Why is it okay to have Stalin as a civ leader but not Hitler?

Why is it okay to have Mao as a civ leader but not Hitler?

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Because Stalin didn't scare the world banking powers or attack God's chosen people, and when he did they killed him.

Nazis and Commies were allies at the beginning for a reason, after all.

you mean the jew ?

Because (((they))) dont want you to know that hitler was a jew so they revoked his protection

Man name Dung like him, and give to you cheap shit for gold and missile.

I wanted 20 bucks for my likeness but they wouldn't go higher than 15

he lost after a lifetime of winning

Stalin only killed his own people and they respected him for it, same as Putin now.
Even tho Russian acknowledged that Stalin killed 10 mln of russians there are still monuments of him everywhere, same as Lenin, crazy country of cuckolds.

Civ IV quote on Communism:

>"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

Civ IV quote on Fascism:

>"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one."

Hmm...

>and they respected him for it
huh?

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Everyone LOVED Stalin during ussr time, and still old people saying things like he won the war and he built the whole country, when he died everyone cried, but at that time already people knew that 8mln ppl died in gulags in 1937

jews

Hitler is still relevant

napoleon was a good guy

because Hitler lost and by his own logic is fucking worthless

Yeah I guess the North Koreans really love and revere Kim Jong Un because of statues!

>didn't attack God's chosen people
lol what, he's the literal architect of purges that almost completely eradicated the Jews (they were old-school communists, and thus competition for the nation's leadership positions) from the Party and replaced them with Georgians, and he's responsible for large-scale resettlement to Jewish Autonomous Area, basically shipping people to taiga with next to nothing to eat, wear or build with. And then there's the "doctors' case" his bootlickers shammed up.

>Stalin didn't scare the world banking powers
That, on the other hand, is correct - Stalin was willing to play ball and use foreign currencies, unlike Trotsky who knew the capitalist states would corrupt an insulated socialist nation into state capitalism, which had eventually happened and netted Stalin tzar-like amount of power and wealth at the expense of the Soviet people who went from owning and managing their house and workplace to being owned and managed by the state.

i dont get it... why the tree sparrow

They had a non aggression treaty. They weren’t allies.

>Americans are the most reactive to this and their participation was only near the end.
I get when people say this about WWI (the war started in 1914, the US joined in 1917, and then the war ended the next year) but for WWII the US was not only in for the majority of the conflict (the war started in 1939, the US joined at the end of 1941, and the war ended 3.5 years later in 1945) they were running critical supplies to the allies and altering the outcome well before their entry. Hell the US joined the war a mere six months after the Soviets and yet nobody says shit about them being late to the party (granted the Soviets helped kick off the fight before fucking off for nearly two years to fight some Finns in a then-unrelated war).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

>removing old art because you butthurt over the depiction
bunch of sissies in burgerstan

Same can be said about Adolf

look up "four pests campaign"
basically he genocided sparrows cos they were eating grain seeds and fruit and called them "public animals of capitalism" (no joke)

>lost WWI
Nice try

>Everyone LOVED Stalin during ussr time
Simply not true. While the amount of people that came to dislike him increased steadily as the extent of his deeds were exposed after his death, plenty of people knew well that they lived in a brutal dictatorship. The military didn't like him. Doctors didn't like him. artists didn't like him. Educated men didn't like him.Theists CERTAINLY didn't like him, and the millions of people that starved because of his rabid industrial expansion and hoarding of grain from the country side, or those worked to death in Gulags, didn't like him. There were, of course, fanatics. Some even in Stalin's inner circle, like Yacheslav Molotov, who was so delusional that he gladly saw his wife imprisoned (Though he thought her killed) when Stalin ordered it (and the wife herself, in fact, was happy to be sent off because it was Stalin's order)
Many of his subjects were also happy to see the Germans invade, because they were sick of Stalin's shit. Unfortunately, the Nazi doctrine didn't allow for cooperation with said Slavs, which meant that they had to flock to Stalin as the father of the nation. So, you're right to say that in the middle of WW2, the country rallied behind him, but don't tell me that everyone LOVED him during the Soviet Union

A war merchant is not a combatant. You don't receive participation trophies for that. And why not mention that you traded with hitler too beforehand? It's onesided circlejerking always.

>Everyone LOVED Stalin during ussr time
Nigga, even Lenin warned people of him, and tried to demand that Stalin's not let into power after his death.

>Hell the US joined the war a mere six months after the Soviets and yet nobody says shit about them being late to the party (granted the Soviets helped kick off the fight before fucking off for nearly two years to fight some Finns in a then-unrelated war).
That's because the Soviets weren't a part of the Western world, and had treaties with Germany, so their help wasn't really as expected as America's

>everyone
Only the stupid people and hereditary bootlickers. Everyone else knew that Stalin ruined the chances of USSR overtaking the West when he killed every single competent officer in the country so that they wouldn't make his stupidity look comparatively bad.

Russia is highly stratified. The elite controls the media and can concoct any myth it wants, and make it omnipresent enough to get through to the thickest peasant. When Stalin died and Khrushev started fighting his underlings for the General Secretary position, he has easily mobilized the people against the blood-soaked Fuhrer Stalin and rapist pedo (((Beriya))). His allies controlled the information dissemination, so his truth became the only truth as far as an average citizen is concerned. And in the same fashion, honest hard-working communists became alcoholic bourgeois parasites back when Stalin was purging them - a newspaper called "Truth" would come out and whatever was in it was taken as truth. Not because it was believed, but because the consequences of not believing it make it not worth it.

TL;DR Stalin's fans live in a surrogate reality, just like North Koreans or chinks or Germans between 1942 and summer of 1944

>Source: My ass

what do you mean? Stalin killed more than Hitler, so he won the competition

fpbp

As an ornithologist and bird lover this disturbs me greatly

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>france rolled over
>couldn't breach england
>attacked weak european neutral states to guarantee they're gonna be on his side
>poland was a co-op with the USSR
>got ran out of north africa
>decisively lost in the east to the soviets
>greece was a pyrrhic victory
>lost control of the atlantic
guy has nothing on napoleon "I'm gonna end austria's whole career" bonaparte.

