What went wrong?

It was an excellent backdrop for modern race politics. I don't see the difference.

>What went wrong?
Too many people just keep making CRPGs that try to be the same as old ones but less complicated, instead of evolving the genre to utilize what is possible with todays tech.

I've bought a bunch of these CRPG revival games, but honestly I haven't finished any of them because I've just done this so many times already before.

Quick addendum though: I did finish both of the Original Sin games though, they're both great (though I was sad to see the argument mechanic get axed in the sequel)
I highly recommend these two

>Too many people just keep making CRPGs that try to be the same as old ones but less complicated, instead of evolving the genre to utilize what is possible with todays tech.

this. This. THIS. FOR FUCK'S SAKE IT'S THIS.

Most of the new crpgs decided to go with the cancer that it real time with pause, the worst parts of real time and turn based mixed together into a fat lump of shit.

there should have been a tool-set create your own stories/maps like Neverwinter nihgts a long time ago, but it seems people forgot how to make good things, so it's never going to happen.

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Are there any CRPGs that have tried adopting something similar to what Bioware was trying with Dragon Age before they got sniped by EA and all the talent left?
They got most of the heavy lifting done while they could and I think the potential is obviously there, it'd be really interesting to see a traditional CRPG that lets you zoom in and play the game more in that action adventure perspective.
These days I kinda really appreciate when I can kick back with my feet up and just relax with a pad. Not that I have anything against keyboard and mouse, its just not as comfortable sitting up like that for long sessions and using the keyboard on my lap like that isn't great for the cable.

>how to kill all your credibility in one simple post

>people
Gender politics and lgbt was invented by christian nations coming out of the closet.

Divinity Original Sin 2 has one, you can do quite a bit with it though I didn't spend too much time with it myself. I think the options for map creation were a little limited though, but I can't quite remember. I'm sure someone else in this thread has played around with it more than I have

They were really fun co-op games, me and my buddies had a blast playing through them.
Shit like my friend finding a grave in someones backyard and wanting to dig it up, saying "Nah I don't wanna do that", losing the argument and having to dig it up myself, and blowing the fuck up because it was rigged with explosives was a lot of fun.
The elemental combos were really fun to mess around with too. Not sure how the game is on other difficulties, but that remixed 'tactician' mode or whatever it was had some pretty clever combat encounters too.
I'm not sure why you didn't like them so much, maybe they aren't as fun solo I wouldn't really know.

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Isn't this just Pillars of Eternity though?
I don't really remember anything outside of the stupid backer NPCs you never talk to more than once anyway. Thats like, the smallest problem. If you don't wanna read the dumb shit the backers submitted then their NPCs just become your usual background NPCs with nothing important to say. Not that PoE doesn't have other problems though, and I'm not sure what the sequel was like,

Lore, story and characters were all mediocre
Gameplay was serviceable but without surprises

You mean being shit with little features, a bland setting and terrible graphics and animations?

No I mean how it could basically be played like a CRPG if you forced the paused combat,
I just don't see why we couldn't have a modern CRPG that gives you that sort of control scheme as an option, I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Any control limitations can be overcome with a separate UI for pads that is a little more context menu heavy

>christian
Pretty much only protestants.

>with Dragon Age
Dragon Age was mediocre and cut down to what came before it
cRPGs peaked with SSI's Gold Box series and Dark Sun

>I'm not sure what the sequel was like
They took all the bad parts of the first game and focused on making a game out of that
it was horrible

Who even uses the game creation shit for DOS2?

It sounded cool on paper but it was a bit obtuse for my taste, I just stick to tabletop simulator for running online campaigns like that

Progressive medieval/renaissance fantasy always destroys the immersion for me.
Ironically having a gay character who is actively ostracized by the society in the game is more immersive in my opinion and acualy makes the game better for me. Specifically if the character is likable. It acualy helps way more to fight modern day homophobia to have a gay rights quest in a game than just have the game be set in a progressive world.
Witcher 3 has gay characters in it and none of them are preachy and acualy have tragic pasts because of there sexuality.
Witchers world is believable specifically because its racist sexist and homophobic.

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But most modern CRPG have paused combat? The most recent being Greedfall

Greedfall is quite a bit like that. annoyingly you only directly control the PC, your party member AI isn't terrible though.

>he didn't get the true ending and fought the lantern king in a dope ass fight at the every end.

Is pathfinder a meme? The gameplay feels so slow and the world and characters are so boring. Resting is a chore and overall it just feels like a slower baldur's gate

yes, your post does that.

Nothing. We've gotten a bunch of good games out of it. It could have just stayed dead.

You never liked Baldur's Gate and similar games in the first place if you talk shit about Pathfinder, fuck off.

cRPGs were never dead, mainstream zoomer shiteaters just didn't know where to look and only care now after their favorite streamer talked about Baldur's Gate (or more likely trash like Dragon Age) or something.

Nothing. Divinity 2 Original Sin is the best C- and RPG in the existence. Only contrarian faggots with their immensely high expectations disagree.
>story
Better than BDs, Bethshits or even Planetscapes. You can only fault it if you focus on the main story with its ending, which is only a tiny fraction.
>gameplay
Armor system is retarded but its still fun. If you dont want to break the game then just dont.
>leveling
again, fun and good. Not as deep as one might want though

100% this. Mainstream success died off so the genre as a whole is considered "dead", even though there's still great games coming out.

Owlcat didn't get to make BG3.

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Stop falseflagging.

Im serious, there isnt a better RPG than Div 2

Original Sin 2 is a good game but it's not a cRPG, not at all.

>Nothing. We've gotten a bunch of good games out of it. It could have just stayed dead.
Fucking this. Yeah, a few have been so-so but fucking duh of course it'd be like that, there is never a time when all vidya coming out are good. But overall it's been great, there have been some solid new titles and a demonstration of continued interest from a niche that is profitable which means there will probably be more. There is still more new stuff coming too, Wasteland 3 is looking like a promising significant improvement over WL2 for example.

OP is a faggot again today.

Name 5

Pathfinder Kingmaker
Underrail
Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2
Shadowrun Dragonfall & Hong Kong
Atom RPG
Expeditions: Viking
Age of Decadence
NEO Scavenger
Lords of Xulima

CRPGs have fucking terrible combat. I enjoy the story and shit but the combat always puts me off
maybe i'm just bad

>Progressive medieval/renaissance fantasy always destroys the immersion for me.
That's because you're a smooth brained faggot. Even our world has had plenty of religions, particularly polytheistic ones, where the jew/christ/islam bugaboos don't exist. Wouldn't take much of a change in history for everything to be totally different. And in a world with actualy magic and where gods are real, not make believe (or at least make believe itself creates reality), what would be immersion breaking is if it was just like Earth IRL.

If anything the real disappointment is that it the alienness rarely gets explored to logical conclusions in exactly how crazy humanity would get if it had access to magic or could pursue some sort of magical singularity.

Maybe you play the wrong games.

>maybe i'm just bad
You are

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If you had a few specific ones in mind sure, some are weaker, but if you don't like ANY of them maybe you're bad but more likely being here it's just not a style you enjoy. Nothing wrong with that, but a lot of CRPGs have great combat.

Imagine being this bad at RPGs. I had to turn up the difficulty to Unfair to get a proper challenge in that game and these shitters are struggling with the lower ones already.

Yeah but I don't really get what I do wrong. In pathfinder I would pause and make sure to focus enemies, queue up spells etc but half the time my party just got rolled or would miss half their attacks

EVERY GAME NEEDS A "VERY EASY" MODE MAN SO I CAN JUST ENJOY THE STORY DON'T BE ELITIST PLEASE UNDERSTAND

Nothing, Divinity OS is pretty good, same for Shadowrun Hong Kong and Dragonfall

yeah they're called crpgs

>the alienness rarely gets explored to logical conclusions in exactly how crazy humanity would get if it had access to magic or could pursue some sort of magical singularity
This, we need the equivalent of high caliber sci-fi novels, but for fantasy.
Planescape is the only fantasy gameI played that goes far enough into crazy territory.

You didn't prebuff
You didn't CC
Certain spells like Stinking Cloud are so absurdly powerful that they remain useful from level 5-20, literally up to the very true final boss who is not immune to nauseated, or any other CC for the matter.

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You have to enjoy really digging into the system and figuring out what works on what enemies, positioning, what you can abuse for advantage and for multipliers in combinations, etc. You can't just do whatever seems cool usually, most CRPGs won't even really let you grind in the same way JRPGs do so you can't just outlevel, you've got to have at least a semi-decent build.

That's not for everyone, though it fits a lot of Yea Forumsirgin autism to a T. And a lot of us have been playing them for along enough and done well enough that it comes more naturally too I guess. You might try reading some guides from others and seeing some strong, even OP builds/strats and try that to get a feel for what can be done, which might give you more of a structure for what to try on your own? Dunno. Or you could just skip this genre.

