But what is the appeal of turn based jrpgs? They are extremely repetitive...

Fucking zoomers.

I had a lot of fun with trails but that's the only turn based game I've ever been able tolerate aside from Pokemon games as a kid, I personally don't like watching movies though either, would rather play video games all day/night than watch something.

Try Wizardry or a Wizardry-like rpg and you'll see why most JRPGs are so simple and braindead. Most people can't handle difficult/complex turn-based combat.

Turn based require more skill than real time. You have to actually plan and make up strategies or do certain party combinations.

Shit like Skyrim or Fallout you just load yourself up with OP equipment and health pots and just button mash until you win

>It's better cuz it's more difficult

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>Another guy having genuine problems with imagining a taste different from his own
What is this? It can't be autism, it's too common.

People who disparage turn-based combat will always come back with the same smooth-brain responses.
If it's an easy game then you're "doing the same shit over and over" or "mashing the attack button"
If it's a hard game then they call it "autistic RNG bullshit"
Just leave them, there's no fixing bad taste.

>action rpg
>not repetitive

OP IS A FAGGOT

nostalgia

MAGIK MISSLE
MIAGIKKK MISSLLE
MAGIKKKK MISCLEEEEEEEEEEE
NOT THE BEES
MAGIKKKKKKKKK MISSELEEEEE
BEEEEEESSSSS

>I have no patience
All you needed to say.

I dont even like turn based but they have a weird way of sucking you in depending on the game. Most likely you can think of at least one turn based game you like, even Pokemon counts. I was disappointed initially at the gameplay of pic related but a couple hours in I ended up loving it.

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I like making my numbers fight enemy numbers and getting more numbers as a reward. I also like to plan ahead how to arrange my numbers before battle to have my numbers fight more efficiently. When I see my numbers fruifully play according to my plan I feel good. If they didn't play according to my plan or did so to lesser results I like to adjust my plan and numbers accordingly. I also like occasional long "boss" battles for which I have to take into account special gimmicky rules and plan accordingly. I also really like numbers.
The story, music, atmosphere, exploration are just cherries on tops but necessary ones to not make a game feel like a massive number-crunching fiesta.

>But what is the appeal of turn based jrpgs? They are extremely repetitive.
I never really understand statements like this. As if the vast majority of action games aren't extremely repetitive.

I grew up in the SNES days and beat ff2 (4 in Japan) probably like 5 times. But looking back on it all it does feel like really lame gameplay. Most "battles" could be won by holding the a button. If it's a boss then spam heal a bunch. Winning or losing was basically a matter of how much MP your healer has.

It's called baiting

WordsWorth.

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This tells you something about a quality and appeal of so-called """real life""".

I only like them when they have actual thought requirements, even for trash mobs. I get bored of turn-based games quickly when all I do is "Auto" or kill the enemies using "Light Attack" or "Heavy Attack".

This is actually what killed the Neptunia games for me. In Nepu MkII you had an energy bar that went up as you attacked enemies normally, and with enough energy you could unleash special attacks very quickly, giving a lot of variation on how you kill trash mobs and bosses. They removed this feature, and Neptunia Victory and the remakes basically require you to attack using normal attacks only while saving mana and EXE gauge for bosses. Shit's boring.

Another great example is Fairy Fencer F. Not sure about the remakes or sequel, but in the original you could build into a lot of mana regeneration. That allowed you to AoE down enemies and become very powerful through a good build. A lot of games balance magic in a way that it's very strong, but limited to a non-regenerating manapool that requires items. I hate this, because it feels so limiting and forces you to save mana and potions for bossfights. I wish more games utilized the system of having good passive mana regeneration at the cost of weaker spells to promote variation in gameplay.

>But looking back on it all it does feel like really lame gameplay. Most "battles" could be won by holding the a button
Old RPGs aren't about the amount of buttons or variety of actions you're doing. It's about making mechanics of the game work in your favor. You choose "attack", watch your character sprite whack away at enemy sprite, damage numbers spring up and you think "wow, this is dumb". But have you thought what makes exactly those damage numbers spring up? What are the formulae behind that? How can you twist them better in your favor with lesser time and resource spent. You find better gear, you buff up your physical damage dealer, you twist around some other stuff and see better damage numbers end battle faster. Yes, you still just "choose" attack in the end and see your character whack the enemy sprite. But you no longer think that it's "dumb" because you are involved in the understanding of mechanics and numbers working behind the simplistic animations. Or you still think it's dumb and then the genre is just not for you.

I bet you love Disgaea

>cuz I have no patience to do the same shit over and over again for 50 hours
How many hours have you spent shitposting on Yea Forums?

