How do you feel about the fact 2019 will be the final year we will have good Indie games and Single Player AAA games...

Licenses are bullshit says France.
Steamtards are defending Valve for free.

Why are the alarmists shitposting so much about this?
You niggers LITERALLY said the exact same shit about refunds.
LITERALLY

There are, just mostly not on consoles and very rarely AAA. We will never get back the B game gold era we had with the PS 2 though.

>Valve
This ruling impacts digital distribution in general.

They're part of the Valve Internet Defense Force.
Let them pretend it's the end of gaming.
No industry in history died due to people reselling stuff.

yeah but i only mention Valve because that is how shitposting works, Fucking newfag redditor

Licenses can be resold says frenchy judges.

The future of digital goods will likely shift from licenses to stavia like streaming services if Valve loses.

every post you make is shit, you ESL trash ape.

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I know, but other dustribution companies don't have fanboys.

Die, please.

I'm inclined to believe that they're indie shills, these same retarded shills literally made the same arguments when the EU forced Valve (and every other digital distributor on PC) to implement a refund system.
>T-THIS'LL KILL INDIE DEVS, H-HONEST, I-IT'S GOING TO MAKE DEVS AND PUBLISHERS GO FULL STREAMING, I-IT'S GOING TO KILL PC GAMING
It's so fucking annoying because they're so obviously transparent.

Meanwhile, there are still tons of short games being produced.

I like how the EU is getting rid of loot boxes, which is great, but at the same time shit like this is retarded. How the fuck would this even work?

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Like you trade objects.

good time to find a new hobby. could end up being great for me.

>Steamtards are defending Valve for free.

Just because people are saying that it won't pass happen doesn't mean they're defending Valve. I know that Trump will win in 2020 doesn't mean I'm a Trump supporter.

How exactly do you resale digital games on your steam account. Would Valve have to allow french users a special market to resale their games?

The thing is that the customers will have no way to resell digital games through steam without using steams service. It's not like physical goods where you can sell the game on your own to a friend or Craigslist or GameStop, you must use steam. Because of that steam could very easily just apply a 99.9% surcharge for reselling games as a service fee. So go ahead and sell the game you bought for $10 and you get .01 cent while steam gets $9.99. With sales tax applied you'd end up paying more to resell the game than you could buy a new copy for. I don't think Valve would do that as it would be horrible PR, but legally speaking nothing could stop them.

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>"Sure, you can re-sell your game"
>Note: that sale includes the license to access the software only. It does not include technical support, patches, content updates, DLC, pre-order bonuses, and you may not download the game from Steam's servers or participate in other other Steam services such as multiplayer or discussion forums for said game.

Have fun.

>Keys are tied to your account
>Can only sell games for less than you paid (something that Valve obviously tracks since there's an entire page dedicated to all of your purchases)
>Must be sold within a certain percentage threshold
>Can only be resold a certain number of times
Boom, done, literally just make it function like the refund system, but you can trade between players, that's it.

Feels so good to be a pirate

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>Because of that steam could very easily just apply a 99.9% surcharge for reselling games as a service fee
Illegal in the EU.

If steam gave at least some of those cards that you can sell for weirdos as a cash back for games that you bought on steam and don't want in your catalogue anymore I would sell at least half of the shit I have

Stadia still sells licenses for games you mongoloid.

This just means that the only indie devs left will be the ones who do it for the enjoyment. And they often make the best games

Like I give a damn
Corporations need to know their fucking place

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He's an idiot, just ignore him.

That or there will be a resurgence of freeware games.

How is it illegal? Any service can charge a surcharge for use of the service. Find a way to resell a steam game without involving steam and sure they couldn't apply a service fee to that. But, use the service? They can charge whatever service fee they like.

You idiots actually think you're going to be buying and selling games on Steam as easy as you buy and sell trading cards? You're fucking insane.

I wouldn't mind that either

Lmao what a socialist shithole
Gotta pay taxes to bring mores rapefugees

Ahh yes, because buying and refunding games on Steam is super difficult and arduous.
Fucking mongoloid.

Just bas the EU, fucking socialists don't deserve games. They can spend their freetime worshipping Lenin or working more for the EU or something.

did you faggots hate pre-owned games too

it's always a good idea to find a hobby
you sell people your log in information and they obtain the entire list of games
sued af
they could take say 30% of your resold game
dumbass

Nah as someone who wishes to see Brussels become nuclear ash I feel like this is the best thing they have done
If it has come to the point that the government has to tell you to drop the bullshit then you as as company has fucked up greatly

you just called someone else a mongoloid when you somehow managed to miss the point of the entire thread and assumed he was talking about new games?

>Have the ability to sell more things
>Socialists
Why is it so common for people to believe Anti-corporations = socialist and pro-corporations = capitalist, even when anti-corporation things would make a more free market and pro-corporation thing would make a more central market?

yes, its practically piracy and should be outlawed

Even if this passes and you eventually are able to resell your digital games, you still won't be able to sell those shitty indie games you were suckered into buying.

>sued af
Not even. The license to the game only grants you the legal right to access it. None of the things that guy listes is included in the license. And these assholes in France are only talking about the bare license.

I'm no stranger to sarcasm

The point is that the process would be almost identical to the refund process you idiot, outside of time limits.
Because they're retarded.

>yes, its practically piracy
You think a publisher or author should make money of any transaction involving a copy of their books?

The point is you're an idiot for thinking Steam would streamline the process of them losing a shit-ton of money for your benefit.

There a few things to take into account when comparing physical objects to digital.
The first is that physical goods can degrade/break if not taken care of, digital goods won't short of the company who is providing the service crashes and burns. There's fundamentally no difference between a used digital licences and a new one, so why pay more for the new one. The more important part is that physical goods are a fucking hassle to sell. You could go to a game store and get some loose change back, but nowadays you'd be more often just be trying to use craiglist and waiting to see if anybody bites or if you get lowballed the fuck out of. Then if you try to buy games you could get a broken copy or if you can even find the damn game you want. Meanwhile the law is pushing them to make a easy to access market that's comparatively hassle free.

readalso yes they should, people should be paid for their work

don't be autistic user

Yea, just like Steam didn't at all streamline the process for refunds, huh?
Because they definitely don't lose any money on those, huh?

Technically, not even that. The way the account works is written into the law, Valve can restrict you from selling your accounts while simply removing the resale clause, having it still be impossible to actually resell games already on your account.
Though It'd make it completely fine to sell keys for games that you haven't used yet.

Well, if they have a problem with digital reselling, make only physical copies.

>Meanwhile the law is pushing them to make a easy to access market that's comparatively hassle free.
And...that's supposed to be a bad thing?

>What is "All dematerialized goods can be resold"
Which means you can now legally resell all your itunes music while you're in in france.

Dumb fucking brainlets
“HURR HOW DOES DIS WERK??”
You convert the game into an item in your inventory (can already be done) and the. Sell it on steams marketplace (already exists)

Yes, rights for the consumer are always bad.

*European Union

ITT: Steam fanboys Reeeeeee about France becoming a more free market.

You assholes were saying that refunds would destroy indie devs 4 years ago. What makes this any different?

Ahh right, I forgot, I'm sorry master, I'll be a good American and make sure to bend over for my corporate daddies.

Valve and all the other video companies philosophies in a nutshell. If you're siding with Valve on this, just go ahead and hand in your man-card promptly.

And the problem with that is?

>Dude we need the government to intervene in private transactions because i don't agree on what i agreed when i purchased my games

I bet you'll agree when the state tells you're going to share your home with ahmed and his 15 children for the same reason above

>they could take say 30% of your resold game
I'd say 50% to Steam, 25% to the Developer, and 25% to the reseller should be fair.
(You can only sell games at full price, or less if your 25% would be more than the amount you paid on purchase.)

>They could take say 30% of your resold game

Show me the law that provides a cap on service fees. They could charge whatever they like as long as it isn't 100% and you can still technically sell it for money.

>people should be paid for their work
lmao this guy thinks legal employees still have any rights

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It's not, but because it simplifies things a lot, people are more likely to resell than they would with physical goods. I just wouldn't be surprised if companies start engaging major douchebaggery like absurd surcharges or start engaging even more in games a service models. Lord knows that they barely even needed and excuse right now.

How is it any different?

The court ruling says the law doesn't make a difference between physical and digital goods.

Is going to push digital companies into subscription only models

I feel sorry for EU companies that have no way to compete with the rest of the world due to nanny overbearing laws.

If there's a demand, someone will satiate it.

anyone who tries to sell you a second hand digital game is literally a scammer. what the fuck is wrong with France
I'd rather you pirate my game.

Yeah, it's a real shame that they can't just fuck over consumers to increase those profit margins

A government forcing companies into more cancerous practices is not demand.

Well to be fair things on our side of the pond aren't good either
we have the EPA, Cancel culture and Huge Corps who will use their huge money to fuck over any small business
You can't win in the West

>I'd rather you pirate my game.
>my game
is right, this thread is full of indie shills.

Just pull Steam out of France, is anyone even going to miss French in online games?

That damn EPA, preventing me from dumping my industrial waste into the local water supply

But things like licenses and ips wouldn’t exist without government intervention.
This is like saying that the government allows you to make parodies parodies is socialist policy, and not the existing laws that centralize ideas to certain groups.

Did you read the article? They're filling for an appeal, which means they will fight tooth and nail to go above the law.

You're acting like no one will ever buy new single-player games.

The refund system is great but resale is just piracy but the person offering the file is even scummier.
I support piracy. but not fucking paid piracy. that's a scam.

