Steam Games Reselling

Steam take the gamepass pill

Oh boy, new means of money laundering!

Yes, but this is fucking bullshit.
You wanna work as a subscription, then charge a monthly subscription, not 100 bucks for the super turbo autist preorder edition of some game.

>hurt the devs
That would just get things back to normal, retard.

It's impossible. Even if you implemented some kind of "resale tax" so the dev gets some of the money, the dev is still receiving less net income than if they had made a full sale.
Doesn't work because even if the game is amazing, you'll still sell it after you're done with it. All games get old user.

Just make it so stupidly hard to use that noone bothers, not even scammers.

"You don't own the games, you own a license to play them.
Thus you can't resell the games, as you do not own them."

>Doesn't work because even if the game is amazing, you'll still sell it after you're done with it. All games get old user.
No I fucking dont because I'm not a fucking hobo who needs money for drugs

You can't. The entire concept in the digital market is absolutely stupid.

>Introduce sellable "used" digital games
>They have to be a lower price than "new" otherwise nobody would bother
>How do you decide the developer/publisher/store split on a "used" game?
>How do you introduce this system without hampering the sale of "new" digital games?

The entire foundation of the digital market is one time purchases. Changing this in any way is going to be like a fucking tsunami taking out the foundations of a bridge.

>you should also be able to convert your steambucks in real money.
Virtual economies becoming real economies sounds like a nightmare. People making real money off virtual goods with no real value. Plus, said virtual goods have many weaknesses, I.E. glitches in the system like the recent TF2 crate debacle, or simply changing under the whims of the company that controls the drop rates.

Like they always should have.
>Doesn't work because even if the game is amazing, you'll still sell it after you're done with it. All games get old user.
You do realize that's what worked since the creation of video games, right?

Elaborate.

>Buy games from GOG
>Copy that floppy and sell hundreds of copies
>It's all legal

HUEHUEHUE

I just hope they implement it, because it's not going to work and I want the industry to crash.

Daily reminder that Steam is just going to pay a fine of under €1M instead and NOT implement anything.

>allow people to sell games on Steam Market with %30tax
>valve lowers their %30cut on steam store

How many games do you have in your library? How many of them have gone untouched for months? Can you really say that you would not turn in a game that's lost your attention in return for money?

Are the French going to fine every other digital distribution store for doing the exact same thing?

>How do you decide the developer/publisher/store split on a "used" game?
>I want to give money to devs/pubs for no reason
You don't own them shit, your game is bought, when you resell it, 100% of the money is yours.
>How do you introduce this system without hampering the sale of "new" digital games?
There's no reason to care. Weren't you born when digital wasn't a thing and that there was absolutely no regulation about how/when people sold their used games or what?

Steam gets 0%
Developers get 50% of the sale price

I have quite a lot of physical copies that go back to the PS1
It's something called sentimental value, you fucking chink

You can resell the licence is literally what the French court ruled.

As long as they get sued yes.

>Realistically, how would you implement this without hurting devs?
Make microtransactions items resalable as well.

Do you think video games didn't exist before steam?

This and game must be played for an amount of hours

>You don't own them shit
You're not living in some fucking magical bubble here. Steam will have to negotiate this system with every big wig game company on the planet to find a solution they like.
>There's no reason to care.
Cute, except every single developer, publisher and store DOES give a shit. You not caring is meaningless in the equation.

Most people don't sell their shit and if they do, it's often several years before they bought them.

As odd as it sounds, this is probably Steam's best option in the short term. It would save valve the trouble of having to implement a new system while also protecting they're investments with devs and studios. In the long term, they'd have to re-work the terms of service to somehow either make re-sells profitable for both themselves and the devs, or work around the french ruling.

The next question is how does epic handle this?

I'm aware that's what worked. I'm not saying that the digital age is flawless. In fact, it's flaws are what drives my argument. You can't hack reality, make a thousand copies of the disk you own, and sell them all at gamestop for easy money. But you can if it's digital. We already have the problem of shady sites producing steam keys and selling them at slashed prices.

Why should it be any different than how it works with physical user, go ahead, explain.

Players get 10%, Steam gets 10%, devs get 80%.

>Realistically, how would you implement this without hurting devs?
Devs would start requiring players to make accounts tied to their keys. The key is resold, so is the account. It doesn't prevent resales but it prevents abuse of the system where people just sell to each other back and forth for nothing while both keeping the save data.

I'm no expert in international business or law, but what's to stop Valve from simply withdrawing their presence from France? Couldn't they just have French customers purchase from their US store and download from their US servers?

With physical you can just hand that shit over to someone, how are you going to sell your digital shit? You're going to have to use the same digital store you bought it from to transfer the license and for that fact alone you're going to lose part of the sale to them.

>Why should it be any different than how it works with physical user
Digital product doesn't aging. Retards should shit Digital with their physical beuracracy

There is absolutely no way to prevent physical games from being traded in/sold to other parties over and over again. With digital, there are countless ways to prevent this. The entire market is based on the idea that a game can only be purchased once. This is why PC stores have significantly better prices than consoles, because on console you can just buy pre-owned for half the pirce. Physical games that are used degrade over time, this has a tangible effect on their value. This does not apply to digital video games.

How absolutely short-sighted do you have to be to think stores, developers and publishers would take to this with smiling faces? They're going to do everything in their power to just provide the bare minimum because it'll fuck the entire market.

Do you really believe what you just typed? No, you won't be able to resale hacked copies through platforms like steam. Never.

>Sell someone a game for $50
>Actually get $5
Well, it would certainly stop people from ever using the feature.

Or to put it differently, instead of "please insert the CD to continue" it will become "please log into the account to continue".

Wouldn't this ruling pretty much effect every digital store? Shit like itunes even? Why is Steam the only one getting grilled?

This would be illegal. The EU does not allow geoblocking, either they sell to everyone or to no-one.

>my servers are in the middle of the ocean so i can host anything on it, nothing is illegal here amongst the waves
this is you

What's the problem with reselling anyway?
You can resell physical games and nobody complains, why can't it be the same for digital other than being greedy kikes that want to destroy second hand market?

>what's to stop Valve from simply withdrawing their presence from France
The fact that France gave the ruling based on European law which means all other EU states can give a similar ruling.