Wrong. Play X-Com or SMT or Original Sin and try to win with absolutely no strategy. You just haven't played any hard turn based game yet. Though if you are solely talking about Final Fantasy turn based, yes, they are brain-dead

zoomer

No, I actually dislike Disgaea because the game takes that idea to such extremes that make even me disgusted. I know that it's intenional as the whole premise of Disgaea is to be an """ironic RPG""" that laughs about RPG tropes. But it does so by cranking them up to 11 while also being absolutely not serious about anything. It's just pure fucking cancer.

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you do know people who play turn-based games play other genre's right. If I want to play something with lots of quick paced action I'll play a fighting game.

Min-maxing is a tumor on the rpg genre.

There is nothing to rpgs gameplay-wise but minmaxing though.

Turn-based is the ultimate zoomer filter.

Adictive as fuck, as they are extremely easy, shallow, and a constant estimulation and gratification in exchange of almost no effort.
Just like MMOs, Diablo clones or gacha.
Basically they are great Skinner boxes.
On top of that all of these genres are VERY time consuming, so sunk cost fallacy.
Oh, and of course they look and sound very good for the same reason slot machines do.

Twewy, kh.

they are enjoyable

Soma Bringer

>They are extremely repetitive
Perhaps the same could be said of this shitty thread.

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I grew up without ever playing JRPG and I hate them. Rarely I feel a grindfest need so I just resub to WoW for a month or pick some generic kusoge.

He said good.

Does this mean Octopath Traveler is a bad game?

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There are times when I don't want to have my reaction time tested. Video games don't have to be about reflex all the time.

True, but I wish the difficulty would reflect that.
In most RPGs it's never necessary to min-max, and doing so completely trivializes every single encounter, bosses included.

Sure there is, if you're playing the right game.
RPGs without class, ability or skill systems are shit. Good RPGs aren't about stats, they're about finding the combinations of utilities that work in your favor.

Octopath is a 6/10 game but exactly thanks to its combat as well as visuals and sound.

So what? Min-maxing is what makes these games fun. There's nothing quite like bending a game and its mechanics over and making it your bitch through knowledge alone, and turn-based RPGs are the best way to do that.

i just played some porn game with a fight system like this and thought it might be cool if it was more complex what games do this well?

now that OP is a confirmed faggot, what is the best turn based JRPG and why is it Chrono Trigger?

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It wasn't even the best JRPG of its generation. It's a decent game, but nothing more.

Ac!d 2 was fun as fuck to me but didn't mind 1. I just loved everything about it be it the art style or the TBS improvements and music and whacky new cards. Sure was nice having a self-contained story with Snake not being a clone for once, at least in the first game I wish it was popular enough to be its own series getting games to this day. Would be fun as fuck having an optional coop mode and accessible modding capabilities be it custom cards or maps.

Started it 5 or so times and always lost all the will to play once I hit the Dimensional Corridor part. Non-linearity and being able to just go after the BBEG straight away just kills all the incentive to play for me. Feels like I've seen everything important to that point and all that's left is just some optional fetch quests. Up to that part though it's great.

>what is the best turn based JRPG
Elimage Gothic

ATB is not turn based and will never be

More like most overrated jrpg ever

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Even if this was bait, there are definitely people on this board that are like this. And they're the same children saying
>zoom zoom cuck reddit imagine seething this hard lmao orange man

Overrated, a perfect word for someone who wants to criticize thing without actually having arguments.

That's not Persona 5/Earthbound/Mother 3/Paper Mario TTYD/Undertale

Sorry but its still FF7

Same as the appeal of most RPGs, there is a very rewarding sense of progression when you gain experience and see your numbers go up.

FF7 was only overrated in the 2000's. In the 2010's (especially the latter half) the hype has died down a ton. I'd say FF9 is the more generally beloved game these days.

I know that being objective and neutral here is really hard but you have really boring games on both sides.
FF and Pokemon are both super basic and shit like Skyrim and Dark Souls have such basic rpg elements to them that they might as well be action games.
SMT is much more of a proper turn-based RPG and Dragon's Dogma is about the only game I can call a succesful blend of traditional RPG and Action, despite its balancing and pacing flaws.

Turn-based JRPGs are zoomzoom repellent.

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>FF and Pokemon are both super basic
>SMT is much more of a proper turn-based RPG
You have this ass backwards. SMT is the most basic RPG on the market. There is fuck all you can do with its systems and the only reason anyone even cares about its gameplay is because it has mildly challenging game design. FF and Pokemon may not be as hard, but there's a hell of a lot more you can do in the average game from one of those two than there is in SMT

that's why you use emulators with fast forward. OR stop grinding and battle like a man.
also story and music usually redeems those games no matter what.

Would I enjoy Pokémon if I played it on like 10x speed on an emulator so I could GRINDAN 4EVER without getting bored to tears?