Yeah someone has never heard of Flint before

>France says that this whole "you're just buying a license, you don't own anything" shit that companies have been doing for decades is actually bullshit and digital goods should be treated the same as physical goods
>There are people acting like this is a bad thing

I have lost all hope in humanity. Digital goods should ALWAYS have been treated the same as physical goods, they should always have been resalable and it should be illegal to permanently ban someone from accessing a product they fucking payed for.

Anyone on Valve's side here is a retard bootlicker and should be hated.

Digital reselling would mean the end of big sales and indie games in general.

>I support piracy. but not fucking paid piracy.
>reselling your own stuff is piracy now
The absolute state of Valvefags.

if they can be sold they can be stolen

>this one incompetent local government proves that regulations are bad!

Who cares? It's not like there's no shortage of indie games or games in general, that's not even counting emulation. I don't know why people bemoan the death of single player games when you dont need to play the latest AAA cannonfodder, there's hundreds of games you havent played yet.

>Other distribution companies
you mean EVERY OTHER distribution company? like, every other media distribution company, on the planet? this will wreck any kind of digital distribution. literally the only thing left will be streaming.

nihilists like you are too stupid for your own good. you are so happy to burn the world down, that you forget your own home is flammable, too

>literally the only thing left will be streaming.
And physical copies. They exist since always.

I pray they ban micro-transactions entirely
>but they'll just go back to horse armor tier dlc
Ban paid dlc as well, if they must. You either buy the whole game or none of it.

resell a digital game on steam? how the hell would that even work?

it's not yours to sell. it's data completely identical to one you could pirate for free.
the only purpose of buying a game is to support the devs. if it's not supporting the devs then you should have it for free. if you paid money to some random cunt you've been scammed.

...

So if they lose, can I finally sell off the 300+ steam games I bought on sale and will never actually play?

>Games as a Service

Why does this fucking term make me rage so damn hard.

If they fuck up on the local whos to say they wont fuck up on a federal one?

Your house is flammable too faggot

>digital games
>infinite supply
>zero value
>somehow resale is supposed to work

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>it's not yours to sell.
Why not?
>the only purpose of buying a game is to support the devs.
Yep, indie shills. I bet you think G2A only sells stolen Steam keys.

Because companies are not satisfied with their intermittent millions. They want the continuous millions. So everything they do is compromised in the hopes that they squeeze out an extra $5.

Only if people are willing to buy them. But odds are the market will be nothing but Bad Rats and other garbage no one wants anyway.

Brain washing

Holy shit this is worse than piracy, not only does the person get to play online, but a 3rd party gets money instead of the company. Imagine the corporate tears that would be shed if this became a worldwide policy.

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>but a 3rd party gets money instead of the company
They got their money with the first purchase, just like authors/publishers got their money with the first sale in the case of books or albums.

Nothing changes for the company though. The same amount of people are connecting to the servers at any given time per copy of the game.

>squeeze out an extra $5.
>Implying

They straight up want Timmy to dump his parent's credit card on their shitty games.

You're comparing refunds, a basic retail principle that gives brick and mortar stores and advantage over digital purchases, to buying and selling used license keys which no one has ever allowed.

Because games should be a good.

Americans believe funny things and are fast to jump to the conclusions. Japan had 2nd hand market that got so out of hand companies were desperate to combat it, but even with the advent of online gaming it's usually westerners who keep pushing cloud and GaaS bullshit. Combating 2nd hand market will be just used as an excuse, you corporate cock providers will go subscription-only and cloud-only out of sheer greed and overprotection of their property.

It's not like Steam can crash any harder these days, it's a shadow of it's former self, much like Valve.

>something didn't work out once
>so clearly we should completely give up forever
I don't really believe that actual shills are a thing on Yea Forums but damn you're making me wonder

digital goods are completely contingent on the retailer keeping the good online, for you to re-download. as someone who has been buying IOS games for years, I can tell you that this is a stupid hope. Even if you just look at Playstation games, there are two very famous examples of digital-only games that have been disappeared: Scott Pilgrim VS The World, and PT. if these games had ever had a physical release, we could still be playing them. The only way to play them, now, is to buy a PS3/4 with them already saved on the hard drive.

Now, consider situations like anime, where the rights holders vanish, and the license gets lost in a legal rabbit hole. Or consider film, which has physical masters that can be lost or damaged, leaving only the physical copies. Consider music, which lives and dies on licensing agreements between the band and their labels. stuff can get pulled from digital storefronts over the tiniest spats. Again, if you don't have a physical copy, or have already saved your digital copy on a hard drive, you are fucked.

I fucking hate pirates, but we may actually need these shitbags

It could work any way, but if I was in charge of Steam and I legally HAD to implement the ability to sell games I imagine it would work through the market and implement a whole bunch of loops like, “You cannot make more money off this game than the lowest it has ever sold for” and also “We take a 25% service fee and delete your associated cloud saves and other user data permanently”

Fuck the EPA
they dont manage to accomplish anything

>which no one has ever allowed.
2012. Oracle vs UsedSoft

Because you don't get to own anything if everything is a service.

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Fuck the EU and if you disagree you're a pleb

>it's another courts can't tell the difference between digital goods and physical goods
>it's a huge booster shot for stadia and games as a service
rip a rooni

satisfy it how? France just said it was illegal. maybe you want to spit in the eye of the EU, but do you think a company will?

based and redpilled

Stopped clocks are right twice a day.

you didn't make it. you don't have permission from the owners to sell it.
you're not entitled to any money unless you refund you greasy mexican jew.

You're high if you actually believe that. There will always be a market for non-GaaS games, and GaaS will always be a larger overhead to costs than the amount they lose from resells.

You should do some searches for Steam games, and see how many get physical releases.

>it's a huge booster shot for stadia
Google bribed the government to allow them to offer Internet and they got fucked.
>it's a huge booster shot for games as a service
They didn't needed. Several corporations already had expressed interest in the system.

People still will want single-player games.

>you didn't make it.
I bought the copy.
>you don't have permission from the owners to sell it.
I am the owner of my copy.
>you're not entitled to any money
>i'm not entitled to get any money for selling the stuff I own
Peak communism.

EU
State corporations build state hospitals and provide state insurance

US
Private corporations build private hospitals and provide private insurance

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And now they will have more if they can't tolerate the idea of people reselling digital copies.

>Private corporations build private hospitals and provide private insurance
While receiving tax breaks, money and preferential treatment from the federal, state and local governments. wow

That's what I've been telling these parrots, but nobody would fucking listen. GaaS and subscriptions will arrive either way, ownership of your digital games has nothing to do with those.

>but nobody would fucking listen
They don't want to listen.
They're shills of shitty and mediocre indie devs.

>I am the owner of my copy.
that's meaningless your copy is just data. it is infinite. it can be duplicated endlessly.
it's not a physical thing you purchased. you don't deserve any money for it.

My right to download the game can be traded.
>you don't deserve any money for it.
Cope.

Now watch them try to paint you guys as a "valvetard" or something.

It's almost like someone resells her gim membership

>How does it feel that gaming is saved?

Based France.
It's my god given right to sell or trade anything in my possession.

What? They said that re-selling games won't kill new single-player games because people will demand for them.

>good
>indie game

Choose one.

And remember how being able to refund Steam games was going to kill gaming, or where you not born then?

Typical under-age Yea Forums poster that knows nothing about the law. This will go through for one simple reason, the EU needs money and being able to fine companies is a source of revenue. It's why things like GDPR and 14 day refund went through, it allows the EU to fine all the large technology companies.

>grave ramifications
There will be no ramifications, what will happen is that Valve will attempt to appeal it for a few years but ALL on-line distributors will have to offer an option to re-sell your games. They'll take a percentage meaning they've not only made money from selling you the game in the first place but also by taking a cut when someone who wasn't going to buy it at full price anyway.

How would you sell a digital game?
Would it disappear from your account after someone buying it?

Yes?

Sure. You're trading your license to access the content. In return for currency, goods or services.

Almost like you own it.

why would someone buy from you when they can get it for free with no difference. you just want to scam people and you know it.

Its literally the steam trading cards but with games instead.

But why would you when you could just buy a
"used" digital game. There's no difference.

the horror

>it must be in the physical shape of a CD for a software copy to have any value
lol

Why does anyone buy bread when you can just steal it?

>why would someone buy from you when they can get it for free with no difference.
Then what's your problem with people selling their copies then?

Everyone ignoring that the penalty for not enforcing this is a daily 3,000 euro stacking fine that caps after 6 months.
Valve isn't going to do shit.

Aren't licenses owned by the company or store that sells your games?

Because a license expires and Steam can't sell the game anymore. But you can still buy a used copy from someone who already bought it.

You know, in order to have a resell, someone has to buy the game first. And if you think all of humanity will wait their turn to play the only copy ever sold, you're braindead.

I couldn't possibly answer that question.

But I would ask you why is it that when you purchase your license, you own neither the game nor the license?

yeah, but seeing how Valve appeals it looks like they don't even want to lose that little money

frankly if all games ended right now and there will never be a new one, I still don't think I could get through my backlog. I don't care if it all ends at this point

It's just to make time.

Guess the games never really were your belonings to begin with, meanwhile I can sell every single game in my physical collection :^)

why? it doesn't support the devs.
I can just pirate it.
who cares about lining your pockets you greedy little poo in the loo.

so the bakers can produce more bread.

>games would have to be good again so people want to keep them
damn that would suck

No, you don't get it, 741 millions of persons will conspire to buy just one copy and resell it between them, so they can destroy the corporation.

>still goes to Yea Forums anyway
a phenomenon known as "rent free"

2000-2007 still is .

