Why did CRPGs die?

became romance simulators and world spanning political adventures, instead of low scale dungeon crawling.

they were never good

This. Despite everything, CRPGs are still one of the easier complex genres to make games of. I'm waiting for the space Age of Decadence game myself.

>the music is good therefore the outdated, slow, monotonous, and downright terrible gameplay is irrelevant.
nah mate, they suck.

Why don't you die?

Did they, though?
Baldurs Gate 2 still hits top selling every time it's on sale
Pillars of Eternity sold well
Divinity 2 was considered GOTY by many

Where can I find more like these 3

just replaying it again with eet

Rpg codex

CRPG combat is always so fucking bad and clunky.

the lowest common denominator kills everything
consolefags kills mechanics, quality, modding and choice
shooterfags kills rpgs.
Also, go play the Shadowrun Trilogy.

I wish i could enjoy bg again but it bore me a few hours in these days

>Also, go play the Shadowrun Trilogy
Seconding this

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Because I'd rather play a fully 3D RPG with fun combat instead of an isometric game with really bad combat. I'm all for having complex combat in games, but combat is just fucking slow and unrewarding.

It's much more fun doing solo runs, imo
I just finished a solo wild mage run, it was great

I'm looking forward to Colony Ship, Realms Beyond, Wasteland 3, Disco Elysium, Baldurs Gate 3 and Stygian.

cRPGs are far, far more numerous and alive than RTS as a genre.

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>I just finished a solo wild mage run, it was great
Might as well download the ee and play on story mode

>Disco Elysium
I am so hyped for this

cRPG gameplay mechanics are horrendous. Moving away from them is the best thing to happen to wRPGs

based

turn based combat is timeless.
RTWP can suck in hell

Looks like shit, we can only hope for good BG3.

because pillars of eternity 2 still can't run properly on my machine. Holy fucking shit, how unoptimized is this game.

it runs on the switch

The Shadowrun games are entry-tier

Agreed

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that's the first PoE and that game actually ran pretty great

Idk, it runs well except for Nekitaka, which drops few frames here and there.

They didn't, we've had crpgs in the last couple of years.

CRPGs (Particularly those from Obsidian) combine dated combat from the 90s with lifeless check-boxed modern world building.
What people want is the opposite.

>PoE2 higher than PoE
cringe

>tyranny not on the list

Neither is dead, crpgs still get new games and tons of people still play rts games. Healthy competitive scenes revolve around older games though, not the latest release.

> Those characters
Yikes.

>pathfinder

Holy Cringoli

What's wrong with Age of Decadence?

yes, trannies ruin everything

based

I don't think it is shit, but the CYOA tag is pretty accurate

Real time with pause is just garbage, especially in Obsidian games since they still have their recovery system which makes it fucking pseudo turn based anyway

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I don't find over head point of views to make for compelling gameplay experience. At least for me.

Damn, I should replay Nox.

You can try dragon age: origins. it's the best non-isometric crpg out there

they're boring

Yeah, RtwP is trash, but every game being turn-based gets pretty repetitive.

RTWP was a mistake.

Then just embrace real time combat

Prioritizing walls of text over gameplay.

>*sip* ahh, Fallout 2, now that was a good game

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Age of Decadence tricks you into thinking you're playing an RPG, but in fact it has like 10 storylines and each time you start the game you pick one and just linearly follow it.

So in the end you don't make a character that has their role in the world and you develop how you want, you simply stick to the dev's predetermined paths

friendly reminder that
>you only control one character
>tons of options for different builds
is better than
>party system
>shallower stats because there's more characters

A speech based character can only do that, talk in dialouges. While it is very reactive, it also tends to railroad you towards one solution.
The engine was garbage too.
If anything, the game showed that the devs are good writers, do choice and consequence well with multiple endings, and the combat was alright too, so I'm still looking forward to their upcoming game.

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Deadfire was way fucking worse than the first Pillars. Yes the graphics and the mechanics are better but everything else sucks balls. The story is literally 8 missions long, like wtf is this.

That led me to still enjoy Deadfire more than the first game user. I only enjoyed white march and the very beginning of PoE 1

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Well you have shit taste.

>tfw wanna replay Pathfinder as Chaotic Evil

Are Jade Empire and the KOTOR games CRPG? asking for a friend

>Real time with pause is just garbage
Naeh it's perfect. It's an improvement of the tabletop gameplay.
In tabletop you have too many rigid actions between turns to make it a game that can be played between humans, but with a computer doing all the calcs you don't need to be chained to that rigid structure and can make them more immersive with the fine tuned movements and delaying actions more precisely. That's the benefit of real time, and the pause still lets you make your moves without stress. It's literally perfect.

I'm enjoying some classics inbetween my uni work

>Inb4 macfag
Yeah, try studying without one

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Unwashed console peasant masses killed them.

That is how it literally never plays out

>try studying without one
gender studies?

KOTOR is, jade empire more console game but still has fantastic combat

Imagine being such a Zboomer that you only want a CRPG which were made when computers were fast enough to handle those calculations in real time.

Is this any good? I've been on the fence on buying it for a while now. I heard you need to speed up battles to really enjoy the game.

Psychology Profession, gonna have start at $120k a year when I finish

No because they lack a shitty perspective and crap animations.

Because JRPG's are better.

Not really, it's very simplistic and stiff

Name one thing JRPGs do better

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Starts strong, has a slump in the middle, picks up towards the end
About 40-50 hour playtime

Give it up, user. There will NEVER be a good JRPG.

>needing a fucking mac for studies
Is this an american thing? I could understand having to use windows for some CAD stuff or something.

sjws took over and scared off all the fans

zoom zoom zoom!

What psychology programs are mac exclusive?

It isn't as great as it sounds. The chaotic evil choices usually just end up being kill everything for the fun of it.

Macbooks are the best laptops for studying, period
Enjoy your clunky windows thinkpad, tho

Seething.

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there is a lot of trannies in /tg/ and it looks like they like this old style.

based retard

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>baldurs gate 1
>"zboomer"

Opening pdfs and taking notes sure is hard without a 2000 dollar facebook machine.

What does Persona do better than western RPGs? It has even more mindnumbingly braindead turnbased combat, no character interaction, but hey it has highschool tropes.
Only appealing to weebs, incels and japs (incel culture, which is why they are dying out)

Words hurt zoomers.

oh there's actual npc interaction
the characters get to interact with the player after all

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They are popular just not among normies.

Is that what you felt llike when you played P5? Because i couldn't wait to get back to the dungeon (hard difficulty of course) to face the trial and satisfying combat ahead. Not to forget the absolute banger of a soundtrack.

Fuck, Persona 5 is so good. I guess that's why they're remaking it already with even more content than the 100+ hour game provides.

CRPG's unfortunately cannot compete in this day and age, which is udnerstandable really. I mean how pathetic do you have to be to want to simulate playing sports? Now imagine being even more pathetic that you want to simulate playing a tabletop rpg.

