What do you want from the next Christian Whitehead Sonic?

It already happened with Mania. The special stages were the best implementation of boost gameplay Sonic has ever had, and were more 3D than Generations. And, honestly, special stages are where boost belongs.

youtube.com/watch?v=QKoeX4eYFec

THIS IS WHAT I WANT

That's a 270p webm, user. The actual game is at 4k. Easy mistake.

It's to emphasize movement.
Movement is a core part of Sonic's character, and you would not get a good sense of that if the camera was too close to the characters. As well, with how fast Sonic moves, some people have a hard time predicting in coming hazards and enemies, so it's a functional choice as well as stylistic.

I didnt know i wanted something like this... but now i want all of it

Something based on all of the concepts and characters that got introduced and then forgotten about in the Game Gear spinoffs.

>chaotix and classic amy added on to plus' roster
>more new levels, old ones still revisited but sparingly
>more lore on angel island and the emeralds
>tag team mechanic from encore returns, chaotix's ringshot system optional

I don't understand the appeal for boomer sonic. To me Heroes, Riders and '06 made my childhood great.

>The special stages were the best implementation of boost gameplay Sonic
Did we play different manias or something? The special stages played nothing like any adventure/post adventure game let alone boost game, it played like the special stage in advance 2.

More team hooligan, except not as mirages. I want knack to go full force on trying to steal the chaos emeralds only to fail miserably.

woah damn yeah that I want

I like Adventure and sorta heroes, but Boomer Sonic is just so fun and has amazing world design, I really recommend you try Mania

Are you retarded?

Of course not, they played well. It's the best official 3D Sonic game yet. But it involved going faster and faster, ergo, boost game.

It didnt play well it played absolutely retardedly. It was fucking disgusting. You can barely control Sonic,

Stealth already revealed his game. When is Christian going to reveal his?

Heard good things about mania, but it almost feels like I'm trying to be nostalgic for something which was made years before I was even born. Regardless, I'll give it a shot.

No animal Friends
Especially not that cancerous fuck Shadow

I thought he said this was coming out this year? Is that still the case?

I really dislike this undying trend of trying to be the next Christian Whitehead "but for Adventure, but for Advance, but for Rush"

2D Sonic is an idealized speedrun Mario
3D Sonic should control like a 3D Mario speedrun

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>Sonic should be like Mario
No.

So uh... any news on next Sonic? Mania 2 off the table, etc?

>3D Sonic should control like a 3D Mario speedrun
Well that's what Lost World could have been if the level design was built around the parkour mechanic and had little to no 2D sections. I don't have the webm with Sonic doing parkour in that one lava level as an example.

What is objectively the best Sonic game?

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Sonic is literally based on Mario

Its actually based off of Not being Mario

t. Brainlet that didn't appreciate the momentum-based jumping and rolling in Odyssey

All Sonic Team said was they're working on a new game. Nothing else. We probably won't hear anything until next year.

Sonic's gameplay (since the first game) is based on the momentum physics in Super Fucking Mario for the NES.

>next Sonic
Nothing aside from it being in development.
>Mania 2
Evening Star is working on something 3D. Nobody knows what yet.
>etc.
Aside from more IDW-delays (if it hasn't bored you yet) and the movie (fuck no), not really.

Maniafied Advance Style
Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Nack and Shadow are all playable with unique Differences
>game is good
all I want

The key is momentum. Doesnt matter if its 2d or 3d, if Sonics movement doesnt revolve around momentum then its failed as a sonic game

>mario
>Physics.
Are you retarded?

As long as the level design resembles something out of a Genesis game instead of either pure blockiness Lost World or more linear racetracks like we keep getting, then sure.

at least post a mario game with REAL momentum. why is there no Sonic game where the wall jump deflect you off the wall with no loss in momentum. they all have slow jumps that sets yours speed and only works in a fixed 90 degrees from the wall.

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>Sonic Adventure 2>1
Nah. Other two are correct, though.

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are you?

Attached: 64 Tick Tock Red Coins.webm (540x360, 2.13M)

>in Super Fucking Mario for the NES.
>Physics

I think he means in terms of Classic Sonic's design which seems a lot smaller/chibi..er then Classic Sonic seemed. On a side note I would say the 3D classic Sonic design is supposed to be a mix of the Sonic CD opening and the American artwork (especially Sonic 1's US boxart)

Attached: classic sonics.jpg (1295x583, 565K)

Jesuschrist you are fucking stupid

>Evening Star is working on something 3D. Nobody knows what yet.
Nothing really confirms that it's going to be 3D. They needed 3D artists, but they also had some 3D artists contribute to Mania. It could be anything.

A 2.5D game with 3D environments like Klonoa would be neat.

The Parkour mechanic could've been great

Attached: Parkour.webm (640x360, 2.66M)

Are you illiterate my dude?

I'm writing to you. Are you mentally disabled?

see

what do you think physics is

2D games have physics too, zoomer.

I'd be so scared of doing something like this in a Sonic Team game because I'm likely to just clip through the walls and die.

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>The literal biggest problem with classic sonic was that the screen was too zoomed in to see anything
>Wanting to recreate that in 3D
but why

you're not wrong

Attached: Lost World Parkour Mod.webm (1280x720, 2.09M)

This is pretty accurate from what I've played but holy shit get a fucking life

Probably not, because classic style probably wouldn't have titties.

Mario had gravity and basic object collision, you jump, you arc through the air based on the strength of the jump and forward momentum, you come down, that's it
Sonic was entirely based around object momentum and inertia, and it's major standout mechanic was literally turning into a physics ball that you have little control over outside of choosing when to jump

They were so close.
It can work bros:
youtube.com/watch?v=TIRbhSWFS_w

Christie is working on a 3D game and Stealth is working on a Umihara x Sonic clone
Mania 2 is dead bro.

Wow. You've literally never played SMB1.

"Than sega ever was"? Nigger, he only is that good because he took what they created. Give credit where it's due.

>get a fucking life
Says the poster on Yea Forums, yeah, okay.

Tha's what I'm trying to say. Sega took that little momentum from SMB and expanded the idea to make a whole game based on this gameplay

>>The literal biggest problem with classic sonic was that the screen was too zoomed in to see anything
That was never a fucking problem you dumb piece of shit. The games were properly designed and level layouts never threw you into unfair curveballs.
Christ, how did we go from
>LMAO! Sonic is 2ez. Hold right to win!
To
>Sonic is just unfair. I can't see anything!

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What is this?

