>>Valve plans to appeal the ruling. “We disagree with the decision of the Paris Court of First Instance and will appeal it,” a Valve representative told Kotaku in an email. “The decision will have no effect on Steam while the case is on appeal.”
>Steam drones unironically defend Valve, a company trying to take away their consumer rights
When did you realise Tim was the hero and Gaben was the villain?
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Digital games were a mistake
You can resell games on EGS?
Why do you think this doesn't apply on epic?
>EGS will now need to implement a secondhand market place as well when they don't even have a shopping cart yet
OH NO NO NO NO
it will affect all digital stores steams just the biggest target atm.
download limit per purchase is what I meant.
>buy game
>can only download x number of times before no more download allowed
Kinda the same thing with DVD players in computers, how you can only change the region of the player 4 times before it's locked to the region it's set to.
Repost
So? Have offers, deals, extra content, etc that is given away when bought new that can't translate to be resold along with the license key
but why though?
Every online shop will be affected not only Steam, Steam is biggest one and attacking it is the hardest. Winning against Steam = winning against everyone.
Are there any French anons in this thread and what are your view on this?
Yeah if consumers are fucking dumb which i guess they are
But in no way will i ever personally ho with a streaming model for my video games even if it means new releases are played on console only for me
If you disagree with this, you're wrong and stupid and probably a NEET.
Pretty soon, you're going to be able to still digital games. While it may seem like a consumer win on the surface, if you're not completely fucking retarded and think about it for 10 seconds you'll realize how bad things will get. Digital "used" is not the same as physical used. There is literally no reason not to buy digital used for cheaper. That's not the real issue, though. What's going to destroy game sales is the ability to set your own price. Imagine a game swap thread on Yea Forums: you bought Sekiro and beat it, and now you want to play DMC5. Someone in the thread (there will always be someone) has DMC5 and wants to play Sekiro. You each sell the game to the other for $0.01. This goes on and on to the point that no one is really buying new games anymore. Sales will go from hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands, and you'll see devs try to make their money back by making more online games that require a copy to play with friends, or microtransactions, or preorder DLC tied to your account. Indie games will just die. Who's going to buy Baba is You at full price when you can pick it up when you have some free time for dirt cheap, or just trade it for another indie game you bought? If you have friends and family with steam, you all just trade games between your group for a penny every time. It will reek havock on the market.
I know that retards want to pretend all devs are greedy and evil (plenty are) and that they should be making games out of pure passion with no monetary incentive, but the reality is that things just don't work that way. Anyone crying about corporate bootlickers and consumer rights who's pretending this is unequivocally a win for us is a complete fucking retard without a modicum of foresight.
Remember, if someone can't actually form a coherent thought and just yells about corporate cocksuckers and doomers, they're a retard incapable of forethought.
/egsg/ - Epic Games Store General #2
Previous Thread:
Then watch people who delete and reinstall games on the reg kick up a storm
>you're going to be able to still digital games
>still
>Steam must offer resale function
>Steam puts on heavy duties for reselling
>Other platform pops-up without cap
>Devs rage and stick only with Steam and other cap-like platforms
>Literal cartel formation
>Regulators ruin the cartel
>Videogame market prices implode as software products are held to the same standards as physical products while having no depreciation and mostly only protect by copyright
>Gaming as a service becomes the main focus fucking over indie devs unless they follow (innovative) freemium business models.
kek
When did I know Yea Forums's cock lust for the Steam empire was in full swing? When Yea Forums unironically hated Australia for getting them refunds, for, and get this: "Getting rid of flash sales"
Anyone that tries to gaslight you about Steam shills and that they don't exist is a lying piece of shit and trying to cover for the fact that they themselves are a Steam shill.
AAAAAAAAAA VIDEOGAMES ARE DEAD IF YOU DON'T GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS!
The family part doesn't work as family exists
the rest is fine
Thread theme: youtube.com
G2A are the ones that should be worried.
Also, can't valve just say G2A exists and the issue is done with?
It's interesting. Keen to see how Valve handles it.
>Steam is biggest one
Yes Steam is the "biggest" one but Valve as a corporation is also the easiest target.
Do you genuinely think they won't have their hands tied if they brought this shit to Apple or Sony or Microsoft or fucking Google first?
This literally has nothing to do with Steam.
>download limit per purchase is what I meant.
People will just buy it from a platform that doesn't put a redownload limit on their purchase. It's just a bad service to put a download limit.
The ultimate plan to finally destroy the indie scene and all the scum and villainy it has produced
>this is the future you wanted
Digital games have no "used" market. You're not even selling your copy of the game, you're selling your access to valve's pristine copy. It's like reselling your car except you get to keep your car minus one essential working part (which piracy can solve) and the manufacturer has to make a new one for the other guy. It doesn't conform to classical model and there's no argument for it except on a technicality.
It's crazy but I don't care about it. All I want is Bannerlord and it's too late to change that shit to game-as-a-service. I'm glad this industry is going to crash and burn. It's about time.
>Have offers, deals, extra content, etc that is given away when bought new that can't translate to be resold along with the license key
That would be illegal according to the French law. You bought the key that came with the extra shit and you should be able to sell that extra shit as well.
>want to buy game
>game is 9.99
>go to market place to buy a “used” version of the game
>game is 7.99
Valve always takes a portion of the sales of an item sold on the market place. And nobody would buy a game if it’s more than it is on the steam so the game would most likely be cheaper.
Although as a consumer it looks good, but I can see this fucking over devs.
It’s basically like G2A to some degree
And all of a sudden Stadia value skyrockets.
just stop selling games in france lmao
>What's going to destroy game sales is the ability to set your own price. Imagine a game swap thread on Yea Forums: you bought Sekiro and beat it, and now you want to play DMC5. Someone in the thread (there will always be someone) has DMC5 and wants to play Sekiro. You each sell the game to the other for $0.01. This goes on and on to the point that no one is really buying new games anymore
Imagine being such a corporate bootlicker zoomer the mere notion of trading a game for another with a friend is "scary".
Tell me zoomer, why didn't the videogame world die when we were kids and we constantly traded games with one another.
>You see user, when the demand increases almost infinitely when replication costs are zero, prices will approach zero.
fucking hell economics 101
>But muh dev sticking only with platforms offering a mark-up on resale
That is cartel formation dipshit and that is illegal
Google, Apple, Sony and Microsoft don't have any better lawyer team than Valve. In this case it's clear that high court of France would have sided with consumer group regardless of who was defendant.
as a consumer, we're not supposed to give a single fuck about dev woes
It's weird to me. You can't sell second hand digital movie or books so i don't why UFC decided to attack Steam.
But why not, if i can resell used game keys, it's win-win to me. I often refund on steam, now i could refunds even the game i cleared.
Which is stupid becasue they should then be enforcing a similar ruling to physical re sales which they do not
You buy new you get the perks
you buy used you don't or you have the option to buy a cheaper part of it if you wanted the extras
Fucking this.
Most of American businesses are in a cartel.
I wonder how Americans can keep up with this.
The only truth here.
Enjoy stream-only games future.
>Tell me zoomer, why didn't the videogame world die when we were kids and we constantly traded games with one another.
Because you're not actually old enough to remember how any of that went, and are too stupid to understand the difference between trading physical games and digital ones. They are not the same, no matter how hard you pretend they are.
Can't since France is part of the European Economic Zone, which means if they ban it in France they have to ban it in the entire EEZ (mind you, this zone is larger than just the EU zone). That is like losing half of the first world as a market
I don't get it why are there anons mocking steam users when it applies to all the digital stores?
this, game develpoment isn't a freaking charity.
How long will it take for the appeal decision to come through? If they lose, would it only be a matter of time before the entire EU to enforces the decision?
>consumers rights
It's distributions. Resale should be the burden of the source code developer. Since essentially digital platforms only sell copies, but are not obligated to provide a platform for resale.
Devs need to offer more for a new copy then
but france needs to re evaulte that stance
It should be, ability to sell the base game and nothing else alongside it
At least that way DLC is still bought, and extras like a soundtrack, wallpapers, cgs, etc are kept by that person so when they buy the game again they have it all still
If you want the bonuses by new or buy the DLC
valve has the money they can just collapse the european union
>That is cartel formation dipshit and that is illegal
What kind of smoothbrain logic is this?
You selling a game digitally is no different than the developers/publishers selling it digitally.
There's always going to be a platform-specific charge placed on the transaction.
You're a fuckin dunce.
>I have no idea how euro market works, please listen to me
Because some US sectors, especially aviation and the tech industry, are subsidized and protected by the US government (against their own regulations). Hence large fines for Boeing, Google and Facebook by the EU (and now this Steam decision).
America only likes the free market when it works for them.
>b-but this fuck over indies
Good. Shit like Undertale can be avoided in the future.
that's retarded. DLC is still my property and I should be able to resell it
t. AAA cocksucker
>valve has the money they can just collapse the european union
>Collapsing the largest economy on the planet
Alright mate
No game store sells copies, this is false. They allow you to download copy with your purchase of a license. This whole ruling was that licenses are transferable and store should be accommodating their patrons in this..
Right.....but back in the real world Valve has an actual big problem here.
Retarded fucking zoomer nigger it was extremely common to swap even full consoles for a time.
I wonder why me trading my psx for my friends n64 for 3 months didn't kill Nintendo and Sony both.