Soviets had treaties with france to help each other the moment germany attacks. The fuck is your education? The whole german problem of multiple frontlines resulted from that. They couldn't start a war with soviets without having also to fight the french so they bumrushed them first.

How ironic. You want me to source every facet of these claims? Do you realize how long that will take? Where exactly is YOUR source, buddy?

Assorted Slavs and Hungarian Jews don't count, did you also know Trotsky was a British psyop?

because the game is made by commies

>bird lover

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How? The dude spent most of his life losing his only victory was becoming fuhrer and wrecking half of Europe

if the nazis were gays and trannies, why do the liberals hate them
why are liberals so homo-/transphobic

Stalin lifted countless millions of people out of poverty, illiteracy, disease, and serfdom. Hitler started a war that killed countless millions and left his country in ruins. Durrrrr why is the hero who's still fondly remembered in his own country in a game??????

did you know you had something in your asshole /pol/tard?

Hitler is widely known to be an evil sonnavabitch because of the proliferation of allied propaganda. It was such an effective marketing campaign that it basically turned Hitler into a real world equivalent of Voldemort. Literally every western school child is taught about Hitler, and his antics are spun into myth.

Stalin is lesser known for the same reason. Russian propaganda is the best in the world, and they have a knack for infiltrating and influencing popular media.

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lol look at the death count of Mao bro

>Soviets had treaties with france to help each other the moment germany attacks. The fuck is your education? The whole german problem of multiple frontlines resulted from that.
wot? The double frontlines happened because Germany broke their non-aggression pack with Stalin by invading. And though Stalin had foreseen this, he did not expect it to come so soon. He even refused to believe the initial reports of invasion. With that said, I have actually never heard of the Soviet-French treaty, so thank you for bringing it up. At any rate, the Soviets weren't a part of the western world, and it was clear in the beginning stages of WW2 that they weren't exactly allies of anyone than themselves

Because one was in power for decades and the other barely lasted one.

WW2 ended over 70 years ago . get over it.
if you are that butthurt, just download a mod.

Because Stalin actually had a lot of respectable accomplishments, was characterized, even by his enemies, as a modest and disciplined man, did more for the progress of socialism than basically any other person in history excluding Marx himself, turn Russia into a world power during the aftermath of a civil war, a devastating famine and the invasion of a fascist death cult aiming to enslave the entire slavic race and died as a hero to his people and communists all over the world.

>putting on a dress for mad lolz
vs
>wearing a dress and insisting you're a real girl and you must respect my pronouns shitlord

>giving a shit about humans
dude, there are less Eurasian Tree Sparrows in the world than there are damn Chinese

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>WW2 ended over 70 years ago . get over it.
Shouldn't that be directed at the people that include Stalin but not Hitler?

>70 year
Try 35 year bruv

i am talking about everyone. It is beyond me why people still get sensitive about WW2, it will be quite hilarious when we are in the year 2045 and people still get butthurt over who won and who lost. Fucking shit we have way worse problems to fix than to care about what my grandfather feels about a certain leader.

Because they don't want to lose their Russian users

>and wrecking half of Europe
And almost wrecking Russia. Both feats are pretty cool, don't you think?

Oh, fair enough

I watched Das Boot recently and I was wondering about this guy.

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Russian gamers mostly pirate games

The cossacks fucking hated his guts.

This. Stalin was a monster, but at least he was a competent monster.

people who love animals over people are animals themselves

>died as a hero to his people
How does it feel to blindly believe archival soviet propaganda reels?

Having my entire family and their relatives live during that time and their testimony, at least. Not gonna try to prove or disprove anything, its a waste of time here on Yea Forums. What you need to know is delta of quality of life at the beginning and end of Stalin rule, delta in population even with several famines and most devastation war in history of humanity. The delta is positive and much bigger than ever before in history of Russia. Such successes do not happen by accident or because of Stalin being insane like your """history""" books present it.

Because Stalin was the greatest leader of the 20th century

>"He (Stalin) is regarded as a consistently clean living man, modest, restrained, purposeful, a man of single-track thinking, directed his thoughts and intentions of communism and the rise of the proletariat is ... He's a clever sense of humor. And a Great Spirit. Sharp, pervasive smart and above all, I feel it wise. If you can imagine yourself a personality that leverage the full opposite of being in all things, what the rabid famous Stalin opponents could devise, then you have a picture this man "
(JE Davis, "The US ambassador to Moscow" 1943, p 144 u. 276)

>"He was an outstanding personality who, impressed in our rough time, in the period in which his life was. Stalin was an exceptionally energetic, well-read and very strong-willed man, fierce, rugged, relentlessly in the matter, as in conversation, which even I, who grew up in the English Parliament couldn't oppose nothing ... In his works one could feel a gigantic force. Stalin's power was so great that he does not know a same among the leaders of all nations and ages ... The people could not resist his influence. When he entered the room the Yalta Conference, we collected all of us, literally as if on command. And, strange as it is, we laid hands on our sides. Stalin had a profound, thorough and logical mind. He was an unsurpassed master is to find a way out of difficult moments in the most hopeless situation ... He was a man who destroyed his enemy with the hands of his enemies, so us, which he called openly imperialists, forced to fight against imperialists. He took over the Russia of the hook plow and left it in the possession of nuclear weapons. "
(Winston Churchill, Stalin)

>"This man can act. He always has a clear goal in mind. Working with him is a pleasure. There is no trickiness with him. He sets out the question, he wants to discuss, and of which more will be deviated in any way. "
(Roosevelt, President of the United States of America)

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Because the k*kes approve of Stalin.

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They made contracts straight after WW1 to help each other in case of a german attack. I believe England was actually also in it. Don't remember the name. That was ~9th or 10th grade history.

>Because Stalin actually had a lot of respectable accomplishments
Holy revisionist, Batman!
Even people in post-Soviet states who preferred the USSR will tell you that Stalin was shit.

