World of Warcraft Classic

>streamer gets butthurt about not being treated like a god in beta
>inbetween seething rants says there should be realms only for streamers and their fans
yes i agree, that's very reasonable. permanently quarantine them from the rest of the game.

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u mad?

Half of those are objective lies, the other only apply to absolute poopsockers. Cry harder, retailcucks.

>hitting 60 without doing your class quests
I mean, I know people that did that but to blame the game for that is beyond asinine

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>Classic raids are very hard
I don't know anyone who said this
>Old talent trees are better than the current ones
They unironically are
>It's about the journey, not the race to 60
This is true
>Classic incentivizes player interaction, so everyone will suddenly become sociable and make friends
This is true too. What kind of joyless antisocial faggot is the OP? Everyone is talking to each other and having a good time. Even just when grouping up for quests, people always make small talk about their lives or how they're liking the game, etc.
>Getting into a dungeon group won't be a problem because there's no ilvl, r.io, achievements and armory.
This is true. You don't have to play with meta shitters. Making your own group is incredibly easy to do
>Class quests, the holy grail of class fantasy
I mean they do add a lot of flavor to each class and I think this guy is assmad because he's so used to be carried by modern games that he forgot to talk to his class trainers or do any kind of exploration
>Classic is a great game for casuals, much better than modern WoW
This is true if you want to play it casually. You get what you want out of the game.

So why are people so triggered by classic doing well? It's hardly a surprise, nostalrius had over a million players

>They unironically are
they aren't, there are more choices on retail and they affect your gameplay, talents on classic are fillers with 2 actual talents

>Affect your gameplay
If by "gameplay" you mean pressing 4 instead of 5 every X seconds, you're right

Still a greater change to the gameplay than "X skill gets 1/2/3/4/5% more damage".

they're situational depending on the fight or what you're doing
on classic there's a pve spec and pvp spec and that's it
like rogue's level 60 talent is a survavibility talent, you can choose to either have a cheat death, a poison that heals you or a damage reduction on feint

offer your words of atonement.

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Yeah, and situationally you press 4 instead of 5. Amazing gameplay, it's worth sacrificing the quality of the class design so that you have that freedom

what do you mean by "quality of the class design"?

The classes had far more quality with the Classic talent trees, all of them are 100% exactly the same in retial.

>what went wrong
It was classic wow
A game that was made by a group of devs who didn't know how to make a mmo, and when they did, it was "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" and considered a babby game by all other major mmos

>lots of boxes to click on but little choice is better than fewer boxes but more choices

Because they're afraid it'll take away from retail.

I paid billions of dollars for the expansion packs and spent 100 years of solitude playing through them. Classic invalidates all of my hard work and I can't let people enjoy it.

Exactly. You got rewarded every single level in Vanilla with far greater effects for your character. In retail you only get rewarded every 15 levels and it's a minuscule effect.

Other "major" mmo's" must be SEETHING right now.

>+1% damage on spell has a greater effect than an actual spell or passive that changes your gameplay

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wow was, and still is, one of the most babby popular games around

I'm looking for a chill server to reroll on because of this. All the super high pop ones seem to all be tryhards racing for 60/gear.

Yes, it does. There are no +damage to your abilities in retail.

Oh look you're already seething. Success breeds envy.

It's doesn't change your gameplay though, it just changes the order your rotation goes in, which is not really gameplay at all in an RPG

>implying you get a new spell/passive and change your gameplay every level in retail

I want zoomers to go

literal delusion

?
I used to play wow and got incredibly bored with it my dude

because that's not needed, the +damage are baseline, you don't have to click a box to get it

>Every 15 levels you get a call of duty perk
>This is good gameplay
Lol

Raids have never been hard, the difficulty has always been being able to gather good players
I don't remember the talent trees but no options because resets cost a lot is a fucking retarded argument
It's about the journey but retards can race if they want
Nobody forces you to do the class quest when you aren't high enough level to do it, the quest level doesn't matter
Everything else is just bitching about the current player population being selfish assholes

id rather have a spell/passive that change my gameplay every 15 levels than 58 levels of filler talents + 2 talents that changes your gameplay

literal delusion

Then you're not making a choice, you are not building a character

Why are you here trying to attack it? Do you work for Jagex or something?

