Is this good? stacking defense doesnt em to be worth it

if you get good one hander weapons it is always viable, the issue is more finding a set of weapons that are better than whirlwind axe, which you probably won't replace till mid-late 50s due to its damage range and strength

As always, other people to pick up the slack and keep you alive.

>other people to pick up the slack
Doesn't that just mean it's bad then? Even in raids why would you not go with the strongest build?

>look my oc faggot random build hehehe
Fuck off

Wtf this gotta be a troll.

You'll be thinking of later expansions where Dodge and Parry come from ratings and Parry gets less % mitigation per stat budget.
In Vanilla where you're considering 1% Parry vs Dodge the only benefit of Dodge is that it works for attacks aimed at your back where Parry is frontal only.

I thought you couldn't dodge from behind either.

Group pvp and solo pvp are different things, itemization, progression adn gamestyle are different. MS warrior is the best group pvp class, SL lock is the best solo pvp class. Mage is probably the closest to being second in both when played near perfection and with engineering and similar/equal gear.

Regarding pve, you need to realize fury warrior is the highest potential personal dps in the game, even more for horde, so there's like 8+ fury warriors on each fucking raid if they're totally autist min/maxers, more casual guilds are just using mages because they're op in this phase and don't need crazy gear to perform well, warrior will always rely on having the best possible weapon to contest the top spots, so good luck getting those.

i like what youre trying for, but warriors arent hybrid classes. Most of their power comes from that lvl 40 bottom talent. Maybe pick up mortal strike and then go into fury

not him but just because a build is hybrid doesnt mean its shit, if you'd try playing the game you'd realize with equal gear, all specs can work. minmaxing autists like you suck the fun out of every game

>if you'd try playing the game you'd realize with equal gear, all specs can work.
I'm no minmax sperg but this is just straight up false
There's an overwhelming number of talent build combinations (especially meme builds where you never go down to a bottom talent) are just hard gimping yourself.

well you need rend for impale, so probably would have gone 2 parry myself. but yeah tactical mastery is essential.

Warriors and priests are the only classes where not getting your 40 talent gimps yourself. Every other class can be played decently with hybrid specs, most especially for pvp. hell, the best pve mage spec is a deep arcane/frost talent spec. You'd be gimping yourself by avoiding great abilities that are locked behind trees for certain classes.

Parry as a stat is undesirable for the following reasons:
1: It is more expensive in terms of item points than dodge/defense for the mitigation, so dodge and defense are generally better
2: parry causes you to swing faster which can cause the enemy to parry which can speed up their attacks and cause wipes in raids

You still get dodge/parry/chance to be missed against non raid boss mobs, defense is never a bad stat

>parry is bad for you because it speeds up your swing time
>parry is good for your enemy because its speeds up their swing timer
800 iq

Not that guy but it depends if it's a mob or a player iirc, you can't dodge mobs from behind but player attacks can... might be misremembering though

>but warriors arent hybrid classes
No class is

they kinda are. they're still the best tanks even running fury

>warrior will always rely on having the best possible weapon to contest the top spots, so good luck getting those.

Most guilds are going to have more than enough warrior spots because you can never have too many geared tanks. Especially with fucking poachers everywhere.

> just because a build is hybrid doesnt mean its shit

That build is pretty shit. It lacks in both damage output and sustainability. He doesn't have any particular talents or improvements to take advantage of his stuns and he's lacking in decent control talents at that. He skipped cruelty and grabbed improved thunderclap, which for even someone who doesn't understand a warrior is a pretty stupid thing to do logically.

> minmaxing autists like you suck the fun out of every game

Nobody ever stops you from playing stupid games, but don't get salty if someone says you're winning stupid prizes.

posting the real spec

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Stacking defense improves dodge and parry chance and against boss level mobs gives you more sustainability.

5/5 in parry is great because % upgrades like that are going to matter when gear isn't great. Tact mastery is a must and allows you to do incredible things with pretty much every ability you have at 60. Don't sleep on AM either, it actually gives you 1 rage a second while in combat and slows decay afterwords. It makes five mans go quick and helps with rage while raiding.

Only thing to avoid are talents that sound good on paper like Imp Shield block. You only need one talent in there because the duration increases aren't going to matter as much as the extra charge.

Imp shield wall may look like a no-brainer but you have to consider that it's a 30 min cooldown and those points may be better spent in revenge stun for trash or Imp taunt/ imp Sunder

>parry is bad because it causes you to swing more
You discovered the secret tactic of never hitting the enemy so that it'll never parry.

You can do it at 40, but if you're not fighting enemies that are green to you its a lot rougher overall. Personally I still do it because I was tired of two handers at that point.

>Wrath Affliction

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2handers hit
dualwielding 1handers dont

Shield block charges prevent crushing blows, the enemies getting sped up attacks consumes shield block quicker and can cause you to take crushing blows which can cause wipes, this is raid tanking 101. Outside of raiding it doesn't matter but then outside of raiding you don't need to worry about gearing for mitigation

defense stacking is overrated. Just gear for threat gen.

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SeeYou brainlets don't get that it's fine to hit the enemy and provoke a certain number of parries but gearing for it can make things risky

cringe

Is this the "Im a fucking sperg and I dont care who knows it" build? holy shit.

Hit gear is what makes up for it iirc

posting the realer spec

calculators.iradei.eu/talents/warlock

>doesnt even get titan's grip
weak ass gay baby

Home.

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I know mobs can dodge from behind unless the attack registered when it was facing me and it turned around. Who knows. But yes you can only miss players from behind

God dark pact is so useless. What the fuck. Why are all the warlock 31 point talents so garbage?

Because all your low and mid tier talents are good, think yourself lucky, you could have to deal with Shamen talent trees instead.

TBC can't come soon enough

That's a wrath warrior though.

Well that sucks, I guess I have to play rogue then
Thanks anons

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Yes but warrior pvp starts being fun at TBC

>Wotlk talent tree
>"OH BOY I SURE CAN'T WAIT FOR TBC"
????????????

Fury also gets sweeping strikes for some reason. What was blizzard thinking?
Also you get two good welfare 1handers in outland, so leveling is pretty decent.

user it's not like it isn't viable, you just need to get used to seeing MISS a lot. You'll still deal plenty if not the same damage. At the very least I feel like the rage gen is a bit faster with dw, and that's nice.

I mean its still fun, I've been having a blast because fuck actually playing arms anymore. And I only even switched over at around 45, I imagine I'll have more fun once I get full stance mastery bonus.

Stop pressing heroic strike and suddenly you actually have rage to use. Heroic strike sucks dick.

The rage generation is WAY higher, I feel like Im actually able to bloodthirst instead of one mortal strike 75% of the way through a mob.

Titans grip was a fucking mistake. It was a funny meme novelty for most of Wotlk but after that it's just retarded. Fury should not be dual wielding two handers as the default and only way to play.
Duel wielding one handers was so much better and more in theme with the class.

When did Ret pala become good was it TBC or Wrath?

Became decent and playable in BC as horde. and became godly in Wrath.

Guess I'll stick to druid I remember them being bullshit in TBC

if it hits 4 targets it does as much damage as a mortal strike. as long as you arent running out of rage for whirlwind its fine

Why would you tell someone something so stupid? Why would you tell a warrior to not use rage on his main and only real damage dealing attack.
He only just got whirlwind axe he's obviously not 40 yet so he doesn't have MS. Heroic strike is his damage so yes he should be using it.

>not using those 3 points for deep wounds
Buddy that build in that picture is full on retarded. I'm not sure if i have seen a worse more retarded leveling build for a warrior.

Just switch over to it.

Will it be more efficient? Math says no, but it's endgame good and if you're raiding you're dual-wielding fury anyways.

Pally became fun period on both horde and alliance. Wrath buffed ret through the roof though. Wrath pre-patched ret pallies was like playing with cheat codes.

I soloed two level 70s with Season 2 glad gear on my level 63 pally at that time.

the build in question is shit. I don't disagree. I was trying to argue that hybrid builds are viable when built correctly and even optimal in some cases. I'll take a frostfire mage spec over deep frost for pvp anyday.

only time i go 1handers is when i have two good 1 handers and lion helm + everything else for hit
both devilsaur pieces etc
crusader ench on both blades/axes and then go fucking ham fury farming
cons: its fury dualwielding and will never hit hard you'll freeze on a frost mage shield with a 90 dmg one hand hit instead of a 900 crit from a 2hander

Because heroic strike denies you rage from your next attack, which is your main way to generate rage. The damage/rage ration in heroic strike is TERRIBLE. Use any other ability.