I really do feel for CRPG fans.

So you have no real reason? You could have just said that you like macs and cocks up your ass

>Why did CRPGs die?
RTwP is complete garbage, yet fantasy CRPGs insist on using it.

jRPGs aren't RPGs, but linear turn based strategy games.

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>reading is gay and for faggots.
>he deprives himself from the joy of reading a good book
Never gonna make it.

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>omg meaningful NPC interactions!
>just like real life!

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so, not popular then my guy

>Pathfinder
>top tier

heheheh, just remove that and your list is ok

>reading is gay and for faggots.
>he deprives himself of the joy of reading a good book
Never gonna make it.

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PC gaming went mainstream and was no longer for mostly high iq nerd types

I want an RPG with the roleplaying of Planescape Torment or Baldur's Gate 1&2
And the gameplay of Dragon's Dogma or similar action RPGs

CRPGs are based on D&D and their roleplaying possibilities are great for it but their gameplay is stuck on being a somewhat automated conversion of the pen and paper game
DD:DA on the other hand has barely any writing to it and basically no real roleplaying but the combat is a better of translation of what the D&D combat should look like from a narrative perspective
Basically one type of game is a slow and clunky roleplaying simulator while the other is a shallow but fun rollplaying game but I want the best of both worlds and no developers seem to be able to deliver on this

>jRPG fans complain about combat in western games
>jRPG combat is even more simplistic than western turn based RPGs
why are they so delusional?

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>high iq nerd types
autistic geeks

Based.
Strategy is the thinking mans genre.
Rpg is the autistic roleplaying trannies genre.

>hehe, I'm just gonna mock the whole concept of storytelling through dialouge options because my favorite anime games don't have any
>also post an epic onions wojak
based retard

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I got Divinity OS2 on Yea Forums recommendation, and it was okay until I got to the first town. There's way too many NPCs and they all look the same, I keep feeling like I'm missing out on something. Eventually one of them led me away from the village before I had finished talking to everyone there, and that annoyed me so I stopped and I'm not sure I'm gonna launch it again.

Western RPGs have both, and deeper combat mechanics.

>posts a picture of /literally/ babbies first books

good lord if you could be any more cliche you'd be a faggot.

wRPG combat is invariably tedious and/or a clusterfuck

jRPGs aren't RPGs, but linear VNs with grindy turn-based combat
fixed

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I dare someone to defend POE/POE2/Tyranny combat

t.doesnt read

You are just too dumb for them user. Which is why jRPGs are dumbed down wizardry

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Because RTWP is shit.

This.

Technology limitations are the only reason top-down CRPGs ever existed. Now that hardware is more powerful, first- and third-person, fully 3D games are easier to make and play. Beyond a handful of cherry-picked tactical situations and honest nostalgia, there is no advantage--either in gameplay or profit--to designing an RPG using an isometric or top-down view.

CRPGtards spend so much time making charts that boil down to CRPG GOOD JRPG BAD. Do they actually play games? I've only seen one or two of the opposite.
Responding with "th-tha-that's because crpgs good and jrpgs bad and jrpg players know it!" is an automatic disqualification.

CRPGtards love to bring up Wizardry but literally none of them have played it. Why is that, I wonder?

Skyrim has shit combat mechanics

CRPG's are resurgeing while JRPG's are dying.

the combat is usually fast (or visually impressive) and straightforward. wRPG always get bogged down in irrelevant and autistic details.

They never died.

It is laughable the difference between western design and eastern "design".

Good western design always looks to invoke certain aspects of humanity, whether it be deep insights on emotion or the complex and intricate topic of a deeper philosophy. It always aims to challenge the player. Meanwhile it is complimented by outstanding gameplay that invigorates and tries to be fun and engaging.

The best that eastern design can muster is absolute garbage. It's usually extremely shallow character development followed by cutesy faces and dick teasing that anyone who isn't a porn addicted, mindless retard won't find entertaining. It never makes attempts at looking deeper on subjects, and can only tackle a surface level of any sort of topic. The gameplay is usually incredibly boring and lacking, resorting to the absolute snoozefest that is undynamic turn-based combat that focuses on numbers and autist-level planning instead of actually being fun or engaging. Atleast western games have figured out to make positioning part of the equation.

The only exception is the few cases where an eastern developer actually makes a good game, which, surprise surprise, is ALWAYS attempting to appeal to western audiences, so they use western design which makes it into a good game.

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DnD combat is absolute dildos.

>JRPGs
>dying
they're bigger than they've ever been in japan. western RPGs are just getting more popular because they're being increasingly dumbed down for normies.

Wrpg is not a game genre you mongoloid.

this.

Even as a young high IQ kid growing up in the 90s, games RESPECTED your intelligence. They knew that the game wasn't going to tell you what to do 100% of the time. If you got frustrated? Too bad. Figure it out. But when you did finally figure it out, you were like "damn" and it felt much more rewarding.

Compare that to questmarked Skyrim quest "go kill the evil vampire in teh cave for treasure", you just fast travel, enter, kill 3 monsters and your done. Literally no feeling of adventure or accomplishment despite the good graphics and atmosphere.

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Skyrim isn't an RPG user, no Bethesda game is. They are open world games with infodumps

Kinda how jRPGs also wrongly describe the genre as roleplaying when you have a set character and no control beyond combat

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Fuck off beep, you don't even play the games you criticize.
arch.b4k.co/v/thread/477845112/#477845112

RTwP + Purple Prose = Shit

Japs are great at making WRPGs though, e.g. Dragons Dogma

Just proving WRPG's are the superior genre.

Dragons Dogma is a good game, can't deny it.
Turn based japanese """RPG""" games are inferiour and so much inside a cockie cutter box, its kind of infuriating.

>Why did CRPGs die?
>Divinity:Original Sin
>Divinity:Original Sin 2
>Wasteland 2
>Pathfinder:Kingmaker
>Tyranny
What do you mean? cRPGs are alive and well.

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yeah, I completely agree

DD isn't great though

I'm not beep, I just think he is right.
He had the misfortune of being soft-doxxed, but any jRPG retard probably has a more emberassing history of posts and fetishes if it was laid bare.

how do you define "WRPG"?

I wish every WRPG was a dungeon crawler like Wizardry, rather than a fucking book.

>consolefags kills mechanics, quality
yet console games have far better combat and movement than any PC game

>Want good writing, RPG depth and choices and consequences
>Also don't want shitty clickfest isometric gameplay

How come no one has made a good RPG that isn't some shitty isometric game? It will either be very linear as an RPG but with good gameplay or the gameplay is kind of ass with decent RPG stuff. Never a good mix of the two.

Original stories/settings.

Literally every single WRPG is just trying to imitate pre-established settings, or HEAVILY copying them.

Tyranny is horrible, mostly because it just has too much combat

There are a gazillion dungeon crawlers out there. Go on the GOG catalog and you can find maybe 50 or more.

