Vietnam game tries to be historically accurate

America did win all their engagements, though. What happened is that America was in a good position, suddenly declared the war over and signed some treaty, then fucked off. Then immediately the treaty was violated and North Vietnam conquered South Vietnam. So the US losing in the actual war part doesn't make sense, the loss was all political for them.

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War is an extension of politics. If you fail your political aim you lost. Why can't Americans accept they lost and move on? Pretty much all major countries lost a war at some point or another, but no, Americans are such sore losers they will pull of every mental gymnastic imaginable to delude themselves into believing they won. (You didn't)

>play objective based shooter
>spend all game fighting away from the objectives
>have a positive kdr
>lose
WOOOOOOOOOOOOWW

How can you say you won when you didn't gain anything? That's not winning.
VC may not have won but neither did you.

I should have used the word 'combat.' The point is that you can't show Americans losing in combat, they did fine there. They simply lost political will because of hippies and that's how the war was lost. So your realistic shooter shouldn't show them losing it via combat if they want to be accurate.

>implying kdr matters

Red Orchestra made a great Vietnam game. I actually feel nervous in the game because you die so fucking easily.

how many vietnam games with narratives exist where americans lose most/all engagements?
i feel like what you're saying is portrayed pretty regularly. americans win all the battles but lose the war

Based and maleriapilled

Ask OP.

Why are people on both sides so incredibly fucking ignorant of the Vietnam War?

Enlighten us then, Mr. History Channel

It's more nuanced then not, the peace accords were a farce that let america retreat a losing war with some semblance of dignity left.
The cessation of hostilities was conditional for both sides and it was also promised that should the north try shit there would be a response from the us.

You can win every battle but if your objective is to prop up an incompetent and unpopular regime that'll fall apart without heavy support it doesn't really matter how many battle you win.

>DUDE DOMINO THEORY
what the fuck is wrong with americans

>let america retreat a losing war
America wasn't on the losing end, though. They quit the war entirely because there was no political will, the public and media were extremely against it.

I imagine the few countries involved had a heavily propagandized view of the war and everyone else doesn't really have a reason to dig deep into it.

I mean it made sense at the time because the Soviets were actively trying to Commie every single country they could at the same time. Look at Iran, Soviets managed to fuck over the US too and the whole place is basically a terrorist state when it was one of the best places to live in the Middle East when the US was puppeting it.

Military Industrial Complex. Domino theory, muh WMDs, and terrorists in Afgan caves are all just made up bullshit to justify bloated military contracts and corporate welfare.

war makes money
americans love war and money
is it that hard to figure out?

It's not a loss because there was no real political aim or investment beyond lives lost to begin with. We got dragged in because France begged for help and as a show of force to keep Russia from being smug. We upheld our end of the bargain but then France abandoned their claim to the country, they objectively lost. We kept Russia in check for the most part and Vietnam was too devastated afterward to be of much use to either side anyway. Ultimately, that's a "win", but a hollow and relatively pointless one and the reason why the US re-evaluated continuing and just ended their involvement entirely. It was a waste of time, money, and human life with no real payoff, but it wasn't a loss because the other side didn't actually take anything from us. To win would not have been worthwhile so we just walked away. At best you can call it a stalemate.

the very definition of won the battles but lost the war

>478520843
You can win every battle and still lose the war.
I am American but even I accept that Vietnam was a massive failure.

The north vietnamese gave their troops the support needed to achieve their objective despite losing every battle and they won while the american people didn't and they lost.
You can argue about the semantic fine points of losing vs quitting all you like but for me it's a loss.

Wasn't my point.

ARVN lost the war, what was America supposed to do, nuke Hanoi?

Not support the arvn i suppose.

What was America's objective in Vietnam, did they achieve it?

I heard the australians did all the work while we sat around getting high and eating pizza

>well, you ask me we're shooting the wrong gooks.

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>it aint me starts playing

>Vietnam game
>based Tiger Force are not the protagonists

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i've been waiting for this fortunate post

fng

And then retreated and did it all over again the whole war. You can't defeat an entire country piecemeal, you have to hold that shit.

australians convinced america to get heavily involved when they would have left sooner, it's australia's greatest shitposting achievement

1983 americas cup was pretty up there too

what a loveable wasteland Australia is

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And now we blame americans for getting us involved in a silly war despite SEA being relevant to us and having fought in the malayan emergency.

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Except for the battle to keep communism out of the south, which was the entire point of being there.

Wasn't the point to stop the French from being overthrown?

Well they didn't lose it. They abandoned it it.