The chances that you would are much higher, yes.

Turn based combat was just a thing because of technical limitations at the time

>Grinding in Pokemon
>on an emulator so you can't even multiplayer
for what purpose

Fine, explain what's so limited about SMT and the wealth of options both FF and Pokemon grant to its players that could give them an edge over the former. For Pokemon, I concede the fact that online battling can get amazingly deep but I was refering to the singleplayer experience. As for FF, I'm really curious.

The last Pokemon game I played was probably Crystal, I'd just replay the early gen ones in singleplayer

Bull-fucking-shit, arpgs predate turn-based ones.

I find it funny pokemon is still the best turn based game series because of how there is no generic "attack" command
Of course the series has many problems specially recently but I wish other games copied it more
Instead they all copied dragon quest and called it a day

You’re a zoomer thats the only explanation for your autism

arpgs were not trying to recreate D&D

The entire game of SMT is simply team composition. The abilities you can use in battles themselves have barely advanced beyond shit you could do in Dragon Quest in the 80s. All you have is status effects, buffs/debuffs, attack skills and healing. That's literally all SMT lets you do. Even without that, simply compare an SMT demon to a Pokemon and the SMT demon comes up completely mechanically uninteresting because the SMT demon does not have
>Nature
>Gender
>Special Abilities
>Evolution possibilities
>Unique moves
>Various other game-specific gimmicks

Final Fantasy is, of course, harder to pin down since every game is different, but overall it still typically has more depth through things like class systems, ATB manipulation, equipment for characters other than the MC, multiple mutually exclusive ability sets (white vs black magic) and so on

Like I said, the whole game of SMT is team composition and getting the skill inheritance shit to work right, which is akin to breeding to pass on TM moves in Pokemon, something everyone hated so much that gamefreak actually got rid of it. The only interesting gimmick the battles themselves have is hitting an enemy's weakness for extra turns/damage, which more or less forces you to play a certain way anyway

>He thinks RPGs are only 50 hours

Oh my sweet summer child...

What I dont enjoy about SMT is how the progression of combat is always the exact same
By the end game it always becomes luster candy and debilitate spam, I think debuffs should have a chance to miss

Japs love grindan games, and they are supreme autists. JRPGS are shit.

Trying to recreate D&D was a mistake.

Probably but if it werent for those nerds RPGS wouldnt exist at all in any form now
The problem is that Japan played Wiardry and got stuck there, never to evolve.

It's okay, bosses will always dekunda and dekaja that shit anyway

stupid baby crystalis was a thing

But thats the reason you need to keep spamming it.
Its just not interesting
SMT is a series where the combat gets worse as the game progresses, its pretty good right at the start when weaknesses still matter a lot

The appeal for those games is not the combat though. People would tell you the main selling point of FF games is the story, and for pokemon its the collection of pokemans.
I believe that turn-based combat was the go-to system for games that didn't bother developing the combat gameplay, just like how its shooter nowadays.

Normally they are harder at that mid-point of the game, but by the end they become easy and you steamroll through until maybe the last dungeon and the last boss. Because of this, the lasting impression of the game you played will always be the steamroll section meaning you forget the challenge/fun you had.

Pretty sure the difference is that SMT doesn't have multiplayer. Besides Unique Moves (SMT has em) and Gender (That's just breeding and like a handful of moves, right? Not sure), all those other points are completely irrelevant until you start playing higher level multiplayer.

Spamming weaknesses isn't any more fun than spamming buffs

When you're stoned or have alot of time to sink into a game. I personally grew out of jrpgs when I got out of school and started working. They take too much time to sink into

That’s because FF2 was heavily dumbed down for westerners, and they even took away the character abilities. The ds/psp version have much harder gameplay, though I heard ds is the hardest

>all those other points are completely irrelevant
Yes and that's what I said at the outset, the challenge is literally the only thing people care about and that's why people say Persona games have the depth of a thimble despite the actual combat not being substantially different from main SMT. They're just SMT games with the challenge removed, and if you remove the challenge from SMT, there's nothing left

Pokemon never had challenge, but its mechanics are pure autism fuel and that's why so many people never "grow out" of it like you'd expect them to. Like shit, did you ever even consider that it's one of the few JRPG systems that still effectively has Vanacian magic instead of MP shit? That alone makes it semi-unique

Incremental power makes my pp hard

>The entire game of SMT is simply team composition.
To be frank, the same can also be said about Pokemon and FF to a lesser extent (since FF's are varied but mostly have very few different party comps.)
When you're at the midway point in any of these three RPG's team composition matters since your team is a like a single unified machine. If you don't have decent answers for every matchup, you're not playing it optimally.
I'd say not being encouraged to regularly check your team comp is indicative of how bland an RPG can be.