>physical collection
>he buys his games
lol
piratechads always win

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Literally shilling.

disable steam for the french , problem solved.

Guys we MUST protect the billionaires at Valve, EA, Epic, Ubisoft and Rockstar. Make sure we NEVER get given consumer rights ever again!

>How do you feel about the fact 2019 will be the final
Absolutely fucking great
Let the crash happen, this industry needs some purging.
Besides, there are more old good games available than one can play in a lifetime

*European Union

>meanwhile I can sell every single game in my physical collection
Doubtful

Imagine waiting on a line with 700Mi people ahead of you, and each person takes about 1 to 2 weeks to finish playing the game before passing it on.

Yeah, that what's Valvefags and indie shills think.

So does that mean I will be able to buy a bunch of cheap bundle games and resell them on Steam for more money than I originally paid for? Based frogs, I'd say.

That was already happening with Steam keys.
Salty indie devs complained, when no one forced them to offer Steam keys.

This is actually stupid. France is just going to lose out on any digital market. Selling digital games after you buy them will fuck over a ton of people or we will get forced preorder lockout content that you cant get if you buy used.

Sorry Tyrone, nobody's going to buy last year's FIFA from you.

Reminder that it was the European Union who ruled this back in 2012.

So?

that'll happen.
you'll have activists doing that to hurt games.
my hope is that even if this goes through steam is smart makes it undesirable.
>when yo buy a game second hand you're not entitled to updates you only get it in it's current state.
>you have to advertise that you're reselling the game yourself. steam doesn't help you. it's not their job to do your marketing and help people find it.
>before someone buys your second hand games several warnings are displayed explaining that the devs wont receive any money and you're much better off buying the proper game.
third world scammers BTFO.

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When something is broken, fixing it can sometimes cause more damage in the short term.

based gaben fighting for consumer rights

I stopped buying games a while ago because I couldn't see the point in paying full price for a "license" when I used to pay full price for a disc I had full control over and could lend or resell. When this goes into effect though I'm going to sell about 99% of my steam games.

Based France

>that'll happen.
>you'll have activists doing that to hurt games.
Never happened with retail copies.
Fuck off and dil8 with your fellow failed indie devs.

Can we repeal the dumb fucking trading card system?

No, Valve created it and keeps it for a reason.
Increases engagement in the platform.

ah yes, the consumer right to not own things you purchase

based

Physical game GOD here:
You fags got played for falling into the digital cancer

ok Apoo. sorry you can't scam people.

Imagine how salty the indie devs will be if Valve actually allow you to resell their games. They had some excuses to shit on G2A and other key resellers for selling cheap keys of their games because they're "shady" and reselling "stolen key"(totally not bundl keys heh).

these are good ideas I hope valve does this.

B-but Gabe's sperm is so tasty.
Also, physical copies can't give bragging rights.

You can't take away people's rights.

Not only that, but digital movies and software licenses as well. France has no idea what they're doing as usual.

Software licenses were already made legal to sell 7 fucking years ago.
And why does it matter if you can resell digital movies?

>Also, physical copies can't give bragging rights.
They do, and it's far better.

user, Oracle was killed by greedy consumers.
Thanks European Union.

But I want to be an attention whore in Steam.

Based

Want to sell you lameass game?
Just winrar a game folder and send in email to your buddy and then give him your licence code.
He will launch and use a code so you lose access to a game.
?
You want just give him a code so he can download it from Steam? No, why would steam will give him free server time for that?

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>You want just give him a code so he can download it from Steam? No, why would steam will give him free server time for that?
They already do it for keys sold elsewhere

>license costs 4 figures
>sell business
>can't sell the license
So you close and stick the oracle shit up the ass?

And Valve doesn't sees a single cent out of those sales.

Yet they still provide the server bandwidth

As a gesture of good will. Good will can run out.

an even bigger problem solved.

If it'd be this simple - just copy-paste a code so there will be so easy to steal games from your account.

Indeed.

They do it because it attracts people to Steam's ecosystem.
GOG.com makes the same offer, but since no one cares about GOG, no one actually uses them.

are you sure? for me this would apply to all types of game

>a gesture of good will

lol, it's so they can push ads to people, which is exactly the default behaviour of steam when you first install it, ads all over the place. They will do anything to attract people to the platform

>Oh, what a nice game you got here. Let me just check a license code, *SNAP* Yep...

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Me in the left.

If it's infinite and can be duplicated infinitely, then isn't it worthless?

this will be appealed

You're PS3 games?

No shit, that's literally what OP's pic says.

Are you retarded? Have you ever even used steam?

sorry I meant that the decision will be repelled in the appeal court (I'm not familiar with the law lingo in English)

>I like how the EU is getting rid of loot boxes
Spotted the statist. You reap what you sow.

This sounds like typical yurotardation. Valve isn't perfect, and deserves much scrutiny for many things, especially like lootboxes which do need to be banned. but something as retarded as this is irrational.

will it be cheaper to buy resold games then just buying them normally because they are just digital copies

...

This is why no big tech company comes out of your godforsaken continent, euros. I swear, I wonder if the bureaucrats running this shit show keep doing these kinds of things on purpose, because this level of incompetence can't be be so consistently horrible on accident.

>Corporations need to know their fucking place
>implying this law will hurt corporations
I always find funny how moba/f2p players denies their own cancerous nature,

>moba/f2p players
Nice strawman. 40%.

Explain to me, in less than 120 words, why a digital game must cost as much as a retail one while retaining none of the benefits.
>can't borrow
>can't play anywhere unless you bring the machine with you
>can't find a cheap used copy after a month
>can't sell to make more half the money back after a month
>stays at full price much longer
>can lose your game if do [thing] they don't like
This isn't about Steam, if anything it should extend to consoles too
>they have game pass
Oh great, more netflix rental cancer. The only positive is that modern games are so fucking shit they're not even worth owning so rental makes sense, but from their perspective it's just another form of control and scam.

only rich people in Europe are "old rich" and kikes.
I swear to God it's like they don't want you to employ people.

But it's not strawman, what kind of players would benifit from this law, if not moba/f2p players.

No, this simply explains why americans shill liberalism so hard but whenever they see
>government
>control
>corporations
Put together, they still think
>OH NO THE COMMIES
You're the reasons most games now cost $75 to $150 at day one with all the cut content and day one dlc. Plus, you enable microtransactions and full priced digital.
We've actually come to a point where we need socialist interventions to stop you because you're fucking out of control.

>The only positive is that modern games are so fucking shit they're not even worth owning so rental makes sense, but from their perspective it's just another form of control and scam.
So you still paying for shit games?

Keep thinking no one will demand new single player games and that 700 million person will conspire to harm a single developer.

>You're the reasons most games now cost $75 to $150 at day one with all the cut content and day one dlc. Plus, you enable microtransactions and full priced digital.
No, I'm not? I don't buy any games that cost that much or that have unfair microtransactions or day one DLC. You miss the point that if people in general are buying these products they should be able to, it's not on you to force people to act in a certain way, even if you don't agree with it. The moment you use the government to force people (and corporations, as well indie developers) to act a certain way you're a tyrant. If you want to be that then it's fine, but don't be surprised when people call you out on your shit and try to dodge your dumb rules whatever way they can.

sell it in the market
steam and the dev take a part of the profit.

ya all can hate steam all you want... but logically speaking... it's retarded to allow resale of digital goods.

They don't allow reselling of digital music for a reason. If you could resell digital music, the artists will never make money ever again after the first month of sale. There would be no reason to buy new copies when you can buy used old copies for cheaper. It's the exact same quality as brand new songs... but cheaper price. Big companies might be able to take the hit, but smaller artists won't be able to survive.

Same logic applies to video games. Digital goods don't depreciate over time unlike physical goods. They don't wear and tear like CDs do. So buying a "used" digital key is no fucking different than buying a "new" digital key. Just cheaper. Indie devs won't be able to survive. No gaming company would be able to profit after the first moth of sales. No reason to buy new keys anymore after the first month.

Hate Steam all you want, but the ruling can cripple a entire industry and make it not profitable at all. Not to mention it will open a whole new can of worms of dealing with key companies like G2A selling used keys.

If record and publishing companies don't take a part of the profit of resold physical games, music, movies and books, why they should do it with digital games?

>Keep thinking no one will demand new single player games
None would care about such demand

>talk to guy working in SF with some firm
>says they were pulling a branch from Germany
>ask why
>germans fight for working rights and won't do too much overtime
>tell him it's reasonable
>tells me people in the USA nearly start brawls over who gets the privy ledge to work overtime
And then people wonder why they bring mutts in, they basically need to force the hand of working people unwilling to bend over and accept turbo capitalism. With extreme competition, you have no choice, and that explains the sad state of american wagecucking.

Piracy of single player games and reselling of single player games whether for PC or consoles exists since the beginning of time.

Good products don't happen without people working hard. Even John Carmack himself agrees youtube.com/watch?v=wIvHkaV6Ri8

And numbers of single player games, good single player games decreasing, while f2p flourish.
Also, piracy is okay, since more intellegent people pirate the games and if the game is good they still can purchase them after.

>>germans fight for working rights and won't do too much overtime
>WHOOOOPS all Das Auto have "Made in China" stamp on it

>>can lose your game if do [thing] they don't like
Like what? Calling someone a nigger online? Just don't call someone a nigger on your account.

None of that matters, for the french is a matter of legal coherence, if digital copies deserve the same protection than physical ones (and thats why piracy is illegal) then they should behave the same way.

>And numbers of single player games, good single player games decreasing, while f2p flourish.
Yeah, because everyone can afford to make F2P. By the way, there's a reason people still make single-player games for consoles, because people still buy them. Doomposters are kinda special.

