Why was Digimon not as popular as Pokemon?

What do they say about the worst-looking Digimon?

People have bad taste

nothing nobody talks about digimon anymore

okay, retard

Only shit going for Digimon was the anime and even then its is a series that is aimed to boys so you have half the potential audience for Pokemon.

really it's because it's just too convoluted for huge mainstream popularity like Pokemon.

In Pokemon, especially early gens, there's a very simple range of Pokemon who just conform to organic looking creatures, and all they do is evolve to grow bigger. In Digimon, you start with pretty normal looking creatures, but then you have weird evolution paths where a simple creature will digivolve into a half robot monster, and then for whatever reason revert back to the original creature. That sort of thing threw normies off compared to the simplicity of Pokemon.

Bandai's incompetence and relying too much on the anime to carry the IP back in it's glory days.

That’s not much of a positive when your target demographic is 7-8 year olds

It had a better anime but worse games.

The games change genres constantly.

not as kid friendly

More like games that weren't aimed at the lowest common denominator like Pokemon's.

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Digimon had incest in it. It was better though.

for that reason

the nintendo marketing machine was way better at appealing to the lowest common denominator.

>Pokemon acts like aninals
Well, a giant bomb magnetic and a fighter i don't think so but the others does so il pass.

>It look like fucking Digimon
I don't buy that fucking argument, those faggots don't know its origin and by looking those, they instantly cherrypicking and blaming Digimon as the fucking "rip-off" because of a stupid fucking reason while they making Pokemon as the "one and only" monster capture game.
Hell, this franchise was literally based on a tomogachi that i had as a kid.
Now these Pokefags blaming Yokai watch.

Yet the show constantly dealt with actually realistic themes it's audience could possibly go through while Pokemon was just a happy fantasy world where anime cruelty is OK and almost all the problems were solved at the end of each episode.

we say, "wow, that's ugly," because we don't have another franchise living rent free in our heads all day.

Also another factor to consider is that the Pokemon games have a social aspect in their mechanics so once it started to become popular, more people got into it as the games encouraged kids to trade or battle.

Digimon also had no brand synergy. While you're not really playing Ash in the Pokemon games, everything about the world, setting and staring monsters is consistent. It took 15 years for Digimon to include a game about the plot of the anime. Yet the digital world in every Digimon media is in constant flux. What Digivolving is possible from what Digimon changes in nearly every game. Even in direct sequels.

I don't think learning a new set of rules every time you pick up another game, book, or show really lends itself to the same sweeping kind of fervent passion both series wanted to inspire.

It did?

Pokemon are meant to stand in for animals though, Digimon weren’t.

I think Pokemon’s Greatest advantage over Digimon were the games, the first Pokemon games were fun and each built off of the previous one. Digimon’s games have always been less consistent and in my opinion their World Series in particular kind of sucks gameplay wise. The DS games which were standard turn based rpgs were better. And I’m betting cyber sleuth and survive will be better than both previous Digimon games and the present Pokemon ones.

It had the same premise of monsters and tamers but came out after.

Adventure was essentially a loose adaptation of DW1. Pretty sure if the game came out first in the US Bandai would both whore it and the anime at the same time.

>Adventure was essentially a loose adaptation of DW1.
Not really, it was more a combo of every piece of Digimon media at the time. Hence why Taichi was the main character because he was in V-Tamer.

Their American licensing partner for the anime marketed it as a Pokémon killer which Japan didn't agree to.

Digimon started with a social factor. Kids got into the digital pet thing a lot in the 90s and Digimon was the version that added battling. You'd physically connect them and they'd fight each other, which would lead to better digivolution paths. It was a core mechanic not present in the scene before that.

Anyone who claims the social aspect carried Pokemon, but not Digimon, is too young to actually remember the franchises at birth. The only reason Pokemon took off was the heavy marketing push with multimedia and quick tag lines and constant bombardment from release. Digimon was just one thing built on another for years.

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>The only reason Pokemon took off was the heavy marketing push with multimedia and quick tag lines
It was already a phenomenon in Japan before everything else came out user.

god damn why arent there more games like digimon world 1? i still think it's the peak of monster trainer games,hub world,pre rendered backgrounds,non linear main quest which doesnt revolve fetch quests as opposed to every game released after 2005,learning techs and variety of evolutions with specific requirements such as dying with angemon to turn into devimon,the only downside was how much it took to train a new digimon when it died,but still was awesome of a game and should've been remade or at least copied by now

Japan isn't really the greatest litmus test for these franchises. Just look at all the other monster games. But for the sake of argument just focusing on Pokemon, it was marketed world wide to become the success it was, and it happened over a shorter time period. The anime was localized shortly after a year and coincided with the launch of the games and a heavy merchandising push. There wasn't a lul between inception and each new media form like Digimon or other IPs. It wasn't exactly inovating anything on its own, but the idea of shoving it all out at once as if totally interconnected was new and that was what made Pokemon the best selling franchise of all time.

Just because it got a head start in Japan who really liked the stuff wasn't the key to the IP's success. It was the marketing push going global that was and still is.

I think DW1 is a product of a era. Back when developers weren't doing a formulated experiences and would throw things to see what sticks.
Next Order is as close as it will get.

>the game drops you off with no explanation about anything whatsoever, bar a few extremely vague badly translated messages that could mean anything
>the official strategy guide just feeds you lies
>every kid eventually brute forces the game by spamming healing disks (the equivalent of spamming full heals in pokemon) while their mon spams a cheap move (Poison Claw)
>or just quits because they couldn't figure out what combinations of stats they needed to get in order to not get Numemon
>took almost two decades for dataminers to dispell the hearsay like the sweat bubble isn't a care mistake and putting your mon to sleep ASAP is actually a waste of his precious hours of life
>"just git gud lmfao"

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>The only reason Pokemon took off was the heavy marketing push with multimedia and quick tag lines and constant bombardment from release
Yeah I'm sure it had nothing to do with the video games being fun and social

It took two full years for Pokemon to leave Japan

This.

the only trick to not get numemon is having high weight,if you played and paid attention to your digimon's stats you would've noticed this,but only by the time you were in the end of the game though

They did release a sequel of sorts on PSP in Japan. Same general game design in every aspect to DW1, except the prerendered graphics gave way to fully 3D environments. It was given an enhanced port with more content to the 3DS and that game spurred the campaign to localize Digimon games again. Ironically the one game that was closest to what the Western audience wanted is the only game that never got localized. Fan translations are either almost done or now finished however so you could play the game. There was also a similar style game where you raised two digimon at once that got localized on PS4 here also.

Some kids were just dumber than others. Those dumb kids grew up into dumb adults that still think this game is hard.

because digimon is gay as fuck nigga.

Because western Pokemon fans are fucking toxic and shit on anything that is "Pokemon-like" without experiencing it for themselves.

Same thing happened to Yo-kai Watch, except that was already decently hindered by the cultural ties it had to Japan; media made comparisons to Pokemon and it was writing on the wall.

>This topic again

>putting your mon to sleep ASAP is actually a waste of his precious hours of life
Cursed knowledge. Say goodbye to fun and challenge because with this little secret even the starter mon can easily hit Ultimate.

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>There wasn't a lul between inception and each new media form like Digimon or other IPs
user, that didn't happen until later. In fact 98 to the early 2000s was almost a constant stream of Digimon media from the v-pets themselves to the various manga series and video games.

Why was Yugioh not as popular as Pokemon?

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Loads of fun and social things never make it big. Most are quickly forgotten. Without the blitz Pokemon got coming west, and how quickly they remade the games in Japan and started releasing anime and merchandise it would have been forgotten as well.

genwun was trash, so it definitely had nothing to do with the games being fun. it was always about marketing. nintendo and game freak really worked every possible angle of cross-media promotion, from games to anime to trading cards to merchandise. pokemon was inescapable for a few years.
in contrast, the only aspect of digimon getting that much love at the time was the anime, and that's only because fox was promoting it instead of lazy-ass bandai. when the anime rights went to disney, digimon completely disappeared from the public eye in the west because now the franchise had nobody willing to put the effort in to promote it.