In Wrath S8, with the correct gear, RET/Disc was one of the best team for arena.
They even beat Warr/Pal but good luck with mages

Thunderclap is a waste of talents and training money.

At no stage of the game is it viable enough to justify wasting money on it over saving for the mount.

Most classes are you brainlet. Or at least they can be built that way. You don't have to go the full 40 talents for every single class. Infact a lot of 40 talent abilities are shit in vanilla.

It doesn't bother me, being able to take ruin is great. Ruin is really fun.

God I missed these old talent trees who here hopes that they bring them back to retail because k for one surely need it back. Freeflow was objectively the best way to let players have a true rolwplayijg experience

Resillence made warrior pvp less fun. Burating down rogues and clothies thanks to windfury sword spec procs/crits in less than 2 seconds is the most fun i have ever had.

Clearly you've never played a warrior in vanilla if you still don't understand the concept that THERE IS NO OTHER ABILITY.
Unless you're wasting rage on retarded shit like thunder clap or rend.

All you have is heroic strike for single target, cleave for 2+, and overpower which is a proc on dodge. Later you get whirlwind at 36 which is when you can stop doing heroic strike, then 40 you get MS your main attack.

>I'll take a frostfire mage spec over deep frost for pvp anyday.

Well yea, mage talent tree is one of the best in vanilla and basically how all talent trees should've been designed. Only thing it was missing was viable arcane nuke to justify using arcane as anything but a support tree.

I've literally never played a warrior
Should I just go in raw and learn by experience?

I was a fury warrior in Vanilla. When TBC came out I got a weapon called Singing Crystal Axe that gave me haste, and combined with an Abacus of Violent Odds and a Haste Potion my damage was unreal. I loved it.

Bursting not burating. Is burating even a word? Fucking phone poster

>tank build
>"adventuring build"
l-lol???

>missed all the good talents
its a long walk to 60 for warrior and much longer with this shit warrior build
>sword spec
>sweeping strikes despite being some retarded tank build
>more than 1 point into improved revenge
>points for 10 defence

It's an extremely simple class that becomes really fun once you're 60 and took stance mastery.

Leveling a warrior is boring and most of your abilities are a waste of rage because they either don't provide enough utility or the damage is so bad they don't justify even buying them. When you hit level 40 your class gets its actual dps abilities and Warrior becomes tons of fun.

its not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. Getting to level 20 is the hardest part, then you start to scale so well with gear its ridiculous

Because fucking rend deals more damage than heroic strike you mongoloid. Heroic strike costs 15-12 rage, while it also denies you another +-10 rage for replacing an auto attack, while only giving LESS extra damage than what rend deals while costing 10 rage.
If you don't WASTE rage pressing heroic strike, you actually have rage to use sunder, demo shout etc. Just spamming sunder on mobs is way better than using heroic, because you will hit them way more and get more overpowers etc when they dodge.

Prolly cus that's when you can start doing dungeons

2v2 didnt give rewards in season 8 so nothing that happened there mattered.

>not getting fucking mortal strike
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and I don't even play WoW.

Personally I find 20-40 to be the most awful

holy shit, do you know how threat works? Good warrior tanks don't use rend because its a fucking waste of rage, as it produces so little rage per minute its fucking laughable. Heroic strike is preferred since it gives you a CHUNK of threat. A DoT is shit for tanking, you only gain threat on dmg ticks.

why are people so triggered by this

Yeah either you haven't really played a warrior, or if you have then you are incredibly trash at it.
This is some truly awful warrior """advice""".

You don't give two fucks about threat when you are killing mobs by yourself, no one was talking about threat generation while tanking.

because its a shit build. excusable if you're just learning the game, but if you actually level a warrior to 60. you'd know that most of those talents he chose are fucking useless

>Parry as a stat is undesirable for the following reasons:
>1: It is more expensive in terms of item points than dodge/defense for the mitigation, so dodge and defense are generally better
Not sure that items in classic had a hard item budget like later expansions

>2: parry causes you to swing faster which can cause the enemy to parry which can speed up their attacks and cause wipes in raids
you are basically trading a sure fire missed attack for a POSSIBLE attack in future + increased threat generation, which is very important in classic. Dodge does slightly better at pure mitigation.

its better than solo questing as arms, and anything is better than prot leveling.

No, it's you who is simply terrible at the game and can't read tooltips. Heroic stike is an awful ability, that is only used if you have more rage than you can spend with other abilities.

You're post is all about tanking. Why else would you be talking about spamming sunder? or revenge procs? or using demo shout on mobs? all of these things are only used during tanking. Also even when leveling Rend is a shit ability, you don't need to pick it up until 60. and thats IF you decide to go Arms or Fury.

>Because fucking rend deals more damage than heroic strike you mongoloid.

I'll never listen to warrior who tries to get me to buy fucking rend. I'll never take it and now that I'm forty I'm glad I don't even have to argue with anyone about it.

He's not talking about tanking. Even then Shield slam > Revenge > Sunder will always come before HS in a tanking rotation.

imagine being one of those Heroic strike lets who misses and wastes rage on an attack that is mostly mitigated against armor which every mob has
when rend is cheaper, more efficient, pops overpower and doesnt waste your rage generation
and most of all
(((ignores armor)))

What else do I dump rage on then? Slam is nice since it's 1.5 autos instead of whirlwind axe's 3.8 or whatever but that only works when someone else has aggro because spell pushback.

Because it's one of the worst builds anyone could have possibly come up with. You would have such an incredibly horrible time trying to play the game with that build. Just the thought of some clueless retard being subjected to that hurts my soul.

You get way more rage than it takes to keep rend up. What the fuck else would you use your rage on?

It is an extremely awful build. Even making it to 60 with something like this would be painful.

Sunder reduces armor which increases your physical dps by a not insignificant margin. demo reduces mob damage in most cases. Revenge is just for tanking.

I was talking about overpower procs on mobs while leveling. If you spam sunder on mobs while killing them solo, you get +2x more hits in per mob and thus get more possible dodges to use overpower.
Heroic strike is a SHIT SKILL because it denies rage from your next auto-attack. Even rend deals more damage/rage spent.

uuhhh bro pretty sure warrior is going to be free honor regardless

*this post was made by the mage gang*

dont listen to this redditor
he watched too many fury leveling vids on the youtubes

HS is a rage dump.

But if you picked up stance mastery, replacing it with sunder has benefits of more overpowers and more rage to us on whirlwind and other abilities when you get them.

Lmao okay you are 100% a clueless retard that is hilarious.

You know how everyone has been noticing how since warrior and mage is so overplayed in classic that the majority of them are braindead retards? These are the types of people behind them.
Absolutely fucking clueless about their class. Embarrassing.

Just look at the tooltip of rend and compare how much damage it adds per rage compared to your loved heroic strike that denies you extra rage because it eats your next auto attack.

>HS is a rage dump.
That doesn't answer my question. There isn't anything else to spend rage on at my level other than rend and sunder.

yeah most of them are retarded cucks who spend rage on heroic strike hahahahahahhahahaha

>even rend deals more damage/rage spent
Citation needed.
its just personal experience, leveled a warrior to 60 on the K2 private server. When I'm just killing mobs, I don't like wasting rage on abilities that don't do damage flat out. I'd use a sunder on a boss mob if I knew the fight would last more than a minute or two, but thats about it. I had an ez breezy time leveling too

Sunder, hamstring, more rend, anything but heroic strike unless the mob dies to your next heroic strike but wouldn't die to an auto attack.

>caring about a skill this much

lol I'm already 40 and rocking my mortal strike. Rend is just a noob trap. Any benefit it has before then is overshadowed by how fucking useless it is once you get good skills.

Nobody gives a flying fuck about the warrior leveling meta.

Imagine being so braindead you don't even notice rend doing terrible damage past level 20. A fucking auto attack crit does more damage than a full rend let alone a heroic strike, then let alone a heroic strike crit.
Do you retards not upgrade your weapons or something where rend is somehow doing damage for you?

>All these warrniggers arguing and not playing THE god class aka mage

So you're telling me that spamming rend even when the bleed is already on someone is better dps than using heroic strike?

leveled 5 wars to 60
its rend until whirlwind axe crits around finally picking up 5-8~% crit and then you'll just apply deep wounds so often that rend phases out of rotation
all you'll click from 36 on out is Sweeping strikes berserker rage and whirlwindcleavemortalstrike
dont forget to waste sweep stacks on hamstring as well while u sip the ez life to level 60

>I soloed two level 70s with Season 2 glad gear on my level 63 pally at that time.