Cutting your dick off is the ultimate prank desu

I never said I "love" animals more than people, but you must seriously be kidding yourself if actually care about all these dead chinese before you were fucking born. Dude... get real

>games are made mostly for the western world
>western world really doesn’t care about Russians, they know that Stalin killed tons of people, but because the victims are East Europeans or Russians, it’s just too distant for people in the west to care about
>on the other hand, Hitler plunged Europe into war and ended up scorching and killing millions right in the center of Western Europe, also inflicting casualties in the Anglo-American cultural sphere
It’s not really any more complicated than that, people just usually aren’t good at caring about stuff that has happened in distant lands (or too far in past, see people celebrating conquest-hungry madmen and murderers because they can’t connect with their victims due to temporal distance), and most mass murdering dictators have reigned outside the inner regions of the west.

I mean, if we want to look at worst atrocities per capita, Pol Pot is far worse than Hitler, Stalin or Mao, but he’s rarely discussed because Cambodia just isn’t very relevant to people living in USA or Europe.

Bolshevists were jewish. That's why they aren't liked much by slaws.

We're talking about Chinese here.

>stalin killed 1000 billions how can you have him as a civ leader???

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80 million

>smoloko
KEK
Say hi to Barashkov and his coproarmy.

Because civ has a "no gay babies allowed" policy, and hitler is clearly a gay baby.

Fuck off tankie

>80 million

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>no you're the sóy! *sips onions*

It's also that outside of certain circles anyway, nobody has anything good to say about Pol Pot or Hitler. Stalin was a real piece of shit too, but he tends to be treated as a more mixed figure. Helps that his government didn't plunge all of Europe and as a result the planet into one of the bloodiest conflicts in human history, as low praise as that may be.

>but at least he was a competent monster.
No, he certainly was not. He purged all the competent military command of WW1 out of pure paranoia and a inferiority-complex, which resulted in them getting their asses fucked when Germany invaded. He did the same with anyone close to him, because he was afraid of their competence, and he himself had a knack for backstabbing so he was naturally afraid of it. Stalin starved his people and devastated the country side by his forced industrial conversion (Which, to be fair, did help the Soviets by the time Hitler came knocking) And he was an awful military general. He did do some smart things, like reestablishing the Church when things looked dire in WW2, and appearing strong for his people, but he wasn't really all that competent. He was good at being a tyrant, though

Not true. Both sides of the Russian Civil War had Jewish members. There were some prominent Jews in the Bolshevik leadership but that was for the same reason that a theoretical communist uprising in America would have a lot of black members. Because they're part of a minority group that feel like the current system isn't treating them fairly.

Because Germany lost the war, so Germany's enemies demonize Germany and Hitler as much as possible and write their history for them.

Napoleon was a manlet faggot with microdick
He should have been executed

Nice selfie.

we wouldn't have as much problems in this world if Hitler had won the war.

read hoxha you liberal

That the general mentality we all have. Nobody gives a fuck if you burn down your house as long as it doesn't catch over to our own. Fuck most like self-destructive people because then they don't have to compete.

Yeah those tens of millions of people just disappeared. Nothing strange there. Of course quality of life gets better. You aren't sharing resources with the dead. I imagine you would feel a bit different if you were targeted. Stalin was a butcher. It's well documented and acknowledged.

After 150 or so years, no one cares anymore about how good or bad you were.

It's balanced out by letting us play the best civilisation: Australia.

How does criticizing Stalin make me a liberal?

Chinese are fucking retarded I swear

Becasue he was one of the """good""" guys that fought against le ebul nadsis, gets a free pass.

If the Cold War had escalated and the USA and the Soviet Union went to war and the USA had won (and they would have, despite what delusional sovietboos will tell you), he'd be as reviled as Hitler.

History is written by the winners.

They invaded Poland together, you moron. American education at it's finest.

once great comrade stalin personally ensured a bunch of people waiting for a bus in the rain got driven home. He waited in the rain with them as his driver came back and forth picking up a few of them and driving them home

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Because Hitler and the nazis did fuckall that was beneficial (in the long run) for Germany.

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>Americans are the most reactive to this
Try saying that Hitler was a good guy in Russia or Poland

they killed 6 million jews

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its something liberals do

>almost wrecking Russia
The USSR was far from being defeated by the Germans.

Bullshit. You think the people that were a part of the great purges loved Stalin? Do you think all the educated people loved Stalin? Do you think the peasants that died by his industrial needs, or the people (children included) that were sent to Gulags at the merest infraction, or even the perception of it, so as to garner more free labor and disposing of people he thought were undermining him? But, of course, the history books and official Soviet records lie (records that are estimated to be lacking in the proper amount)
For God's sake, even one of Stalin's daughters defected to the West, and condemned his actions

Imagine actually thinking this

That's backwards, but sure.. lol

People love effect, but hate thinking about cause. Same shit with how you spend centuries essentially forcing a specific group to be bankers because you can't do it yourself for religious reasons, semi-regularly take their stuff, then act like it's their fault they're all bankers and worried about losing their money.

Not western Liberals

>A war merchant is not a combatant.
Indeed, but I mentioned it because it's still a form of participation that was significant to the outcome of the war, and only as a supporting argument to the main point about the time scale.
>And why not mention that you traded with Hitler too beforehand?
Because the US was clearly biased towards helping the Commonwealth, trade with Nazi Germany was small potatoes compared to the food, infrastructure, and weapon shipments directed towards the British Isles (and later the Soviet Union) as part of lend-lease (which Germany got no part of). On top of that the US and UK were already collaborating in war planning before the US's official entry into the war, and with US public opinion of Germany already in the negative FDR just had to wait for Germany to fuck up enough to get the isolationists out of the way so he could back up his buddy Churchill (the obvious irony, of course, being that Japan fucked up first, though you could argue it's still Germany's mistake for allying with Japan in the first place).

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Soviet_Treaty_of_Mutual_Assistance
1935 isn't exactly right after WWI, and ultimately it was a pointless gesture that was nullified by the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. After all, what's the point of a mutual assistance treaty if the other party has a nonaggression pact with the mutual enemy?