DW1 is the Dark Souls of monster-raising games.

>Loads of fun and social things never make it big.
That's literally the reason why pokemon became popular enough to reach the west in the first place. The wild age of the 90s wasn't the same as the modern day user.

Because the first game was niche and required actual thought from the player, the second and third games were grindfests, and the fourth game was an absolute trainwreck.
Pokemon may have its flaws but at least they know better than to try to fix what isn't broken by breaking it even harder.

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>but do you know what people say about the worst-looking Pokemon?
I've never seen anyone refer to the garbage line or the ice cream line as Digimon even though they are shat on constantly.

When they say "it looks like a Digimon", it's implied that it's not consistent enough with the other Pokemon designs of its genre. Ironically the Pokemon which looks like a Digimon the most is Blastoise because of its cannons on its back.

yu-gi-oh had its brief moment as a fad, but the truth is that most people aren't autistic enough to really care about trading card games. unlike pokemon, where the tcg is a side thing that fans don't have to interact with at all, yu-gi-oh is built entirely around the trading cards.
it doesn't help matters that yu-gi-oh cards are full of more fine print than an insurance ad.

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>kid me randomly learned mega spark from brains training
>got welfare ultimate, the teddy
>just completely wrecked everything the game had left to offer in an afternoon

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>Pokemon may have its flaws but at least they know better than to try to fix what isn't broken by breaking it even harde-

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Yeah, people like to support the original, that's why iPhones are still the best selling smartphones.

Came out at the worst opportunity overseas.
If it came out even a year earlier, it would sustained more popularity.

I mean, Digimon IS an anime, all the games are just games based on the anime, Pokemon is a videogame franchise.

The v-pets came out earlier than '98 for Digimon. I remember kids around school having them in '96. Sure once the '99-'00 era occurred where they saw what Pokemon pulled off every potentially multimedia franchise started milking itself for all it was worth. Hell, even Hollywood got in on it with stuff like The Matrix. Pokemon was basically the big success everyone wanted to copy, but it wasn't just because of the games. It was the whole bundle that managed to worm into every community at once.

It's part of the reason, sure. But it wasn't the only, or even major reason. It was the fact it was video games, anime, toys, card games, catchy theme songs, breakfast cereals, etc. It was everything and it happened almost overnight in the west. Pretending the social aspect was the most important is ignoring the fact it only managed to harness that social aspect by being in everyone's face by being part of all the possible childhood hobbies at the time. And on repeat in front of adults so they could easily understand what their kids wanted them to buy.

I wish there was a good Pokemon anime without that faggot as the protagonist, like the manga, it would be comfy as fuck and I could probably keep up with all the new pokemon and shit.

>Loading...

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It wasn't the cultural related stuff in Yo-kai Watch that hindered its performance, it's literally the entire "marketing campaign" that they had over in the West. Nintendo completely botched introducing it with those hard to sit through skits, Hasbro completely botched the merchandise as the first toyline released a week after Christmas (which clogged up Toys R Us shelves even as they were going out of business and having clearance sales), Disney put the anime on their premium channel and spent a lot of time advertising the meh to bad looking Yokai instead of the cool or cute ones, ViZ came out with that absolutely retarded article calling it a "Pokemon killer" despite that never being intended whatsoever, and Level-5 is at fault too for releasing the games over in the West literal years later and localizing them too late. Someone had to have an agenda, I would not be surprised in the slightest. You cannot fail this spectacularly on accident.

That said, Western Pokemon fans are cancerous and pull this same shit all the time. They feel threatened by every other franchise, and feel an impulse to shit on them.

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digimon came to the west almost a full calendar year before pokemon did. timing wasn't the issue, bandai's shitty marketing was.

At least in terms of games, I feel like the pokemon has a better more streamlined gameplay.
I tried cyber sleuth and O BOY are there design decisions that were fucking annoying.

I really liked the 3rd game. The world was comfy as fuck. Grinding wasn't really an issue either, like with 2.

Some of the quests gave me a lot of grief though as a kid. Finding Baronmon, the blue card, that mirage desert. Eventually I realized I'll just have to talk to every single NPC across the entire world if I'm stuck.

Submarimon made me stop playing for a couple of years, because I couldn't figure out where the egg is.

Mainly due to the lack of cohesion between the games, their videogame franchise started as a monster raising game, but then it started switching genres every release.

I know that. I'm saying that if it came even earlier than that.

it could have had a decade-long head start and it wouldn't have mattered as long as bandai wasn't willing to put the same marketing effort into digimon that nintendo put into pokemon.

on the contrary kids are smarter than you think and giving them a reason to come back next week so as not to miss what's going on is good.

>Busy, forgettable designs
>Generic "chosen one" plot versus Pokemon's simple premise of "gotta catch em all"
>Games that varied wildly in quality and had no mechanical consistency
>Constantly changing evolutionary paths and monster rosters even between direct sequels
>no single coherent setting, constantly reinventing itself
>nothing is really done with the whole "digital" theme until like season 4 so it comes as a cheap ripoff of Pokemon rather than an honest attempt at being its own thing
>not in Smash Bros

Take your pick, really.

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>Generic "chosen one" plot
Totally unlike pokemon's "chosen one" plot of defeating the super dangerous criminal organization Team Noun.

Level-5 has been really bad at thinking about localizing games on time. It's a wonder Layton did as well as it did and sped up localizations once the first game was a sure hit so western fans didn't have to wait 3+ years to finish the franchise. They don't seem to grasp the timing and it was definitely Nintendo picking up that slack for Layton that saved it. Yokai Watch was fucked from the start due to nothing going right so salvaging it via faster localization was doomed. No one likes to buy a game and find out 6 months later the finished complete version is releasing soon and that game they bought wasn't really worth it. Only to do that again. I'm surprised Nintendo didn't understand what works and doesn't from handling Layton and Pokemon in the past to see that as a really, really bad idea. Took them until the 3rd game to wake up, but the franchise was a zombie by then.

I really hope Level-5 stops trying to milk everything to death and finds something that works soon. It's really sad seeing them running around failing at 50 things at once.

All of those are a point for Digimon, except for the first, which is subjective.

Yeah, exactly. Anybody good at battling could have solved all the Team Noun crises, while Digimon protagonists are literally called "Digi-Destined."

I miss when Pokemon's evil team was just a roadblock to you catching more stuff. You didn't really care about their goals and just walked over them for more rare Pokemon for yourself. Pure, simple childhood greed beating some grand organization's plans.

>Anybody good at battling
good is an overstatement when your goons exclusively use shitmons, and no more than 3 of them at that

Literally no Pokemon game has a "chosen one" plot, no one ever tells you it's your job/mission to defeat team baddies, in every game you deal with them just because you run into them constantly or because your help is required since you are the strongest trainer in the region.

>nothing is really done with the whole "digital" theme until like season 4
why are you talking out of your ass about a series you know nothing about?
>not in Smash Bros
oh, right, because you're a stinky smashfag.

Because Digimon is hot garbage, simple as that

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>What I liked more about Pokemon was it was more believable
I've always connected more with Digimon, I think, because it represents a potential reality
The Digital World is a fantastical place but it's contained within the digital networks in the real world. The idea that digital consciousnesses could form and become "life" isn't a new one, Digimon is just presenting its own take on that idea.

Pokémon takes place in a completely fictional universe, with everything from a mouse that shoots lightning from its cheeks to a living magnet. The nature of what Pokémon are or how they came to be is largely left untouched, and is often at best attributed to vague analogies with real-world mysticism that doesn't actually exist in the Pokémon universe.

