Let's be honest here. Style Switching isn't really necessary...

>You're removing function by getting rid of the default shoot button
Than move gunslinger to L1 and have DT on up and SDT on down with the d-pad. And I don't have a problem with Style Switching.
I don't think I know better than Itsuno. Just that I think it's possible to have the styles all accessible without switching between them. And what's the problem with doing directional inputs with the trigger? Looks pretty simple to me, I even do it with Vergil since I moved his summoned swords to R2.
Now this is a shit opinion.

>Now this is a shit opinion.
Well, of course it is. You don't want things to change. You want to keep everything the way that it is and only make slight alterations so that are just barely enough to legally say it's change. That's the definition of progress. Stale? That only happens to everything else that's been the same for 15 years. The mere thought of trying something new probably fills you with disgust, as well it should. Why, if this was some kind of bullshit horseless carriage concept, why, you'd tell them to fuck right off with their 'automobile' fly by night operation and get working on those faster horses.

Thank god people like you are around to keep things from ever progressing beyond a set limit or we'd have to learn a new combo input and that is just unacceptable. Why not just turn it into DmC and get it over with. Right?

>Well, of course it is. You don't want things to change
Autism, you are aware I am the one that suggested a complete control scheme revision for Dante, right? And my suggestion keeps all what you could do from previous games, while yours was removing things entirely. And I'm happy with any change as long as it's an absolute improvement, it's not like I'm holding the devs on gun point over it.

>muh Itsuno can do no wrong
This is what DMC4 should've done for Dante, but instead devs screwed themselves over by introducing a cumbersome system that requires a significant time investment before even being able to properly play with the character. I say screwed themselves over because the said system allows for what appears a greater amount of moves that they can't go back on since that would make all the people that played the game for a decade screech until the sky collapsed.

I say this as someone who's been playing DMC4 for over 6 years and have no problem switching styles on the fly.

The thing your missing is that Style Switching isn't for the pro that's already mastered the game. It's a way to limit the number of buttons the player is hitting at any one time, compartmentalizing the moveset and allowing players to ease their way in one style at a time without overloading them with bullshit. Style Switching is pretty necessary for anyone to start playing these games.

I disagree. If every button did it's own thing, people will understand it quickly. They'll have their "dodge" button, their "block" button and their secondary attack button. Having style switching confuses newcomers or at least I get the feeling that it does.

>This is what DMC4 should've done for Dante
How is spreading all the moves across the controller and removing the styles a better idea?

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It would have better flow which is very important and would make Dante less cumbersome for new players like the post above yours says. Also it prevents arthritis.

>It would have better flow which is very important
You don't need to remove styles for that.

>The fact that you put fucking Trickster on R2 tells me you haven't done that.
Kek but Bayonetta did exactly this and no one complained.
Don't get stuck up on the detail user. The point is giving Dante less complex control scheme while keeping the functionality, with or without styles. Honestly I think DMC2 had the right idea.

>Honestly I think DMC2 had the right idea.
Giving lock-in two functions/buttons wasn't "the right idea" user. It has nice idea here and there, but that's about it. The controls for combat waren't great either.

user it's pretty damn obvious that DMC2's execution was bad, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I've simply meant that DMC2's idea of streamlining controls while keeping or extending functionality was a good one.

>give Nero a punch moveset
Hell yeah, very based

>everything else you said
No thanks, I prefer having a unified control scheme than worsening the control bloat we have at the moment. Nero and Dante feel kinda over-loaded in 5 what with the amount of back-forward inputs and all that just so they could cram more moves in. They're cool moves, but they're not exactly accessible, and you gotta bear in mind that as much as you wanna make hardcore fans satisfied, it has to remain viable for newcomers too.

>DMC2's idea of streamlining controls
2 didn't streamline much other than give a dodge button. And it wasn't even a revolutionary idea. The Jump to dodge the series went with feels better for me and fits the playstyle they're going with.

>I prefer having a unified control scheme than worsening the control bloat we have at the moment
How will any of what I said make the characters more bloated than how they are now? And I think my suggestion is very welcoming for newcomers. V getting more summons, and Nero getting Breakers as enemy drops aren't bad either.