The money generated by the resold game is split in different share for each party.
20% for the player
20% for Steam
60% for the devs

Why not? I have a shitton games in my library I'll happily sell away for a couple of bucks. Namely any singleplayer garbage I won't touch again.

It will effect every digital games distribution platform. Steam, Epic, Bethesda, Battle.net, Origin, uPlay, Rockstar, all of them. Steam is getting grilled because this is the PC version of console wars and retards are too busy thumbing their noses to realize the broader implications of this ruled

You guys aren't focusing on the most retarded thing going

>You should be able to take your Steam funds back from your account!

Old fogeys don't understand how easy this would make money laundering. You'd dump it right on the fucking lap of the public.

Well then couldn't they do the same for all EU states. What I'm saying is, if they don't have a legal presence in those countries, how would those courts have jurisdiction over them?

>if someone is ripping you off, you should let them doing so because if you make them stop they won't be able to keep ripping you off
Genius.

>Sell games
>Use money to buy more games
>Repeat
How will this "hurt the industry" again?

I don't know if it's illegal or not but there are THOUSANDS of geoblocked shit in EU dude.

>let's pull out from the biggest market after US
I'm sure that works well for the business.

i wanna resell most of those garbage indies.

You have yet to explain how any digital-based company would implement this without fucking developers and publishers so hard in the ass that they'd be better off going into real-world trades.

>Oh we sold a few thousand copies and now everybody is just selling and buying the used copies because the average Steam user plays a game for two minutes and then drops it
>We made like $5 in profit

You forgot that it would kill a lot of shitty devs that make bad games nobody should have to pay for. We would have less quantity but better quality.

I know. They came out with this law about a year ago I think? And nobody bothered to sue those sites. Steam would be adifferent story.

What? How am I being ripped off exactly? I was just explaining how reselling is most likely going to work and how you're definitely not going to see 100% of the money.

>EU bigger than China
lol
LOL

>Buy used physhical game
>Might not work
>No warranty at all
>Case and manual can be busted

>Buy used digital game
>????

Why not? What's stopping me from buying a cheap steam key of the latest big game off G2A, playing it for a bit, then selling my used game, possibly for more than i bought if for? Hell, rather than buy from G2A, why not just generate my own steam keys in the same manner they do, and sell them used that way?

AND FOR BONUS POINTS: If the absurd ruling that you should be able to convert virtual steambucks to real money ever becomes reality, then the above process results in literally printing money.

No I don't because that's not the subject. The subject is "why we shouldn't care about them" not "what they want".

But they wouldn't be pulling out. The French customers would be downloading the client from a US based server, accessing downloading games from the US based server, and purchasing games in US dollars from the US store.

"Streaming" will become the new "Digital Downloads" in 10 years time. All this French ruling does is convince the influential people with money that ownership of vidgames is even more dead than before.

Hope you enjoyed the "classic Steam" era, now prepare for the "Cable TV Steam" era where you pay Gabe $20 bucks a month for the basic package, followed by additional money if you want to play the AAA-games.

Keyword is "should".

Aside from
>Just stop selling to the EU
>how would those courts have jurisdiction over them?
It's EU law.
Long and short of it is that because france has done this, every single member of the EU, including the UK for the time being, can use it as precedent.

>We would have less quantity but better quality.
Literally the fucking opposite you moron.
>Spend time money and manpower on something that might be good on a subjective level.
>Spend the same amount or even less on scientifically proven methods to entice players to keep paying.
Subscriptions, microtransactions, sunk cost fallacy, all the shit that mmos and mobile games do will now be industry wide thanks to france.

>I don't care what they think
And this is why the crux of your argument is fucking retarded, it's on the same level as a climate change lunatic.

>Stop all flights, it's hurting the environment!
>And how do you suppose we make up for the removal of our most efficient form of transport?
>Don't care, you're fucking us!

You're making the LITERAL SAME argument Steam made when they lost the refunds case.
kotaku.com.au/2016/03/why-valve-was-found-guilty-of-breaching-australian-consumer-law/

You can sell Steam accounts right?
At what point is Valve actually 'forbidding' the resale of games, vs they just haven't created a feature for it?

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The fact that the games would be sold through the platform only?
The fact that if the key was the only verification method you wouldn't need the launcher to play your game?

most people barely know how to use a computer and you want them to use a client in a langage they don't speak and purchase things with a currency they don't own or know the value of
if you want to do business in a place you have to respect the laws of that place and most importantly be taxed by said place

Presumably full price will stay up for longer
Cut on resale to the devs for at least a while because Steam is taking a cut on the transaction anyway
Minimum resell price for a while after release.

On the other hand, eternal early access because can't resell an unrelease product
Even more always online bullshit
Even shorter server lifespan if a game does not reach a given sales objective
Obligatory permanent connection that makes the recent BL3 thing look tame
Even more preorder bonuses and in limited amount like in Mankind Divided

>without hurting devs
why? It's their game problem if you don't want to keep them

>doesn't even argue about the subject anymiore
>you argument is fucking retarded
Sure thing genius.

As it stands right now any sold account is bannable by Steam.

What is there to argue with you?

>Here are the reasons why this is dumb and doesn't work in a digital marketplace
>YEAH BUT WHY SHOULD I CARE? JUST DO IT

You are actually really retarded, dude.

I purchase items from Japanese stores with my Visa card. The credit card company coverts it for me. And why couldn't the US store just have more language options?

It's okay user, next time you'll read the whole discussion and try to understand it before jumping in. You're forgiven because of your subpar reading comprehension skills and low IQ.

>but better quality.
>AAA and f2p
>better quality

>owner get they least amount for the sale of his own property
oy vey

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>The fact that if the key was the only verification method you wouldn't need the launcher to play your game?
This is where i reveal that i'm a fucking brainlet. Why DO you need the launcher anyway? Doesn't steam have an offline mode, implying that it doesn't need constant connection to let you play?

>You don't own them shit, your game is bought, when you resell it, 100% of the money is yours.

I don't see that working on steam though. I'd imagine if they did impliment it, it'd be something similar to their card system where selling on their market place steam gets a cut, the developer gets a cut and the rest you get.

Regardless of the developer, steam would insist on a cut somewhere since I can't imagine you being able to sell any of the games outside of the Steam system unless they turn it into a key, which opens a whole new kettle of fish.

Nice kettle steamcuck.