You mean 12 million

Show me a point where the USSR was even remotely threatened to be defeated.

After the initial German invasion, Soviet soldiers were desserting en mass to the Nazis, while civilians greeted them as liberators. As soon as the front got close, local insurrections against the Communist regime would start. It was only because of the Germans' insane racial ideology that the Soviet people started resisting.

>no trickiness to him
Didn't Stalin regularly betray his cronies and friends for the smallest reasons?

>le 6 million
In the eyes of a normal person, genocide is a terrible crime.
In the eyes of a /pol/tard, the Holocaust, if anything, made (((them))) even stronger.
So either way, no.

>as far from being defeated by the Germans.
Don't be facetious. Germany made great progress with their Blitzkrieg stratergy, and ended up a few kilometers from Moscow where Stalin was still situated. Hitler's insistence on securing oil instead of advancing was part of the reason that everything became fucked. German high command insisted on advancing with the full force of the army, but Hitler decided to split them up. Also, had Germany possessed the proper tools and clothing for a winter war, they would've fared even better

when great comrade stalin died, he owned only a few hats, a couple sets of clothing, and one pair of boots. In addition he had many books and papers. This is all he possessed.

The party on several occasions tried to award him hero of the soviet union, which he refused to accept every time on the grounds that he never fought on the front line
Stalin wanted to retire but they wouldn't let him

Anything bad you read about stalin was written by khrushchevites and revisionists, only good things you read are true. Stalin is the one human in all of history where such blanket statements can be made while being true.

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Actually they were close, imagine what would happen if USSR didnt recieve and lend lease from the US

He was slighty taller than the average person at the time
You fell for british propaganda, fool

Did you respond to the wrong post?

>Stalin lifted countless millions of people out of poverty, illiteracy, disease, and serfdom.
And killed them at the same time

Jews gonna jew. What else is new in America?

you forget his private Harem of dancers/musicans

>No, he certainly was not. He purged all the competent military command of WW1 out of pure paranoia and a inferiority-complex
hate to burst your parade but this is not out of pure paranoia or inferiority complex, this is a centuries, millenia-old adage of kings, despots and absolute monarchs. It's been practiced by most kings or despots throughout history, and almost all dictators of the modern world. the removal of potential rivals and competent officials/generals & the dumbing down of the military as a whole is literally step 1 in the dictator's security manual, it's done as a measure to prevent coups.

Hitler was right there, though the biggest problem was the split. Moscow is worthless, Napoleon learned that the hard way. They just torch it and fuck off. But Germany desperately needed oil.

>Moscow
See, there is your problem. Russia lost its capital numerous times in its history in various wars (e.g. Napoleonic Wars), but they still didn't lose.
>Hitler's insistence on securing oil instead of advancing was part of the reason that everything became fucked.
Hitler was on a strategic level very competent, as he understood the importance of resources and logistics. His Generals were only so dumb to believe that capturing a country's capital would lead to victory of an enemy, because they are strategically illiterate.

1941-42? Things were very grim for the Soviets when the Germans first launched operation Barbarossa. They were forced to execute officers who would use the medieval tactics of retreating and setting your own farms ablaze. Red army was in shambles for a long period.

>the USA had won
The US wouldn't stand a chance against Russia and China together

They especially do.
No. All slander against stalin is the result of kruschev wanting to make everyone hate him so he could start doing his gay touchy feely office party bullshit with rainbows and 'new ideas'.

Reading hoxhas accounts of the kremlin before and after stalin would make you cry, Its like it was turned into bioware headquarters

reminder that Stalin was a 5'5'' manlet

>had Germany possessed the proper tools and clothing for a winter war
They had the equipment, but the logistics of the Wehrmacht was atrocious. They relied on horses throughout the entire war.

Death of asians are just statistics
Hitler was an european which makes him extra vile

Well russians themselves actually have Stalin nostalgia and Stalin never went so far as to officially have camps dedicated to killing people. It was hard work yeah, and it WOULD kill you with odds sometimes being very high but there were people who evntually got released.

I'm going to bypass the entire camps thing now and just mention that aside from the camps, the german SS had squads attached to the army and they just systematically shot civilian men women and children behind enemy lines and its recorded in the books that at least 2 million people were killed this way by the Einsatzgruppen. In Poland, we have an after action report, thick as a whole book and bound with leather that describes step by step Aktion Reinhard in easter Poland. This might have racked up as much as another 2 million.

So now, without ever even mentioning Auschwitz I've gone as high as 4 million civilians killed. There is a very good reason there are 0 Holocaust deniers in Poland.

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Oy vey, is this the part where we are supposed to remember the 6 gorillion?

>Stalin never went so far as to officially have camps dedicated to killing people
Neither did Hitler

They lacked proper winter clothing and oils for their vehicles and tanks

USSR lost a lot of men aged aged 20-30. You can even see the effect to this day, Russias population pyramid goes in "waves" because a generation never got to have children, and those children that never was born never got to have any children and so on.

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why is it okay to have Marie as a civ leader, but not Hitler?

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China and Russia were at each others throats during the cold war retard.

>0 Holocaust deniers in Poland.

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lend lease did almost nothing. the USSR was outproducing germany in all things at all stages of the war, guns, tanks, munitions, etc. except for a short period when germany was producing more aircraft.

The actions of the ussr during the german invasion come down to two elements.
1. It did catch them by surprise
2. they were employing deep battle doctrine and following the planned defensive outline drawn up in the event of invasion. They were using their large land and the harsh conditions to their advantage while fighting a delaying action attacking logistical lines and massing for the counter attack, just as their theorists planned.

>They especially do.
No? Western liberals have become socialistic, and worship the hammer and sickle. I have no idea what manner of liberals you've been associating with. Keep in mind that I'm talking mostly America

>Hitler was a terrible leader and we shouldn't try Fascism again
the small lie
>Hitler was the worst person who ever existed, he killed millions of innocent jews using gas, and anyone who ever thinks about racial autonomy again is literally hitler and should be killed as a child in their crib!
the big lie.