You're just mentally retarded.
>buy a theme park ticket
>Enjoy all the rides I want
>Sell my ticket to some other guy
>He sales it to someone else
>This turns into a pattern
>......
>"Lol, this won't affect a thing"
Shills begone
>Devs need to offer more for a new copy then
It doesn't matter how much they offer. Once you buy it, you own it. People should be able to resell what they own, including all the free dlc that came with the new copy.
They can't enforce it. Valve is in America. All they can do is sit there like cucks.
it doesn't even though. People have to buy a game before they resell it, the impact is going to be directly proportional to the number of copies sold.
This the dumbest shit ever.
When you buy software, you don't own the software. You own the licence to play the game.
This has ALWAYS been the case, physical, digital or otherwise.
Pretty much all software licences have a limited user agreement. Paying for 1 person to use a software should be cheaper than paying for a whole company. Physical games have always had a resell value because it was basically impossible to enforce a license agreement with early cartridge based games, so they just didn't bother. Even around this time, large company's had a licence to use certain software. Steam very much clearly states in their terms and services, as well as most games "YOU DO NOT OWN THESE GAMES, YOU OWN THE RIGHTS TO PLAY THEM".
France is fucking stupid.
Stop pretending you're old enough to have ever done that. You're not fooling anyone.
Yes they can you stupid fuck, why you talk about shit you don't know about fucking nigger
It's not that big.
It's the same problem they face with G2A, except now they'll be clipping the ticket.
Japan will literally stop releasing games on PC. This will lead to a console renaissance.
>There's always going to be a platform-specific charge placed on the transaction.
Yes and that is not illegal since it is payment for the platform service.
What is illegal, however, is talking to devs about what premium (implicitly and explicitly) has to be charged for resale and devs only sticking to that platform.
Then the EU will just force devs to publish on all platforms.
Valve is selling in France, this means Valve is beholden to laws of the land.
>It's like reselling your car except you get to keep your car minus one essential working part (which piracy can solve) and the manufacturer has to make a new one for the other guy.
Games aren't theme park tickets you tard
Damn user, already out of arguments? How does it feel to be wrong all the time?
Laws they can't enforce. They can't send the European police to America, that's international conflict.
Dude, I can already pirate games with impunity, why would I need some frogs to defend my consumer rights? It's also fairly easy to get mods from the steam workshop fairly easily. I think it would be great for a month, but the way devs would get around this would be way worse than the original setting. Multiplayer games would make dlc that would prevent people of different tiers playing with eachother. Single player games would create a new type of DRM which makes the game unplayable if it's traded a couple of times. Devs would have an incentive to create artificial deterioration in games. That is not a good idea.
So does this mean I should be able to sell the MS Word installed on my old laptop?
Didn't read, faggot.
I could tell from the length you're a corporate bootlicker.
But cant devs make these resellable games useless by issuing the good old CD Key?
you may be right but at the same time, if the land isn't profitable, they can pull out of France forever. Pretty much the only things left in France will be F2P and gacha shit since no other games will be profitable there.
Is that your best argument after being btfo? It's always baffling to watch how zoomer minds have been shaped by corporations and media outlets for instinctively protect business even when unnecessary. You just realized how dumb what you were saying actually is and now you're trying to damage control.
Kys nigger faggot
It's a pristine copy of the original, user.
Nice, so I can sell all my digital console games I bought on the Playstation store.
They don't have to, Interpol exists for a reason. You know how Huaweis CEOs daughter was held in Canadian airport by Interpol to send he to Americas?
But they are copies.
When you walk into a game store and buy a game you are not buying the source code.
Actually you fucking fool all your points are good for the costumer. This will drive shitty companies to finally make fucking real games and take agendas out of the market because people will stop trading shitty games.
They would have to stop selling in France which means they could not sell in any EU country. Which would very, very bad for their bottom line.
>after being btfo
>kys
You're very clearly underage.
>You could trade and re-sell physical games just fine and gaming survived
>Pre-order bonuses and DLCs are also just licenses and must be transferable
>Online gaming is cool
>Most (good) indie games already have literally no DRM whatsoever and can be copied at will. Trading them is pointless.
>Who's going to buy Baba is You at full price when you can pick it up when you have some free time for dirt cheap, or just trade it for another indie game you bought?
Well, gonna have to make a game good enough to make people want to support you.
France is part of EEA, pulling out of France is same as pulling out of whole of EU and then some.
>Then the EU will just force devs to publish on all platforms.
Fucking lol.
Good luck enforcing this.
They don't have to. The law can't be enforced, Valve isn't in france.
Are games a good or a service?
I'm still right faggot.
>This will drive shitty companies to finally make fucking real games
How fucking stupid do you need to be to think this? How could this possibly lead to that at all? Do you think suddenly all monetary incentive will vanish and only giant passion projects will be left?
>You could trade and re-sell physical games just fine and gaming survived
As soon as you try to compare physical resales and trades to digital, you out yourself as an idiot with no points.
You are buying license for software. Software is usually included into the package but it doesn't have to.
It’s not just indie devs I can see this fucking over. I can see this fucking over AAA companies too.
>someone buys new game at $60
>few days later they beat or hated the game so sell it on market place
>game is 40 bucks on market
This will cause a huge loss of profits. And a bunch of publishers will leave steam.
Thats the key question
>EU locks down servers
>If not heavy fines for hosting country
>Ban enforced
>Devs lose massive first world marketshare
>Dev goes bankrupt.
user, if you're not making money from stupid rulings... might as well pull out altogether. fuck the EU. Enjoy your f2p and gachashit.
lmao how could you not want this? Literally every indieshitter is going to get utterly fucked.
the court ruling is based on the fact that you own the games indefinitely on steam.
all valve has to do is start charge a subscription fee to use steam or start calling their games rentals and they get around it.
no you're not.
>What is illegal, however, is talking to devs about what premium (implicitly and explicitly) has to be charged for resale and devs only sticking to that platform.
This isn't illegal.
I guess you've forgotten about the argument at hand and now you're gonna focus on not believing I'm older so you don't have to face the truth?
I'm 28 if you're curious, but if you wanna check for yourself, go ahead and ask anybody my age if what I said is true.
Stupid fucking retarded nigger zoomer slice your wrists before posting such dumb opinions here.
>consumer rights
these don't exist.
the only rights you have are human rights, and none of those are violated when you voluntarily buy a product, retard.
I'm worried that if this gets wide adoption then offering a game for outright purchase will become unsustainable and every game will become a "live service" funded by subscriptions and/or mocrotransactions
They are a service. Just like music.
>all valve has to do is start charge a subscription fee to use steam or start calling their games rentals
That's exactly what Stadia does. And no real gamer wants that shit.
>When you buy software, you don't own the software. You own the licence to play the game.
>YOU DO NOT OWN THESE GAMES, YOU OWN THE RIGHTS TO PLAY THEM".
Which is not the case within the EU as that would be illegal. You do own the game whether it digital or physical due to EU law protecting consumers. This French ruling is way overdue as consumers should have been able to resell game they own since mant years back.
>As soon as you try to compare physical resales and trades to digital, you out yourself as an idiot with no points.
Explain how the video game on the CD / Floppy deteriorated or depreciated with use.
Exactly you can't resell a license. But you can resell source code.
European law, not French law.
It's just that a French "Consumer Rights group" decided to go to court. But they definitely used European laws.
Nothing you just stated is the responsibility of the developers.
If some literal who publishes a game on Steam but not Epic, there's not a single fucking thing EU can do to force that developer to make a Epic-compatible version.
Nothing is going to change, you idiots.
At most, what's going to happen is that Valve will alter their TOS, and French users will be able to sell their Steam accounts (not individual games) to other French users.
It is in the EU since those are (implicit) price agreements
>unironically using gamer
Bigger cringe than the tim fanboys here.
Problem is that EU is bigger market than USA, this ruling isn't final yet as Valve as time to appeal it.
You thought games as a service was bad before? Wait till this is ratified.
>Exactly you can't resell a license
You can, that's the point
They fucked over SAP with this a few years back
You know, that company that is almost as big as microsoft.
>What is illegal, however, is talking to devs about what premium (implicitly and explicitly) has to be charged for resale and devs only sticking to that platform.
lol, tell that to Epic. They'll laugh at you.
Thanks, leftoids!
I wonder what it will take for the yuroshits to finally wake the fuck up and realize govt is not there for their protection. How far to shit does literally everything they touch have to go before they stop acting like worker ants?
actually PSN is massive in France, FIFA is the top selling digital game in the country and its all on the PS4. Everyone has a vested interest in this not coming to fruition, reselling digital media is a retarded concept
I'm grateful to the frog-eaters for this. I have my games split between 3 accounts and there's no way to move them all to my main one.
>But you can resell source code.
No you can't.
That's exactly what copyright law is for.
You might the dumbest person I've seen post in the years here. If European rulings against American companies don't matter, why are companies like Google and Boeing paying out their respective asses in fines due recent European court cases? It's because they wouldn't be able to do business there if they didn't, retard.
how the fuck can you "resell" a digital file
how the fuck can a digital file be "used"
it's not about what you want, it's about money.
if they start charging a monthly access fee (even like 5 cents) then it suddenly becomes a subscription service not bound by the same ruling.