>Brainlet who hasn't put forth a single point worth discussing acts all high and mighty

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>any indie ever
>better than any AAA
Go to bed tranny.

Anyone wants to buy my copy of FF XIII?

I mean... look at the bright side.
Remember those shitty humble bundle games you got for free? You'll be able to resell them.

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kek, looks like it hit close to home. Go tell your mom, retardokun.

It's going to be Gamestop-tier trade-ins. Trade-ins are classed as re-selling your goods.

Enjoy that $0.25 for "trading in" your latest AAA title a month after release.

Where does ''I don't know anything'' and ''I'm retarded'' fit in that chart?

they have servers around the world dumbass

low/low by the looks of it

>People have been buying and reselling their games irl for ever
>Developpers publishing through Steam should get treated as special snowflakes because why not
The state of this fucking thread.

Physical versus digital you fucking retard.

Digital is an intangible product that does not age, it does not degrade. It remains in "perfect condition" for the duration of its accessible life. The entire crux of the problem is that it's no fucking different from a "new" version of a digital game, thus there is no inherent reason for there to be a price difference.

Steam users are reddit cucks letting black bulls breeding their wives. Why are you so surprised?

But my point is if you aren't a legal entity in that nation; if you have no staff, no physical property, if you aren't registered as a business, what standing does the court have to say that you're violating their laws if you aren't even doing business in their country? Valve's problem is that they are currently a legal entity or registered business in these countries.

>>Digital is an intangible product that does not age, it does not degrade. It remains in "perfect condition" for the duration of its accessible life.
Because you think you actually buy the box& Bluray disc in the physical version, and that the 60$ is not an arbitrary pricetag for a digital license that you in fact, own forever until you resell it?

Are you living in a nigger area? Because all the "used" games I've ever bought were fucking pristine. Your shithole isn't representative of the whole world user.

>durr Steam, Steam!
This sets a precedent for the entire internet, you queer. Enjoy watching prices inflate to the levels of physical retail because of this decision. Enjoy watching developers and publishers bring back the old-style 2010 Season Passes that literally gutted content from the game and were only handed out with new copies in an attempt to combat second hand purchases.

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>Because you think you actually buy the box& Bluray disc in the physical version
The value of the game is defined by the value of the disc, the box, the artwork, the manual etc.

>Steam geoblocks all of EU

How is this different than legalizing pirating?
If 1/4th of the sales were resales 3 times, you would essentially quarter the sales?

Does france not allow movies unless the ticket can be continously resold?
I normally dont take this side, but this is mind boggling stupid.

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Going by the article, and the fact the court based their decision on european laws, I would suppose that they would need to remove their presence in Europe as a whole completely for that argument to hold water.
Seems really unlikely that Valve will stop providing the service to Europe as a whole. I don't know how much money they make off that market, but I presume its greater than zero.

If its bad enough it might be under zero

>Does france not allow movies unless the ticket can be continously resold?
Cinemas, much like restaurants are services, you pay people to project the film/ make your food, not the movie/food itself.
You can resell your movie DVDs however, how is that bad thing?

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Honestly.
How did no one just skip the middle man and sell online?

I would expect this.

Why woulf anyone go to a movie theater?

How the fuck can you lose money from second hand sales?
EA and Activision need not argue over this.

So, if Valve decides to remove their presence in Europe, and a French person opens up their web browser and goes to store.steampowered.com, what will happen. Will the ISP block it?

I doubt it still.
A sale is a sale. They take a cut from anything in the market, they might still through resales.
Obvious conjecture, but in the event they can still generate a profit off used digital games, and also share that with the devs, both would turn a profit.
Games being sold piecemeal and even more DLCs, thus more transactions on the platforn, their profit might even increase.

A few publishers have tried. But an established service is hard to compete with, and maintaining servers is not free.
Getting some money off Steam or Epic is better than paying for everything and thus getting less money.

You can't just censor an entire culture of videogames, doesn't work that way

>Steam geoblocks EU
>EU legalizes piracy in retaliation
I like this.

The visual and audio systems are significantly better than what i have in my home.

Reverse engineering is already legal, I wouldn't be surprised

My guess is they're going to allow refunds for any reason in France and to convert Steam money into real money. It's the same in principle but it'll stop most kind of abuse.

How the fuck can you lose money from pirating?

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>Steam geoblocks EU
>blocking the largest market on the planet
Nobody would do that

Which real money? Can I convert rubles to USD at insane rates?

Maybe France is based after all...

People paying for digital are idiots anyway so yeah, I can support this.

this whole thing is a god damned shitshow, and sounds sketchy as hell. from a ecinomical point of view, id both see it as oppurtunistic and catastrophic because yeah your gonna sell your shitty game you bought because steam sales are a wallet graveyard, but who the fuck is gonna buy something that you dont want and that is shit, and if you do sell your good games you wanna get rid of, then at best you make 5.00 and loss from whatever you bought it from. from a consumer point of view, this is also shitty because good games made by small people go up due to inflation for more money, making the consumer not spend on any game regardless of who its developed by. on top of all that this isnt even a good decision for any big business or government, becuase it basically means that legal piracy and online money laundering from games can be made. this whole thing can go to hell and words cannot express how much i hate france right now!

How would it not work? Are you saying they won't be able to access the site and make purchases? Because I honestly don't know.

Nah.
I can see steam start a subscription service for refunds. Otherwise they simply bleed money.

Imagine making your fortune with Steamcoin arbitrage. What a story that would make...

Amerimutts elected the embodiment of incompetence into the White House, there is nothing you can NOT expect from Amerimutts.

>blocking the largest market on the planet

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>Enjoy watching prices inflate to the levels of physical retail because of this decision.
Only idiots will suffer from this, I'll enjoy it.
>Enjoy watching developers and publishers bring back the old-style 2010 Season Passes that literally gutted content from the game and were only handed out with new copies in an attempt to combat second hand purchases.
Only retards buy games with DLC, I'll enjoy it.

And I'll drink your imbecile's tears.

You guys are really obsessed with us lol.

We'll just ship to Britain instead and make them a videogame superpower again

why are people pretending like this only affects steam?

>the largest market on the planet

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Are you saying that season passes will be account locked?
Cause it sure looks like season passes will be account locked and non-sellable.

They'll just pay a fine

They should simply make a tip button so that americans will be happy to give their money to developpers for no reason and the rest of the world will have access to better prices.