Yeah go play your obscure shitty Sonic games

>Sonic 1
>Top tier

>tfw Super Cloudbuilt is my favorite 3D Sonic game
>tfw the devs are pretty much dead, so nothing resembling a sequel will ever be made
Damn.

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>Whitehead proves he's better at making classic Sonic games than Sega ever was
The absolute delusion you people have is amusing

>The literal biggest problem with classic sonic was that the screen was too zoomed in to see anything
Sonic 2 was the first game I ever played and I never had this issue. Maybe you're just a moron who never rolled for some reason.

Sonic Unleashed has the best Boost-based level design.

Change my fucking mind.

What are you even talking about?

Give her a new outfit like Classic Amy

That's like saying Mario made a game based on the object collision from Pong
Sonic's physics inspiration came from shit like Pinball

>Not wanting LOLI FLAT BAT TATS

I dunno if a plain dress like Amy would work here. She's supposed to be a femme fatale, but I don't think that translates to classic's style.

Nobody even knows half of the games of your dumb list for fucks sake

Flat is cat territory.

First of all": Not my list
Secondly: Some do, not everyone is you.
Third: You sound underage

Why are you getting your nuts in such a twist over a dumb ranking image?

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rockybytes.com/sonic-utopia
before you ask, it's just a demo and the actual levels are more linear

i still think the wisps were quality additions
lost world's level design and pacing fucked them over hard

If you're going to have a tier list, you may as well go in some depth about it.

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>First of all": Not my list
Then I'm not talking to you. Mind your business

>Heroes, Riders and '06 made my childhood great.
Uh. Those are not really good games though...

I have played all the games though aptain anger

well get a life my replying dude

Put in tag, a mock world tour mode and chao breeder and I'm sold!

>Get a life
>In a hobby that requires none
user, do you know where you are?

You need to be 18 or older to post on this site

Nah, this is a mess towards the middle.

Shadow is too low. Heroes is too high.

Lost world is miles better than 3DS Lost World yet they're in same tier.

Sonic R shouldn't be in Bad Tier along with Dark Brotherhood and Shuffle, jesus.

Sonic Blast is bad but nowhered near '06 levels.

Holy fucking crap I have never wanted a Sonic The Fighters 2 this badly. I want iiiiit!! I WANT IT ALL INSIDE MY CUNNY!!!!!!!

>i still think the wisps were quality additions
They were, in Colors at least. Lost World fucked it up by obviously implementing Wisps near the end of development instead incorporating wisp abilities into the level design itself. A good number of Colors' stages have a surprising amount of verticality to them thanks to the rocket and drill wisps.

>Tells someone to get a life for actually playing videogames on Yea Forums
We've reached peak Yea Forums, jesus christ.

Fucking kids man, I'm telling you.

>get a life
>now if you excuse me I'm going to continue posting in a Sonic thread on Yea Forums

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>Sonic Adventure 2>1
Debatable, SA1 adventure fields were pretty good

Switch Sonic Rush Adventure and Sonic Advance. Also Sonic 3D Blast is better than Lost World, so either switch those or place them in the same tier.

Is she going to be relevant ever again?
I miss Sonic flirting with her
I really loved her blushing scenes

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2 is better. Stop falling for YouTuber meme opinions

you suck guys

I don't know. I mean it's obvious the sequel would have better stuff implimented. But the setting, the story and I REALLY like hub worlds like Sonic Adventure 1.

lost world 3ds actually did them a fair amount of justice
the transformations felt like extensions or minor alterations to sonic's moveset, and actually made playing the game with them fun
but i will say that the wii u's eagle wisp was genuinely cool to play as

force's wispons were a step in the right direction - using the powers as a tool for combat as well as mobility - but the lack of an option to switch them mid-level as well as the level design preventing extended experimentation with em really put a dent in the experience

if i had to bring em back again i'd allow the player to have up to 3 wisps that could be utilized at any time, and run on a tank or ammunition instead of just a power-up timer, and could cover options for characters that lack certain abilities - eg sonic could use hover for platforming sections while tails could use frenzy or void for combat

there really is so much potential for them

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Sonic 3 sprites

Objectively best Sonic girl.

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needs to have actual level design instead of this shit

SA2 had a way better story, it just had worse(and less) character subplots

...

>Stop falling for YouTuber meme opinions
I don't watch youtubers, zoomer. SA2's shooting and treasure hunting segments are worse than 1's and the level design in the speed stages aren't as open as Sonic's stages in SA1 either. Also SA2's plot is where the franchise's writing started to get really stupid with shit like Sonic being on the run from the government and Eggman blowing up the fucking moon as a "harmless" display of power. At least SA1's plot built itself off of shit relating to S3K.

The only thing SA2 did better was ditch the time-wasting hub stages and replaced them with a basic world map.

Old amy was so much better

That's just a testing bed for the mechanics
Though I wouldn't mind that kind of super open level design if it was made into a ye olde tony hawk-style collectathon

>SA2 had a way better story
This is subjective.

>SA2 had a way better story

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Based

Looks nice but the enemies and hazards don't work well in 3D.
spikes should be more horizontal than vertical. having all your hazards be up or down is dumb, they should be focussed the other axis.

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Naw. They both cute.

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I mean, I guess "eggman awakens an ancient evil" is a better plot if you're retarded
I suppose that was something novel 20 years ago

Sonic 2 is better than standalone Sonic 3. Sonic Adventure 1 is much better than Sonic Adventure 2.

To not ruin Hidrocity Zone and to make better bosses.

SA1 had a better story, but SA2 did a far better job presenting its story. You cant tell me the Shadow vs Sonic scene isn't the best shit ever

>if you're retarded
There's no need to be rude. If you'd like to debate this, I'm more than willing to. Are you willing to?

Why are you talking in third person?

Imagine being this much of a Boomer

Dumb fucking zoomer, Sonic was based off fucking pinball physics

There's no need for a debate when I'm objectively correct, autist
I bet you think Mario 64 has a better story than TTYD

>I guess "eggman awakens an ancient evil" is a better plot if you're retarded
SA2's plot plays out the same way as any other "ancient evil" Sonic story, you dope. Eggman "awakens" the ark, an act which eventually blows up in his face once it/the Biolizard/Gerald tries to destroy the earth.

This desu

>You can barely control Sonic,
Are we still talking about Mania's special stages? Because there's no issues with the controls whatsoever. Unless you're one of those people who never learned how to jump around corners.

I'm starting to believe the study that the average age of the average Yea Forums user is indeed 10 years old. Holy fuck.