But that'll affect expansions since they get called DLC now too.

>Just don't call someone a nigger on your account.
Literal corporate shills here.

They could do what EFLC did.

>> people should get paid for their work
The market should decide that, not you, commie.

If the consumers would rather buy a second hand game than give money to the creator, then thats the market saying the creator doesnt deserve money.

> If record and publishing companies don't take a part of the profit of resold physical games, music, movies and books, why they should do it with digital games?

Physical copies don't last forever. They wear and tear and nobody want to buy broken shit. Also it was only popular in the era without digital distribution. There would be a higher demand and they would reprint more copies to sell to meet the demand.

But digital distribution changed all that. In today's era.... digital shit does not degrade over time. You can redownload what you own over and over and over. You won't have to rebuy a copy if you lose/break/stolen unlike physical copies.

*They could do what Rockstar did with EFLC.

>Yeah, because everyone can afford to make F2P.
>implying making F2P isn't cheaper than mking good single player games

>By the way, there's a reason people still make single-player games for consoles, because people still buy them.
user, have you ever visited the Yea Forums right before release of new WoW expansion?

>can lose your game if do [thing] they don't like
The french court ruling remove the part 9.C of the user agreement.

>while f2p flourish
Weak deflection.

>> Germans dont want to work

How times have changed, truly immigrants enrich every society.

>digital shit does not degrade over time

Attached: digital_data[1].png (740x282, 186K)

So basically we should just let them raise the price of games to $100, plus a kickstart for AAA games even if they are billion dollar publicly traded companies, on top of all the microtransactions?
I mentioned things people would probably pay for.
Sometimes the only way to stop a junkie is to get rid of the enablers. It's not like governments are wrong in thinking modern gamers are retarded anyway, they are right.
I can lose a physical game online access if I do that and that's it, but I wouldn't lose my whole fucking shelf.
If you do that on a digital account you risk your whole account. That is bullshit.

I don't get it. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
>buy game
>its a digital game
>France states that even though its not physical, you cannot be stopped from reselling it just like you would a physical game you bought
>Valve wants to fight it

I dunno what to think here. Is it bad that I think people who buy a game should have the right to resell it no matter if its physical or digital?

So instead of just letting the new technology kill all the obsolete companies that cant adapt to the change you would rather create a law to help the companies survive?

You are all that is wrong with capitalism.

>not insulting people makes you a corporate shill
And what exactly am I shilling here? Common courtesy?

>So basically we should just let them raise the price of games to $100, plus a kickstart for AAA games even if they are billion dollar publicly traded companies, on top of all the microtransactions?
>I mentioned things people would probably pay for.
>Sometimes the only way to stop a junkie is to get rid of the enablers. It's not like governments are wrong in thinking modern gamers are retarded anyway, they are right.
So instead of fixing the problem by not buying the game, you dellegating the rights to government, sure you aren't a communist.

>implying making F2P isn't cheaper than mking good single player games
You need to maintain the servers and a lot of other expenses.

>user, have you ever visited the Yea Forums right before release of new WoW expansion?
What's your point?

>Is it bad that I think people who buy a game should have the right to resell it no matter if its physical or digital?
According to indie shills, yes. They should get money with every transaction you make with every copy of their product.

go back to 9gag.

Fuck Valve and fuck indies
Now indies have to it for free lmao

Attached: pyrolaugh.png (404x673, 211K)

Can't wait for the absolute race to the bottom on resale prices for digital games. I hope this extends to microtransactions too. In this age of loot boxes, people will probably dump all their dupes for pennies on the dollar.
Expect digital prices to rise to compensate for ACTUAL lost sales. Buyfags will still think they're morally superior even though they're effectively pirating if the publisher or developer gets no cut of the resale transaction.

He isn't he is maintaning balance between small and big companies

outrage culture and always saying literally everything is always the end of the world. Also, actively destroying everything that exists for the sake of making everyone mad because that's all that matters, the dopamine people get by pissing each other off

Oh, well that's stupid, no, if I buy something, I should have the right to sell it for profit, since I bought it.

Stop thinking there's only one word and it's that fucking word
I can tell you to "go fucking kill yourself you fucking cunt", but I don't deserve to lose my game for it.
I don't know how it came to happen that there's only one way to cuss people and it's racially driven.

Not him, but come on, you cant be that retarded

>we have the right to steal your money if you stuff we don't like

Yeah, indie shills disagree.
>they're effectively pirating if the publisher or developer gets no cut of the resale transaction.

>You need to maintain the servers and a lot of other expenses.
Steam, Epic, EA gives you the servers.
>What's your point?
To explain it, I need your answer

That's per game.

elaborate, im not following

> So instead of just letting the new technology kill all the obsolete companies that cant adapt to the change you would rather create a law to help the companies survive?

Except the ones using new techonology are companies like Steam and everyone else still using CDs and DVDs are the ones clinging to old obsolete technology. You are the one creating a law trying to kill off new technology to help old obsolete companies survive.

The whole protection to consumer only works if the product degrades over time. It's a whole different story when the product can never degrade and you can always redownload it.

I don't understand why even bother buying a used copy when you can just pirate? The only reason you should ever buy a game is if you liked it enough that you want to support the developers, and buying secondhand doesn't do that.

>disagree
Lmfao how do you "disagree" with a court ruling? Valve is just straight up kikeing it out.

>Steam
So, that's why LawBreakers still is playable on PC?

>I don't understand why even bother buying a used copy when you can just pirate?
Why do you care?
>The only reason you should ever buy a game is if you liked it enough that you want to support the developers
Yeah, I'm sure Epic Games devs got raises with the sucess of Fortnite.

>legally resell all your itunes music
Nothing wrong with that mctoddler.

>So, that's why LawBreakers still is playable on PC?
That's why it was playable even when playernumbers dropped into 10

I pirate every game I can. I don't care whether publishers get a cut, it doesn't affect me either way if this law passes or not. I'm just equating the transaction to essentially digital piracy. Hell, it's even worse as it's an actual lost sale where as piracy is ambiguous on that.

I don't buy the game, but you do, and your friend too.
They need to stop you for your own good.
>dude don't waste money you're destroying everything
>NOOOOO LET ME BURN MONEY SO THEY CAN MAKE IT WORSE AND ALLOW ME TO BURN EVEN MORE MONEY
In this case, we totally need the government. Your desire to spend on a game affects games, they are being designed to force your hand, to make you waste money.
If they made "game for sane people" and "sort of the same game for fucking retards" I could accept it but your cancer infests my games too.

>I'm just equating the transaction to essentially digital piracy.
But it isn't. Cope. I will keep buying used books.

>>NOOOOO LET ME BURN MONEY SO THEY CAN MAKE IT WORSE AND ALLOW ME TO BURN EVEN MORE MONEY
Projecting much, consumerist?

>If they made "game for sane people" and "sort of the same game for fucking retards" I could accept it but your cancer infests my games too.
As I said before, it's funny to see how f2p players blames other for their influence

Indie dev here. I can just region block EU on steam.

steam is the best and there is nothing you can do about it

What? Its the other way around, this law will make digital distribution so cheap that physical media will just be reduced to a niche market. It has the potential of destroying the companies that clinge to the old tech.

Okay, Order of War: Challenge.

Who? There's nobody that does that on PC. If it kills console developers, that's awesome.

I'm making you cope.

Just pirate your books user. The author isn't getting your support either way so why throw away the money.
Also
>physical goods are the same as digital goods

I pay for the salt of shitty devs.

Nearly a 10 years, long time for RTS

think about the cause and effect if you can resell used games.

First when a game is release, people will buy new keys since there are no used copies yet.
After about a month or so.... used keys will flood the market. And that's pretty much the end of profits for that title. Game companies won't be able to make money off a game after the first month of sales because there would be no point in buying new copies ever again.

A used copy of a digital product is the EXACT same as a new copy. No degrading whatsoever. No limit on use or how many times you can download it. Same reason why nobody allows reselling of digital music. Or even movies. or ebooks. It's weird how the government will go after video games but doesn't say shit about the rest.

Physical copies is a whole different story. There will be wear and tear over time. Discs degrade with time. You can't just download it over and over. If it breaks or you lose it or it gets stolen, it's gone forever. That's why you can resell this easily and nobody will bat a eye. You can't reuse the exact same physical product forever.

They won't know about it because they aren't even aware of the transaction. Do you personally mail them a photo of you purchasing a used book so they can see how you're not giving them money?

It's literally legal digital piracy.

Hello zoomer, before 2010 people used to be able to sell and share their games, no matter if they were on PC or any console with anyone that wanted them, this didn't cause jack shit to the industry, now, kill yourself, thank you.

I dont see why you fags even care. Not like any of you,or atleasta good portion of you,even own games. You'll go back to pirating them like you always do.
Tl:dr quit concernfagging.

>So basically we should just let them raise the price of games to $100, plus a kickstart for AAA games even if they are billion dollar publicly traded companies, on top of all the microtransactions?
Just don't buy those games you fucking retard. Are you braindead?

>Sometimes the only way to stop a junkie is to get rid of the enablers. It's not like governments are wrong in thinking modern gamers are retarded anyway, they are right.
Yea, let's just make the market impossible for thousands of smaller developers, force AA developers into those same shit practices, and force AAA developers to go for even more jewish practices. That will solve it!

How this guy says "um" pisses me off.
>AYUM

I'm making you seethe right now.

>legal
>piracy
Pick one and only one.
Piracy is not legal.

