What games have the best stealth mechanics?

"Good" and "realistic" aren't the same thing. Real life is a shit videogame.

Its only bright for you. Its for the player to see where Sam is. For everyone else its pitch black and there is no light coming from them.

they were not actually visible to anyone, but the player, for obvious gameplay mechanics

Yeah basically this.
It would be more interesting if you actually had to act smart and confuse the enemy in a realistic way.

how stupid do you feel right now?

Stealth based solely on line of sight is about the worst way to handle stealth. See: Just about every Metal Gear game.

>Memehackifags will defend this

Based retard.

Nobody said you can't incorporate sound in some way, but in the majority of cases the game caring about sound actually just translates to "Player character has to move at tortoise speed around any enemies".
Sekiro doesn't force that, which is a good thing.

Except MGS is based heavily on noise and environment as well.

Pretty sure everyone on this board agrees Sekiro was mediocrity incarnate.

not that one

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It's not. Go play Hitman or Thief, if you want environmental based stealth gameplay.

Except it is. Hitman is a completely different type of game.

It's not. Just about every environment in MGS is static and lacks any sort of dynamic gameplay systems.

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I don't get it, why are those people falling over and jumping off a cliff?

literally all MGS games have methods to break the AIs pathing so that you can come up with way to 'stealth'

It can be as basic as throwing a clip, or knocking on a wall or even leaving footprints form blood/snow/water. Or catching a cold and sneezing unexpectedly.

>literally

Name one without any of those things

Yeah, they LITERALLY do.

Survive

Metal Gear Survive is not a Metal Gear SOLID game.

Thats like fucking saying Metal Gear 1 didn't have those things so it doesn't count.

>Thief 1 or 2
>startle the guards
>they aggressively move through shadows to find you
>they'll run for help if they can't get you
>they'll be on heightened alert for the rest of the mission, they'll eventually resume patrols but those bastards will listen for you walking behind them and instead of saying "who goes there" they'll wait until you're right behind them and then turn around at the last second and stab you

Based and Thiefpilled.

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Survive has lures you can use.

Almost every game with "Stealth" has distractions though. In Thief, the environment dictated where you go, how fast you could get there and how long you could stay there.

Modern ubisoft games of course.

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>harder difficulties actually add more content and objectives to steal instead of just bullet sponge enemies / lower health

Unbelievable how far ahead Thief was.

From is a pathetic company

>and thats a good thing, heres why

Thief 2 still has the best stealth. It is a travesty.

How come basically no other games have this mechanic today?

Because it's too realistic for normie players?

The only respectable way to play stealth is to go for ghost and adapt if you fuck up.

>From is a pathetic compan-

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hey dude fucking autism am i right dude my fucking sister refused my advances again holy shit dude nice fucking post wow man never thought of it like that fucking nice dude maybe you can convince my sister to do a threesome i don't think i would mind touching dicks with you dude

thief 1 and 2
splinter cell chaos theory
hitman blood money

Chaos Theory indeed was exemplary.
Excep iirc all early Splinter Cell games had the same ridiculous damage amounts from weapons. e.g. shoot a guy in the back once with silenced pistol and it has the stopping power of a rubber bullet. Always had to get a clean head shot or shoot several times, otherwise they would just get alerted.

>take out solider who is hooked up with nanomachines that let other soliders know where they are at all times

Holy based.

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Someone post the pasta

The Valve syndrome
Too hard to develop, just pump out the bare minimum for ai's. Shame too, considering the potential for smart ai's.

It's a good thing because it lets you play at the pace that you're able to make decisions at instead of being forced to wait constantly for the game to let you play. Are you retarded?

>He hasn't played FEAR

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Imagine being The guard in that scene and having to be all like "damn, Fisher, where did ya go, all invisible and shit, with your body in the shadows. I totaly cannot see you right there over me with a giant bulb of light behind you. when all he really wants to do is shot the fucking guy right in the balls. Like seriously imagine having to be Soldier and not only have to ignore the guy in plain fucking sight right in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing the giant 3 green lights he carries his head, while he just sits there, ,load after load, until he perfected the take down. Not only having to tolerate the fucking audacity of hiding in plain fucking sight but her haughty attitude as everyone on here tells you that DANM THATS THE BEST STEALTH GAME EVER MADE. WHERE DID FISHER GO??? IS HE INVISIBLE OR SOMETHING??? because they're not the ones who have to walk pass there and watch the fucking elephant in the room jump from 2m onto the ground making the biggest sound in the world and you have to act like you didnt noticed it. You trained your entire life in the best boot camps in russia and was survived war zones that were considered suicide missions your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in Afeganistam. You've never even seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on his fucking balls while he just hangs in there waiting for you to pass, smugly assured that you are oblivious to the king of stealth(for that is what he calls himself)" , the stealth he worked so hard breaking every single light bulb in the previous room's. And then the player reloads again, and you know you could kill the fucker before he even finishes climbing the wall, but you sit there and endure, because you're fucking Professional. You're not going to lose your future main character status in a generic FPS game over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.