I'm willing to debate this if you are. Last offer. I'll withhold what I want to say and see if you're game. I'm not a fan of wasting my time on angry people who use buzzwords.

Iizuka seared her.

I want a real game instead of a romhack.

Why is Amy wearing Sonic's shoes?

>I bet you think Mario 64 has a better story than TTYD
has better world building

Sonic is based on Yuji Naka running through World 1-1 as fast as possible over and over again. Other things like the focus on rolling and momentum came a little later. I mean, you can see the Mario influence in some of Sonic 1's level design, which is significantly more blocky and linear in some stages compared to its sequels.

The delusion in this post is out of this world. Clean the Whitehead jizz out of your lips it's honestly embarrassing.

Honestly I always thought 2 was overrated. It's my least favorite of the original trilogy plus CD, even discounting the &K part of 3.

But there's actual stuff associated with that, that isn't just "chaos existed for some reason, and became bad, and now it's bad again, so beat it up and save the day"
For fuck's sake, Chaos isn't even a real character, Gerald has an entire speech and strong connections to Eggman, a main character

Lazy artist

Put away your fedora, autist

>Sonic is based on wanting a better game than Mario
>The good parts of Sonic that make up its core identity came later, from other sources that were not Mario
You don't say

See, you can't even converse without being a meme spewing child.

I could ask for a lot of things but honestly all they'd need to do is have all original levels to make me happy. Any other stuff would just be icing on the cake.

It's not my fault you lack self-awareness to such an extent that you can't comprehend how legitimately autistic you're being

LOL

Enlighten me, how am I being autistic just because I share a different opinion about story?

Sonic 3's levels are better than &K. Fight me.

>Enlighten me
>just because I share a different opinion about story
You are beyond help

How is insulting me a rebuttal in your world?
You know, a sign of autism is social retardation? Throwing around insults and memes without actual attempts at any argument doesn't make you look like the mentally healthy one here. Just saying.

Super Mario bros in 85 had better physics than games today.

>For fuck's sake, Chaos isn't even a real character
What the fuck are you talking about. Chaos has a whole backstory that explains why he's bad, it's the whole focus every time a character is sent back in time by Tikal. Chaos' character is literally the backbone of SA1's plot.
>Gerald has an entire speech
An entire speech that doesn't even make sense in context. GUN captures Gerald, who then willingly records him giving a speech that explains how he is going to destroy the earth, which is then somehow installed into the ark's systems for when his plan falls into place, with said plans also somehow being programmed into the ark after he had been captured by GUN. That other user who claimed that SA2 was better at presenting its plot than SA1 must be off their meds, since clarifying basic plot details is one of the worst things about the execution of SA2's narrative.
>and strong connections to Eggman, a main character
Chaos' backstory is tied to Knuckles' ancestors, who are heavily involved with both game's plot and setting.

Better bosses, more original zones.

Don't even bother, this board is littered with edgy 20 something year old college dropouts who think meme vs enlightenment is more important.

>Sonic Adventure 2>1
SA2 was a soulless sequel that was a downgrade in every conceivable way. 1 was vastly superior

Good thing rouge is actually a cat then.

>An entire speech that doesn't even make sense in context. GUN captures Gerald, who then willingly records him giving a speech that explains how he is going to destroy the earth, which is then somehow installed into the ark's systems for when his plan falls into place, with said plans also somehow being programmed into the ark after he had been captured by GUN. That other user who claimed that SA2 was better at presenting its plot than SA1 must be off their meds, since clarifying basic plot details is one of the worst things about the execution of SA2's narrative.
Brainlet detected. Why do you think at the start of the Dark Story, Shadow went to the Ark immediately after waking up? Shadow already had the footage that was recorded and using the plans etched out on the background of the prison cell, he programmed the Ark to carry out Gerald's final wish.

Carnival Night Act 2 lowers 3 a bit. And I don't just mean the barrel. What a linear slog.

I know Ice Cap is linear too, but I like it so it gets a pass.

Her name is literally Rouge the Bat.

First time i am 100% agree with this kind of pic

That's a popular opinion, not an unpopular one.

Are you sure?

He's referring to an infamous manual screenshot that is circulating. Thing is it's actually an edit.

not more 2d shit with the same levels from decades ago, that is for sure

It was a typo that got fixed in later reprints

Just a part of her suit.

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I think you two should be conversing.

>soulless
Stop throwing that around. SA2 was far from soulless. Even if you prefer 1, SA2 was full-on Soul.

What guide is this supposed to be from?

Some guide to help kids get into the series.

Heroes.

Only rating games I've actually played.

Attached: Untitled.png (578x493, 413K)

>Heroes guidebook
>SA2 design
Either you're wrong or this guide really was full retard.

That tells me literally nothing since it's supposed to be for kids anyways.

I'm going to see if I can get a hold of this manual by downloading it.

Sonic 1 does not belong on the same tier as 2.

Found zoomzooms first sonic game. Probably played it on Gamecube too, didn't ya, faggot

user, not all guides were created equal and not retarded. Or did you never own Final Fantasy 9's guide?
Because I got some fucked up shit to say to you if that's the case.

Sonic 1 was my first Sonic game, nice try though sonny.

Here's mine.

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Not him but why would that be a bad thing? Gamecube version had more stuff.
I mean fuck man, I own the original Adventure, the elusive blockbuster demo, the Gamecube version AND the PSN version.

Like pointed out it's a guide to help kids to know the franchise sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Welcome_to_the_World_of_Sonic

You're essentially just confirming what I said about basic plot details being horribly presented in SA2's narrative. There's no reason why the player should have to come up with that explanation on their own. For such an important part of the climax, there's nothing even close to hinting that Shadow had a hand in doing any of that, not even a small line about Shadow "keeping himself busy" or some shit while waiting on Eggman.

And you can't convince me that bit was intentional, as there's no reason why GUN would even bother recording the final words of who they consider a madman anyway, other than the devs needing a large exposition dump so the player can understand why the ark is heading towards the earth. Kinda like how there's no logic in Eggman blowing up a chunk of the moon to threaten the planet's leaders, when that would ultimately result in more damage to the population than if he had just used the cannon on the planet itself, but I'm sure Sonic Team needed a cool cgi cutscene, so that nonsensical plot point was created.

What are the "extras" in S3 complete?

>he still thinks 3 Complete is the best version of S3K
Laughing_Flickies.jpg

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Just telling it like it is. There's literally no reason to care for it if you play the games for a good amount of time. It's a dumb guide for dumb kids.