>console games have far better combat and movement than any PC game

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I actually enjoyed the combat with the custom spells/skills that you can make yourself but if you were using only the default spells i can see the combat getting boring eventually.

Dragon's Dogma is a JRPG.

Deus Ex

Alright, I'll bite. Name a few.

I don't own a laptop at all and I'm 3rd year med school. Most of the people with laptops drop out on their first year because they were browsing web/watching films instead of paying attention.

"No"

Actually good. I don't know why it escaped me, but it does do both pretty damn well.

> The only exception is the few cases where an eastern developer actually makes a good game, which, surprise surprise, is ALWAYS attempting to appeal to western audiences, so they use western design which makes it into a good game.

>played the shit out of both Pillars 1 and 2
>heard good things about Divinity OS2
>play it for 1 hour, it feels completely wrong to play
>uninstall
Feels pretty bad

>Original stories/settings.
> imitate pre-established settings, or HEAVILY copying them.
It's not like jrps copy
>Fantasy medieval Europe
>Space
>A highschool
>Or destroyed Japan
Yeah, every jrp setting is unique and original.

Because voice acting and feminism

I've played so many, both eastern and western. I dunno why I like getting lost in mazes and dying to ailments so much.

This reminds of how PC redditors legitimately believe Consoles killed arena shooters despite the fact that their two entirely different audiences

If Skyrim is an RPG, then Zelda Breath of the Wild is just a text dialouge window away from being a roleplaying game.

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Hold on totally not beep, you're saying that a person that knows jackshit about a genre is 100% right when it comes to criticize said genre?
Holy shit you're braindead.

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Even if the spell creation system is interesting, it gets really boring with the short cooldowns since each spell is not THAT powerful
The combat does not feel MEANINGFUL
Oh and the equipment and items of Tyranny suck ass since it is just same bronze and iron armor/weapons over and over again

Crpgs are almost exclusively indie Tumblr shit now

I feel like this is a pasta

sometimes it turns out to be the smart choice, though, which puts it one up on a lot of games

>hoboken
>new york
this is what they want to believe

"Yes"

Isn't it annoying them MORAL DILEMMAS are written to be too much on the nose?

no. just pick the right one for the best reward.

Aka just look it up on the wiki huh

sure

or:
quicksave
choose
quickload
choose
quickload
choose
ok 2 was best
quickload
choose

"Gotta have that clause at the end when they prove me wrong!"
Dragons dogma rips off monster hunter, dmc, pokèmon and classic jrpgs btw.

Yeah I agree with this
Every moral dilemma is SIDE WITH X AND KILL Y or SIDE WITH Y AND KILL X
Although the kill might not always be you killing off said faction or character yourself but they end up dead anyway every time
I actually like it when games let's me choose support someone and I see something like a growth in them as a reward (along with money or items)
Just seeing a small settlement grow a little larger or have a character take a different position in the world is often more charming than starting with 2 groups, making a choice and being left with just 1 group

that doesn't even make sense, isn't it a Unity game? It's not like it's their own engine. Unless the trannies still at Obsidian manage to even fuck up an amateur's engine, which is possible since even Sawyer admitted load times in the original POE were so bad because Obsidian did some fundamental things entirely wrong and didn't realize until they were too deep in development (aka a week in, because they just rammed everything about POE through as fast as possible as their cash reserves were nearly depleted and they needed to release something to make sales)

it's mostly through wetern world design and visuals. also, WRPGs allow wide character customization and JRPGs have specific style of combat and quests, but not always the case
it's a WRPG with JRPG elements and themes, but they're well done and actually a breath of fresh air in this setting instead of being annoying as usual.

Can I jump right into BG2 without finishing BG1?
1 got tedious for me, and it's the kind of game that kicks my ass no matter what I do. The only way I managed to do progress was by cheesing the AI.

>yet console games have far better combat and movement than any PC game

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I have not run into this ever, pretty much every CRPG I’ve played the ones with party members also had more in depth character building.

who here wants to take a big smelly shit?

cheesing IS the fun

Oh and you also go out and kill god at the end so y'know, you """""wrpg""""" elitist should automatically hate it.

DA:I combat is hugely underrated
It has very good fundamentals actually
Only DA2 had shit combat in the franchise

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they were all a clusterfuck, imp

You can, it's fairly common to do so.
I prefer 1 though.
How far have you gottten into bg1? Maybe getting a better idea of who you are might be good first, but I suppose you could check the dream sequences on youtube.

I particularly like the return to candlekeep as more about your rival is revealed.

youtube.com/watch?v=0pJJIjxeSVU

Yeah you can skip 1. And you'll be cheesing the ai in 2 as well because cloudkill too good.

This is why democracy should be abolished and an theocratic aristocracy should be the movers of culture. Normalfags literally make me want to go on a rampage.

PC games invented nearly every control scheme way before console games.

>wasteland 3

Fuck nope all in exile rpgs turned out shit
and this one is aswell

>it's a WRPG with JRPG elements
No it's not, aside from the d&d aesthetics it has nothing from your fantomatic game genre.

Found the 5efags.

be a good boys and play spellforce 3

youtube.com/watch?v=xPLUNEVZ4HQ

youtube.com/watch?v=tNd24JevOhw

youtube.com/watch?v=qQZhJYVzGIY

Is Geralt in it?

fpbp
They are boring as fuck and all look same

Dragon's Dogma is literally a third person action game.

To claim otherwise would be as ridiculous as seriously holding that God Of War is an rpg series.

unironically sjws

crpgs were coming back, but sjws had to ruin them with real world politics

Agreed, Jrpgs are actually good and fun

keep telling yourself that weebshit

i kinda agree i did give up on poe 2 and tyranny for that reason

felt the same about Wasteland 2, wanted to enjoy it so much but I just couldn't

western RPGs have evolved, jRPGs have not.
I pity people that enjoy this, I grew out of it with pokemon at the age of 12

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ii did like it a lot the problem was on release the games was in horrible state and you was not able to finish the game for like 1 month after release it was even worse that bugfinder kingmaker

desu I'd be cool playing games that looked like Deus Ex graphically if it meant we could have the same depth of gameplay/writing

I never played Tyranny but if you think the mere existence of blacks/gays makes something sjw then you’re way too deep in pol shit.

How many wrpgs and how many jrpgs do you have in your top 50?

They stopped being CRPGs and started being weird Bioware sims.

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>Why did CRPGs die?
no they didn't

Because less and less people are able to live the NEET life required to play a cRPG that requires a huge time investment. This is why I just play games that you can easily hop in and out of now, like CoD or Insurgency: Sandstorm. Don't have time for this shit anymore.

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>give brainlets money through socialist wealth redistribution systems
>brainlets are now the biggest spending power
>if you want to make money you have to market to brainlets
>cRPG are too hard for brainlets

that is your projection user i do not give damm about faggots or niggers

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>namecalling

I did not ever feel like the game was pushing sjw shit in PoE. There were nations that had values that might vaguely align with a sjws but you were free to ignore or go against them.