>There is a very good reason there are 0 Holocaust deniers in Poland
Because it's a literal crime?

Why is it okay to have coom as a cive leader, but not Hitler?

6 bazinga

>158 replies
>still no argument why Hitler should be in Civ IV
Way to prove a point, /pol/.

You're retarded if you think everything said about stalin is empty slander.

I'm just saying, after 12 years of Hitler Germany lost a good chunk of land, was occupied, split up, and in rubble, the reputation tarnished for decades.
As far as net leadership effectiveness goes, Hitler sucked ass.

>Moslems criticizes Jews
>Look at this goy lol
>White people criticize Jews
>OH VEY SHUT HIM DOWN
I still don't understand this. Aren't moslems supposed to be the violent ones?

>he believes the shitty lend lease meme
reminder that, statistically, 70% of all lend lease, and 95% of lend lease that mattered (steel and raw materials) arrived after stalingrad, after the war was already decided against germany.

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commies
>stalin didnt kill anyone, it's all CIA propaganda
also commies
>kulaks deserved it, he didnt kill enough

Autobahn?

>Hitler was on a strategic level very competent, as he understood the importance of resources and logistics
Then the Wehrmacht would not have had the problems that they did when winter rolled around.
>His Generals were only so dumb to believe that capturing a country's capital would lead to victory of an enemy, because they are strategically illiterate.
While this is true, Hitler split up the army at a time where it was not wise to do so, and halted the advance further inland. This turned out to be devastating in the long run, because what the Soviets needed was time, and Hitler gave it to them. Both Stalin and his command staff were getting increasingly nervous. One of his generals even went off on him, calling him stupid for having purged all the competent generals. Stalin uncharacteristically did not execute the man for this, which should tell you how dire things looked

The entire soviet strategy was to stretch out germany so they could attack their logistics.

The USSR developed deep battle doctrine. The foundational text of which is still classified to this day, but elements of it such as the operational level of combat were revolutionary and still form the basis of modern war thinking. (before this only tactical and strategic levels were considered).

But the general gist of deep battle is you set up conditions to rush several hundred KM behind enemy lines and attack their logistics. You make the opening by attacking every position at once to probe it. This prevents the common fluid defense strategy of the germans which was basically to hold forces in reserve and deploy them to reinforce locations under enemy attack. The soviets just attacked everywhere lightly and waited for the germans to commit these forces then broke through where ever was weak, even pulling some of the attacks from other locations off the battle to reinforce the main push, then instead of flanking the enemy defensive lines or even bothering to try and reclaim land, they went straight back, as deep as they could.
Basically in rts terms they went straight for the economy.
It worked, hitler thought the invasion would be fast.
The idea that the soviets didnt know what they were doing is another lie, its entirely mischaracterized.

Imagine getting thrown in jail for denying that the holocaust happened, but then getting off scot-free for denying that the gulags happened.

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The construction of the Autobahns started in the 1921, more than a decade before the Nazis came into power. In fact, the term "Autobahn" was coined in 1929.

the german sucker punch effect wore out 6 months in. "capturing moscow" is a meme and wouldn't have decided anything and they couldn't even pull that off. the soviets established a hard frontline with the germies already by 1942 even with millions of their troops being posted for the majority of the war in far eastern siberia along the khalkin gol.

>Stalin never went so far as to officially have camps dedicated to killing people
But he did make camps where he would work people to death. Camps that people were sent off to willy nilly at Stalin's behest, because he needed the labor for his industrial dreams

You mean 20 million

Russians rode to Berlin in American trucks and Stalin was begging for a second front. This "Russia won WW2" is a dumb ass meme.

>Western liberals have become socialistic
Firstly, no they dont. They think socialism is voting to raise taxes. This is not socialism.
Secondly, the ones who dress up as communists are just larping radlibs, they are not communists.
Thirdly, even the aforementioned larping radlibs, and the aforementioned aforementioned 'socialists', take special care to continue condemning stalin.
Fourth, the majority of the number of people who might at least have some possible claim to being some kind of marxist, are trots, and thus do not like stalin.
You will be hard pressed to find someone supporting stalin in this environment.

Hitler was one of the worst people who have ever existed
amongst all other major leaders

>The USSR developed deep battle doctrine
not sure what this has to do with your strategic warfare essay since it is tactical-level and is not a whole new invention on it's own, but rather a development of 19th century corps attack postures.

You retards do know that Stalin was leader of the Soviet Union for like 30 years and focusing on WW2 only is extremely stupid?

You mean 60 gorillion

The eastern front was in scale much larger than the western front, and clearly decided by the time the western front was even opened.

Don't you have an angry CoH2 review to write?

>Stalin was begging for a second front
And yet the Soviets dealt with 80% of the entire German military by themselves.

It's not so much the capturing of Moscow that was important, but rather the continued push through Russia. Hitler's generals urged him to continue the assault and not split up the army. By halting the advance, Hitler gave the Soviets the time they needed to mount proper defenses, and also made sure that the Germans were sitting pretty, waiting for winter to fuck them

Hardly.

>muh trucks
kill yourself goblino. if russia didn't get GMC trucks to drive to berlin with stalin would've diverted 5% of tank/aircraft steel allocation to the production of a few million GAZ trucks.
Imagine being an amerimutt and your only remaining leverage with lend lease is providing the soviets with trucks so they could wrap up a finished war from the bed of a truck instead of the back of a tank.

Stalin's actions hardly increased in benevolence after the war

Katyn is more of a hot-button denial issue than gulags

t. el atrocidad

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The normandy landings were over a year after the battle of stalingrad concluded and turned the front around. And nothing on the west reached the scale of millions. The battle of Kursk by itself was larger than most wars.

You know, both of us have lack any numbers on the matter, so we can't really speak to it

Because Hitler as a person never existed. The Nazis created Adolf Hitler as a figurehead of their movement and later as a scapegoat that "tricked" an entire nation.
Note how different Hitler looks in every photo and video because he was played by different actors.
Also wondering how he "miraculously" survived all these assassination attempts? Because you cannot kill a person that does not exist and if anything, the nazis took these attempts to reinforce their propaganda.