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Absolutely based.

vocaroo.com/i/s1y3EQ879tuG

Sekiro isn't really a stealth game, the stealth is there to be the replacement "easy mode" with the removal of summoning. Instead of having 3 overleveled phantoms r1 spam every enemy to death, you can abuse the basic AI to instant kill almost everything but bosses if you're willing to be patient enough, and can even often get a free boss healthbar from it. It's not particularly fun, but neither is being the phantommancer, and it serves it's purpose.

It actually does it pretty tidily, too, since even if you aren't relying on it completely to replace the primary gameplay you can still use it on particular enemies that are troubling or as a fast way to clear a group once you're familiar with their positioning and don't want to bother with the actual fight for the Nth time.
Don't think of it as a game where the goal is to quietly and secretly eliminate everyone without being noticed, you're there to dive out of the sky onto some cunt and ruin his day, ram your sword through another guy's back before they realize you're there, then fight the rest head on, and if you start losing you can dip out and start the encounter back in your favor with another stealth kill.
Yeah if you want to you can make it un-fun for yourself but why would you?

>It's 2011, yet technology from 2005 is still the benchmark.
That is one sad story, developers still doesn't want to spend more than one hamburger on AI.

based

>Sekiro isn't really a stealth game
Why is it such a big component of the core gameplay, then? Numerous levels are blatantly arranged in a way that overtly encourages stealth.

Because stealth kills look cool and in some places they're faster than fighting normally and in a well designed area can chain together in an entertaining way.
It is part of the game, they shouldn't completely ignore it, but the combat is 90% of the draw. You don't play Sekiro because you liked Theif, you play it because you liked Bloodborne.

But Sekiro plays nothing like Bloodborne.

Even less like Thief

Why is From so shit at AI?

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Commandos has a great way of punishing the player for being detected by having more guards patrol additional areas. It's a shame that didn't become a standard.

Behind Enemy Lines is one of the best games of all time.

I wonder if the Steam version has updated resolution support? I just checked a vid on YT and it looked horrid. But I remember the game fondly.

this is the way to do stealth correctly.

GOG version is good. You can get 1 and 2 bundled together for like $5.

I remember playing thief 2 without any textures because my computer wasn't good enough to run it. Those were the days.

I liked Sekiro a lot but holy shit the stealth mechanics are some asscreed-tier shit

they're worse than asscreed

enemies don't have any AI to notice dead bodies

Don't be dumb, even AC has better stealth than Sekiro.

Why is stealth the only genre Japan can't do right at all?

they can't do strategy games either

Final Fantasy is quite strategic imo

>Shooters
>Strategy
>RPGs
Japan can't do these either.

The game felt pretty assassins creed in the beginning.

So it's stealth for soibois

That's MGS.

>if you're willing to be patient enough
You're not even forced to be patient, once you know how things are laid out and have a route in mind you can blast straight through the levels using stealth kills because the game treats you as a Shinobi instead of some random joe wearing clogs.

youtube.com/watch?v=sB_iGKFmdR8

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is Styx a good stealth series?

Not modern ones, that's for sure.

Thankfully, the older ones were pretty good in that department.

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MGS3 still BTFOs any Western third person stealth game and most Western games in general

is there a game that features "unconventional" stealth, like the enemies are not human or something so you have to something different instead of hiding while holding crouch

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Thief 1 n 2

>Movie Gear Reddit

holy BASED

>Says the Redditor

I'm not the one praising a shallow movie game.

stealth is shameful to the family

Deus EX

Or just blackjack all the guards and stroll through the level.
Good games but the blackjack is a broken mechanic.

Why did AI peak in the late 90s?

>What is FEAR

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wait when did Peterson do a lecture on chaos theorem?

It's an eerily accurate deep fake.