You do have SMT Demons with unique skills in the games and if I'm allowed to use the Majin Tensei and Devil Survivor games as examples, you have racial skills akin to abillities that affect each battle in large ways such as demons with flight being able to move way farther in the field or illusion demons being able to teleport you to another part of the battlefield.
Demons on average are thematically much more interesting in my opinion than Pokemon. Stuff like negotiation also makes encounters cool, aside from normal stuff like trying to get money or recruiting a demon, depending on what you do during battle like stunning an enemy allows you to basically get the upperhand during negotiation and wring a lot of money out of that demon, and that's just one example of a status effect influencing the negotiation system, there's multiple possible situations depending on what you do in battle.
I think both Pokemon and SMT have the benefit of being able to completely change their party composition but fusion appeals to me more since it's snappy and it makes every demon you get not a complete waste as it'll simply become part of a stronger demon.
So SMT or MegaTen in general does have alternate gameplay affecting systems that are different from natures, genders etc. but I feel that they're more readily apparent. With Pokemon a lot of the depth in its systems are simply never really interacted with unless you do online battles for example.

I liked them, but mostly becuase i emulated pretty much every one that i played, so i could just speed up the repetitive parts.

We shouldn't let 18 year olds vote. Look how stupid you are. I could crush you in anything turn based or a fighting game.

>Turn based require more skill
stopped reading right here

...

no face reveal in this board.

The opinions of people born after 2000 such as yourself do not matter. Literally kill yourself or go back to twitter/leddit/youtube you retarded child.

So before "Open World" was a thing, the only way you got anything close to that was via JRPGs. They offered (limited) character customization, worlds that you could explore at leisure, sidequests, more involved stories, et cetera when compared to other games at the time. Especially given that the era was dominated by platformers.

So what happened? Well, as JRPGs became popular, other games started incorporating "RPG Elements" into their games. This resulted in those games being more popular and receiving better reviews. And then GTA hit the scene and changed fucking everything. Now most modern games offer everything that JRPGs formerly had a monopoly on and more, and the features that still identify them as JRPGs only drag them down as all the good features distinct to the genre have been cannibalized by every other genre under the sun.

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>Especially given that the era was dominated by platformers.
Consolefags ruin everything as usual, wRPGs were thriving back then but FF7 rot all your brains with fancy graphics

Yeah the only tb games worth paying are rogue likes rogue lites and shit like xcom or divinity

PC gaming was niche back then, and didn't drive the market the same way that consoles did outside of a few heavy hitters like Doom and Starcraft. That and much of what's there applies to WRPGs as well as they suffer from the same fundamental problems just without the glossy coat of anime that guarantees sales to weeaboos. WRPGs are just as fucked as JRPGs right now.

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>WRPGs are just as fucked as JRPGs right now
Jrpgs are doing better than ever though?

Turn based is the Rick and Morty of combat for brainlets who think they're mental monsters for using the fire spell on the enemy weak to fire or using the exact same optimal buff strat before attacking every single encounter.
RPG mechanics as a whole are literally "I would rather this game would play itself rather than allow me to play it".
Both are more or less basic systems used because the technology for more advanced systems wasn't available. Ideally the player should aim at the enemy weak spot to do critical damage, but it's a lot more effort to create that system than to just like, roll a fucking dice and make the big numbers if you geet a good roll. Put them both together and you have the most brainlet system known to man.

There is not a turn based rpg like FF6 with any tactical or strategic depth. If anyone were to argue otherwise, they would immediately appeal to games mechanics which deviate from the system in that game towards more player agency, because the only way you can make a turn based jrpg less brainlet is by making it less turn based and less jrpg.

Playing Octopath and beating this cunt while 15-20 levels under the suggested level of the area felt absolutely amazing.

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Is this pasta

You should try playing good video games.

And yet even the worst jrpg is more enjoyable than the dullest RPG of all time. Each attempt Obsidian makes to create their own universe rather than simply deconstruct a setting made by others, has been more disastrous than the last. Aside from the outdated gameplay and lifeless cities, Pillars of Eternity's only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of combat mechanics, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when Sawyer vetoed the idea of making anything at all innovative or original; he made sure the game would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody, just ridiculously profitable nostalgia pandering to ageing Baldur's Gate fans. Pillars of Eternity might be anti-casual(or not), but it’s certainly the anti-Divinity series in its refusal of spontaneity, fun and excitement.

>a-at least the writing was good though

"No!"

The writing is dreadful; the narrative was terrible. As I played, I noticed that every time I engaged in dialogue with an NPC the game presented me with a Wiki-page style infodump instead of anything resembling actual human conversation.