A clap button would also be a great addition so that other americans could clap when someone tips a developper.

I have no idea user. When did this place go full retard?

French dont think these things through.

Because people love cherry picking Steam while giving other "angelic" companies a pass.

I don't want them to pay a fine
I want them to change their ways for good

The real fine they will pay will be cost spent on implementing the new system

>I don't buy games
Then why the hell do you even care? Actual consumers over here about to get screwed by the aftermath of this garbage as corporations start engaging in even scummier tactics to net more profits. Nothing has changed for pirates, this doesn't affect you. You sound like some gay little anarchist.

Nobody does. People use steam as an exemple because it's the most popular one. Are you stupid?

Do you not tip?
Do they just give out free blowjobs in europe?

But yeah, the threat of Valve turning off all PCs in France is real

That's how it worked with NES cartridges, and though Nintendo would probably have preferred to get a cut from every resale, they didn't get a say since the cartridge became the legal property of the buyer when sold.
You can still buy used NES cartridges, and this is absolutely terrible for Nintendo, since the original products are directly competing with their emulator platform.

>I only know of games that are ripping my ass off
Wow user, wow.

Are you?

>lets legalise pirating to screw over silicone valley

Fucking power grubbing eu.

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>buy game
>transfer it unto an external hdd
>sell game
>still get to play game in offline mode
Never happening.
Like someone already said itt - Steam will just pay the fine and tell them to fuck off.

>McDonald'sPGM tipped you $2 for this comment

Anyone protecting steam in this particular case is retarded.
On consoles entire brands were made just on reselling stuff, and devs are still making sp games and new consoles are being released every few years.
Gamers as a whole can only benefit from it, don't be retarded and shot yourself in the foot.

Have you not read the threads about this or are you just playing dumb? 80% of the posts are "Steam bad, go Epic" and "btfo Steamdrones".

>get called out for being stupid
>n-n-no u!
Did it hurt that much timmy?

>the downloading of Steam Client in Australia and the agreement to Steam’s terms and conditions established a direct relationship between Valve and the Australian customer.
Presumably yes. No direct relationship without spoofing your location, no way to be subjected to those laws.
But quid of what was already sold?
Of the steam wallets? Of the games that are still playable everywhere else but not in Europe?
Of the the games that can be played offline?
This would raise a lot of question and while I have no idea about the sales numbers in Europe, I doubt they would want to refund everything in the last 14 days prior to shutdown.
Since logically they would have to stop selling with prior notice, refund everything that falls under their refund policy because they are shutting down the service and those customers may actually not have been able to go over the grace period. And it would be illegal to sell something while intending to stop providing the service.
Unless they give permanent licence. But then since that would mean the appeal was rejected, those goods are now sellable as a used product. But how? and to whom?
And so on.
I am no specialist, but that seems like a legal nightmare and a major money and profit loss.

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU MAKING THIS ABOUT STEAM WHEN IT AFFECTS EPIC, GOG, ORIGIN AND THE FUCKING MICROSOFT STORE EQUALLY?

Nice

>Steam geoblocks EU
Not only do they lose at least one third of their revenue, but they also get fined several hundred million of not a couple of billion. Sounds like a good movie for a company that's worth single digit billions.

Are you not familiar with the concept of exemple? Here, I'll give you a hand: you can replace the steam word by "any digital video games distribution platform" in all of these posts.

if not*

>it is possible to unlawfully copy video games
Really activating my almonds here.

>Not only do they lose at least one third of their revenue

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>Only retards buy games with DLC
That's literally 99% of games.

Are you the same fucking retard who defended lootboxes because "I don't buy games with them, God just stop buying games with them in and suddenly the hundreds of thousands of kids will stop too!"

Holy shit you are aren't you? You're the fucking God complex retard who thinks your agency affects everybody else.

You guys are really obese lol.

Are you a fucking autist or what?

>Aren't they justifying not being able to resell your steam library games by saying you're not actually buying a game but just a subscription?

Yes, and the French court ruled that this is nonsense, because you're dealing with a product made available for indeterminate period of time, which - according to Steam's own wording in the storefront interface - you **bought** or **purchased** through a one-time lump-sum transaction.

The terms and conditions can state whatever they want. If they don't reflect reality, they will be ignored.

>legally copy it
>i dunno how it got there your honor
>legally sell the main game because i can

They are not only legalising pirating, they're letting you sell it too.

how would that even work?

>That's literally 99% of games.
You're not posting in the right reality.

>what's going to stop game distributors to just make the game rented for a period of time instead of bought

The fact that under EU legislation this would make them legally obliged to ensure the product remains in working order, or they can be sued for breach of contract.

does it hurt being stupid though?

lol

>Buy game on steam
Sweet.
>Play it, finish the story
Resell time
>Steam fixes the price and takes a massive cut of the value, 30% for Gaben, 69% for devs
>End up with $1 back
>The whole thing takes 10 minutes thanks to having to tick dumb boxes, assuming $15 an hour minimum wage ($2 every 10 minutes) I've essentially received less than a burger flipper to resell my game
See Goyim? You can resell your games no problem!

Ok, scratch that, why are you protecting these brands?
Argument still stands.

>Steam Offline Mode
>unlawfully copy
That's a set of really tiny almonds you got there, bro.

so I can sell my game 20€ and only get 4€? nice

You tell us timmy

Buy with chinese dollars, sell for american dollars.

That's a no bueno.

I don't know that's why I'm asking you

Same way people resell physical games. Does it hurt damedev?

because Yea Forums is a steamdrone board

Who will you buy from?

>If Valve refuses to change its rules and post the court’s decision to Steam within a month, it will have to pay a fine of up to 3,000 Euros per day for up to six months.
>a Valve representative told Kotaku in an email. “The decision will have no effect on Steam while the case is on appeal.”
>Case took 4 years up till now

It's fucking nothing

Just sell your copy of Random Stupidass Indie Hipster Bulsshit 2 for 80€. Problem solved.

>Tim was the hero and Gaben was the villain?
>Just an example bro.
>Just pretending to be retarded.

I think I am, and I think you live in some magical fantasy land where online gaming wasn't popularized by the Xbox.

Yes actually.

If you're too stupid to know then ask your mom for help.

>, it will have to pay a fine of up to 3,000 Euros per day for up to six months.