>implying you are making a choice when you just copy-pasted that one meta build from a website

If that's what you consider attacking then I think you might be a little too emotionally invested in it

Guy sounds like a dumbass desu senpai.

You're the one coming into threads about games you don't supposedly like enough to play. Why would you do this? Could it be you're driven by a deep hatred of all things good and wholesome in this world?

I'm on a medium pop realm and it isn't any better. That fucking mage AOE instance farming shit is all over the place.

It's impossible to tell if these claims are true because he just says "it's broken" or "it's outdated" or "it's just not good." Relatively little justification is given.

>Classic raids are very hard
they're not as easy as neckbeards who run the content 24/7 grinding on pservers like APES make it out to be, definitely not complex like mordern mythics raids but still decent content and i dont think the appeal has ever been the difficulty of raids, keep in mind this is the naxx patch so early raids are easier.

>Old talent trees are better than the current ones
theres options, and people just arent used to 5% dmg increases being relevant because people like seeing 1000% better its more appealing to casuals

>It's about the journey, not the race to 60
stop watching twitch streams and focusing on races to 60, they do the mind numbing tactics to reach 60 as soon as possible like they're trying to prove something, enjoy the game at your own pace, its fun

>Classic incentivizes player interaction, so everyone will suddenly become sociable and make friends
i mean you have to make the effort on your part, ive made many a friends in quests zone who ill see later, in retail i just que up and move on, i actually remember players names and interactions ive had with people in my server

>Getting into a dungeon group won't be a problem because there's no ilvl, r.io, achievements and armory.
im playing ret paladin and everyone has the notion that theyre utter garabge and have the worst reputation, yet i still find groups and new people to play with all the time ive met people who genuinely like playing with me, imagine retail raiding with the perceived worst class in the game it would never happen unless you play in LFR/LFG

>Class quests, the holy grail of class fantasy
they are fun helping my buddies do their hard quests to get a great item that will help them level on their own is great,

>Classic is a great game for casuals, much better than modern WoW
i mean to each his own i dont flame people for what they enjoy its

Well he's not wrong about the content. Even the streamers are just repeating content they cleared last week now, or turning to world PvP. I don't get what they expect people to do for however many months until the rest of the content is released.

Be honest, you've layer switched for your own benefit before, haven't you? I only do it when the game forces me when I join a group for dungeouns. It disgusts me to see my friends do it just to get more loot and respawns on quest mobs.

The modern talent trees are absolute dog shit.
Every choice boils down to "am i doing X amount of AoE, then take this talent". Or "do I need to do more burst than that talent".

There literally isn't choice. The game SOLVES ITSELF FOR YOU.

Classic talent trees are also dogshit, but they were never meant to add functionality to a class, but emphasize strengths/shore up weakness of any given part of a character.

In classic, a Shaman, is a Shaman, it does what a shaman does, regardless of whatever stupid build that player goes.

The difference between Shamans then becomes which any individual shaman specializes in.

Better Windfury/Str/Agi totems for the melee? Mana-Tide for the casters? Doing something resembling damage after the content in on easyfarm mode?

Classic talent trees change your lean, not your gameplay.

An MMO doet not need 30+ "classes" like the modern WoW does.

Every point you're addressing is debatable, and i agree with some of the ones you listed, except the talent one. I will preface, i liked the old talent system, but it is absolutely not better. How it works in practice is that you use a build for levelling and then you respec at max level to what your meta build is, with very little or straight up no room for preference. In retail's system, even super high end world first guides by proven and established groups/players will have parts on the talents section of their guide that says "pick what you prefer" because the talents in a particular bracket can viably compete with each other. There are exceptions of course (for example, as of right now, you take Unholy Frenzy as Unholy DK no matter what build you use) but they are a minority

obviously someone who still plays retail isnt going to enjoy classic.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa why are trash pandas so cute

Shit game with shit design and even shittier content formula they've reused for the third time. Enjoy your endless tomestone grind and shit DDR boss fights, retard

>classic was never hard
>old talent trees are better
>leveling is fun
>I add people to my friends list from dungeons all the time it's the best way to avoid begging for a tank if you don't play one
>I haven't had a single "meta" group yet
>literal nonsense point how are you calling something antiquated while also crying that you missed out
>already contradicting itself on point you can't say classic is easy then say actually classic is bad for casuals because it's hard
Go kill yourself

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I read the op image and threw in my 2cents as to why I agree with him
This thread is more or less about disliking the game and has people discussing both sides
Do you just want to live in an echo chamber?

keep seething

>your endless gear grind is shit MY endless gear grind is obviously the only good endless gear grind

I just don't understand why you choose to engage with things you don't like instead of things you do like. I don't go to bars and tell people that sports suck.