Is that supposed to be fun? All you did was send your guys to attack them and killed the boss in a few seconds? There's no positioning, no step-by-step strategy, no time to even tell who is attacking who. That has none of the fun of table-top combat.

This isn't Dragon Age, kid.

Pathfinder is only hard because you cant natively respec. People just build wrong because they dont know the game yet and when they do its already too late to do anything. Youre just luring people into a pitfall, its the very definition of artificial difficulty,

Calling a CRPG "hard" is just like calling MTG hard because some newbie didnt know how to build RDW. Once you know it its piss easy.

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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about but still needed to comment.

>Planescape is the only fantasy gameI played that goes far enough into crazy territory.
Yeah, that's the one that'd immediately come to mind. Though that "spiritual sequel" Torment is set in the Numenera universe if I remember right, and that tabletop setting at least (haven't played the game yet) also got pretty far out there, with millennia of accumulated history and races that had transcended or done all sorts of wild shit.

Cookie-cutter multiculti fantasy settings are the worst kind of globohomo trash. Nothing kills immersion quite like it. If a game is set around a single fantasy city, there should be a distinctive culture and appearance to the people there - good and bad qualities. It shouldn't feel like LA during pride month.

The reason Morrowind got so much praise was because it at least felt like an actual place. Mostly Dunmer, mostly racist, slavery, drugs, crime, all the things that made it feel like an actual shit hole.

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Literally all of those came out after or due to the revival, bud

If you insist, asshole.

>the fun of tabletop combat

>Pathfinder is only hard because you cant natively respec
They already caved in to the casuals and let you respec for months now since the Enhanced update.
Thankfully it also sets your difficulty to Custom meaning it makes cheevos casual seethe

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Imagine getting asshurt about gender politics in a video game

Well at least it was better than the dullest RPG of all time. Each attempt Obsidian makes to create their own universe rather than simply deconstruct a setting made by others, has been more disastrous than the last. Aside from the outdated gameplay and lifeless cities, Pillars of Eternity's only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of combat mechanics, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when Sawyer vetoed the idea of making anything at all innovative or original; he made sure the game would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody, just ridiculously profitable nostalgia pandering to ageing Baldur's Gate fans. Pillars of Eternity might be anti-casual(or not), but it’s certainly the anti-Divinity series in its refusal of spontaneity, fun and excitement.

>a-at least the writing was good though

"No!"

The writing is dreadful; the narrative was terrible. As I played, I noticed that every time I engaged in dialogue with an NPC the game presented me with a Wiki-page style infodump instead of anything resembling actual human conversation.

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time this was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Sawyer's mind is so governed by obsession with pointless minutiae of the lore that he has no other style of writing.

Later I read a lavish, loving review of Pillars of Eternity by the same David Gaider. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kiddies are playing Obsidian games at 17 or 18, then when they get older they will go on to enjoy Dragon Age II." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you play "Pillars of Eternity" you are, in fact, trained to shill for Bioware.

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better question is why the fuck every rpg game now must have fagots in it?

Imagine cutting off your balls.

>If a game is set around a single fantasy city, there should be a distinctive culture and appearance to the people there - good and bad qualities.
That definitely, definitely depends on what kind of city it is, and ideally a game WOULDN'T be set around just one for just that reason. As you go "inland" (this being fantasy, that could be away from the sea or I guess away from a warp hub or something) it makes sense things would more fit the nation or land or whatever. But if it's a tradehub city it'd be highly expected to be full of a vast array of people and cultures, which is just what has happened IRL. Like, you give the example of LA but that's the point, LA is real, and on the ocean. LA is very different then say Minneapolis, even though the latter is still millions of people. And a major power capital city is going to be different from either, there may be more variety because it'll be a natural focus for many other powers diplomacy and business but simultaneously will be a polity symbol and full of that.

If anything I enjoy well considered contrast there, where you've got both mixing pots with both the strengths and weaknesses of that, strife and so on, and more focused ones.

Jesus you're not even wrong.

Thank Amaterasu for Japan the savior of vidya.

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Why not? Might as well ask why it should have straights. And if you want to complain about it not being handled well much of the time that's fair, but then again romance in CRPGs is notoriously fucking awful 90% of thhe time and always has been.

CRPGs were long games with intricate lore. Nobody wants to do that kind of production value anymore.

Very little. I fucking love CRPGs and I'm glad they're back.

I absolutely despised Witcher because it reminded me of Poland and Slavs in general. It was realistic though those places exist.

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The shitty kingdom management system cost them.

in 90% times they only using to pandering and it is kinda tiresome to play with the same companions again and again and again for most part i have feeling they just copy paste these lgbt characters they all have same traits the same can be said about the poc characters they always done in the same manner you can look at them and you already know what they will say

Because quite literally if there weren't normal people there wouldn't be civilization.

>in 90% times they only using to pandering
I honestly wouldn't be able to tell from this is you were referring to homo stuff or fucking everything. Because most of the time romance period in CRPGs is cringy virigin pandering, and not even the quality pandering you might find in a flat out porn game.

Like, if you want to complain about romance period rather then just focusing on the combat and realpolitik faction shadowboxing and huge arc awesome villain ham and so on no problem. But it's pretty pathetic to complain about "pandering" to others when they're "pandering" to you too at the same time and quality.

Sure, but 95% of the pop isn't 100%. Also fantasy setting etc., I've never bitched about all male/all female races of dragon/cat/whatever people either.

>Lords of Xulima
oh wow, it's made by the they are billions guys. is it any good? i want your personal impressions, user

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Still Christian.

Delete that shit, nigga. That thing is cursed.

People don't want to play shitty combat systems from the 90s.
They want the story telling and world building from the 90s.
Modern CRPGs decided to do the opposite, and make worlds as bland and PC as modern games, and stick awful clunky 90s combat systems onto them.

It’s a niche genre. The general public prefers action rpgs.

Yes, I know, just saying this garbage was invented by protestants and anglos in particular.

Nothing really. PoE and DOS are both great series.

Dilate

>Original Sin
Dogshit schizo writing combined with arbitrary intended order of doing quests and exploring areas which is communicated only through enemy levels.
>Pillars
Garbage RPG system with everything giving small boost to everything, lore dumps, boring setting, boring spells (except ciphers'). Tries too hard to copy Baldur's Gate.
>Nu-Wasteland
>Nu-Torment
Bragging to much about being muh spiritual successors and saviors of the genre.
>Beamdogshit
Fags trying to fix what isn't broken while breaking shit along the way.
>Baldur's Gate 3
Not making Icewind Dale 3 instead.

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nobody cares about the general public, the general public buys and plays games from the "video game industry" their opinion does not matter, or really shitty indie-games, take your pick, they are still awful and should not be catered towards.

they all just copied the Baldur's Gate formula ignoring all the cRPGs that came before it. I hope they stay dead.

Divinity OS II is pretty much the only modern CRPG that I really love. But CRPGs just don't do it for me. I have gone through a laundry list of probably 15 old classic CRPGs like Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate II, and the only one that I liked enough to finish was Fallout 1. Out of the newer CRPGs like Pillars and Pathfinder I only liked Divinity OS II enough to finish it.

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This
Divinity is the only game that actually felt like something new, even though it's far from fucking perfect
Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Pathfinder, none of these games are fucking better than the ones they're trying to copy from 15 years ago, what's the point?

Kingmaker is literally the only cRPG so far to be better than BG2 at certain points.
Nevermind the fact its bigger than the entire BG saga by itself.

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So, your post.

I found out I like JRPGs better. the C&C that wRPG players love I find tedious and not interesting.

>We've gotten a bunch of good games out of it

Yeah. These threads pop up occasionally but it's more filling some troll "what went wrong?" quota

Fey genocide best day of my life

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Why are you such a miserable c*nt

Any other game like from this list? I already plmost of those all(aside from age of decadence which only reason i'm refraining is for being too short), only really hated atom rpg for the wiki dialogue, the first 5 is one of my best game of the decade

>age of decadence
It's shorter but has a ton of replay value and I imagine pretty cheap, now.

Because it used fantasy races like elves and dwarves which is fun.

A female character who is supposed to be strong because she acts like a cunt, or a gay character who acts like a total faggot is not fun

>Garbage RPG system with everything giving small boost to everything
Who thought "hurp durp str increases spell damage" was a good idea

I was annoyed in Summerset ESO (or even among altmer in general) there was absolutely no homophobia whatsoever in a society based on selective breeding and marriage.

>INT increases buff time
>le smart barbarian

Delusional boomers who thinks that people consider roleplay when assigning stats in RPG vidiyagames.

This.

Dude it's fantasy.

>race relations
Orcs truly are the niggers of most fantasy settings.

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There's even an Altmer tranny in Summerset DLC

I got a question, why did isometric become the standard for CRPGs instead of first-person blobber/dungeon crawler? I'm looking at old games, and there are a huge amount of high quality FPP games compared to isometric ones, but the revival seems to focus exclusively on isometric.

A lot went wrong. Tons of mediocre games with even more mediocre plots. A disturbing obsession with balance that cross contaminated from mmorpgs. Left wing politics.