This genuinely just sounds like another scheme for the EU to finger fuck silicone valley.

Nah because unlike you I'm not stupid :)

>Daily reminder that Steam is just going to pay a fine of under €1M instead and NOT implement anything.

Willfully ignoring the court and just writing off the fine means they'll be issued a new fine; higher this time, when they end up back in court again. There's no such thing as double jeopardy that applies there. They will simply be sued again, the court will refer back to the original case - make it a done deal, and because of recidivist behavior the penalty will be higher.
And higher.
And higher.

...

If you wanna talk about that other thread, maybe you should post in that other thread. Just sayin'.

Two things here. One, the judge is probably an 80 year old retard. Two, it will probably get appealed. You do not and have not ever "owned" software, the very idea is retarded

Could they convert the French accounts to American accounts? Could they just handle all aspects of the business in the US? All servers, all transactions? Like if I were to hop on a plane right now and log into my Steam account from Charles de Gaulle airport and start making purchases, would they not go through?

>be french fries
>Make Digital Resell
>People selling games, company not making money
>Company give up single player games, go for multiplayer / rogue like replayable games to avoid people selling, maybe even make DRM that bind account with games
T-truly is glorious benefit consumers idea. So c-cool...

topkek, no, you definitely aren't.

The same platforms that will continue to exist?
You really gonna completely ignore the argument I made originally? If so then I'm not replying in this thread anymore. Can't hold a conversation wih people with no reading comprehension.

>90,000 x 6
What is that, barely half a fucking million?

Unless they pressure for additional payments, theyll just do this.

Ultra.io an upcoming game store is going to have this feature, to resell digital games.

why is physical resell fine but digital ones not?

Bad news, you've been lied to.

Sorry user, which platform introduced DLC? Oh yeah, the Xbox. What is the biggest cancer across every platform in this day and age? DLC? Oh shit well that a fucking coincidence. Xbox selling Halo 2 maps for $3 a piece and somehow that has nothing to do with today's gaming climate.

There's no lie, silly stupid user

What platform will exist?
This kills the online service, theyre giving away games. How are you frenchies so dense.

But french fries aren't french.

they'll just make DLC that can only be redeemed once per account. like those playstation collection blurayss that in some cases games are only CDkey and not physical

>which platform introduced DLC?
Pc.

>implying I'm french
I don't know. PS and MS are both still existing so I guess the pc drms will persist also? And if they fall, why would that be so bad?
Remember in the old days when you bought a game and could do what you want with it? Was it so bad to have more freedom?

The efficiency.
It's easier to buy resell digitals because someone in Canada can resell their digital copies to Europe easily.
It will Min Max the company's profits.
While physical resell are less efficient to distribute among demands.
Not to mention the type of consumers.
People buy physical for collections too, so less likely to sell.
While digital is usually bought for play & easier access (not having to change disc whenever playing), so digital consumers are more likely to resell their games.

Good call, forgot about that.
This is too likely too happen.

>what's to stop Valve from simply withdrawing their presence from France? Couldn't they just have French customers purchase from their US store

They're legally required to allow any EU citizen to purchase from any online storefront they hold in EU territories, i.e. while they _can_ do things to make Steam harder to use for the French (e.g. removing payment methods specific to France national banks, etc.) they can't just geo-block without geo-blocking all of the EU.

Moreover, EU legislation is also set-up in such a way that if an EU consumer purchases anything online from a seller in the EU, the laws that apply to the transaction are the national laws of the member state where the purchaser resides. I.e. If a person from France continues to visit the EU Steam storefront and buys something there, the French laws will continue to apply and Valve will continue to be required to allow resale of that purchase.

expansions you had to buy seperate and physical are not DLC

the idea of selling small pieces of digital content for money was ludicrous in 2005, yet microsoft did it

Ms actually prevented game trading this generation...

So how come steam is getting singled out when this is a decision that affects all stores operating in the EU?

It's embarrassing how many steamdrones are here with the "haha steam wins, they just pay the fine". Steam defenders are arguing despite having no understanding of law and that you can't ignore the laws of a sovereign nation without getting the law brought down on you.
These are the kind of people who would tell you hyperinflation could be solved of you printed more money.

>its fine because there are less physical sale
so literally no reason?

>they can't just geo-block without geo-blocking all of the EU.

IIRC they do have geo-blocking, but they get fined astronomically huge amounts for it. I think they got fined like 10% of global revenue or some shit.

this affects literally all forms of digital content, if this goes through, streaming is about to replace everything.

>haha steam wins, they just pay the fine"

No one says that. Most they're saying theyll just drop out of france, create a subscription fee, or pay the fine.

Steam was the one litigation was brought against.

Yes you are absolutely right.
End of conversation.

Being the first != popularize
Popularizing something with 15 consoles sold, all of them in the USA, would have been pretty hard though.

Fucking christ do Italians need more ways to money launder

Makes senses. You could resell your game for 10% of the value you bought it for. The hard part is for Steam keys though. I'm guessing you'd have to go through the Steam keys sellers for that.

God i hate the 4th reich.

If that helps you sleep at night.

While the value of the goods at hand here is purely virtual. The "money" inside the system isn't, in one way or another.
It comes either from steam allowing you to add steameurodollars to you wallet (I don't know what the exchange rate is on the top of my head, or if there is one) or Valve giving you steambucks when you refund a game, and in that last case the money also comes from you.
So while the price for virtual goods may fluctuate wildly, the money has to come from somewhere (i.e you) and Valve is at no risk of losing money.
However I wonder if refund fraud can exist, e.g. You buy from a key shop (obviously at a lower price) and refund the game that key grants access to. Your refund request gets accepted and you get the full price.
Valve probably covered that already but I don't know how their system works. Maybe they'll refund the steambucks to the person who made the purchase.

Steam should start their own bitcoins if this goes through.

Ignoring all I said again. Ok nigger, see, that's why you will be fucked over by corporations till you die of semen poisoning. You can't think for yourself. Goodbye and have not a nice day.

I ignored it because all you have left is sony. Nintendo even has meassures to prevent resales.

Youre pretty much grasping at straws here.

>No one says that
>except when I point out that people say that
Good one.
>drop out of France
Shows them to be stupid, since this is against EU law and would see Valve getting hit with fines equal to 10% of their global revenue for it
>subscription fee
Again, shows anyone thinking this to be stupid, since it would kill steam since a subscription service that incorporates access to all steam games would be astronomical in cost.
>pay the fine
See my first post. You can't ignore the ruling of a country.