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nigs are whatever, but fags implies the games doing something sexual or it wouldn't be pertinent

RIP user, I sure hope you're hard at work kissing assholes and shaking hands. Then again
>"needs" a mac to study
Probably not

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fpbp

>You miss a lot in D&D - if the dice are bad, you miss," he says. "That doesn't work well in a game. If I do that, you are going to review it and say it's shit.
Baldurs Gate 3 is going to be shit isnt it?

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It's going to be a soulless tryhard of mess. Just like DOS2.

Sounds like it.

did percentage to hit not apply in divinity OS?

Ive been considering getting the standalone thingie. Anyone played it? Looks a tad generic, but I only watched some reviews. Im itching for some strategy I havent played 300 times

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>That doesn't work well in a game. If I do that, you are going to review it and say it's shit
That's true tho
Pathfinder Kingmaker had retarded hit rolls and everyone's AC was too high
The playtime would probably be a good 10 to 20% shorter if every attack hit instead of standing in front of each others faces and missing

imagine if one of your kids turns out this dense and one day starts demanding a macbook because "those are the best for studying!"

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Baldur's gate had shitty combat to begin with, Larian would be hard pressed to implement a worse system than the garbage second edition adaptation of those classic black isle and bioware games.

It was too hard for Yea Forums.

When Bioware started hiring women

it is decent game if you storyfag you will like it a lot the gameplay is kinda meh

Undertail is a deep as crpg with good tactical combat and awesome quest design, play it

>"95% is the maximum to hit percentage becouse D&D said so"
There should be some kind fix to this, like a perk that lets you go 100% if you are standing still and not moving or something

Once you get into the midgame, your party will nearly always hit. Once you haste them up every fight, it stops being a problem alltogether.

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Only really applies on difficulties above normal, PF is so generous with magic items and 6 man party gives access to so many buffs you shouldn’t miss much late game unless you’re doing something wrong.

>Baldurs Gate 3

I'm worried about this game as most of the information coming from this game seem very dumbed down.

Can you guys recommend me some entry level CRPGs? They seem like they might be interesting but I just can´t get into them.

RTWP killed it

yeah the problem is solved in the lategame but you guys know that this is a long ass game?
it takes a lot of playtime to get to the point where missing stops being a problem and you will waste a lot of time during the early game especially and some more during the midgame on just missing swing after swing

Play underrail!
Watch this to get the gist
youtu.be/SgAn68Uy2jQ
And I've got like 50hrs in it already and I've had it for like a week

fallout 1
witcher 1
New vegas

Id recommend Baldurs Gate series, but Ive been playing them as a wee lad, so it might be nostalgia. Pathfinder Kingmaker is the best current option available

Divinity Original Sin

Only NV is entry level out of those and it's not a CRPG

>call others lowest common denominator
>recommends nu-shadowrun
holy hell, what a retard

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I'm a spic and I love these type of games.

No, he's right. That said he can have you *hit* but do so for bare-ass minimum values. You're receiving feedback that combat IS taking place, but your character fucking sucks at it. That can at least be more satisfying than reading a combat log which consists of *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* *whiff*
A Giant Rat bites you for 2 damage! *whiff* *whiff*--that's assuming you're actually reading the combat log and not just watching your faggot swing his weapon back and forth like he's fanning air.

go for Baldurs Gate 2 no matter how many times i replay it i always want more

Disregard this, i suck cocks
Underrail is fine tho

All of those are super entry level. How can you not think Fallout 1 isn't entry level?

2 is the better game, but it wont have the same impact if you skip 1. And 1 is really fucking slow to play. Glacial

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user it isn't the 90s anymore, how do you expect someone nowadays to get into the genre with Fallout 1?

See

Reminder that Bioware, Obsidian, Larian, Bethesda, and CDPR are bad game devs. If you like their garbage you are a normalfag.

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Of course you'd think so Skwisgaar, you only know how to play fast.

for a long time MMOs soaked up the playerbase. Also party management is not fun, best systems are the ones where you don't have to do anything and you get a steady stream of variety in the party, IE Neverwinter Nights 1 mercs, Diablo II mercs, or Dragons Dogma Pawns

name 5(five) good game devs

I'm not sure which is the easiest to get into.

Of the forgotten realms ones it should be Baldurs Gate 2, I think.
While I like baldurs gate 1 a lot, it's harder to get into these days for a new guy.
If you like dungeon crawling then icewind dale could work.

i agree on that but i also think that the first game did not aged to well so for new player it may be boring

It even gives you pre-made builds and the combat is braindead. Alternatively, you can go heavy into perception and see 100% of what the game has to offer and clear it within 4 hours. Its basically a VN.

New vegas has enough crpg dna to introduce you in similar rpgs.

ebin contrarian

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>SSI
>New World Computing
>Spiderweb Software
>Iron Tower Studio
>Stygian Software

>start at $120k a year
>Psychology

Boy are you in a rude awakening when you enter the job market.

t. 2018 graduate

Never heard of them so sure why not

>POPULAR = GOOD
shut up pleb

Thanks, fellas

MMOs replaced them, then MMOs became boring and where replaced by huge CRPGs so full of interesting content no online experience can compete now.

>Yeah, try studying without one
Well yeah I got civil engineering, plus a mayor in rock blasting and phd in economy just using my pc and a fx-570x calculator

>might and magic general with a pastebin of every single game in the franchise has been on Yea Forums for like a decade
>never heard of them
are you sure you like rpgs

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They try to force the RTWP meme instead of actually innovating. Only Planescape is worth playing for its setting, all other crpgs are shit.

Bioware was good a long time ago and has been shit for about a decade now
Obsidian was good for even longer but their latest projects under-delivered
Larian is fine, their games have a smaller budget and don't take themselves too seriously but they're fun
Bethesda is awful and has been since Oblivion, which was shit as a vanilla game and you're only nostalgic for it because it made for a great modding platform
CDPR is young but did fairly well so far, Witcher 2 was their peak so far but if we're lucky cyberpunk will turn out just right
I wish they dropped the open world meme tho, it hurts their games and they don't seem to realize

Are blobbers rpgs, genuinely asking?

>start at $120k a year
lol

The dullest RPG of all time killed all the hype. Each attempt Obsidian makes to create their own universe rather than simply deconstruct a setting made by others, has been more disastrous than the last. Aside from the outdated gameplay and lifeless cities, Pillars of Eternity's only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of combat mechanics, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when Sawyer vetoed the idea of making anything at all innovative or original; he made sure the game would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody, just ridiculously profitable nostalgia pandering to ageing Baldur's Gate fans. Pillars of Eternity might be anti-casual(or not), but it’s certainly the anti-Divinity series in its refusal of spontaneity, fun and excitement.

>a-at least the writing was good though

"No!"

