halfway successful since she'd implant the memory of her permanently in Dankovsky at least. "The last way to help" or however she phrased it and all that. It adds up with the way the Kains keep their deceased alive through the memory of them which granted also has supernatural elements but if someone you know commits suicide, they're gonna be in your memory and heart forever
I fully admit that my interpretation leans on my own personal experiences but still

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Because they are IPL? They are crazy, you know.

She is the dead female in the opening dream sequence, that will later on come to life and tell you... something.
Later on, you'll find she is the one of the only two people who remain in the Cathedral after you open it. She and an asshole named Marat. You can take them both to your home, check them up, and they will both basically offer to stay around and help. It's suggested (in the dream) that they both are kinda working for Daniil in one of the many possible realities?

Anyway, that is Dora.
As to why her? Well, speculation time, but since in MN she is implied to be Daniils helping hand, maybe it could be some kind of intermission - tie-us-over-before-Daniil-can-be-finished deal, perhaps a short campaign to raise more funds and time for the Daniil campaign proper? It WOULD explain why they suddenly invest in re-releasing Marble's Nest. To introduce her to those who missed it, so that her reveal isn't that fucking surprising.

counting from the top or the bottom?

hello Yea Forums, Nikolay here. I feel it is necessary to dispel rumours to not get everyone onto a slippery track. It is true the next route will feature a new protagonist, however there is no plan to make a Dora route. After The Marble's Nest releases we are planning to release a short 3-day side route where you can play as a BULL.

We still plan on supporting the game and including the bachelor and changeling routes as promised to Kickstarter backers, so there is no need to worry.

-Hикoлaй Дыбoвcкий

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Will there be a Lara NTR side mission where I can satiate her thirst with salty and thick tan (straight from the bull)?

Дa

I don't know what is real anymore

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All joking aside, in FACT, I'm going to expand on this speculation:

The next route will indeed feature new character - most likely Dora - it will indeed be shorter than the proper ones, and it will be significantly simplified.
It will be easy, more linear, much more akin to a proper walking sim.
That way, the devs will appease the god damn journalist who all without fail stated that they would want all the story stuff without the gameplay faf. The goal being to both get Pathologic 2 into the headlines again, and this time, in more favorable light, and to get people involved and invested in the settings and the story without scaring them away by the hard gameplay: So that by the time Daniil hits the shelves, Pathologic will already be a positively established brand, and they won't have to worry about being completely obscured like it happened with P2's release.

I'm going to screencap this, and if turns out true, I'm going to forever rub it in the noses of everyone ever posting in an IPL thread.

Be khara. Bull is real, just 200 coins. I'll bring it to your house khantanger.

I'm really glad there's something else for her. While watching people play the Bachelor's P1 route, I was really frustrated they didn't care at all about her. They missed that too. I was always under the impression Clara was messing with her. Eva deserves better ;___;

She is a selfish brat in my opinion. I lost any respect for her when she fucking overslept on that escape mission, and her suicide was driven by selfish desire to be a martyr and one-up that mean old Maria, nothing else.

You are fool, Khatange, I would have bought it for 300

eva is a fucking thot roastie

town-on-gorkhon? more like town-on-eva

>on my 2nd run i accidentally came across her and was legit shocked for a minute
Did you notice that when you cut her open, she has no organs inside of her? Just like the Burakh actor you find in the broken heart.

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Loaded weapons for loaded questions

I went out of my way to keep her alive as Haruspex but I'm also a big softie

these heartless khoolbons
my guy

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"marble nest mega" on the archives, 15 seconds tops.
>mega.nz/#!e4QTSbAb!10Qwwq1b4p6M-lDBMmNV0e1sqGP4IZANGQ3QfxOELf8

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I expect to have fully animated and realistic bull sex scene.

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I still don't get what the fuck bull supposed to be, it disappears for a while the same time Clara does, does it mean i bought clara for 200 shekels?

No! I didn't even know you could kill him. I wonder if that means characters with no organs are from outside the in game universe.

clara was the BVLL all along

In P2 she's the one who handles the baby deliveries at town hall, and who wants to find a new home for Grace.

The trader will bring the bull to you once you reclaim your hideout.
He will then occasionally appear hanging around the hideout, usually disappearing when the area around is infected, only to appear again few days later.