Why would i be seething when you're the one gettng fucked in the ass by yoshi literally bi-monthly?

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>pick what ever you prefer
so the talents dont matter in retail? how is that better? less choices and they dont matter.

BC had much better talents than vanilla. you didnt have to use a cookie cutter build, a lot of people did because they were lazy or afraid to experiment or had no desire to theory craft.

Quote where i defended another game's gear grind

Kill yourself retard

>so the talents dont matter in retail?

The whole thing literally went right over your head. No idiot, it's preference because they allow you to approach dps and resource management in different situations

Maybe I wanted to discuss it?
The person who originally replied to me clearly didn't, and just spouted "seething" memes and claimed I attacked his game
Again, this thread was clearly about discussing classic wow and why it (implied by op) wasn't good, but apparently no one else wants to discuss it

that image is bait

>implying there aren't enough options for talent builds in Classic
Play a druid and then try saying that.

point 7 is the dumbest shit ever. questing only requires you to have basic reading comprehension and the desire to adventure.

>they're situational depending on the fight or what you're doing
what, that isnt true at all in retail LMAO
your talents literally do not matter for the way you fight or do anything. you can complete any content with any talent combination it literally does not matter.

Druid only has 1 build, resto.

Like I said, you can put everything back to the way it was, but you can't bring back the times.

Oh so you hate WoW too then? Why are you in this thread then?

druid only has more options because they can do everything, melee, ranged, heal, tank

But you are absolutely seething though
>other mmo's think wow is a babby game
>other mmo's completely BTFO by wow's subscriber count
This is why you're upset. But why does it make you upset?

oh so like its an illusion of choice. like how in mass effect you can choose what color explosion you see at the end. got it

The only people I see getting burned out are private server players who poopsocked and got disappointed at how easier the endgame was.

It doesn't make me upset though, you're just saying it is so you can shitpost and meme like an idiot

>t. LFR baby

Yeah. This is muh safespace only for people that love WoW. Please dont bully us, superior MMO chads.

Oh so you're an FF tranny? Why are you in this thread then?

Old talent system is also illusion of choice then, according to you, so sure, why not

But I thought Blizz doesnt post their sub count anymore?

But why are you so jelly tho? It's not like you've got any stakes in these other companies...
Do you?

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in classic i can choose a bad spec, you cant do that in retail. everyone has to be a winner.

>continues claiming I'm to meme like an idiot
What's there to be jealous of? In the end it's just a video game

>you cant do that in retail
why not?

Maybe it's an illusion of choice, but it's not an illusion of an RPG

>I can choose a bad spec

hmmm made me ponder

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Then why do you hate it so much bro?

>if I don't have to click on a box to add +1% damage, it's a bad video game

Because there are no choices

Because people can see your spec and call you out on it. In classic you can just say you are using the optimal spec and they wont be able to tell you are lying.

because your choices dont matter

SOUL vs soulless

>People are forcing the spellcleave meme all the way up to lbrs

This isn't fun.

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Why can't you argue properly? You're embarrassing yourself

doesnt happen on my server.

Just roll mage. It's basically the only dps spec in the game anyways.

There's heaps of non spellcleave groups anyway. The biggest concern the game has is layering

I disliked it because it was shallow and uninteresting to me

>your choices don't matter so you can't use a bad spec
really makes me think

>class quests are skippable
This retard doesn't know that shamans have to do theirs in order to get their totems.

This is retarded. It's like saying that all that mages can do is cast Frostbolt. Is it the default rotation for raids - yes - but sometimes THINGS happen that mean you have to actually use your skills. Like dispelling and shit.

Unlike BFA where you're given so much time to run your rotations that you need in-depth guides like posted.