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time this was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Sawyer's mind is so governed by obsession with pointless minutiae of the lore that he has no other style of writing.

Later I read a lavish, loving review of Pillars of Eternity by the same David Gaider. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kiddies are playing Obsidian games at 17 or 18, then when they get older they will go on to enjoy Dragon Age II." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you play "Pillars of Eternity" you are, in fact, trained to shill for Bioware.

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>Obvious bait thread
>500 replies omitted

It's all so tiresome

Huh, so jrpg players really *are* braindead.

I sure love using full-screen magic on every single encounter in the game, what a rewarding experience

This, but unironically.

But the image implies the exact opposite where a dumb casual thinks grindan is the only way to win and is proven wrong by jrpg fans that aren't incompetent

I see a person playing a jrpg, and said person is stupid.

>questionposting
should be bannable by irl death.

Can you not read

>underlevelled run
The only true way RPGs should be played, even if usually "suggested levels" in FAQs are already overlevelling.

I see a poster on 4channel, and said person is stupid.

>Starting a discussion about video games on a video game image board

I know, what an asshole

Indeed.

This, as much as I love old JRPGs, Final Fantasy Tactics being one of my favorite all-time games. I don't know how anyone can play modern JRPGs.

i play lots of games, I don't play JRPGs for a challenging gameplay experience. It's really quite as simple as, I like the way it looks to see a list of my characters and their current/max HP. I like pressing commands in a menu and then having the characters just do those commands. Then, when I'm done with the fight, I like getting 182 xp and 81 GP so that the cool dude with the black helmet levels up and has 392 HP instead of 381. Oh look, now his basic attack is one shotting these enemies so i can grind even faster.

They also usually handle an epic adventure, a character or group of characters going all over the world and influencing events. The games go on for a long time so you get to know the characters and care for them, even if you're filling in half of who these characters are with your own imagination.

Thanks for your honest participation to this discussion

They're fun

>Look us jrpg fans are big brained
>We're smarter than this random literal retard who doesn't even know what equipment does

Way to set yourself a high bar fucknuts. Maybe you're too stupid to realise how stupid you're making yourself look, I dunno.

>muh holding a button and watching flashy animations

>grinding

Dilate.

When it comes to turn based JRPGs the ideal system for basic attacking that absolutely no one has used for some reason is Legend of Dragoon's Additions. Makes your inputs matter and ensures every character feels different to play.

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Why do people who play video games not understand that not every genre/playstyle has to be enjoyable to you?

Do you enjoy every type of movie/Music? I mean ALL TYPES?

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As someone who grew up with PSOne and Dreamcast JRPGs, I can assure you that 95% of JRPGs released before 2010 are unplayable garbage, and very few are better than average modern JRPG.

This. FF7 still regularly cracks top ten game lists of all time.

As someone who grew up with the SNES I can tell you that you are completely full of shit and can go fuck yourself.

I don't disagree with you, that's around the time I stopped playing them.

I would say jrpgs are usually perfectly playable, considering they're basically glorified excel sheets.

>95%
wouldn't go that far, most of the best ones are older. Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, and whichever FF you like the most are objectively the three best JRPGs ever made.

The point of the image is showing that the people who argue "The only solution in RPGs is grinding there's no other way to play it" are retards who don't even check their equipment.

This

Here is a tip: skip ahead till the fights become challenging.

Just flee from battles that would give you "unnessecary xp" (considering you are already too strong for the area). It shouldn't take too long to make yourself "not too strong" and then suddenly the gameplay becomes very engaging, where you actually have to plan all your moves carefully.
don't go overboard tho, since the occasional "difficult anyway" bossfights can become just way too hard

I like to play JRPGs as if I was actually in hurry like in the stories, where I have to skip every fight that isn't crucial to finishing the game. This way, the combat remains challenging and engaging all the way through.

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Why do pansies shy away from confrontation and take a bitchy hippie worldview that is inherently hypocritical in the first place because "why don't u understand some people LYK to eat shit" could be used as a point against his bitching about bitching about people eating shit?
Single mothers?

I like turn-based and action rpgs.

ff3 is my favorite game, and celes was my waifu growing up before i knew what waifu was. im also 37 and posting at work
you will be here forever too

Most of the Ys games.

Like Final Fantasy.

So it's used as a rebuttal to heavily misrepresented arguments? Because nobody said that to make it relevant.

Grandia 2

Wow it sure feels fun to repeat the same optimal DPS strat every encounter with absolutely no pressures to make it interesting. Truly you have fixed turn based combat my man.