It annoyed me greatly that you can't kill it and attempt to make panacea from it's blood.

vagina hood

Technically they are in-game but they're not following the script to the letter. They're not fully in character so they aren't real people inside the fiction. You in the role of Artemy potentially don't follow the script to the letter either and you may act with meta-knowledge that you don't actually have so you're in the same category as them. You're a player in the game and not just a character.

Oh fuck me, you are right! I knew she was in there... somewhere.

>It annoyed me greatly that
you are a fucking monster, yargachin

So... did anyone try out what happens when the Cancer-bull grows to full size? If it really even can happen?

I mean yea i saw all that, and at day 11 it tells you "Don't kill us mmmkay", i wanted to kill it too, but for meat, hehe.

You could say they are actors, while everyone else are just puppets.

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Come the fuck on. It's an absolutely logical conclusion. Worth trying for fuck sake.

This, and the fact that babies can't get infected being treated as absolutely no big deal, instead of everyone going OH FUCKING GOD BABIES ARE IMMUNE!!! THAT IS OUR FUCKING KEY, THAT IS THE BIGGEST FUCKING LEAD IN THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME! SCREW THE FUCKING COWS, DO TESTS ON THE FUCKING BABIES!

Yes.

I remember a quick flash in Mandalore's video there was a building with a bull's face with fire coming out of the orifices. Since I never found that building, I suspected maybe it had something to do with it

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Danny Boy had the same idea, but the kin kept stealing the bulls he bought to use for testing

Well, to be honest, having the game obtaining the Living Blood from those babies you find in abandoned houses would be a little too hardcore even for IPL.

Babies are not immune, they just said that "babies are more likely to survive, but really it's to keep the morale up".

I think that's a theathre and that was a tragician's mask. If we talking about the same moment

Actually i said it wrong, it's not that they are likely to survive the plague, it's less likely they get it in the first place, you can pretend it's plague sparing babies.

>a little too hardcore even for IPL
Incidentally, the children in the street can be killed.
Don't ask me how I know.

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the first time I went for the saving baby mission, I didn't realize that it only lets you so long asAnnaisn't infected so I was running all over the right house looking for this baby while a stream of infected kept fumbling towards me and I didn't know what to do and just kept pushing at them and it was a nightmare lol.

Well, yeah, but that is my fucking point. If they are extremely unlikely to be infected, then there is SOMETHING about them that resists the infection, otherwise NOBODY would risk accepting them being brought out from the infected districts.
Which means there is a major lead there. Is it their immunity system? Is it that they are likely breastfed still? Maybe there are antibodies against the infection in mothers milk!

Instead the game just excepts us to hand-wave it, because otherwise the game could not have cool weird shenanningans with Anna.
In a game that put so much effort into making shit make sense, this is such an obvious oversight.
This, and the inability to test your bulls blood are the only two cases in the game where the logic really falls apart. It's a small, trivial, tiny issue compared to everything else that is amazing, but it still rubs me off the wrong way.

This has been exceptionally enjoyable but I have to sleep sometime. Hope to see you all in the next one of these, goodnight!

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Maybe they don't get sick because the disease is trying to clean out the things straining Mother Boddho? The babies have yet to dream of Utopia or pollute the Earth so they don't get targeted

>realitically
Retard, it's not about a real scenario, it's about the moral philosophy of it. There are NO OTHER CHOICES in this scenario you blithering fool.

that was me. if it ended up being true i would have an aneurysm. i also made a post saying the next route was sticky's. which would actually be cool.

Would you suck an obnoxious incel's dick to stop him from killing four innocent women?

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If I was an African refugee I'd push anybody in front of a train for any reason.

Good night.

Frankly, so would I. But the scary thing about it is that it really makes a lot of sense. For starters, it would explain why the fuck are they remaking Marble's Nest, because otherwise, it makes ZERO sense what so ever.
Then again, making sense does not mean that it is true.

>But the truth is: it will do whatever we tell it to do.
Which is exactly why that question is so important. The people programming it have to know what it should do in order to program it to behave that way

Which is why they actually did reach out to many philosophers and other experts to ask what they thing should be the correct answer.
But as somebody else had reminded us, the ultimate answer is "do whatever you can to protect the driver, everything else is secondary", because it's kinda hard to sell people a machine that may actually chose to kill them.