Probably most importantly, the community seems to have forgotten the best wRPG toolset out there and has left the creation of new games to actual idiots in the industry.

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Yeah. Imagine that.

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You pretty much said it yourself, because it's a crpg revival, not a dungeon crawler revival.

The best ones were all isometric.

Literally who gives a shit. I'm fairly sure no one with this image saved has played more than 3 crpgs.

Kingmaker is a completely ass backwards game on it's own right to say nothing of compared to BG2, give me a break

Being straight is the normal state of humanity. Why wouldn't it be the standard state in gaming?

What other mental illnesses do you want to pander to in games? Acrophobia?

Why would they play games that cater to the mentally ill?

So I shouldn't bother playing Might and Magic, Wizardry, Lands of Lore - any of that shit?

They don't play games. CRPGs have been out for 20+ years and they haven't played even 3 because they're underage politics obsessed morons.
Play whatever you want. Dungeon crawlers are fine, they're just not CRPGs and imo not as good as isometric ones.

It seems being retarded is your normal state.

What makes them not CRPGs?

They just generally referred to as dungeon crawlers. Don't ask my how genre names happen.

>What went wrong?

The bad games failed, the good games succeeded.

Hate that retards only discovered Underrail only due to some cringe YouTuber. kys if you're reading this and that's the case.

Icewind Dale is dog shit, kys

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>Icewind Dale is dog shit
why?

Sawyers dog shit fingerprints

Also making your own party has always been a meme.

elaborate

Man, your shit taste is a meme.

>elaborate

BG2

I know it triggers you sawyerites that they knew how to write interesting party members

dunderrated

Fair enough.

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Just play underrail.

Who gives a shit about the official meme spouting party members? BG characters are all trash.

The try to mutated a niche genre to a mainstream one. Focusing on consoles.

accurate

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Give ME Valerie! Valerie IS my BEST wife!

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There's the entire shitshow involving the Baldur's Gate "enhanced edition"

>Baldur's Gate
Anomen is worst character. Only thing I disappoint is female protagonist can only just choose this shit.

>"If these kiddies are playing Obsidian games at 17 or 18, then when they get older they will go on to enjoy Dragon Age II."

Why not just play Dragon Age: Origins ?

Wait for BG3. I can already see the gamepad friendly hud and combat system.

i forgot beamdog still exist

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Solasta is trying to, but I don't think their kickstarter ia gonna make it.

youtu.be/4aUMt5xemeI

>imagine being a retard
I can't, but I'm on Yea Forums so I see 'people' that are.

>mfw putting the gender girdle on that strong independant captain girl then using disintegrate right before her kid

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What an argument.

>Siege of Draginspear
They really fucked Baldurs Gate fans with that one. Glad Wotc realized Beamdog was full of sjw dipshits and gave BG3 to someone else

That's straight up projection given the sales figures of media catering to trannies.

If anything it's best time for CRPG. Tons of them are now on market.

>we will never get someone who takes Fallouts SPECIAL system, hex grid, and simple minimal easy to use UI and evolve it
>we will never get someone who tries to do something like Jade Empire again
>we will never get real art direction again
>everything will look like bland unity assets humping eachother
>we will continually get lame baldurs gate remakes until the end of time
>my options are support games i don't like or let genre die

What the fuck man. How do people even play Pillars of Ambien? Its so fucking dull im falling asleep by the time i get to the first city. Its all the same generic crap now. I hate how the eternity engine combat

Lantern king sucked cock. He doesn't do anything interesting he's just big numbers that aren't even all that big once you get a few crits going. Really the biggest threat at that point is you not bringing optimized martials.

Too much BG worship, not enough blubber worship. Too bad M&M is dead, and only japs care about Wizardry anymore. Might bite the bullet and try Grimoire when it's on sale.

Has anything ran by Dark elves ever not been a shit hole?

Jade empire was bad and I'm a sucker for Wuxia

>blobber
Yes I'm shitposting at work and and got screwed by autocorrect.

What! Silk Fox IS a CUTE wife user! (She is! She is!)

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U fukken wot m8 since Grimrock there has been a new blobber every other month.

I have no prebuff or cc. My party has zero magic users. Aside from the useless vampire. I think she does have a buff but even using that buff the characters hardly make contact

Dealing with the first bug swjarm made me want to drop the game. After i did that the correct way it felt completely flat and like i cheated.

Then there was the ridiculous boar with that dumbass barbarian girl. And now i have to fight a treant bear and my party cant even touch it once.

Why is the hit chance so insanely low

You just posted the only nice looking place in Warsaw.

SSI went under and with them the greats were lost

Too many party systems. They are unfun as fuck.
Give me control of ONE character that I can build deeply, like what Age of Decadence or Underrail do

>there are people who really think that crpgs are not exclusively rtwp combat
jesus fucking christ

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Thats not the point

Too many single player focused games with companions and the like
crpgs need to go back to full player party creation

What's the best one? Seriously, I'm running a cheap toaster I bought from my friend and need some more shit.

im getting mixed messages here

Might and Magic 4 and 5

Stonekeep is real time. Checkmate atheists.
>all crpgs are isometric
Please don't be retarded on purpose.

the mount & blade series are excellent rpgs they just don't have diceroll mechanics
the isometric high fantasy genre more or less died out but there's still the ES series and similar

I've played tons of 4-6 already, I guess I was thinking more recent titles.

>more recent titles.
Grimoire
Legends of Amberland

>I have no casters to cc or buff
>why is this giant bear killing me I don't get it
Yo grug, maybe try a different game or set the difficulty to story. I don't think pathfinder is for you.

It’s also shit.

What am i even supposed to do? I was never given any casters.

if Stonekeep is a crpg then crpg is a useless term, what else is a crpg, anvil of dawn, Lands of lore? because if you say yes, then no, you're wrong and you smell.

lrn2read faggot

BG3 will save us lads

is there any games that ever played around with party size mechanics?
for instance you've multiple ways to complete a mission and can bring a lot of party members with you, but sometimes that's not the best way to do it, like a stealth mission
other times you may want to use some of your companions to setup a base, an ambush, or a road block or something and go off and do whatever

>New vegas peak is 30k
What

not if they make it turn based

Elf at the bar let's you buy mercenaries. Go make one. Alternatively wander around the river forest until you walk into the technic league and get two casters that way. Alternatively look for touch spell wands and scrolls and pump umd since most large monsters have a touch ac of like 8.

They won't

I liked Sword Coast Legends and Pillars of Eternity, there's still a niche market out there.

Imagine being an actual baiting faggot on an anonymous image board.
Kill yourself, my man.

So the only option in pathfinder is to make your main character a mage because the game doesnt provide any casters to you?
How is this a crpg

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

I don't think the charts have data that old. 30k was probably well after release.

I will never understand hate for real time combat. Is this /tg/ thing? I enjoy both.

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Unironically zoom zooms.

>You're not lawful good? Here, let me kill half of your party before the "endboss"
>You wanted a meaningful and interesting true ending? Nah, just repeat the whole game, but in a nightmare version
> You play a spallcaster and/or brought spellcasters with you? Sorry kiddo, magic is turned off, should've read the online guide beforehand
Loved the game, but fuck both the ending and the extended ending

Dude we're level 3. We dont fucking have anything in the way of money. And i have a worse chance against the technic league than this bear.

Basically my only option in this crpg is to grind and hope for drops

Why do people hang signs on their pets when the pets obviously can't understand them?

Wrong.

I bought PoE and PoE2 when they were on sale recently. PoE is fine, the fan pandering is annoying but you can ignore it. I actually didn't mind the re-imagining of the D&D system; some things clearly didn't work (might=spells), but I liked the move away from stupid minmax builds that everyone plays classic infinity engine games. PoE2 though... fucking hell. 50% of the story is intriguing and fun, though the other half is just "colonialism is bad". The amount of SJW inserts is crazy too, exacerbated by some fucking shit tier writing. Most 'roleplay' options aren't roleplaying, it's just 3 ways to say what the writer wants you to say.

I think the biggest things which hold back CRPGs nowadays are poor writing and no clear design ethos. It doesn't help that most CRPG writers are lefty softies and the audience is classic gamers (not this new breed of gamers which is essentially twitch whores and trannies).

This.
Its zoom zooms larping what they believe a hardcore crpg player is.

>he liked poe
Holy fuck how
Can you give me what settings and mods you used to find poe enjoyable

You cant have a crpg with both dull combat and generic writing. And this is where all modern takes suffer

I don't see what's inherently wrong with it. It's not a great game, I'll probably never play it again but for ~30 hours of a story it's fine.

I enjoy and will happily play both but i still prefer one over the other.
I've not played PoE2 but i'd assume i'd like it better in turn based mode rather than in real time.

Turn the difficulty down then. No shame in doing that, right?

Its snoresville.
After playing POE i told my doctor my insomnia was cured.
I no longer need to buy ketamine or codeine, I just play POE.
I dont take my meds now because a quick session of POE knocks me right out of any psychosis

There are 3 kinds of shitty games, and only 1 kind of good games.