>Makes your inputs matter
They do already, unless you mean a timing minigame in a game that also has items that allow you to bypass that completely means anything.
>ensures every character feels different to play.
Which LoD didn't do at all since all characters are literally mash X to win, or O if you're playing the JP version, the game has some of the most mindnumbing gameplay in the genre.

ff3 and chrono trigger are the twin best games from the best system. any other answer is just being contrarion
any ff8 answer is obviously a drooling retard who should have been aborted because of the obvious mental deficiency

I never cared much for them on home systems, but I really always loved JRPGs for on the go, they lasted a long ass time, you could idly mash through shit if you were in a dark tunnel or on a bumpy road or something and couldn't focus 100%, it was just the perfect genre for road trips.

Its like none of you fucks have played Etrian Odyssey

>These three specific pieces of art are objectively the best ones of their kind.

There's no objectivity in art, you absolute brainlet.

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Lot of people say it in RPG threads, though not this one specifically I guess.
Always fun to remember there are people on Yea Forums right now who can't clear fucking FFVI, that is among the easiest in the FF series.

I said good.

No one ever talks about this or how fun Grandia Xtreme's battles were (although the rest of it was shit)

>playing a game where you dont see your characters
i bet you liked earthbound and the early dragonwarrior games too.

People who complain about turn based JRPGs needing gameplay changes are the same kind of retards that make threads about how fighting games should play.

>whichever FF you like most is objectively the best one
that user was clearly being 100% serious

Video games are not art and will never be art peasant.

>mfw 61050 is my password for most my stuff
nobody can know my secret

All games are “repetitive”, they all involve repeatedly using a small number of verbs to tackle different challenges. Mario is mostly running and jumping, Halo is mostly shooting, etc. You’ve said very little about why you don’t like these games other than, presumably, you think they lack depth. But plenty do, so you’re probably either just playing shitty JRPGs or, most likely, you’re grinding until it’s easy because you’re too dumb to figure out the mechanics.

I just like dragon quest because I like doing the same things over and over again, I'm probably autistic to some degree
I mean technically the only difference between video games and other art forms is interactivity, and I don't see how interactivity necessarily negates any possibility of a game having some artistic value

The logical way to prove your point would simply be to look at (non rng manipulation/glitchless) speedruns, which are the most optimised way of playing those games and would easily prove if grinding is absolutely necessary for a particular game or not.
But you are just a bit stupid and don't even know what logical fallacies are, let alone how much of a fallicious argument that image is.
The only thing posting that image proves is that you're stupid for thinking it proves anything. It's literally one random retard being a retard.

I dont think turn base is necessarily bad.
But for sure older jrpgs have random encounters which makes the game feel extremely repetitive.

Because those games have pressures that require skill to overcome. JRPGs don't. Simple as.

Each character has a different kind of rhythm to their additions and you can't just spam X or you'd fail the attack, you're talking out of your ass.

> it sure feels fun to repeat the same optimal DPS strat
try actually playing a game maybe instead of coming up with your headcanon

enemies wary constantly, and can do devastating moves if you are lower leveled. You often have to rearrange your tactics every turn based on which of your characters got what kind of CCs, debuffs, or crits hit on them, or what consumables and resources do you have left.

There is no such a thing as "spammign the strongest DPS move". If you can get away this shit that already means you are overleveled.

Some of them are good, but they are a rarity.
Most JRPGs focus on complexity rather than depth - in other words, you have a fuckton of options but most of them are extremely redundant or situational, so you keep spamming the same shit the whole game. That's how you end up with these huge spell lists from which you only use healing, buffing and elemental damaging magic.
Boomers are just convinced that doing the same thing with no actually interesting decision making (no, hurr durr use fire spell on ice monster is not interesting unless you are a 2 years old monkey) but through a menu is absolutely based, SOUL, and takes 200 IQ, because it's what they kept telling themselves when they got into the genre as bullied middle schoolers.

You dumb asses literally cant go 15 seconds without needing some kind of dopamine hit for the your internet addiction.

I have a friend who is a very successful accountant, has a GF who comes from a rich family, his own apartment the city, and is buying a house soon... You know what he plays in the 2 hours he has to spend on vidya every weeknight? JRPGS and lots of them.

Demons in SMT have weaknesses, resistances and immunities, alignment, affinities, unique skills, fusion possibilities, etc. Some demons may even evolve into others.

I'm not seeing your point.

There are many ways to enjoy games. The point of these games is precisely that they are easy and repetitive which leaves your mind free to do other things while you play. It's like smoking. A simple, repetitive, soothing action that loosens you up a bit. They make great phone games. I'm currently playing FF3 on mobile.

I dunno what to tell you man, lots of JRPGs are perfectly challenging even when you avoid grinding (Breath it Fire V, Fire Emblem). Lots of others are very challenging as long as you don’t grind. If you want to pretend there’s no challenge because you can’t sroo yourself from autistically doing boring shit for 20 hours thats your problem.