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I'm so fucking tired of this meme being spread after it's been shattered by the devs themselves repeatedly. They're basic AI, all they do is use callouts more frequently to appear more intelligent. Fear AI is retarded as fuck and you can get it to get stuck on the map running back and forth between the same spot just by standing too close to a corner or under a ledge.
Go back to Reddít.

Based.

I played through FEAR a few months ago, this is accurate. I did not notice them being as exceptional as people keep saying.

Third person games are not real stealth games.

I played through FEAR a few months ago, this is not accurate. I did notice them being as exceptionl as people keep saying.

I didn't play FEAR ever, this is ambiguous to its accuracy. I didn't notice expectoration at all as people keep saying.

It's more
>lower difficulties lock you out of content because fuck you
...and that's a good thing!

Ghosting a level on expert feels orgasmic though.

Thief 1 and 2. What kind of retarded question is that?

why?

>Sekiro has shit stealt-

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You can peek around corners without ever being in danger.

Any game that lets you look around corners without risking the character being seen is not a proper stealth game.

who are you quoting?

Why does Yea Forums still praise this game as if it's some pinnacle of gameplay?

>That
>Good

>What is Chaos Theory
>What is Blood Money

Hard to code.

I dont think nobody ever tried to do the Thief sound propagation trick quite the same way.

Pretty sure the majority of the board considers Sekiro to be mediocrity incarnate. It's pretty much already forgotten about and it almost never shows up in 3x3 threads.

Great games, but they're not pure stealth like Thief is where if you want to see what's around a corner, chances are you risk being seen.

they're shit

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>to do the Thief sound propagation trick quite the same way.
System Shock 2

The upcoming indie title Gloomwood seems to have a very similar sound propagation system. R6 Siege actually has a pretty damn good sound propagation system as well.

Of course SS2 is implied its the same fucking engine.

I kinda agree with you, for the action title sekiro is, the stealth is fine.

>R6 Siege

Isnt that just multiplayer? For me Rainbow six is dead since raven shield.
Rainbow went from a niche military tactics title whose first quote in the manual was from von Clausewitz to being just fucking normie trash.

I have seen Gloomwood, honestly it looks terrible. Its not that I dont like the dusk low poly aesthetic even If I dont like dusk all that much. Rather play arcane dimensions.

Are there ANY games that are comparable to the ludo that is Thief?

Do sex is at the very least close.

It is multiplayer only, yeah.

Splinter Cell is the one who copied it most successfully, hence why its talked a lot.

And its still a fun franchise up to chaos theory, it has the darkness mechanics, footsteps are simplified, and levels less complex compared to thief but has cool stuff like those special move knockdowns.

Its experimental and innovative. Hence western. Doesnt mean they haven't tried. MG is fine and simple.

Aside from Chaos Theory, which Splinter Cells are worth checking out? Chaos Theory is the only one I ever hear people talking about.

None that's why no one talks about them.

The first two are janky but okay. I liked them back in the day. Good for a single run.

Chaos Theory is like the culmination of the first experiments. Some levels almost approach the Thief free form sandboxy contained shit.

It doesn't lock you out of anything. All the rooms, the loot are the same. Instead of collecting 500 gold/worth on Normal, you have to collect 1000 on Expert. It makes you explore and do more of the map since its required to finish, while on Normal or Easy you can do very little and escape.

What I find really amazing about Thief is how it really survived so long and the community so strong it almost reaches Doom.

When its a game that for some reason looks terrible on screenshots and you never see it here, and bad on stuff like youtube or streaming. Yet when I pop it up and the setting and sound design kicks in, shit its so fucking good.

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Fpwp...
(First post worst post)
You don't like stealth & might not be patient or good enough for it, ok ok.
A good stealth game allows the most skilled people to leave no trace behind or, even better, ghost the game entirely.

DOOM and Thief I/II are unironically top 25 games of all time. They have a very clear focus and they execute said focus with masterful execution, near flawless.
If they shortened the final level and combined Casing the Joint and Masks into one mission, I would consider Thief II the best game of all time.

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Agreed. I still prefer Thief 1 personally cause I love tomb raiding. But yeah.

Tenchu?! MGS?!!!

Yes.

What kind of comment is this?...

the original tenchu aged like milk and the sequels are garbage. metal gear was never good.

tenchu has one of the worst cameras ever implemented in a video game.

Have you played Sekiro?