There is Rising Storm 2 Vietnam

Attached: RS2.jpg (1024x704, 146K)

This game was the best shit

This guy and his wife were the reason we lost Vietnam.
Seriously, they were fucking crazy. Especially his wife encouraging Buddhist Monks to continue burning themselves alive
youtube.com/watch?v=d_PWM9gWR5E

Attached: Ngo Dinh Diem.png (435x599, 199K)

>Wasn't the point to stop the French from being overthrown?
Which also was a failure, as they were booted out. That said, the whole fucking thing spanned more than 20 years so objectives and motivations are likely to change

>This guy and his wife were the reason we lost Vietnam.
JFK greenlit his assassination before US combat troops even entered the country, though.

Any of you guys seen that ten part documentary on the war? Pretty fucking good and not sure if it was just for publicity but was kinda nice the idea of both veterans meeting up and helping to build schools and shit where the place got bombed to fuck. Probably fake as fuck but its nice to imagine i really happened.

Yeah, but the constant abuse of his power in fighting the communists and Buddhist population had lost all of the possible respect the South could possibly have even before American combat troops landed.
Don't forget the amount of times he ignored his American advisors

sure, and thats why the enemy waged a guerilla war that tried to avoid any major engagements. and thats why the US lost.

I'm not trying to defend Diem, but blaming him for things which happend years after his death, when people like LBJ, Nixon and pic related did their best to fuck up things even more, seems a bit unfair.

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the thought of americans falling into spiked traps covered in asian feces delights me

Why was Vietnam ever considered that important anyway? I looked at a map and it's literally just the foreskin of Asia's dong.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory

If capitalism was so good, why would everyone want to be communist?

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>They did fine there

Umm, sweaty...

Domino theory that if Vietnam fell, the rest of Asia would fall to Communism as well.
That and immediately after WW2, France constantly told the US it needed to suck Vietnam's resources out of it to help it rebuild or else it would be too weak to resist falling under Russia's iron curtain and that mindset persisted even after France lost

What people don't understand about the Vietnam war is that it spanned two very different administrations with two very different goals for the war. Both administrations, for the most part, got what they wanted out of the war. The whole 'winning' and 'losing' implies you know what that means, or that it's some simple 'destroy the enemy' thing. Vietnam was a war for ideological supremacy in eastern asia, and it did it's job.

For the governments of these nations, communism promises them more personal power, which they always hunger for. For the people, communist is filled with sweet lies about equality and prosperity, which obviously never manifest in reality, so it's easy to fool the naive and young into believing it. Notice that students always serve as one of the primary supports of the fifth column and look at your own country, but realize also that every communist nation proceeded with a purge of the intellectual class once it was in power.

Good. The intellectual class is full of bourgeois basedboys. Commies are hardworking proletarians.

vietnam soldiers the type of niggas to lose the game because they spend the whole match playing like it's team deathmatch when it's CTF

Vietnam was lost because America refused to invade North Vietnam and finish off the Viet Kong. How could you ever lose a war if the enemy never invades your main bases of operation?

Work hard for a piece of bread while the political class eats like kings. In most of these communist nations the intellectual class earned what it got because it supported the revolution that killed it, but don't pretend the workers benefit at any point.

>Hey, Tet offensive was a bust, can we truce.
>Yeah okay, people at home don't like the war.
>NVA's face when.

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it was literally 20 Australians in Laos with their own Lawrence of Arabia style local militia that pretty much made sure that the viet cong in the south couldn't do more than job to the US marines in Vietnam. The Australians took their time to adapt to the local customs, learning the language and adopting their dress, they essentially became honorary members of the villages a lot like TE Lawrence. The NVA would attempt to move actually effective weapons on foot through the Ho Chi Minh trail and the Australians with their locals would arrive and completely fuck them up and when they couldn't do that head to head they were the ones that would mark targets for the US Air Force to zap like bugs, they were so efficient at this that essentially no arms made it through on the trail.

The CIA then went over their heads and took over the operation and ordered the locals to false flag their own villages as commies and kill their neighbors, the locals told them to fuck off and the whole operation fell apart. This would later be the cause of a resurgent viet cong able to engage in large fights like the Tet Offensive.

>i lost but i got some good punches in, right ?

I don't care about that but why do retards use Vietnam as a way of saying how china would beat the west in a war?
Like are they unaware of the fact china went to war with Vietnam after almost immediately after america did and lost horribly in a fraction of the time, with way less logistic problems to worry about?
And i don't mean lose as in
>just gave up
I mean actually got their shit kicked in.
I don't think using vietnam as an example of how a modern war would play out is smart in the first place anyway.