Fuck that bitch

That may well be all true and big city Dandy, but nobody in the town could realistically know that! People should be still freaking out about it. Daniils lab should be filled with stacks of dead babies by day six anyway.

they've already tried their best to not make us feel like a videogame protagonist, taking a step even further back and making us some npc seems like an interesting move they could do. dora works because people know who she is while also seeing her as a throwaway nobody, and she's slightly relevant to things going on.

anna angel was already on it

Yeah, everything about that theory adds up. Except one thing: If you (or the other guy posting) seriously posted the "next route is Dora" as a joke, it's a huge pile of speculation over nothing.
But maybe we should send this thread to IPL. Maybe we can MAKE it true! (probably not).

Nice to see Pathologic 2 thread live all the way to 400 posts, and not being just people throwing memes at each other.
I still wonder if these threads ever actually made anyone not familiar with the game interested in it.

My point was that babies are not really immune or resistant, it's more of telling panicking people that "at least kids will survive"

What goes on the rails?

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french people and american media

Aglaya's fleeting is a spin on Eva's 2nd day quest from P1, Bachelor's storyline.

>if she really is as smart as the game paints her to be, she SHOULD arrive at that conclusion
On what basis, for one? Those sensibilities are taken from P1's Yulia, for two.

She is saying be your own man, use your free will

they made me play it not long after release. pirated and got to day 3 then decided i loved it, bought it, played through it 3 times. now i'm on classic hd.

bull on one track
3 tragedians on the other

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I mean pathologic related, dummy.

Polyhedron and multiple kids of course.

Guess who was an in-game angel in P1. Eva. The one that got demoted to that schizo holy fool in P2.

The top.

I guess that works. I was thinking polyhedron and abbatoir, since those are the choices for the normal ending in classic, but I can't find an image of the abbatoir that doesn't look like ass.

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Her suiciding is a parallel to the main message of P1: the only thing cobbling bits of content comprising a videogame called "Pathologic" into any sort of coherent virtual world existing in some form or other in your head, is your own wishful thinking, evidenced in your willful suspension of disbelief. You bridge in the game with your own assumptions - read fantasies - based on your personal past.

I do realize there is a relation between the two events, though I think the core themes are ultimately very different.

>On what basis, for one?
Well, it is kinda difficult to imagine how she sees the world, given that out perspective is already entirely predicated on us being the only non-NPC being in the game. But she figures out the source of the outbreak too. The way that the time behaves in the town, the fact that the story still requires and involves a lot of coincidences unlikely to happen outside of fabricated reality, maybe from the way other characters talk, and interact. She does seem to have you figured out based on that initial interview.

That, in this entire thread, is the first speculation that does not really make any sense what so ever.

I love how a lot of the game depends on your own personal interpretation of concrete evidence. Mutually exclusive truths and all that

>bridge the gaps
Also, the parallel is in that Eva's suicide was meant to infuse sort of life into a dead conglomeration of stones, called "Cathedral", much like player wastes time and thunking effort to arrive at plausible enough picturr of what Pathologic as a whole is, that time one isn't getting back.
The further development of that theme is Tension's Nameless Sister (that game's counterpart of Eva) talking about player leaving colored world behind him as a result of his passage through it. Note that in Tension - an opposed to Void - you could only fill a tree ONCE, no refills. Whatever color you infused back then, stayed for good.

Eva is cosplaying Captain Obvious exactly the same way when she sends you to test limits of the game (getaway quest), or when she does NOT suicide in Haruspex' storyline, and just blatantly stands there till the end of the game without any plot purpose, evidencing that the routes are indeed irrevocably contradictory.

No, none of that makes sense. The two quests don't mirror each other nearly as much as you seem to think.
In P2, a character explicitly stating that she suspects all the metanarrative stuff, announces that she is going to test her theory, and then you two try to escape, only to be stopped by an external force.

In P1, the character has NO inclination to know anything about the metanarrative - only the same vague premonition that half a dozen other women in the town has, considers leaving the town, but ultimately decides against it, instead of deciding to die a martyr's death instead.

There is really not much parallel in here. In fact considering the train a test of the game's meta-narrative boundaries is something that ONLY makes sense IF you played P2.

In this situation you are a person with absolute knowledge of this train, and you know that this train WILL be stopped by the fat man.

She has no inclination to know about the metanarrative because it is a blatant self-insert by one the developers, playing along and faceplanting you into points of interest along the way.