BFA kiddies and FF14 trannies who are shittershattered because they got BTFO by a 15 year old game

Yeah, basically. You have all options available to you. You can change at any time.

>y-you're embarassing yourself
I'm sure you are more than me by babbling shit about a game you dont even play
I know what I'm talking about, you don't

And yet here you are, your life utterly consumed by it.

so why can't I use a bad spec if I have all options available?

You're just strawmanning over and over lol, give up

Ahem
FUCK MAGES

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that's not a realm problem, that's just a problem with the competitive mindset of people in videogames nowadays. People don't play games to chill anymore.

>nooooooo retail is a bad bideo game
>old good
>new bad
cope fucking retard
try playing the games you talk shit about first

Fucking mages

lol someone saved my screenscap. good job op. its an image that will forever trigger classicbabs.

I've argued with you (and probably other anons) more than I've discussed the game in this thread so far, and this is the first wow thread I've posted in for months
So gonna have to disagree there

Why does Classic make people like this so mega butthurt? It's almost like it threatens them?

because people were talking about classic for months like it was the second coming of jesus

Not a day passes by without you thinking about WoW and how everyone who can afford to pay for a subscription is a babby. This thought comforts you on those cold nights under the bridge.

but it's a nice bridge, user. He as wifi access.

You seem quite imaginative, so I doubt you're severely autistic
Have you considering writing more meaningful stuff?

Ugh, I also hate it when people are excited for something Bah Humbug!

not that user but shut the fuck up you stupid nigger

Probably leeching off of the wifi in the toll-booth

>Old talent trees are better than the current ones
>They unironically are
No. They 100% aren't. With neo wow trees you get 2-3 passives, 1-2 mobillity changers, 1 ultimate, and 2-3 new abilities. All these which can be switched out to change your gameplay for single target, pvp, or aoe. This isn't to say that neo blizzard is perfect (or quite frankly good even) and some of these talents aren't worthless and some of these trees don't suck, but its 10000% better than classic which is a bunch of passives/stat improvements and a max of 3 new abilities for every single class.

classic only does one thing and only thing only right. It forces you to interact with other players and is more community driven than retail. In LITERALLY every other regard, retail wow is better than classic.

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its not even excitement
most were just trying to fit in by saying vanilla was the best thing ever even if they never played it before

>6
>They are skippable and hard and skippable
What a faggot.

Because your talents don't determine your spec.

>new talents are more interesting
He's right in that each tree gives you 4/5 interesting abilities, but he's ignoring that you can branch out into different trees. You aren't locked into one tree, so while there's a few talents that just increase your stats, or increase X by Y% damage, you combo them together to make them interesting.

Meanwhile, new talents are boring as shit, and while you have the same amount of "good" choices, ignoring that there's usually one obvious choice, or three equally non-impacting choices, there's not only no constant sense of progression, and your character feels the same as every other character.

For example, I'm leveling a Paladin, and usually heal. Alongside my healing talents, I also invested points into things that help out my buffs - such as Blessing of Wisdom, the LoH buff, and so on. If someone were to do a more offensive loadout, they could put points, instead, into the Seal of Judgement talent which increases it's damage and reduces MP.

classic.wowhead.com/news=295075/classic-wow-realm-population-report-data-aggregated-through-community

Say it with me

FOUR
MILLIONS
PLAYERS
AND GROWING

meanwhile retail cucks are likely under 200k worldwide.

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EVERYONE GETS MOBILITY SCOOTERS
EVERYONE GET ALL THE TOOLS THEY EVERONE IS THE SAME

you have different talents depending on your spec

class homogenization isn't good, i never said that. I did say however that having more than 2 abilities is good. Spamming frostbolt over and over again until the keybind on your keyboard is worn out isn't good gameplay.

You are a fuck huge retard, all those "switching out" are all spells that were already part of the classes pre cata and that have been slowly ripped apart from them for no reason at all.

Meanwhile the other user has been actively and purposely derailing/detracting

>EVERYONE GET ALL THE TOOLS THEY EVERONE IS THE SAME
cope

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>4 million characters

Come on now man.