Why is this so important? We're all gonna be living in caves with no electricity 10 years from now.

I wouldn't. I would sell about 500 games and clean up my shitheap of a library

They might offer it as an alternative so long as one provides proof of being a resident in a country that offers the service.
They largely do from their point of view but still have international reach. Can't do both without being subjected to the local legislation. Which is why the refund policy applies worldwide.
Same as above. Can't offer the service to someone in a country that they don't provide the service in .
But then this is all hypothetical.
The real point is selling accounts, would this allow for reselling of games, and how much it would cost Steam.
Currently they stand to be fine at maximum 540,000 euros for non compliance. If the appeal is rejected then things will get interesting.

You still need to be online the first time you play it to verify the product.

Im genuinely puzzled how you think steam will just bend over and let French niggers download and refund ot resell their games. Once the costs get too high it wont fucking matter what they do.

And the subscription fee would be France only.

That would get steam railed for violating the digital single market.

>Currently they stand to be fine at maximum 540,000 euros for non compliance
How do they even enforce the fine?
Are they going to hold eu steam workers hostage?

What is drm

To resell the game legally, you'll have to sell it to only one buyer, because you only bought one copy of the game. To check this, reselling will only be allowed through a third party platform, like Steam.

Copying the game and selling it to a lot of other people on your own would not be different to selling illegal copies.

A good argument that you could use is 'but I can keep my offline copy after having sold the game'. Which would be no different that piracy. Which you could do anyway a lot more easily.

>digital single market.
So then they basically pull out of europe entirely then huh? Christ this is just a roundabout tariff.

Yep, I agree.

losing the French market is losing the Euro market, no euro game survives without French players. German niche tastes aren't profitable for the platform AAA, and the UK is a console country. Italy and spain aren't big enough. The rest is irelevant ,as it even account for 10% of the sales when you put all them together, from sueden to greece. All have basically no gaming culture nor knowledge.

>hostage
putting someone under arrest for violating the law is holding someone hostage now

So france basically stands alone. If france is unreasonable, they ruin it for the rest of europe and steam pulls out?

Shit better brexit soon before the winter steam sale.

>puzzled at how a country backed by the EU wouldn't shaft steam for breaking its laws and ignoring its rulings
I don't think you understand; companies have to adhere to the law of the country they conduct business in if they want to conduct business there. If they don't, they will not be aloud to conduct business there.
The European Union has a number of laws which protect consumers and its member states, so Valve doing something that singles out France for a subscription, removal of service or otherwise would be illegal and get it in big trouble.
Valve will bend over for the French since:
1. The law (if the appeal fails) will say they have to
2. They would risk not being able to operate in the EU, a market the size of North America

>make up a law
>hold someone in your foreign court and demand money
>no see were just enforcing our laws, its not hostage negotiation

Cmon lol.

Why risk having to pay more because the fine was not paid? In the grand scheme of things that's no a lot for Valve.

Why Steam alone ? what about PS or XBOX digital format ?

>They would risk not being able to operate in the EU, a market the size of North America

If the eu wants to essentially enforce tariffs and cause steam to lose money. It wont matter how big your market is. Good luck with the zombie shit.

Pulling out of Europe would be insane.

You know valve stuffs it's money in luxembourg for tax reasons right?

>do business in a country
>get told to do it in accordance with the law

They could ban them from operating in their country, for example. Easily done by blocking Steam IP adresses, like the french government is already doing for thepiratebay and some porn sites. Of course there's always VPN, but at this point I think people will rather turn to piracy.

They will have to keep paying. Eu doesnt give a shit, they make up fines as they go.

>Gabe, do we make a bit less money in Europe, or make no money in Europe?

This is called a precedent. All other digital services will have to do the same shit.

>do we bleed money in Europe
>or do we just focus on china and america?

this is too complex of an issue to discuss on this shitstain of a site tbqh familia

They get a cut of the resell, just like Valve does with Steam Market items

Moron, nobody would drop out of the EU market.
France, Germany and the UK game industries are worth $16 billion alone.
It would take a lot of "focusing" to make up a $16 billion shortfall.

>Huh?

>gabe give our frenchies free games or pay a fine
>ill just do neither and leave your market
>y-you can't do that, youll lose all the money you're not making in sales that will be refunded!
>*gabe rolls away*

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Just make the resale able at the time of purchase with premium fee of course so that would hinder buyer from opt in that option.

Yeah, it's obvious a lot of the time European courts are more concerned with looking like they are standing up for peoples right than with making sure things actually operate well
Who cares if it ruins everything it makes us look good and our american obsessed populace get to feel smugly superior that's not to say the american attitude of letting corps get away with litterly fucking anything is any better though

of all the places I wouldn't expect the french to block porn sites

Fuck you. Game as a service is a disgrace. When you buy a game full price, you should be able to play it as long as you want. This goes in the good direction compared to what the industry endlessly pushes.

It's amazing that so many of you retards think that you're entitled to make money off of someone else's work.

CP and loli, mostly.
But some in the government are currently pushing for the same retarded identification system that the brits fucked up these last years. Because they finally realized that children are smart enough to push the 'I am 18' button, I guess.

Convert your game into a code that you can sell to friends or online strangers, and NOT implement a marketplace for used digital games in Steam itself. That;s how they're likely to implement it.
>sell a good
>call it a service
And the French government is rightfully BTFOing this nonsensical approach to restricting consumer rights. Because, when you buy a game, you buy the game. Obviously you don't buy the Intellectual Property itself, but then again, neither are you doing that when you go to Ikea to buy a chair named after some Swedish Death Metal band. But much in the same way that it's YOUR chair, it's YOUR copy of the game.

It should hurt devs, so there's no motivation to sell a misleading product. It's consumer protection.

How dumb are you? We think we're entitled to make money by selling something that we own after buying.

>But some in the government are currently pushing for the same retarded identification system that the brits fucked up these last years.

All we did was say "hey, mindgeek, make something" then we refused to use it because it's full of holes and stupid but it makes tory voting boomers happy that the government is "doing something" I guess.

Sell activations instead of install codes. This activation is good for 200 hours, 6months etc. Then it'll degrade just like physical copies, problem reverted to previous state.