The writing is dreadful; the narrative was terrible. As I played, I noticed that every time I engaged in dialogue with an NPC the game presented me with a Wiki-page style infodump instead of anything resembling actual human conversation.

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time this was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Sawyer's mind is so governed by obsession with pointless minutiae of the lore that he has no other style of writing.

Later I read a lavish, loving review of Pillars of Eternity by the same David Gaider. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kiddies are playing Obsidian games at 17 or 18, then when they get older they will go on to enjoy Dragon Age II." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you play "Pillars of Eternity" you are, in fact, trained to shill for Bioware.

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>Are blobbers rpgs, genuinely asking?
Unless you are using some super strict autistic definition, yes. I would argue that dungeon crawlers on the scale of Might and Magic have more player freedom and C&C than what is typically heralded as a good CRPG.

That's the harry potter pasta lol

>divinity original sin 2 OK tier
>popular thing bad

it's literally an improved Divinity 1 you contrarian retard. I can't wait until underrail gets popular with normies and Yea Forums pretends it's just OK

>PoE sold well
Yeah, it sold so well that Obsidian had to be bought out by microsoft and they had to try to shoe horn turn based combat after D:OS2 did so well to try to get more sales. Also, Josh didn't act like a massive fucking baby over it, cursing D:OS2 under his breath for 50 minutes either.
youtube.com/watch?v=F0RW3upLoJI

>Character Role Playing Games
>Can't actually roleplay a character that shows their ass to half the world.
What did Game Designers that based their games on table-top roleplaying that had their carefully designed DM campaigns blown up within five minutes of starting mean by this railroading?

The setting and writing is all Planescape has to offer. It is a wonderful game to play, but as far as game mechanics go, it is a total failure. If you play anything but a mage with high int / wis, you will literally miss half the important things.

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I like Dragonfall more than PoE

>Character Role Playing Games
>Can't actually roleplay a character that bangs every female in their vicinity
What even is the point of CHA?

If you're playing crpgs for the combat, you're a fucking retard with zero friends to play DnD with. crpgs try to emulate DnD combat, like its any good without a DM.

>Bioware was good a long time ago and has been shit for about a decade now
>Obsidian was good for even longer but their latest projects under-delivered
Nope, they were literally never good. They almost murdered CRPGs because now every normalfaggot thinks their garbage is what CRPGs are supposed to be.
>Larian is fine
They make games for people that don't like RPGs.
>CDPR
They are the great satan. Witcher 1 was mediocre, Witcher 2 was an abomination, and Witcher 3 is one of the worst games I have ever played. (and I have played thousands of games) There is no way Cyberpunk will be good. You sound like a faggot though, so I'm sure you will like it.

The point of CHA is playing a neutral evil sorcerer that talks everyone into doing what furthers their goals. Good alligned need not apply
>cant roleplay a redditor
aawww, shucks :(

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I dont have to play a game FOR the combat to enjoy it. Planescapes combat is shit, you only slog through it to get to the next interesting tidbit.

I unironically understand alignments even less after Kingmaker

What does Divinity OS 2 do better than one?
All it did was make dumb changes to the combat system.

1984 is the only one worth reading there. The others are skippable. I'm sorry your elitist faggotry was exposed.

t. Librarian.

Attention span. Our generation was much different than the Zoomers. They're biologically incapable of enjoying these games. We are the dying breed, we're busy with our adult life and these games take too much of it.

god, I wish that were me

How so? Seems pretty straightfoward

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Keep trying sonny, maybe you fit in one day.

awful gameplay. the same derived tolkein-esque settings over and over. crpg writers believing that quantity > quality in regards to dialogue etc

>no brave new world

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>Genocide all trolls
LG
>Kill baby trolls
LE
Shit like that mostly, like they couldn't pick whether killing bad stuff is good or not

>tolkein-esque
IT HAS ORCS AND ELVES THUS IT IS DERIVED FROM TOLKIEN, PEASANTS

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>Deadfire outside Shit tier

This summarizes quite well why Yea Forums is such a fuckin shitty board...

>a bunch of high school lit
holy yikes, start with the greeks kiddo

u mad?

based user
ignore the story basedboys
Monomyth soon

games like BG and KotOR are pseudo turn-based
in PoE actions have different length and you don't go into recovery after moving

>Genocide all trolls
Its a knight in shining armor thing. Trolls terrorize the common folk, so its a good deed to eradicate them.
>Kill baby trolls
In the developers mind it takes a ruthless person to go so far as to exterminate the offspring specifically, however it is still a lawful thing bc trolls are terrorizing the common folk etc pp
I get what you mean though, some of the consequences are random as fuck.

no u

Yeah I play crpg for the combat. Fucking loved Divinity Original Sin 2 because the combat was fun as hell and on proper difficulty you actually needed to think about encounters. Too bad the setting and story were boring.

I feel like the L or C spectrum worked but the G or E not at all. Like I vaguely remeber sometimes Lawful Evil was like being greedy and egoistic, while sometimes it was more about good of your kingdom no matter the morality, both of those kinda clash in my head

RPG Codex has it's own game awards
Your tiers are totally messed up.

Because they all possessed the shittiest gameplay format imaginable.

Shittiest gameplay of any genre that was tolerated only because of the limitation of the time.

Because you don't pay attention to anything that isnt AAA garbage so in your eyes theyre dead

I started NE and veered towards LE once I became King and I found it MOSTLY consistent. They throw some really weird fucking curveballs every once and again though

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I started LN tried to become LE but ended up drifting to LG until the game started to shit itself around the time I was going to become a king cause I played it on release

FF9>FF5>Baldurs Gate>Icewind Dale>Baldurs Gate 2>FF7>Chrono Trigger>Morrowind>FF6>FFX>FFXII

I don't get this criticism of the game either. It didn't seem to push political factions like that. It seemed like a well developed world where those people existed but their opposites existed as well.

Alignments are moral choices so they're up to interpretation (with the exception of legal, which is obvious).
P:KM has a very childish view of these moral choices and so, it not only gets confusing, it makes playing your character extremely annoying since the options given are so dumb.
>Good = I'll do it! No need for a reward!
>Neutral = I don't care about anything
>Evil = I'll do it! But I want more in exchange!
That's it, that's their understanding of player choices. It also leads to such caricaturized scenes like being forced to decide to appologize to your companion and lick her feet for trying to help her or murder everybody in the room, no middle ground.

It's a genre for fat neckbearded erpers. They just roleplay online now instead of using games with horrible gameplay to live out their pathetic fantasy.

What do you recommend besides Underrail?

Based

basedo

Thats a shame, I heard it was awful on release, but now its really fucking great. I didnt play LG, but they certainly managed to not make it an alignment for good-two-shoes, but for hard motherfuckers who will cut down the evil in their way no matter what. Or so it looks like to me, anyway

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It's predecessor, Undertale

Not large enough audience also the audience for CRPGs is by nature very critical and also with diverse interests.