"'You know you never defeated us on the battlefield,' said the American colonel. The North Vietnamese colonel pondered this remark a moment. 'That may be so,' he replied, 'but it is also irrelevant.'"
~ Colonel Harry G. Summers Jr. and Colonel Tu, April 1975

Never trust an alphabet agency.

Would like some source on this, not that I don't believe you but I'd like to read about it.

>why do retards use Vietnam as a way of saying how china would beat the west in a war?
they don't understand the importance of naval forces when china isn't self-sufficient in food production

based australians

China didn't get their shit kicked in. They always lose a shit ton of soldiers in their wars, that's how they fight with a billion people's worth of manpower. The scenario in which China "beats" the West envisions a Western military host that is no longer able to enforce its guarantees in Asia, not that the Chinese hordes finally reach Europe and America as Bismarck envisioned. That at least seems to be happening peaceably without much resistance.

I knew a guy who had a relative who served with both Americans and Australians in Vietnam.

He said the Australians acted like pros who adapted to guerrilla warfare, while being with the Americans was terrifying.

The Americans never even tried to conceal their location, would make a ton of noise and speak at full volume and walk head first into ambushes. They also had a penchant for fragging their commanding officers.

Americans were conscripts - which is what the Draft is - conscription. The officers aren't that much smarter, I've visited an American military academy and boy these guys (and girls) were no geniuses. But the fact that America is still top dog in this world shows you just how retarded the rest of its people are.

Rommel said it best. If you want to take hell, send in the Aussies.

>The officers aren't that much smarter
Yeah this guy didn't say they were. In fact he told a story about a new officer who insisted on marching down a trail that according to the more seasoned soldiers was a guaranteed ambush.

A couple of these more grizzled soldiers gave everyone a look and they all just knew to create distance between themselves and the officer. Then one of them rolled a live grenade over to him.

Is Gallipoli worse than Hell then?

>The jews won
Fix'd that for you.

The vast majority of Americans believe Vietnam to be a loss. This is not refuted in our history books.

It's not a loss, it's a temporary setback.

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America didn't lose though, they just left.
They were winning, both in death count and territory.

Meanwhile...

Attached: McDonald%u2019s-Vietnamn-Hanoi.jpg (640x360, 65K)

Vietcong 1: still the best in Solo
Rising Storm 2: will forver be the best in multi

Just like they're winning in the middle east today, amarite?

Ronald's vest looks off

Pyrrhic victories.

They should remake Battlefield Vietnam

>But the fact that America is still top dog in this world shows you just how retarded the rest of its people are.
You know having the bigger gun is all that matter in this era ? Armed forces couldn't care less about the brain...

Imagine having cutting edge military technology only to get beaten by rice farmers with AKs.

All the wars in Asia fought by the US went horribly wrong due to the US Military being less a fighting force and more an arms trade show.
You can have the best guns, best planes and best ships but when your logistics are so back assward you have your own intelligence agencies fighting each other you have to admit your Military is inept.
Americans seem to get angry at this fact, and then resort to some sort of corporation worship to justify the fact that the emerging American culture has been ground up and destroyed by their corporations.
You see it in this thread right now, thinking Nike and McDonalds are "American" and not globalist corporations who do anything to make profit.

>Death count
Entirely pointless and in fact counter productive when you're fighting an ideological proxy war.

>Territory
Again entirely pointless when your goal of the war is to promote your political proxy.

Vietnam was a hilarious failure for America who forgot why they were even fighting and assumed blowing up chunks of jungle was a benefit.

>t.retard

Got no argument to counteract the point that America has no culture and is just the centre of globalist corporations to spew their agenda everywhere?

>Why are people [everywhere] so incredibly fucking ignorant of [everything]
ftfy
Because most of the population gets their "knowledge" of events from pop cultural osmosis, which favors simplistic, easily digestible/spreadable narratives.

>t.retard

I'm sorry you don't mourn the death of your culture American.

China accomplished its objectives in 1979.
That was ultimately not a loss.

If you look at the actual war though the tech advantage didn't really do anything but get Americans into trouble. War is pretty simple if you play by simple rules like advance and take territory while eliminating the enemy. Americans were jumping all over the place with helicopters doing crazy shit like dropping into enemy territory when the simple matter is they could have rolled armor and melted down all the trees taking Vietnam acre by acre fortifying everything along the way. It's the same way with Afghanistan and Iraq now. Territory is the key to war. You don't conquer a country and then hide in the green zone because you want to save money. That's not how a proper war is fought.

imagine losing to rice farmers who pooped on sticks

America died with Teddy Roosevelt. What is left is a corporation worshiping cesspit that flips it's own cultural ideals for money. America is the blown out whore of countries who brags how many dicks she's sucked and relationships she ruined.