In short, when I think of the two franchises, the one that feels more likely to happen in our world is Digimon, and it was that realistic fantasy that grabbed me as a kid so much more than another fictional monster world.

i wonder what he meant by this

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Well, "good" is relative, isn't it? The average Pokemon trainer seems to consider two Weedles and a Pidgey a well-rounded team. Even the greats of the setting tend to obsessively theme themselves around a type. The fact that you the trainer are not particularly inclined to fall into that mindset is a huge step up.

I think that was just Gen I since even in GS you are asked to backtrack while there's no one blocking your way.

>Not in Smash Bros
Not for long

>An rpg game about collecting a bunch of monsters
vs
>raising a 5 pixle smear on a 1 inch led that dies in a week
it's not even a competition

like wise digimons anime is so much better it's not even worth comparing the two in that regard either

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>seething this hard over Smash

Well I'm glad you found something to zero in on so you didn't have to actually refute anything, since you know the post is completely accurate.

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The pokemon anime was more relatable.

>Literally no Pokemon game has a "chosen one" plot
every pokemon game has a "chosen one" plot. the protagonist is a special snowflake who stops the villains' diabolical plot simply by beating them at pokemon battles, wins the league, and catches all the mythicals and legendaries. arceus would never let itself be caught by average joe bug catcher from route 204, but it goes with the protagonist because they're the "chosen one."

Because lack of soul

We can hope. It blows my mind that there's never been an official Pokemon/Digimon crossover in all these years, I think it's about time it happened.

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>The pokemon anime was more relatable.
You're joking right?

Obligatory

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The anime was more mature and story-centric than Pokemon's, You could jump into pokemon's anime at any point and not feel like you've missed much because it was mostly a Pocket Monster of the week show. Digimon always had an over-arching plot that made you feel confused if you jumped in during the middle, making it less approachable
The games don't really have a consistent playstyle. Almost every single digimon game plays differently, even if they're in the same series of games, making audience retention harder. They should have picked a genre and held on to it
Children don't have as much of a concept of "bond with your bro" and prefer the idea of just collecting a bunch of things.
Digimon designs were rougher, dirtier and a little less approachable than Pokemon designs, some of them were "ugly-cute" which wasn't super appealing to kids at the time

there's never a point in any game were you can actually catch arceus, and events might as well not matter in the grand scheme of things, and being a prodigy doesn't not equal being a chosen one

>I remember kids around school having them in '96
Digimon v-pets didn't even exist in 96 so you're clearly lying.

so was that new Digimon series with the original characters any good?

Monster designs range from bland to overdesigned to a point of being unmemorable.
Pokemon had this too (much less of the latter, but plenty of the former), but one of these two things obviously did a better job of making memorable designs.

tri was the worse digimon media I willingly subjected myself to

The DigiDestined or Chosen Children really only have one qualification to meet
>witness a Digimon
That's literally it

By the end of Adventure 02 there's a bazillion Chosen Children because Digimon keep coming into the real world and fucking shit up

Ah the sweat irony.

>PunkAgumon will never be an official evolution

>some random kid sets out on a journey to play in a sports league and has incidental adventures on the way
vs
>six DIGI DESTINED are dragged into the DIGITAL WORLD to meet their DIGITAL PARTNERS and unlock the SACRED CRESTS to SAVE THE DIGITAL WORLD

I dunno, user.

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Digimon had more interesting characters, but Pokemon has the collection mindset where you wanted to collect all the Pokemon and show off to your friends.
Also Pokemon games were better then.
You had a lot of Pokemon to choose from to Barrie your friends with. How many Digimon do each of the people in Digimon have?
One?
It's like being married to Pikachu, that would suck.

digimon was too forward thinking I think for example in tamers they treat digimon like they're learning AI which is only recently becoming a thing. data can also change so that's why digivolutions work the way they do.

in contrast I'd think pokemon is much less believable. kids can just beat up corrupt organizations, can travel the world without parents, and get free shit where ever they go.

>I remember kids around school having them in '96.
Are you retarded? Tamagotchi didn't even come to the west until 97 let alone Digimon.

Digimon
>Various animals, monsters, robots, cyborgs, angels, demons, and random things like literal shit given slightly realistic details and designed with the intention of them beating the shit out of each others
Pokemon
>Lol animals, plants, and stuff but with their features exaggerated LMAO

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Maybe it was early '97 instead of late '96, but it sure as hell wasn't '98. Still have mine sitting around here somewhere all banged up from school yard games.

>this same random kid somehow manages to make it into every League (even if he never wins) and meet every legendary Pokémon
>in-game counterpart is a legendary trainer who's always one of the toughest fights in the game
When are they just gonna admit that Ash is some kind of messiah piece of shit and get it over with

Digimon
>digitals abominations with not sense
Pokemon
>actual monsters with mithology and serious backstory,quirky useful objects and lifestyle diversity.

I dunno user, the original 8 partner digimon were literally bred to be the chosen childrens/digidestineds partners

You never even watched the Digimon anime, have you? Or only watched a few episodes? The kids came from our world and deal with a bunch of actually relatable shit (Sibling neglection, divorce, parental dysfunction, being adopted, losing innocence trying to live up to your family name etc.) as opposed to going around a whimsical fantasy world where you're allowed to enslave creatures and have them fight for your amusement.

>Pokemon is a videogame franchise.
Not anymore.
Pokemon is a merch, phoneshit franchise.

>Pokemon
>>actual monsters with mithology and serious backstory,quirky useful objects and lifestyle diversity.

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If you took your time, you'd actually find a shitload of world-building in each Digimon's info.

So digimon is for broken kids and pokemon is for normal, functioning ones? Gotcha.

I like both.

I'd rather have a show with genuinely relatable characters going through realistic problems than basically The Simpsons of anime.

toy bios are the bottom of the barrel world building, and can and should be discarded at any cost

this is a gross oversimplification.
digimon's overall premise is more fantastical, but the main characters deal with realistic problems in their daily lives. the "digidestined" aspect isn't what makes them relatable - it's yamato and tk dealing with their parents' divorce. or henry's reluctance to fight because of the guilt he felt over injuring a kid while learning martial arts. or yoshino's inferiority complex from always being compared to her more-talented sisters.
pokemon's overall premise is more down-to-earth, but ash is an obnoxious retard who always has a ridiculous amount of plot armor until he gets to the league.

Tell that to Transformers and Bionicle fans.

>actual monsters with mithology and serious backstory
"Uh... There's a big space Llama with a ring around it. It kind of appeared one day and made everything. We waited four generations to reveal this fact because we thought the lore out deeply and didn't make this up on the spot"

ITT: Yea Forums creates the next Pokemon
Get the fuck in here anons.

>Has to accessible to normaltards and ADHD Zoomers
So the game should be on mobile and should have a "show, not tell" approach in terms of storytelling. Check. What other ideas, anons?

Bionicle also had games, movies and comics which I believe is where most of the lore comes from

Digimon didn't really emphasize a collection aspect, I suppose. With Ash, you could hope that he was going to catch a Pokemon you liked. Tai, meanwhile, was only ever going to have Agumon.

Digimon games are not fun. They are a grindfest.

Arceus isn't god of the universe, it's just some powerful pokemon that some ancient tribe thought was a god and your dumbass character being a literal child believed the ancient writings some adult talked about.

See, the thing is that's all nuance that comes later in the show. The first impression- and the one that matters when you're selling somebody on a setting- is that anyone can be a Pokemon trainer like Ash, but only very special people get to be Digimon tamers. It's instantly easy to imagine yourself starting out on a Pokemon journey- even more so thanks to the video games which deliberately put you in those shoes.

>Maybe it was early '97
It would have to be mid to late because the v1 v-pet was released in Japan June 97.

Because Pokemon is the perfect playground game. You have a team of 6 fully customizable party members and the games are easy enough not to ever restrict you. You could take 10 different kids and end up with 10 different teams of favorites. Even if half of them end up being starter/ early bird/ surf mon/ ???/ ???/ ???

