Why don't CT only fanboys ever have actual arguments as to CC being bad...

Your post is shit but this bothered me the most

>while Trigger looks considerably worse than FFVI. Cross wins.

Nothing in FF6 looks as good as Lavos.

>when you have glenn and he gets dual einlanzers
shit was kino, i love CT and CC

>Chrono Cross's story is mature and subtle
PFFFT AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Prove it wrong.

CT was literally a bunch of children traipsing almost carelessly through time "trying to put things right" but never realizing that they might be causing inadvertent damage in other ways. CC explored this quite a bit. It also showed just how 4D chess cunning the Lavos entity was, leveraging time and space and dimensions to keep its existence assured, despite the efforts of some brats from the Guardia suburbs.

Basically, CT is for manbabies that never grew up, ands CC is for sophisticated, mature gamers like myself :^)

you had this thread earlier today
arch.b4k.co/v/thread/477696739

Kid

Both games are awful so the CT fanboy is kinda right.

why do console peasents always demand remasters of games that dont need them? Any remaster is just going to be worse than the original anyway, just look at the Steam port

This is why I like CT as a lead into CC. Anyone that says "CC is a good game just not a good sequel!!!1" is a retard. It is a very good sequel and maybe the most daring of them. So many badly written movies (Avengers) and TV shows use alternate dimensions so frivolously for "COOOOOL" moments, rather than something that could actually be destructive.

Forgot to note: There's already a HUGE example of the CT kids making things a thousand times worse throughout time before they "finally defeated" Lavos: The Black Omen. Also the sacking of Guardia by Porre would not have happened if not for the domino effect of the clumsy faggotry the CT kids got up to, since Dalton would have never arrived in Porre and turned it into a military juggernaut almost overnight with his knowledge. Seriously fuck Crono and the rest of those little shits.

Like CT only fans in general, it's manchild syndrome in trying to recapture their childhood

Good intentions pave the way to hell, friend. There was no malice in what they did.

They do. You just choose to ignore them because they put down your favorite game. The complaints without focusing on the treatment of the CT story and characters are typically:
>Story is a hot convoluted mess.
>Main story and subplots were written independently of each other by completely different groups, so they had trouble meshing the two together and it shows.
>A huge cast of characters without a single interesting one in the roster
>So many characters they barely have time to focus on fleshing out the stories for more than 2/3rds of them
>Each one was supposed to have a unique ending and sidequest, then they ran out of time and money so they removed 16 characters and roughly 90% of the character's endings and quests.
>kids_first_gay_furry_boner.exe
>obnoxious amount of focus on Kato's donut steel waifu, who nobody but him gave two shits about in Radical Dreamers
>Serge is a fag with a horrible sense of style and a dumb weapon.
>Battle system removed or diminished several unique features of the previous game and added ones that were overly-complicated without being particularly interesting or useful

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But it's not a sequel to CT
>"We didn't want to directly extend Chrono Trigger into a sequel, but create a new Chrono with links to the original." - Masato Kato
>"Chrono Cross is not a sequel to Chrono Trigger" - Hiromichi Tanaka

>>Story is a hot convoluted mess.

Considering you're the type that doesn't get a story unless it's "LETS STOP THE BAD GUYS!!1" then that's understandable you don't get it

>>Main story and subplots were written independently of each other by completely different groups, so they had trouble meshing the two together and it shows.

If you've ever read a book, you'd know not all subplots come back and are resolved.

>>A huge cast of characters without a single interesting one in the roster

Grobyc

>>Each one was supposed to have a unique ending and sidequest, then they ran out of time and money so they removed 16 characters and roughly 90% of the character's endings and quests.

CT doesn't have character specific endings either

>>kids_first_gay_furry_boner.exe
>>obnoxious amount of focus on Kato's donut steel waifu, who nobody but him gave two shits about in Radical Dreamers
>>Serge is a fag with a horrible sense of style and a dumb weapon.

zzzzz. I don't like Cloud crossdressing in FF7 either, but that's not an argument as to why FF7 would be a bad game.