It wasn't an improvement in all areas, it had some worse lighting I hear. Still, nothing to get elitist over.

Your list is fucked up, can I explain why without you spewing memes?

It has a fuckton of bug fixes, small tweaks, and customization options. You can play Sonic 3&K in so many different ways it's kind of insane.

I have played all versions though.
Lighting? What are you even going on about? Game is well lit as shit.

There's some side by side comparisons somewhere. I've never cared about the difference from what I saw though.

Go ahead.

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Not him, but 3 Complete offers too many specific details that please my autism to consider AIR a better version. Proper Sonic 2 sprites (the mod for AIR has issues), the ability to have music continue playing after you die instead of restarting, and a small cutscene in between Launch Base and Mushroom Hill that utilizes S&K's title screen are all pluses in my books.

AIR has the drop dash, which is nice, but that's kinda it. Widescreen is cool, but isn't necessary for me.

Autistic details like different lighting, different ingame cutscenes in some stages, etc

Why are you actually such a boomer
Why are you in a sonic thread on Yea Forums

I think Air's features far outweigh what 3 Complete has at this point now. You underplay widescreen and the drop dash but those are both huge additions. Widescreen brings it up to par with the other definitive editions of 1-2-CD and as said 1000 times, being able to see ahead more just makes 2D Sonic gameplay a lot better. The drop dash is also something that I just can't live without now after Mania, it's the perfect addition to Sonic's moveset. And what problems does the Sonic 2 sprite mod have, I just did a playthrough with it the other day and didn't notice anything different from 3 Complete's. Honestly the only things I miss are the rest of the music options like you mentioned, the transition cutscene that you mentioned, and the little unique icons for each zone. But those are all just minor autistic things that aren't that important.

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>can I explain why without you spewing memes?
>Why are you actually such a boomer
Guess not.

That wasn't even me, I said go ahead.

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>You underplay widescreen and the drop dash but those are both huge additions
I was speaking from a personal standpoint. The drop dash is cool and I wish it was added to 3 Complete. As for widescreen, It's cool to play S3K in widescrreen, but that's not really something that sways me one way or another. I really just don't care.

for it to exist since no mania 2 plans

but assuming it does
>half remade levels from various 2d sonics (alot of source materials)
>half new
>no duplicates from mania 1

I don't need side by side comparisons. I know the comparisons.

>Why are you such a boomer.
Um...I was born before you? For starters?

Sonic Forces deserves to be a tad higher than the lowest ranking denominator. I mean it's not the best Sonic version of the current era but it doesn't deserve the same amount of hate as something that is Sonic 06. You know what I mean?

>That SA1 retard in this thread
I don't even like the SA games but if you're going to say SA1 had a better story than the autistic kino that is SA2 you're fucking wrong. The only leg you have to stand on is Gamma's ending which has nothing to do with the rest of anything.

Wanna debate? I'm up for it if you are.

Mania but with all original levels. And more anime cutscenes.

>anime
Mania cutscenes were not anime. How dumb are you?

I don't know why you were such a faggot about talking to people when your only actual input is "u-um, Forces is probably better than 06, I think?"

If you enjoy SA2's story in a so bad it's good way then it is better than SA1's, but if you're viewing it seriously SA1's is better.

Have you ever played 06?

>I don't need side by side comparisons. I know the comparisons.
Good for you? You do realize I'm not even arguing they're that different, right? Time and again I've downplayed the differences. Why look for a fight where there is none?

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>And what problems does the Sonic 2 sprite mod have, I just did a playthrough with it the other day and didn't notice anything different from 3 Complete's.
The problems I had before was that some sprites had a weird coloring effect, the ledge animations were slightly off, and S2 sprites weren't used in certain cutscenes. The mod's been updated since the last time I've used it so maybe some of these issues have been fixed since then.

>Debate meee!
>No I won't just tell you my opinion, I need to be invited in, like an old school vampire!

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I mean, I agree that Forces is marginally better than 06 in that it actually functioned, I just don't think it's good enough to be put higher than F. I didn't enjoy a single aspect of the game. At least I could laugh at 06, Forces is just kind of depressing, especially coming right after Mania.

I asked if you're up for it, how stupid are you? All you had to do is say yes you socially retard prick.

Yes, it sucks so much cock that it's a pretty good time to watch fall apart in front of your eyes
But that's nowhere near relevant to you being a faggot

...

?????

This isn't omegle you actual autist, people are literally here to talk about the thread subject
If you really need mommy's permission to speak your mind, just assume the answer is no

What the fuck were 3 levels anyway?
Ángel Island,Hidrocity,Marble Garden, then what

Listen to me green horned fuck.
I've been here much lomger than you.
I'm not going to write mote than I need to if someone is just going to make a vague statement take off.
Now either you're him, or debate me. It's quite simple.

The fact that it's better than 06 means it deserved a spot ATLEAST above 06. They made a complete game that wasn't broken to all hell.

Just because you have a laugh at it being broken doesn't mean by the sake of argument that it's the better version.

Okay, then fuck off

>Sonic 4 better than Heroes
>Advance 1 lower than 3
>Mania in ANYTHING but B tier
>Shadow the Edgy
Anyway good taste in everything else

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'So bad it's good' is objectively better than 'bad'
Being boring is the literal worst thing that entertainment can possibly be

That's not how the tier list works. I don't think all games within a tier are equal. Forces is better than 06, but not good enough to be on tier D. I also think Sonic Chaos is better than Sonic 1 MS but I wouldn't put it in tier B.

Thought so.

But your personal enjoyment being dug up from the very flaws is not exactly legit. How can you praise the brokenness of something more than something that was actually completed? You can't tell me 06 is better than forces even if the game itself wasn't broken. Can you?

>Forces is better than 06, but not good enough to be on tier D.
How is it not?

SA2:
>Continues the plot relevancy of the Sonic 3 mural
>Mirrors Sonic vs Chaos in Shadow vs Biolizard
>Sets up a Stardust Speedway reprise with Sonic and Shadow's race above the Ark
>Shows Eggman as an actual ruthless genius who would have won if not for deus ex machina
>Establishes that Eggman's own grandfather had made a Sonic copy himself before their rivalry was even a thing
>Sets Shadow on a redemption arc that sees him finish a fight he was destined to independent of Sonic
>Gerard's original goals and the revelation of the cyclical nature of history actually has Eggman question his own motives openly for once
What does SA1 have?

Shut the fuck up. 06 isn't even "so bad it's good!" That game is legit shit. Fucking christ, I hate you idiots.