Yeah, and the exact same think is currently happening on the other side of the Channel.

>europistanis will soon get permabanned from Steam and all Steam services
best timeline

Wow, thanks for fucking the client even more, dude.

>We think we're entitled
you do sound entitled.

>making stuff up for a le epic 4channel greentext
Hilarious, have an upvote and put me in the screencap.

That's stupid. That's like not allowing someone to accelerate over x km/h even though the car is capable of it.

>european union
>UNION

found your problem

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To be fair, we do spend our fucking money.

wait seriously?

uh 5 C

>NOOOOO MY GAMES
lolo

i fucked it up, accidentally didn't make a new thread

Well no, you can play the game normally for a given time. If you buy an activation with 3 months left on it and it's not enough, that's on you.
Otherwise just get a physical copy.

>steam will leave a market worth $16billion+ to own le frogs
This is really high-IQ.

>Yea Forums is against consumer rights if it involves valve
So it's official now. Yea Forums is just Valve shilling board.

But digital is the same price as physical. Why should you have less rights?

there you go

Oh god please no traders are already insufferable enough as it is.

>europeans
>buying games
All their money goes to feeding immigrants

Oh you're just taking the piss. That's really funny, please respond with another witty greentext and buzzword filled post.

its just account reselling

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Uhm what?
>you need to idle in the game for X hours before you can resell it?
What?

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>how are you going to sell your digital shit?
how do you sell CS or TF2 stuff ?
exactly, in the same way

Truth hurts, mon ami

You're adding limitations to it. That's backwards. We strive to improve things, not make them worse.

That's not true. We pay Turkey to keep a lot of them at bay, in conditions probably no better than the ones your immigrants discover when they're arrested indefinitely at the Mexico border.

The ruling specifically states that accounts cannot be sold. Only the games.

>DLC, microtransactions
FUCK YOU ANTI CONSUMER PIGS
>consumers should be able to resell their games in web based game stores
NOOOOO! THIS HURTS GABEN. HE WILL STARVE TO DEATH.

And what truth is that?
Give me an example of a company refusing to continue doing business in a market worth billions of dollars following a court ruling and you win.
Oh wait, you can't do that because nobody ever has done it.
Poor Gabe.

Do you throw baguettes at people when you are mad?

Thanks ESL

This will hurt not only Gaben, but also Ubisoft, Epic Store, and every digital seller. Which only makes it better.

>The EU does not allow geoblocking
I want Youtube's head on a fucking platter then, EU.

>no argument
:'(
You'll be alright Gabe, at least it will take a while before you starve.

All the retards thinking about how this is going to effect only Steam and not every non-subscription based digital platform

You only hate it because it does not support your views/beliefs.

Got an example of a better system?

Just give the frogs what they want, they're not gonna abuse it like chinks would

Keep pushing this digital resell bullshit and soon everything will have a small subscription to play or only be available in streaming or stuff like origin access.

Whatever you say, Abdulah

The only way this doesn't kill the industry is if its limited to only reselling keys bought directly from steam, otherwise third world key sellers are going to make games unprofitable with their prices.

Welcome to the new era of everything getting region locked and a faster move to streaming games instead

>assblasted amerifat
In which oriface do you prefer your corporate boots?
You stay mad and I'll enjoy reselling my digital games. Hope you like your twice a year 5% off sales on 5 year old indie titles.

>Consumer group thinks its being pro consumer
>Doesn't understand that reselling digital games will let key resellers do it
>Doesn't understand that stolen credit cards and sub 10 dollar keys are a thing
>Doesn't understand the damage that will cause to the industry if it became standard
>Doesn't get that this will basically make every game be an online service so they can avoid resells
>Is ignorant to the fact this will push streaming and subscriptions hard
This is, unironically, going to kill video games.

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it was already a thing before, I made like 3 grand just flipping unusuals when I got bored of them

this will hurt smaller stores more

>This is, unironically, going to kill video games.
Isn't this what we wanted?
Drive the normies out of the industry?
To kill the vidya industry so they can reform?
Guess i'm supporting the frog people now

You can track keys you retard. Any key bought with a stolen card gets deactivated. Please kill yourself.

>tfw sales are going to become a thing of the past
>no more cheap vidya

Fuck europoor shitskins shitting up everything as usual because they are seetheing over America's companies success.
Gabe should range ban all of those communists

>Calls others a retard while not understanding how key resellers work
Its not just stolen credit cards, its the lower prices in dog shit countries. Buy from shitskin countries, resell for profit in the land of the free home of the brave.

>Pro consumer group doing something incredibly anti consumer
Going to go out on a limb and say this group is old boomers who don't understand how the industry works.

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Are every stores that sell digital goods affected?
Does it also mean that I will finally be able to get rid of my copy of Bad Rats?

Yes, welcome to the EU

In which orifice do you prefer your muslim dick? lol go pray to mecca now

And guess what you retarded nigger! They can lock keys to regions! Holy shit, how unheard of! Please, truly and sincerely kill yourself you piece of worthless trash.

>>Are every stores that sell digital goods affected?
If the ruling stands and applies across Europe and thereafter the rest of the world the same way the refund policy was extended to the entire world after Australia
>Does it also mean that I will finally be able to get rid of my copy of Bad Rats?
No. Noone wants that.

Ahahahahahahahahaha
Imagine going full /pol/ when you lose an argument
Back you go my good friend. This is a video games board.

>This level of corperate cock sucking
user how much investment do you have in Valve?

Adjust TOS, allow selling of accounts. Done.

why the fuck did you buy bad rats

Imagine being this hurt by banter
Did I struck a nerve there, Mustafa?

Learn to read you illiterate nigger.

>And guess what you retarded nigger! They can lock keys to regions!
No, they can't. The ruling isn't by country, keys cannot be sold by region. If someone buys a game and then moves to another country (Or uses a vpn as the case will be) steam are still required to let that person (Key reselling russian faggot) sell their game. Keep calling people a retard though.

Imagine being hurt by facts
What a snowflake.

>tfw valve is gonna die
>tfw physical media is coming back
steamniggers btfo

How will I know if a product has region restrictions?

Any region restriction on a product will be clearly noted on the product's Steam Store page as shown below. Most products purchased for yourself on Steam do not have region restrictions.

>No. Noone wants that.
Even for free?