>These half-assed dismissals
Thanks for proving my point, faggot. If you're not going to put any effort into your shitposting don't even bother.

You can like it all you want, but CC is notoriously over-worked and unfinished. If Kato had focused on writing a concise and structured plot instead of the pretentious, waifu pandering he ended up shitting out maybe the series wouldn't have died it.

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Your autism for "what could have been" is overwhelming. Xenogears isn't complete either, but it's still a good game. Get over yourself.

And the reason Square can't make another Chrono game is to do with Square themselves and things like Spirits Within or vanilla FF14 or the canceled DLC plan for FF15.

I heard the ds port was bad for some reason

The translation is different. Very different. Honestly I prefer the SNES Woolsey script, but the DS port is still fantastic otherwise and I'm glad it didn't get a GBA port like the FFs

I used to love Chrono Cross when I was 16 but looking back on it, while it's absolutely phenomenal graphic wise, music wise etc, etc, it's needlessly convoluted.

Seriously, read the actual story. It's a huge mess and it's not even well-told, it basically let you in the dark for goddamn long before hitting you with massive "twists" that aren't since they're asspulls you can't actuall guess.

And I have to add I loved that game to death and I have really good memories of it. The first playthrough was the right one, I won't replay it because I know I'm gonna be disappointed

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Oh and let's not talk about the "philosophy" behind Chrono Cross.
There's none besides some some very thin environmental topic and time travel/dimension hoping isn't actually treated in a significant way...
Basically Balthasar planned everything, The only thing the Chrono cast fucked up was destroying the old 2300 A.D future (boohoo Johnny and his robot gang are dead) but the dead sea is a dead end, story-wise and "helping" schala Merge with Lavos
Everything else? Balthasar aka Kato because let's be honest, he had to invent an epic 4D chess mastermind to hold his story together

PS :
Kid was the closest thing I had to an unironic waifu. Her radical dreamers version is best

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>Falling for CT-only fan brainwashing

Yikes

Thought I wouldn't like it as an adult because I thought I also moved past JRPGs as a genre, but I liked it even more.

I'm focusing on what happened. A drudging slog of a story that grasped desperately for depth but failed miserably. The only people who bought Kato's 2deep4u bullshit were kids like you who played it as their first JRPG. Everyone else saw it exactly for what it was, a boring trash pile of poorly executed ideas.

You started your thread complaining that CT fans can't make actual arguments against this game without resorting to complaining about the treatment of the CT characters, yet you yourself cannot articulately defend CC when its glaring shortcomings are scrutinized. You deflect and blindly dismiss them like a child plugging his ears and screaming.

You're just like every other twinging faggot on this board defending your first JRPG crush. You're no better or worse than anyone else. Go fuck yourself, you loathsome little weeb fanboy faglette

>CT doesn't have character specific endings either

End game side quests are basically that.

>CT-brainwashing.
Nope. Just reading books, movies and reading actual philosophy besides "If you stares at the flame, the flame stares back at you" epic quote

It's fine if you like it even more, but I played CC for the mystery story. Now that I know all the "twists", the pretentious 1st-year-philosophy student is just jarring.
I won't replay CT either mind you... "Deep Plot" JRPGs only really work if you're an adolescent OR if you play them for the 1st or 2nd time.

They're great trips, but like all great things, they don't last.

>as their first JRPG.

My first JRPGs were on the SNES. I love CT but it's not particularly deep, storywise - and a lot of the more complicated games in the genre were Japan only.

>yet you yourself cannot articulately defend CC when its glaring shortcomings are scrutinized

Your "shortcomings" are just your crybaby crying that's it's not the same, not actual facts or reasons as to why CC isn't good.