AGLAYA FUCKING DIES EVEN IF YOU CHOSE TO RUN WITH HER ITS UNFAIR I WANTED TO MARRY AN INQUISITOR MOMMY GF

Stick to the script, actor.

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>She has no inclination to know about the metanarrative because it is a blatant self-insert by one the developers
What the fuck? No? There is no fucking evidence to this?
The children, Mark and the Actors: sure. Eve? NOPE. There is absolutely nothing suggesting that. Are you implying that one of the developers was also pathologically jealous of fucking Maria?

Also: none of this feeds in ANY way to what you have been claiming further, about the game only existing in your head or what not - which frankly feels like someone has been driking too much Turgor-juice and then trying to force it whereve he can, regardless of the actual content of the story.

when does he say this?

Trick question, five migrants only amount to half a life.

Mark is a parallel to 12th day talons in the theater. Children are one step beneath talons, talons are one step beneath Eva.
>There is absolutely nothing suggesting that. Are you implying that one of the developers was also pathologically jealous of fucking Maria?
I don't remember exact words with which she voiced her displeasure with Maria, but that Maria was not a good person in relation to Bachelor is flat out spelled out in her (or maybe Nina's, but Maria new about her Nina transmigration beforehand regardless) diatribe in Haruspex' storyline, after the decision in the Cathedral.
What you don't understand is that there is such a thing as rationalization. You do stuff first, you invent fake reason postfactum. Eva's primary function in P1 is faceplanting you into important things. The reasons for which her CHARACTER WOULD PLAUSIBLY WANT to do that are afterthoughts.Hence her mark trait of airheadedness/irrationality.

Eva, in some sense ALREADY KNOWS all that P2's Aglaya THINKS she knows - and definitely more than P1's Aglaya knows (since P1's Aglaya, from what I remember, peaks at children's level). She is only a half-character. Half-developer's-commentary.

and here, when he says it, or am i missing something haha more memes from him please

In other words, from a hypothetical standpoint of P1's ingame characters, P1's Eva thus could be conceptualized as an angel in relation to P1's surface-level setting, cosplaying such a character in that setting.

>Children are one step beneath talons, talons are one step beneath Eva.
I'm sorry to be abrasive in a usually polite IPL thread, but which asshole have you pulled that shit from?

>I don't remember exact words with which she voiced her displeasure with Maria
I can remind you: She literally says: "How dare you mention that name in front of me!" and then she cuts the conversation.

>What you don't understand is that there is such a thing as rationalization. You do stuff first, you invent fake reason postfactum.
No, I understand this, this is incredibly fucking trivial. What I don't understand is where the fuck do you derive the assumption that any of this is in ANY way related to anything that happens in Pathologic. Any dialogue suggesting the game deals with such trite shit as a theme.
Also, you still have not stated in any way where any of your speculations come from? WHERE IS ANY EVIDENCE FOR EVE TO BE A DEVELOPER SELF-INSERT?!
It's not difficult question. Everyone can explain why that is true of Children and the Theatre troupe. Because of dialogues they have. Children claiming to authors of your entire story, Troupe openly saying that Children are wrong, and that no character in the town can claim any agency what so ever.

Fucking give me anything I could work with here! None of what you said has any reference to concrete elements of the game.

>talons are one step beneath Eva
Or rather they are same level, but sort of opponents. Eva ultimately conveys constructive point, that can as well be inferred from the game as a whole - while talons don't.

What do you call such a man?

Tension. I base my conclusions on Tension, and on knowing some things about the development of both games. Have you played Tension? Then we have what to talk about. Have you not? Then go play Tension.

So... you base that on... you are that weird fucking faggot that plagues every single thread eventually - the one with bizzare vendeta for Dybowsky.
Wow.
Well, since I already broke my promise never to waste any more time on you: I can at least clear my conscience and tell you this:

Every single judgement you made about these games was based around not what is in there, but rather about what ISN'T there.
Like in this case you are raving about absolute nonsense, pretending there are some "hierarchies" that are not mentioned or even HINTED anywhere in the game, and your evidnece for that is...
Entirely different game from few years later. Not even that, but actually only ONE element of that game, the sole element of it that was so fucking trivial the studio itself decided to remove it.

You are beyond delusional. You literally cannot make a single claim based on positive evidence. Literally everything is based on LACK OF SOMETHING.

You might be delusional to a worrisomely clinical degree.