Lmao I fucking called it
>Layering will be turned off after phase 1
Bet they won't do this anymore. Enjoy being stuck with layering forever because blizzard are useless retards and cornered themselves

Except that's not all the gameplay there is, you cherry picking so-and-so

Image being this wrong.
Image being an OP and being this wrong

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I got filtered, the game is too boring. The overworld mattering, WPVP, and community-driven experience got lost in TBC/Wrath, and that's a crying shame, but TBC/Wrath classes were just so much more fun to play. That's probably why subs kept growing past Classic all the way to Ulduar despite the core aspects of the game getting butchered. If Classic+ ever becomes a thing the first thing that needs to be prioritized is putting back in the fun spells that both retail and classic took away and actually start balancing the classes, starting with the fucking mages.

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
COME PLAY RETAIL WITH ME
JUST TURN OFF THE CLASSIC SERVERS BLIZZARD
DO IT NOW

imagine having no arguments but still posting because you're buttblasted

>Unique slow prevention form
Come on my dude, be serious

>another retail tranny cope thread
classic hasn't even started to begin to die off yet and everyone I've seen and all of my friends playing are having a blast with it

Playing Classic is the same as a woman who escaped an abusive wife-beating relationship returning to the wife beater, asking for the good old days. I never understood why people thought it would be good when all of the magic has long since been done, and it will NEVER be like it was in the past.

Retail fags need to understand it's not an argument about classic vs retail, it's about the WoW that should be vs just not playing WoW or paying any attention to it ever again. If Classic didn't exist, retail will not just magically regain all those players. They will just simply continue not giving a shit about WoW. And here's the thing, Classic does not impact your retail experience. You and your realms are not being replaced, so stop being fags that someone else having fun while you guys are bleeding out.

most of my guild have already come back to retail and there wasn't even a content update

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i mean nobody talks in 'blizzard' games anymore cause they might just ban you for saying gg ez

what a load of crap

Literally retarded.
THINGS happen as much in one mythic retail raid fight as an entire fucking classic raid. Classic is braindead easy and no level of mental gymnastics can overcome that fact.
>1 button rotations
>1 mechanic (tops) boss fights
>2/3 of specs are completely unviable
But yeah because you have to interrupt your 200th frostbolt in a row to cast dispel I guess classic is peak difficulty

>"4 million characters"
>2 million characters in USA.
>2 million characters made in EU.
Since when is "characters" made a metric that people gloated about? especially in a game that allows you to make multiple characters which can make it seem like over half of that number is just Alts. Also how is 2 million a good number? I've seen mobile titles with more then that.

why won't they stop playing classic bros...
i'm the only one logging in on my guild in bfa..
fuck blizzard pandering to nostalgia

Serious question
How are the waiting queues?

oh and classic has more gameplay than retail? Tell me what more is there to do in classic than retail?

Before you put up a strawman argument I'm not saying that these things in retail are good, im just saying there is more than classic since you accused me of cherry picking.
>retail:
island exps
normal dungeons
heroic dungeons
m+
lfrraids
normal raids
heroic raids
mythic raids
arenas
bgs
rbgs
bg events
expanded holiday events
pet battles
mini games (like the fight club thing)
wpvp
dailies
professions
mount collecting
transmog collecting
pet collecting
timewalker events

>classic:
dungens
raids
wpvp
bgs
mount collecting

So tell me again how classic has more gameplay than retail? I'm not saying retail is a good game, i personally prefered wotlk and mop, but classic is so basic and bland compared to retail.

forgot to add professions to classic. since yea professions are more important in classic than they are in retail.

Nothing went wrong really in fact everything comes along nicely. I fell for the warrior meme and at first i was pretty sad tbut now at lvl 38 with monastery gear comming out of my ass, with a 5sec cd interrrupt and one on my other stance for when i need it and w8th whirleind online i am a fucking dps god. I can spam instances at my leasure or farm mobs for days and everyone wants to be my friend. Girls drop thheir panties whrn they see my herod loottable and guyd get boners admytinh my sm set. Life is good now. 5o all the warriors below lvl 37 i say keep going bros it will all get better soon.

>splits raiding into 4 entries and dungeons into 3 to bloat out the list
>lists shit like island exps that are just glorified dungeons
>splits bgs into 3
>unironically lists pet battles
>lists FUCKING PROFESSIONS as a retail pro but not as a classic one when they're way more useful in classic
(you)

How can people even argue retail WoW is a good game when they keep losing people?