Get out Sseth

Awful battle systems and dull writing worse than young adult fiction pretty much killed off the genre until recently. Now they are full of reddit tier writing with the same awful gameplay.

I want to play the Baldur's Gate games since I'm getting into old CRPGs and have never played them. I should avoid the enhanced editions right? Should I install the mod that runs 1 on 2's engine?
Also, are the old wizardry and might and magic games worth playing? I'm interested in them too.

You could have said this about almost any other crpg but PF does the alignments fairly well, the only people that get mad are the min-maxers mad they can't always take the best option and goody two shoes wannabe Paladin neutral goods.

The combat is fucking garbage, and the game heavily discourages you from participating in it at all.
Too many stat/skill checks that permanently lock you out of shit if you fail them.

it is meme you would be idiot not install the enhanced editions

You can mod or get the enhanced editions. The only thing you have to decide is if you want to pay the remaster guys money for it. Both are fine for playing. Remastered adds some op companions you can abuse if it gets hard.
bring some patience if you want to play BG 1, but it is worth it if youre going to play the whole saga. Very much worth it.

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Beamdog is guilty of a number of different crimes. Here are the major ones.

1. The Enhanced Editions are essentially a collection of free mods that had existed for nearly twenty years. Beamdog gathered them all up, slapped "Enhanced Edition" on it and resold it as a new product. There's very very little in the Enhanced Editions that wasn't already out there, and most of it is stuff you don't want (like obnoxious character outlines).

2. The games didn't sell so well and the originals were still far outselling them, even twenty years after their release, so Beamdog had EVERY digital distributor stop selling the originals and ONLY sell the Enhanced Edition. If you want to buy a digital copy of the originals now, they're "bundled" into the Enhanced Edition. Now these scumbags can claim sales from people just wanting to buy the originals as their own.

3. The infamous 600+ bugs on launch. The game is still riddled with bugs (as even a perfunctory glance over their forums show) but the fact that it took nearly two years for them to get a game that had been working fine for 20 years to reach playability after launch is telling of their wild incompetence.

4. This is where we get to the ones that really piss people off. Beamdog couldn't just remaster the game, they had to fuck with the content too. New dialogue for existing NPCs like Jaheira, Viconia, Safana, Kivan, et cetera was written in to make the characters more progressive and leftist friendly. Beamdog shills will argue that "adding content isn't changing content XDDD" but it is when the new content changes the core personalities of the existing characters. This is in addition to adding a slew of their own LGBT (hitherto there were none in Baldur's Gate) NPCs, all flooded with OP attributes and magic items to encourage people to play them despite their cancer.

5. Siege of motherfucking Dragonspear.

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Just get the enchanted editions
Unless you want to manually do all the improvements Beamdog did
You can just kinda ignore the extra content if it twists your knickers

It's more like
>Good = Kill them all! Mindless beast need not draw breath!
>Neutral = Eh, let em live
>Evil = Kill them all! I want this room painted with their blood!

> It also leads to such caricaturized scenes like being forced to decide to appologize to your companion and lick her feet for trying to help her or murder everybody in the room, no middle ground.
Fucking who? The closest to this is the barb, and you can choose not to be nice to her at any point, and the other barbs want to kill you anyways for most of that shit.

>I should avoid the enhanced editions right?
Yes definitely.
At the very least you can play EE but with mods that remove the added characters, then I think they should be as fine as bg1tutu.

Though I'd still suggest something unpopular which is to play baldurs gate 1 without the bg2 mechanic changes, only resolution patches, the kits do make the game play quite differently, I'd only use that for repeated playthroughs where you have a specific long term plan in mind.

based

Based and truthpilled. Fuck Beamdog.

>New dialogue for existing NPCs like Jaheira, Viconia, Safana, Kivan, et cetera was written in to make the characters more progressive and leftist friendly.
seething

Keep in mind that retards that say things like this:
>You can just kinda ignore the extra content if it twists your knickers
Are lying to you.
This is a complete fabrication, they'll be pushed into your face and you as a new player can't completely ignore them, they'll perform cutscenes in front of you and engage you, as a new player you want to get immersed in the game and not guess which character is a taint and which is not.
Get EE with the patch that removes them, or don't play EE, those are the only viable solutions.

for fuck sake...
you can ignore them in the sense that you can tell them fuck off you don't need to play any of the new content
i may hate beamdog as any decent person would but it is nonsense to not use version of game that dont requie you to mod it

Mega bait or ultimate zoomer? You decide

Go play the retail version of BG if you autist over so much over it

>to not use version of game that dont requie you to mod it
It does require you to mod it, you need the mod that removes the fanfiction characters.
It's cruel to rob a new player of a good gaming experience so stop lying to them when they say they want to play baldurs gate.

what a faggot answer

>1
Eh's it's not exactly expensive to pay for the polishes and not having to deal with modding issues.
>2
Yeah no that's not how business is being done. They are now the owners of the IP. Of course they'll pull the dated build to sell their own.
>3
>5
You can't complain about leaving the original content unfinished while ALSO complain about minor changes being added. If they'd fix the broken quest lines and characters they'd have to write the missing pieces themselves. I do agree hate the ""woke"" new NPC's are shit but you can just leave them.
>6
Well yeah. They tried and they failed, at least it's optional.

crpgs didn't die
people's brains turned into mush

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I feel like I'm getting too old, the levels of shitposting in that img are too much for me

Did they? There's at least one released every year.

I think he's making fun of that retard who always comes around complaining that PoE2 is exactly what it advertised itself as and not a JRPG.

Go play The Witcher 3 and Demon's Souls

What's wrong with Siege?

the writing is really bad it is more fan fiction tier sadly
the level desing for was decent but then... some npc-companion start talking and you are instantly out of imersion it is actually great comparsion betwen the writers back then and now as for exaple they do push a lot of real world politic and reference into the game and it just suck.. .and it is clear that it is not belong to the ga

If I install the remove EE companions mod and the UI fix and just ignore SoD is EE ok? I like the idea of the qol adjustments and everything else.

hey, be respectful, maybe he is doing nigger studies.

>Shadowrun bad
aww man I was gonna play Hong Kong but then I remembered how forgettable the first one was

Sure, but you have to live in San Francisco

I really hope you aim to be like Jordan Peterson or you will end working as a HR drone

Dragonfall is still the best of the 3, but Hong Kong is also good, it's like what 15-20$ now? Easily worth it.

to be fair, real RPG must be played with other people. CRPG are just videogames with character creation.

Have all of them from the pack, just forgot which and if they need to be played in chronological order.

found the tranny

>CRPGs
>dead
What? They're more alive than before.

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They're all stand alone and can be played in any order. The first one's onyl value is being new at the time and a breath of (if still average) fresh air in the medium. It's safe to skip it and then go to the next 2.