I'm starting to think you might actually be a robot

It's really entertaining to watch the suffering that comes out of that game, don't know what your problem is faggot

>SA2
>Continues the plot relevancy of the Sonic 3 mural
How? Or are you referring to that fanwank where Gerald based Shadow off of 3K's mural, even though SA2's script was obviously written when Shadow was still intended to look like that concept design where he was an indigo colored Sonic with a missing eye?

I'm almost sure it was stated somewhere Shadow was based off the mural, it's not fanwank. If it were fanwank it would make the story make a lot less sense because not only was the lizard based off the Chaos mural, but you have to ask why Gerald decided a hedgehog was the ultimate lifeform. The mural is the only thing that makes sense

>>Continues the plot relevancy of the Sonic 3 mural
But it doesn't. SA 1 did that.
>>Mirrors Sonic vs Chaos in Shadow vs Biolizard
Doesn't though. Unless super fonic is a mirror to you?
>>Shows Eggman as an actual ruthless genius who would have won if not for deus ex machina
????
>>Establishes that Eggman's own grandfather had made a Sonic copy himself before their rivalry was even a thing
We know nothing of Sonic and Eggman (Ronotnik's) rivalry since it's established classic Sonic and Modern are not the same Sonic.
>>Sets Shadow on a redemption arc that sees him finish a fight he was destined to independent of Sonic
But Shadow wasn't designed to finish a fight he was designed to. He was designed to be the ultimate life form.
>>Gerard's original goals and the revelation of the cyclical nature of history actually has Eggman question his own motives openly for once
He only questions it once things go to shit and his life is in danger. Eggman is willing to kill everyone to fulfill his autistic goals of Eggmanland.
>What does SA1 have?
I'll skip Sonic since he's the "gotta stop the bad guy" thing
Tails wanted to prove he is capable of being a hero just like Sonic, not someone that just follows him.
Knuckles learne d of his ancestors and the origin behind Chaos.
Gamma was a malfunctioning robot that found purpose through death, by killing those that were considered his brother-in-arms. Found peace through death. And life renewed for completing his mission.
Big the Cat is a symbol of apathy. He is simplistic by nature and nothing more than what little he has.
Amy protects the flicky and doesn't rely on Sonic. Similiar yet different from Tails since Amy stands her ground and needs "no man to save her" which, at the time of the 90's is much different than marios princess peach of constantly "save me" status quo..
Even Chaos has more story. A innocent chao mutated by the chaos emeralds introduced by the echidna.
Tikal redemption of her people.

Calling me a robot is not a rebuttal. Learn how to communicate then come back to Yea Forums when you're ready to clash with someone with different views.

>Shows Eggman as an actual ruthless genius
>decides to blatantly steal the master emerald right in front of both Knuckles and Rouge
>puts bombs on a timer when he very easily has the technology to create a bomb with a remote detonator
>thinks the best way to threaten the earth is to shoot a chunk out of the moon, which surely won't have any adverse effects on the planet itself
He wasn't that smart user.

>How is it not?
Modern Sonic's levels were extremely short, lacked any substance, and were a huge step down from Unleashed and Generations. It retroactively validated all the "boost to win" meme arguments people made about the boost formula. Classic Sonic played awfully and didn't need to be in the game at all. If they didn't have to spend time on Classic Sonic they could've fleshed out Modern Sonic's stages. Seriously, go look at Classic Sonic levels recreated in Mania and tell me that level design is good.

But there were positives to that game, or we ignoring those?

I personally didn't give a shit about creating an OC, but if that's your cup of tea that's cool.

Holy shit this has got to be bait, I don't know where to begin addressing how deliberately fucking wrong you are in every SA2 point. You can't genuinely be this stupid dude.

>But it doesn't. SA 1 did that.
It does because as I've said, Shadow being based on the mirror is the only thing that makes sense.
>Doesn't though. Unless super fonic is a mirror to you?
Hedgehog vs world-ending serpentine in both games isn't a deliberate mirror of fate? Okay sure
>????
When he figured out the ruse and ejected Sonic into fucking space in case you forgot.
>But Shadow wasn't designed to finish a fight he was designed to. He was designed to be the ultimate life form.
He was originally designed to help Earth's people, only via his unique biology. He did so in the way that made the most sense in the game's climax, he was basically destined to do so.
>We know nothing of Sonic and Eggman (Ronotnik's) rivalry since it's established classic Sonic and Modern are not the same Sonic.
That's a fucking RETCON that was nowhere in the picture at the time of SA2 retard
>He only questions it once things go to shit and his life is in danger. Eggman is willing to kill everyone to fulfill his autistic goals of Eggmanland.
He has a few scenes where he's contemplative actually, like that one scene with tails the retard on the ark

>I'm almost sure it was stated somewhere Shadow was based off the mural
It's not. It's just a fan theory that started getting passed around when Sonic Battle came out since it mentions that Gerald studied ancient echidna civilizations.
>If it were fanwank it would make the story make a lot less sense because not only was the lizard based off the Chaos mural, but you have to ask why Gerald decided a hedgehog was the ultimate lifeform.
user, Shadow is a hedgehog because the devs wanted a game with a "dark Sonic". That's it. There's nothing deeper to it than that.
>The mural is the only thing that makes sense
Sure, but that's due to fans trying to make sense of a story that isn't that well-written in the first place. There are other parts of SA2's plot that doesn't make much sense.

Why did you play the game if you didn't care about the main appeal? That doesn't even make sense.

>I'm almost sure it was stated somewhere Shadow was based off the mural, it's not fanwank.
Every bit of it is complete fanwank, sorry user. Its very good fanwank, but it is fanwank

>Unleashed is far fucking better Game
>Generations is A Over Rated Piece of Hedgehog Shit
>Colors Is fucking boring and dumb down with 2d Sections

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>It does because as I've said, Shadow being based on the mirror is the only thing that makes sense.
Makes sense to what? What are you even talking about?
>Hedgehog vs world-ending serpentine in both games isn't a deliberate mirror of fate? Okay sure
Uh, yeah Einstein. That's the theme in all major Sonic games. Are you new to this series? Never played the classic games or something?
>He was originally designed to help Earth's people, only via his unique biology
Wrong, Maria told him that. His creator did not.
>That's a fucking RETCON that was nowhere in the picture at the time of SA2 retard
How can it be a retcon if it wasn't established til after SA 2?
>He has a few scenes where he's contemplative actually, like that one scene with tails the retard on the ark
Right, so we're totally forgetting he tried killing the civilians in station sqaure in SA 1 BY SENDING A FUCKING NUKE AND THEN TAILS AND EGGMAN HAD A RACE TO SEE WHO WOULD DEFUSE OR DETONATE IT? Come the fuck on.