Also that most Digimon media actually wants you to bond with your specific partner while Pokemon just wants you to collect a bunch of monsters and then bench them.

Pokemon Games > Digimon Games
Digimon Anime > Pokemon Anime

Classic Pokemon + Digimon era >>>>>> shit >>>>> nuMon garbage

Kids today are literally missing out.

>nuMon garbage
What is "nu"mon for either?

It's for both franchises

>Pokemon Games > Digimon Games
I would say this has become harder to argue for since X and Y

The cut off you idiot.

Exactly; Unlike the Pokemon anime that constantly holds your hand and is more of a glorified commercial for the current gen, Digimon actually focuses on telling a story with character development.

Yeah I mostly meant back in the day. Current day Pokemon and Digimon can miss me with that shit.

Pokemon seems conflicted on this. Because it throws in mechanics like friendship and amie to encourage bonding with pokemon but there's no possible way you can do that while also trying to catch em all. How are you going to bond with over 300 critters. You just have to catch a bunch and try to find a few to bond with

But the recent Digimon games have been some of the best

>ignoring all the digimon lore about how they existed before even discovered due the use of technology.
now i see why pokemon is popular, you just can't overcome the lowest common denominator which is majority

Shitty games.

well the dubbing for once didn't help digimon at all them having more serious topics to talk to. digimon is popular in latinamerica because we didn't get stupid edit versions like american do

>Pick a recent digimon game.
>Evolution are more a clusterfuck and play nothing like old ones or even previous.
>Pick a recent pokemon game.
>Core mechanics and evo lines are same and games in general have much more consistency.

Let's be honest, despite all the issues with pokemon games, they pretty much meet the expectations of a pokemon game. It's quite rare to see digimon stick same formula for more than 1 or 2 games.

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Slightly off topic but is Digimon Next Order good?

Alright, you got me fudging numbers. It was definitely not "early" '97 and closer to mid because there was definitely no way we played these things out in the snow. It's awkward remembering stuff based on school years. If it really did release in Japan in June then they really wanted to capitalize on the Tamagotchi market in NA because they didn't wait to release them here at all.

>Digimon Anime > Pokemon Anime
Tamers is definitely better, Adventure 1 and Savers/Data Squad are a little better, the rest are worse than the classic pokemon anime, by a lot. Hunters is on par with modern pokemon. Savers/DS is only arguably better because of Masaru/Marcus

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unlike the no-attention-span zoomers of today, people weren't judging an entire franchise by the first episode of the anime back then. those nuances mattered, and they're a big reason why the good seasons of the digimon anime are so fondly remembered.

I'd say the digimon story games are pretty consistent, the issue is that we stopped getting them after dawn/dusk

If you liked DMW1, you'll probably like Next Order

See you say that but with every generation the legends begin to become more literal. Like with Articuno the legends say it guides hikers down from snow filled mountains. Now is it actually doing that or is it a territorial bird that wants intruders to fuck off? Or did the hikers just follow it on its way to a hunt? That's a legend.

Gen 2 had Lugia who is the master of the sea who can calm storms. Now does it actually do that or did a sailor just happen to see it as a storm was ending and spread the story? That's a legend.

Fucking Groudon can LITERALLY set the sky on fire with nothing but its existence. That's not an exaggeration. Kyogre, left unchecked, will turn the earth into Neptune. Those aren't legends, this are facts

So when the Dex implied that Arceis is god I believe it

pokeon was easier to watch, softer color pallet
simpler designs, cuter creatures, less "adult" topics, easier motivation to understand, also the games were masive.

Not enough naked girls.

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Black and White bud, but that is the only one. In the Digimon games on the DS as least you’re player isn’t a chosen one. And in Digimon Tamers the kids aren’t Digi destined.

From what little I've played it's not far from the original DW1. It's a bit annoying with two digimon as one dying means you're dicking around wasting the other one's life until you catch them up which results in longer periods of training than the original. Still had the same feeling as the original and as a bonus KOing one of your digimon isn't a defeat because you can now revive it if your other one is still fighting. Helpful mechanic for bosses in a way.

I just want a pokemon version of cyber sleuth tbqhwy

Same and the monsters in digimon is kinda retarded. Pokemon after some gens is like that now too so you know when the last time I watched/played pokemon.

TCPI is hellbent retard and don't let Pokemon grow outside of usual shenanigans.

REburst for example pretty much got erased from existence, combine that with usual fact that spin offs barely do decent numbers and you know what is going happen.

Is cyber slueth considered a good digimon game because it was pretty ass imho

In game you always have more than one Digimon, only the anime characters are restricted to a single one. And those Digimon I like Pokemon can change into a wider variety of forms and change back into their original one.

It was the first game in eons to get localized after the big push for the Digimon World reboot everyone wanted. It's not a bad game, but it gets bonus points for filling the void and people wanted it to do well so the franchise would revive. Thankfully it did well enough the franchise is back to getting localizations and the games are getting better even in Japan.

I see, I only played DW1 a little bit at a friend’s house as a kid but I enjoyed it. Might get Next Order since it’s on sale on PSN

>Digimon IS an anime
>all of the games are just games based on the anime

Factually incorrect. Digimon started as a V-Pet, got an animated series after that as a form of advertising for the v-pets, and kept going from there. There's only a small handful of games with actual ties to the animes, while the large majority are their own self contained stories.

Generally more simple concept.

and also Warner Bros out marketed Fox by a huge margin. 4kids's americanization sucked but it made Pokemania work.

>then they really wanted to capitalize on the Tamagotchi market in NA
Well yeah, Digimon was apparently designed with a more western look.

The real reason is because Digimon is way too convoluted in many aspects, pokemon are (or at least used to be) basically just cooler animals and plants with special power that you could catch and there's some bad guys who enslave them so you have to stop them. Digimon are internet things that you are chosen to be worthy of and they only exist in the internet world but sometimes they come here but that's not good so you have to prevent it, also the evolution process in some cases are also convoluted and strange, not to mention the designs of late stage digimon that look like some edgy kid's deviantart designs
Pokemon just feels more natural and wholesome

The 3DS was a pretty fucked era for localization. I imagine SMt could've had a proper revial if we didn't get a yer late(even more for EU). Ace Attorney, EO, Layton. All these fucking series basically made irrelevant in the west thanks to the companies just not fucking localizing any 3DS games.

>the villain of Sun/Moon points this out
>everyone tries to pretend she's wrong

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lol I just dont understand some of the designs in the game
>need shit ton of api points to evolve
>stat increases need to be farmed - a requirement for evolution
>inorder to recruit digimon you need to encounter it multiple times
I just couldnt finish the game because of these ass restrictions.
Are these common in other Digimon games? Everything else was pretty decent.

>pokeMON
>has a ton of fuckable monster
>digiMON
>they all evolve into humans and/or machines
If you're going to advertise a monster show, you should include fuckable monsters. Otherwise, you're just competing against the other animes with generic waifu bait.

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funny thing is that the intended message went flying over most pokefags' heads, since they've been defending dexit by writing off the majority of pokemon as "box fillers" just like lusamine does.

The irony.

Because Digimon didn't have a foundational product for all the other products to build off of. Pokemon is entirely based off Gamefreak's main RPG with everything else from toys, animes or game spinoffs utilizing those games what their shit is based off of.

Digimon on the otherhand doesn't know what it is. It started off as a Tamagachi stylized toy but over time what came to represent and direct the franchise was the anime which would introduce shit out of thin air in order to include a plot for the story of whatever anime was going on. The end result was an inconsistent mess. Digimon World is arguably the only tolerable Digimon game and it really isn't that inclusive especially for its main targeted audience. Also having one Digimon partner rather than an unlimited amount of Pokemon isn't that appealing, especially when that Digimon partner usually only has one move to use.

>Lusamine was fucking great on SM.
>USM turns her into a dindu and most of her wrong doing were petty.