Too bad s2 gear is lvl70 requirement so i highly doubt.

>do you retards not upgrade your weapons or something where rend is somehow doing damage for you?

they dual-wield

>playing the new huntard class
Its like you want people to think you're retarded. The sheer amount of dumbass mages now is ridiculous

>20 agi = +1% crit
>20 str = +2.86 dps

isnt agi actually better for warriors?

>new huntard class
Thats unironically Shaman now

lmaooo111!
nothing better than farming 400 iron and then shitting on mages with nades and mortal strikes as they try exiting their iceblocks

I am going to get the whirlwind hammer and there is nothing you can do to stop me

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Agi gives AP as well as crit, but Strength multiplies the value of crit.

They probably do because it is literally impossible for rend to do more damage than a single heroic strike when you're over level 20 if you're using a decent two hander. Rend is beyond garbage that's why it's a dead useless skill even with the mandatory 3 points in improved rend.

>s2 gear is lvl70 requirement so i highly doubt.

Well, yea I'd doubt it too if they weren't level 70 and wearing s2 gear.

Pallies were that strong back then, clearly meant for the level 80 itemizations and talents that everyone else got at wrath cap.

Rend objectively gives you more DPS than HS because it's instant cast, but plebs can't understand DoTs.

Whirlwind axe will be replaced by literal greens FAR before mid-late 50’s. It good until like low 40’s when you’ll start to find a million replacements from dungeons.

>Citation needed.
At level 40 heroic strike adds 80 damage, while costing 15 + the rage you lose from missing an auto attack.
Rend at 40 deals 98 damage while costing 10 rage.

>finally mentions deep wounds in the warrior thread
Thank fuck, thats the only way Rend becomes viable by literally being replaced by a better dot. Also its whirlwind worth using on just 1 mob? Or is your post about fighting 2-3 mobs at one time?

If you're using a 2h, I believe HS is 15 rage + 16 lost from the auto attack, so 32, or 28 with Improved Heroic Strike. HS is fucking garbo.

I have FAP and Engi, mages aint shit

I meant that i thought he guy who said he soloed 2 70s at 63 glad gear some random glad gear that doesnt exist irrc just sounds odd. You get to arenas at lvl 70 in tbc so he kinda had to be level 70 too. Dunno about cata tho, its a whole different game

HS scales off your weapon speed. The slower you weapon speed, the bigger the yellow dmg you get. The bigger the yellow dmg, the more rage you get. If you keep your weapon up to date on a warrior, you never have to use rend. Even though it deal more damage OVER TIME, thats the hint. OVER TIME. By the time the rend has ran through its entire duration, the mob is already dead. So you've wasted rage, which could've just been spent in another HS. to kill the mob faster.

If that's including the DOT damage your argument is irrelevant because you have to wait it out before you can get the damage off again

how did so many shitters start to think they know how to play a class? When they don't even know what makes their abilities do more damage?

He went that far into Arms just to forgo the literal entire reason you go Arms (Mortal Strike)

HS doesn't scale at all with weapon speed you fucking idiot. It adds a flat amount of +damage and threat based on rank to your normal auto attack damage. It increases the damage by the exact same amount for a dagger as is does for a 2h.

whirlwind does WEAPON DAMAGE
rend takes 15 sec to do its 3 ticks and will b rank 3 and with 30% boost its like what 90 damage in 15 seconds while whirl is WEAPON DAMAGE?
yeah you go whirl every time after 36 and ditch rend
save it for rogues that you pop out of stealth with demo shout if they ever walk towards you if your hamstring doesnt crit and pop wounds u sxy warrior beast

I'm that guy.

It was in Hellfire Pen, at the towers. Level 70 hunter attacked me, I got into his dead zone, and his level 70 rogue friend opened on me. By the end, both were dead to a level 63 pally in green gear.

It's the Onion Knight of WoW classes. You won't see anything spectacular out of it until you get max level and some gear

yes it does, you fucking retard. Any ability that isn't an instant cast scales with weapon speed.

I heroic strike and theres nothing you can do about it

Mages don't need their bottom talents unless you're leveling frost.

This retard just ignored the fact heroic strike ADDS that damage to your damage, while rend is just a flat damage number.
They've also been ignoring what you said, that if your gear isn't terrible then rend should not even be finishing a single duration because the mob is dead before then.
Rend will only last a full duration if you get bad RNG and miss/dodge/parry a lot which happens from time to time but that's the nature of classic.

But if you press HS you deny yourself an entire auto attack worth of rage. You are constantly rage starved if you keep doing this, while you could easily get +3 stacks of sunder, rend and actually have rage to still use heroic strike if you need to.

bet you a limb that you couldnt even with smite hammer/wc staff kill a single yellow mob with heroic strikes unless you started at 80 rage before a single rend at the beginning of a charge runs out
doubt youd even get 40 out of a 100

Art of war was way stronger then it should be

no, it doesn't, which is why Prot Warriors use fast weapons. It is a flat modifier, it is not affected by anything related to your weapon.

Attached: HS.png (266x119, 23K)

Rend is good to put on rogues so they cant vanish.

Charge -> HS -> AA -> AA -> HS -> AA
mobs dead and you're left with at least 45 rage.
Also why the fuck are level 20 weapons, you're immediate choice? Have you even gotten to the 30 as a warrior before?

Enjoy being slow as shit. By the time you've applied your sunders and start doing damage my mob is already dead and i'm charging the next one.

agility does not give attack power.
but if i deal 500 dps 20 agi is 1% increase in damage while 20 str isnt as much

Mate, the HS ADDS damage to your weapon. So you get your base melee damage + HS dmg. To increase your base melee damage, you use slower weapons. Which in turn boosts your HS dmg. Prot warriors use fast weapons, because they need to constantly dump rage to keep threat up during raids.

No, you are the one being slow because you keep using a skill that denies you rage while costing rage instead of using other skills that are more efficient.

People who made fun of this build are the reason why there are no talent builds in retail WoW.

Replace it with hamstring and yes. Early on when you have no skills to spend rage on you are going to be relying almost entirely on fat overpower crits to kill stuff while kiting whenever it's safe with hamstring slows. Overpower is only available if a mob dodges your attack. Instant attacks like hamstring can be dodged so you want as many attacks as possible in order to buff the chance of getting a dodge so you can overpower.

Hamstring also does a tiny amount of damage but only costs 10 rage as opposed to Heroic that also does next to nothing while costing 15 rage + whatever rage you'd get from your next swing.

You fucking retard. You absolute retard. HS simply adds a flat amount of damage to your weapon swing. The hit being bigger with a slower weapon is because your weapon damage is higher. This does not affect the damage added by heroic strike in ANY WAY, heroic strike will add the same amount of damage regardless of weapon speed, because Heroic Strike does not scale.

Yes it does give attack power.
Strength gives warriors 2 AP per point along with some block. Agility gives 1 AP per point along with some crit.
Strength for rogues gives them 1 AP, and agility gives them 2 AP and some crit.

looking like shitty small weapon wielding rogue baby was never in theme with a warrior.

Crits also increase the amount of rage you gain from attacks. Yes crit is really good for warriors, but it's not as simple as one might think.

Imagine recommending to a warrior to spam Hamstring over HS
I guarantee you this guy never made it past level 12 as a warrior

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>The bigger the yellow dmg, the more rage you get
You don't get rage off abilities, idiot.

He's never made it to a high level that much is certain.

That build is literal dogshit and deserves all the hate it's gotten. There's having fun in the game and then there's gimping yourself to be a special snowflake.

Is all this rend talk even worth it when rend's only worth at high levels is putting a dot on rogues?

THats exaclty what I said. HS will do MORE DMG if you have a SLOWER WEAPON. The dmg added by the HS ability will be the same, but with a slow weapon and not some pussy fast 1 hander dual wield build, the overall HS dmg will be increased.

No it doesn't. Agi only gives ranged attack power, crit and dodge to warriors.

Heroic is only useful on tanking when you literally cannot stop over-capping on rage.

agility only gives 1 melee ap for rogues, hunters, and cat druids

Its not worth it, Rend's only viable use in the game is what you said. Deep wounds completely takes rend out of the game when that talent becomes available

imagine posting smug faggot enabler images when you are this clueless

Cat druids get ap from str.