I thought the main appeal was Sonic.

For like the fifth time, your specific opinions on vidya have absolutely nothing to do with you being the way you are
Actually, I should really stop taking this bait

Boost is inherently shit so congratulations to Unleashed for being the winner of the Special Olympics.

>Sonic 4 episode 1 over Generations

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>Why did you play Unleashed if you didn't care about the werehog? That doesn't even make sense.

>Sonic 4 and Forces
>Better than anything

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The game was HEAVILY marketed to make your own character. How oblivious are you?

Or you could just say your rebuttal like I've been asking for? Ever think of that?

I love Sonic Unleashed so you can take your snarky comment elsewhere.

>That's the theme in all major Sonic games. Are you new to this series? Never played the classic games or something?
Name one classic game where sonic fights a serpent for the fate of the world

Serpent? Can't do that. I can list gods though if you'd like?

>I love Sonic Unleashed so you can take your snarky comment elsewhere.
Nice argument, really proved that you can't understand anyone's perspective but your own, you're definitely not autistic at all

I want Sonic the Fighters 2

Don't use the word autism incorrectly. Go take an actual psychology class before making such remarks kid. You know nothing about the condition just because someone says something that goes against you.
Sonic Unleashed was also advertised to the werehog. It wasn't even hidden. Quit your nonsense.

>How can it be a retcon if it wasn't established til after SA 2?
This sentence alone tells me that you shouldn't be allowed access to a computer. Literal downie.

>The game was HEAVILY marketed to make your own character. How oblivious are you?
How does that make the game not shit? The actual gameplay with the OC was just as bad as Modern and Classic Sonic. The novelty of creating your own Sonic character is just that, a novelty.

Then you have nothing to counter the actual premise you were arguing against, nice

>I've been falling for bait this whole time
Fuck me.

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Holy shit, you don't even understand what the argument is about

>Name one classic game where sonic fights a serpent for the fate of the world
I don't know why you're acting like the Biolizard was based on Perfect Chaos. Not only does he look nothing like the mural, but according to the in-game article on project Shadow Gerald used a lizard as a prototype due to lizards' regenerative abilities.

Well yeah fuck face, SA 2 prior did not mention classic and modern to being two different people. Also visually obviously different.

>How does that make the game not shit?
I need to know: Did you beat the game or just running your fingertips?

Depends what argument you're referring to. Want to tell me?

Your greentext and pic means nothing to me. You literally know nothing about the actual condition. You use it a buzzword. You're fucking idiotic and childish. Hrow up, take some classes. I'm sick of dealing with retarded know-it-all 20 something year olds that think they know more than the people who dedicate themselves in their studies. Learn your shit, or keep quiet.

It wouldn't make sense when you could just play the Unleashed mod for Generations.

I do, not my fault you failed to see any advertisement that clearly showed you what was going to go on with the game. Go on youtube, knock yourself out. And please do knock yourself out, I hate talking to some of you.

Are you fucking retarded or underage. A lot of these games are commonly known besides a total of 10 minimum

That probably only took him like 10 minutes to put together. The fuck do you mean, "get a life?"

>Sonic 3 mural
The Sonic 3 mural specifically refers to Doomsday zone.

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Heroes should be a tier lower, '06 should be a tier higher. It's a shitty game, but it's not Labyrinth bad.

A broken uncompleted game should never be praised higher than the bare minimum. Why praise laziness?

>I need to know: Did you beat the game or just running your fingertips?
What kind of non sequitur is that? You said that the OC was advertised, but that doesn't detract from any of the criticisms I've made. I'm not giving it bonus points for a poorly implemented feature just because it's unique.

>The game advertised itself as having werehog stuff in addition to the regular sonic stuff so therefore it's okay that it was really bad and nobody can ever prefer the regular sonic stuff or play the game for it
lmao

Here's my tier list

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Yeah, but he's trying to claim that the reason Shadow looks like a Super Sonic recolor is because he's based off of 3K's mural, even though SA2 has no mention of said mural whatsoever.

Did you or not?

That reply made zero sense. All you did was green text a line and then reply with laughter. Why even reply at all for all to see? We don't care if you're laughing or not. What I personally want to know is what makes you think I'm wrong?

Since when is pinball meh? Unless you don't like pinball games?

Not bad. I don't get why Sonic 1 on the Master System is higher than Triple Trouble though or why SADX is way lower than SA.

>why SADX is way lower than SA
Probably because it's buggier and uglier, although it probably should belong just a single tier below the original in that case.

Yeah, not a fan of pinball. It's a fun distraction, but not something to get too into.

SADX is a watered-down port of the original Dreamcast version. Also, I haven't played much of triple trouble, but I did enjoy my time with MS Sonic 1.

>Yeah, not a fan of pinball. It's a fun distraction, but not something to get too into.
But is that the game's fault though? I mean ranks usually have to do with the game design itself. It's like complaining about the fish when you're eating sushi. Doesn't make sense to rank it lower despite it being actually good sushi. Should a game suffer ranking because you just so happen to not personally agree with it's genre?

>SADX is a water-down port
Okay, so many wrongs things you just said.
>Never played triple trouble
>Played SADX
>SADX had trouple Triple in it
What the actual fuck?

Best Sonic character of all time here.

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Did you play it far enough to hear this banger?
youtube.com/watch?v=ny2ludAFStY

I see tier lists as more of a personal opinion than an objective ranking.

It's been well known for a long while that SADX is buggier than the original and also has worse lighting among other things.

oh damn, that's really good for game gear standards.

Still not clear why he had to keep running on TOP of the train. He should have been running alongside it or something.

That game's legit more fun than other "complete" games in this series. I'd rather play '06 than Shadow any day of the week.

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That doesnt explain the triple trouble comment. Also SADX is not watered down, it's barely changed and lighting is not worse than the original.

If that is your philosophy, you should swear off telling anyone about a game being bad.

mania' special stages is basically Sonic R with better movement and auto acceleration, so yeah it is the best 3D sonic implementation ever.

The end goal is the same. "it feels good to simulate the main character physics in the head to master it and control exactly where he will land or go".
But sonic expands the concept greatly.

poor bait

Yet you still replied you fucking moron. You going to answer or not?

worse bait

best theme too

I hate people like you, which is 99% of this board.