1) Casual consolitis disease garbage for zoom-zooms
2) Nostalgiafaggotry full of outdated mechanics for the sake of it
3) Generic garbage with zero creativity
4) Innovative games pushing the genre forward

Most CRPGs these days belong to 2nd and 3rd category

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user Kingsmaker is pretty brutal like underrail. You better to down difficulty or min max and know what to do

Thanks.
You're right.
>rpg
>on a computer
What the fuck is the metric for calling something a crpg then? Is this the same faggotry as people arguing DaS being a jrpg or not?

>hates that people discovered underrail
Why are you so stupid?

CRPG works perfectly on consoles tho.

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I shouldn't have to. Crpgs shouldnt be made like this where if you just want to play a fighter you're fucked.
Itd be one thing if i was losing due to bad strategy but theres just nothing i can do unless i go grind or turn the difficulty down. That is shitty crpg design no matter what you say. They should have built the early game around the very limited iptions a level 3 has

you're being a lil shit right now and you know it, soon you're going to tell me MOBA or ART's are a broad genre also.

>insomnia
Imagine being such a loser that you can't even sleep.

Then you suck at pathfinder bro. The game fucking dumps gold and sellable shit on you and being totally frank I bodied that bear at level 2 with no buffs, if your party sucks so much shit that the fucking bear has walled you legit give up now because you're not going to finish the game and you're wasting your time.

If you told me 20 years ago that id still be hearing about baldurs gate and it getting ported to modern cultures i think id quit video games and write the medium off.

All i did was follow the reccomended paths for the party members. My main character is literally min maxed only for hitting things and he still cant land a hit

Explain your reasoning.

They packed planescape with ID. It's kinda make sense considering planescape's lack of combat

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THIS IS WHAT I WAS WEARING
TELL ME I DESERVED IT

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cRPGs are the hardest games to create in modern world - they rely the least on established toolsets and working practices and the most on vision, creativity and passion, which are in modern world almost shunned.
Add spoiled children and adults to the mix - and now 80% of your budget is just graphics and voice acting just to make your game marketable.
You can see this most easily in Age of Decadence and Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Both games were almost entirely dedicated to make themselves playable since launch, so that noone even bothered to finish everything that was left unwritten to the story.

>Owlcat diversity
Yeah I can see that lone cthulu motherfucker is only there to fill out that quota

The recommended paths suck shit because owl cat hates you and wants you to fail. Also post build.

Kingmaker's the best RPG on the list except for maybe Kingdom Come.

This game is pretty okay. At least it tried to do something slightly different in a CRPG. Holy fuck though Obsidian should never make a setting again after PoE.

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over there

Turns out CRPGs weren't that good to begin with

>game

>not recognizing Obsidian shitposter shizo

>I shouldn't have to.
You don't have to, i could play a fighter and would not have to, it's because you're shit at the game that you should turn down the difficulty not because the game is shit.
You sound incredibly whiny 2bh. An idiot too proud to accept any solution so it must just be unsolvable.

Go play something else, maybe fifa or cod or something.

I loved PoE, I enjoyed PoE2, I want to believe Microsoft will let Obsidian make a PoE3....

Divinity OS and OS2 were good but they had none of the crpg magic or soul that the infinity engine games had. I couldn't immerse myself in them for that reason.

Tyranny was good but short.

Didn't play the new Torment, or Age of Decadence...

are you for real

Tell me what I am doing wrong.

CRPG bre

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Get rid of real time combat in CRPGs. It's janky and not fun to play. The Divinity: OS games really nailed what CRPG combat should feel like.

no

it not my fault man. im trying., im tryin greally hard. its not my fault. i genuinely think i was dropped on my head as a baby and even if i wasnt i suffered a super hard hit to the head in middle school with concrete. i would gladly learn from someone better than CRPGs than me. jus ttell me how to jump

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Your STR should be 20 but I digress. When you said designed for hitting I assumed you meant a 2h fighter. With this pack of goobers his DR will wreck you. Go talk to bokken and buy a bunch of acid flasks and dump them all over the bear until he's dead.

No it won't.

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whats wrong with the rest of the party?

>It's janky and not fun to play.
it is fun, the infinity engine games were fun. fuck you turn based niggers so desperate to homogenised the entire genre.

Why the fuck must turn based fags draw what could be a 1 minute encounter in to a 5 minute back and forth slog. what a fucking waste of time.

>str should be 20
i wanted to at least roleplay in my own head a little bit.

>Icewind Dale is dog shit

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Jaethal should pump inflict wounds since it's touch. Valerie can go in first and tank the thing, amiri is pretty standard amiri though I will say her base path doesn't give her focus or specialization in that bastard sword she carries. Legit if that doesn't work just go buy flasks. Pause the game and open the fight with all 4 throwing one.

thats what i did for the boar and it still took an insane amount of tries and dicerolls
the issue being that the flask throwers got killed before they could make a significant dent

Shouldn't have played pathfinder friend.

can these games be called something other than RPG then :( maybe like spreadsheet progression resolutions or something

>you're being a lil shit right now and you know it
What the fuck are you on about. Did I miss the memo that crpg's are exclusively BG clones?

inflict wounds barely ever hits and even if it misses the thing just turns around and decimates her before a heal can even go off(not that i even have a healer)

That's the danger of pathfinder kingmaker. You need a caster ASAP. In the meantime cheat out fights however you can. Also expect a shitload of reloads on anything past normal if you aren't min maxed out the ass and use default companions.

calm down there son, maybe one day you'll have a job of your own and you wont mind women ignoring you.

>Also expect a shitload of reloads on anything past normal if you aren't min maxed out the ass and use default companions.
If you still can't make it work after like level 4 then you're doing something wrong, even on max difficulty.

At least until the touch attack brigade shows up endgame. Fuck those guys.

you were 5 at most twenty years ago, stop kidding yourself

Not saying you're wrong. Kingmaker has a shitload of trap character options that will make the game impossible if you don't know the system. It's not a particularly friendly game for newcomers.

thats not really fun though.
anyway I keep getting bad performance for some reason, the game keeps stuttering and having a lowish framerate so I think I'll put it off for now.
I don't really believe in that kind of crpg experience. I think owl cat kind of failed here on the early game to not really provide and real caster. also the companion writing has been rather bland.
I dont really see it as this crpg savior but i guess it is my only fucking option

this is everything I dont like about bg. you have to rad 200 pages of manual to craft a char. then fail the game twice to craft a good party. then read an online guide of 20 pages of broken Engrish to create a party that can survive hard.

i forgot how garbage the in-game recommended feats are

The ghostly guards can suck my cock, yes. Literally harder than LK. Keep in mind though that I said unoptimized and using default path companions like that user. If you could play through the game on unfair with an all martial all premade owlcat build party without save editing or anything then I'd probably wire you 100 bucks for the sheer mind numbing determination.

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i havent played many crpg's but what about something smooth like warcraft 3

You are like a baby.

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No, Baldur's Gate 2 with SCS nailed forever what CRPG combat should be, but plebs have never tried it and would get wrecked if they did, then cry about it.
Both for short fights and for the most challenging, drawn out and precise late game encounters.
Divinity OS is a fucking meme with low replay value in comparison

I did play unmodded with the default characters, though I obviously didn't follow the recommended build path for them because there were obvious dumb choices in there. And I did have two spellcasters.

Nothing. CRPGs were never really good in the first place. Real-time with pause is a shit combat system that attempts to combine the fluidity of real-time combat with the strategy of turn-based combat and excels at neither.

>NEO Scavenger
can't recommend enough. Best post-apocalyptic experience. Word of advice: chip bags are precious

i miss when games had fantasy politics and not modern bullshit and theres too many diversity

All of the "LMAO YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN HOW TO BUILD YOUR CHARACTER BEFORE YOU EVEN STARTED THE GAME RETARD" posts in this thread are why CRPGs died.

What the fuck are you talking about? Correctly placing the "Grease" spell wins 90% of all fights in Chapter 1.

You gotta believe

Hey genius if he doesn't have a wand and umd which of his 4 fucking fighters casts grease you worthless retard.

Not everyone has grease

>Baldur's Gate 2 with SCS nailed forever what CRPG combat should be,
>RTwP

This seems like a problem of designing busywork for the sake of busywork. If something takes a minute of real time whacking or 5 minutes of turn based whacking because it was inconsequential maybe it shouldn't have been there. That shit should be left to the JRPGs

Let me quote you:
"Heya, it's me, a retard. How can I play a game set within a high fantasy universe, where half the people are either shitting out magic spells or carrying magic items, and completely ignore this absolutely fundamental part of the game."

Maybe you should also fight bare-handed? Or not use potions?