I thought America had no culture retard? How can our culture die if it never existed?

He's 100% right, seething McBurger. All America is good for is spreading homo shit and consumerism.

If you think that's bad
You should see the Soviets in Afghanistan

Watch "The Vietnam War" on Netflix for full historical context of the war.

In short: Vietnamese didn't even believe much in communism. They just wanted freedom from occupation and slavery. They were more American than we were in that era. God bless you, Viet cong and north Vietnam!

Actual Vietnamese here. Most people back then didn't actually give a fuck about communism, they were mostly nationalists who used communism as a tool to unite the people to kick out the French and take back the country. Fuck, even American sent aid and advisers to help the early guerrilla force stab Frenchies in the butt. If not for the French butthurt, Vietnam would be reunited early and just fuck off to do its own thing, rebuilding the country and shit. But of course, American went full muh red terror and screwed up everything.
Fuck, even uncle Ho admired America and the first important person he came to ask for help was the USA president Wilson instead of the Reds. This war wouldn't happened if, you guess it, America didn't fuck things up.

Friendly reminder that you lost to people without tanks or airplanes

>America should have done X
>X is not a defensive war

America should have rolled up into vietnam, built infastructure around Pro-Democracy villages and towns, and cut off supplies for the Communists, starving them out and forcing THEM to destroy civilian targets and look the bad guys. You fight insurgents by turning them from matyrs into bandits.

America had a distinct culture until about the 1900's, then it decided to pollute itself down to appeal as a global superpower. It went from the world's workshop to the world's walmart.

America had culture until Woodrow Wilson decided America needed to be a globalist "Democracy"

The NLF was a COSVN front organization.
The real power was always the VWP.
PAVN was far more relevant to the outcome and actual unification.

They wanted to avoid a repeat of Korea where you have a big blemish like the North on the map, but they ended up losing completely.

Ah yes the super hell demon emu’s

What kind of political system do you believe North Vietnam had.

Well they did it the wrong way because they went into Vietnam exactly like they did Korea, right down to fucking over their allies plans and forgeting what logistics are in favour of trying out their new toys.

A very loosely communist one that could be weaned away from communism because they hated the Chinese? That's the entire point of why America lost HARD. You rolled into a country and blew shit up and expected people to like you for it. The exact fucking opposite of Japan.

AHEM
REMINDER CHINA INVADED VIETNAM RIGHT AFTER THE US LEFT BECAUSE CHINA WAS TRYING TO FORCE VIETNAM TO FUCK OFF FROM CAMBODIA
CHINA LOST MORE MEN IN A FEW WEEKS THAN THE US DID IN 6 SIX YEARS
THEY ALSO DID NOT ACHIEVE ANY OF THEIR OBJECTIVES AND STILL CLAIM THEY WON DESPITE GETTING PUSHED OUT OF VIETNAM

America came in to save your fucking asses while YOUR OWN PEOPLE went village to village raping and murdering the entire populace. I live in a town with a large population of vietnamese refugees that came here during vietnam war and they told me those northern commies would come and just fucking nanking entire towns for no fucking reason. Only when the USA showed up did they stop because they had something to fear and couldn't just stop and stay around raping and murdering all day

And nobody in the world agrees with China. Doesn't stop the fact the US tried the same strongarm tactics and failed too.

Because nobody cares about that malaria infested shithole and it really should have gotten nuked off the map.

Yeah but chinks literally go around Wikipedia and edit the outcome to save face
They did the same for the french qing war

the amount of crazy unforgivable stuff vietnam vets do on liveleak is sickening. these sorts of people deserve as much comfort as tax dollars can provide after what they've been turned into. otherwise they fucking break down and lash out indiscriminately. america had created monsters that are basically human pit bulls, though most have aged out of the ability to be harmful by now.
veterans of any war should be compensated heavily for their own stability and the sake of civilians.

Underrated post.

>Saving an oppressed people from a countrywide democratic election because you just don't like the guy who's winning
Sure XD

We only lost because we're the good guys. If we had bombed them or poisoned the jungles, we would've easily won. But instead of committing war crimes, we simply let them take the win.
Learn history, guys.

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Chinese military ops haven't been good since the era of Sun Tzu, but they did it to stick it to the Soviets more than that they had any actual objectives in Vietnam.

Like how the Soviets did in Eastern Europe?

Dude they wanted to just kill every nigger in the south that didn't agree with them and the soldiers didn't care about anything they just had fun and went full nanking.