Schizo, you call them schizo

1 cause fat people are not people.

Onion. You call him onion.

I have to run to chatch a train, but if this thread is still somehow up in an hour or so, I can get back and explain to you, in great detail, what EXACTLY is wrong with your analysis, and by extension, what is most likely wrong with you.

What the heck..

There should be more fatshaming, to be honest. Maybe these fatsos would actually do something about it if people weren't enabling their behaviour.

Would be better if you encoruaged them to get help then last fucking thing you do is fat shame.

Please dont you insane fuck. Spare us.

It's god's will for the children to die. I will not intervene.

ultimately its not my responsibility to care for the entire world
I will tell him once that he is a fat fuck, after that i am just going to call him a fat fuck

How scary is this game? Is it a legitimate horror game or is it a creepy adventure game?

Alright cool bro

>"WOULD YOU MURDER SOMEONE?"

You have to be extremely mentally ill to push someone to their death. I'm not intervening the Grim Reaper.

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I won't point you to where exactly, but you have actually uttered something way smarter than I have expected you to, regardless of whether in your own words, or by means of quoting someone. I need to think on that.

Fat fucks worsen the gene pool so obviously the fat fuck must be sacrificed for the greater good.

the issue is that the normies that WOULD enjoy it, didn't, because the game is legitimately quite difficult and people don't like it when they feel like they're losing.

Yes, please, do elaborate, so I can happily go back to thinking you a dumbfuck not having a clue what you are talking about.

the game is creepy but never truly 'Scary'

It's a game that requires you to use your brain and think as well as not being allergic to failure

depends on if he is a nigger or not

Cringe

You aren't forcing someone to sacrifice themselves, you are outright murdering them because their death will save 4 kids.

OH IT'S YOU

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Why are you implying anyone looked pretty in classic? How is 2's Capella worse then Classics?

There are no jumpscares for one.

Its a piece of art

bump

>How do you know it will stop the train?
I push fat man anyway, even if there's no people to save. I just really hate fat people

Has nothing to do with social justice, incel. The point is, the fat guy dying is less bad objectively as he is only one guy; but it would mean you taking an action to kill someone, as opposed to passively letting it happen.

It’s the same as the logic behind anti-immunisation cucks. If their kid dies of measles that would suck, but the kid being negatively affected by the vaccine would in some ways feel worse to the parent since it’s the result of something the parents deliberately did to the kid.

Wow, the thread IS still up. You guys are kinda amazing.

Tough luck. I've been raving my theories this whole thread and you folks seemed to like them, I'm not going to stop now.

Look at the photos, not the models. She was cuter. She was also a lot more kind and did not fuck up as badly as she did in P2. Not that I'm complaining: it's a good character development at the end.

OK, this will probably take more than one post. I'll try to be as brief as possible.

So let's go right to the crux of the matter: Tension, and your interpretation of it. I'm going to lay out what I learned from you in the previous threads.

So: You really, really liked Turgor. But what is already telling, you liked because of something the game LACKED, rather than something it contained: That is clarity.
The experience you had - just most of us who played it, is one of a narrative NOISE. Huge amount of small, out-of-context bits of exposition, completely overloading the player. Every sister has her story, or not not even story, just countless fragments of what may or may not really be stories. All of that exposition, mixed with the voices of the colors, brothers and The Void itself: most of it not connecting, frequently even directly contradicting itself.
Eventually, you (and most of us) arrived at the only conclusion other than the game is bullshit:
That is the game is not SUPPOSED to make sense, provide us with a tangible meaning or theme, but rather - it encourages us to freely build one for ourselves.
We are not the audice, we are - so to speak - supposed to become the new authors: freely mixing our own experience, picking and discarding the pieces of narrative as we see fit, giving the whole experience meaning ourselves.

Am I right, so far? Because so far, so good, no issue there, I think.
(I'm not going to wait for answer...)

Day 3, after the bell rings. If you speak to him in town hall he'll ask you about that. Might need to not visit him beforehand, at least I didn't

So - this whole idea, the idea that you create the story, you give meaning, is not exactly new. In fact, it is the staple of postmodern philosophy. There are many terms for this concept - I like "radical reader-oriented interpretation", others also call it the Semiiotic Turn, the Turn to Reader, or the Turn to Subject. It's what Barthes really says when he announces The Death of Author, it's what Rorty REALLY means when he says "the only thing we can ever agree on is that we disagree", it's the SOLE coherent thought in Derrida's disgusting, fraudulent ravings...