You are a fucking retard. You said HS scaled with weapon speed, which is not true, HS does not scale you simply don't understand the words you're using and trying to opine on shit you don't know. Stop posting.
HS damage is increased with FAST weapons, which is why Prot Warriors use it. A weapon with a 3.0 speed will get half as many heroic strikes as a weapon with a 1.50 speed, if both weapons have the same DPS, the faster weapon will deal the same amount of auto attack damage and TWICE as much Heroic Strike damage.

I swear to god of all the class players in this game, warriors are the most vocal about fucking everything.

>is rend worth it?
>2h vs 2 1hs
>fury vs arms

They will literally spend a thousand posts arguing over fucking leveling metas like any of that shit matters when warrior meta at 60 is already known.

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They also get AP from agility.

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It does because HS dmg is increased when you have a slower weapon. I base number you see on the ability is not affected by the weapon speed, but thats just the number added to your white attack. Which is what HS is, white attack dmg + the base HS dmg. A faster weapon will have more frequent HS's thats true, but the overall dmg will be lower. Take 5 seconds, make a warrior. Buy a 2 hander and a 1 hander weapon. Level up with a 2 hander and then level with the 1 hander. Come back and tell me which killed the mob faster. surprise surprise is going to be the slow 2 hander

is there a mod that will display your stats like they were expanded on in later xpacs? Like let me see my hit and crit %?

you dont get rage from heroic strike attacks, it literally means instead of getting rage on your next auto you lose 15 rage.

Stacking bleeds on rogues and clothies prevents bandaging and is decent enough on damage. And since you have to spec into it anyway you might as well spend 10 rage and just drop it at least once on someone in pvp. Arns has always been the pvp spec anyway.

You didnt understand him at all. You spam HS in dungeons and raids because you will constantly be at rage cap. Thanks to the overwhelming amount of dmg you take. You don't even have to focus on generating rage at that point. You'll get 100 rage on the first 2 hits from a boss.

I didn't say it gave rage, hence why it's only good when you are over capping due to tanking hits.

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>base number you see on the ability is not affected by the weapon speed

That is the ONLY DAMAGE Heroic Strike Does you fucking mong. The rest is just your auto attack. HS is Auto Attack + Rank HS. Heroic Strike does not scale with weapon speed, it simply takes your auto attack and adds a small amount of extra damage on top. That extra does not change regardless of how much damage your white swing does.

THATS EXACTLY WHAT THE FUCK I SAID. THATS TWICE NOW, you fucking mongoloid. Your Auto Attack is your white attack dmg, the number in white that you see when you hit a mob with your weapon. SINCE A SLOWER WEAPON WILL MAKE YOUR AUTO ATTACK DAMAGE GO UP. IT WILL INCREASE YOUR OVERALL HS DMG. YOU ARE FUCKING DENSE. THUS HS SCALES WITH WEAPON SPEED, THE FASTER YOUR WEAPON THE LOWER THE YELLOW DMG NUMBER FROM HS WILL BE SINCE YOUR WHITE AUTO ATTACK DMG WILL BE LOWER.

You don't know what "to scale" means.

Enjoy being cucked

That isn't scaling you fucking baboon.

You know, fury tanking is a really cool and fun way to look at the class.

BUT every fury-tank I've run into has been a fresh sixty that struggles to hold aggro and is constantly popping last stand to stay alive.

It's like people just skipped to the talent tree in Skarm's vids and paid no attention to anything he had to say.

I'll build the fucking scale since you can't seem to figure it out
Fast Slow

low dmg High dmg

You are criminally retarded. You would have dealt that auto attack damage even if you hadn't used HS, it is not part of the HS damage. It is independent and unrelated. HS is only the flat damage added on top. HS does not scale with weapon speed, if I had a 3.0 weapon and use 10 Rank 6 Heroic strikes over 30 seconds, HS will add 800 damage. If I have a 1.50 weapon and deal 20 Rank 6 Heroic Strikes over 30 seconds, Heroic Strike will add 1600 damage.

If HS scaled with weapon speed it would deal the same damage over that 30 seconds regardless of weapon speed, you absolute fucking chimp.

No, scaling with weapon speed would mean that skills give more or less additional damage based on attack speed, which is not the case with heroic strike.

whos skarm

There was some fat bitch saying in barrens chat that Alliance were the bad guys and horde the good guys

IMAGINE thinking this

This HS user is throwing out some fucking five star bait here. Is this the start of an epic new troll pasta?

>charge
>demoralizing shout
>rend
>heroic strike

Well at least I make some damage

We wuz noble savages 'n shiiiiiiiet

>it is not part of the HS damage
except it is. HS is your auto attack dmg + the base dmg from HS. The ability does not scale with weapon speed as ive said several times, its your AUTO ATTACK that scales with weapon speed. So, if you use a slow weapon your auto attack dmg will go UP, thus making your HS dmg go UP.
Also, you're example doesn't work as a faster weapon generates rage slower than a 2 hander. It would be impossible to get double the amount of heroic strikes out over another warrior using a good 2 hander.

It's true. Horde are the dindus of WoW.

I unironically thought this when i was 12 years old. The story that's told in WoW leads you to this.

Since rend does flat damage anyways, how is it even supposed to compete with a HS, even factoring in the lost rage?

because 98 damage is a white hit from me at level 27 and that's 98 over 21 seconds. Most mobs for me are dying long before then and I still don't have a bonebiter or a whirlwind axe like you'd have at 40. Even then you'd have MS anyways so shouldn't HS and rend be a waste of rage when whirlwind also exists.

Like heroic strike is wep damage + 80 which with a bonebiter is potentially 200 damage and twice the damage of rend in 3.40 seconds. Factor in imp HS and you're only losing on about 28 rage potentially for damage in 3.40 second while you'd have to wait out the full 21 seconds for rend to have it's worth accounted for. I mean I'd still use MS and whirlwind over HS because instant cast is better, but I don't see the use in rend since most 1v1 fights with a mob don't last thirty seconds.

A tank a lot of prot-fury try to copy while still being half the tank he is.

he's a guy with a lot of knowledge about warriors and a lot of tanking advice for druids. multiple naxx clears as druid and warrior mt

retard

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Classic was a mistake. Im going to have a fucking stroke at these selectively dense faggots that refuse to even google something about a game thats been out for 15 fucking years. So once again.
>HS is AA dmg + base HS DMG
>AA dmg scales with weapon speed
>THUS HS SCALES WITH FUCKING WEAPON SPEED

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That's not scaling you retard.

That's the point some of us have been trying to make. They clearly have never leveled very high because rend becomes useless past level 20. Only use for it is as others have said, you fuck with rogues so they can't vanish away or blind and bandage.

Literally in both common sense and mathematically, rend is fucking terrible past 20. You have to actually be lacking in brain cells to not see that.

>When you're so nig that even your brain is black

Damn, must be a dedicated horde player

It's not black, it's hollow. Dude had a fluid buildup in his brain that slowly dissolved 80% of his head meat. Funny part is he was still alive and moderately functional.

>dodge an attack, get no rage
>parry an attack, generate rage faster
Whatever you say nerd.

I know it's not actually black it was part of the joek

>tfw mountlet

Brain matter is actually gray bro

>imagine thinking rend does more damage than heroic strike
>target dies before half damage from rend has been done

Idiots

kill yourself

>warrior killing a mob in under 20 seconds
doubt it

>tfw mount @ 40 as priest

lmaoing@urlife

Try sticking with warrior past level 20 next time and you'll be surprised.

Is it really that fucking hard to admit you were wrong?
This is just pathetic

Rend is guaranteed damage. It's certainly worth using before you get WW. I never used anything other than Rend and HS pre 36 when I leveled but I recently with classic I have begun to see the validity of using Sunder instead of HS; the reason for this, as explained, is that Sunder costs both the rage cost and your melee rage gain, which consistently keeps you at no to minimum rage, and Sunder spam boosting all of your white attacks on a target while increasing the chances of more OPs. I don't think I've seen full testing on this but I could see the DPS behind higher than the traditional HS spam method.

HOW
>HOW
HOW?!

Almost as bad as the 'adventure' one everyone was making fun of.

what professions do you have

50 warrior right now. deep arms with a level appropriate blue slow weapon.
not happening.

Serious question
why the fuck does wowhead let absolute retards write their guides?

Anyone?