>let's blame our problems on a dead man who lost the war
blame it on your shitty politicians, also I heard Americans have guns so that they can protect the constitution when something goes wrong. It is high time that you show us the prowess of freedom.

so dumb nazis like OP wont use it to larp their wet natsoc dreams

Now you are either just baiting or deliberately retarded.

based

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Imagine not being an American and having your only responses be 'mutt' or 'goblino'.

Is this a joke?

why are nazis so fucking cool?

You're confusing a few groups here.
Modern western democratic socialists are predominantly liberal. Most of them are stupid and believe they are campaigning for a social democracy instead, which isn't the same thing.
Modern liberals also include Antifa, which is comprised of Anarcho-terrists, e.g black bloc.

Lend-lease did nothing by your estimation because you only count direct combat gear. Most of the US-Soviet trade was not in tanks and guns but in food, locomotives, trucks, telegraph wire, and raw material. It's by extensively using American logistical support that the Soviets were able to focus their production on tanks and aircraft, which was generally better than using American guns and tanks because they wouldn't have to run two different ammo supply chains (one American, one Soviet) and instead focus entirely on Soviet ammo.
>deep battle
Most of the proponents of this strategy were either dead or in gulags by Operation Barbarossa, it wasn't until later when Stalin realized he needed everyone on the field that these theories were finally put into practice just in time for the battle of Moscow. Before then it was just a disorganized retreat with mass surrenders and burning infrastructure, and while that certainly still slowed the Germans down, it wasn't out of strategic brilliance but just plain desperation. The genius-level shit wouldn't really kick in until 1942.

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Gauranteed in 200 years people will talk about Hitler the same way they talk about Napoleon

Hitler exterminated millions of slavs. That is based

Wait a couple of decades until the last """veteran""" dies so we can uncover the lies of the the fabricated conflict known as """World War 2""".

the soviets developed an entire logistical and operational system to support this
it was ingrained in their officers in school such that its what naturally occurred even when not planned in a more crude fashion

In truth it was never fully executed during this time. The manchurian campaign at the end of ww2 being the only real example of it all coming together by the book.

Ah yes, another one of those things that totally happened

Because communism is cool and good and Stalin did nothing wrong

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>85% of the Lend-Lease supplies arrived after January 1943, after the Battle of Stalingrad. At this time, the Soviet victory was clear. The Lend-Lease came too late to be the decisive factor in the Soviet victory, but it increased the speed with which the German Army was defeated

>Lend-Lease aid was slow to arrive. During the most crucial period of the war on the Eastern Front it remained little more than a trickle. Only following the Battle of Stalingrad (August 19, 1942-February 2, 1943), when the Soviet Union’s eventual victory seemed assured, did American aid began to arrive on a significant scale – 85% of the supplies arrived after the beginning of 1943. Although the vast majority of the Red Army’s best aircraft, tanks, guns and ammunition continued to be manufactured in the Soviet Union, its mobility and communications, in particular, came to rely on Lend-Lease.

>On June 1st 1941 USSR had 25932 tanks and howitzers, 6060 were produced by 31st of December, 1941. 31992 vehicles total. Approximately 20,5K was lost by the end of the year. That means 11,5K tanks left. In 1941 the USSR received 361 tanks, all from Britain, this was approximately 1% of the soviet tank forces on the eve of the battle of Moscow, and none of them took part in the battle.

a comparison between Lend Lease aid/arrival products and materials VS Soviet production
Lend Lease / Russian product (1941–1945)

Aircraft: 14,795/134,100
tanks: 7,056/102,800
artillery cannons: 8,218/825,200
oil: 2,670,000/110,600,000 (tons)
steel: 1,500,000/39,680,000 (tons)
food: 733,000/64,121,000 (tons)

During the war, Soviet factories produced more than 29.1 million small arms of all major types, while only 152,000 small arms (0.5% of the total) were manufactured by American, British, and Canadian plants. Looking at all types of artillery systems of all calibers we see a similar picture – 647,600 Soviet weapons and mortars vs. 9,400 of foreign origin, representing less than 1.5% of the total.

They can be handwaved away with either "the nations technically lacked a government" or "they resisted by not immediately surrendering to us"

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Arguably Stalin did as well though not as directly (the Holodomor).

The only joke is that you believe otherwise just because an enemy of stalin told you so.

You forgot "communism hasn't been tested".

why it surprises you commies say the same thing about gulags than altright says about concentration camps, it is all about how the media lied.

>NNNNNOOOOO HE KILLED 200 THOUSAND MILLION TRILLIONS OF PEOPLE, HOW CAN YOU LIKE STALIN???

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Where is the source?

From the onset of the war until the end of 1941, the Red Army received 1.76 million rifles, automatic weapons, and machine guns, 53,700 artillery and mortars, 5,400 tanks, and 8,200 warplanes. Of these, our allies in the anti-Hitler coalition supplied only 82 artillery weapons (0.15%), 648 tanks (12.14%), and 915 airplanes (10.26%). In addition, much of the military equipment that was sent – in particular, 115 of the 466 tanks manufactured in the UK – did not even make it to the front in the first year of the war.

If we convert these shipments of arms and military equipment into their monetary equivalent, then, according to the well-known historian Mikhail Frolov, DSc (Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voina 1941-1945 v Nemetskoi Istoriografii.[Great Patriotic War 1941-1945 in German historiography], St. Petersburg: 1994), “up until the end of 1941 – the most difficult period for the Soviet state – under the Lend-Lease Act, the US sent the USSR materials worth $545,000, out of the $741 million worth of supplies shipped to all the countries that were part of the anti-Hitler coalition. This means that during this extraordinarily difficult period, less than 0.1% of America’s aid went to the Soviet Union.

The numbers are less grim for other types of weapons: the ratio of domestic vs. allied tanks and self-propelled artillery was, respectively, 132,800 vs. 11,900 (8.96%), and for combat aircraft – 140,500 vs. 18,300 (13%).