>Its the other way around, this law will make digital distribution so cheap that physical media will just be reduced to a niche market. It has the potential of destroying the companies that clinge to the old tech.

The law will take both with them. Doesn't matter if it's digital or physical. There will be NO profits for any gaming company after the first month of sales. No reason to buy new copies for higher price when you can just buy a used copy.

Luckily the law is limited to France only. If it was the entire world, it will be taking down the entire gaming industry. I imagine the only way a gaming company would survive is to start pumping out gacha shit.

>reading comprehension

>Piracy is not legal.
It de facto will be if this resale law passes.

>Piracy is not legal.
Tell that to ser Francis Drake

>Luckily the law is limited to France only.
UsedSoft v Oracle.

>I should profit from every transaction involving a copy of my work
Holy fuck, the delusion of failed SJW devs.

>Luckily the law is limited to France only
French VPN subscriptions skyrocket

Is valve going to give everyone the installer to their games now? I doubt valve would let secondhand buyers use their servers for free. Wouldn't selling the games be illegal like the way selling other people music is illegal?

>reading comprehension
Where in that statement did I say anything about getting a cut? It's equating the outcome of this law to being equivalent to piracy.

>I doubt valve would let secondhand buyers use their servers for free.
Valve let people who bought Steam keys from other stores use their servers.
It should be noted that they don't see a single cent off of Steam keys.

Remember when valve was good? It all went downhill after they became more concerned with microtransactions and ripping off mods than actually making games.

12 years old cretin, people have been re-selling games ever since they were born, for fuck sake, gamestop still re-sells games.

No one pulls the "muh legal piracy" shit with any other re-selling.

what did you expect from retarded old boomer judges that don't understand today's technology. Half them can't even operate a smartphone.

They cling to what they know of the old days before there was such a thing a digital distribution and don't understand the impact of digital sales. They are applying the cause and effect of physical goods onto digital goods and think it's fair without understanding anything at all about the consequences.

These judges really need to die off or retire for more younger and modern judges that actually understands technology.

>>take down the entire gaming industry

It will just take down the business that cant adapt, and thats how it works in capitalism.

The successful ones will find a way to make it work, for example making all the games free but working only on a kickstarter model. So that the consumers that are interested in the development will have to pay for it beforehand and after its release its free for everybody.

Someone give me a tl;dr of this.

Nice Reddit spacing, faggot dev.
Anyways, you missed the point.
It's not just France.

Because there is a physical object with inherent limited value by virtue of being a perishable material. There is degradation where new is actually superior to used. In the infiintely perfectly reproducible digital industries, yes, it would be legal piracy. What's the difference between torrenting an album vs buying a digital resale through private transaction?

> for example making all the games free but working only on a kickstarter model.
im fucking dead

Attached: 1433896992872.jpg (2000x1087, 442K)

Don't sell digital copies, then.

Holy fuck, you digital-only kids are actually scared of being able to resell things you buy? I didn't realize things had gotten that bad. I used to wonder how Steam fanboys could so blindly defend all the shit that Valve does, but if you're coming from a place where a basic consumer right scares you, a lot of it makes sense now.

>avoiding the question
Okay user

That model and F2P are the only way they can make money, unless you create a law to protect them. But creating laws to protect a specific business from the advantages to the consumer of technological advances is just retarded and anti-free market.

>as someone who has been buying IOS games for years,
Imagine being this fucking retarded

Attached: sr.jpg (250x250, 7K)

I don't understand why Valve is the only one being sweated about this, should every digital store, even console ones be subject to this?
Also a sidenote I do find it funny Valve is fighting so hard against this pro-consumer action and people still try to argue Valve is pro-consumer.

if f2p and kickstarter are the only models that can fund game development all youll get are shitty fucking games. can you seriously not think 2 steps ahead before you start jerking off over your bullshit consumer rights?

Both are products bought by a consumer.
Both should be held to the same standerds.
There's not a single industry that went under because people resold stuff.

They did this with Oracle 7 years ago.

Its not even about consumer rights, its just allowing the free market to regulate itself in benefit of the consumer. There is just a retard that thinks that since things have worked a certain way in the last decades it should keep working like that because companies shouldn't be forced to adapt.

quick rundown on the oracle thing pls

>Is valve going to give everyone the installer to their games now?

The best way to get around the bullshit law is to give the rights to redownload the game over and over ONLY to the initial buyer of the new key. Anything after should be handled by the reseller. That would put the responsibilities of the installer of the game and any other required software in the hands of the reseller. No reason why Valve should use their servers and bandwidth to shoulder the responsibility of whatever the reseller does with the key. Bandwidth isn't free after all and Steam isn't a charity. They shouldn't be held responsible for supplying third party reselling with everything since they don't make shit from it.

If you buy a game from walmart and then resell it later on craigslist, it's not the responsibility of walmart if anything goes wrong. Same logic applies.

but there's zero difference from piracy. if piracy sites were to start charging money it would be the exact same thing.

>its just allowing the free market to regulate itself in benefit of the consumer.
Yep, corporate shills.

Search Oracle in this very thread, you will find out the case.

>They did this with Oracle 7 years ago.
it was one case and it hasnt been applied broadly yet gamerlaw.co.uk/2014/eu-digital-resale-rights-state-of-play/. and there are other cases going on right now where the EU court is expected to rule against decisions like this. things are still being figured out and nothing is set in stone

And now maybe you are starting to understand why paying 60$ for a digital product is fucking stupid.

Germany also did it the following year with SAP.
theregister.co.uk/2013/12/05/sap_software_licensing_terms_invalidated/

Your argument is as retarded as you. The quality of a game is not determined by the business model. Some F2P games are good, others are bad, some kickstarter games are good, other are not, some "normal model" games are shit and some are decent.

If we let the free market regulate itself companies will eventually realize they cant keep producing shit because people wont back their kickstarters, same thing with F2P.

Again what is the difference between torrenting an album vs buying a digital resale? Can I just consider torrenting an album as the reseller selling it for $0? Now "piracy" is legal :^)

How would storefronts handle the case if someone wants to cash out the funbox (i assume) they get from reselling a game without going through another nightmare scenario like G2A with all the fraud and money laundering?

Fuck the French and their stupid laws. Even when they're right they're still French so fuck them. Only pussy countries will acknowledge this.

Valve was the one being sued over this, about 4 years ago, the appeal will stall some more years.

>with all the fraud and money laundering?

Attached: K86kVK2[1].jpg (486x168, 11K)

I'd agree with you ONLY if Steam does not have to shoulder the responsibility of providing the installing and any software needed to play the game to whoever you resold the key to.

It's the same logic as if you bought a physical copy from gamestop during the good old days and then resold the game to someone else later on. gamestop isn't responsible for whatever you do with that game or resale if anything goes wrong.

>Can I just consider torrenting an album as the reseller selling it for $0?
The pirate is giving it away to several people.
A reseller just to one.

my argument remains because youre ignoring the fact that most games are produced with private money. that money wont be as willing to fund games if profits are lower. the whole industry will shrink as a result and no amount of kickstarting will make up for it. everyone loses, less games are made, worse games are made.

>more money means more quality games

>The quality of a game is not determined by the business model.

enjoy your gacha tier games. This is what you are asking for.

Yes, the industry as we know it will die, and thats a good thing. Old business model going bankrupt to allow new more modern companies to thrive is always a good thing. There will be no room in the new industry for EA, blizzard or other similar mega corporations, only the companies that can create good games with a small budget will survive. And thats a fucking good thing you corporate shill.

>people are upsets by this and actively defend the rights of a multibillion dollar company that ALREADY sell live services and lootboxes and stopped developing single player AAA games decades ago.
man i like steam but this whole shit got to cancerous level. Now this nu-pc fags defending this stuff like console warriors. Its fucking sad

I see no difference between those games and ME Andromeda or most shit created by EA.

Must be great to be a multimillion dollar company and still have retards fervently sucking your dick and worrying about your well being

Attached: 1568958633539.jpg (1280x720, 110K)

I don't do that.
I'll pay $40 for a high quality game if i like the devs.

>You're the reasons most games now cost $75 to $150 at day one with all the cut content and day one dlc. Plus, you enable microtransactions and full priced digital.
That's actually europoors and third worlders who can't get enough of FIFA. You're literally keeping EA alive by slurping up their rehashed shit every year.

>There will be no room in the new industry for EA, blizzard or other similar mega corporations, only the companies that can create good games with a small budget will survive. And thats a fucking good thing you corporate shill.
You're so naive it hurts me. Companies that will survive will be a new tier of cancer the likes of which you've never seen before. You're fucking retarded and you should kill yourself you fucking nigger commie

>he thinks the law will harm AAA publishers
Top kek
Enjoy even more subscription and lootboxes, since EU makes it the only profitable way to make games

You are right, and both will be fine

Or NBA 2K20.
vice.com/en_us/article/gyzq89/not-content-with-just-loot-boxes-nba-2k20-has-actual-casino-games

No one will make any decent profit in overstaurated market.

Games in the 90s were only sold at retail and they were profitable.

I don't really give a shit.
If it all goes to hell after this, we all saw it coming and this is our chance off the ride.
If nothing happens then it's business as usual.
Either way my backlog endures

Attached: 1396744105742.gif (199x141, 2.56M)

indies are not multimillion dollar companies

Yes like the old days, you can sell whatever physical copy of games you own. I'm fine with this.

Sure let them resell digital games. Just make sure Steam shouldn't be forced to provide installers to the third party that buys your resold digital key. You should be the one responsible for providing that. Because that's how it went back in the good old days.