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The biggest problem with Tenchu imo is the piss-poor draw distance. Increase it/remove it and the game becomes far better I bet.

Still waiting for a Western game to come out with a comparable level of detail to MGS3.

Sekiro is not a stealth game, but I enjoyed it so much and it is so good that I forget it and I treat it like one.

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What detail I never understood this? I liked the game but its just mgs in a low poly jungle. You mean the bosses gimmicks? The story?
What?

I am serious. Deus Ex was already doing big freeform levels intertwined with story, and multiple levels of gameplay in fucking 2000.

The ps2 version of Double Agent was excellent, unfortunately the PC/360 version was developed by a different studio and is not nearly as good.

Rainbow Six Siege, because when you sneak up on a roamer as Nokk and murder them or get behind a group of three and put them all down as Caveira you know it was because you were genuinely stealthy and not because you exploited some failing in an enemy's AI.

Bloodborne

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I dunno, in sniper elite the entire mob in your gunshot sound vicinity will try to murk you.

Injury system, catching illnesses from the weather, sneezing and laser sights that reveal your location, having to hunt food to avoid starvation, being able to destroy enemy's food, shoot their radios etc. No Western game simulates all these aspects as MGS3 did.

Play Styx: Shards of Darkness. Its unrionically the best stealth game in at least a decade.

What went right?

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For me, it's the sleepwalker.

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Nintendo fanboys will eat whatever's shat into their mouth.

wtf, that's so convincingly peterson. this is crazy. now I wanna hear some of the peterson fake pastas out there, stuff involving archetypes, jungian, post-modernism, universities / the campus, the left, you better well hope, bloody this, bloody that etc.

Tenchu Z was my favorite stealth game.

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Objectively wrong wtf. First most famous example I can think of is bonehoard which has two entire treasury rooms locked on normal, one of them on hard, and expert being the only difficulty where the entire level is accessible

There is nothing in these two areas in the modes where they're locked.

This was a pretty interesting game honestly, with a weird nice MC and story.

Better than dishonored which was all looks no substance. Cant believe it got a sequel with stephen doin VA.

Arkane really got unlucky, prey was a weird mish mash of bioshock and SS2. They never had the balls to really make something unique like another arx fatalis.

huge gap between PC and console

nope. the PS2 was good enough to run Splinter Cell, the Xbox was powerful enough for Halo and Halo 2, the Xbox 360 / PS3 were good enough to run FEAR and Oblivion, the Xbone and PS4 could have run Crysis (the 7th gen port doesn't count imo, it was too stripped down from the real Crysis).
hardware has very little to do with it. if anything the priority of graphics is holding back AI: the number of NPCs active is being held back by the memory and processing time their geometry, shaders and animations eat up. the "brains" of the NPCs aren't what make them so expensive. you can parallelize AI and run it at very low rates (lower than even netcode, think single-digit Hertz) without the illusion suffering much. reaction time is at least 200 ms for instance so with as low as 5 Hz you would never get a sense that the AI is too slow to react.

graphics also require mathematically and spatially talented programmers, very similar talents to what an AI programmer would need, so you're emptying the pool of potential genius AI programmers by paying them shit-tons to focus on graphics.

I always felt that the enemies in that area should have been way more alert

I like the stealth in Hitman 2. It's still the same hide shit but the aspect of being compromised and being able to use disguises along with eliminating witnesses who can tattle on you is more than most stealth games do.

>graphics also require mathematically and spatially talented programmers

Yeah and this is why videogames will always be shit until we have a culture or society in which you teach kids how to code as you would how to read and write, then its going to be massive bonkers shit we start seeing.

Making a simple game is hard enough.

This nigger never heard of gameplay and story segregation.

meh. I think we're just asking for too much too soon. the medium is in its infancy. once we hit photo-realism at 100 fps graphics programming won't matter much any more. there will come a time when new rendering techniques are oddities nobody bothers with and it's possibly only a decade away. at that point graphics = artists, not programmers.
physics are pretty much figured out and we just need better hardware to push further in that dimension. so with physics and graphics "done" animations and AI will be the focus of progress. we just need to be patient until then. might take 20 years for some genuine breakthroughs to come (10 years until photo-realism, then 10 years of industry-wide research into better NPCs) but they'll be worth it.

Jesus fucking christ, imagine thinking this.

>I think we're just asking for too much too soon.

Yeah that is what I said. And we are getting there more slowly I say like 40 years. The infancy of games is certainly longer than movies.