Pretty easy to once you clear 20 and you have gear from elite quests, dungeons, and your talent boosts. I typically drop mobs in under thirty at level 28 and once you get good gear and a weapon like WW axe early, under twenty kills are more than possible

>SFK
>These three horses do MASSIVE damage
>it is imperative that you have an offtank carry one away

Never has there been so much bullshit said in one paragraph.

>tfw running BRD with a Priest who didn't train Spirit

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Well you're doing something wrong because ever since i got my whirlwind axe at level 36 or so i truck mobs and when i got MS at 40 it got even easier. I easily kill mobs in under 15 seconds. I'm in the 50s right now and using alexander's battle axe which i bought from the AH for 9g. I have 17-20% crit and mobs die in 2 mortal strikes or less assuming i don't get chain misses in a row.

I thought it was because of their aoe stun? theyre dmg is laughable, they only wipe retarded groups that like to stack on each other

but im not wrong.

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Stun is negligible even for a non-orc. They generally only drop it once at the beginning before they're straight dead.

WoWhead says the same shit about the turtle wave in BFD but I fucking rocked that as a tank. I'm starting to think these guides are meant for a warrior in whites with a healer in greys.

>viable
Define viable.

If you want to DPS as a warrior good news, it basically does not matter what spec or weapons you use as long as the weapon is the best you can get at that level range. For comparison I'm a generic 35 WW axe fury warrior and did a SM run with a red haired duel axe wielding dwarf, I was averaging about 120-140dps and he was doing 110dps against single targets. We got through it fine, absolutely no one cared about his dps and it was all okay.

From level 1 to 60 it really does not matter. I've even played with two ret paladins and they were fine as well. People really spend too much time caring about what 'viable' means within the content of level 60. The other thing which people forget is that because we dont have LFG you have to manually find people and it takes for fucking ever to do, which is actually a good thing. The longer it takes to find a group the more willing a person is to take someone "sub-optimal". If we had LFG in Classic every single party would be 1 warrior, 1 priest, 3 mages.

You are literally unequivocally empirically wrong and you need to fuck off

>alexander's battle axe on wowhead
>post from 2005
>"Until an expansion comes along and gives us new toys, this is the best 2h weapon in the game for hunters imo. Huge dps, all the supporting stats a ranged fighter needs and, well, there is just something "lordly" about it.
Amazing weapon."

There is something peak huntard about this comment. It's glorious.

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Keep leveling with your baby toy level dual wield build, while im rocking the charts with my 3.70 speed 2 hander. Maybe you'll do more dps than the healer thats wanding, maybe.

>AA dmg scales with weapon speed
What. No it doesn't.

Uhh yeah it does. He's saying it scales off speed in that slower weapons hit harder which is true.

>auto-attack damage doesn't scale with weapon speed
>weapon speed has no effect on your white damage

Are we being ironic right now?

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What the fuck are you smoking. A weapons damage is literally made of two parts, its min/max damage and its speed. It does not scale or change in any shape or form.

DPS = ((Min Weapon Damage + Max Weapon Damage) / 2) / Weapon Speed
DPS = ((97 + 181) / 2) / 2.60
DPS = (278 / 2) / 2.60
DPS = 139 / 2.60
DPS = 53.46
DPS = 53.5

You can do this with any fucking weapon. If you mean slower weapons hit harder no shit, they have a higher min/max damage range. But they dont 'scale' based off speed.

And you're getting the same amount of damage per rage out of your heroic strikes because it doesn't scale and you're a complete fucking retard.

You can also use heroic strike in the early levels without losing all your rage generation from damage, which means you can actually use something besides rend

>If you mean slower weapons hit harder no shit, they have a higher min/max damage range.
Yes that is what i am saying and i am pretty sure that's what this other user has been saying this entire time.

You retards trying to pretend he's not right by going into semantics about what the word scaling applies to is sad. Yes slower weapons hit harder, that is how it works. Faster weapons don't hit as hard. Almost as if the weapons low and top end is based off..... Weapon speed?

the weapons that are slower have higher min/max damage, its how blizzard balances weapons.

He's 100% right though, the damage per rage for rend is far higher at all stages of leveling particularly if you are using heroic, rend should always be up on the enemy and even then you should be sundering instead of using heroic unless the enemy will die in the next 2-3 hits unless you have a ton of rage to dump

>trying to save face this hard because you cant understand basic English
Next time dont make stupid statements like AA dmg scales with weapon speed and people wont point out you're moronic.

Weapons damage and speeds are arbitrary and made up by Blizzard, just because "generally" slower weapons hit harder does not fucking mean all weapons scale off attack speed, there are scores of weapons which have higher/lower min/max ratios and swing speeds that dont fit into any concept of attack speed determining min/max damage.

Now post some stupid as fuck reply to try and save face, I wont read it but im sure it will make you feel better about getting BTFO.

Drop 2h spec and imp. clap for deep wounds and impale and it would be a decent offtank/cleaver build.

Isn't this thread full of people calling you a moron?

This is a whole lot of autism when you could just use some sense and understand that the original poster says your auto-attack damage is going to be higher with a slower weapon because slower weapons will have higher min/max damage.

I don't really get why you feel such a strong compulsion to act ignorant on purpose. It just makes you look like a clown we both know you understood exactly what he was saying yet still you just pretend to have no idea so you can argue over the use of a word he used to describe it.
It's just really sad but hey, you do you. If it makes you feel better.

>rend should always be up on the enemy

>Weapons damage and speeds are arbitrary and made up by Blizzard,

Christ, these are the guys that play my class.

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>All this endless shitposting about whats min/max best thing ever to do
>at the end of the day talking about at best a 1 to 10 dps difference, if that
Apart from your weapon and actually putting points into either Arms or Fury, your rotation is irrelevant and I challenge someone to actually post math proving otherwise within the context of leveling and dungeons before 55-60.

Absolutely nothing is more important than your weapon, using talents and maybe if you're lucky having some good stat items. Your rotation shitposting is a joke. You're basically worrying about something which has a 1 to 5% change in DPS when you would be better off spending that time just grinding items or buying better weapons/armor.

The only based post in this entire thread.

once you are geared as a warrior you literally never use rend simply because its too weak to justify the GCD which is more important than the rage, heroic strike is used because it prevents rage capping and doesn't hold a gcd hostage

At what level do you get dual wield on warrior?

20

But it also takes away your auto attack by your definition so whatever damage you think it scales by it also scales by the same amount negatively, thus not scaling at all.

its just funny how redditors shit on any build or way of playing that hasnt been officially approved

>Like heroic strike is wep damage + 80

No, heroic strike is - weapon damage, + weapon damage, + 80, since you miss an auto attack. You can't just say it's dealing weapon damage + 80 when you're missing out on an auto attack when you use it.

Not him but I had skinning/herb back in vanilla as a priest and I could afford my mount at 40 and at 60 I got it 2 days after dinging. Never understood people having no gold in vanilla. Use the AH people.

Listen.

is a terrible fucking build and deserves to be shit on.

There ain't nothing reddit about calling out trash for what it fucking is.

Well some of the builds posted like ones going into prot are so retarded that it's hard not to laugh and mock them. It's like seeing someone wear their shirt backwards, sure they can wear their shirt backwards who says they can't? It's still stupid though and you'd be puzzled why someone would do it.

AA and HS are two separate things. The autoattack is always there regardless of whether or not you used HS on that swing cycle, it is NOT a part of HS. No matter what your swing speed is, HS always has the same damage per rage. It doesn't scale and you're fucking retarded.

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Nah, there was a gnome fury warrior in prebc who shit on everyone, he was BiS though.

Why are you fucking dumbasses even arguing about rend and HS at 40 when you have both Whirlwind and Mortal Strike by then?

>not putting 5 points in cruelty even if you're going arms

You'll typically find better 2-handers while leveling up. But you can make dual wielding fury better than 2-hander before Molten Core if that's what you mean by endgame.

Just grab MS and then drop 5 in cruelty after. It's not fucking rocket science.

You don't put points into it before MS that's stupid. Getting MS at 40 is the number 1 priority period.

Optimally you should just level as fury or if you are arms you get cruelty first then at 40 you respec full arms to get MS. By 45 you can have your 5% crit back.

Can you not read or what?

Because some retard was claiming hs deals more damage at all states of leveling. Even if rend is shit, that doesn't change that hs is worse.

It's absolutely valid for leveling, you can just respec for 1g once you hit 40 and get mortal strike. 5% crit chance is massive, especially if you go mortal wounds and impale

I literally just said that did you even read my post.