>Man if we had just gone against every single moral code our civilization is based off of and butchered those people for little reason we'd have won in a small ideological war.

I can't imagine how sad it must be to not understand why Vietnam was a horrible fuckup for America and why instead of learning from this horrible case of stupidity the American public seems hell bent on trying to turn an ideological defeat in an ideological war into one where overwhelming firepower is somehow the goal.

Nobody cares how big the US military's dick is, if it can't find the fucking hole you're still retarded.

You are that desperate to make the interventionalism noble ain't you?

Oh god im so tired i thought it was a gif

China completely achieved their objectives during that. The fighting was always planned to last less than twenty days, so they withdrew on schedule. They devastated one of the few areas in Vietnam that had been left untouched by US air raids. China demonstrated the limits to the Soviet-Vietnamese military agreement, that the Soviet Union would not necessarily intervene if Vietnam found itself in conflict. They signaled to the west their commitment to opposing the Soviet Bloc, and that they would be a reliable economic and military partner, opening the way to arms sales. Internally, it helped Deng Xiaoping increase the political power of the reformist faction, enabling him to more completely enact the Four Modernizations.

AMERICA GOOD
VIETNAM BAD

How's the weather in Beijiing?

Imagine being a euro and still mad we saved western civilization

Wouldn't have been a meaningfully free or fair election on either side of the DMZ, especially when both sides had no qualms about violating the Geneva Accords.

>Still failed to wedge Vietnam out of Cambodia
Sure Wang

Imagine owning a house.
Then some fuck storms your house, attacks you and takes over the house.
The authorities won't help you take back the house, the cops won't help you take back the house.
So you take back the house by force and kick the fuck out of your house.
And then the authorities and other with power say that house belongs to said fucker and want you to hand over that house to the fucker.

He's talking about how China didn't fail their political agenda. Which is correct, America failed theirs hard.

That's not winning, that's genocide.

True, they actually stomped the Vietnamese pretty bad, but it was conventional warfare with none of the hearts and minds shit. If the US had done that the war might've been won.

>A very loosely communist one that could be weaned away from communism
The Single Party state had already been mostly consolidated by 1954's land reform campaign. The system wasn't going anywhere, let alone in a liberalizing direction, particularly after Le Duan's faction gained ascendancy.

Nice video games discussion you have here.

>the loss was all political for them.
Guess why America went there in the first place retard

Land reform was never a bad thing, you know that most of the land was owned by the Chinese Vietnamese, right? The US never understood how to play ethnics against each other, probably because they couldn't tell them apart.

Don't worry you'll be able to fight for your Saudi masters in a bit LOL

That wasn't the objective.
China supported the Khmer Rouge, but had been heavily critical of their domestic policies, to the point where Deng Xiaoping asked Norodom Sihanouk to lead a coup, but Sihanouk refused. The loss of power of the Khmer Rouge was then not necessarily a bad thing, especially as their insurgency tied up Vietnam's forces and scarce resources, and made Vietnam a pariah country. The Cambodian War also forced the Soviet Union to send more aid to Vietnam, which added to the strains the Soviet economy was experiencing. Many feared Vietnam was attempting to establish hegemony in Southeast Asia (which it basically was), driving ASEAN closer to China. The war also became one of the factors keeping Vietnam from normalizing relations with the US and the west.

>win the battle
>lose the war

Good job burgers.

>win match for your team
>GGs are had, leave lobby
>while you're gone, your team loses without you 30 minutes later
>this is your loss somehow

>What happened is that America was in a good position

Uh no, their were literal riots and mutinies in the Marine Corp between 1970-1972.

Nixon got elected in 1968, and declared the USA would leave Vietnam, but wasn't able to get a peace signed until late 1972. From 1968 onwards the USA was fighting a war which its own government stated it was not even trying to win.

Cool narrative bro, here's what actually happen :
the US completely failed at fighting the uprising and was forced into a defensive position where they did sit tight and "won every engagement" while the commies where runnign wild

As the war drag out and zero (0) results are being made, the public no longer support it, and the retreat is ordered

We have a bunch of chink shills in this thread I see.

动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

Keep going.

>France begged for help
France was gone since 1954 you stupid nigger
The US went there on their own volition to defend their own interests

Were the students in Tiananmen Square asking for democracy or more communism?

More communism.
Deng Xiaoping was based.

Soviets gave the vietnamese jets and tanks retard.

They were asking for it

KEK

Because the war was about defending South Vietnam and not invading North Vietnam.

Do mods answer to China now?