> can't resell digital music, movies, ebooks according to the law
> same laws doesn't apply to video games
lol, western problems
>I guess you've forgotten about the argument at hand
Trading physical games is not comparable to trading digital games. You're have to be a literal drooling retard to think it is.
>I'm 28 if you're curious
Even if that were true, you'd still be younger than I am, you fucking idiot.
>before posting such dumb opinions here.
Explain to me exactly how you think trading gameboy games for the weekend on the schoolbus is comparable to being able to trade any brand new game for another brand new game in perfect condition instantly from your own house?
>Explain how the video game on the CD / Floppy deteriorated or depreciated with use.
Damage to the cart, disc, box or manual. You know, those criteria people use when setting the price of physical game resales. Don't be that retard that pretends that the data of the game is all that matters and the actual medium isn't factored into physical resales. That's a really stupid guy to be.
Then why is Steam currently operating in the EU, since they already do this?
Read about this ruling, it literally says you can resell license.
Not outside the EEZ no. Inside yes.
Just ban France from buying Steam Games. France has always been Europes version of California. You're better off without it.
And you still won't be able to.
Then why doesn't Epic let people resell games, they just shove freeware games because they know they have nothing else going for them other than paying off jews
And watch everyone except the AAA normies drop steam like a hot potato because nobody pays 10 bucks a month to play some 4 hour long Indieshit.
Maybe it will convince them to tie video games sales to a physical object again. They wanted the advantages of a model with no artificial scarcity and at the same time they wanted to avoid the downside of the product being infinitely copy able and therefore having zero worth.
Valve created this mess, they can fix it.
>if they start charging a monthly access fee (even like 5 cents) then it suddenly becomes a subscription service not bound by the same ruling.
if they start charging a subscription fee, people will move to Epic or GOG. It's retarded to charge for using a fucking store.
No, there literally isn't.
You are essentially reselling the keys, not the files.
implying Epic allows you to resell digital games
implying any digital distributor allows you to resell digital games
Based as fuck.
Faggot.
>When you buy a car, you don't own the car. You own the license to drive it around.
>Oh, seems you called someone on asshole as you drove by 3 years ago. Bye bye car.
Sarcasm aside of course you don't own the intellectual property, but you definitely do own that copy.
>human rights
Those don't exist either.
Not how that works, EEA has rules and one of them is, you can't arbitrary ban one of it's member s while selling to others.
>it's not about what you want, it's about money.
It IS in fact about what I want. Why should I use your platform when you charge money to use it while many other similar platforms don't.
You think Epic or GOG wouldn't do the same thing?
This ruling is far reaching and the final solution will be similar across the board.
1. Because, in relation to this ruling, the legislation is slow
2. The price agreements have to be proven (innocent until proven) and that takes a while.
The investigation into Google and Facebook alone took years and only recently resulted in fines and legislation.
Undertale is available first on his website and the sequel was free, what are you talking about
This is just what the industry needs right now. All the hacks and shitty devs will be weeded out because their tripe won't be viable on the market. Owning all your games is just the cherry on top.
A new golden age of vidya is upon us.
You don't understand. Google and Boeing can be kicked out of the EU. You can't kick Valve out, since they aren't located in the EU. It's as simple as that.
There's literally nothing they can do to stop Valve, even if the laws obligate them to.
>Damage to the cart, disc, box or manual
Which is completely irrelevant for anyone but a collector, and also generally unlikely
>Don't be that retard that pretends that the data of the game is all that matters and the actual medium isn't factored into physical resales
Disk trading was pretty avid at the Tech Cons and Meetups I was at in the 90s, not that you sad little shill would have been there.
Steam is bad, Epic is worse, and Epic will make steam worse.
It's not a "hey, i will defeat you by being more friendly", its a "hey! you can shoot people instead of just pointing the gun at them, this way you can steal even more shit!"
pff, who cares then. im not selling my steam games, i own them for a reason. now the EGS games, those I need to get rid of. would love to make my money back on that bullshit. come back to let us know when we can sell our games.
Digital games can only "degrade" if the developer puts out a new update/patch that fucks with the game in some way.
Why in the FUCK would anyone buy a "new" fully priced game when a "used" game is literally the same? What in the actual fuck are these frogs thinking? Yes a better semblance of digital ownership is great but the utter clusterfuck this ruling produces is actually unprecedented.
i don't see why any of the stores would object to charging people more in order to comply with frenchie law
Okay user whatever you say
g2a are unredeemed keys though. Big difference
Video games are to the 2010's what comic books were to the 1940's.
>116 posts in
>Nobody bothered to check the source or ANY article on the matter
The only thing this law is pushing for is for Valve to be unable to ban your ACCOUNT in case you sell it; this has nothing to do with selling used games from your library. You will not be able to sell unique games from your library like you can do with cards and cosmetics on the Steam market.
This law just prevents digital storefronts to ban your account in case you sell it. Please inform yourself before gobbling whatever artificial shitpost a sourceless OP creates.
>Then why doesn't Epic let people resell games
because the court hasn't force them to yet. If Steam loses on their appeal, every fucking online game store will have to allow reselling games. Not just Steam. Epic, GoG and whatever else that exists.
If you paid full retail price for it, YES.
>Which is not the case within the EU as that would be illegal.
Well that's EU having an backwards law that completely fucks over software developers. This is probably why companies like Adobe require you to have on-going, short term licences/subscription as opposed to a single software package deal.
GOG doesn't even have DRM on most of their games, why bother with re-selling when you can literally send over the installer?
You can ban server access to the EU dipshit and also oblige companies to ban European IPs (such as with the GDPR).
>Which is completely irrelevant for anyone but a collector
Wrong.
>and also generally unlikely
Oh, I get it now. You've never purchased a new game in your life.
>Disk trading was pretty avid at the Tech Cons and Meetups I was at in the 90s
>trying to compare small enthusiast events to the larger secondhand market
Oh, you poor little idiot. And yes, I was around for all of the 90s.
This is how I use torrents. I own 3 copies of diabloII, but the cd keys from the manufacturer don't work and neither does the old installer on the cd. so i use a pirated copy instead. nobody pays for things, and the ones that do will not pay more than once. Diablo2 was a special case for me.
>Valve created this mess
are you retarded?
They can hire other servers.
They. Would. Not. Be. Able. To. Conduct. Business. Within. The. European. Union.
>Why in the FUCK would anyone buy a "new" fully priced game when a "used" game is literally the same?
Because they want to support the Dev.
>This law just prevents digital storefronts to ban your account in case you sell it.
Fucking based. Fuck doomposters.
On the other hand... what's your source?
Are you sure? Because nearly everybody outside and inside of Yea Forums says that Steam needs to allow you to resell games.
Or are you saying this can be fixed by Valve by just letting their users be allowed to sell their accounts?
>backwards law
>protects the customer
Kek, american cocksuckers
They can stop them from selling shit in EEA and they can fine them, they can seize all of their property in EU, with is fucking massive and they can use thier court system to jail CEO and if he ever leaves country that provides him protection he will be jailed.
Because most people don't go looking for this shit?
If it's an option front and center, people will use it.
Your argument essentially boils down to "why wouldn't people just pirate?"
Because they want people to actually use their shit instead of their competitors. If you are the only asshat charging to use your platform, you will look like a greedy fool and everyone will move onto another platform.
Just because you do something doesn't mean everyone else will follow you.
I think he refers to the fact that Valve was the first company in using account-based DRM.
so many poor niggers thinking about muh 3 cent profits over the longterm
enjoy your mandatory DRM future and subscription based games-as-a-service
>They can hire other servers.
That can't be accessed by EU IPs.
Christ user
Oh fuck off, you pathetic valve shill.
80% of used games you can buy are in practically decent condition.
>And yes, I was around for all of the 90s.
Stop lying
Yes. Legally.
But how can they stop Valve? Send police to America? That causes international conflict. Valve is home free.
Protects the customer from what?
Neck yourself, killjoy
Come up with a counter argument or leave the thread. This is your only warning.
>enjoy your mandatory DRM future and subscription based games-as-a-service
I'm not going to use those. I'm not a corporate whore who gives money for that shit.
>law gets extended to all those things
>vidya saves the day
its illegal under US law as well, because Fraud is always a felony. Did you pay for something? Have you been defrauded out of the use of what you paid for? Then a felony has been committed.
In the US, federal law demands that all free citizens prosecute felony arrests by any means necessary when they witness a felony. If you order a large fry and get a small, and they won't help you, you are obligated to arrest them because fraud is a felony. Steam executives are retarded, their headquarters is on US soil. Fraud is always a felony, for example when they ban cheaters, it's permanent and the appeals process is illusory.
Someone is going to put their hands on Gabe and bring him to a FEMA camp.
You know that Valve has office in Luxembourg, right?
>S-Shill!
Not even pretending not to be a fucking retard anymore?
>80% of used games you can buy are in practically decent condition.
Stop pulling numbers out of your ass. It's already clear you have literally no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
>Stop lying
I'm not, and I'm not the idiot who's never actually gone to a retail store and purchased used games before.
People could re-sell their stuff since the beginning of time.
>When did you realise Tim was the hero and Gaben was the villain?
How is Epic involved with this ruling in any way aside from the fact that they will get fucked by it as well after Steam?