And: It's shit.
It's actually really, really trite. Appealing, sure, but absolutely trivial. Postmodernism obsessed about it for decades, simply because they did not want to admit that is a waste of time.
It gives you a fake sense of self-importance:
"Oh: I AM THE ONE THAT MATTERS! I AM THE ONE CREATING MEANING! I AM LIKE A GOD!"
But that is all. That is literally all you can ever fucking get out of it. And that is because, in reality, it's an ancient philosophical JOKE - a reaccuring thought experiment used to mock philosohical dead-ends, a doctrine that you will most likely know as Solipsism.

And I'm going to paraphrase Borges, because he is relevant in more ways than one (he is ABSOLUTELY central to the conception of the idea of Pathologic. So integral that when asked for list of influences on the game, Dybowsky opted to not mention him by name, but by a literary in-joke instead):

"Berkley's arguments (for solipsism) do not allow for the slightest rebuttal, and have absolutely no convincing value what so ever."

Berkley wasn't even a solipsist himself. Like every other author talking about, he used it as an example of absurd, dead-end abuse of philosophy.

So: back to your interpretation of Turgor: you discovered, like others, this rather trite idea, an interpretative solipsim, can be assumed.
And that would be still fine - we all did - except you took it seriously. WAY too seriously.

Does the fat man share the same mass as five people? Would it count as a quintuple homicide?

>All of that exposition, mixed with the voices of the colors, brothers and The Void itself: most of it not connecting, frequently even directly contradicting itself.
This doesn't account for the presence of the observer, who has his own side of the story, derived from one's own playing experience and formulated into fitting enough words - represented in the game as the voiceless main character.

Already refuted: the verbal content of Tension doesn't comprise the ENTIRETY of the content you base your personal conclusions on.

In other words, Tension is not a book.
I am sorry, were you talking about _literary_ postmodernism here?

Aw.

How unfortunate.

What is even worse, you simply stopped any analysis any further. Self-satisfied with the masturbatory "it was all about me" thought, you just did not look any further.
Except there was more to Turgor than lack of clarity. It was obfuscated to a point of being almost indiscernable, but it was there. We know it, because The Void came out, as the definitive version of the game, and made things far more clear.

The Void had strong, far less pretentious, and far more relevant themes and motives. One of existential dread, and transcendence. And these were ALWAYS there - back when it was Turgor - they were just hard to make out over all the expository noise.
They were written in the CORE MECHANICS of the game - as well as literally spelled out in the very opening poem, the one that was same in both of the games - verses of Luís de Camões, poet who anticipated Kierkergaards argument for Faith being seen as an answer to existential dread - as a dream of transcendece.
Not to mention these themes directly resonate with many themes of Pathologic - and even Cargo, if you could believe it.

Anyway: you ignored all of it. You - AGAIN - judged The Void on what WASN'T THERE, rather than looking at what IS.
You saw absense of the validation of your self-indulgent reader-oriented interpretation, and got mad. Personally - hence your fucking weird vendetta against Dybowsky, your delusions about how OTHER people were the ones that REALLY GOT IT, but Dybowski destroyed their hard work.

Everything else... follows this. I asked you to give me positive evidence for ANY of your claims about Eve in P1, and you answered: Turgor.
Previously I asked your for any evidence of anything else you said, and you always said: Turgor. The ABSENCE of something in Turgor.

See where I am going with all of these rants (other than massively indulging myself, for which I have no appology)?

You still stick to the sole thing in the history of IPL that just made you feel important.

There.
I'm done. If this does not make you realize what a sad, sorry shit you are, NOTHING EVER WILL, and you are beyond any help other than clinical psychiatry.

>tfw like the game but too brainlet to even attempt to discuss the themes of the game

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>This doesn't account for the presence of the observer
Literally answered in the same post few lines down.
>Aw.
>How unfortunate.
So I guess you are beyond any help. Well, I don't mind: I got it out of my system. I was bugging me for a very long time - and I needed to clear my conscience.

I wrote all of this (aside from it being rather fun), so that you can NEVER EVER IN YOUR LIFE pretend that you were never made aware to your own bullshit.

From now on, it's all purely on your own conscience. And if this does nothing with you, I can be be completely, 100% justified to call you a lost cause, an a irredeemable piece of shit.