Yes, the burgers did win. If their like overlords win, it counts for them.

Is that why Hitler lost? Because you let the kikes Manipulate you?

>Rage quit just before total defeat.
>Years later keep insist it as I didn't loss I just quit.

China won the Vietnam War and its aftermath. They helped to fully eject the Americans from Indochina without deploying anything more than support and anti-aircraft units, while greatly weakening Vietnam in the process. The pro-China Khmer Rouge came to power in Cambodia, then Vietnam an heroed its international reputation by removing them and installing a puppet government, ensuring that it would receive no diplomatic normalization or trading agreements or aid from the west. The resulting war simultaneously drained the resources of Vietnam and the Soviet Union, while drawing China, ASEAN and the US closer together. This enabled weapons sales and the beginnings of trade agreements and FDI, and boosted the opening up of China to the world economy. All this is in addition to the political goals achieved by the People's Liberation Army's direct intervention in February 1979.

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Unironically based bugeyes. FUCK MUTTS.

Why are aussie troops so based?

>It was the juice.

because you were pussies and afraid of china

Supposedly Viets are somewhat pro-American. Some Viet on /int/ was seething about it.

I live in Vietnam and every peoples committee office has loads of American captured vehicles as war trophies out on their front lawn

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Why do Americans talk about KDR when the kill rate of the NVA was much better when you take into account both US soldiers, US allies, and destroyed/captured US equipment

American pumped billions into this black hole and achieved nothing but turmoil back home
The North fought hard, killed LOADS and won the war

America was losing the war from the get go and never had a hope of winning
After the assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem by Kennedy and the CIA this was sealed.

Afterwards was decades of wasted lives, time and money

An invasion of the North would have been an absolute disaster
Even bigger embarrassment than Dien Bien Phu and it probably would have destroyed all American confidence thereafter

friendly reminder this is hot bullshit sold by americans trying to save face-water and alot of american officers and generals, including John McCain disputed this and said it was a flat lie.

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If there were fair elections as Roosevelt has promised, Ho Chi Minh would have won easily and over half a century of war could have been avoided

Instead Truman betrayed them and allowed the french to move back in and brutalize the country as a sort of petty revenge due to being butthurt nazi collaborationists

Attached: vietnamese aces.png (684x577, 65K)

The people making those claims are traitors and commies, who cares what they think they should be shot.

>Friendly reminder that American won every major engagement in Vietnam.

Yeah and the British won the majority of battles in the Revolutionary war. What's your point?

t. seething mclard
your marines are literally fertilising vietnamese soil as we speak, that is the ones the CIA didn't gut and use to smuggle opium and crack to the US

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I mean obviously things turned out alright for china bt this is a BIG reach to claim all these things were their initial goals and not just beneficial side effects of their failure.
Its was absolutely a victory for Vietnam but a Pyrrhic one

Yes, but the objective was for SOUTH VIETNAM to win, not us. It was a political issue. South Vietnam literally stated shit like "America, defender of freedom and police of the world, please come save us from these tyrants." So, we realized "holy shit we're literally the heroes of Earth" and went over there to kill literally every commie.
The problem is all the North Vietnamese still didn't want to change their government, and even South Vietnamese were being convinced to be commies so attacks that were impossible to circumvent happened in ally territories. The SK's gave up and told the US the war is lost, and to save as many SK civilians as possible and send them to the US/EU as refugees. The US did so until Operation Frequent Wind which evacuated every last child they could while thousands of adults got left behind with the US ground forces to defend them because there were simply not enough helicopters, then once evacuation was over they IMMEDIATELY defeated the commies who everyone was running from just like literally every other engagement the US was in. The war was then over, and this is why we have so many Vietnamese people in Europe and the US to this day.

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>when you invade farmers with no tech and use chemicals, strategic bombers, carriers and naplam against them but end up losing 10,000 planes and having to gradually pull out troops and reduce your frontline presence because even on the ground your soldiers are getting BTFO so you rotate your entire army to the reserve and train thousands of other vietnamese and give them old WW2 leftovers and send them to man the frontlines so you can have someone to blame when you bail out

who the fuck counts equipment as part of a KDR ratio? fucking retard

Seeing as you just made complete sentences, you would be one of the first to go. That is the level of intellectual purging the other user is talking about.

>BTFO frenchoids and make baguettes out of their bodies
>BTFO amerinsectoids and flay them alive
>BTFO chinksectoids & (american backed) khmer rouge
why are we so based

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vietnamese and afghanis are the most powerful races on earth

Cause they live in Hell and their culture is designed to mock Hell.