>V and Nero stuff
Sorry, skimmed that, forgot it was there.

>control bloat
Look, you're taking four styles that used to be controlled via a single button and the D-pad to modify what the button did, and then flattening it out across four other buttons. Four other buttons that could be (and already are) used for other things. We really don't need more moves that are scattered across the face of the controller like what you suggested, whereas having a single button that changes function based on style is simple, effective and efficient use of controller space.

>Four other buttons that could be (and already are) used for other things
I am aware of that. And I assume that these buttons would continue to do what they always did. And so I suggested to move some things around and make the styles accessible in faster way without getting rid of anything.
>We really don't need more moves that are scattered across the face of the controller
Most games have dodge and block as dedicated buttons and I doubt they're more confusing to use than style switching. I get what you're saying, but I think my point still stands that Style switching could go away without losing much functions.

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Then it would seem we are at an impasse my friend, I respect your opinion but disagree. The issue with dedicated dodge and block buttons in many cases isn't that they add to the complexity, but rather they take away from the depth available. Sorry if it seems like I'm going round in circles or contradicting myself, that would be because I'm not thinking everything through, I'm just responding with what comes to mind, but something I really like about DMC is that it utilises simple controls to do some really interesting and "deep" things. It's a strange balance and I wouldn't be able to figure it out for myself if I hadn't seen how DMC controls were already handled.

Look basically what I'm saying is if it aint broke don't fix it

Also your webm doesn't really help your point, FFXV (assuming that's what the game on the left is) always struck me as a boring and disengaged game from the gameplay side, so showing precisely how little is going on on the player's end in contrast to how involved DMC4 is, really only just makes me wanna go play DMC

>Then it would seem we are at an impasse my friend
That's okay, I just wanted to talk with someone of these ideas I have and what they may think of them
>The issue with dedicated dodge and block buttons in many cases isn't that they add to the complexity
it won't lose any complexity because these "dodge" and "block" buttons will just work like the styles did. I assume you saw the third post in this thread. And the webm is unrelated to our conversation, I just wanted to post something other than walls of texts.

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When's SE coming out?

Sure, sure

>third post
Yeah that's what I've been keeping in mind, and honestly man I really don't like the idea of that layout. It's just, I really don't know how to put it. Needless? The only thing I really agreed with was absorbing Gunslinger into the base moveset, but even that doesn't really work cause then how do you do moves like Rainstorm?

>webm
Ah right right, I saw the emphasis on the way the controls were being used and thought you were trying to make a connection there

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>It's just, I really don't know how to put it. Needless?
It's a more faster way to execute moves, or at least I think so. But you're right that the layout isn't all that great. And many will need to get used to it.
>but even that doesn't really work cause then how do you do moves like Rainstorm?
Directional air inputs, they could make it a circular input or a back and fourth one.

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2 hours

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>directional, circular inputs, etc etc etc
That's exactly the kind of bloat I wanna avoid though, I feel like I mentioned that in my very first reply to the thread. Dante and Nero feel bogged down enough already with inputs like that, I really don't think we need any more of them.

solid kek

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>wah, I have to put effort into pulling off the awesome stuff I see in the internet videos
git gud

>That's exactly the kind of bloat I wanna avoid though
We can still have gunslinger as a dedicated button if that's what you'd prefer. And having many buttons with directional inputs isn't a bad thing, nor do I think will make it much more bloated. Nero's blue rose could use some directional inputs since all it does is shoot and shoot harder. RQ isn't that complex to use in my opinion and his Breakers are very simple. Dante is bloated, but that has to do with how many moves he has and not how his controls are layed out.

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If claw gripping is needed to efficiently play then there's a control scheme issue.

What does that have to do with my suggestions or of giving styles dedicated buttons? It certainly won't make combos easier to do, just faster. And I'm fine with style switching just saying there are alternatives to it (that I find better) that people seem to ignore.

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>another retard who thinks he knows better than Itsuno
Itsuno admits he makes mistakes. Don't worship devs.