>SADX is not watered down
Yes it fucking is. It has more bugs than in the original (The obvious thing I can think of is emerald coast). For lighting, compare speed highway, final egg, and twinkle park to see what I mean.

I played only a little bit of triple trouble.

>lighting is not worse than the original
Is this a joke. The lighting and visual effects in SADX are all screwed up.
dreamcastify.unreliable.network/index.php/lighting-downgrades/

sad boomer bait

No.

Mania is better than any of the classic Sonics except 3K. Fuck off.

>robot version of the main character
Come the fuck on. His design is cool as fuck and his music is jammin, but that's it.

Sonic Heroes.

Sonic Team doesn't really seem to have any real plans for a good amount of characters. Characters like Shadow, Silver, Blaze, the Chaotix don't really have any purpose given to them and aren't part of the main group to get a pass. When they appear, they're just around to be their because popularity. It's why I really wouldn't mind a reboot cleaning out some of the cast and world(s) and re-purposing some of the others like Shadow since SEGA's flip-flopped on how they want him portrayed again.

When I was growing up Adventure and the other GCU Sonics were what defined the series to me, however once Sonic Generations came out I was more interested than ever in Classic Sonic. I played a few of them with my friend and wen on to play CD on my own. CD quickly became a great game in my eyes (The most recent cleaned up version that is) and Classic Sonic quickly became the "true" Sonic to me. Sonic Mania only further proved that there was never any real reason to redesign Sonic or change his personality.

Slightly related - The current "modern" Sonic has a terrible personality. I don't like how self aware and ironic he is. The last thing they should have done is pander to people who don't even like the series. Sonic Boom only further damaged Sonic as a character. Just stop making him overly sarcastic and stop putting him in situations that are more serious than he was ever meant to be in.

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>Sonic Boom only further damaged Sonic as a character.
I don't really see how. Straight-man Sonic was actually a pretty decent take on the character and is a lot better than the knock-off Spider-Man he's written as being in the more recent games or the "generic hero" characterization the Japanese like to go with.

Design is half the character
What little we've got of his actual psychology is better than most Sonic characters too

Whatever happened to Cybershell?

Sonic was always portrayed as a wise-ass. Go watch the old cartoons, he's full of snark. Maybe not "done with all this shit" snark like Boom, but he's definitely sarcastic and wise-cracky.

Agreed. Japan Sonic is so flavorless. Except when he declares things like "THIS IS HAPPENING"

tone down levels playing themselves

He was pretty cool in Secret Rings.

youtu.be/CwdLwr04III?t=2269

Nobody knows. If he died, then at least he got to play Sonic Mania before he passed on.

>The last time we got a good Sonic story was over a decade ago.
What did we do to deserve this?

Personally, nothing. But Sega learned minimal effort is needed when you have a mascot who sells games like hotcakes regardless.

>tfw I don't think any Sonic game has had a good story
Just all different flavors of bad or mediocre, honestly.

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Sonic became a joke rather than a role model.
I think the more serious works were aiming for the latter, but their poor delivery wrecked it.

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not even SA2B?
That game has no plot holes.

when is cybershell coming back bros

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You're funny, user.

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Go on, shoot a plot hole at me.

I want to marry Vanilla and raise Cream together with her!!!

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Do we really need to bring up the whole "Eggman blows up the moon" thing every time we discuss dumb parts of SA2's plot?

I like you.

I really like how he looks in the old games. The newer designs look so weird and clunky, and his head looks way too wide. Not menaching at all. Shit like this and especially how he looked in Fighters was perfect.

Mecha Sonic.

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He did it to prove a point, the times where the moon is fine is on the other games

>He did it to prove a point
user, this was already discussed in this very thread. Blowing a chunk out of the moon would effect the planet worse than if he had just shot the earth with the cannon instead like he was threatening. The whole thing is just stupid.

Leave that blue fucker to rot and use the publicity to make a proper Phantasy Star successor

Alright fine.
Gun didn't mistake Sonic for Shadow, it was a cover up operation, they knew they were capturing Sonic.

A full game based off Sonic Jam from the Sega Saturn.

Put in a low resolution mode and chunky models for the game Sega didn't deliver on the Saturn.

???
I did not invite you to share your autistic headcanon with me.

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boost gameplay is $60 temple run

I've seen them and I'd say that Sonic Boom is definitely a worse take and nothing like the original. The one from the older cartoons isn't exactly like the games either.

I don't need an invitation.
doodoo head

Can we just kill fucking Sonic

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Agree with everything but Battle and Advance 2 deserve to be higher up.

You're right it should be higher

Still the best girl.

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Who is she?

Sonic Adventure > SA2
Sonic 2 > 3 > 1

Are you idiots trolling??
Sonic Adventure 2 is WAY better than Sonic Adventure all the stages are way more interesting
Have you forgotten the glitches?
Have you forgotten Big?
The terrible mouth animations?
I swear this place is just full of nostalgiafags

>OLD GOOD NEW BAD UNGA UNGA

He's legitimately given you several chances to stop being a fucking tourist and actually discuss videogames and you refuse to and continue to shit talk. The better story out of Adventure and Adventure 2 is not clearcut and you two COULD have had a cool little conversation but instead you reduced yourself to a gibbering baboon.

I honestly with no sarcasm feel that Shadow the Hedgehog, as a game, fulfilled its wish in an extremely creative and interesting nonlinear way, while Sonic Heroes completely sat on its own balls and was generally really bad at doing things its own way.

I feel like people give Shadow way too much shit and don't shit on Heroes nearly enough.

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I would have talked about it if he did and wasn't a fedoralord that didn't know how to talk to people and was asking everyone to fucking debate him
Neck yourself

why is Sonic Team so afraid of committing to a gameplay foundation and improving it
watch the next 3D Sonic game not having any of the avatar/wisp weapons things and having its own, underdeveloped gimmick again

He knew exactly how to talk to people and gave you ample opportunities, several times, to get you to calm the fuck down and actually discuss shit in the thread instead of being a complete shitposting mongoloid. If you think you can just say "X is better than Y" in a fandom that CLEARLY hasn't settled on which is which, then that makes you retarded, a shitposter, or a retarded shitposter. Feel free which of those three, and only those three, you choose to identify as.

You could have had a fun little conversation- instead you shat up the thread for 16 posts in a row while spouting memes and insults for "literally" no reason. I bet you're from Reddit and think Yea Forums is just a sewer to shitpost on. Kill yourself you fucking dumbass.