I didn't put that much effort into reading your post because you put none into mine
That's what I was already talking about idiot

Yes, parry is better than +10 Defence
In fact, that talent is considered pretty mediocre and many tanks take the +5% crit over the +10 defence.

I don't know what the fuck you're trying to imply here.

40 for MS and cruelty after or you level Fury and respec for 40 for MS. Cruelty is a good talent you pick up no matter the dps build.

It doesn't change how useless rend and HS are at 40 for your dps when you have both Whirlwind and Mortal Strike to use rage on anyways. Even if you don't have cruelty at level 40, you get it 5/5 by 45 anyways, so you're literally splitting hairs there if you're thinking cruelty is worth forgoing MS at 40.

????????????????????????????

This user just made a post saying rend doesn't matter by 40 cause you have MS and whirlwind. You replied with a completely irrelevant post mentioning cruelty and implying you won't have MS at 40. Me and him both respond saying that doesn't make sense you should have MS at 40 whether you get cruelty first and respec at 40 or not.
You reply to both of us with more nonsense showing you didn't even read properly.

Explain to me how any of this makes any fucking sense and how in any possible manner you are somehow not the retard in this situation.

>or you level Fury and respec for 40 for MS.
This is exactly what I was impling user

>This user just made a post saying rend doesn't matter by 40 cause you have MS and whirlwind.
Neither my post or the one it replied to said anything about rend
Get your eyes checked user

It also doesn't change how fucking stupid this argument is. Rend isn't worth the money you pay for it. It's better saved for a mount or anything else.

What should I invest in as a hunter to survive melee range?

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>Why are you fucking dumbasses even arguing about rend and HS at 40 when you have both Whirlwind and Mortal Strike by then?
>arguing about rend and HS at 40
>rend and HS
>REND
Dude you unironically need to get your brain checked out. What the fuck is wrong with you.

I don't know what post you're quoting but it's not mine and has nothing to do with my post or the point it made
Like I just said, get your eyes checked

What game is this?

How does anything you just said relate at all to how pointless it is to argue about Rend vs. Heroic Strike at level 40 when you should be prioritizing neither of those abilities.

What in the holy fuck does that have to do with my original post? Where in the fuck in do I say you should be leveling as fury or arms? It's not even on the table there.

You are a fucking shizo jesus christ.
This is your post, yes? Hey take a look at the post you were responding to:
Oh wow the post you were responding to was talking about rend, the post i just copied and pasted for your retarded ass.

>How does anything you just said relate at all to how pointless it is to argue about Rend vs. Heroic Strike at level 40 when you should be prioritizing neither of those abilities.
It doesn't you fucking retard, that's my point
You either think another post I didn't make is also me or you misread a link or something

I played a hunter on nostalrius til level 35ish and stacked stamina and went survival for the dwarven constitution and i was pretty well ungankable. +25% parry and dodge is excellent and no one seems to expect it. stacking hp is really nice since people blow their load when they gank you then just poke you for white damage and you can turn it around on them.

Wing Clip.

a brain

>it doesn't you fucking retard, that's my point

Why in the fuck are you talking to me, autismo?

The only shit I'm talking about is the stupid argument going on for the last hundred posts I've seen. The least this thread needs is some windowlicker like you adding to the stupidity.

>being this fucking assblasted that you can't read
wew laddie

So uhh, how's Bloodthirst?

>being this fucking stupid you can't just back out of a discussion you're clearly too incompetent to understand.

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Fury duel wield is very dependent on +hit gear to work.
You level as two handed because you don't get the miss penalty. Arms is generally considered better for levelling because it supports 2 handed weapons more. This is the same reason why the best spec to level as Rogue is Combat, because they get a talent that gives them +5% hit.
In the early 50's you can start getting some +hit gear. When you get roughly +4% hit, then you can respec to fury and DW to 60.
Yes, DW fury is fine for PvP. You don't have as much burst or heal denial as Arms, but you're not as reliant on crits. Like any Warrior, having back up or a healer is crucial.

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What, you've never seen a poser before?

Pretty fun. Being a warrior at 40 is good

Finally an intelligent warrior post in this thread.

I am pretty sure he's a retard who accidentally replied to the wrong post. Literally nothing he has said has made any kind of coherent sense and he has contradicted himself multiple times.
Also kind of funny he keeps saying other people can't read meanwhile not only did he reply to the wrong post and not even read it correctly, but he has been able to correctly read a single reply because he just keeps repeating the same things we already said.

what talents should i have for warrior tanking early game tho?

>warrior cringe thread

Typical meat head shitters

Just arms or fury.
You should not be putting a single point into prot unless you are 60 and are a raid tank. Even 60 dungeons like strat are easily tanked as fury or arms.

Magefaggots have to be the worst pieces of shit in this game. What a braindead whack a mole retard class with a cool down for everything.

It doesn't really matter. Early Stance Mastery/anger management is the only thing that gives a big advantage because you can mocking blow, berserker rage, and everything else without feeling rage starved.

Tactical Mastery 5/5 and Anger Management

Are people ITT actually defending Heroic Strike as anything other than a last resort rage dump?

nope. HS as an ability factors in two numbers for dmg. White AA dmg + HS dmg added = the big yellow number your tiny brain sees after you have pressed HS

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For 60? No.
For leveling up before 40? Yes.

>there are people in this thread that bought all ranks of rend
>there are people in this thread who skip the Rethban gauntlet cause it's too hard for them
>There are people in this thread who spec prot and don't use shield slam.

Warrior truly is a shitter class.

Worthless until you have decent gear and it actually starts to deal damage. With shit gear you spec into it for raids only because it doesn't debuff like ms

80% of nu-classic warriors are Asmongold fans. Are you surprised?

Pserver babs

I'm sorry about your illiteracy user but you should probably stop posting lest you continue making a bigger and bigger ass out of yourself

>old wow
>warriors at cap are rare because the class isn't solo friendly and people don't understand it

>classic
>warriors are fucking everywhere, plenty are capped or near, and spamming Trade looking for tanks. People still don't understand warrior.

it's poetry

Being stuck with it doesn't mean it isn't terrible though, and Sunder Armor is unironically better damage/rage if you put one or two on something while it's still fullish HP.

When your build does 30% less dps with no benefits at all and you insist that it's good then yeah, you're going to get shit on.

Dear warfaggots,

Pick up the two hander and go arms. Stop trying to block shit. Just fucking aoe the shit out of packs then fuck off after you get initial threat.

even worse
>there are people in this thread that wasted 1 silver on rank 1 rend

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(you)

>>warriors at cap are rare because the class isn't solo friendly and people don't understand it

They also werent good dps in the earlier raids in vanilla but since classic is on a later patch theyre good right from the start.

t. lvl 23 that just tanked deadmines with a 2 hander and thinks he knows how to play warrior

Well you should get rank 1 so you can fuck with the dozen rogues that will try to gank you.

>there are people ITT who unironically think Rend is bad damage/rage for the first 20-30 levels and are poor enough to try to justify this

2/10

Considering when you could be doing more damage with what rage you have, instead of wasting 10 rage on a dot that wont even 3 ticks in. Yeah, rend is shit

At least they're in a better state than Paladin unless I'm doing something fundamentally wrong as a ProtPaladin.

>spending 15+an auto's worth of rage on HS unconditionally
lol

>tfw want classic+ so people stop calling my spec shit
H-Home soon, right bros?

>the first 20-30 levels matter

that's not even half your playtime. 40-60 is the real grind. Rend is only good to dot a slippery rogue. Trying to act like you're king of the castle because you're optimally playing level 20-30 is like singing your praises because you play good football in the 6th grade.

Dual wield mace spec + improved revenge
am I crazy?

And that's clearly not what I was talking about, dumbass.

And what you're talking about is so meaningless that nobody should really give a shit.

prot paladin is objectively better than warriors at tanking anything that isn't a boss, but since warrior is the only one that ignores crushing blows you get fucked

(you)

Rogue or Warrior, which is the more enjoyable melee dps? Which is more viable at what parts of the game?

rogues are better at every stage of classic, don't fall for the memes. rogue is pretty fun as well since you don't get cucked by threat since you can feint

I wouldn't hate meme specs if the people playing them weren't always so stupid.

I mean, if there's a sheep, don't hit it. What does the ret pally do? fucking pop sheep and start trying to bring jesus to it. What does the boomkin do (the one I met)? rush into melee with me and the other dps and start beating ass with a staff and full mana bar.