There used to be an era where people gifted Bad Rat to everyone and anyone just to troll people and leave a stain on their steam library.
I'm one of the unfortunate people who got the game thanks to someone posting a gift code here on Yea Forums.
To the one who did that: Fuck you, I'm still mad.

couldn't you just go to steam support and request the game to be removed from your account

>physical media is coming back
user, don't be retarded. Streaming and online services are going to be pushed.

>projecting this hard
Calm down, muslim

Nothing of importance will happen, but for the sake of bullshitting:
>mark reselling games as such in library
>autists are trigged by "Second-hand" marks in their library
>buy their own copy later anyway

>implement this without hurting devs
Where would be the fun in that

Lmao pc gaming is fucked.
Just backup and pirate whatever you can before everything turns into subscription based.

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>they also get fined several hundred million
They don't have to pay the fine if they just leave the UE.

Valve will probably have the EU region blocked by default now and devs would have to opt in to sell to them.

digital games are also on console

Instead of selling games, Steam now sells subscriptions that allow you to play a game for a thousand years.
Done.

This.
This law is so fucking retarded it's that easy to get around.

>Realistically, how would you implement this without hurting devs?
You can't because used game sales are worse than piracy. With piracy you just get an illegitimate copy of a game you may not have been able or willing to afford otherwise.... BUT with used games you get a legitimate release of the game in the hands of a customer willing to pay and actually doing so , yet without the dev seeing even a single penny.

Isn't that funny? When you think about legal used game sales have always been more devastating than free piracy. The only thing worse is scum selling pirated versions, which used to be a thing before fast internet.

Fuck the devs

They want to kill game stores with digital convenience, fine. But now they have to get ready for digital resales. Suck it up.

They still have physical copy with the game data on it. PC version only have the game key which is the same as digital. Try returning it to the retail store and they won't take it even if you pay them.

>just leave the UE
Just like """Great""" """Britain""" amirite?

They cannot realistically provide service for a thousand years.
This, from the point of view of anyone alive today, amounts to owning an unlimited license.
Which folds back into the current situation.
Meaning the ruling still applies.

Give devs a cut, just like in the Steam Market items.
Adjust percentages to make sure that nobody wins or loses too much in the whole deal compared to what we have now.

>he doesn't get his games from the empty void

10 years subscription that resets to 10 years everytime a new game is brought. Done.

Can't force people to use your service. That's anti consumer practices.

>Realistically, how would you implement this without hurting devs?
Devs and publishers would go kicking and screaming no matter what you do. Big publishers have been wanting to kill off second hand game sales on console for years, that's just another reason they are finding ways to make money from after the game is purchased like DLC, microtrasactions etc. No idea if they are still doing it but I remember for awhile when EA was doing the "battle pass" thing with Battlefield where you had to register with a code each game came with to play online or buy one. This was done specifically to get money out of people buying the game secondhand on consoles.

This is a terrible decision and will only push GaaS model further.

and thats a good thing

I wouldn't mind a refund of all my games on my account if steam ever decide to fuck off from my country and since most of multiplayer games nowadays are shit I would just turn to GOG.

Also I really need to replace my PC

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>for years
They have been wanting to do it since day one.

My dad used to buy me pirated games 15-20 years ago, but that was before internet and torrents were common things where I live.

That's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you're talking about.

Nope. Selling DRM free games will actually become illegal in France as the courts said you have to be able to verify that a game is a legitimate registered copy.

OH NOOOO MR.GOLDBERG WONT MAKE GAY PARADE SIMULATOR 4 NOW BECAUSE I CAN RESELL IT

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Johnson will hand over Northern Ireland by October 31st to carey out his no-deal Brexit.

>double jeopardy
>refer back to the original case - make it a done deal
These are both quirks of the american legal system, but european law is roman law, not case law. Issuing a fine higher than maximum requires the parliament to pass another law. They can do it, but it will take a really long time (because they just dealt with this and there are other pressing matters, this wont make the daily agenda for the parliament for a very long while), and then it will not be a done deal in court again. A new suit will have to go through all the motions the previous one had to go through (since this is one of the defendant's given rights) and it will only go faster in the sense that the suing party will already have the evidence that had accumulated up to the previous ruling, but not that it changes the dynamic of what has to happen in court.

Steam can pay the 1M€ now, not worry about this for the next ~5 years or so, pass some insignificant band aid measure that will help it argue its next case in court by muddling the waters (since lawmakers, judges and lawyers are laymen in technology, economy and market jewry in general) and this will all in all be largely inconsequential for vidya unless the next time around the parliament doesn't really increase the fine to a significant number or come up with a decent legal framework for dealing with online purchases rather than just a token effort.

As it stands, Steam (or any other store big enough that 1M isn't a big number) can really just pay fines as a cost of doing business and continue as if nothing happened, much like so many other companies already do.

>You can't ignore the ruling of a country.
You can, as long as the repeated punishment (in this case, a fine) does not put you out of business. If the punishment was a complete ban of the service in France, then they couldn't ignore it, but nothing stops them from doing business after breaking the law and paying the fine as it stands.

Why should you be able to resell digital games but not music and movies?

Because video games are not art.

You can resell art though

Based actual pirates

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There is not just a fine, they also owe 20k€ to the consumer rights association. If more people were to sued Valve, they would end up owing them money as well.

Yeah, that's what the law says and its the most optimistic scenario for the consumers, but that doesn't mean that's what will end up happening in court. See for example Ford's Powershift transmission lawsuit, only about 8% of viable people sued, and that's for a payout in actual items and services that can be worth thousands of euros, not virtual pixels worth 60 dollars. What I'm saying is even with all the costs combined, it might still be well within acceptable costs to pulling out of a large market as France is or alienating developers that bring home the bacon.

>France kickstarts the second videogame crash
based frogs
down with the monarch AAA devs

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Just make games marketable with 200% cut for Steam itself.
Sell game for 30 but you only receive 10

Unless theyre indie dev's. Developers are contracted. They already got paid dumb ass.

>This is, unironically, going to kill video games.
good
this industry is in dire need of a good ol nuke

>start buying games on humble bundle
>sell for profit
Ez money. Stay poor wagies

What a retarded thing to ask

that's a 66% cut, not 200%

Honestly, I just want the industry to crash.
I want to get rid of my steam account, I want to get rid of backlogs, of microtransactions, of fucking degenerates everywhere.