Do you really think that is going to last? If we look at the current EU track record with regards to anti cartel operations they are in for a rude awakening
>They can stop them from selling shit in EEA and they can fine them
Valve has no reason to agree to this. They can just keep selling. As I've been repeating, you can't stop them from selling since it's not happening physically. They can just not pay the fines.
There's no reason to ever leave America for a Euro-pee-n shithole.
Every game on GOG has a big "Download this DRM free installer" button on its page, buddy
>Your argument essentially boils down to "why wouldn't people just pirate?"
wrong
my argument boils down to
"even when giving ridiculously easy access to piracy, people still buy games they want to support"
Not a hard concept to grasp, buddy, try thinking it over a bit.
Steam about to get SLAPPED by the based EU
Consumer rights > corporations
>Tell me zoomer, why didn't the videogame world die when we were kids and we constantly traded games with one another.
because we have to buy them in the first place in order to have it for trading later on. the first sale was always captured by the market, it had to be, by technicality and by category.
>what is family sharing
Developer here, fuck Steam and fuck their community of frothing shitfucks who's combined jew-toxicity is going to make every digitally distributed creative industry impossible to monetize as a creator.
Tell that to Facebook, Google and Boeing kek
>tfw im gonna sell all those free games i got from them.
Recall everyone back to America.
They can't keep selling as all of their bank accounts in EU will be frozen, Visa, Mastercard and Paypal will blacklist their accounts from EU. It's easier to stop corporation to sell in EU than what you might imagine.
Protects the customer from what?
I honestly think this ruling is incorrect. Digital games need to reworks when it comes to consumer rights, but how in the fresh fuck are you supposed to resell them? It'd be better if they just forced valve to restore the whole "games bought as gifts are tradeable" thing.
>>Oh, seems you called someone on asshole as you drove by 3 years ago. Bye bye car.
Guess what, certain car designers actually require you to sign a contract to purchase their cars that says you won't cause a bad image for their brand. If you buy a Porche and then go around calling people assholes to a point where you become known as the guy who goes around calling people asshole from his Porche, Porche can straight up revoke your car and force a refund.
Don't believe? Look up the case of Deadmou5's Nyan cat Ferrari.
Valve is in AMERICA. They have AMERICAN bank accounts.
>When you start your independent nation to get away from the Old World, but then said Old World becomes the largest economy in the world and get indirectly impacted by them on a legislative level.
Kek, first the GDPR, then article 13 and now this.
>because we have to buy them in the first place in order to have it for trading later on.
So, the same with digital?
What?
The EU has more than enough clout with the American government that if a company like Valve started conducting business illegally within their borders, the American government would crush them themselves. Valve isn't even subsidized like Boeing or Google.
>When did you realise Tim was the hero and Gaben was the villain?
From the very start, Valve was always the Villain. They singlehandedly killed the physical PC market. What I want to know is where all this bleeding heart bullshit about "used games killing developers" came from. It's just zoomers right?
i hope you dumb niggers love your netflix version of video games
Post your game if it's so good.
>get game for free on Epic
>sell them next week
From draconian licenses that hinder humans to sell their goods. This isn't india and pepsi we are talking about
No shit. I bought skyrim in 2011, I also bought the legendary edition with the art and shit. I bought each expansion, I bought the special edition, and I bought the VR version for steam.
the fact that the only installation that runs right is pirated is neither here nor there, I own 4 copies of it because I like it. I pay for racing games too. cowahpoopy not so much, I have real guns for that hobby, not paying for shooter simulations when I can go to the range. im not supporting that shit.
> I'm not the idiot who's never actually gone to a retail store and purchased used games before.
Then why do you think all games are completely busted?
Because you're straight up making shit up right now.
Hell, you can jump on ebay right now and see that you're spouting bullshit.
Basically nobody sells busted games, and those few with fucked up packaging still have working game, which is the point anyway.
Not true. Nobody in America gives a shit about Europe.
Source: I am American.
No dumb motherfucker, it is not about valve, but the fact that EU based consumers can buy anything on Valve's platform. Jesus
And not a single dime is going to valve.
Yay, PC gaming death!
> If we look at the current EU track record with regards to anti cartel operations
When I look at the EU, I see retarded bullshit like the current france bullshit, I see retards saying gambling gacha shit in a fucking basketball game isn't gambling and more retarded crap.
That is the track record I am seeing. It is not a good track record from where I'm standing.
Yfw Steam cucks are unironically getting mad about this.
The fact that you're comparing the proposed ease of buying a "used" digital game to the "ease" of piracy for normies shows just how disingenuous you're being.
Also, there won't be a stigma/threat attached to buying resold games.
If you think this won't be more prevalent than piracy, you're a special kind of retarded.
Valve is MULTINATIONAL CORPORATION! They have bankaccount in every major part of the world including China, Japan, EU and America.
is EGS based in the US? we could prosecute felony arrests against them as well.
Can't wait for a revival in piracy to teach these cucks who's boss
> is EGS based in the US?
Epic Game Store is a chink company in china.
Wrong. They're based in America.
>Then why do you think all games are completely busted?
Just stop. It's clear that you've never been to gamestop and looked at used games.
>and those few with fucked up packaging still have working game
Which is objectively in worse condition than a digital game that's indistinguishable from a new one. You saying "it's basically the same, just deal with it" won't change that.
What you are is either a dumbass or a troll (or both).
Dilate with other failed indie devs.
You don't own every copy of your shitty game.
Those copies belong to the consumer.
Fuck off epic shill
yes but the white employees are on US soil, where fraud is a felony and federal law demands that we all prosecute felony arrests when we witness felonies. There is no wiggle room if you gamers want to talk about the law.
Where is their headquarters?
EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS THREAD IS FUCKING RETARDED.
THIS LAW DOES NOT MEAN STEAM OR ANYONE HAS TO HELP US SELL DIGITAL ASSETS. IT JUST MEANS IT CAN'T BE AGAINST THE RULES.
THEREFORE THE ONLY THING THAT WILL CHANGE IS THAT SELLING YOUR STEAM/PSN/ECT ACCOUNT WONT RESULT IN A BAN.
THAT IS LITERALLY IT.
NOW STFU ABOUT USED GAMES.
Yes, you paid for them, but would you pay what the developers are asking or a "used" version for a fraction of the price?
There's no loyalty to developers these days (most of the time it's not warranted anyway given the garbage games they're making), and it'll become apparent as soon as thre's a "buy used" button right beside the "buy now" button.
>sandyhook.swf
Kek.
Source?
>we could prosecute felony arrests against them as well.
no you can't because all their "exclusives" are skipping around the law by being "TIMED EXCLUSIVE". Mainly one year exclusive to Epic.
>Boeing fines
>Google fines and anti-monopolistic
>Facebook fines
>Microsoft fines and anti-monopolistic legislation
>Supra-Sovereign, Sovereign, and Agency (SSA) Bonds and US banks
Etc, etc
How is that relevant? EU fined Google, EU made every US based corporation to use their laws not long ago, remember?
You can't just directly apply logic on physical goods to digital goods 1:1. There are god knows how many things you need to consider before just telling someone to fix something.
What all these dumbfuck governments need to do is to build a new fresh foundation of policies that take the digital landscape into perspective. This goes beyond videogames and reselling shit and consumer rights too. This also involves the regulation of platforms like Twitter or Reddit or Google or Facebook that literally have too much influence over the public zeitgeist.
Once again, humanity is feeling the full brunt of the wild growing pains of the digital era.
>i never really was on your side
based france does it again
>THEREFORE THE ONLY THING THAT WILL CHANGE IS THAT SELLING YOUR STEAM/PSN/ECT ACCOUNT WONT RESULT IN A BAN.
actually it specifically is not about account selling.
the law applies to individual products.
There will be a clause that individual games will need to be resellable.
You have no argument.
>to the "ease" of piracy for normies
Stop being a disingenuous retard
Hitting up a buddy to send you the gog installer is as fucking easy as it gets
Gaben has spent billions to free PC gaming from the tyranny of being controlled by a console company by making GNU/Linux the PC Gaming OS of the future.
Tencent wants to lock us back in because Gaben's future makes it harder for China to control its people without Windows 10.
SHILLS SEETHING
VALVE IN TROUBLE
FELONY ARRESTS EVERYWHERE
FRAUD JUST FLEW OVER MY HOUSE
This ruling wouldnt have been enforced to begin with because of the implications it has on pretty much any customer bound lifetime licence for anything.
based retards
If Valve were to pull out of France/EU they would need to refund everything or get sued again.
>gamestop
oh jesus, who the fuck buys at gamestop
so you genuinely are that stupid.
yes, gamestop games are fucked, and that's the worst possible store to prove your point, ameriturd
>Which is objectively in worse condition than a digital game that's indistinguishable from a new one
not the game itself
>What all these dumbfuck governments need to do is to build a new fresh foundation of policies that take the digital landscape into perspective
basado
someone gets it, stop putting bandaids on everything
Epic doesn't even have as robust of a refund system. No big company wants consumers to have rights. Shilling either company is stupid.
>Where? Give examples.
Hmm. I researched this a bit and it seems that there is a complication I wasn't aware of. You do.not "own" a digital game, you have purchased a physical copy or a license to use the code etc. But in the case of Steam it's different because what you buy here is the actual game in digital form (or so I understand it)..