Guys I need help I saw this, still in development, CRP posted here months ago. It said it was inspired by classics like Baldur's Gate and was a full sandbox RPG with hardcore rogue like elements.
I don't think it has even reached public alpha status but it looked amazing, crips and realistic graphics and the promise of a real roleplay sandbox experience enticed me. Graphics were maybe similar to Pathfinder but not as cartooney.

Nigger read the chain or kill yourself, preferably both.

In fairness, the original iteration specifically said you should be able to beat most things with just Fighters. Fighters are supposed to be a strong class that can stand on their own merits.

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Wow, such a clever, insightful response! I'm glad I've found this rarely used quote by you yourself, user!
Sorry, I can't kill myself, since I'm already dead! And I'll visit you as soon as you go to sleep! See you in your dreams! :)

Can some anons help a pleb out? I really loved Neverwinter nights 1 & 2, DAO, and DOS 1 &2. I tried to pick up Pillars Deadfire, but found the story really lacking and the gameplay just dull. Mechanically, I didn't have many problems with Pillars, but the characters and story really left me wanting. I'm downloading sword coast legends now to give that a try, anything else?

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But I think the normal experience of someone who hits a wall in a game is, if not to move on to something they like more, to consider modifying what you are doing to overcome the challenge. For example, thinking to yourself "maybe I could win this fight if I had more tools. what tools are available to me right now in the game, that work together with and bolster my current strategy?" Even if that ultimately means restarting your party of four fighters to include, I dunno, one of something other than a fighter. If I'm roleplaying in a game that has a huge variety of classes, I might consider, as a person living in that world, that I need more than one tactic since I will certainly be facing more than one type of enemy.

>Fighters are supposed to be a strong class that can stand on their own merits.
were
mages started overshadowing them pretty quickly as DnD moved forwards

Good, kill me too please you fucking ghost.

Pillars of Eternity shat their bed when they decided to make PoE II a direct sequel, which was completely unnecessary, obviously tacked on (you chase a walking statue, for God's sake), took away all the achievements of the protagonist by a LITERAL "rock falls, everyone dies", took away all character progression via a LITERAL deus ex statua. In other words, the sequel invalidated the first game in every possible way.

>sword coast legends
please don't
it's terrible

if you want modern stuff, Kangmaker is great
try the Infinity Engine games as well

Nah, user, I can't do that! :) I don't want to see your sad face when you die, come here, and you'll hear "so, how was it back there, in Heaven?" It'll BREAK you. :)

Are you coming onto me?

Even dead people aren't pathetic enough to touch YOU, user. No one is. :)

>play Dragon Age: inquisition
>I can be a literal soul sucking necromancer blood mage only out for personal power
>Bull Brings up his tranny soldier
>My only dialogue options are to show approval heavily or show approval lightly

Wew lad what a time to be alive.

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Love how easy it is to get (you)s with simple shit like this

Thanks RP ghost. Unironically made my day better.

holy shit you have some pathetically bad taste: Pathfinder, NV, Pillars, Div 2, Kingdom Come.

Are you fitting in yet with the hivemind? How darey ou even comment about how people like what. you're pathetic.

I'll wait on installing Sword coast then, I had a bad feeling about it with the reviews anyways.
I'll grab kingmaker. They aren't in the crpg category of course, but I find myself going back to Kotor 1&2, NWN 1&2, DAO, and DOS 1&2. I even tried Dragon age inquisiton and that was god awful. Why can't I find good rpgs anymore? Am I the problem? High hopes for kangmaker.

>RTWP

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Its a major part of it.

This is what I hate most about you "people". I don't care about trannies, they don't play games. Neither do people who obsess with them.

why would larian do that? All their sales are on pc.

I've been playing CRPGs since 99% of this board was born. Only very recently have I seen whining about RTWP. I guarantee if I looked into it some fucking youtuber whined about it. You dumb cunts don't have your own opinions.

Dilate

Actual babies still whine about it, I have no idea why so many retards still have trouble with RTWP.

>why would game have straight people
Because its normal and fag shit is an irregularity

I used to play games. Still play old ones.

Not my fault the industry produces nothing but garbage.

cRPG is a useless term if you use it so broadly, it means baldur's gate, fallout, etc.. those kind of games, anything else and the term is worthless

How does a 2H crit fighter or Paladin fare? I always hear you basically have to play a mage in Kingmaker

>Sildar Halwinter

You mean Barry Bluejeans.

Is there any way to play DM mode maps like Phandelver solo?

>Buggy Gate 3

I don't have problems playing RtWP, my problem is that it's fucking shit compared to just real time or turn based combat.

This

I heard the same during Diablo III development.

How? Jrpg is a pretty fucking broad term in 2019.

I don't mind gender politics in a game if it makes sense within the setting it's happening in. Like if you made a game set during the time when the women's rights movement or whatever was starting to pick up steam? It would make sense.

transmisoginy, jezus these niggers are almost as bad as gamergaytors.

Genres die for a reason.

>ahh.. baldur's gate my favourite medieval video game
Reactionaries not even once.

It was more than just Pillars but
"Fuck God or all the Gods, they're all fake"
"Godless savages have more of the truth but they're still stupid"
"Everybody should just fuck each other all the time"
and of course
"When the going gets tough fight the system even if that means destroying yourself and everything you know on some off-chance that it makes things better "
Kind of send ripples through the genre

What timeframe is this "revival"? 1980-2019?

It's pathfinder

Of course a Mage is better

This man singlehandedly dragged CRPGs into the modern day.

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I would say CRPGs have been revived. There have been consistent CRPG releases for the past few years, and some of them are even good games. Underrail & Age of Decadence are both good games. Sure the AAA stuff will always have their quirks, like having politics shoehorned in, but as a whole I say the genre has had its Renaissance.

>You're not lawful good? Here, let me kill half of your party before the "endboss"
thats not even true, if you go lawfull good or as close as you can be every time some companion die regardless.
Making alligments and locking endings like that was retarded and i love pathfinder KM.
Also they should give you and option for every alligment when you decide something which the game didnt do enough.

>Gender politics and lgbt was invented by christian nations coming out of the closet.
how come stuff like that existed way before christianity?

I mean even BG had paladins, particularly inquisitors, as a very competitive option. And martials were just fine in NWN2 and that was based on 3.5. Is Kingmaker really so caster slanted?

>Magic is turned off
He just prevents prebuffing, magic still works fine.

i didnt play pathfinder (the pen and paper) for years but pathfinder is basiacly has a super autistic focus on battle (which was one of the reasons i drop it).
Magic users are just the easiest to break

Chad

I for one love D:OS2. I just wished the first act wasn't so slow.

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Pillars doesn’t have sjw themes, I seriously cannot remember the game notably doing anything but people act like it’s sjw because you have a black woman party member.

is OS 1 worth playing or can I start with 2?

PoE as a system breaks in turn based mode in a lot of ways, the game isn’t really meant for it even though it’s an option.

Probably the most reddit game I've played in 3 years

They aren't directly related

They did remove some relatively inoffensive limerick because homos complained about it.

>restarting the game
Thats not a change in strategy dude. That's hitting the nuke button and its not my fault the game gives you nothing but fighters

It’s good, but 2 is leaps and bounds better. They aren’t at all related so feel free to start with 2.

It had more to do with their pandering to the tranny loon who saw transphobia everywhere and then banning a ton of backers in the forums who criticized them for their handling of the entire situation.

Did you even read the dialogue?

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gave gives you nothing but nonmagical people early game aside from one mediocre hybrid magic/fighter

Yeah. The 2nd game had a communist matriarchy that was explicitly a failure surviving on outside help. That’s not sjw themes.

Octavia, Linzi, Regnogar all have good enough casting and you get two pure divine spellcasters.

How often do you visit reddit that you use it as an adjective?

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Remember the gay dude talking about his buttplugs? What about the other gay dude you have to talk to for a quest that's written like a barely functioning autist that you can immediately start hitting on like it's grindr?

What about that gay dude that sneaks up on you while you're sleeping and starts getting naked that you have to tell to leave?

this guy gets it

I have no idea who those characters are aside from Linzi who left my party in the beginning in the game because despite playing as the goodest possible person I could and saving the soldiers in a fire I made some offhand comment and she left.

That honestly sounds like something that would happen in LISA.

I literally don’t remember that and even then gay deviant in the game doesn’t make the game sjw, it just means there’s a fag in the game.

Not nearly as bad as having some drunken 60 year old pirate with rotten teeth and a bad stench sneak into your quarters thinking he's going to get a quick lay

Sexual degeneracy isn't SJW? What about siding with the natives which is essentially the Anarchy route?

>we will never have an RPG with a simple easy to access skill and tribute system with minimal but very industrial efficient ui that doesnt get in your face or have obnoxious graphics
>that rpg wont have 5 classes, Human fighter, human rogue, human wizard, Elf, Dwarf.

Since I'm apparently the only one with a set of balls on this board, I'll let you know that shit is cross posted between here and reddit daily. But yes, let's all pretend we have it blocked and heil moot or whatever to feel superior in the only way our lives will allow.

is this game good

Gay OPTIONS isn’t sjw. Sjw shit is when the game forces it on you with a very clear agenda.

i dont browse reddit because i couldnt really figure out how the UI worked at all. also who the fuck has the time to browse both Yea Forums and reddit

>Since I'm apparently the only one with a set of balls on this board
Have a (You).