>no tech
The NVA at least had lots of tech, good logistics, and highly skilled commanders including arguably one of the best from the 20th century Vo Nguyen Giap

American commanders like Westmoreland were a joke, and the soldiers were famously retarded (McNamaras choice to send low-IQ troops)
Only the middle ranks had some quality soldiers but the level of disobedience was incredibly high with things like fragging

Well Northerners killed more enemy solders than the US alliance did

hahaha
America is a joke
America is homosexual and eat shit!
DIrty dog America trash

A Smash thread died for this.

I was annoyed with this thread existing until you mentioned this. Keep it going, lads.

Humanity isn't technologically advanced enough to fight guerrillas. You protect the exact same civilians who blow you up the next day. There's 0 distinguish between who's ally and who's foe, and it doesn't matter if you kill 100,000 people. Every country in the world consists of dozens of millions. Only a country can save itself from internal conflicts. No one else can do so unless EVERY citizen is treated like an enemy which is the case for total war where after you win, you police their citizens and submit your will upon them.

>american backed Khmer Rouge
Did not happen. Before seizing power, the Khmer Rouge were supported by China, the USSR and North Vietnam (and fought alongside the PAVN). After the seizure, they were supported by China. After being deposed, they were directly supported by China, though Thailand allowed the Khmer Rouge to use its territory for shelter. US did not meaningfully directly support them.
>BTFO chinksectoids and khmer rouge
About as many Vietnamese died in Cambodia as Americans had died in the Vietnam War.

Lying about the state and whats wrong with it is exactly what commies and traitors do. So the only traitor commie here is you.

Proofs?
By official Vietnamese count, around a million PAVN/NLF fighters were killed.

The biggest risk in that is the potential of pulling in China.

All Vietnam ever wanted was to be united, independent and sovereign
We fought hard and finally achieved it.
Now we can meet the world on our own terms, rather than as just some puppet state neo-colony.

So what if there are a dozen McDonalds here, how many Pho, Viet-fusion, or other Vietnamese restaurants are there in the USA?

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the actual point of the middle east is to encircle Iran and block the Iran Iraq pipeline from competing with Saudi Arabian interests, along the way the US military gets to create demand for Lockheed and test out new ways of pacifying irate populations.

There have been plenty of successful counterinsurgencies.
Look up the Malayan Emergency.

Don't fuck with farmers.
Don't kill people's families.
Don't invade with the goal of mass occupation.
Don't count on draftees.
Don't count on drug addicts.
Don't count on the enemy withering to your superiority.
Don't count on somehow pulling through without a clear timeline full of goals each with a contingency.

Follow these simple rules and you can avoid joining history's list of massive cluster fuck failed invasions.

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Over a million casualties from the US-ARVN, and allies

>we can meet the world on our own terms
Reminder that the Socialist Republic of Vietnam accomplished effectively none of its postwar goals save overthrowing the Khmer Rouge, and basically wasted the period from 1975 to 1995.

The vietnam war happened because the French were too incompetent to contain a minor insurgency properly.

What is does actual historical accuracy mean, though?

>is now one of the shittiest countries in SEA
congrats.

>don't fuck with farmers
>don't kill people's families
Targeted assassinations and reprisals can work (was a favored NLF tactic from the fifties through the seventies), but only if they're discriminate and directly traceable to some action or fault of the victims.

Add
>Don't invade a cold country in their winter
>Don't invade a hot country in their summer

Everybody makes mistakes
Vietnam had its own Vietnam in Cambodia
Things are better now

>All Vietnam ever wanted was to be united, independent and sovereign
Have a good friend whose parents fled from Vietnam
My mothers comes from yugoslavia and I was just recently reading/watching documentaries about the yugo wars and talked with him about it, because he was doing the same with Nam

For real, all the vietnamese people ever wanted was to be farmers and to be left alone

>Socialist Republic of Vietnam accomplished effectively none of its postwar goals save overthrowing the Khmer Rouge
>waging a war of independence and accomplishing that goal doesn't count accomplishing the single biggest goal they had, no less a goal period
ishygddt

>"POSTWAR"
Rebuilding your fucked up country is as important as winning it back.

9/11 game when?

And yet they still failed to stop communism

>>"POSTWAR"
>independence is a goal that ends immediately when the initial conflict does

I think vietdoom looks interesting, it's a doom mod with fire that spreads, building destruction (only on wooden buildings) and drivable tanks. Not sure when it is coming out though

>inb4 they started it

it ain't me starts playing
cope amerishart

They declared the war off because the let the public turn against it, they lost on the home front

>Yea Forums - Video Games tries to be about video games
>It's not
why do jannies continue to fuck this up?