I'm still pissed about it.

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Because they couldn't decide what the fuck they wanted digimon to be, and people probably got sick of never knowing what the fuck they were gonna get.
You buy a pokemon game you have a pretty good idea what you're in for, you buy a digimon game and you're basically taking a gamble. It could be exactly what you wanted, something completely different, absolute shovelware, or just a completely bland and forgettable game that you would never have otherwise touched if you weren't nostalgic for the brand.

>If you're going to advertise a monster show, you should include fuckable monsters.
they did.

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I love lillithmon,but you'd be lying out of your ass if you tried to tell me she was remotely monstrous in appearance

>she still has the room of frozen Pokemon, though

Battle Monsters, Adventure and Slice of Life vs. Battle Monsters (that can die and you have restart the proccess) and Story. Plus, Pokemon was better marketed to children

What are Ganondrof and Aryll doing together?

>Kids today are literally missing out.

They really aren't. The Pokemon anime follows the same formulaic pattern since its inception, the only difference is that the animation is a lot more fluid. You can complain all you want about the modern redesigns, but the animation is leagues better than the original.

And regards to Digimon, classic Digimon era had Adventure 2 which was one of the worst followups to an anime. An absolute fucking mess.

old good new bad

Thread should have ended here. The rest of reasons commented on this thread are either secondary or inaccurate.

Pokemon universe is retarded and has lots of incoherencies, but at least there was an effort to build it prior to the release of the first game, and gave it shape.

Digimon only came to be as popular after the anime (which was undeniably better than pokemon's) and it didn't have all that autistic work behind the consolidation of its world and premises. Mostly cool, edgy designs that didn't take themselves too seriously without much of a solid context. This could only go so far compared to pokemon, which was way more successfully ambitious about itself.
I personally liked knowing how many pokemon were there and knowing all about every single one of them. Digimon on the other hand? Who knows how many there are, who gives a crap.

Every poor fuck had a game boy, there wasn't a good Digimon game until the PSX era, they missed a very vital generation

Yeah, the issue of Japanese game design is some excessive grind mechanics for sake of other JRPGs use grinding. I've only played the original World and it didn't do grinding like that game, but it was also a totally different kind of game. Still had some grind, but it felt more natural at least and was the core mechanic of the game.

I don't expect the new game coming out next year to have such restrictions. It's less a typical JRPG base and looks more like an SRPG, but who knows? Like others have pointed out the franchise's games are kind of notorious for genre hopping. Unless it's a "Digimon Story" game which is more classic JRPG style across those.

sweet mother of overdesign, please fucking put that thing down

>Thread should have ended here.
no it shouldn't have, because kids don't care about a "cohesive world or rules." that's just the type of shit pokefags come up with in hindsight because they don't want to admit their series' success was all based on marketing and nothing else.

>toy bios
>implying the Digimon Reference Book, the various manga volumes and storylines, short stories, drama CDs, animes and games' lore are just 'toy bios'

You could at least try to make your oversimplification less blatant

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>overdesign
meaningless buzzword.

>only very special people get to be Digimon tamers

You're thinking Digi-destined, children chosen by God to help the Digital World when it's in danger. Tamers are literally any Joe Q. Public who's made friends with a Digimon.

your argument is meaningless

Because they are pretty explicit about them being digital monsters from another world and dimension while Pokemon has world building where the Pokemon are part of everyday life and everyone has access to them. A person's team composition can say a lot about them as a character too.

Pokemon world has potential to tell great stories about everyone in it, Digimon really only has potential to tell stories about those chosen to have Digimon friends.

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> ever using the word "overdesigned" as if it holds any meaning

that's how you spot a poke fag with pens envy tbqh

Pokemon cards, everyone had them and played with or traded them

>played with them
I don't know a single kid in 4-5th grade 20 years ago who played with them. Almost every kid just bought them to get a shiny rare card and be the cool kid in school. They never actually played the fucking game.

literally everything is meaningless, genius. If you're so enlightened go do something better with your life instead of shitposting here

>An absolute fucking mess.
Its kind of hilarious in hindsight because all they did was bring everything in the series together like they did with adventure. The difference is that instead of using the assets, locations etc to build a new story they tried to coalesce the stories and have them all be different parts of a whole.

which is the best Digimon game?

This scares and intimidates the pokemon fag

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Right now? Probably Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth: Hacker's Memory.

cannondramon is lame
LLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE

It also doesn't help that Ken's backstory was intrinsically linked to the Wonderswan games, which all but the first one are Japan exclusive.

Hell that kinda hurt Tamers' story too, considering the fact Ryo shows up at all in that series is because of the Wonderswan games and his story through them.

the virgin cannondramon
the chad marsmon

Not really. The real problem with Digimon's designs emerges in the form of the sheer amount of knight/mecharobot type designs in the higher levels, at least in my opinion. Shit like the Royal Knights, which all have a very same-y appearance despite their differences.

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>no it shouldn't have, because kids don't care about a "cohesive world or rules."

Sure they do. Not in a conscious way, and you ain't gonna hear no kid rationalise his tastes this way, or any sensible way at all.

If you want that reasoning a bit more digested here it goes: the games were way more interesting, and in many ways. And these many ways were even better because they were connected in a fashion that produced a sense of cohesion that was engageing.

The objectives, the well defined collection of monsters, the social aspect of the game with the merit of being in a time where internet wasn't really a thing yet. It just sucked you in in a way that digimon just couldn't.

What did digimon have besides the success of the anime? Games were obscure and didn't get out of their machines like the pokemon games did, and the collective aspect just didn't work because there just wasn't a grasp on what was being collected, not by the public, and probably not by the devs either.

why didn't you post the good one

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That's what I was referring to.

The monster designs have different philosophies.
Kids love the idea of taming wild animals as your friends and then becoming bros with them all the while beating the shit out of other magical animals.

Looks like a Final Fantasy villain.

The games were all massively shit

The mechas I can more-or-less turn a blind eye too, considering the 'digital' theme and the fact that they've had mechas since the earliest inceptions of the franchise, but I'll agree to there being a whole lot of knight-looking Digimons and do miss when we had more monstrous designs.

Digimon is more SMT like in terms of designs and lore, it was heavily inspired by it as Watanabe himself said, why isn't anyone making Digimon vs Megaten threads?

Also, post """overdesigns"""

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is there a good digimon gacha?

It's weird because the problem is mostly confined to Mega levels. Ultimate and below you have varied humanoid designs. Compare Wizardmon to Lilymon, Ranamon to Mummymon, or Angemon to Shawjamon. Humanoid designs below Mega seem far more diverse.

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post big digimon feet

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Digimon Rearise is coming out soon in the west. I've been playing the Jap version, and it's very f2p friendly, although that's likely to be changed in the localized version.

>digimon was too forward thinking I think
I'm not sure about that. That kind of story was kinda normal during the early 2000s. There were lots of stuff about PCs, AI, the internet, etc and how it could influence the world. Stuff like .hack//, Lain, Paprika, Ghost in the Shell, but also in Western media (though I'm not as well versed in it and can't remember most names). Pretty much every cartoon had an episode about machines gaining consciousness.
None of those stories were really believable, but Digimon didn't really stood out as an outlier.

This still infuriates me because Lusamine was a cunt but she was a cunt you could understand. And it gave Lillie and Gladion something to stand up against

Because the Digimon evolutionary line is a complete mess. Everything can turn into everything leading to no self-cohesion and you lose a lot of the "special" feeling that Pokemon provides with its concrete evolution lines. It's so bad that in Cyber Sleuth I had no idea what my starter Digimon ended up turning into killing any sense of camaraderie with my Digimon. At best you have anime lines but even that changes constantly and you get stuff like ToyAgumon turning into Greymon which looks like it makes no sense at all.
It also doesn't help that the World game was the first one everyone was introduced to which meant everyone expected their shit to die almost immediately, frustrated people with Numemons/Sukamons, and then the next game they released was essentially a Story game under the World banner.