Out of the almost $46 billion that was spent on all lend-lease aid, the US allocated only $9.1 billion, i.e., only a little more than 20% of the funds, to the Red Army, which defeated the vast majority of the divisions from Germany and her military satellites.

orientalreview.org/2015/05/12/wwii-lend-lease-was-the-us-aid-helpful-enough-i/
notevenpast.org/lend-lease/

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Nice aluminum on your hat friend.

Lend-Lease allowed the Soviets to use my tankfu, the Sherman.
So it was important after all.

loud lefties are mostly young unemployed who want more gibs because they ain't getting shit any other way. Mileage might vary but they did surveys on demonstrations and vast majority fit into that.

The US and the UK were actively involved in the fighting in Europe from 1943 onward, they faced some 40 percent of the German army and 50 percent of the German airforce. Stalingrad was not the turning point of the war, Germany went on to beat the Soviets in the Third Battle of Kharkov afterwards, and the Soviets would never have been capable of either the Kursk defense or the mobile counter-offensives that took place afterwards without foreign aid.

>>deaths
This does not take POW totals into account and is therefore an incomplete picture of the losses in question.

frogposting ended 3 years ago, reddit-kun

It has been tested and it was cool and good

his own bodyguard told the story long after he was dead. It is certainly true. There is no reason to praise stalin in an anti-stalin world unless you are telling the truth.

>in 1941 the United States promised to send 600 tanks and 750 aircraft, but actually sent only 182 and 204, respectively

In November 1942, i.e., at the height of the battle for the Caucasus and Stalingrad, the arms deliveries practically came to a complete halt. Disruptions in shipments had already begun in the summer of 1942, when German aircraft and submarines almost entirely wiped out the infamous Convoy PQ 17 that was abandoned (at the order of the Admiralty) by the British destroyers assigned to escort it. Tragically only 11 of the original 35 ships arrived safely into Soviet ports – a catastrophe that was used as a pretext to suspend subsequent convoys from Britain until September 1942.

A new convoy, the PQ 18, lost 10 of its 37 vessels along its route, and another convoy was not sent until mid-December 1942. Thus, for three and a half months, when one of the most decisive battles of the entire Second World War was being waged on the Volga, fewer than 40 ships carrying lend-lease cargo arrived intermittently in Murmansk and Arkhangelsk. For this reason, many were understandably suspicious that London and Washington were spending that time just waiting to see who would be left standing after the battle of Stalingrad.

As a result, between 1941 and 1942 only 7% of the wartime cargo shipped from the US made it to the Soviet Union. The bulk of the weapons and other materials arrived in the Soviet Union in 1944-1945, once the winds of war had decisively shifted.

Out of the 711 fighter planes that had arrived in the USSR from the UK by the end of 1941, 700 were hopelessly antiquated models such as the Kittyhawk, Tomahawk, and Hurricane

medium.com/war-is-boring/lend-lease-saved-countless-lives-but-probably-didnt-win-the-eastern-front-77715c4ce0b9
orientalreview.org/2015/05/13/wwii-lend-lease-was-the-us-aid-that-helpful-ii/

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>The USSR was far from being defeated by the Germans.
Lmao what? They were on the brink and just managed to pull it back. If Germany didn't have a western front to worry about they would have obliterated the USSR.

>aluminium
Excuse me, Nazi Germany never had access to aluminium and heavily relied on salvaging civilian household items and captured enemy equipment.

t. ancap living with autism bux

fabrications
cyclical famins that the ussr finally put an end to
if lightning stuck someone in the ussr people would have blamed stalin and communism

there is a url in the image

>There is no reason to praise stalin in an anti-stalin world unless you are telling the truth
And yet here you are praising him

yes but he try to sound redpilled

>there is a url in the image
Did you try to go to this url, you fucking fraud? Because I did

I only became a leftie when I started working and realized how the system really fucks you over and steals your labor output.

Oh look, revisionist horseshit from leftist retards. How convincing.

because nazis are le bad guys!

please upboat if you agree :DDD

why are white men so afraid of jews

so basically we all agree that we want an authoritarian government with an insane dictator at the helm right?

reminds me of when people say holocaust never happened except this gives some proof

Especially someone like Stalin, because he was actually a really cool guy!

oh look, a mentally impaired krautnignog expresses his seethe, how delightfully amusing

I only became a leftie when I started working and saw with my own eyes how the system really fucks you over and steals your labor output.

/pol/ is that way >>>>>>>

Germany defeated themself on east front with the help of winter. Hitler believer his super aryans don't need no winter clothing to survive. So they got wrecked by the climate.

Soviet tactics were orc style - send them boyz in. We got a lot of boyz send them all til bullets empty. Partly because stalin killed all his competent generals cause he feared they would get rid of his retarded ass.

>The US and the UK were actively involved in the fighting in Europe from 1943 onward
Yeah, against the Italians, who never were a major force in Russia, or anywhere else.
> they faced some 40 percent of the German army and 50 percent of the German airforce.
... that were left after the fighting in Russia.

yes
bonus points if he has a big chad moustache

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Hilarious how pol literally gets hardcore triggered when you say Hitler was bad.

>243 replies
>still no argument
Nice.

jews do everything in their power to shit on the white man, and even impersonate him. if they get in trouble they reply with 'I'm not white, I'm jewish.'

>>krautnignog
Nope.
>>seethe
Cry moar, retard. Nobody buys your bullshit.

most people are liberals user, you just take the term to mean a specific kind of liberal
if you are not a socialist (as in an actual seize the means of production and abolish capital, etc), and not some kind of wierd monarchist or something other completely obscure, you are a liberal.

In the US, promonent liberal parties include, the democrat party, the republican party, the libertarian party, the green party.
They are all liberals.

Some liberals think they are socialists. Most of these are just exceptionally stupid liberals and don't know what socialism even is. A few of them however, are only mildly stupid. They do know what socialism is, but think it can be voted into existence.

I mean what's suprising about it? The only reason to employ someone is to gain more than he costs. Capitalism is about minmaxing that.