What about the message of the story being "destroying all foundations of society is sometimes a good thing"
>forces it on you
You have to pretty much remove party members or not even bother picking them up if you don't want to get hit on

Ah, a bit further in she'll be back. The start basically sets you up for which of the x characters you will start with and the rest show up later for reasons
Actual spoiler don't make Linzi a prominent member of your party or you'll have a bad time at the end

You throw firebolt harder

I'm playing through Kingmaker right now, and while it has some things I don't love, it really does have a lot of great stuff that makes me remember that CRPGs can be different, interesting, and keep you engaged.

Whereas DivOS2 had a great opening act which slowly slid into mediocre late game ideas, Kingmaker has a really slow and plodding first act which really opens up later on into a lot of cool things. Specifically, I like that while there is the Good/Evil, Lawful/Chaotic axioms, the motivations and desires of the characters are not simply "This faction is good" and "This faction is bad guys".

It's really hard though because you can tell with Kingmaker that they really, really tried to write dialogue for EVERYTHING, and that is going to take so much time that it forces you to cut corners elsewhere. DivOS was the same way but they spent all their time on detailing the land of their opening act.

I'm gonna try Underrail next because it looks like it has a lot of cool things to it.

Oh yeah, the courage do browse reddit.

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i cant get further in because i have no casters

How in the fuck do you screw up so bad that Linzi, the Chaotic Good Bard who literally has a ring that prevents her from dying specifically because she's the narrator of the game, leaves your group?

Nigga I've been playing the game blind and I've managed to get the good ending for every single companion in the game (except Harrim because I should have kept him from breaking everything, so who knows how that'll play out) without trying.

You can't get further than the fucking tutorial?

She joined the obviously fucking evil gnome mage who everyone just said is a likely traitor because despite the fact I saved the day and went out of my way to risk my life to save guard from a literal burning building I was kinda mean for one sentence that wasnt even addressing her

I told you im stuck on the bear

Sounds like you're the worst at video games.

Bro. You can get a scroll of Fireball. Or wand of Burning Hands or some shit. You have Valerie who should have way higher AC unless you somehow decided to not maker her a Tower Shield Fighter for some reason, and you can use potions and spells to buff up before the fight. Let me guess, you're just plowing in, getting stomped because you don't know how AoOs work, and then reloading and trying the same thing again?

I dont have the ability to use any of those magical items and Valerie gets decimated. she doesnt really tank in the traditional sense. shes just a body to get mowed down while people try to hit the thing at least once

>I dont have the ability to use any of those magical items and Valerie gets decimated. she doesnt really tank in the traditional sense
Bro. Invest in UMD, jesus.

Also, have you tried leveling up in another area and coming back? Is this your first RPG ever? Why do I have to explain this?

Casters aren't mandatory, they just make shit easier.
You can trial and error that shit to victory with flasks or just lower the difficulty for the fight and move on but learn from the mistake.
Shit, let everybody sit in a corner and endlessly send Jaethal out to die repeatedly until she wins.

its a bit late to invest in umd mate unless im a time traveler.
>grinding in a crpg
thats ridiculous
wait, Jaethal comes back?

Go ahead and look into Jaethal's list of traits and shit. There's a reason she has no CON stat.

>playing pathfinder with the intend to roleplay

>>grinding in a crpg
>thats ridiculous

Bro, rule number fucking one of RPGs: Some shit will be too tough for you (usually because you're bad at understanding the rules of the game and building decent characters), so you can always leave and come back later. It literally tells you this right on the load screen.

This is how RPGs work. This is how they've always worked. Just mashing your face into a fight you keep losing over and over and then complaining that the game's too hard is YOUR FAULT.

Nah. someone getting completely screwed over because they didnt look up outside material beforehand on the game is 100% the games fault.

What? I've never had to grind in a CRPG in my entire life. Are you from an alien planet?

Who told you that there are no game overs in video games?

who told the designers to make such a poor early game?

>Nah. someone getting completely screwed over because they didnt look up outside material beforehand on the game is 100% the games fault.

Everything about how the system works is told to you in the game. Everything about every class you can take levels in, every bonus, every feat, it's all written right there for you to read.

You don't need to know how to play Pathfinder beforehand just like you don't need to know how to play D&D 2E before playing Baldur's Gate because it fucking tells you. What you do need to do, is actually read and have some comprehension of what you're clicking instead of mashing buttons to get through with it as fast as possible.

And yet, it's been a loading screen tip on every game in the genre since the early 90s. Just because you've never had to do it doesn't mean shit. You clearly need to do it fucking now.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS FAILING.

Even in non monotheistic societies gays and trans are not always treated well. Plus there are many other issues on which those societies, and war torn, uneducated, feudal, messed up fantasy counterparts may differ from a number of modern political ideals. Being judgmental, biased, and ignorant are things that all people can be. In a fantasy setting people very often don't have well developed sciences, nor do they receive much in the way of education, nor mass communication with others of differing ideas. That doesn't mean we need to see the same biases and political disagreements we see now in that fantasy setting though. It's fiction, it can be different, but it makes sense for there to be some kind of social issues of some type.

With real gods things can change quite a lot, but gods may be all sorts of different and alien and immoral. A god of destruction may not care for us and what we do so long as we sacrifice to appease them. If the gods are very very powerful and very good and very protective of us such as to make the people in fantasy land live in ideal societies, that's probably not a good setting. If divine Superman snaps his fingers and solves all problems perfectly then that takes a lot of the drama and conflict out of the setting.

Well, why are you still playing it? I haven't played Pathfinder. I'm not going to, because I know what I like.
But if I did play it, I would restart the game if I got stonewalled, because that's a thing that happens in video games sometimes. It's not as big a deal as you're making it out.

Are any of the DLC for Pathfinder worth it?

No

I finally just finished the SR:HK bonus campaign after not playing since release (Seriously, I took off work to play it when it came out, it was great), it seems like the writing changed a bit in transition. For example, Ractor is more expressive and not his impassive distant observer self, Gobbet becomes more moody with you, while Duncan chills out quite a bit. Maybe that was intentional character development after the postgame, but it feels more like the writers changed.

It was still a lot of fun though, but the entire SR run was pretty easy in difficulty since there's nothing limiting you from going all in on a combat skill and making it a joke. For example, I had Drone Combat 9 a little past halfway through the campaign and my two close range automatic drones had around 75% accuracy on full-auto attacks no matter the range, along with four AP each. One or two enemies per turn would die to them alone.

Meanwhile, the support abilities like Decking, Charisma, etc could be handled with only the smallest investments into them due to the nature of how they worked. So long as you had the right etiquette and met the minimum stat check for speech (The highest I know of was like a 6 for any skill), you could breeze your way through the game without missing hardly anything. It's really lame when you want to specialize in decking or something but there's just not any reason to go beyond five or six points in it.

Also, HK had a fuckton of dialog, almost all of it was interesting, but a lot of times I just felt like I wanted to get back to combat or running. Didn't help that a few runs (Walled City 1, Whompona, Deckcon, almost all of disrupt Fung Shui tower) had no combat in them if you passed the speech checks, and initiating combat would lead to lower rewards as well. So it was really just tons of exposition in Heoi followed by some speech checks on a run followed by more Heoi dialog.

I think you're wrong user. This isn't good game design. This is bad. If you have to follow a guide to build a character that wont straight up lose every fight, that's bad. If the feats the game recommends you take are trash, that's bad game design. If having a caster is such an important component to the combat, but the game designers don't give you one. That's bad game design.
>oh but you did start with one
She left in a way that made no sense story wise and last time we met up she still didn't want to join despite complaining 5 seconds ago about how terrible the obviously evil gnome is to work with.
That's bad writing. And bad game design.
I get that you're desperate for CRPGs but to ignore the faults of Pathfinder and its countless beginner traps for the sake of some 'gitgud' philosophy sets the entire genre back. These are not problems baldurs gate had. Not to this extent and not this early.
The early game has failed and collapsed.

why the hell wont you play it if you're in this thread.
play with valerie!

>If you have to follow a guide
Lower the difficulty, you aren't prepared or willing to endure what it will throw at you. The greater the difficulty the more the min-max bullshit is a requirement, which means learning the systems the game is built upon. There's an expectation of familiarity. You can raise it later after you've got your bearings and can proceed with confidence.

Didn't read further, doubt there was much point.

Why are you in a discussion if you refuse to listen

I'm very bad at CRPGs (I've never actually even finished one) and never played pathfinder before but I find KM to be very fun with lots of cool options for classes. Are they all good options? No, but the game lets me try shit out and even has a respec system in case i shit the bed with a bad class choice that doesn't work (like my attempt at making a dark kineticist).

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I've read it since and I was right. What now?
The game has broken your ego and you're too prideful to accept it.