Well, be that as it may, we can still use the analogy of selling physical copies to try and guess how many people are going to sell their games via steam. I don't buy the argument that there is such a huge difference between selling physical and digital copies. Yes, selling digitally is way more convenient. No that doesn't mean that people will suddenly start selling all their games. Most people simply don't care, it's not that they are bored to walk to the store.
0.75%
Then we're not talking about the same thing, since I'm referring to torrents and you're talking about grabbing a USB stick off your friend.
You can't compare someone making their DRM free GOG game available to an unlimited number of people to download, to you putting the game on a USB drive for a single person.
They just aren't the same thing.
>Do you genuinely think they won't have their hands tied if they brought this shit to Apple or Sony or Microsoft or fucking Google first?
Yes, because unlike the US, France isn't a de facto Oligarchy ruled by the biggest companies.
netflix is a tranny site, so you can dilate instead
>oh jesus, who the fuck buys at gamestop
Most people, you fucking idiot. How do you not understand that's the point? This is about the majority of the market, you stupid autistic piece of shit.
I think it was just bait.
It's about your right to re-sell a license you own, though, since person-bound licensing contracts are not a thing.
>"hurr durra digital apple is the same as a real apple"
Are people really this fucking stupid?
Sorry it's french, because I'm a frog and can't find decent results due to my language settings. Just use google translate or something.
dexerto.fr
There is no difference in the eyes of the law.
>Reddit spacing
Easy faggot, you don't want digital reselling? Make physical copies.
>Then we're not talking about the same thing, since I'm referring to torrents and you're talking about grabbing a USB stick off your friend.
Seems to me like you're an illiterate chromosome clown, since that was literally the first sentence in the other post you replied to. Maybe learn to read before trying to argue economics and law
>Source?
My ass
Making account selling illegal directly conflicts with the selling of individual digital goods. In a system like steam where you own licenses to play games, your account is the good.
>There will be..
Oh shit I didn't know law makers from France frequented here. Bro only I can pull shit out of my ass, get the fuck out.
Also a law like that is too powerful. They should make it illegal to stop the reselling of digital goods but they can't make business specifically support it.
This
If this passes for games it can apply for music, movie, books, hell, even software.
Frenchies are crashing the entire digital industry with no survivors
That has to be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read. Period.
>He doesn't run Deepin so that he gets to shaft Microshaft while still keeping China happy
...
>Frenchies are crashing the entire digital industry with no survivors
Awesome. Digital was a shitty mistake. Fuck zoomers, fuck Gabe Newell and fuck Tim Sweeney.
So by this logic should f2p games like say Fortnite and League have in-game markets for their cosmetics as well where players can resell skins?
yes
Yes.
Yes
>In a system like steam where you own licenses to play games, your account is the good.
Wrong, each game you buy is a separate license agreement.
Therefore, valve needs to implement a way to transfer these between accounts, since license agreements must be resellable.
The rabbit hole is very deep yes, and France doesnt know the legal hellhole its unleashing
your account is NOT a product that was sold to you so they have no duty to allow you to resell it. there is no argument to be made that a ToS cannot ban the practice of account selling and enforce it and this case was not about account selling at all.
>and France doesnt know the legal hellhole its unleashing
If they kill digital and DRM, I'm all for it.
They can but how would they.
The law doesn't state epic must create a skin selling store.
It just means it can't be illegal to sell skins.
NOTHING WILL CHANGE
This might go as far to force them a way to implement a method to transfer them, as having a purely ingame market place might be an act of cartelisation.
Where were you when the BASED frogs opened the Pandora's Box of the digital era?
I was busy jerking off to cunny honestly.
They can make it entertainment products only
Except we were literally talking about the difference of ease/perception between pirating and buying 'used' digital games. The key difference between our talking points here (and why you're a fuckin dunce) is the method of piracy. You're downplaying it, implying the only way people EVER pirate is on a single user-to-user basis.
You're being disingenuous and trying to cover up your retardation with hackneyed phrases.
You're so fuckin dumb it hurts.
>Literally the same fucking process happened with SAP in 08
Christ, you valve cumguzzlers are uneducated.
It means epic must implement a way to transfer said license agreements.
Very naive
>Hey epic I want to sell my skins
>You cant
>WHY NOT? ITS NOT ILLEGAL, ARE YOU PROHIBITING ME FROM MY RIGHTS?
>Court ensues
>Therefore, valve needs to implement a way to transfer these between accounts, since license agreements must be resellable.
The law states they can't deny your right to sell said licenses but not that they have to create a marketplace for it. The reason I said account selling is all that would change is because that's the only existing way to trade games and it's currently against the rules. I believe they will change that and thus be in accordance with the law.
And how far does the "entertainment product" definition go?
Because that encapsulates A LOT of digital products.
>Cunny
Ahem, take a seat
Yes, thus assigning a value to in-game items, thus making lootboxes gambling by definition.
>Hey buddy, let me buy game X
>hey buddy, mind sending me the game X installer?
Wow, such a fucking huge difference.
So, it still encompass shit like books and movies and arguably, skins
Too late, German court already ruled that SAP can't restrict license resell.
This is actually a pretty weird situation for the video game industry. Its a double edged sword that might fuck up everyone involved. It sounds great on paper for consumers at first but without a doubt they will try to create new ways to rob the consumers of more rights. The game prices on steam would no longer be dictated by the publishers but by the consumers for games. The moneygrabbers at KONAMI or CA wouldnt be able to sell their games for 60€ even after 2 years after release that in return would get valve involved since they dont get any money either. What it in returns means is they are gonna discourage people from buying used steam games by putting restrictions on resold games like "Can on only download the game once on steam and create a safety copy" or along the lines.
>The law states they can't deny your right to sell said licenses but not that they have to create a marketplace for it.
Source? (unironically)
This. The people who established copyright laws don't even know how to properly push authority over their own IPs when it comes to digital, all they can do is send empty threats where most of the time it goes no where.
Consumer entertainment products that can be played on multimedia devices (music, films, games). This leaves out B2B industrial software.
Its not like SAP , fuck off
This is way bigger nigger
>not that they have to create a marketplace for it
Correct
A transfer mechanic does have to be implemented, because not implementing one IS denying your right to resell. Literally what happened with the refund debate as well.
How fucking dumb are you?
The method of piracy is what's in dispute.
Fucking smoothbrain.
>Hey epic I wanna sell my dance emotes
>Sure go ahead
>But how do I?
>Idk not our problem, good luck and if you find a way it's not illegal so we hope you figure it out
>Ok well I guess that makes sense
I can make up stupid conversations too faget
That would fuck industrial B2B software developers that e.g. create software for structural engineers. Where are they going to get their R&D costs back and their return on investment?
How do you resell it them? Email them and tell them I would like to transfer my license to account X? problem is, by default they are denying it.
>The game prices on steam would no longer be dictated by the publishers but by the consumers for games
PEOPLE STILL NEED TO BUY NEW GAMES FOR USED GAMES TO EXIST YOU TARD
>they are gonna discourage people from buying used steam games by putting restrictions on resold games like "Can on only download the game once on steam and create a safety copy" or along the lines
literally illegal
Nigger you're literally the only one here talking about torrents
Are you retarded? If a court rules you have a right to sell your skins then Epic has to facilitate that option because if it is impossible in the client to somehow turn the skin into a sell-able product then Epic is blocking the court order and will suffer from it.
Question: Should I be able to sell the Windows 10 on a PC that I own?
I think he meant in the long term, just like in the 90s. Not too many games had reprints...
>There is no way to sell the dance through your game tho
>Oh well, whatever
>YOU ARE NOT ALLOWING ME TO USE MY RIGHTS
like I said
Naive as fuck
why not just delete steam from france?
it's not like frogs play anything on pc
Same way they always do, by having annual release scheme.
>mfw everything digital you bought can be reselled in the future(music, pics, everything)
Yes, and legally you are, at least in Europe
Good question.
>not implementing [a marketplace] IS denying your right to resell
No it isn't.
There's no obligation for Valve to do this. All they have to agree to is not punishing people for doing it.
They will likely have to implememnt some method of license transferral, but a marketplace/UI will not be part of that.
This kills the indie developer
Epic has to make it so its possible for you to sell your shit. Period.
If its not allowing it, its unabling you to do so, therefore, it can be open for sueing because its a right.
BASED FRENCHIES
This is the dumbest fucking post on this site this week.
>People won't trade REAL games guys us GAMERS will come out on top
How does a lad get this much delusion?
>Valve would still get the same cut and the same tariff from player selling copies on the marketplace. Probably even more
>Publishers in the other hand would get fucked over by the lost sales
>Future video games storefronts would become a netflix-like service
Not sure if this will be good or bad
>They will likely have to implememnt some method of license transferral, but a marketplace/UI will not be part of that.
That's literally what I posted
>Publishers in the other hand would get fucked over by the lost sales
Reminder that no business in history stopped existing just because people resells stuff.
>talking about torrents
Yeah, and?
Are you saying torrents aren't a way that people pirate games? If so, you're more retarded than I though.
They cannot deny you reselling of your license. They don't have to make a marketplace but they have to implement license transfer feature.
Yeah now tell me how many people own a Porsche compared to people who own multiplayer games, which almost all punish players for "toxic" behavior.
I guarantee the latter is much more common of an occurrence, and usually these reports and bans that deprive people of their game are over something harmless instead of any actual harassment.