Hong Kong's setting is slightly less interesting imho and I did not enjoy the end game, but 2/3 of the characters are really amazing. Dragonfall is good the whole way trough and more akin to a normal shadowrun experience, plus it also has some real good side characters (except like one of them, I forgot it's been years)

Sauce on the pic?

I played a full warrior with high wis, normal int and max con.

You are indestructible

I thought zoomer students were supposed to be handy with computers. Unless you've always been a mac fan, how the fuck did you fall for the 'pc bad Mac™ good' meme in 2009+?

youtube.com/watch?v=SgAn68Uy2jQ

>die
what? there's been quite a few this decade to keep you occupied.
on the other hand when was the last time an actual successful RTS was released?

I consider Dos2 the best game ive played for a while now, im glad theyre not popular, let the zoomers play cod and fortnite

fucking casual trash

Why because you cant 360 noscope them?

>be balance man
>don't understand the basics or a crpg
>load the story down with middleschool tier writing
>doesn't go over well
>get mad and throw a tantrum
>leave for two months to ride bikes around california
>come back
>"Yeah shit's fucked, lets sell ourselves to microsoft"

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He looks so young. How old was he there?

>Disco Elysium
I'm not really a fan of being stuck with pre created characters to that extent in a proper RPG.

30 something

And yet he made one of the best RPGs ever made.

holy god damn baaaaaaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeed

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based and truthpilled

that'd be strange because the Original Sin games were vastly more complex than the BG games

>Can't backtrack to previous acts.
>source points system doesn't accomplish anything, just makes using certain abilities tedious as fuck due to needing to replenish them.
>AP economy shrink, making a lot of spells cost too much to be worth using.
>Attributes lose out on functionality due to aforementioned AP changes, speed dropped entirely as a result.
>Damage/Status resist dropped in favor of shitty temp-health armor system.

Last playthrough of 2 was six months ago, so I'm probably forgetting some things.

Psychologist here, this is bullshit.

Yeah but they're fun.
It's already just ok, it stands out because there's not much good around.

>Copy neverwinter nights
>Leave Black Isle while working on fallout 3
>Design neverwinter nights 2 for obsidian
>Desig new vegas
Has he ever had an original idea?

fallout and baldur's gate killed the genre

PC gaming died in the 00s

It dragged CRPGs and RTSs with them

This, they were too good and no other games could compete.

I'm not familiar with CRPGs, is this bait or no? I've been wanting to play a tabletop game in vidya form, and Pathfinder is the only option I can think of right now aside from BG and the like, but I'm wanting something a bit more recent.

"Why not?"

half bait half not

based

go play jrpgs, kiddo

Yes.

But I do, western gaming is dead, I have no choice but to play JRPGs (which are based as fuck desu)

I'd agree with you but then you had to say something as tasteless as that. JRPGs are for reptile brains

because shit, and fucking real life ideologies-driven developers started making them. its fucking annoying.

Play it then, it's very short, and not a bad game.
And you'll see what he means, and agree.

ZOOM ZOOM!

reptilians are top of the food chain my nigger

just reading this comment makes clear you havent read a single fucking book in your life and you're just following internet comments about the quality of books

>Le consoles boogieman! XD
PCgaming has been a joke for 12 years, pal.

Not sure why you'd want that. You'd be down in the dirt with the plebs.

>Minecraft did bad because it was bought by Microsoft

Proof that education can't give you a brain.
Best for studying... O tempora, o mores.

Shut the fuck up weeb

>See how obscure and contrarian my tastes are.
>AM I ONE OF (YOU) YET?!
wew

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Are you retarded? He meant Deadfire. It sold what? 250k? And was immediately dropped by most people because of the shit writing

Why did you start a thread on a faulty premise that isn't true

Did Kingmaker EE fix a lot?
I played that game for roughly 200~ hours but didn't finish it because the game was unable to be completed and I burnt out.

>Kingmaker
>There's an enemy damage slider
>It goes up to 3
>all modes above "normal" are set to 1
>"hardest" mode is 2
>rated T for teen
Yikes desu senpai

How is Tyranny?

Pillars of Eternity 2 was sold in the kickstarter, you big dummy.

>Pillars of Eternity 2 was sold in the kickstarter
I still remember when trannies admitted they donated to get some pull in the development and then said they didn't even want to play the game

>How is Tyranny?
It's the last good Obsidian game.
>inb4 a bunch of coping PoE fanatics jump on me
PoE is shit and so it nu-Vegas.

Unironically liked it more than PoE but I wouldn't say it's a good game

Arcanum.

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they games that were a result of limitations of technology. now that technology has advanced the "reasons" for certain aspects of the genre arent so important.

ie top down camera. 2d graphics, no voice overs, turn based combat, lack of complex animations,

technology finally reached a spot where you can make completely immersive first person 3d worlds that are to scale. why a game like BG2 when any old studio can create a game like GreedFall (not saying greedfall is better, its def is not)

>I wouldn't say it's a good game
I would.It's not a great game but is definitely a good game.

73.986 of the people who backed the project are trannies.

It's an ok game at best

The only problem with Tyranny is its length, man the game is ridiculously short. I couldn't believe that I had finished the game so quickly

>but in fact it has like 10 storylines
So 3 times more storylines than an average CRPG, got it.

>each time you start the game you pick class
>linearly follow it.
So you never betrayed anyone or played the game at all got it

And yet Obsidian listened to this super minority.

I can't stand the first hour because of the graphics/artstyle, but i liked PoE. Should i give it another chance?

based, assuming you don't trust gnomes

t.underage shitstain
The top down and the turn based combat are there to emulate pen & paper RPGs. Computer RPGs came into existence as an attempt to recreate pen & paper games, how young are you?

You are right about that, which is incredibly stupid and sad at the same time.

>$120k
Ohohohohohoh

none of that contradicts what i said. when technology was better they were able to recreate those expereinces to a higher degree. in addition i feel like D&D is more popular now than ever. CRPGs are a middle ground, between pen and paper and a 3d immersive experience. why go for something that does neither that well?

>Too many stat/skill checks that permanently lock you out of shit if you fail them.
How is this a bad thing?

>Has he ever had an original idea?

Did he fuck your girlfriend or something?

the first one you fucking retard sold great

1984 is shit tier and just because you were assigened to read it in highschool doesn't change that fact
literally a third of that book is the part people remember
the other 2 thirds is a weirdly place romance and torture porn

Simple. You played crpgs because you couldn't regularly get a roleplaying group together. Now it's pretty easy to find a group online and play with them through roll20, fantasy grounds, or tabletop sim.

I mean the genre also stopped innovating and tried to rely on story over making the gameplay mechanics actually fun and interesting. This is also why Divinity OS2 sold so well.