The analogy of movies only goes so far, but its similar enough, we are in the early 30s compared to movies? Late 90s boom of gaming full of personality and filled to the brim with simulators, city builders, rts, fps etc solidified our age right now with concepts and experiments. Kinda like german expressionism. Thief is full of it.

In 2100 people will be playing (maybe) incredible shit at resolutions we can only dream off.

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Arx Fatalis was heavily inspired by Ultima Underworld, though.

I know.

Then Dark Messiah would've been a better exmaple, as its by far Arkane's most original project. No other ARPG has come close to its combat, aside from Dragon's Dogma.

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Both are very original. Arx was inspired by LGS games but had very interesting stuff going on. A mix of both would have been incredible.

But they caught a rough time to make games and consoles gobbled them up and age took care the rest. Harvey is a fag. Raphael left. Its dead now.

Metro 2033 for mechanics. Light + noise (glass on ground, tin can alarms)

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Still the best dungeon crawler ever made.

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Are the Metro games faithful recreations of real life Russian train systems?

you could really kick some ass in that game

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third person has its benefits

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What ludo is this?

shadow tactics: blades of the shogun
it revived the long dead tactical stealth genre started by commandos.

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How's it compare to the first two Commandos?

Probably not faithful, but based on a few of the Moscow lines IIRC. If you haven't played 2033, you should. Good level design, reminds me of Dishonored's levels on a smaller scale, lots of routes. Last Light is garbage btw

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Thoughts on Exodus?

personally i think it's more refined and balanced. there's a decent sized demo if you want to see for yourself. however it doesn't have the commandos approach to inventory, so unless if you really care about that, you should enjoy it. if you do care, there is an upcoming game by a different dev called partisans 1941 which is basically soviet commandos that does bring back its inventory system.

Thanks. I'll definitely check it out. The first two Commandos games are masterpieces, but I've yet to find anything else like them.
I recommend checking out Invisible Inc. It's a turn based tactics stealth game.

i think the second game is getting a remaster this winter. not sure why they skipped the first one entirely. i do have invisible inc. pretty good. i like most of klei's stuff.

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Based.
Mark of the Ninja is another favorite of mine.

Haven't played much of it, but not really my thing. Seems better than Last Light, but not really a "Metro" game. I have a laundry list of complaints about what they've done to the series. Basically a victim of its own success, the same trap that Dead Space and Mass Effect fell to. Seems to me the second games were the worst, and while the third games pretty much lost the thread of the series, they ironically ended up better than the second installments

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i wouldn't say its the best stealth 'mechanics' but i like when being stealthy is optional. like in nu TR and rise of the TR, i have fun sneaking around killing people but if i get caught i can just mow them down so it doesn't matter and it doesn't take away from the fun

You would often see older games do these kind of uncommon mechanics or design choices. This is because the game development industry wasn't as entrenched as it is now. Nowadays if you go outside of the box, if you think up uncommon game design decisions, if you don't follow the usual "accessibility" trends, etc... then your game is a big liability and you can't afford that.

Back then there wasn't one specific way of doing things, nowadays you see the same kind of shit come out from big companies, a lot of cross-pollination of ideas and companies copying other successful companies, up to a point where all Triple A games are a copypaste of each other as far as mechanics and storytelling goes. You also have colleges doing "game design" classes rehahshing the same old lessons from the past of those "successful" games, ingraining the same kind of principles in the mind of all new game designers, which end up making the same literal garbage as they get introduced in the industry.

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Explain Dustforce, then.

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MotN might be my favorite of theirs. Fear mechanics are so underutilized in the genre. The upgrade system is well done too. You either get an entirely new skill or a tangible improvement. None of that X% better skill tree bullshit.

Literally no one considers visual novels video games, unless it's shit like Danganronpa or Ace Attorney which requires you to do more than just read and make a choice every few hours.

You mean generic pixelated indie platformer #3563 that anyone can make in a few weeks/months as a prototype before bringing it to market?
I'm not saying that there are no games with new mechanics or whatnot, so you just providing one (tangentially relevant) counter example is not going to disprove my point. Moreso because this applies to Triple A games more than indie games, which can afford to be more daring when it comes to this stuff.

>Dustforce
>Generic
>Pixelated
Based retard.

>missing the point
literal brainlet

>vocaroo.com/i/s1y3EQ879tuG
post the gas station wine cooler one

Fuck off InfernoPlus.