A lot of communities are full of wimps who actively call for mass reporting if a player so much as even moves wrong in a game. 99.99% of these report systems are automated and certain buzzwords like "racist" and "bullying" get picked up much easier.
Fact is most people get banned over something innocuous that the players reporting them have the power to stop, whether it's muting and blocking that person in matchmaking or some other simple thing to do.
Being unable to play unless you buy another copy of the game is stupid just because there's people out there who want to get offended first and play the game second.
Let's be real here lads. The more I think about this the more hilarious the clusterfuck is actually going to be.
The frogs didn't just get a snowball rolling. They got a fucking avalanche to slide down and it's looking to be incredible.
Do you like stadia?
Because everything will be streamed
Why the fuck are you talking about torrents?
>these fucking posts
Steam fans sztokholm syndrome kick in once again, it was like this with refunds too. Kill yourself faggots
That is not how the contemporary cloud based one version industrial market works user. Especially considering the current privacy laws. Version control would require local hosting of data and no company is going to take that risk with the current EU fines on data leaks.
Tell that to my used AC4 copy that probably changed hands more than you your underwear. Just because new games need to be bought doesnt mean that it isnt gonna hurt sales when you can get the same game in pristine condition except cheaper. I would never buy a videogame again and would just wait for the people to sell the games once they are finished (provided it is possible to resell them individually which I highly doubt)
reminder that steam already has a secondary market for digital goods implemented.
they made themselves a prime target for this bullshit precisely because they were already doing this bullshit with other things.
You were talking about a marketplace and licence transferral. They're two different things.
>Because everything will be streamed
We will see that
Good luck getting ISP to stop putting data caps.
>A transfer mechanic does have to be implemented
This is exactly how it works right now,, all structural software I used has annual release with very minor difference.
He said that "not implementing a marketplace is denying your right to resell".
I as saying that is incorrect.
Valve refusing to implement licence transfer is a denial of reselling though.
>muh refunds
Why are you all so retarded?
Reselling is not like refunds at all you fuck knobs.
If you refund something, you take it off the market again.
If you resell something, you let the product further circulate in the market.
>provided it is possible to resell them individually which I highly doubt
that's literally what the ruling was.
We were comparing piracy and used games.
Try to keep up.
Better yet, just go neck yourself.
What are you talking about?
My ass (unironically)
>Literally what happened with the refund debate
Damn really well shit. I'll need a source on that but big if true.
I guess we'll switch over to always online bullshit where if someone is already playing that single player game with your key you have to wait for them to log off before you play.
Nigga steam accounts are already sold. You take cash and give username + password.
That doesn't seem right to me but I suppose it's not impossible for law makers to be as stupid as you
Doesn't make sense but seeing as so many of you retards exist im starting to think it might be possible your genes have infected the law makers of France
This does not logically make sense but whatever bro. I understand law isn't about logic. I GUESS WE'LL SEE SOON THEN NIGGA.
Does this mean I can finally sell my Overwatch, cos good god that was a total waste of money
No, we're not
You started talking torrents out of the blue, which is both irrelevant and unrelated to the topic on hand.
But I don't want to sell my account, I want to sell my license that I own.
I wonder how many people will stop buying retail and only look for bargains on resale.
I think this ruling is just going to make developers push pre-orders even more because those initial sales and frontloading of sales is going to be even more important now.
Hmm what market? I am in education software and we just have one cloud based version that gets updates continously. I mean, it would be unworkable if we had to update each client seperately since students depend on the software to work
Is it legal to resell games I bought in dead platforms?
I mean, I can't download it anymore but I have a copy of it.
If I sell my only copy, I can't play the game anymore.
cloud based software, is different as license is subscription based.
Listen up faggots this is what's going to happen:
>Valve loses the appeal
>they begrudgingly accept that reselling is a thing but make the entire process utterly bonkers infuriating and annoying to do
>EU asks Valve why they make the resellers just through so much hoops
>Valve says that it's to protect consumers from hackers/scammers/people who want to exploit the infant system
>EU reluctantly accepts the reality of the digital medium
>every other publisher/storefront copes Valve's horrifically retarded hoop jumping resell system
>Damn really well shit. I'll need a source on that but big if true.
EU enforced its return policy on digital goods.
A first, valve implements it by having you write a mail to support, and like three weeks later they get around to it implement it as an automated feature in the store.
>That doesn't seem right to me but I suppose it's not impossible for law makers to be as stupid as you
Do you honestly believe that you could circumvent the court order by leaving it impossible to transfer skins to another player?
The consumer would have a "right" to sell their skins and if you can't even so much as transform that skin into a code then yes, Epic would have to implement that feature, otherwise you wouldn't be able to sell your skins that you now have a legal precedent to do, thus Epic is violating the court order.
Nigger, if its ruled that the consumer have the right to resell their product Steam/Epic whatever cant just look and say "Okay,
I guess you are right, tough luck with selling them tho"
They need to allow you to sell it, and only sell the specific product you want or they are hurting a consumer right.
Jesus christ stop trying to suck so many cocks
Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
>I think this ruling is just going to make developers push pre-orders even more
You're also able to sell every single piece of pre-order bonus or DLC or additional content tied to that specific game, so that won't work.
>What?
the money grubbing jews of steam thought it would be brilliant to introduce a secondary market for digital goods to get fees off of instead of just letting the gamers trade stuff as they always had....
the toxic moneygrubbing jews of the community that dont buy any game not in a -90% sale and who fund their wallets with the community market as much as possible thought "why can't i resell the games too?"
Yes, we were.
The fact that your simple brain can't keep up is the issue now.
and so this man has become your enemy for speaking the truth
>as license is subscription based.
Isn't every software product licence based?
based truthposter
like the refund system?
dude, courts aren't idiots and can tell when you try to weasel out of a court order.
Fuck off.
It's to protect consumers from people abusing the system. Why would they not agree to that?
But the thing is when you buy a steam game part of its price is for using the steam infrastructure. Reselling games means that an infinite number of people can use that infrastructure for free.
The absolute stupidity of this post. Your abhorrent lack of understanding of high school economics is lacking, at best.
You too .
Selling your account isnt the same as selling a license, are you a fucking mongoloid?
When you sell an account you are selling more than just the license, the account is not a product, it was not sold to you, its not a good.
The license is what is being discussed here
Fuck off with your tinfoil delusion
ISPs will just increase the data caps just like they did when movie streaming started to become popular, but at the same time doesn't stop them from increasing the bill.
Because courts have IT specialists that can tell when plaintiffs are being obnoxious cunts.
Are you literally 12?
No, this is huge misnomer, games, music, movies ETC all have license for lifetime I don't remember technical name for it. This means you cannot change EULA in the middle of me buying my movie, I bought product and it's set in stone.
Subscription based software can do the fuck it wants, it can even change guarantees in the middle of you buying it.
You can use steam for free
>buy game
>copy it
>resell the original
>get paid for piracy
Yeah, I'm thinking france is based.
>But the thing is when you buy a steam game part of its price is for using the steam infrastructure.
Not when you buy Steam keys.
Valve doesn't sees a single cent out of those sales.
lol you seriously believe that? We have media groups here too you know... And at least in the US they make it fair by not having laws hindering you from making your own succesful company.
Didn't read, try not opening with ad hominem next time
What I mean is, they're going to try to get people to buy pre-order and initial release purchases INSTEAD of waiting for a cheaper "used" copy.
I'm referring to getting people to buy into the whole "I need to play it on day 1, or else I'll miss out" aspect of people nowadays.
An example is Borderlands 3 - a lot of people were unwilling to wait for 6 months for a Steam release, so capitulated and bought the Epic version.
The same mentality will be what developers bank on, hoping people won't want to wait for "used" copies to become available.
Keep in mind, "used" copies sold on day 2 of release won't be much cheaper than retail and supply won' emeet demand (maybe - it's yet to be seen how many people will prefer used over retail).
>Not creating a means to do so is denying
So weed is legal = state must open dispensaries or they're breaking the law?
Let me answer for you, FUCKING NO.
>BUT HURR DURR user YOU CAN GROW YOUR OWN WEED SO THE CONSUMER ALREADY HAS A REASONABLE METHOD OF GETTING WEED SO THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING.
well selling your account is a reasonable method for transferring skins. Suck my dick they are not going to implement trading of individual assests. It's a fucking logistical nightmare for small companies.
The basic idea of the logic is that creating systems to stop users from their right (selling digital goods) is illegal. But in no way does that necessitate creating an entire system for it.
Glanced over the thread. Has anyone mentioned that this absolutely destroys the entire digital store-based software economy? Forget about Steam and game stores for a second, what about App Stores? The volume of app sales far exceed any game related stuff; do you think Apple and Google will allow people to resell apps on their stores?
Also there's a simple way for every single game store company to get around this problem: Sell a subscription for access to the store. If you have to pay $1 a year to access Steam, it counts as a subscription and not outright buying digital software, problem solved. Steam can even make it so that $1 from your net purchases for a year go towards the subscription fee.
Basically the French courts are retarded. You can't ignore the digital economy for literally decades then get butthurt about how intangibility and the means to copy software infinitely for "free" makes it impossible to create a traditional marketplace that respects all the freedoms afforded to tangible goods (first sale doctrine, etc)
wow if they allow game resale that would actually be cool
Okay got it, but in the B2B market these things get negotiated in an quotation.
they will increase your bill
remember, the corporations never lose, everything will come out of your pocket.
the future is dark
>I need to play it on day 1, or else I'll miss out
At least for games with multiplayer, it's real.