I see your point, but you're one of those fags who thinks games can't tell good stories in general. I bet you think Planescape Torment is badly written too

The idea of the events of the previous game having negative consequences in the sequel is a great idea in theory. Chrono Cross just fails to execute on this in any real way. Why Trigger is a masterpiece and Cross is irrelevant is because trigger was well focused, had excellent pacing and knew exactly what it wanted to be. Cross was just a clusterfuck of a bunch of ideas crammed into one game that they couldn't string together cohesively. Without the soundtrack, I doubt cross would even be brought up these days.

>Why Trigger is a masterpiece

Nostalgia. Hell, even people pretend the bad Final Fantasies (1-4, 7 and 8) are "classics" or "masterpieces" of the genre when they're anything but.

>Chrono Cross isn't a good story user.
You want a good story?

Dragon quest V
It has more humanity and emotion than Chrono Cross and it actually uses its status as a video game to tell its story...
Or do you seriously consider than 3 kids, at the very end of the game... Telling you EVERYTHING through a wall-of-text to hastily make sure the plot makes sense, is good story telling?

Like I told you. I still love the memories I have of Chrono cross, but come on lol

Trigger is a masterpiece because it is one of the few games that can be called flawless-- as in a game without flaw. The music, the story, the gameplay, the pacing, the side content that is just enough without losing focus or narrative. Innovative for it's time as far as RPGs go, it holds up even to this day which is something very few games can boast from that era.

>I love CT but it's not particularly deep, storywise
I thought the whole point of this thread was NOT to talk about CT
>not actual facts or reasons as to why CC isn't good.
Every single one of my points was a fact. Some were subjective, others (like the FACT the story writing teams had no connection with each other and had no idea what the other was doing and then had to hamfist the two together, and the massive amount of incomplete and cut content due to poorly utilizing their resources) were 100% objective. The were all absolute FACTS.

Been a fan of both games for ages and I beat Chrono trigger literally once a year for the past 4 to 5 years. While I've only beat Chrono cross about 3 or 4 times.

I've completed both games to the max of what is possible.

The biggest issues with Chrono Cross that make is more of a chore to play.

>Characters are all generic as fuck
They have no personality beyond a generated accent most of the time. A far cry from the charismatic crew of trigger. Even Crono a silent protagonist shows more personality than his counter part Serge through use of victory poses, dance moves, actions he is wiling to do and his over all dressing style.

You can feel Crono he's a guy who likes to have fun and dedicates most of his life training before the events of the game even start. He his dressed in work out gear from the very start,

Serge on the other hand. All we get from him is that he likes girls and row boats?

He does nothing to show any type of personality traits even subtly

You see, THIS is why nobody played Chrono Cross. It’s fanbase is full of bitter cunts who actively attack Chrono Trigger fans just because CT got popular and CC didn’t.

I mean, shitting on people who cared about the characters? In Chrono Trigger, a game with one of the greatest JRPG casts ever? Should I take this to mean Cross has shitty characters, because Crossfags don’t care about those things? Maybe if you talked about the positives of Cross, instead of trying to drag down Trigger as being a shittier game, people might be more willing to try the game out.

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Also...
Have noticed how both Zero Escape and Chrono Cross (and Lost) have time travel/Dimensions plot devices?
That's how you recognize hack writing.

These guys think of the twist first
"X is actually Y"
And then they write the story in order to "mindfuck" the player/viewer with this revelation... That"s why it's so thin, so devoid of anything outside of the "BIG REVELATIONS" moments.

Remove Deep Sea/Chronopolis from CC... What else do you have?

>Dragon quest V

Japanese only, but nice try. Like I said, we didn't get a lot of complicated JRPGs on the SNES.

>Maybe if you talked about the positives of Cross, instead of trying to drag down Trigger as being a shittier game, people might be more willing to try the game out.
Excellent point. I never hear what CC fans actually like about CC, just how CT fans are stupid for not liking it,

ct fanboy here. chrono cross is great and a worthy game in its own right. there is no divide between "ct fanboys" and "cc fanboys." stop trying to stir shit and cause infighting for no reason you retarded gamer autist faggot

if you seriously think this you must have the analytical skills of a teenager and the depth of a fucking bag of doritos, nothing about chrono cross was obtuse or attempting to be something it wasn't. the story is laid bare for anyone to grasp it as you play the game. you're just dumb.