If you buy something from a brick and mortar store and resell whatever you brought later on, that brick and mortar store is not responsible for whatever you resold or how the transaction goes. Nor are they even forced to rebuy your old shit. Oddly enough the government wants to force Steam to have to buy your old keys.

You see the logic when you "consumer rights" asshats want to only get your way just because you could resell your shit in the old days but refuse to take responsibility for what you sell unlike the old days?

>indie developers just making cool small games who will get fucked by this are multimillion dollar companies

>Oddly enough the government wants to force Steam to have to buy your old keys.
[citation needed]

So by your standards if i sell my physical copy of a game to a random guy its worse than piracy?
With your way of thinking, we had online passes...

>I see no difference between those games and ME Andromeda or most shit created by EA.

when you have to cherrypick bad games to support your arguments... you really have no legit arguments. Why not pick good games like Witcher 3? Oh because then it won't fit your narrative.

>> Defending the creations of laws to destroy the free market
>> calling other commies

Fuck off, you are trolling at this point. Just let the free market figure itself out you nigger, stop defending mega corporations. If they cant handle the change they must die, thats how the market works and it always benefits the consumer

>weeb cannot think of the implications this will bring to smaller devs as well.
must be great to be stupid eh.

What are you fucking on about, im talking about retards that suck valve cock and are against anti cooperate law.
Stop being green text memester and read

>At worst they can just ban France
I would pay for this to happen.

You know, The Witcher 3 had actual physical copies and they weren't crying about how they didn't got profits of resellings of those copies.

>Games in the 90s were only sold at retail and they were profitable.
In 90s.

>No one will make any decent profit in overstaurated market.
False, the biggest will.

How am I defending the creation of laws to destroy the free market? The free market exists right now. You're the one who wants to change it to prevent individuals in the market to act freely, i.e. to sell licenses to their software with clauses that prohibit the resale of said software. YOU want to force individuals to sell their licenses in such a way that it can be resold, overriding the free trade two individuals (company selling game and buyer) are engaged in. How the fuck are you talking about defending the free market you fucking retard?

>im talking about retards that suck valve cock
Even Valve wouldn't harmed since all their games are f2p.

>False, the biggest will.
Anthem.

Why the fuck would anyone want to buy a new game from a dev/publisher then?

This is the digital landscape, there's no physical degradation, so when someone is selling second hand "used" games and a publisher is selling a "new" game there's literally no difference from each other. The "used" game will probably be cheaper so what reason do I have to give devs my money ever again?

Easy, don't sell digital copies.

What's the difference between a new copy and used copy in digital if it's just a license and 1s and 0s?

Va baiser ta mère while i resell my games on steam

Wait won't this law hurt story driven single player games? Looks like more companies will switch to online f2p garbages rip

>> cherrypicking

Are... are you asking for a list of bad games released by AAA companies? Are you so fucking dense that consider that bad games must be such an exception that mentioning one is cherrypicking?

I can literally post 50 bad games released by AAA in the last decade and it would even take me half an hour.

Yes there are good game, but also bad. The same way there are good F2P games and also bad ones, the same way there are good kickstarter games and also bad ones. Thats the point of my argument, there is no causation between the quality of the games and the business model behind it.

nobody cares about physical copies because they degrade over time. Discs break, stolen or get scratched up. It's not something that will last forever. There's only so many times it will change hands before it's unplayable. Also most people feel it's a hassle reselling it to gamestop or even going to craigs list and meeting up with someone.

A digital key on the other hand is something that will never degrade. No matter how many times you download it... it's gonna be a perfect copy. Also, it's much more easily to sell something online than to sell physical shit.

It seems to be that everybody in the Valve Internet Defense Force gets the same script.

Steam/Publishers could implement a ruling where you can't resell a game within one month of its release.

>xy wouldnt be harmed
how does change the fact that im complaining about niggers that defend multibillion companies ?
do you have dyslexia or something?

>Valve Internet Defense Force
You dumbfuck. This doesn't just affect Valve, it affects the entire digital marketplace as a whole.

>valve and publishers would be forced by law to implement reselling in the first place
>"they just implement a ruling that ooverwrites laws!"
is this peak galaxy brain?
TOS cant overwrite laws, user.

>Are... are you asking for a list of bad games released by AAA companies? Are you so fucking dense that consider that bad games must be such an exception that mentioning one is cherrypicking?

you're the one cherrypicking bad games to prove your point, retard.

You either can't resell released games immediately or every developer gets fucked in the ass by undercutting.

None here defends multibillion companies.
Especially since this law not going to hurt them

>Looks like more companies will switch to online f2p garbages rip

pretty much. They will have to make some f2p crap with TONS AND TONS of microtransactions. No reason to make single player games anymore since all profits stop after like the first month.

Post yfw resale prices will go lower than even peak discount Steam sale prices within a month of release
Post yfw this kills G2A

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>Post yfw this kills G2A
Holy shit, it's true.

It's not what you want. It's what the law says. And the law says they will allow reselling of games. There is no time limit of how early you can resell it.

And yes I do agree with you that undercutting devs will fuck over the gaming development. These things are why I am against the ruling. The judge is obviously a dumb boomer trying to implement old outdated reasoning of physical goods onto digital goods without realizing the consequences.

Their entire business model is reselling games. Once it becomes legal their business will only grow bigger. What train of thought led you to thinking they will die?

>can't borrow
you can. Actually steam let's you borrow another account's whole library while that account isn't playing games. It's called steam sharing or something.

>can't play anywhere unless you bring the machine with you
No. You can play your whole library on any computer.

>can't find a cheap used copy after a month
Actual criticism

>can't sell to make more half the money back after a month
Same criticism as last one.

>stays at full price much longer
Are you sure about this? In my experience it's other way around.

>can lose your game if do [thing] they don't like
You lost me here. From what I know(I never recived a ban for any games in my life) steam vac bans only happen to online games. It's not like having physical copy of csgo will stop you from getting banned. If your steam account gets vac banned you can still play your bought games just fine.

>gamepass
Steam doesn't have gamepass. I actually wish they had one.

>What train of thought led you to thinking they will die?
Wouldn't resellings take place in the Steam Marketplace?

G2A is going to buy Steam?

Probably not the right thread to ask, but is G2A safe to use? A friend of mine wants to get a game from them because the game never seems to go on sale

G2A sells keys bought with stolen credit cards. They will undercut even the legit used key market just to make a profit.

>but is G2A safe to use?
No idea, never used it.

On one hand more things to truly make digital ownership a reality is better.

But on the other this seems like a really misguided effort from the frogs to appeal to consumers for brownie points. It feels as if they just threw this shit out there without realizing the implications of a digital landscape and how a sudden appearance of an aftermarket with millions of games circulating everywhere would drastically affect the industry at large. And not even games, but simply digital market places as a whole.

I don't know about this one lads. I'm of two minds on it.
Ah fuck it I guess. I'll just stick to pirating and forget about this shit.

The details on this are still light but I'd assume the law would allow Steam to profit from each resale as well, since it's in their system and they need to at least cover their costs. Because of this people will want to resell their games elsewhere that takes a lower cut.

Most people seem to have no problem with it but a small percentage have had the games they bought cancelled.

>G2A sells keys bought with stolen credit cards.

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It's gonna flop, you do not own the game, you simply purchased the license to download it.

If they really want to follow through with this, they have to do the same with any other software license model.

If that's the case.
>Because of this people will want to resell their games elsewhere that takes a lower cut.
I doubt that they will allow you to generate a key.

>they have to do the same with any other software license model
Based brainlet. They literally did it in 2012 with software license model.

>None here defends multibillion companies.
Oh so the hordes of valve cocksuckers on Yea Forums are """""""none""""""" then

Why only games? What about digital music? Digital movies and tv shows? Why are games the primary focus?

Because that's what this particular court case was about, dumbass

But someone who'd buy a "used" code has to re-activate it in Steam after all.

half the time. But they are really a shady grey market using shady tactics when they can. Many game companies called them out on selling stolen keys.
There have also been times when they charged some a "account fee" bullshit.

Most gaming devs hate them because they buy keys using stolen credit cards to resell the keys. gaming devs don't make money off this because the owner of those credit cards will find out and do chargebacks. Banks charge the seller a fine for every chargeback so gaming devs end up losing money instead of make money because of places like G2A. And they are located in China so they are immune to legal shit.

How will this work with regional pricing? Can pretend I'm some europoor and resell at NA resale prices at a profit? What's to stop europoors from flooding the market until everyone basically gets slightly-over-europoor pricing?

>They literally did it in 2012 with software license model.
You need to stop talking like this. One case does not mean something is being applied broadly around the world and is just a given. That's not how law works my brainless friend

If this gets passed probably all digital goods might get similar treatment. Might be good for consumers.

This will surely set some precedent that will affect other digital industries.

That's the most interesting question in the whole thread. I guess it you can resell it within the country you bought it.

>One case does not mean something is being applied broadly around the world and is just a given.
It was literally the Supreme Court of the European Union.

Region locked reselling.

If you're from a thirdworld shithole region then you can only resell games to other people in your region.

>Most gaming devs hate them because they buy keys using stolen credit cards to resell the keys
Is there evidence of this? Surely they would have been charged by now

Show me any of their post here.
Mostly people worrying about death of single player games, since law hurts them, but doesn;'t demanind make microtransactions resellable

What's to stop the EU from including in the law that region locking is not legal? There are so many ramifications to this.

Not the other guy but, the free market is a very simple concept, supply and demand determine the price of a good.

There are a bunch of things that can break the free market, artificial scarcity is one of those, hell i bet you can even find that in the wikipedia page of free market if you dont like reading.