>Has anyone mentioned that this absolutely destroys the entire digital store-based software economy?
Yes, and I love that.
How the fuck can you resell something that doesn't actually exist? Fucking retarded.
AHAHAHAH seethe more this law has existed for a long time it's just no one has pushed it yet
digital "goods" are a scam anyways, hope the EU blows that shit up
>You can't ignore the digital economy for literally decades then get butthurt about how intangibility and the means to copy software infinitely for "free" makes it impossible to create a traditional marketplace that respects all the freedoms afforded to tangible goods (first sale doctrine, etc)
This is the real cusp of the matter.
Governments should have been faster realizing the implications of the digital era but they weren't so now we're years into it trying to duct tape all the fucking leaks that keep popping up because they left it unchecked for so fucking long.
>Your abhorrent lack of understanding of high school economics
Yeah sorry, my problem is that I actually understand economics, and not the watered down highschool shit that retarded namefags use.
You really seems to think people would pay extra for streaming. Ret-
Based.
>What I mean is, they're going to try to get people to buy pre-order and initial release purchases INSTEAD of waiting for a cheaper "used" copy.
Oh alright, yeah I misunderstood that.
>do you think Apple and Google will allow people to resell apps on their stores
They're gonna have to, if someone sues.
>how intangibility and the means to copy software infinitely for "free" makes it impossible to create a traditional marketplace
This is literally about your right to re-sell a license, which is not related at all to physical markets.
>logical fallacies!
Psuedointellectual redditor detected
Or okay let's say I concede to your argument. What if the companies just create a way to transfer the goods? Like steams inventory system for games you've bought as a gift.
They don't need to create a market place or methods to take payment. The consumer will have to handle that on their own.
GOG is fucked, this concept does not work with DRM-free games. You can buy any game on GOG, download it and then resell it and the game still works since there is no DRM.
I can't wait for steam to introduce a sell back feature where you get pennies on the dollar just like the good old days in gamestop!
>devs making good games to try and make money
Look at this fucking moron and laugh.
>You can buy any game on GOG, download it and then resell it and the game still works since there is no DRM.
Same with Steam and Epic Games Store with several games.
Think of it like this, you buy a paper mill, you buy maintenance for that machine it's yours, manufacturer can't come in and take it back.
If you lease it, it's not yours and manufacturer in theory can come and take it.
Same idea with this license thing.
Nothing wrong with that.
You can also download a GOG game and then refund it, and then share the installer with your friends.
How does this change literally anything?
Wow it's almost like physical constraints aren't applicable to digital media.
And nobody is fucking saying it's going to "stop existing", they're saying it's going to lead to the death of single player games and lead to "games as a service" forever.
Don't have sex.
Unless the French government proposes some way to ensure all game files are transferred to the buyer (the means, the seller no longer has access to them) this whole idea is fucked.
None of your statements make sense, and they're all riddled with hypothetical arguments and assupmtions.
First, you assume that supply of digital games is limitless, when it isn't and never will be.
Second, you argue that people could just trade things, which is ASSUMES every person would do it, and many people would willingly trade their game to get a new one, and that every game they trade is equal in value. I would bet many people wouldn't even trade their games because they want to go back one day and play it again
Its kind of crazy when you think about it. A lot of judges are total boomers who a lot of the time barely understand how the internet works and yet here they are deciding the future.
It does it because... because of reasons.
I mean, "blowing that shit up" would literally mean Steam becomes subscriber based for the EU. Do you get to resell your netflix sub in the EU? It makes no difference, it'll just be a slight reclassification in the end.
if there's no way to protect digital intellectual property in the EU, the EU will just be pure subscription based, you'll pay for the inconvenience you cause big corporations. The people never win against corporate lawyers.
And with this developers will struggle to make money.
Goodbye purchasing digital games and welcome back to monthly/annual services/access passes.
Everyone here is so busy focusing on how to destroy Valve, they don't realize this could affect the face of how we buy games again, it could just become more expensive or inconvenient in the long run.
Also I struggle to see the reason anyone thinks they should be able to resell digital content in the first place? Can you do this with movies and music in France also? Can this work with other non-tangibles? Can people resell or sell back their degrees/diplomas etc.
Obviously some of these questions are rhetorical and are not begging the answer but seriously why are we just making rules on an already fine system that shithole companies are just going to make shittier and more awful ways to purchase content just to get around this?
Normalfags don't do things that are against the law however this is completely legal. The reason piracy doesn't kill companies is only because good goys don't pirate.
>Don't have sex.
>t.
wrong. here's what's actually going to happen...
>Valve drops appeal.
>Community Market introduces game reselling.
>Steam collects a 50cent market placement fee from the seller to place the game for resale
>Steam collects a 40% transaction fee from a resale
>Developers collect a 50% user transfer fee from a resale
>quality handcrafted single player dives
>more multiplayer games
>more procedurally generated infinite games
but some random guy on Yea Forums told me that if we get given consumer rights, nazis will roam the earth on dinosaurs!
You heard about Stadia?
Better get on board goyim. It's the way of the future now.
>welcome back acces passes
It's not only that, it destroys a lot of genres. For example Yea Forums favorite Deux Ex would have no place in this new economy. The only games making money would be AAA fornite style games.
Singleplayer gaming has another nail driven into its coffin.
Those lads are always telling you to have sex sweetie.
I'm pro eugenics.
Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?
kek
This was all a google plot to sell the stadia
All developers will flock to it
Yes, if you give women right to vote they will vote for women and then we all will be wearing skirts and dilate.
>they're saying it's going to lead to the death of single player games
Yeah, single-player games never existed in PC in the 90s when retail was the major way to deliver games nor today with console-only titles.
>lead to "games as a service" forever
Because all companies can afford that.
Nice boogeyman. Streaming is expensive as fuck, they won't take anyone.
This is just gonna help corporate anyways, nothing stopping Steam from putting a tax on this shit like they do with their current marketplace.
Its technically happening, but very slowly
There is no difference with digital media and physical media in this criteria, dumbass. Both aren't unlimited.
france is truly full of niggers, kek
Yeah, Google would waste millions in "Asset Flips #2562447125236."
>Nice boogeyman. Streaming is expensive as fuck, they won't take anyone.
You act like developers won't flock to Stadia's streaming-model in the face of a ruling like this.
It doesn't matter how expensive it si if it has ALL the games.
back to containment board with you
>First, you assume that supply of digital games is limitless, when it isn't and never will be.
You're amazing.
this, pajeets using frogs to dab on steam and epic
>For some reason this gets supported in EU courts
>Games suddenly become entirely Games as a Service titles or they bring back the fucking online pass
Great, super awesome future for games
They can't force you to resell the game with their market.
You are wrong in a way. Valave could make a system that takes a cut for itself and the developer but it cannot stop a third party system from making a system the undercuts it. So single player games would get fucked even harder. A game that used to sell 50,000 copies would now sell 5,000 and those would get passed around as "used" copies (essentially new copies because digital never ages). AA and indies gone forever and all that is left is AAA multiplayer meme games like Fortnite except now they are subscription based.
If Google gets its shekels from it, Google embraces it.
There's a reason they removed "don't be evil" from their code of conduct.
Jesus fuck, the Valve Internet Defense Force is getting too repetitive.
Women voted for migration and affirmative action, the two single most destructive things that ever happened after the atomic bomb.
Anyone wanna buy my used digital copy of anime-girl-dating-sim-visual-novel # 15472?
Which claim there needs evidence? Digital used games being the same as new ones is a fact. People wanting to pay less is a fact. Why do retards think screaming "Evidence?!" haphazardly makes them sound smart?
It isn't. You buy one game, you get one game, dumbass. You buy two, you get two.
You don't get unlimited copies of a game (the license in this instance) for buying it once
Jesus Christ, is Yea Forums full of brainlets with zero knowledge about how an economy works
not that user, explain to a brainlet like me why stopping to give services to a singular country would mean the entire EEZ too
considering that apparently only france is pushing this too, independently from the rest of the EEZ
What?
>If Google gets its shekels from it
Exactly. While it makes sense for normie titles, indie shit doesn't justifies the cost of making it streaming-friendly.
women didn't vote for this as it wasn't their decision, parliament that is majority men did.
Seems fair. If pirating games is stealing then you should be able to resell your copy.
>Valve Internet Defense Force
user are you retarded? This would affect all digital storefronts and all digital vidya
From taking a loss on a sub-par products, from being unable to manage your assets properly, from having their first-sale doctrine rights violated
Selling your account is not the same as selling individual products which is what the court order entails.
You are butt fucking retarded thinking this is in any way the same as fucking weed legality.
If I can't sell my individual products because there is no way to do so without selling my entire account then yes, they will have to facilitate a way for me to extract the specific product I want to sell without forcing me to sell everything.
I know this has all been debunked but it's just amazing to me that bootlickers like this exist outside of r/pcgaming
>The people never win against corporate lawyers.
Burger logic
The EU is one large market, its part of the EU agreement. Right now this is in a French court but the appeals happen in higher courts, if Valve loses there they would not be losing in a french court they would be losing in a EU court.
Even in the USA, there was the McD coffee case.