I'm going to stick around for a while, but more or less, I think I'm satisfyingly done with you.

Is Philippa Foot canon in the world of Pathologic 2?

No you are not.
If you are not delusional like this guy, you are never "too much of a brainlet." Just share whatever comes into your mind.

The ending of this thread went autistic and mental, but we are not usually like this. Sorry if it put you off the discussion. I think I really got it all out of me and I can be a normal being again.
Most of the other people around always were normal. Most.

1) Nameless Sister is opposed to all the other sisters in the game in that she coerces you to exit yourself, while others entice you to lead THEM out INSTEAD.
2) I, as a Tension player, interpret this as: building your worldview from experience, as opposed to embracing an existing ideology.
3) Nameless Sister thus represents ideology "Build your worldview instead of embracing others' say-so-s".
4) Thus if you opt to resurrect her and lead her out instead of you, this amounts to cosplaying someone living one's own life - instead of living one's own life authentically.
5) Thus the option to have double exit: both for the Sister and for You. Literally, I have UNDERSTOOD you. Not BELIEVED you. UNDERSTOOD you. Connected what you say to my past experiences - thus voluntarily interpreting your words my personal way.
6) Leaving with Nameless Sister literally is "I have played this game and I think I fully understood its point regardless with whether I have any nitpicks with the way it was formulated".

Don't be afraid to try. No one will judge you. The game desperately needs more exposure, so people here don't care about elitism and gatekeeping. Discussion is always welcome

Nah, I've been in these threads before, usually posting screenshots of dialogue and such, but I feel when it comes to that kind of discussion it goes over my head a bit.

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That's because it's a slav game.

See You are literally just repeating what I said, buddy. I know you really want that shallow self-masturbatory intepretation to be true, because it makes you feel like you matter. We have been through all of this: you know this, you admitted that before, so nobody cares anymore in HOW you do your mental gymnastics.
The fact that you can't see past it - the fact that you still assume that people are interested in your reasoning all together just confirms how utterly, completely narcisistic you are, and how you twist the entire reality - for outside of the game, I should add - to just serve your own self-validation and self-agrandisment.

I've already told you why that is wrong, and continued beyond it. If you can't react to that, then there really is no help for you outside aformentioned drastic psychiatric means.

Are you implying that slavs aren't fucking second to Japs in terms of female youth worship? Because I'm slav and I take an issue with that implication.

Have you seen how most slav women look past 30?

The act is over, actors. See you at the next performance

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I'm saying it's not western so the women don't all look like shit.

See ya, and once again, sorry for the autistic ending. Now I can safely say it will never happen again.

>Have you seen how most slav women look past 30?
Not him but how bad?

Oh, I may have read too much into that. Sure.

Now, time for Gauharposting.

1) Most of the stuff in the post I answer to is either stated or hinted upon in what Nameless Sister says, especially two monologues after resurrection.
2) Nameless Sister is voiced by Gauhar.
3) In the interviews regarding the game Gauhar exhibited a far better handle on the themes of the game, and, moreover, related a far more plausible story of its origin, that leads to possibility of that in contrast to Pathologic, where the initial concept (Sanitarium clashed with Sokal's L'Amerzone - which, the latter, by the way, is highly likely essentially a redpill on Gadget: Past as Future first and foremost) was from Dybowski with Gauhar joining the team much later - this time around, the initial concept was literally Gauhar's doing.
4) The Void (Turgor: Voice of Color) was done fully in Gauhar's absence. Ambiguity got disposed of, nerva got disposed of, Nameless Sister got revoiced and rewritten, filling trees is now irrevocable no longer - and got a mediocre to negative reception in Russian-speaking countries to boot.

From that viewpoint it seems likely to assume original iteration of Nameless Sister to be Gauhar's ingame self-insert, laying things down for those a bit to thick to pick up on them on their own.

Now, to the parallels between, Eva and NS. There are two blatant ones:
1) Looks (skinny blonde/plat-blonde in an elegant dress - not that Gauhar was ever a blonde, but, as a sort of 3d forum avatar, this seems still plausible).
2) Suicide - even if for different reasons.
3) Both games starts at the respective characters' homes.

This calls for re-examination of whether Eva's character in Pathologic happens to spell out something important in the context of high-level structure of the game. Apparently she very much is.