>mount collecting
>transmog collecting
walking into old instances and mashing aoe is gameplay?

I mean that's what they're doing in classic too.

SPELLCLEAVE
SPELLCLEAVE
AOE FARM
CLEAVE SPAM

>Tell me what more is there to do in classic than retail?

Well in classic you can have fun and in retail you don't

As a group ;^)

You think you have fun, but you dont.

unironically this.
Spaming frostbolt to a boss that has 1 mechanic isnt fun. Grinding a bunch of boring mobs for something retarded like attunement isnt fun.

This desu, I went to a spot to grind mobs and three mages were just jumping around aoe farming all the fucking mobs. So fucking annoying, my buddy who plays a priest now runs into their packs of mobs and psychic screams so they all scatter lol. Also if you are in a dungeon and you take nodes without rolling you are a super nigger.

>pressing one button bad
>pressing many buttons good

>speak truth
>have your 1st amendment rights taken away

wtf blizzard!?

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2 million for a 15 year old version of a pay to play game that's been on the decline for a decade is pretty good.

1. no proof that's you
2. 1st amendment doesn't apply to private spaces/communication and does not mean freedom of consequence

free speech implies freedom of consequence dumbass.

>can't contain your autism to Yea Forums

Vanilla talent trees aren't perfect but they're much better than shitty retail.

Talent trees peaked in TBC

who expected classic to be the perfect mmo?
if it had been nothing would ever have been changed.
the problem is that mmos in general, including retail, headed into the wrong direction which makes people crave a different time with different potential.
in my opinion it's bad game design if the game plays itself for you. rpgs should have elements of exploration and the possibility to build your character in an imberfect way or miss out on things because you didn't invest yourself into the game.
of course you have to be able to undo your mistakes.

many of you complain about elements of the game saying it wouldn't be good gameplay.
what is good gameplay?
to answer that you first need to know what playing the game is, is it exploration? is it roleplaying? is it just another way to verify your gaming abilities by being the first to get certain equipment or reach max lvl?
is it playing your role in a party with friends to experience fantasy adventures together?

TLDR
beating a game is not equal to having played the game

Look at all those things to do in retail and none of it is fulfilling.

>beating a game is not equal to having played the game
sounds like nonsense a game journo would spout

if that's nonsense to you you're wasting time in the wrong genre of games

I hate mages too and I play one, though I'm fire spec. AOE farming and spellcleave is fucking garbage

Well while op is a fag I can say I just had a blast in world pvp. Some skull level druid kept trying to gank and managed to die several times without the help of an equal opponent and afterwords me and a few rogues decided to run around with them stealthed around me waiting until someone tried to attack me for an "easy" kill.

I cant imagine being so desperate for this game to do poorly when you could just play what you do like.

>Doing something resembling damage after the content in on easyfarm mode?
LMFAO

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1st amendment doesn't grant free speech, it grants freedom of speech from government sanction.

>until the rest of the content is released.

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>INVITE FOR LAYER HOP PLEASE IM BEING CAMPED

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You are lucky because my actual talents as demo in BFA are only taking the one which are doing the more damages. There is no decisions between single target or aoe, you are using the same shit for every fucking things.
Even Legion wasn’t like that with that spec...
But I want to go back to wotlk/cata/or even mop gameplays...

>be warlock
>no mobility whatsoever
>still found a way to escape ganks and corpsecamping

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the fuck are you talking about lock is absolute cancer to gank when you can seduce/fear for 50 seconds, you can kill lvl ?? players easily as lock

The biggest meme pushed by classic shills is that the old skill tree gave you the freedom of choice.

Yeah, you could put +3% to spirit or whatever, but nobody is going to invite you to a raid if you bring dogshit garbage specs outside of the one that everybody else already math-hammered out. Shamans will have 1-2 niches, and everybody else will be laughing at the retard that tries tanking dungeons with his Rockbiter spec.

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I don't even know how. Every time I've been layer switched it's fucked me over as an empty area is suddenly filled with mobs.

It's kind of strange how in modern wow it feels like there's more difference between specs than there is between classes.

Problem with Classic was Rob Pardo's grudge against paladins (Shamans could tank better in dungeons.) and dropping roles present in Everquest like debuffer and support.