Nah. Wrong. Sorry.

Is it okay to kill Khalid just to have free access to Jaheira or is there a better druid out there?

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It's not the game's fault if you lack common sense, besides, PF rules are widely available with plenty of wikis on the internet for you to browse if you're somewhat that stupid to somehow mess up a character in one of the most streamlined and braindead TT ruleset of the last two decades.
PF does have a lot of shitty design decisions but none of what you mention is one.
>These are not problems baldurs gate had.
What the fuck are you talking about?
BG was even worse given how PF showers you with miniwiki explanations for fucking everything and handholds you every five seconds, BG had nothing of the sort.

>I think you're wrong user. This isn't good game design. This is bad. If you have to follow a guide to build a character that wont straight up lose every fight, that's bad.
That's not what I said and that's not true, so at this point you're shitposting which means I'm going to disregard the rest of your claims as shitposting.

>If the feats the game recommends you take are trash, that's bad game design.
So you did exactly what I said you did, you just mashed buttons because the game put a green thumbs up next to it without actually reading what the feats were or did and making any decision for yourself. Got it.

>If having a caster is such an important component to the combat, but the game designers don't give you one.
Jaethal is a spellcaster. Harrim is a spellcaster. Linzi is a spellcaster. Your PC can also be a spellcaster. The game gives you plenty, and it's also not the case that you need a spellcaster because investing even the slightest bit into AC early on will make you unhittable by most enemies in the game. That's exactly why they give you a fucking Tower Shield Fighter.

>That's bad writing. And bad game design.
Mashing dialogue options and not reading seems to be your MO.

>I get that you're desperate for CRPGs but to ignore the faults of Pathfinder and its countless beginner traps for the sake of some 'gitgud' philosophy sets the entire genre back.
Bro it's clear you've never played an RPG in your life. Don't pretend to tell me what "sets the genre back".

>These are not problems baldurs gate had. Not to this extent and not this early.
Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME. Bro you never actually played Baldur's Gate or you wouldn't be saying this at all.

>best girls are DLC
How did they get away with this?

crpgs were never good. Only obese virgins who roleplayed in their mothers basement liked them.

>besides, PF rules are widely available with plenty of wikis on the internet
What? You literally just admitted to a core problem with the game.

The only way I've messed up my character is trusting that the game developers were actually trying to be helpful. Why even have a recommended feats list at all?
This. Was. Not. An. Issue. With. BG.
source:
I've played through baldurs gate a ton and have never run into anything as bad as kingmaker's early game. Owl Cat has failed. There is nobody in 2019 making good CRPGs.

>Sensei Dex Monk
Best fucking class. Don't care about the shit start until agile fists. It's fucking worth it every time. I'm a tank, I'm a Bard and I hit hard.

It's nothing more than >the game is bad because I'm bad at the game
I'm imagining you've got it set to core rules and no negatives/bonuses for enemies. You simply aren't prepared for it. Dig deeper into the systems and find your way through.
Your options are lower the difficulty, restart or try and persevere by whatever methods at your disposal. Pick one.

Where do you think you are?

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OFFICIAL RATING

TOP TIER:
>Underrail
>Divinity Original Sin
>Pillars of Eternity 2

GOOD TIER:
>Divinity Original Sin 2
>Wasteland 2

ALRIGHT TIER:
>ATOM RPG
>Pillars of Eternity
>Expeditions: Viking

Garbage Tier:
Tides of Numenera

CYOA consolation prize:
Age of Decadence

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>in case i shit the bed with a bad class choice that doesn't work (like my attempt at making a dark kineticist).
Kinerah's base build, if you follow it, can be ok, but her sister's regular kineticist is fucking nuts for pure damage. I've got a Kineticist PC and it shits out like 300 damage blasts that one-shot almost everything. All you need to do is offset your burn and you're fine.

But almost any combination can work super fucking well. Throw a Rogue level onto Amiri or Valerie and suddenly you're power attacking Sneak Attacks with Barbarian Rage on top of it. Making Nok Nok half Barbarian makes him one of the highest damage dealers in the game.

Or go full spell-retard. Have Dragon Disciple Linzi shitting out Maximized Fireballs that obliterate anything. Or a Druid that vomits summons to flood the battlefield. This game allows you to do a surprising amount of what Pathfinder does, even without all the splats and shit.

>arguing against the status quo is being a sheep >supporting the status quo is being a free thinker

You are wrong.
>you did what i said
No, I didn't. There's no reason to assume the feats the game recommends are bad. In fact that's outright counter-intuitive. I read the feats and the seemed fine. Nothing that would result in this
>invest in AC
how can I do this more than I have? I've bought the best I can afford at level 3. I have dumped all my stats for STR DEX and CON.
>your character can be a caster
this is invalid
>there's linzi
who leaves for silly reasons that you can't forsee
>jaethal
who is a pretty worthless hybrid in my experience
>harrim
who leaves you for silly reasons you cannot forsee
>mashing dialogue options
Nah. I read them all. They all seemed reasonable in character things. I was just trying to be a good character. Sorry for roleplaying.
I have played BG and did not experience this

>TFW I spent a little bit boning Kanerah but all I really want is to make Kalikke happy.

How. I need to know.

>how can I do this more than I have?
go ahead and look at your list of potions, you probably have some really useful shit you're overlooking

>You literally just admitted to a core problem with the game.
Are you dumb?
>The only way I've messed up my character is trusting that the game developers were actually trying to be helpful
The recommended feats are for easy playthroughs, you fucking retard, if you think they are going to work on harder difficulties where stat inflation goes through the roof and you also get fixed dice rolls it's on you and you alone that you were this fucking stupid to think something explicitly tailored for game journo mode doesn't work, doubly so given how you come from BG and should be already familiar with most of the basic ruleset and feats.
>I've played through baldurs gate a ton and have never run into anything as bad as kingmaker's early game.
Because BG was a maximum casual game you could rape with fireball wands alone, no wonder.

So correct me if I'm wrong. You followed the game's recommendations. The fight is too tough for the party you get. To beat it you'd need a caster or gear it didn't teach you about. The game took away the one caster you were given. You could also exploit a special trait of one party member but you're not told about it and how it works in a fight. The fight is in the early game before you've learned enough or been given enough chances to test and learn things on your own. The fight isn't really optional.

Sounds like that encounter could be considerably more challenging than it should be. Sure, that's a flaw, but lots of RPGs have this sort of thing crop up in an encounter or two. Games aren't going to be perfect. So your criticism may be spot on but the game might still be fun and worth playing if you can find a way passed that part.

>are you dumb
For continuing to talk to a brick wall? Probably.
>are for easy playthroughs
which you have no way of knowing
>fixed dice rolls and stat inflation as the difficulty goes up
That's not fun. that's lame.
>BG was easy im so good look at me
Ok man

>spent a little bit boning Kanerah
Just so you know when people say that's the only way to get with Kalikke they're full of shit. You just have to get more than 50 affection points for her relationship to trigger, the Kanerah route is just a short cut most people stumble upon.

The problem is that its nearly every encounter user. Not even just for bosses necessarily.

Where is Kingmaker?

I really really don't understand how more of Yea Forums doesn't rip apart this game's dialogue. I saw a screencap of a post showing the difference between borderlands' dialogue and how a regular game would write the same dialogue, and in many places OS2 is even fucking worse. I guess most people here really do enjoy constant """witticisms""", sarcasm, and adolescent observations rammed down their throat every time a dialogue box gets opened up.

It's not a Pathfinder thread, but to answer your question the reason is there's a really annoying user that types in a strange way and is in every CRPG thread. When I see that person, it makes me feel like "If this is the type of person who's a huge fan of this game, there's no way it's for people like me." Also there's too many RPGs to play which appeal to me more than Pathfinder.

its because we dont play obvious kusoge

>There's no reason to assume the feats the game recommends are bad.
You don't need to assume they're good and just click them because they have a green icon. You could try reading them to find out whether or not they're useful to you.

>I read the feats and the seemed fine. Nothing that would result in this
I will Paypal you a dollar right now if you post your builds.

>how can I do this more than I have?
Fullplate. Masterwork items. Natural Armor amulets. Rings of Protection. +1 Armor if you can get it. You also likely have potions of Heroism or some shit you can use.

>this is invalid
Whut

>who leaves for silly reasons that you can't forsee
No she doesn't. She leaves because you told her to leave.

>who is a pretty worthless hybrid in my experience
Inquisitors literally buff the party and debuff the enemy. You have Bane, you have whatever those Inquisitor commands are called, you have Divine Favor and Shield of Faith, all 1st level spells.

>who leaves you for silly reasons you cannot forsee
Gee, I wonder why the Neutral Evil guy leaves early on. You're past the point where you should have gotten him back.

>They all seemed reasonable in character things. I was just trying to be a good character
There is LITERALLY no way you chose "Good" dialogue options and ended up with Linzi leaving. That's literally impossible.

name one
What!(What!)
Valerie is great! Shes the best knight in the world! (She is! She is!) You must play Kingmaker, it is an amazing RPG! (You must! You must!)