You don't even know what you are arguing.
First, nobody mentioned optimal ways to play it. Then speedruns don't define anything except the fastest way to clear a game, which typically involve purposefully keeping the difficulty to a minimum and skipping most of the game content.

And finally
>glitchless speedrun of a 50 hours RPG
Literally why?

It absolutely does. That makes it a toy, for kids, definitely not art.

Who said anything about grinding except you? What the fuck is wrong with you lmao.

It's for kids whose parents literally Sneak100 up on them and yank them out of their gaming chair without giving them time to pause so the kid needs the enemies to sit there patiently waiting for them to come back and kill them after they've finished doing whatever bullshit their parents came up with, whether it's washing the dishes or attending the wedding of a cousin they never heard of in a country they can't spell.

Damn, that's really weird. I'm in my twenties, have a job and live on my own. Guess I'm not really an adult because I engage in a modern hobby lol.

“They’re challenging if you don’t grind like a retard”
“They’re not challenging because you’re not forced into that challenge like other games”
“Maybe if you stopped grinding like a fucking retard you would find the challenge you’re looking so hard for”
“Who’s talking about grinding except you? Lmao”

Looks like we got ourselves a genius, boys.

But then why are some classic board games considered to be for adults, when some video games offer just as much depth on top of sometimes telling an engaging story and having good visuals, music and so on? Is it just the fact that it's on a screen or the fact that it's not entirely abstract?
What about games that aim for an adult audience and try to convey ideas or just to be extremely appealing visually, with a distinct artstyle or just technically?
What exactly is it about video games that makes them inherently childish? Not necessarily the video games we have right now, but the concept of video games

>First, nobody mentioned optimal ways to play it.
You sarcastically said
>"The only solution in RPGs is grinding there's no other way to play it"
Thus if optimal playstyle required grinding then that would be PROVABLY false. It would be OBJECTIVE evidence. Yes they prove what is the fastest and most efficient way to play a game. That's the point. That's what will tell you whether grinding is necessary or superfluous.
It would not be an image macro of 1 (ONE) retard being a retard which proves that that 1 (ONE) person is a retard which isn't relevant to anything.

You actually are thick as pigshit holy fuck.

>only solution = fastest solution
No.

>“They’re challenging if you don’t grind like a retard”
You said this, or at least someone making the same argument as you so if your disproving what I said by saying everyone defending jrpgs are nattering to themselves about grinding while nobody
>“They’re not challenging because you’re not forced into that challenge like other games”
I can't work out what post you are referencing with this. I would have to assume but that doesn't mention grinding. It mentions pressures which are things like time sensitivity.
>“Maybe if you stopped grinding like a fucking retard you would find the challenge you’re looking so hard for”
Again, (You)
>“Who’s talking about grinding except you? Lmao”
Yes you still haven't really clarified this.

>Each character has a different kind of rhythm to their additions
Doesn't matter since you can completely automate it with accessories and means nothing at all in terms of actual gameplay, it's a shitty rhythm minigame that simply makes you do more damage, spells are even worse since in there you just mash square like a madman in order to do the same, bigger numbers.
LoD is literally mashing attack to win, it has zero complexity at all, it's a game for the mentally retarded who can't live without frantically mashing buttons with no rhyme or reason and pretend that's good gameplay.

t. brainlet retard

Zoomers leave this place

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good taste.

You're thinking of Dragoon attacks, spells just happen. And those are still timing based you scrub.

Literally every japanese dogshit turn based game has the character development and story of a 14 year old philosopher where friendship saves the world

>get best items for party in turn based game.
>can spam the same attacks and kill anything
>literally never use items or die once because its so easy

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Nostalgia. And they're chill.

>cuz

this is not a board for subhumans

Yes, it is. If you don’t believe that, then you don’t belong on Yea Forums, queer.

Play a good one like SMT Shadow Hearts most Wild Arms games etc. Some jrpgs are just braindead like FF where it doesn't feel like you need to make consistent good decisions most of the time. Its why bosses like "Seymour Flux" are considered hard by shitters because its the one time they're forced to make good decisions bar end game content.

Real time jrpgs like Tales are far more repetitive because its like playing an action game where you hit the skill ceiling in like an hour then you fight a bunch of a bosses that break out of combos in like 3 hits into super armor and its just a series of doing the same few safe combos well mashing on the heal command.

Not my favorites either, but they can be fun if packed with good mechanics. Paper Mario's for example before it went to shit

I prefer Shadow Hearts in this regard especially the combat in 2/3 because 1 is mostly just a raw execution test. Where as 2/3 let you make up your juggles as much as you want.