I think I said so earlier, but it continues the legacy of what I liked in CT with alternate endings, multiple characters, etc

I love the sea foam beach theme. The swampy, sweaty levels. The music and FMVs are great. I love that it isn't trying to be a rehash of CT and does its own thing. So many CT only fanboys want the Advent Children of the franchise, and in my opinion, fuck you - Advent Children is one of the worst things ever made.

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>Nostalgiafagging

So you're finally admiting you have no objectivity?
DQ V had a DS remake and a port on the IOS you can play it in english (or french, or whatever) now...
And like I told you "complicated JRPGs" only work when you're an adolescent and it's the first time you see their usual tropes.

I can see that CC tried to appeal to a growing fanbase by being "DEEP" and "PROFUND" but now that dust has settled and you're (I hope) and adult, you can see that it failed...
It failed gloriously, but it failed. There's nothing to keep from the story besides "don't kill nature" and "thanks for being born, (you), the player!"

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I love Chrono Cross but c'mon man, there are a lot of ties and references that are really hard to grasp if you don't have some kind of reference. On top of that, plenty of very important things are easily missed or mentioned in an extremely limited capacity. I do think Cross has a really great story especially considering the competition on PSX, but it would have benefitted from less text dumps.

>Why don't CT only fanboys ever have actual arguments as to CC being bad?
what makes you think i've given enough attention to a shovelware sequel where i've ever talked about it before replying to you right now

You're bringing up a game we didn't get in the west. I'm talking from the north american perspective.

Maybe DQV is a good game, but in the legacy of JRPGs of when they were important (SNES, PS1), it means nothing.

You are so dumb. So very very dumb

>I'm talking from the north american perspective.
Bruh.
It's been 20 years. People have internet. People can emulate games. People can play translated versions.
If we use your dumb argument, Earthbound is a shit JRPG because it flopped and we never got the sequel nor the first game.

Sadly for you, now pretty much everybody knows that MOTHER is a gem of videogame storytelling while Chrono Cross is just known as the dumb convoluted mess people felt it was...

And sorry, even "back then" CC wasn't particularly a hit. It was released as the PSX was dying, the CT crowd was pissed (for dumb reasons). The only significant JRPGs of that time were the final fantasies, especially the 7 entry.
Guess what? It's still very fun to play with a better story than chrono cross.

It is STILL a good game, but praising its story? L O L

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>Pretty game
>Great music
>Nice character designs
>Impressive use of 3D for a PS1 game
>Euphoric sound design
>Beautiful FMVS
>Interesting narrative
>Terrible substance to carry it all
>Too many characters
>Confusing plot progression points
>Slow combat
>No tech moves

Its an amazing flash of sparks that failed to display their capacity to explode as cohesive fireworks
At least those fireworks sound and look nice while they lasted though.

>that massive wall of text on the beach right before the final battle
What a fucking travesty lmao.

Should have combined the visuals of CC with the plot of Xenogears.

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cc had dumb as shit characters
i loved the evolving pokemon lab experiment and the mushroom guy and the literal alien and the talking dog and the giant voodoo doll and the robot assassin and the clown skeleton and the vegetable with hair

How to fix CC :
Remove everyone but

Kid
Harle
Lynx
Glenn
Leena
Karsh
That Porre guy
Fargo
Basically anyone from the Viper mansion

Make Guile actually Magus
Make the porre presence in El Nido a real force to reckoned with
Have more branching paths besides three at the beginning (like saving Harle? When she asks you if you'd sacrifice the world for her)
Make them actually influencate the ending you get
Remove the dragon crests filler quest
Give the dead sea a bigger role
Don't reveal 50% of your plot at the very end of the game with 3 NPCs

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