I mean, I respect people trying to make something bad work. But sometimes, I feel it's just the snowflakes going for this crap.

>rogues are better at every stage of classic
This screams of butthurt rogue. Rogues are good and if that's your class that's your class. But you gain nothing from living in delusion and pretending warriors are not the best dps in the game at every stage.

thank you for responding to my objective fact about this objectively dumb argument.

That explains why I find tanking bosses to be an uphill battle...

homie I'm a ret paladin, I don't have a dog in this fight. but unless you are literally just doing farm runs with complete max gear rogues always pull ahead

just keep your engi at 300 and you'll be welcome to tank raids. The bombs really help with keeping threat through longer fights, dont neglect them. especially since this is classic, and literally everything is easier than the private servers

dps warriors are cringe and seeing them beg for BiS items because 'muh dps' only to get poached to be a tank for Four Horsemen is a story as old as time.

>"Hey guys, we need an off-tank for this boss add"
>*silence from the 7 rogues in raid*
>"Oh, hey thanks Fury Warrior Jim!"
>"Here's Strikers Mark for actually being useful in the raid tonight!".

Why would a raid not have off tanks in the first place?

But that's literally factually not true. Warriors are straight up stronger and better dps no matter how you swing it.
That's like trying to say BWL is the first raid of classic and not MC. You can say it all you want but that's just verifiably not true.

A good fury warrior is happy to tank for Four Horseman. A good fury warrior understands his role as being a utility tank as well as dps.

>Main tank dies with boss on 10%
>Fury warrior puts on his shield, pops shield wall and saves the day.

warriors literally can't until the tanks vastly outgear the content, this is objective fact. by the time warriors can out dps rogues its already farm content where half of the raid can afk

but what about 2h fury

Because many fights require more than 2 tanks for adds?
Sulfuron has 4 adds that are in most cases tanked by fury warrior.

A good fury warrior is also rare, because the spec attracts the same kinda shitty people that rogues used to.

You ever see a team of five fury warriors fail to have a single piece of tanking gear on them when raid lead specified it was absolutely necessary for a whole host of reasons? I did, in Naxx on Four Horsemen of all places.

Good fury warriors are great, but the class's dps numbers became a meme that attracts memeing players.

Warriors are only the best dps in the game geared at endgame.

I'm going mace warrior, I'm gonna be unique

Fury Warriors actually drop off around AQ40.
They're still considered amazing because of their utility, but they are only DPS gods in MC and BWL.

Buddy whether you're in full BiS gear farming naxx or you're relatively fresh 60 and everyone has mostly pre-raid BiS, warriors are still king. I just don't know what else to say to you. This is literally factually true and how reality is. Nothing you say or believe will change that. This is verified by dozens of private servers over the years and how classic is currently going.

which is why every serious progression guild would take 7 rogues and 10 mages before even considering a dps warrior

Retards gonna retard. Not my fault some people are stupid and uneducated. Also not my problem as i'm not raiding with retards.

I swear to god every one of these threads has a dps warrior come out of the woodwork proclaiming that he is god and king of the lesser dps because he can tank and pull mad numbers on raids that are on farm.

Still happy that TBC was the day of rake for warriors.

If you're raiding you are a retard, and are therefore raiding with other retards lmao

>First MC pug as a tank
>Clear up to Golemagg only because we don't have the waters for Domo/Rag
>Come out of it with Eskhandar's Claw and Might Boots

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Ninja

yeah, those fights that literally take 40 seconds really show me

How was TBC day of the rake for warriors? They dominated PvP the entire expansion with storm herald and they were really strong in PvE. This time rogues actually really were better dps, but warrior was not far behind. Close enough that tons of guilds gave fury warriors glaives anyway.

Both are viable. Rogue is far more cheesier though, and more enjoyable.

No user. I just ended up rolling some good numbers when it mattered for once.

>BRING ON THE PANDAS hahAAA

Blacklisted

>storm herald

TY for reminding me why I will never play tbc classic

Greenlisted

>2/3 imp shield block

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Whitelisted

This

Purplelisted

dorf uses racial, heh nothing personel kidder

master bait

Keep yur feet on tha ground

No self-respecting rogue should leave home without one of these.

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i put 2 points into intensity rather than cataclysm in the destro tree so hellfire doesn't get interrupted, it's helpful in dungeons which is like 80% of the content right now

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Absolutely based spec. Showing these retail brainlets that not every class needs to go all the way to the 40 talent to whip other players

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you're a fucking retard. The reason they removed talents in retail is because of try hard faggots that have cookie cutter builds "X is the best for Y class" talents. This cunt is at least trying to do something different, even if he totally fails.

why is everyone so fucking retarded in this thread, god warrior players are unbelievable

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Please stop being a retard, there is absolutely a lot of room for custom builds and creative stuff but is just bad.
The ability to make shit builds doesn't mean only one build is good.

Thanks doc!

I want to be a gud warrior boy, but I don't know asshole to believe

Warlocks really don't need their bottom talents.

deja character stats

Warriors are the new Huntards, user. Idiots flocked to it because streamers told them it was the best class

no it doesn't scale you retard that's not what scale means

Do not believe any poster that proclaims Rend as a good use of rage. Filter that out, and you've got solid advice from many anons.

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>lightwell
>you’re actually gimped for taking it
You’re right about Disc and Shadow though

WW axe has a replacement at like 37-8 for alliance from the SM quest, so I never understood its legendary status. Yeah, its great if you get someone to help you have it at 30, but while everyone is levelling? No way before 34-5.

I kick warriors who don't rend
literally get good

I've never really understood the massive hardon people have for it either. WW axe is great but like you said it gets replaced pretty easy.
For alliance especially you get a straight upgrade axe from the SM quest which is like two levels later. The polearm from ZF would be an upgrade also which is only a couple of levels later as well.
This is not including BoE weapons you can buy which i know there are a few that are stronger than WW axe.

>telling someone to 'get gud' when they already know more and are better than you
top kek

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Once they're geared enough, you can't just PoM-Pyro anymore.

once again, anyone that believes rend is a good use of rage is a retail tourist feeding you disinformation

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Sadly mage is just a hard counter to warrior in general. Anyone who plays a mage that at least knows how to tie their shoelaces will beat a warrior that is better than them everytime. You just can't keep up with the freezes unless you get some extreme RNG or they get extreme bad RNG.

This. Mages learn the ultimate counter to warriors at level 4. Frostbolt Rank 1, fast castime and a hefty slow stops any melee in their tracks

Which classes are the least played in Classic? It looks like Hunter, Druid, and Rogue to me.

druid by a fucking mile

It doesn't have the same damage per rage, you spend 15 rage plus the rage you lose from missing out on a white attack, meaning the faster your weapon is and the less damage it does per swing, the less rage heroic strike costs. Examples:
Two hander nets me 15 rage on normal swing + 15 rage cost of heroic = 30 rage cost
Quick one hander nets me maybe 5 rage on normal swing + rage cost of heroic = 20 rage cost with the quicker weapon

Heroic adds the exact same damage and threat to your swing no matter weapon speed, therefor rage cost goes down the faster your weapon swing is.

druid because druids suck at literlaly everything

>he doesn't know about engineering ice deflector
i use it to wreck mages as ret pally but it works great on war too

>^)

Incrementally faster kills throughout ur leveling gets you to higher levels faster which gets you more money per time and better items in the long run than saving 1g on training rend. I'll agree after you get whirlwind and mortal strike you can skip it safely though

>he doesn't run ice deflector on his mage to re-deflect the frostbolt
yikes, dude.

im actually a paladin guy myself. BoF fucks over mages too. The ice deflector is icing on the cake just to stop those high crits from frost mages. warriors are a bit fucked without BoF against a mage, since you cant use the ice deflector for an entire fight

cant wait brother!

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I almost rerolled from my lock until I respecd to SM/Ruin. So good. The Afflic/Demo build everyone recommends for leveling is fucking trash.

Is engineering worth taking if you're not planning to pvp?

This is my first time playing wow. I played rift in the past as a dps but now I want to be a tank.
Do I just dump all points into protection?

sorta, all the engie shit is useful everywhere

yes, definetly, dynamites and nades are free damage and stuns, the gadgets can be used in many situations but they can backfire, stuff like jumper cables should be mandatory for class that can drop combat like hunter and rogue, stuff like cloaking device can help you skip shit now and then, combat pets can be a minor boost in some fights, there's really no reason to not have engineering specially because it's so god damn cheap, it's like 60g to max depending on server.