Prohibiting the reselling of a good is creating artificial scarcity and should be treated the same way illegal monopolies are.

>It was literally the Supreme Court of the European Union.
They've ruled on that case but have given no further instructions on what or how other companies have to comply. This case from Valve is an example of how these things play out over time. But again, if they rule in an unreasonable manner for Valve they'll eventually have to do the same for other companies like Apple with iTunes, and that would have broad implications for everything digital in Europe. The point is, these things are still being worked out and the fact that there was a ruling 7 years ago does not mean that the thing has already happened and it's set in stone and that's how it is from now on. It's not how law works.

>Is there evidence of this?

just ask all the small indie devs that came out against them after getting a shitload of chargebacks from their bank. They went public on this shit awhile back.

> Surely they would have been charged by now

They a chink company. Chinks protect their own and don't give a fuck about about fucked over westerners. Western laws don't reach china.

The EU is retarded. They have to realize the implications of this.

In fact, Valve is going to fight EU in court again over geolocking issues and how a German should be able to buy a cheaper game in some of the lesser slavic regions.

About that...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtsaeng_v._John_Wiley_&_Sons,_Inc.
>Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 568 U.S. 519 (2013) is a United States Supreme Court copyright decision in which the Court held, 6–3, that the first-sale doctrine applies to copies of copyrighted works lawfully made abroad.

youtube.com/watch?v=mBakPg6x63Q
Not only do they know about it, they allow it.
>Tinybuild, an indie dev that was ruined by G2A found out that 26,000 copies of their game were sold at half retail price on G2A from stolen credit cards
>G2A takes 30% of the transaction into pocket and even further charge to to make sure you don't "get a stolen key"
>G2A will never refund your money if your key turns out to be stolen and will instead erase transaction history

>just ask all the small indie devs
I wanted evidence, not hearsay

The law says the first seller can't control what happens to the product after it's sold.

Living under a rock doesn't entitle you to get everything handed to you.

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Prohibiting the resale of a good that can be copied with no effort is not artificial scarcity. This is why copyright was invented when the printing press came around hundreds of years ago: authors weren't able to make a living off of their creations because copying them was so effortless. We, as a society, decided that copyright was the right system to develop because in the long run it allows creators to live off of their work and that benefits society. The software license system applied to games is another one of those creations that follow a similar idea.

None of this is against the free market, it's just individuals selling their products with various conditions using a framework that we all agree on. If you don't agree to this framework you can just not buy the product. But you can't force individuals to act in a way that they don't want to act and to sell you products with the conditions you want if they don't want to do it. If you use the government to force creators to do this you're acting against the idea of a free market, because the government is the only entity that can use THE THREAT OF FORCE to force people to act in a certain way. Companies can't force you to buy their products if you don't agree with their licenses.

You can't just try to apply laws designed for physical (or physical backed) objects to things which are neither. That's fucking retarded. This entire thing is a fiasco which will result in either nothing, or vidya vendors fucking over the consumer by exploiting the utter stupidity of the entire situation in some bizarre but entirely legal fashion.

Does anybody in Europe know how to use a fucking computer?

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....
literarl the first post
OBVIOUSLY a post about death of singleplayer games!

>20-30% of all keys on the internet are purchased with stolen credit cards
Wait a minute, so 30% of digital sales at release are just thieves making a profit?

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Where exactly this post is cocksucking Valve's dick, exactly?

Are you retarded?
Do you think every copy of a redownloaded digital game is a copy of someone else's download?

telling you to google it doesn't mean listen and believe, retard.

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That's utterly moronic. There is a difference, and until these fucking idiots accept that, a decent legal support of ownership rights as applied to digital goods can never exist.

>paid pirating
HOLY BASED FRANCE

>It's why things like GDPR and 14 day refund went through
And goddamnit am I thankful for that.
As a yuro working in an american establishment in Europe, I really don't understand how Americans can slave their rights and lives away for the profit of the company.
I'm glad I didn't have to give fingerprints and DNA samples in order to have a job. Also they have mandatory "learnings" everyone (including me) has to pass, saying how to behave on the job, openly saying things like "You have a meeting in a few minutes. Your expecting wife called you saying that her water broke. What do you do? Tell her you have a meeting planned and attend it, or notify your manager and leave to be with your wife."
No joke, you have to answer the former in order to pass the mandatory "learning", which they can fire you if you don't pass it.
This is ridiculous, and I don't get why would anyone support that model.

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if not this the launcher thing gonna fuck up the digital pc market. Masterrace niggers can meme as much as they want.
we are going back to no release bois!

>we are going back to no release bois!
If only...

Good lord you sound like a total faggot. Who gives a shit about any of this, the only real question is whether whatever the implementation of this ruling is will adversely effect video game production because of reselling cutting into revenue. If it does then it is possible the low prices won't even seem worth it to many consumers because less of their favorite kinds of games are being made.

gacha and f2p is the future of gaming if these retarded EU laws gets their way.

>Complaining about entry level psyche evals

You said this 20 times in this very thread, doomposter.

If digital videogames have to be resellable, does that mean digital music, movies, and books do too?

gacha and f2p are the majority of threads in Yea Forums already you tourist

>does that mean digital music, movies, and books do too?
Yes.

There is more than 1 user saying it.
And you still lack of counter-argument, my dear moba-kid

>somehow implying gachafags aren't the tourists

>WAHHH CORPS GETTING REGULATED MEANS CUSTOMERS GET FUCKED
literal amerinigger tier thought
kneecapping companies to support consumer rights is always a good thing
why do mutts think not being a corporate slave is communist tyranny?
are the rights to liberty of CEOs and executives that important to them?

If there's demand, someone will deliver.
It happens with consoles, it will happen with PC.
Dilate.

>does that mean digital music, movies, and books do too?

It should, but EU is too retarded to see a a relation to them. They're also too retarded to see gambling mechanics in a basketball game.

>admits, that f2p and gacha became mojority of Yea Forums threads recently
>calls someone else a tourist

>doesnt know what majority for years by now means
peak burger education

>sell all games on steam account
>rebuy all the games but now on epic games
try telling me i'm not based

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I wonder if the big companies could foresee this and began games as a service preemptively. I doubt it'll be too catastrophic for indies, will just cull a lot of the trash being dumped on the marketplace. For AAAs I can only imagine the money-grubbing tactics which will ensue.

If is passes in France it may have ramifications throughout the EU. But if it comes to that it comes to that. I imagine most people would side with steam on the matter since its pretty absurd that you'd be able to resell something used which is identical to new.

>thinking the average consumer would ever even give a femtosecond of thought as to how their purchase would affect the games industry.
I don't know what you're smoking, but it must be pretty strong.

>If there's demand, someone will deliver.
But sp demand would never surpass the f2p demand,
oh and I hope you enjoy all those nice AAA single player games like Mass Effect Andromeda

For what reason? To give money to Epic Games and the devs again but in another store? Also, Epic Games Store by now only takes exclusives.

>I imagine most people would side with steam on the matter since its pretty absurd that you'd be able to resell something used which is identical to new.
ding ding ding

It's not a psyche evaluation, you have to go through the entire thing that forces you to chose answers that leaves your personnal life, opinion, and rights out the door, and then have to sign a paper saying that you will apply everything stated in that "learning", with you being okay with sanctions like getting fired being applied if you fail to apply it.

Wait is that how the ruling will go? All the digital storefronts will now become open platforms when it comes to reselling?

>there are no niche products
Die, please.

to stick it to gaben and his next dota spin off

Ok, how would you sell a game from your steam library? Through where? How would the transaction be verifyied so the same license or key or anything that identifies your property over the game on steam got through? This bulshit makes no sense at all.

>>But you can't force individuals to act in a way that they don't want to act and to sell you products with the conditions you want if they don't want to do it.

Thats the point, they arent forcing anyone any conditions, they are forcing "no conditions", thats different. Just like how Antitrust laws dont force the monopolies to behave a specific way, on the contrary they force companies to behave as if they normally would.

The TOE are not copyright laws, copyright laws are copyright laws. While it could be argued that copyright laws are anti - free market, and no one, not even creator are entitled to money; thats not what we are debating here. This is a question of wherever a seller can control what happens to his goods after he sold them (excluding copyright restrictions for the reasons you have listed), and the answer is "no" because the free market requires that freedom .

>If there's demand, someone will deliver.

Not if the reward is so fucking small that you're better off not delivering.

with this ruling, niche products will be the first to die off

Like you sell objects in the Steam Market. You sell the game, you lose access to download it.

>years is recently
do you have dyslexia on top of being a retard?

Honestly, even if no one released any new games on Steam starting next year, there are probably enough games on Steam currently that you would die of your natural lifespan first before you'd be able to finish them all.

The only thing this would allow is to sell your entire account to someone, without Valve being allowed to ban said account for doing so.

>>there are no niche products
>he actually likes pixel-shit
Greedfall isn't a niche product, but made by company smaller than EA, so it's gonna to die.

Boo fucking hoo, don't work there

Kickstarter, man.

I can count the number of indies I've genuinely enjoyed from start to finish on one hand.

>>years is recently
It is.

Growing population and increasing levels of automation in all sectors result in a fundamental pointlessness of the low and mid-low tiers of society. A solid 70% of them are chaff who, to the eyes of the corporate monster, are effectively indistinguishable from each other and can be replaced in under an hour. Why would they not pick the guy who is willing to forsake any sort of actual life in favour of kowtowing to his masters and slaving for minimum wage? Things devolve until it becomes a competition to see which serf is willing to put up with the shittiest conditions, with no motivation for those in the ivory towers to improve conditions, keep morale up, or treat those workers as anything other than the shit-eating, boot-licking drones that they have made of themselves.