That's all covered by refunds.
Holy shit, this. Remember when Steam refunds were going to kill the games industry?
The evil need an evil saviour, Anonymous.
All they will realistically be forced to do is create a system that turns your skin or licenses or whatever into a redeemable code that you can use on a different account.
How one would make that system safe to use I have no clue but that would facilitate a way to sell your goods.
I don't think they will be forced to create a marketplace for the goods.
>No
Okay then, post dismissed, try again when you have something other than feelings to share
And the developer responded "for no particular reason, except that would make me less money, woe is me"
That's not what supply means. You should really finish that highschool economics class you're so proud of.
Reselling Netflix sub would have no change because Netflix still gets money every month. It would be pointless to buy a "used" Netflix sub since you woukd have to end up paying full price next month anyway.
Let's hope so
Real economist here
Thats not what unlimited supply means
Hell, I dont even know what you are trying to say, that one good is one good? Idk
Games have zero marginal cost, there is unlimited stock, and supply will always meet demand
I remember outlets saying how indies would die, don't remember Yea Forums sharing that sentiment.
>I know this has all been debunked
Not a single thing in that post has been even close to debunked. Literal retards screaming about corporations and misunderstanding basic economics is not a debunk.
You just disagreed that digital used is the same as digital new. Explain to me exactly how it's different. I'll wait.
Valve will easily win the appeal, y'all are fucking retarded for making a big deal of this.
Software has never been a good. It has always been licensed intellectual property. Sometimes those licenses are transferrable, or tied to a physical storage medium, but the idea that software has ever been a good like a chair or a table is just retarded.
Why is France so fucking stupid? They have bigger problems like their country being flooded by sub-Saharan niggers and sandniggers.
Fuck off, Cebruz.
Digital is unlimited you dumb fuck. Any dev could make a millom copies of their game in an instant, all copies that mever age. Ford can't take one ford f150 and copy it to make 1000 ford f150s, that all never age at zero price to the company. Digital does not function as physical.
I wonder where the balance lies between corporate and consumer interests here.
>y'all
No, it still means only one person (or rather account) can use that infrastructure. Just a different one
Reminder used games did in fact help kill AA games and this user is retardes. Also refunds brought on the death of old school Steam sales.
LE VIDEOGAMES ARE THE CAUSE OF IT ALL! LE IF WE SOLVE VIDEOGAMES THE WORLD IS FIXED!
Gotta be an interesting life being French.
>Also refunds brought on the death of old school Steam sales.
Yeah, they never were bait to bet people into using digital.
Based France paving the way for the future while burgers lick more corporate assholes and seethe.
>That's not what supply means
Now you're just baiting.
Fuck this shit.
>Games have zero marginal cost
>I'm an economist I swear
Okay. I guess that's why games are free right now, yes?
>Digital is unlimited you dumb fuck
No it isn't dumbass. If that was your argument I guess piracy would have shat on Valve and they would be bankrupt by now?
Valve gives out licenses to people to people who buy a game from them, making it limited. Jesus you people are dumb as hell
Valve accepts that because that's a new customer entering steam. Used game sales on steam would just be valve allowing a bunch of people to squat forever while they pay no money at all.
The argument was something along the lines of "if the game is less than two hours you can beat it then refund it" and apparently that would kill indies, walking sims and any kind of online multiplayer game. That obviously didn't happen. Sadly, in the latter two cases.
They're either indie shills or VIDF members.
One of them unironically thinked that "buy high sell low" makes any sense.
This site is 18+ only
>France
LMAO
You don't need to have a market, just a way to transfer your license to another account
>Valve accepts that because that's a new customer entering steam.
What about if it's not the first time said customer bought a Steam key?
>Now you're just baiting.
>how many copies of a game a consumer owns is what supply means
Which dictionary did you get this from?
>Valve gives out licenses to people to people who buy a game from them
Where is the limitation imposed on Valve here? Realistically, the only limitation is the limited number of combination of characters to assign to the keys they issue.
>Reminder used games did in fact help kill AA games
Never happened. AA games are just fine, AAA games are just so utterly over-advertised that AA games get lost in the noise.
Pcbros have gotten seriously insufferable lately.
>When did you realise Tim was the hero and Gaben was the villain?
You can resell games on EGS? That's neat.
lol what, it's all been thoroughly debunke, stop trying to argue against consumer rights, that might be normal in America but you're on the wrong side of history
It's another reason this makes no sense. Any giveaway ever might as well be a cash giveaway, instantly crashing the price of a game forever.
ITT broke faggot zoomers don't understand the difference between a physical good and intellectual property
Payback for the PS2/PS3 era console wars.
>get free games on epic and then sell them for money
>god bless Tim epic or whatever his last name is
Sell only physical copies then...
New thread
>AA games are fine
AA did die, Steam and digital help bring it back. During thhe 360 era used games starting killing smaller companies. Don't you remember the huge controversy about it, when publisher started putting in one time codes into new games. That was due to used game sales eating into their profits.
Both wrong, unless you have SOME evidence for your claims? ;)
Who the hell would buy a game that literally was free a day ago?
>it will affect all digital stores steams
No, dumbass. He's asking if the statement in the OP about how Epic supports consumer rights is valid? Is Epic doing this by choice, or even outside of this ruling's jurisdiction? Cuz if not this entire fucking thread is pointless.
>he thinks "number of copies a customers has" is what I meant by supply
Jesus, I'm talking with a brainlet. Are you "economists" this stupid and clueless about business
>Where is the limitation imposed on Valve here?
The number of fucking games people buy. They can't keep selling more when they run a damn business, dumbfuck. They can't make more if they don't earn money because the people who made the game have a cut from the selling price they slapped on the game
That's it, I'm out of this thread. The sheer amount of shills here shitting on consumer rights is abhorrent.
would that mean that if you want to sell something to a EU country you are "forced" to sell it in the entire EU? if no, why couldn't they just exclude one too?
New thread
rip indie game devs lol
No.
Current thread
You're both complete fucking idiots.
Software is information, instructions. Infinitely reproducible and transferrable at near-zero cost. That's why it's intellectual property.
Licenses are a way to sell the right to use the information and form a kind of scarcity to allow it to make money at all
>miss giveaway
>no longer free
>NoScopeCuckold_69 sells the game for two bucks
>government makes a ruling to preserve consumer rights
>some fucking corporation 'disagrees'
>refuses to participate
sometimes i wish judicial systems could be a bit more vindictive so i could watch valve get wrecked for this. i fucking hate corporations
>i'm a steam drone for knowing epic is spyware dogshit
>but i'm not a steam drone because i think it would be cool to be able to resell games
Make up your mind you ching chong faggots.
New thread
Depends, in some cases yes you can exclude one country. But the way this specific case is going will be that of Valve loses the they must accept used game sales in all of EU, it would also affect any digital sales in all markets. Books, movies, etc.
you geniusses yet have to see the more grim option; that is that Valve will simply retract from France. That would be highly ironical, and all valve needs to do to win is not give up and the white flags will rise.
Good as well, why the fuck should a company be able to give something away on Friday and charge $60 for it on Saturday.
Based France putting corporations in their place
Hmmm...
>Yeah, single-player games never existed in PC in the 90s when retail was the major way to deliver games nor today with console-only titles.
Yes but DIGITAL GAMES AREN'T SUBJECT TO PHYSICAL CONSTRAINTS.
HENCE THE EXISTENCE OF RETAILERS SUCH AS GAMESTOP WHO COULD MAKE A BUSINESS ON BUYING OLD GAMES AND RESELLING THEM.
AND EVEN THEN YOU HAD TO PHYSICALLY TRAVEL TO GAMESTOP, AND TAKE WHAT THEY GAVE YOU.
YES YOU COULD TRADE GAMES BUT THE GAMESTOP BUSINESS MODEL SHOWED THAT WASN'T COMMON ENOUGH TO BE USEFUL TO MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE PHYSICAL BARTERING IS FAR MORE RESOURCE INTENSIVE THAN DIGITAL.
THIS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION WITH NOTHING IN COMMON WITH RETAIL GAMES IN THE 90S.
YOU
DENSE
FUCK.
>6 hours ago
>but this thread is 1 hour ago
Sounds like you're shilling for your own dying thread, fag.
Can someone explain what this means and what will happen to a brainlet?
but it is already going that way or you think it will?
also if, say, gaben was a time traveler and pulled steam out of france only just before the thing started would it be okay then? only curious about this question by the way
>arguing semantics
Shut the fuck up
New thread
What a pity. Only offer physicial copies if that bothers you so much.
>Which is not the case within the EU
When you buy a game digital or physical, you're not gaining ownership over the source code of the game, you're buying a license for the executable that runs the source code.
You are just really fucking stupid. It's like you think companies just... do what they do regardless of the current business environement and never react to anything and don't have any motive.
>The number of fucking games people buy.
That's a limitation of demand, not supply.
>he thinks "number of copies a customers has" is what I meant by supply
>You buy one game, you get one game, dumbass. You buy two, you get two.
>but you're on the wrong side of history
Oh, it's a shitpost.
New thread
Yeah, keep thinking Electronic Arts and Ubisoft will accept your games.
Kill yourself, please.
Autistic faggot. We all know you don't get access to the IP when buying a book, a CD or a DVD/BD, but we do have the rights to resell them. Dilate.