Don't buy any skills except Rend, itll top your dps charts and level u faster than light. don't waste any talent points into skills that don't affect rend, its a HUGE ability. You need it. Youre rage per minute will fly high. i guarentee it
t. warrior main that loves rend and also taking dicks up my ass

Dude it's a shit ability and having to wait for it's duration to end to make full use of it suck even more. Grab it because it's your only dot for rogues, but It's garbage otherwise and the amount of defense I've seen for it in this thread is just fucking sad.

If you want to tank early, go arms and get stance mastery and anger management.

It let's you rock around with mocking blow and berserker rage for example as well as cheeky whirlwinds. It's so good that most endgame tank builds I've seen incorporate it.

Full prot isn't necessary for tanking and dungeons are so piss easy that you'll tank easily as fury or arms with a ret-spec'ed healer.

Only in TBC did dungeons start to get a little bullshit, and only really in heroics.

Dark Pact useless? It basically doubles your mana pool and spirit while questing. Once I got it, I started dark pacting after every mob I killed and love it. Super useful for drain tanking

>t. triggered retard who's mad about people telling him Rend is good in general for part of the game and against rogues always

It absolutely is a shit ability, but it's the only thing you have to make killing faster early on, and you don't HAVE to wait for it, if you kill the mob faster great, you probably just crit a bunch and good for you, however if it's one of those fights where you miss a ton or just white hit for normals damage and it takes 20-30 seconds, rend is a good source of damage to speed things along a bit

It's premo for leveling

Rend is a garbage ability.

I wonder how many of the absolute downie retard warrior tourists here are just assmongol spergs.

Dont use rend, dont use heroic strike.
Use slam or whirlwind.

> you don't HAVE to wait for it,

ten rage or not, it's wasted if you don't let it do full deeps

Even with new level meta it's garbage because sunder is received early enough and you should absolutely dump rage into that before a rend.

Any fight where you're going to miss alot is you being underleveled, which rend won't save you from.

I'd even argue whether it's all that good for rogues anyways since anyone pvp'ing with a brain will have a luffa or dwarven racial and wpvp is usually just you getting ganked by a high level which rend sure as shit won't help.

Early on warrior leveling is boring no matter what you do but the 1-20 bracket shoots by so fast that I've never bothered grabbing rend and never once missed it while leveling.

Best advice out there is to skip it and use the rage for anything else and HS when you're looking to dump.

Imagine putting points into defensive talents, just imagine being a defence cuck.

Rend is good early on, and that's it. You don't have to wait for Rend's duration to end for it to outvalue Heroic Strike in term of damage/rage, which is the thing worth comparing it against since Rend most people defending it that I've seen have been talking about the early leveling (aside from the obvious PVP use against rogues).

>Rend 1: 10 rage -> 15 damage/9sec
>Rend 2: 10 rage -> 28d/12s
>Rend 3: 10 rage -> 45d/15s
>Rend 4: 10 rage -> 66d/18s (most people who selectively skill train and do train it, tend to stop training it at Rank 3 though)
Versus
>Heroic Strike 1: 15 rage PLUS YOUR NEXT AUTO ATTACK'S RAGE -> weapon damage + 11
>Heroic Strike 2: 15 rage plus your next auto attack's rage -> weapon damage + 21
>Heroic Strike 3: 15 rage plus your next auto attack's rage -> weapon damage + 32
>Heroic Strike 4: 15 rage plus your next auto attack's rage -> weapon damage + 44

Since most people are running a 2hander, that's a lot of rage you're spending on Heroic Strike by replacing your next auto attack with it, and for a pretty piddling amount of bonus damage. You'll still be forced to use HS for a long time, but slapping a rend on something you won't 3 shot when combat starts will still likely be a worthwhile investment since you'll probably be fighting it for more than a few seconds. Rend ticks every 3 seconds, doing 4, 6, 8, and 10 damage per tick in order of rank 1-4. If you fight something for 6-9 seconds, which is reasonable with a 2H weapon, you'll still be getting better value off it than a Heroic Strike. It's not a ton of damage, but you only spend 10 rage and also didn't waste the rage you would get from an auto attack. Once you get stuff like Sweeping Strikes, Whirlwind, and Mortal Strike, Rend becomes mostly useless though.

Worth noting, Arms warriors get bonus damage to their Rend through a talent that every Arms warr puts 3 points into in order to get to Deep Wounds and Impale, so with talents you'll be doing more than I showed above.

>there are people in this thread who skip the Rethban gauntlet cause it's too hard for them
actually disgusting

I kick any warrtard that uses rend, just like in real vanilla.

That rage is wasted and should have been saved for whirlwind, bloodthirst or slam, or hell, you could even l2p and use it on hamstring to fish for crits

At what level does it stop being usable?

5

it's amazing how after 10 years of poopsock private server min maxing youre the only person with this garbage opinion on warrior leveling

Do I wanna go full Sub for vigor?

Fuck me I meant Assassination

How the fuck is slam better

no, 10 energy isn't worth a single talent point

I'm level 7 and my rend does more damage per rage than heroic strike does

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Alright

Depends on how fast you kill the mobs you're fighting. Not past the 20s or MAYBE the early 30s though.

is the wait killing you?

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Even if you get whirlwind axe at level 30, you can't kill mobs your level faster than a rend duration

Yeah I couldn't remember what the early 30s were like on my pserver warrior. You're probably right. Although, I think it's generally a good move to be grinding greens rather than yellows as a warrior. You'd probably get your money's worth from Rend in either case though.

big brain

God I forgot how squishy Rogues could be, time to fuck off from Loch Modan to Westfall. The pains of playing at 1am and trying to do mob dense quests areas.

Yea Forums

Let's make his Arms/Prot hybrid build work

Vanilla Warrior PVP was fucking hilarious. 1 shotting Clothies just by running to them and smacking them is some funny shit

CLEAVEEE

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Little did you know that Dark Pact gives you infinite mana when using the imp.

Check out my epic Balancedruid with feral talents

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You dont need more than 3 points on Demo Shout.

kek. 6/10, a little too obvious though.

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ah...

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>not going for the stunning chance

don't make me change my talentz

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All right, Im going to give classic a try, which server are the more balanced?

seething warrcuck

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>MFW Playing classic and once again I'am reaffirmed that the Burning Crusade was a better game.

Holy fuck gimme the BC servers please Elementalist is only slightly better then Enh on classic.

no thanks

Because WW axe looks legitimately fucking awesome, there's lvl 60 axes that dont look nearly as cool as that. Put a glowing enchant on it and you feel like a god compared to your lvl 30 peers.

>shit pvp
>arena
>flying mounts
>belves
get fucked

>belfs

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The wait for you to die from your terminal brain tumour? No but it's killing you

Why would you get deterrence. Never go full survival

Okay friends, it's decided. I'm going to actually roll a Pally and I'm looking for some advice.

>What's a decent EU server for Alliance? Can't be Mog.
>How's this guide for levelling? Do I play as ret for the most part?
icy-veins.com/wow-classic/classic-paladin-leveling-guide

The idea of the AFK mob shit while spamming judgement on repeat sounded fun.

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It's fine except maybe for PvP but you're often pretty screwed there anyway if you're on your own, the miss miss miss thing is an endgame meme and I honestly find it more painful when you're swinging a slow ass 2hander and you miss.

life tap gives you infinite mana regardless of pet, ruin is one of the most important dps talents for any warlock spec.

>>What's a decent EU server for Alliance? Can't be Mog.
they're all horde favoured. maybe firemaw is the least horde favoured.

mate 11% crit, 33% faster casting and double damage crits for ele are real good talents

Obviously if you're talking raids or instances, you already have a healer and absolutely don't want your pet to be totally useless. But infinite mana when solo without losing a single % of hp for it is its own story.

>cant get enough money for a mount by 40
>doesnt see that TC gets increased duration by rank
True moron

Damage per rage isn't the important part, it's damage per second.
And faster weapons provide that bonus damage (and bonus threat) from heroic strike more often than slower weapons.

Simple as.

It's mages in my experience, goddamn spellcleaving, aoe-grinding retards all of them.
Still leveling a farming mage of my own, though.

There are people in this thread who don't use sunder armor to fish for dodges and procs.

I know. This whole thread is full of horrifying ignorance

There are people who are too casual to play Protwarrior