I just hope if they do Classic+ they don't give us the 41 point TBC trees as that leads to the massive fucking mess of talent trees getting chopped to pieces so people can't stack Mortal Strike with Death Wish. Having all the extra talent points go into a second smaller talent tree might help.

Honestly Rob Pardo and Jeff Kaplan fucked the game over with their hardon for Warriors and "raiding is the only thing that matters" mindset. Game would have been in a much better place if Enhancement Shamans, Protection Paladins, and Survival Hunters could tank as was the original plan. Also if Retribution Paladin lived up to their original class design and had a Crusader Strike that gave an AoE raid buff every time they used it.

shamans can absolutely tank all dungeon content you are delusional

We used to laugh at people like you on the old vanilla forums. Sometimes we'd respec our alts to evenly distribute skill points across all three trees just to troll the fuck out of autistic vets. Point being, no, nobody takes your shit seriously.

For all the people who are quitting, why don't you do me a quick favor and send your stuff to me on Grobbulus. Alliance side. Mageoconsent is the name. Thanks.

LF2M MAGES SPELLCLEAVE DUNGEON SPAM FOR 4 HOURS
ah, just like vanilla

i never even played a shaman, i had been a part of several DUNGEON runs where shamans tanked and everything was fine, raids are a different story but they can tank any dungeon, like i said you are delusional

I remember when cata changed a ton of shaman stuff and even gave them the option to taunt with "weapon buff based ranged ability" while using rockbiter. Between a glyph to cause stoneclaw to give a nice bubble, the healing and extra taunt off spirit wolves, and spending tons of gold into hp and dodge enchants and gems, I was able to tank with one dps and a healer for an optional non heroic boss in the pyramid dungeon

>but they can tank any dungeon
user, we're talking about Vanilla. Unless a class has plate or dire bear form then they can't tank. The only exception to this is if they're overgeared as fuck or pulling one mob at a time.

It's like saying Rogues can tank dungeons in BC. Yeah, it's possible to evasion to survive a few bosses, but please don't be retarded.

pardo and kaplan made bc and wotlk though which were amazing though.

I think a large part of the issue with classic is they didnt know what they were doing at the time and they also had huge time/resource constraints. Later on in BC/wotlk they learned from their mistakes and had more time/resources to sit down and really flesh out the game.

How's Horde on Whitemane?

Not official data, but based on people scanning the population of servers of many days, at all times, this is what current server balance looks like.

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So if you want a fair fight in PvP it's Blaumeux or Grobbulus? Kind of lines up with what I was expecting.

Night Elf Druid or Undead Mage?

That's a weird distribution. So evenly distributed between a range.

>gets transplanted into your body
I want to hug one

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>trash panda gets the ultimate fidget toy and can't contain himself
absolutely adorable

>I don't know anyone who said this
I don't either, but you're fucking lying if you say you haven't heard that shit parroted on the internet for years

I just started, level 4 so far and I haven't seen a single soul around. Is everyone level 60 by now or is the game literally dead already?

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WHY THE FUCK HAVEN'T THEY FIXED MOB BEHAVIOR YET, IT'S LITERALLY NEVER BEEN LIKE THIS.

We told you fags. Vanilla is fucking garbage. TBC or Wrath with changes would have been orders of magnitude better than fucking Vanilla.

Classic is a mob grinding simulator for brain fried boomers who desperately want to relieve their teen years and little else.

WoW did not truly become good until TBC and Wrath.

4. Is not true at all on my server. Very talkative groups all the time

Well it is like 4am in the US if you're playing now. Just keep leveling and you'll be able to run your first dungeon later, Horde gets RFC around lvl 14 in Org, Alliance gets Deadmines around 18 in Westfall

Now add the most important fact of them all
>It's fun
Which is actually true

Oh the good ol' "Free speech isn't an ideal we should ascribe to, but a clause that should just be worked around".
It's such a disingenuous statement it reeks of brain rot. Censorship shouldn't be defended like this.

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I don't give a shit about classic or retail but

>old talent trees are better
undeniably true and anyone with more than 2 brain cells can see the reason why
>it's about the journey not the race to 60
It is for me and many others, however it is true that elitists and streamers rush like retards and ruin it for everyone
>classic incentivizes player interaction
Also true but you can't just put a modern gaming audience in an old game and expect them to change back, it's not going to happen
>class quests
The class fantasy was indeed better in the earlier expansions. Now the class uniqueness and skills are so pruned that all the shit like class halls literally don't matter. It feels fake.
>classic is a great game for casuals
lol who the fuck said that?