I know about the points, but I don't know how to trigger any scenes with her. I'm already past the point where I helped her against the Forefather.

>which you have no way of knowing
Luckily most people are not 5INT in real life, again, it's entirely on you, Kingmaker is ridiculously easy to both learn and break, because like every D&D you just need to focus and stack, and this is without considering spells, it's a fucking 3.5 based game for god's sake.
>That's not fun. that's lame.
The game explicitly tells you higher difficulty settings are ridiculously unfair and only for very experienced players, it's completely up to you to deal with that, and your fault entirely.
>BG was easy
BG games were notoriously piss easy to the point that BG apologists' only retort is bringing up SCS to have a smidgeon of credibility, don't ever pretend otherwise.

It's a fucking joke, dude. Do you really not understand how shitty memes work?

I don't think it's funny.

Holy shit I thought it was just me.
I wonder how many sales that user has cost Owl Cat by typing that obnoxiously.

Neither do I. But I also understand that just because one person on Yea Forums does think it's funny and spams it every thread, doesn't mean the game itself is off my play list. But I guess you do you. Must be pretty hard finding games to play if you only touch ones where no shitty jokes or memes or fans exist.

the first one? the graphics are better than the second one wtf

Its not actually. There are a lot of good games that nobody ever talks about

If you know so much about jokes then why are you taking me dead seriously? Also did I just make you break character, waifu-kun?

D&D sucks.

You're a piece of shit and I will never buy pathfinder because you keep shitting up every thread by typing like this (like this like this!)

I hope owl cat runs out of business

Original Sin 1 and 2 are both great, 2's armor system is very antifun but it has a much better narrative and story than 1 does.

Kingmaker is fine as long as you are aware that Pathfinder is a dogshit broken system and that Paizo are even more incompetent fuckheads than WOTC, and you crank the difficulty way down to save yourself headaches

Did you just pull a "I was only pretending to be retarded"?

Also, no I'm not that guy. If I was, I wouldn't be talking about Valerie because she's not even the best girl in the game.

I made a joke, you got mad, now you're calling me a retard. You are autistic and I don't care how you feel.

>but it has a much better narrative and story than 1 does.
Ehh, maybe for the first half. It goes complete retard in the second and I haven't met a single person who doesn't say that the ending didn't ruin the entire game retroactively for them.

It's a good game to play through if you can ignore the infuriating loot system, with lots of stuff to do and lots of places to see, right up until it dies a horrible shitty death at the end, taking all your fun with it.

I don't know if you know what the word mad means.

I'm also not going to play Pathfinder.

miss me with that pathfinder

I loved the ending sequences, what made you hate them so much?

Ok. Have fun.

The TWEEST is a little silly but it's also to be expected given that this is divinity we're talking about and there's no way chaddus rex wouldn't show up

Currently playing this for the first time and being really enjoying it, just going to do the hunting magical critters on my land quest.

Really?

>Spend the game hearing that The Divine is dead and he took his power from the seven gods. You're destiny is to claim divinity so that the Void doesn't take over and kill everything.
>Fast forwards to the end. Oh actually The Divine is alive and the Church was really following a demon.
>Ok, I'll just kill this lying asshole and the world will be better for it because we can seal the portals and there is no need for a Divine anymore.
>Ending title card says The Divine is alive and I let him live and kept his secret and nothing I actually made the choice to do happened.

Why the fuck did I do any of that then? Why did they play the Church up as bad guys, only to make them good guys in the second half, only to make them bad guys again, only to make them good in the ending cards?

It's been a while since I played it but still.

...you do know there's a lot of different endings right? Including seizing the power of divine for yourself and living out eternity as a total pimp, rejecting divinity entirely to protect the world at the cost of power, getting cucked by the void for making poor decisions, etc

You mean the big hunting tournament? That's interesting and it actually comes up later on.

I get what that other user means though. The problem with Kingmaker I see is twofold;

>First, its structured like the PF Adventure Path, which means it's broken into 6 distinct "books" each with their own major villain arc that is designed to play as a self-contained story, but also have ties to a larger narrative. This can lead to things feeling very "villain of the month" where you defeat one Major Threat and then everyone is save, and then now there's a new Major Threat and you need to spend a few years dealing with that, rinse and repeat. It's not a traditional straight line narrative.

>Second is that the stakes have trouble feeling high. Right from the beginning, it's "X is coming and hurting your kingdom, act quick or everyone will die!" and it just keeps hitting that note over and over. There's no hints of any larger narrative at all until way later.

Still the choices, the amount of quests, and the kingdom building can keep the game going for easily 100 hours if you let it.

I didn't hate the ending, I think it's good enough, certainly nothing to write home about but I don't feel it "takes away my fun".
I was not expecting it, but just because I was hoping for something more shocking or meaningful. The twist is like "The bad evil dude wasn't really dead and was kind of behind everything but not really and now you have to defeat it" and I was like: "sure, yeah, why not?, at this point I've come to hate most of everyone in this room aside from my party, it really makes no difference."
>only to make them good guys in the second half
Wait, what? What did I miss?
>>Ending title card says The Divine is alive and I let him live and kept his secret and nothing I actually made the choice to do happened.
>only to make them good in the ending cards?
That's only one of your options though. This is not Mass Effect. While I certainly found most endings a little bit disappointing, not once I found myself thinking "This makes no difference at all!".

>There's no hints of any larger narrative at all until way later.

Not sure I agree with this. I haven't finished it but the big threat responsible for most of the bullshit that happens is telegraphed pretty strongly from, like, the early hours of day three.

You really want to know my backlog? There are at least a dozen classic games I've never tried. Right now I mainly want to play MotB, KOTOR, and Bloodlines. As far as new games, I'm curious about AoD and Conquistadors. Then there's old-ass games like Ultima Underworld, JA2, and Dark Sun.
That's not to say any of those games are better than Pathfinder. In fact I know some of them are probably not. But there's numerous reasons I have for not prioritizing Pathfinder, which have nothing to do with its quality or its gameplay.
For example, it's fucking huge. I could experience up to four RPGs that I've never played before, in the time it would take me to do one Pathfinder campaign (same thing applies to Pillars).

>Spend the game hearing that The Divine is dead and he took his power from the seven gods. You're destiny is to claim divinity so that the Void doesn't take over and kill everything.
>Fast forwards to the end. Oh actually The Divine is alive and the Church was really following a demon.
Huh? The magisters were following Lucian's orders through Dallis. They were actually following Lucian the whole time, furthering his goals in his shadow war against the Seven and the Void.

I enjoyed the twist that Lucian had been singlehandedly waging war against everyone else through any means necessary. In an early meeting with your gods, in the distance you can see all 7 of the gods fighting against Lucian in the misty background which is really cool to notice. His actions suck in the short term, but he's not wrong that they're the best option.

>Ok, I'll just kill this lying asshole and the world will be better for it because we can seal the portals and there is no need for a Divine anymore.
>Ending title card says The Divine is alive and I let him live and kept his secret and nothing I actually made the choice to do happened.
You can kill the Divine and share Source with everyone, you can become Divine, or you can follow Lucian's plan to plug the hole and eliminate Source. It sounds like you didn't pay enough attention to what you were agreeing to.

It's so big it's squandered its great qualities away on half-assed content, bugs and assets.
They should have made a trilogy of the Kingmaker campaign and it would have indeed potentially been better than BG.

>...you do know there's a lot of different endings right?
Yes, I know there's supposed to be. But what I'm saying is that while I clearly made one choice by choosing to kill the dude, the ending card literally said that I let him live. So either the choice I made in the dialogue wasn't one the game allowed for, or it doesn't matter what you do in the final scene anyway.

Oh yeah, I mean I guess Nyrissa is kind of a big overarching story, but she doesn't feel very important, even when she's in a villain monologue.

>You can kill the Divine and share Source with everyone
Unless I'm massively forgetting things, that's exactly what I chose to do. The game told me I didn't do that immediately after.

Like I said, I loved the early and mid game, but the end just fizzled badly for me. Big ending fight with no real consequences, and a choose-your-own ending that apparently didn't work.

>Unless I'm massively forgetting things, that's exactly what I chose to do. The game told me I didn't do that immediately after.
It sounds like you are forgetting things, because you're mixing up aspects of both endings.
>Ok, I'll just kill this lying asshole and the world will be better for it because we can seal the portals and there is no need for a Divine anymore.
In the "Share the Source" ending you thought you chose, the portals are NOT sealed. Everyone will equally have Source and the Void can be collectively waged war against. The Divine does not come back.

In the "Seal the Source" ending, you seal the portal between the mortal realm and the void by sacrificing all remaining Source and becoming Silent Monks. Lucian comes back and remains in power as Divine, but without his Source powers.

If you played at release you might have encountered a bug with the ending cards then.

Definitive Edition is worth playing through again to see the stuff it added

Please stop.