There's no glue to hold Digimon together, it's essentially winging it all the time.

No, even in Tamers you first need to get lucky to find a Blue Card to get a D-Power device.
Or be lucky enough to somehow end up in the digiworld.

>Sure they do. Not in a conscious way, and you ain't gonna hear no kid rationalise his tastes this way, or any sensible way at all.
translation: "sure they do. not based on any actual proof, but because i just really want my headcanon narrative to be true."
>the games were way more interesting
they really weren't. rgby was one of the most barebones, primitive rpgs of all time. people weren't buying it for action-packed gameplay or riveting stories, they were buying it because pokemon was trendy and all their friends were buying it too. it was purely marketing-based, not quality-based.
say what you want about digimon world 1, it was an ambitious and unique game that has still only been duplicated by its own sequels (re:digitize and next order).

>which makes no sense at all

It makes perfect sense once you realize that Digimon don't evolve like biological beings, they're data. They just take in whatever data is in their environment, daily life and/or consumed from other Digimon and then when they evolve, their new form reflects that. ToyAgumon becoming Greymon simply means that a Machine like ToyAgumon had enough draconic data absorbed to become a 'real boy' like Pinocchio.
On top of that, Digimon do have evolutions that 'make more sense', it's just that due to their fluid nature as data, they have potential options to become something different.

It got far worse, at least in Re:Digitize. You basically need Mega stats or hundreds of recovery disks if you plan on venturing past the half way point of the game. The problem is that Rosemon's gym only gets you 100 per training and if you fail it's like 20. Coupled with you doing this I think 6 times in a row means you need to spend the next three or four in-game hours running from the coliseum to the doctor (Because it takes roughly an in-game hour to run around one street of the city) and then back again. Once you get to endgame it becomes far better because you can cut out the absolute shit timescale, but until that point it's hours of grinding.

>although that's likely to be changed in the localized version.
You say that but Bamco is pretty lenient on the west when it comes to gatcha, just look at dokkan.

This.

>The only reason Pokemon took off was the heavy marketing push with multimedia
That kind of shit doesn't spawn by itself out of nowhere, it's a result of market demand/appeal

Maybe
All I know is that the Jap version is very generous with premium currencies, and doesn't force you to grind the same digimon over and over like they did with Linkz.
Once you get someone you like, it's yours to keep.

I will say this: as shit as pokemon's world building is at least its consistent. From the moment you start the game you know what you're there to do, leave home, visit 8 gyms, challenge the regional government, and take down a crime lord along the way. There might be some slight differences like how Kanto is obsessed with mad science, Johto being a backwater region still amazed at the radio, Hoenn's environmental shit, and Sinnoh being a mining/ fossil region but its always coherent

Of course they do. I wasn't the only child that was annoyed by all the non-nonsensical shit they pulled off or how a new season threw the entire world-building from the previous one out of the window.
Same shit with Pokemon btw. The series was a joke, because every episode is the same, Ash being a stupid idiot and resetting itself with every new generation.
Most children I knew stopped watching at that point.

and it got to the point where nobody gave two fucks about the "v pets" and only ever knew about the anime

the games ranged from mediocre to crap, which didn't help

>generic overdesigned fantasy villain
>monster
You digimonfags are so delusional.

With that logic every protagonist ever is a chosen one. That's not how it works, there's nothing in the narrative about how the MC is destined to be a hero or some shit - said "destiny" only comes from the fact that you're playing as that character, which is again not part of the narrative

>nobody gave two fucks about the "v pets"

Maybe stateside, but the v-pets never stopped in Japan. Hell, they've got a new one that came out just this year with its own storyline.

Why does it seem like people believe you can only like one or the other? Is this console wars mentality in action with people shrieking at each other that you MUST be the enemy if you're not siding with them on this stupid debate?

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>they have potential options to become something different.
Which is why it's a massive problem. There's no evolutionary cohesion because even anime lines change what can turn into whatever they feel like or what is available depending on the game. This means you view every Digimon as an amorphous blob rather than something you can really befriend or at least form a bond with like they do in the anime. Compare this to Pokemon where evolution lines make far more sense and feel far better because you know what to expect and aim towards.

That's one major reason why I dislike Digimon's approach and I assume others do. You can go in one game and get Agumon's line proper (Koromon to Agumon to Greymon to Metal/SkullGreymon to Black/Wargreymon to Omegamon), but then in another you go from Koromon to Agumon to Meramon to Mamemon to Puppetmon to Apocalymon. It's got no sense to it at all unless you view it as an amorphous blob which kills the experience for someone.

The only Tamers that actually had Blue Cards grant them a Digivice were Takato, Henry and Rika. Juri, Kazu, Kenta, Suzy, the two kids that Impmon became friends with didn't, and Ryo had his Digivice from another dimension so he doesn't really count either.

Through other sources, Tamers are just defined as someone who 'raises a partner Digimon', and doesn't even specifically need to get their own Digivice to do it, just that most do since that's easier to show for an audience. Hell in the Savers universe, Digivices can be manufactured and theoretically mass-produced, if the government weren't trying to keep Digimon a secret from the public.

pokemon master is better,get over it.

>I personally liked knowing how many pokemon were there and knowing all about every single one of them
because the marketing for pokemon was top notch "gotta catch them all" is part of the title name, the number "151" was spoken in every sentence
the names are also handled better, in pokemon the names are translated to reflect what they are, except pikachu
the digimon names are japanese ones that won't tell anything to the regular non nip child
we can also say the licence has a mascot, unlike digimon
finally, pokemon took place in a relatively "fantasy" setting, where you need to travel on your feet on natural landscape, while digimon tried the science fiction approach, and we all know science fiction is for nerds

no, most people stopped watching pokemon when the gs ball arc turned out to be a huge flop and the anime got trapped in filler hell.
most kids really don't care about rules or consistency, they just don't want to be bored, and pokemon's anime got boring for a long time.

>the protagonist is a special snowflake
The closest pokemon protag to that was the ORAS protag and you don't see it until Delta.

>and pokemon's anime got boring for a long time.
fuck, don't remind me
>the team rocket members finally started to pick up and be competent
>stakes are getting higher and higher
>lol no, alola reset
at this point pokemon still rules because there are no other worthy competitor beside memekai watch with retarded chara-design

>Why does it seem like people believe you can only like one or the other?
it's mostly just game feak apologists who don't want to give anything else a chance. most digimon fans also like pokemon, we're just not going to worship the brand and ignore all its flaws.

>because kids don't care about a "cohesive world or rules."
Yes they do, you retard. That's why 90s action cartoons started having more dedicated continuity and stuff like anime became more popular. Seeing Ash's pokemon party grow and change was a huge appeal. There was stuff to look forward to and you were rewarded for paying attention. And what said still applies. Kids still got fed up when the show contradicted itself or contradicted the games. And less people watched the pokemon anime when it became more obvious that Ash would forget what he learned every new generation and not make any significant progress as a trainer.

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>this means you view every Digimon as an amorphous blob rather than something you can really befriend or at least form a bond with

Each Digimon is still its own individual, regardless of the form it takes. At that point, you're not bonding with your individual Digimon, you're bonding with the form your Digimon takes.

Pokemon's anime was better.

>worse games overall, bad pokemon games didn't start until 3DS
>about half of digimon designs are terrible, that's more like a quarter for pokemon
>anime was very hit or miss between parts, pokemon was way more consistent

Basically, Digimon is a hot mess of a series with high highs and low lows. Pokemon is way more palatable to your average person. Digimon has pretty much been cornered into being weebshit. Bandai knows this and that's why the digimon games are basically just persona rip-offs.

Seeing this post and that KidsWB pic reminded back when the Animaniac's writers got butthurt over Pokemon and Power Rangers being popular.

The only part of the pokemon anime that was "better" was the fact that it was easier to follow and even then that comes from the simple monster/antagonist of the day structure.