I never got to finish it because my parents took it away when they realized it had lots of swearing, I have been meaning to go back and replay it

Yeah, they very nearly fucked up keeping things together after the war.
Can you not read?

Western schools tend to do a pretty shit job of teaching history, it's not even a purely american problem

They are still independent. Saying they could have or should have done anything else doesn't matter when the point of everything was independence.

Not that user, but the SRV wanted normalization with America and the west so they could get access to reconstruction aid, limited investments (like offshore oil) and western technology, and to avoid undue dependence upon the Soviet Union. That didn't happen, so their economic and military policy ended up highly dependent upon whatever aid the Soviet Union was willing to give, which was often both insufficient and coming with strings attached. Vietnam thus joined COMECON and gave the Soviet Union usage rights to the abandoned American naval base at Cam Ranh, neither of which it wanted to do. They also hadn't intended for the Cambodian invasion to make them international pariahs. If anything, Vietnam's freedom of movement was far more constrained after the war.

We just are
Although our military has been getting hurt a bit lately by hiring for gender ratios rather than talent

The point of everything wasn't independence.
The point was the control of the Vietnam Workers' Party/Vietnam Communist Party, and more specifically, the control of Le Duan's faction, over everything. That's why internally, things like the Rectification of Errors Campaign and the Revisionist Anti-Party affair occurred. It's why the DRV and SRV featured and continue to feature an aggressive monopoly on power.

Don't the Southern forces tend to win in RS2: Vietnam?

exact opposite.

I would say the main pattern is that attacks win slightly more than they lose

>a win for joos is a win for YOU, goy!

>attacks
*attackers

Based and sweatshop- pilled

>Everyone saying America lost because after we left, Vietnam is communist
>You can now get Starbucks and McDonalds in Vietnam
The Vietnam War outcomes are not binary "win-lose". To say that no objective of America was fulfilled is a lie, even though Vietnam did turn communist.

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>mention Vietnam war
>amerimutts go full SEETHING
Poetry

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Communism collapsed on it's own, it would have happened with or without america

What are some games where Vietnam invaded America?

Homefront has koreans invading, and they basically look the same

Everyone knows vietnam was just a testing ground for new weapons systems, right? they shelled out 100s of experimental weapons to frontline troops and when the ran out of experimental weapons the war ended.
also the reasons the vietnamwar started was completely fabricated by the US goverment

Hearts of Iron IV

I have, plus his Civil War one. It was great

How do you even invade a country whose a single state is bigger than your entire country several times?

>Just like they're winning in the middle east today, amarite?

Afghanistan is currently a puppet dictatorship, and took about a month to take over, with minor resistance against armed forces. Iraq took what, two weeks? To lose all major combat potential. The US wins its wars very fast and very easily, but it doesn't just murder everyone that could possibly rebel the way armies are actually supposed too, sot hey always rebel.

America is that kid who picks of enemies on the sidelines but never plays the objective or even gets close to it, then boasts about his useless KDA in the post game lobby while blaming his team

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next level mental gymnastics
"yeah we got BTFO militarily, but here look mcdunks opened in ho chi minh city 40 years later! we won!!!!"
the absolute state of mcgoblins

Why do people even get upset about mcdonalds being unhealthy while never calling out starbucks on being far far worse for you than maccas could ever hope to do

In games, snowballing.
youtube.com/watch?v=EONs2_vYfQ8
IRL, Jurchens and the conquest of the Ming, imperialism.

America probably wouldn't have to deal with rebels so much if they didn't keep pissing off the locals with air strikes that kill civilians

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War
Soviets had to deal with the same shit. It's just bad apples.

How did anything the US did during the war lead to that outcome?
If you have to resort to indirect effects upon events decades in the future, you lost.

do people actually believe america lost in vietnam? they must be a special kind of retard

>the peace accords were a farce that let america retreat a losing war with some semblance of dignity left.
kek, america literally bombed NV to the table there and then watergate went and fucked it all up

>Everyone saying France lost because after they left, Alsace-Lorraine is German
>It's now French
The Franco-Prussian War outcomes are not binary "win-lose". To say that no objective of France was fulfilled is a lie, even though Alsace-Lorraine did turn German.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory

>if this one shithole turns red then surely the rest will turn red too
Is Domino one of the most retarded theories?

America could have won if the just genocided everyone but its almost impossible to occupy a foreign country without Guerilla fighters and resistance left to fuck you up especially in a difficult terrain and jungle is one of the hardest terrains to fight in

You'd be pro-American too if your neighbor was China.