Basically both classic and retail shills are retarded. When is TBC coming out?

This. FUCK zoomers. Leveling on retail feels like shit. It's not surprising though because the philosophy has completely changed. I'm sure that if they could they would completely remove the leveling part. Hell, that's kind of what they have already done with all the heirlooms and level boosts.

>first point is that classic is too easy because people beat raids using TBC talents and itemization for vanilla content because blizard catered to pserver fags who have memorized the way to do this shit for half a decade
>last point is that classic is too hard because a single mob of your level can kill you instead of being able to mindlessly aoe crowds to death

which is it?

>last point is that classic is too hard because a single mob of your level can kill you instead of being able to mindlessly aoe crowds to death
A single mob can kill you if you're a retard with NPC bought gear or playing warrior where most of your gameplay int he early levels is parry/dodge/hit RNG

the meta right now is LITERALLY pulling entire dungeons worth of mobs and AoEing them to death. classic is braindead easy

>the meta right now is LITERALLY pulling entire dungeons worth of mobs and AoEing them to death. classic is braindead easy
yes, because its running on 1.12 (technically "1.13" which is the same thing with a bunch of shit that doesn't work properly) which was the TBC pre-patch that buffed the shit out of everything before things were buffed even more in TBC proper

tbc is a casual game that killed wow and classic is using large parts of its design because thats what the private server fags have corrupted vanillia into being

doesn't even touch on how layering has irreversibly destroyed the economy in less than a month, the greatest issue of all that every casual retard has aggressively ignored like it doesn't exist or affect them in any way

even in private servers where they buffed the fuck out of dungeons and raids, vanilla is still braindead fucking easy.

vanilla raids have zero mechanics until Naxx, and even then most of Naxx is incredibly easy.

>tbc is a casual game that killed wow and classic is using large parts of its design because thats what the private server fags have corrupted vanillia into being
i don't know how you came to this conclusion when most private servers actually launch with the correct 8 debuff slot limitation and also buff worldwide mob/raidboss hp to compensate for the pre-tbc character data.

private servers, at least the 'big name' ones, generally put some effort into giving an accurate representation of what classic should actually be like; something you will never ever experience with layering existing.

please elaborate

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>as opposed to pleasing adhd boomers and putting 1 in a cookie cutter build every level
LMFAO

Classic is boring garbage. Wake me up when TBC and Wrath servers get released

>3 button rotation for hundreds of hours until you stop playing is fun
Boomers are fucking hilarious

Sounds exactly like retail desu

And that's why retail is also shit. Bring back actual gameplay like MOP where I had about 18 buttons on my monk.

Ya I can't play this. Please tell me where I'm supposed to have fun?

Am I supposed to to have fun grinding out quests? Jesus Christ the questing is so boring, there's a reason why everyone is spamming dungeons, because all these garbage kill x and collect y quests are extremely boring.

So I go into dungeons, and what do you know are these dungeons boring as fuck. Seriously what is the fun is spamming dungeons and aoeing all the mobs down?

Leveling is not fun, people say classic is about the journey not the destination, but what is the journey? The journey is nothing but boring quests and boring dungeons. And then what is the destination? Level 60? So now I'm just grinding attunement and rep? Now I'm just running piss easy raids to get gear I don't need because my green I hit 60 in are already good enough? Give me a break, why am I even trying to hit 60 in the first place.

Oh, and did I mention classes are boring as fuck to play? Like how am I supposed to have fun with these classic classes? Not only are most classes and specs completely unviable, but does any class/spec even have a real rotation? Or is every class just spamming the same 1-3 abilities ad nauseum? Maybe I'd have more fun questing, raiding, and doing dungeons if my class was actually fun to play.

Say what will you about all classes in retail being the same or whatever, I'd still rather play those classes than classic ones. At least they have actual rotations. A destruction warlock is retail is 100x more fun to play than a warlock in classic.

Retail is a garbage game, but classic isn't any better. God I can't play this shit game any more. I miss early cata.