>you're bonding with the form your Digimon takes.
Which doesn't really work. Again, my Terriermon in Cyber Sleuth became something that wasn't part of the Terriermon anime line and then kept getting de-digivolved and then digivolved over and over to the point that I have no idea who he is anymore. I don't even think he's part of my main team and hasn't been for a while. The form isn't as important as the individual creature, and if you can't even recall how your creature followed you along your journey you have a big problem when you're a series about raising something and taking care of it because you don't even know where it originated whereas in Pokemon (and even Yokai Watch for that matter) you know where your creature started and where it will stop. There is none of that in Digimon because they're all basically impersonal molding clay.

Kek. I remember that.
>"Why the fuck do kids want to watch shows about going on adventures in worlds with monsters and robots?! They should be watching our show about celebrity references they won't get and 90s pop culture memes that'll be dead by the time the show airs!"

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And why Nostalgia Critic has a raging hateboner for Pokemon

I remember in the sub she made a penis joke. The digigirls are lewd as fuck.

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>over 1000 episodes
>better
sure

>the form isn't as important as the individual creature

You're getting my point backwards; I'm saying that the individual is more important than the form it takes. If you're losing track of which Digimon is which simply because it changed forms, then you're the one making Digimon into impersonal molding clay and caring more about the form than the individual.

I'm not surprised that happened. Animaniacs, Freakazoid, Tiny Toons, and Pinky & the Brain were just shows about a bunch of Spielberg's hires laughing at their own jokes.

It's no wonder the animators who worked on those shows preferred working on BTAS.

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Nah. Pokemon had an overarching story and plot just like Digimon.

>"sure they do. not based on any actual proof,

You talking like someone in here has proof for anything regarding this subject. It's a complex matter and we all give our impressions on it.

>they really weren't. rgby was one of the most barebones, primitive rpgs of all time.
Yet with a genuinely interesting gimmick that made all the difference to make a successful franchise around it. There's the quality, and marketing was good enough to make it shine. Digimon world might have been good and unique in its own way, but it's just not comparable. Also it released years after pokemon debuted. There was no chance for it to be half as successful.

this has devolved into console wars-esque "discussion" and yet you continue

>I'm saying that the individual is more important than the form it takes.
Both are equally as important to the experience. A Charizard will still be that Charmander you got from Oak right at the start of the game and you can reinforce that because that's its evolutionary line leading to both consistence and coherency. Your Terriermon could be a Lilithmon by the end of it becoming an entirely different gender and going from an animal to a demonic human. Hell, you can take Tentomon into Sunflowmon into Angewomon into Magnadramon. None of it flows or makes any sense, if you saw a Magnadramon would you immediately think "Oh wow, I remember back when you were a Tentomon"?

You end up losing the reinforcing coherence that Pokemon and even something like Yokai Watch allow (Noway evolves into Walldin keeping the Japanese wall theme).

I'm just trying to get my point accross. I'm interested in this subject.

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>if you saw a Magnadramon would you immediately think "Oh wow, I remember back when you were a Tentomon"?

If you raised that Digimon from start to finish, you wouldn't just be looking at a Magnadramon and thinking "You used to be a Tentomon", you'd be looking at the Digimon you raised and thinking "You used to be a Tentomon". The way you're writing it makes it look like you're just looking at any random Magnadramon and not one that you spent your time and attention raising.

Again, this exact problem happened to me. My Terriermon ended up becoming a Greymon and then I lost which Digimon he was. That shouldn't happen period.

But that's a you problem, not a problem with the concept.

>not a problem with the concept
How is that not a problem? The fact you can even lose which Digimon it was in the first place is already the problem.

>pokemon was way more consistent
Yes, being a constant shit most seasons

Again, that's a problem with YOU not being able to keep track of which Digimon is which, and not a problem with the concept of Digimons having the potential to evolve into different forms.

Why can't we be friend?

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yee
post frens

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How is it not a problem with the concept of different forms? The concept itself causes the confusion in the first place. With no coherent transformation line you can't figure out which Digimon it was at a glance. Step away from your game for a month and come back then try to figure out which Digimon out of your 100ish was your starter. Unless it's the only Digimon of that specific type chances are you won't even know which one it was. Meanwhile, if you leave Pokemon for years you can still know which Pokemon you started with right out of the gate simply because of its simple evolution line.

Pokemon at least has the coherence that keeps it all together and keeps a player on their adventure knowing what to expect and knowing the general idea of what everything is. Even with the Digimon types you basically have to guess what's a Data, Vaccine, Virus, or Free. Virus can be gleaned by the fact they look completely evil, but besides that the other ones are completely random.

It's not a problem with the concept because there's all sorts of variables that, if you're having a hard time identifying one Digimon from another, you can attribute to your different Digimons to individualize them more; from nicknames to moves known to accessories, depending on what game you're playing.

This is either a problem with the player, not being able to keep track, or a problem with the application of the concept from game to game and not a problem with the concept itself.

We're speaking on a conceptual level with this, not from a game level. Imagine if none of those nicknames or accessories existed. How can you tell a Terriermon Lilithmon apart from a Tailmon Lilithmon at a glance? Where is the coherence that a Terriermon can turn into a Lilithmon and a Tailmon can turn into a Lilithmon? What is even the evolutionary path you need to take to reach such a thing? Even evolutionary lines don't meld properly. Animals can turn into plants can turn into insects can turn into vehicles all one after the other. There's nothing to keep a person grounded in the actual Digimon universe because it's hard to follow. Everything is constantly changing instead of having something you can hold onto. Agumon randomly gains his later anime forms but sometimes discards earlier anime forms. ShiningGreymon is a world of difference from Wargreymon, yet they're both evolutions of a four-legged animal, and you might have one transformation but not the other.

That's why Digimon is so hard for people to care about, there's nothing to grab onto and even when you can find something small like anime digivolutions they can still sweep the rug out from under you and decide that's not good anymore.

Then let me flip it around; how can you identify one Charizard from another you've raised? There's just as little identifying factor, from an objective "taking a step back" standpoint, from any two Pokemon species as there are for Digimon species.

When it comes to an individual Digimon or Pokemon that you've raised, the path taken from one form to another doesn't matter as you should still know which ones are which if you're paying attention and individualizing them.

>Yet with a genuinely interesting gimmick
...which was mostly ripped off from megami tensei and dragon quest v.
the one thing pokemon had that stood out was the living dex, but that's gone now and pokemon fans are actually defending it.

>How is it not a problem with the concept of different forms?
because not everyone is as retarded as you are.

>...which was mostly ripped off from megami tensei and dragon quest v

You could exchange monsters with your buds during recess in those games in order to complete them? Wow atlus does suck at marketing.

>There's just as little identifying factor, from an objective "taking a step back" standpoint
Fair enough.
>the path taken from one form to another doesn't matter as you should still know which ones are which if you're paying attention and individualizing them.
But the problem with Digimon's take on it is that there's far more to take into account and you can't look to the design to know its origins. Even if you know the path you took the Charizard only took two evolutions and its design points to it being a Charmander in its original state because it's an evolution. This leads to you growing closer to it much easier and leads you to remembering it far better.
A Lilithmon points it it being virtually anything in its original state. It could have come from a Tailmon, it could have from from an Agumon, it could have come from a Wormmon, etc. This fact alone leads to it being much more impersonal regardless of how you trained it. Again, cohesion is the massive thing missing from Digimon because even in anime lines they don't make much sense. A SkullGreymon looks nothing like a regular Greymon and may as well be evolved from anything else. Where is the cohesion in Digimon? It's complete anarchy in terms of designs.

>Why was Digimon not as popular as Pokemon?