You have to make a crpgs more fun to play than actual tabletop role-playing and you can't do that with story alone anymore.

you got it backwards. today's crpgs are the ones that prioritize story over gameplay.

your actually a fucking tard
div 1 combat was even more busted and almost every fight you could end it before your 2nd turn just from how busted aoe spells were
its writing and humor was juinvivlle and reminded me too much of borderlands
its animations, move speed, and healing after every fight are extreamly slow and a drag to get though
its main plot is generic world ending dragon and no one in their right mind can stay awake when the goblin dumps exposition for 40 mins straight

dont fall for the contrition meme too hard user

I really enjoyed Pathfinder Kingmaker. I think it's disliked on Yea Forums not entirely sure why.
My CRPG experience is low though. Only played Pillars of Eternity 1 and Original Sin 2. My friend ruined Original Sin 2 and PoE isn't very good.

B-but Divinity and the new Baldur´s gate...

The gameplay in old crpgs are not fun I don't know what you're talking about. There's some leeway as to what you can do, but I wouldn't describe any of it as fun.

2 got rid of resistance rolls and replaced it with an armor system (with no rng).

Ultima went online. Devoid of inspiration to leech off of the CRPG scene went nearly extinct.

How did your friend ruin divinity OS 2 for you? Was he too Jewish? I had a friend who wasted time collecting everything, stealing all the gear as fast possible, and robbing shopkeeps.

I don't understand why people whine about his balancing so much. OS2 fundamentally overhauled a bunch of shit like initiatives and CC with unfun bandaids while leaving actual problems like barrelmancy alone. Meanwhile PoE just brings overcentralizing options in line with everything else while leaving the core of the skill the same.

You are literally this guy from this meme

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He killed literally everyone.

> I think it's disliked on Yea Forums not entirely sure why.
The abysmal launch that had half of the game literally broken on release?

Pathfinder Kingmaker is by far the best recent CRPG. The issue with it is that on release the difficulty scaling was incredibly wack and you got stuff like a random goblin with 45AC which triggered a lot of people, though I think that is largely fixed now.

That said, in terms of writing, worldbuilding and especially content it blows the other recent games out of the water in my opinion. The sheer amount of content in particular is impressive, being larger than BG1/2 and expansion combined.

>I don't understand why people whine about his balancing so much.
Just played deadfire last night. A base left 12 quest has a level 16 tank in it. After his "balance patches" the level 12 quest has a level 20 tank in it (max level). It took me 10 minutes on the fastest combat speed to kill it with a full party of level 14 characters. That's why he's earned the name "balance man"

well, I happen to find challenging combat, exploration and solving puzzles more fun than skipping fights with a speech check or picking dialogue choices that change ending slides.

Dunno. Played it right before the last DLC.
You can customize the difficulty a lot.
Was that added later?

Honest question - why the fuck is missing a swing in an RPG such a tragedy to some people?

In a real sword-fight not every swing is going to connect because people step back, bob and weave, or your aim is shit and you glance.

It’s muh realism autism I think, people can’t mentally understand that what’s happening on screen is an abstraction so they think “but I’m hitting him!” like with Morrowind.

the Shadowrun games suck

Yeah. A lot of people got upset after picking "Challenging" and being challenged, so the devs added a full list of all the factors for each difficulty setting, as well as the option to change them individually.

The combat in those games was not challenging. Maybe from a mechanics standpoint, but I don't see what's fun about constant bump pausing or quick buffing everyone before a combat begins so you can just walk over the enemies

Can you elaborate? I haven't played them yet, but i'm interested in them.

>people can’t mentally understand that what’s happening on screen is an abstraction

>this character standing perfectly still and getting hit by a sword is actually representing the character dodging the sword
>what? animations? what do you think this is, a visual medium?

>The combat in those games was not challenging

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>being instantly gimped due rng
>challenge

It’s really fucking complicated rules, the visual is never going to match up exactly. PF does have a dodge animation but it’s not always gonna be enough.

what, you think this shit is easy?

based as fuck

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5 GREATER DEMONS
3 LVL 8 NINJAS
4 NIGHTSTALKERS
3 OGRE LORDS
AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE

>not a single mention of based Spiderweb Software RPGs

Kingmaker is a loading simulator

Exile / Avernum's pretty radical.

"challenge" and "hard" are not synonyms, user

their gameplay is worse than no gameplay at all

they all see sorta hard to get into because of how... antiquated they feel?

But I've always meant to try one - what's a good starting point? I think I have most of them on steam already.

I remember doing some random shit in the shareware versions of some Avernums before I even knew English

Look, I never claimed these were the most hardcore games of all time, but they can be pretty challenging.

instantly losing to an ambush has nothing to do with the concept of challenge

They haven't progressed much mechanically.

Other games offer more expressive roleplaying even if those are illusory/linear experiences.
Even something with a dumb senseless story like Bioshock Infinite feels like a more realized and immersive experience.

Western roleplaying is about broadness of freedom and choice, but it hasn't really increased the way players can do this while other genres have strengthened other mechanical narrative aspects.

I want to walk into a town and get naturally drawn into a sidequest because its interesting, not flip through menus and see a big quest indicator appear on my HUD.

Divinity 2 made some nice strides in the interactivity of the environments and its natural properties.

they're an ipad-tier degeneration of the """C"""RPG genre

they're basically a choose your own adventure book, the gameplay is so shallow and superfluous. it's like they took an RPG that had been dumbed-down for uninterested 12 year olds to play the pen & paper version of it and just translated that to a computer without realizing that the *only* appeal of a game that shallow is the open-ended role-playing.
I guess you could argue the same applies to the earlier infinity engine titles, but at least they have the excuse of being 20+ years old at this point. and they were still far more complex and had far more engaging gameplay than the shadowrun games. and I write that with the necessary implication that most people think their gameplay sucks

>not Witcher
You AAA kiddies are why this industry is shit

its a punishment for not mapping out the dungeon correctly and spending too much time in it

What rpgs would you recommend where you feel there are definite consequences to your decision? Much appreciated, user!

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>play a game too long
>it punishes you
more games should do it

Thank you.

I agree. We need to do something about video game addiction.

Play the OG trilogy.
Avernum 1, 2 and 3. And there was also blades of Avernum, which has an editor that lets you create your own campaigns.

All in all, they get pretty good as you progress, and some parts (like the castle full of expanding fire or the slime pit in 3) are very challenging.

people don't understand that the game is intended to be played multiple times before building a versatile character. while the game is pretty clear that you should not build a jack of all trades the first time through, the mandatory floor for most abilities is pretty severe and makes longform experimentation a pain in the ass. there is very little wiggle room in how you spend your SP.

it'd be greatly improved if finishing a run permanently revealed all thresholds required for the skill checks you passed during the run. it would give players a much better idea of what is and isn't possible with their build and make optimizing a more transparent, straightforward process for people who have already taken the time to play through the game. on the flipside, it preserves the mystery and challenge of running through any quest or dungeon the first time through.

The trade 3D rise.

lmao

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I really love that whenever this image is brought up in shitposting threads where retards talk about how RPGs are babbymode because they're not action games, the salt flows in rivers