To a certain point this is hypocritical too. It happens a lot in the FGC. Some fighting games are whack ass kusoge trash but then you have the difference of say GG to UNIST to KOF to Tekken. There are subjective arguments to be made where someone could call any of those games pure dog shit. But unlike SFV/MVCI there isn't enough weight to say its shit beyond "because I think they are".

There are some good real time and some good turn based jrpgs is my point and to be extreme about one side is just stupid.

Why do you wake up every day? Should try dying in your sleep. It's something different.

I've got to agree, i've turned to jrpgs to cope.

Why is this board so obsessed with trash turn based combat, I won't stop liking them over other genres lmao. Not even click and point genre get this much of persecution

More incels then ever before
point and click can at least provide a unique framework for a narrative.
A JRPG spreadsheet of stats basically offers nothing

WRPG fags mostly

But what is the appeal of turn based first person shooters? They are extremely repetitive. I could never finish a single game like this in my life cuz I have no patience to do the same shit over and over again for 10 hours. The gameplay is just not good enough.

Its former JRPG fans that now think they are too good for them and have to attack it so as not to feel like they are missing out

>Literally every japanese dogshit turn based game
No sweetie

>turn based first person shooters

>You're thinking of Dragoon attacks
Dragoon attacks have a generic progressively faster timing check you absolute idiot, spells in LOD are cast using items, and those items LITERALLY require you to mash buttons as fast as you can, Dragoon spells are something else completely.
Go take your ADHD pills and get off the internet.

But not every turn based rpg is a jrpg

My friend is a president of one of the most powerful countries on Earth, grabs bitches by the pussy, builds walls and dosent afraid of anything; and he just called you a faggot

TWEWY

The appeal is that it's a unique genre with its own set of subjectively perceived strengths and flaws.

God I wish Yea Forums would stop being faggots and actually talk about games for once.

Wait, I'm doing it too... OH SHI-

>you need the enemy to be completely freezing and immobile to "plan" your strategy

My nigger.

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You ever try any self-imposed challenges? Like Nuzlocke with Pokemon, etc.

You need to understand the main audience for this type of game. It's the kind of people who think about themselves as "Intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked wense of humor".

You literally missed out on the best/most important parts of the game, retard.

I love basically every jrpg I've ever played, but I've always found the combat incredibly unengaging, even if it's ATB. You can parse menus and make the optimal decision in under a second if you're of at least 90 IQ honestly. The only time they even begin to become "fun" is if they have at least some kind of active component on top of the decision-making, like Lost Odyssey, Legend of Dragoon, Mario rpg series etc. Even then, in most games you can just spend 30 minutes grinding money and then buy a surplus of healing items and be set for the entire game (assuming you even need to dip into them), for that reason I do at least appreciate games like Etrian Odyssey where you need to manage your limited inventory and resources, which is also a skill.

I think the only menu/"turn" based game I've ever played that actually made the gameplay of the battles fun was The Desolate Hope, that ghetto pc game made by the FNAF creator. The boss battles in that were an intense, ecletic, chaotic fucking mess that had you doing at least four things at any one time and it was fan-fucking-tastic.

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>most (options) are extremely redundant or situational
This a million times. I especially hate when half your spells/abilities don't even work against bosses because the designers don't know how to balance a little poison damage, or sleep spell against a boss.

People really need to play something other than final fantasy.

It's like chess, tactic is more valuable than speed.
>B-b-but this particular game doesn't have good / needs tactics
The problem is the game then, not the basic mechanic.

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They make westcucks butthurt, that alone makes them great.

Anyone here played Jade Cocoon? I played the second one first and really loved it, but now I'm trying out the first one and its just a slog to even start summoning your first monster. Does it get better or is the second just superior to it?

I only played the first and have great nostalgia for it but it was slow, its very short though.

>I could never finish a single game like this in my life cuz I have no patience

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I dropped it but do you get any party members or can you summon multiple monsters? I mean the capturing animation and tank controls really turned me off, but I kinda want to finish it.

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You can carry up to 3 monsters but you can only ever summon 1 at the same time in battles

Ughh...guess it'll be another before I try it out again. Thanks user

another year*

The bad part of "you must be 18+ to use Yea Forums" is that some of those mouthbreathing retards are starting to become 18 years old.

You are right that it makes the game more fun and challenging, but it's really shitty that developers don't offer a separate option to lower the encounter rate (so you don't amass a huge amount of gold and exp).

I'm playing Dragon Quest V (SFC) and so far I've never had to grind for EXP. The latest dungeon I visited (recovering your father's secret in a cave) I didn't know if I was going to make it alive out of, as I had run out of MP and had no medicinal herbs.

After seeing how meltdowns happened recently with the younger crowd and Underrail, I can't view your ilk as anything but mental midgets that struggle desperately to protect their fragile egos.

What was that?