Nintendo did pretty much the perfect marketing blitz. They were already hyping up the Pokemon release with Nintendo power including little Pokemon comics, around the same time of release you also got the cards, anime and Electric Tale of Pikachu. There was more crosspromotion with KFC plushies as well. When the Digimon anime arrived there was just the virtual pets before it and....that's pretty much it. During the height of the Pokemon crazy as a kid you could literally consume nothing but Pokemon products day to day be it games, cards, anime, comics, whatever.

Even so, most kids preferred the Digimon anime because "they actually die!!!"

>You could exchange monsters with your buds during recess in those games in order to complete them?
like i said in the very next sentence that you ignored:
>the one thing pokemon had that stood out was the living dex
of course, the fact that swsh is going to sell 15+ million like always despite having no national dex is proof that pokemon's success has nothing to do with the games' quality or features. it's all about the marketing and the brand loyalty it created.

You could literally sell people shit in a box if enough people believed that said shit was worth it for one reason or another.

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Cmon, we all know nobody actually owned a link cable, let alone brought it to school.

>This fact alone leads to it being much more impersonal regardless of how you trained it.

What? No, it makes it more personal. You know a Digimon turned into Lillithmon because you took good care of it. If it turned into something like Myotismon it's because you let it take a shit on the floor too many times or it got injured in battles. Chances are you'll remember exactly the circumstances as to why you couldn't get it to the toilet in time or that battle that was so brutal it injured your Digimon. Digimon is pretty clear as to which digivolutions are the "you fucked up" ones and which aren't, it's like raising your child and watching what they become because of how your raised them.

of course, this element is completely lost in games where there are no virtual pet elements. digivolution lines only make sense from a virtual pet standpoint because digivolving is supposed to be feedback as to how you raise them. Evolutions in Pokemon have a totally different purpose

I just wish they toned down the Omegamon shilling and gave my bro a bit of appreciation

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This.
On my first playthrough as a child I played so much before beating it.Like 500 hours worth of gameplay,eventually i got a biyomon which evolved to kokatorimon and then piximon,then a I cheesed through mt infinity with alot of healing disks and poison claw,poison claw attack took very few damage but the poison debuff took like 200-300 hp which was great

You're acting as if we're playing World games when we're speaking in a general sense for evolution and raising something. In a Story game the Digimon are a "Who cares" kind of thing. They're not special in any sense of the word. You constantly have to dedigivolve and the digivolve over and over again just so that it can gain higher levels and become different Digimon. It leads to the entire experience being impersonal because the forms mean next to nothing and every single Digimon will be the exact same stat-wise when they're that specific Digimon. At best the name will differentiate them. There's no special factors, there's no coherent line, you're basically all over the place.
In a World game you'll learn the evolutions, but at the same time there's still no coherence. Why does a pile of poop turn into a bear? Because they're both yellow? Why does a dinosaur turn into a walking flame man that can turn into an ape that can turn into a metal ball with a claw?

World games do the raising thing far better because that's what they're meant for and you can at least get attached to your Digimon while Story games do a horrendous job at it, but at the end of the day Digimon's problem is that there's no coherence because anything can become anything leading to people finding it incredibly hard to get into or care about. With Pokemon they have things they can learn and easily understand without massive deviations. Ultra Beasts are as far as they go and even then those are treated as otherwordly creatures and they have no evo lines outside of Nebby who is already made abundantly clear that it has a ritual that turns it into Solgaleo or Lunala.

The point I'm trying to make here is that Digimon is all over the place and has no idea what it wants to be, it wants to be everything, but in a monster collecting/raising genre that leads to people being barely able to recall anything that isn't set in stone like the anime line.

because digimon world was unironically too complicated for the average normie to understand, so it sold like shit compared to pokemon

and the digimon lore is simply much more niche than pokemon, pokemon is absolute normie trash while digimon tried to go 2deep4u and shit

Pokemon had the anime, card game, and gb games, so lots of marketability, but Digimon has a better story.

>Why does a pile of poop turn into a bear?

Because the data it absorbed and its environment/training. Easy.

Again, you're acting as if that makes sense when you already know the context and accept it. If I look at a bear I don't think it evolved from a pile of poop, I think it evolved from a smaller bear, so when the pile of poop evolves into a bear it makes no sense even with your explanation. It's like a crab evolving into a squid because it gained more data of the water. If Charmander evolved into Wartortle would you agree with it because he's already a mammal and gained some information about water? Because that's the equivalent of what we're talking about here.

This already takes people way out of what you're trying to sell them on because it makes no sense when looking at the thing. You have to sell someone on the "It's a blob that absorbs data" concept and that immediately kills any joy they would have compared to "It's this creature that naturally changes to this slightly bigger creature that looks just like it". The former leads to confusion and inability to agree with it because it makes no sense, the latter leads to people accepting it because they can believe the consistency and coherence.

I can't stress this enough, coherence is what gets people through the door, it's why everyone remembers anime lines in Digimon but as soon as you get into the games they start tuning out.

>If I look at a bear I don't think it evolved from a pile of poop

This only works if you're looking at just random members of the species, and not individuals you've raised. The 'cohesiveness' that you're talking about only matters when looking at random unrelated Digimons as a whole, and not as individuals.

The designs weren't as appealing, everything evolved from a nice simple monster into a metal clusterfuck. Not to mention the literal Turdmon.

>disk spam
literally me. kid me beat mt infinity with a numemon with poop throw learned from spamming brain training, backed up by a million hp floppies funded by selling sirloin
needless to say i always got numemon because my mon's weight was always 1 on account of me making mad dosh

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>The 'cohesiveness' that you're talking about only matters when looking at random unrelated Digimons as a whole
Which is the entire point of a monster catching/raising game. There needs to be a sense that everything works in a way that makes sense, even Yokai Watch understands this which is why everything that has an evolution evolves into something that looks like it would logically evolve into. Digimon only has this in anime lines, and if a kid gets his Agumon and expects to get a Greymon he's going to be incredibly pissed when he gets a Meramon or a Tyranomon.

Yes, Digimon works in the way you're saying, you have to look at the Digimon as an individual rather than a species, but that's not what people are wanting or expecting. When they get a monster raising game they want the species that you raise to change in logical increments instead of an amorphous blob that goes all over the place then goes back to square one to do it all over again which they can't even really plan for without jotting everything down. It's basically going "Here's a bunch of stuff that can turn into other stuff, go wild" when people want "Here's a bird that turns into a bigger bird, here's a crab that turns into a bigger crab, here's a jellyfish that makes you hate life", etc.

But those expectations aren't a problem with the concept, they're a problem with the player basing their expectations on another, unrelated monster-based franchise.

They never had a game good enough to compete with pokemon. Love the anime more than pokemon though, it was more mature and had more development and risks than ash, who after a while, we figured out would never stop being a cuck.

what's funny is that the people who whine that digimon doesn't work exactly like pokemon are the same people who whine that digimon is a "ripoff" of pokemon. can't have it both ways. either it's a "ripoff" or it's different and people need to adjust their expectations accordingly.

Even taken in a vacuum the game is giving you random creatures from random creatures. One day you could have a flying insect, the next you could have a mech, and you won't know why that happened leading to a bunch of confusion. Even if you know that happened because of the stat output and it having obtained certain data, people still won't respond to it as well as something that makes a logical progression. It's basically rolling a dice every single time you get a creature hoping you get something good.

You'll grow an attachment to the amorphous blob that is that creature, but the actual designs are all over the place putting people off. Again, that's why the anime lines work so well, because they're a mostly confined and logical progression of a certain Digimon which is why those draw people in more than stuff like Betamon. There's something to follow and think "Yeah, this makes sense".

I want to make it very clear, I like both games and Yokai Watch, but this is how people from the outside see it, it's also how my relatives even see Digimon.

Digimon had it's own "monster of the week" plots hell every episode early on was literally "who's going to digivolve to save the day this week?"
Pokemon's anime definitely went to shit over the years, but it's Kanto season wasn't any worse than digimon's File Island arc.

Digimon wasn't mindless for the retarded followers of Pokemon.