What's really fucked is that the system is rigged and kills competition. You have a bunch of rigged markets with quasi monopolies behind the mask of multiple companies all owned by the same people to pretend competition exists.

that would imply (((they))) will lose control over world which by look of things right now is very unlikely

Not recently, what happened?

can you give me modern examples?

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That's why mods exist

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There is nothing to be found

I care more about sparrows than a buncha chinese insectoids

There were German divisions sent to Italy to fight the US and the UK, so this attempt at dismissing the invasion of Italy doesn't work, besides, Germany started diverting forces westwards in 1943 to fight off the inevitable invasion/liberation of France that was coming up too.
>>that were left after the fighting in Russia.
1943 is not 1945, the Germans had more then enough soldiers in 1943.

But that's literally it.
USSR was also behind the Iron Curtain, people in the world were not fully aware of what Stalin did.

>Capitalism is about minmaxing that.
Casually handwaving away that capitalism is about paying you as little as possible so you can survive and not start a riot while stealing from you as much as possible. Love to see it.

are you saying thr holocaust is a joke?

I don't have access to my folder that has the pictures on it right now.

>everyone I don't like is le pol
If Hitler isn't allowed in civ then neither should Stalin or Mao. Hating on nazis is low hanging fruit and it's incredibly tiresome.

oh
try this then
espressostalinist.com/the-real-stalin-series/gulag/

need a therapy dog, little krauty boy?

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>be danish, started playing civ 5 this summer
>sweden are hippies
>denmark are vikings
>but where is norway?
>represented as a danish unit

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The US uses "liberal" completely wrong in first place. "I'm a liberal im for more regulations." is bizzaro world

>Yours is culture of art and innovation, of science...
oh no no no no

>Nazi Germany
>science
Nazis were literally the anti-vaxxers of WW2.

>Why yes, I adore Hitler, how could you tell?

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>commie website
How do you expect to have non biased fact about stalin from a website with that name?

>>little krauty boy
Nope again.
>>therapy dog
I'm a cat person, you nigger faggot.

probably because of the jews. I get it.

Seems you don't know the definition still after having it explained to you

>commie website

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>If Hitler isn't allowed in civ then neither should Stalin or Mao.
In what way is Hitler comparable to Stalin or Mao?

>Nope again
sorry for mispronouning you, el chupacabra /pol/mutt

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>478909798
>paying yourself
fuck that. Good capitalist lets others pay for that through taxes. Good example is walmart. They don't pay the full wage. Half of it comes from taxes to support low income earners. So your taxes pay walmart their employees.

"Social" is just another weapon to exploit the gullible.

right there with you

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No because my brother is on the computer with those pictures.

>wahhhh why they hate on nazis this bullying is so tiring im TIRED OF IT ALL!!!

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They were nothing alike. Napoleon was a hero who, in times of great political and social instability, took the reins of the french nation to protect it from the agression of a huge coalition of kingdoms. The war that was led by Napoleon was a defensive one, and he fought it so brilliantly that in turn the one who was set to be conquered became the conqueror. What's more, Napoleon, while being an emperor, was a child of the french revolution and conveyed its ideals of freedom and equality. For example, people in his army could gain rank based on personal merit, it didn't matter if you had noble blood or not. He wasn't a bloodthirsty dictator, the people of france chose him and most people admired and loved him (see victor hugo), he was already regarded as a hero in his lifetime, it wasn't history that dignified him.

Yeah if you whine like a bitch about negative comments on Hitler you are pol

Fun fact: /pol/tards would instantly get T4'd if they lived in Nazi Germany.

I bet it is because your mom is a slut and had another child besides you because the JEWS DID IT.

>loud lefties are mostly young unemployed who want more gibs
That is hilariously untrue.
Vast majority of contemporary left are middle or upper middle class, colledge educated people having comfortable, cushy jobs in academia, journalism, non-profit organizations and lower-spectrum politics or media and art.
The reason why they are so active in pushing Marxism is almost hillariously banal:
It's so that they can keep those cushy jobs. Marxism is and always has been, above anything else, a self-justifying system. It exists to explain why it needs to exist, and why those who push it need to be venerated.

Being "progressive" and "liberal" are just incredibly easy ways to justify getting a cushy job with sense of authority and influence without having to actually have any exceptional talent or capacity or achievement what so ever: obviously entirely predicated on already having sufficient social capital to ensure you can "justify" your authority by appropriate "education".

In reality, it's the ideology of elites that simply want to remain in priviledged positions without being called into responsibility.

If you get called a nazi or /pol/tard multiple times you should really reconsider your views.
Behind all these accusations there is probably a good number of justified ones.

Damn you sounds pretty salty, what's the catch?

I seriously hope that was a mere mistake and you didn't intentionally try to downplay the 600 quintillion,user.

It's literally called 'ExpressoStalinist' moron. How can you get unbiased fact from a blog written by an actual communist?

>Modern western democratic socialists are predominantly liberal.
this is why we don't let americucks talk politics

Well gee user i lost the link where hitler himself was telling you gulags were not that bad.

Do you expect an anti-communist site to not be biased against communism?

Im afraid you are only ever going to get a communist, a monarchist, or a liberal take on the soviet union. Monarchists are understandibly going to be a little upset about the whole thing. So it comes down believing communists about themselves or the direct enemies of communists about them.

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You labeled it wrong. Look its a movement from the 17th century against goverment oversight and more personal freedom - hence liberal. Your mentioned parties that want regulations are exactly opposed to that worldview. They want the big daddy goverment.

>marxism is about cushy jobs for bougie
so who went to gulag then?

/pol/ is the only thing standing between roving bands of horny niggers and your family, show some respect!

>it's the ideology of elites that simply want to remain in priviledged positions
This is a hilariously fucking ridiculously stupid take on Marxism, holy fucking shit

>having multiple kids with the same man
>slut
So anyone who has siblings has a slut for a mother?

I see people are still confusing Communism with Stalinism. Usually dumb Americans who have been brainwashed into thinking Communism = Evil Russians trying to kill everyone.

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it is almost like it is capitalism but "it is bad when they do it"