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It had a lot of cool shit but all the edgy "hardcore game for hardcore gamers such as myself" shit was the exact opposite of charming and is enough to turn a lot of people off regardless of everything it did well
Heroes, on the other hand, had some shit that appealed to people, and was mostly boring, but there was nothing grossly offensive about it

wuh wuh debate me wuh
How about you follow your own advice you dumb nigger, talk about video games

>fun little conversation
You keep repeating this phrase, and seem to be a bit delusional about the nature of arguments, makes me think you're the same guy still assmad hours later about someone being rude to him for being weird. pls go and stay go my man

I already am. You (you)d me both times. I was both the Tier list and also this. I was talking about videogames while also complaining that, while going over this thread, you were singularly unique in your shitposting ways. Granted I know it was several hours ago but you don't just get to take a huge shit in the middle of a thread and then complain when people point it out. Fucking contain yourself, dude.

BUT on regards to the post you made about shadow; I don't know. I actually really enjoyed the over the top edgy moments. "Taking candy from a baby" comes to mind, like, why would shadow ever say that except to be an Edgy little asshole? Not to mention this takes place at a time where doing so would cause their space ship to literally lose power.

An interesting theory, but no. I just stumbled upon this thread at like 5 in the morning and went over it, and found his reply chain to be particularly cancerous. A lot of people from Reddit think it's trendy to treat Yea Forums like the designated shitposting website. People with that mindset need to leave.

>debate meeeeee
lmao okay robot man

Also there's a fucking mission assassinate the president and then kill sonic, in that order
That's hilarious, granted, but it's more "laughing at you" and not "laughing with you", the game takes it 100% seriously
Some people already had a hard enough time with the fuzzy animal melodrama in the adventure games. so it's not surprising that taking that and turning it up as far as it'd go would almost universally turn people off

^

Lack of suspension of disbelief is often a sign of autism, and I'm not just saying that to constantly goad you into a shitpost war. A lot of people dog Shadow because it's hard to imagine this shit coming from a furry little hedgehog, but if you've followed along, believed it, and invested in the darker undertones since Adventure 1, Adventure 2, and to a lesser extent Heroes, then this is ACTUALLY one of the few logical conclusions that could have occured.

Sure out of context all of this looks completely fucking insane, but this universe has already set a precedent for this shit- not even 2 years ago the SUPER hedgehogs stopped a world ending space station crash and pacified a primeval water god. SAME world ending meteor space station thing could still use 5 emeralds to blow up the white house, 6 to blow up a country, and 7 to blow up the entire planet.

Everything that occurs makes sense within its own universe and context, but I will admit the self evident humor is there but ONLY when intentionally taken out of context.
>Black aliens
>DURR RACIST
The mainstream and their reaction to anything should never be the bar set when considering what is or is not reasonable thought.

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>Being edgy and grimdark as fuck and using guns and saying swears and being super cool you guys I swear is actually very understandable and a logical conclusion of multiple mostly lighthearted stories about saving the world with the power of friendship
I'm sorry dude, but this is why everyone else looks down on the sonic fandom
The game's world, tone, and premise were entirely the result of a desperate sega starting to feel the fallout from losing the console war and turning to the submitted ideas from 12 year old japanese children in an attempt to figure out what would make them money

I'm not saying the game is highbrow, not everything needs to be fucking Stephen King. Sonic survived and thrived in its hay day by separated itself from Mario purely on attitude alone, with gameplay being completely tertiary. These are his roots, and as the 90s gave way to the 2000s you had shit like unregistered hypercam flash videos with sprite sonic characters playing with Lincoln Park in the background- this was their audience.

Shit on the fanbase all you want, I'll be right there with you also laughing that the cartoon hedgehog carrying a gun half the size of his body is told to kill the president, takes it completely seriously, and dashes off with his fucking ROCKET BOOTS.

After a while it becomes all in good fun; the ability to register it as a consistent universe that is also able to be laughed at and with is required. If you don't have it, fine. If a lot of other people don't have it, fine. The sonic fandom has been drawn and quartered for almost 15 years now, and people point at no less than 5 different areas where it "all went wrong" well in my opinion, what went wrong was fanaticism. More an an emphasis on characters instead of gameplay, and I register Shadow the Hedgehog as the final game that managed to do both before it finally spiraled irreparable out of control.

I just think that Shadow was an unfair scapegoat for that, when the game immediately preceding it, Sonic Heroes, as a GAME, was so much fucking worse.

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>Sonic survived and thrived in its hay day by separated itself from Mario purely on attitude alone
The classic games communicated that attitude mostly through aesthetics and mechanics

I'm just saying, the humor in edgehog was entirely at its' own expense, it honestly expected the target audience to eat it up and think it was the coolest shit ever
It's kinda in the same boat as 06 in that regard, it was trying to be this big serious game but the only legacy it ended up having was as a laughing stock
Heroes blows, but nobody's going to talk about that, because there's not much to cover, nothing that's bad about it is even memorable enough to discuss outside of maybe a few memes about the annoying voice lines, it's just that bad
Same reason why you see talk about Forces dying down as more time passes from its release, it's the kind of suck that nobody really gives a shit about once the new game excitement dies down

>it honestly expected the target audience to eat it up and think it was the coolest shit ever
You'd probably think less of me for saying this, even though I don't really care since this is Yea Forums but I really did like the extremely stark black and white morality system that spackled in a few gray and purple dots here and there. Betraying sonic at the last possible second and letting Black Doom get away JUST to fucking Dab on Sonic and call him shit is fucking hilarious.

Say what you want about shooting the president, that mission was extremely well designed and is one of my favorite to replay and was a perfect blend of tight 3D platforming and gunplay

Like, dude, I'm not blind or retarded, I just actually sort of ENJOY the bullshit that Shadow has. The 50 year flashbacks where you massacre all the Gun soldiers in a fit of autistic rage? Using a hover disk to surf on green lava? Karate Chopping Eggman to death and then fucking off to build a robot world? Like, Jesus dude, melodrama aside this paints Shadow as the single most capable protagonist in the Sonic series.

When Forces came out they sort of forgot to have anyone do anything except Sonic, and his modern type of "attitude" is just sarcasm to the point of genuine insanity. We've gone from "A children's character from the mid 2000s that got kind of dark with some over the top edgy shit" to literally what I can only describe as PBS-Kids Sonic. I would take the edge and unironically sing its praises until the fucking universe dies a heat death if it meant that this era of constantly shitty sonic games would finally end.

Shadow is a legitimately interesting character trapped in an IP that wants nothing more to do with him.

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