Capitalism is fucked. Unregulated capitalism is a nightmare waiting to happen. But it will happen, because it means that the corps can enact all of the above in their pursuit of GROWTH. Because the market must GROW, it must always, always grow - Infinitely. The market must grow infinitely, within the bounds of a finite system. And that means cutting costs. It means lowering the denominator. It means the death of ethics.

Steam does have a marketplace for all their bullshit cards/emote shit.

I imagine it will work the same way. List you game on sale for a price on the marketplace. Someone will buy it or make offer.

Either way... Steam really shouldn't have to provide installer or anything to 2nd hand reselling. Or even a marketplace for this. This should be the responsibility of the reseller.

i don't see why it would only be a ruling exclusive to steam

>yes
based retard

Seething, redditor

Yes, fuck capitalism. By the way, where do you want these 400,000 "refugees" that came in this year?

>Not if the reward is so fucking small that you're better off not delivering.

Kickstarter

How many times can you beg the audience to kickstart your shit before they tell you to fuck off?

>they are forcing "no conditions"
Forcing no conditions is getting in the middle of a peaceful interaction between two individuals and dictating how that interaction should go. This is against the free market. Take debt. I lend you some money with the condition that you pay me back later. How is the government coming into this interaction and saying: "you can lend this man money but you must do so with no conditions because conditions aren't fair". It makes no sense, because your argument is retarded and you haven't put any thought into it.

>This is a question of wherever a seller can control what happens to his goods after he sold them (excluding copyright restrictions for the reasons you have listed), and the answer is "no" because the free market requires that freedom .
You're missing the fact that the good is digital. When a good is digital the creator can do whatever the fuck he wants to prevent people from doing whatever he states in his terms. Boomers in government (and apparently you) don't understand how the Internet works and they don't understand this fact.

Pretty soon, you're going to be able to still digital games. While it may seem like a consumer win on the surface, if you're not completely fucking retarded and think about it for 10 seconds you'll realize how bad things will get. Digital "used" is not the same as physical used. There is literally no reason not to buy digital used for cheaper. That's not the real issue, though. What's going to destroy game sales is the ability to set your own price. Imagine a game swap thread on Yea Forums: you bought Sekiro and beat it, and now you want to play DMC5. Someone in the thread (there will always be someone) has DMC5 and wants to play Sekiro. You each sell the game to the other for $0.01. This goes on and on to the point that no one is really buying new games anymore. Sales will go from hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands, and you'll see devs try to make their money back by making more online games that require a copy to play with friends, or microtransactions, or preorder DLC tied to your account. Indie games will just die. Who's going to buy Baba is You at full price when you can pick it up when you have some free time for dirt cheap, or just trade it for another indie game you bought? If you have friends and family with steam, you all just trade games between your group for a penny every time. It will reek havock on the market.

I know that retards want to pretend all devs are greedy and evil (plenty are) and that they should be making games out of pure passion with no monetary incentive, but the reality is that things just don't work that way. Anyone crying about corporate bootlickers and consumer rights who's pretending this is unequivocally a win for us is a complete fucking retard without a modicum of foresight.

Those rules don't apply to me since thank god I'm european, so I don't have yo get through the hoops and I'm actually protected against unpaid overtime or things like that.
I just don't get how one can be okay with this, or even worse, consider corporations doing shit like that as divine entities they have to protect by shitposting on an ukranian shoe-cleaning board saying that more consumer protection is a bad thing.

But the regulation is fucking nonsense! I'm all for consumer rights, I'm all for regulations, when they actually have some form of logic involved somewhere along the line.

You can't just force a square peg in a round hole. These laws cannot effectively apply in the way that they want them to. This is an outside-context problem that they were never designed to address. If we ever want to progress, we need new laws designed specifically for these scenarios, not just a band-aid stuck on top of the old, outdated laws.

Valve takes a cut of the Marketplace transactions so I can see something similar occurring with game reselling.

You sound like you're full of shit m9

Assuming reselling digital games becomes the norm, I don't really see indie games and single player games living much longer outside of subscription based models

cringe doomposter

>HUURRRRR CONSUMER = BAD, CORPORATIONS = GOOD

> Valve takes a cut of the Marketplace transactions so I can see something similar occurring with game reselling.

so everyone earns a little... EXCEPT the devs who made the game. EU laws are retarded as fuck.

>I just don't get how one can be okay with this, or even worse, consider corporations doing shit like that as divine entities they have to protect by shitposting on an ukranian shoe-cleaning board saying that more consumer protection is a bad thing.
Because unlike customer, consumer shouldn't be protected, for he is lesser creature.

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You can already do this by selling cracked games. Then you piss off the law and the pirates at the same time while profiting off of dumbasses.

Never said anything about conditions not being fair, dont strawman my argument. I explicitly argued that its just like with Anti Trust laws, some conditions have to be illegal for the free market to exist, the free market cant exist with tying contracts and it cant exist with the prohibition of reselling that creates artificial scarcity.

>Subscription
>single player

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>G2A responded to tinyBuild's claims, stating that it offered to help to identify which keys had been fraudulently purchased as to determine which resellers had committed illegal chargebacks and remove them from G2A. G2A also questioned the US$450,000 figure arrived at by tinyBuild, noting that its games had either been discounted several times on other sites or given away for free and consequently felt the figure was inflated.
retard

Don't discuss with indie shills, they're braindead.

> Refusing to listen to logical cause and effect.
> can only repeat the same phrases with no logical rebuttal

You're a npc.

I wonder if this law will extend to reselling microtransactions and DLC. Imagine reselling gacha waifus or those shitty loot box contents.

Devs would start adding some sort of mp to justify it, like in mass effect 3

The video says 200k so I don't know what you're talking about

Nah, it's too sane and logical for EU and commies in general

We can put them all in the shittiest jobs imaginable. They don't mind working 16 hour days at all! Also, fuck workplace safety, they don't mind that 10% of them will lose a limb within a year. It saves us money so it's fine.

All refugee crisis and immigration does is accelerate a process that is already inevitable in the capitalist system. There's always a loyal citizen who is willing to demean themselves slightly more than their neighbor for the same paycheck. Hell, that patriotism might actually help, if the corps frame it in the right way - Serve your country, suffer for your nation, your awful life of slave labour will make [Country] great!

No, foreigners taking all your jobs is a smokescreen to deflect blame from the true abomination. The corporations absolutely LOVE that people are blaming the foreigners, despite the fact that they were the ones who wanted them here so that they could have slave labourers who work for pittance. Not to mention, if they do step out of line or start thinking about, you know, maybe demanding to be treated like a fucking person and not a drone, we can just report them and have them shipped off!

Refugee and immigration crises will shoot a nation dead, but it will be the corporations pulling the trigger.

I don't trust G2A as far as I can throw them. Also they've been caught asking gaming journalists to shill them and then claim it was a rogue employee that did that.

>Live service singleplayer games

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Which part of my post specifically do you take issue with? Try actually arguing what I said instead of screaming about corporations while gargling your dad's cum.

That's why I said it'll be tied to your account.

>Imagine reselling gacha
Imagine actually being a subhuman who plays gacha. If this ruling kills gachashit, I'm all for it regardless of the fallout.

Wouldn't this hurt GOG a lot?

DRM will become far more appealing for devs if this happens.

I want them in "sanctuary" cities so those Democrat states will know what a shithole their cities has become in their efforts to secure more Democrat voters.

Something like you need the EA subscription to play the new jedi rpg and you need the ubisoft subscription to play asscreed 15. They get around the law if they don't sell you a licence and instead it's a subscription

I'm not going to watch some retarded video when I can read the news by myself.
TinyBuild themselves claimed it was 450k on their website so I have no idea what you are talking about or what that video is talking about.

it'll hurt everyone in the gaming industry.

They definitely have scummy practices, but the rumors about them allowing stolen keys to be sold are stupid.

>reselling gacha waifus
This would literally break all mobile games that offer free rolls

DRM won't matter if this passes. The point of DRM was to stop unauthorized redistribution. If redistribution of licenses becomes codified in law, DRM ceases to do anything useful.

Are you a generic corporate shill?
Do all the big names have a combined pool of money that gets used to hire people like you to blow smoke up people's asses and make them not think about things beyond a very basic surface level?

This is the future you choose
But more likely traditional single player games will simply die-out

>Imagine reselling gacha waifus or those shitty loot box contents.
South Korea actually allows you to sell digital objects.
english.yonhapnews.co.kr/Features/2010/01/13/48/0801000000AEN20100113009600315F.HTML

No, he's probably either a NEET or a European.

>implying they can know if the keys are stolen or not

>but the rumors about them allowing stolen keys to be sold are stupid.

those aren't rumors. real game devs come out and said it. You can deny it all you want, but that's just stupid.

Ok, send proof then.
I've only seen claims and no proof of this.

>inb4 "listen and believe" or "google it"

learn to google. I got better things to do right now than google it for you.

>Last month, South Korea's top court ruled that unlike online gambling -- games of luck that are banned by law in Korea -- acquiring game items takes time, effort and skill.
Gacha waifus are results of luck though.

But you had enough time to reply to this?

>This is the future you choose
France can blow me, this wont go through

>The necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges

yes because this is one of the things that's better than google for you.

>Shilling for a website that makes money off of stolen credit cards

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I've no use for G2A anymore since I can buy stuff off the RU Steam store.

there has already been a youtube video posted about this in this very thread, but you faggots ignored it since it doesn't conform to your arguments.

>a video is proof of anything
The absolute state of indie shills.