So I am just renting the games I "buy" ? >steam logic >inb4 "it's a license"
When using Netflix or Spotify, you basically pay a rent each month so it makes perfect sense. It's like renting an apartment : you pay for the time you actually use the place.
When you buy something, you become the owner of the product. It's that simple. It's YOURS. And since it's YOURS, you can actually give it or resell it.
With Steam, you neither buy or rent : everything you "buy" on Steam, Steam still owns it, once and for all. It's not a rent, because you pay it the game once and can't opt out. If you rent a place, you don't own the place, but you can relocate anytime. Steam doesn't allow it.
Steam is basically a hostage-taking business.
Fortunately new competitors will come (like Robot Cache) that will change this nonsense.
Also, Steam has been sentenced in some countries in the past years because of its policy, like in Australia or France. Right now it the European Union is not working on this issue, mostly because they are currently in the process of building the new commission and deal with this brexshit, but besides the risk for Valve to get banhammered if not complying to EU laws*, if nothing changes, new competitors will go their own way and actually allow reselling videogames and Steam if it wants to survive, will have no choice but to either do the same or become a rental type of business like Netflix and Spotify.
(*just as a note, Margrethe Vestager [the woman who forced Apple to give 13 billions yuros back to Ireland and fined Google to 5 billions yuros will keep her job and get additional bonus powers in the new EU commission team which is now even more willingly to play on hard-mode as they are real EU-die-hard fans. But anyway at the end it's not just an issue for people living within the EU, this Steam's Scam (SS) is an issue for all gamers, in the U.S., in Europe and in every country Valve is abusing its customers.
Leo Reed
don't buy then, just fucking pirate it
Charles Edwards
cuck
Juan Evans
>buy book >book deteriorates or pages fall off >have to buy new one to replace it
>buy computer >same shit
>buy house >millions in expenses
>buy videogame on steam >can redownload the software as many times as you wish for no extra fees, has cloud saves to keep your progress safe and has a whole suite of features, you just can't resell it
Josiah Bennett
we live in a capitalism don't like it, don't buy it
Nathan Ross
There's no literally to sell a game online without it being a license. You can't expect to get the rights to the IP, or the assets/code used in the game. So obviously you aren't buying the game. So what do you consider the product you're buying? It can only be considered a license to use the software you paid for. It's painfully simple yet you dumbasses take that to mean "HURR STEAMS GONNA TAKE MY GAMES BACK DURR." Guess what, when you buy a book or a movie digitally, you can't resell that either.
William Foster
>he literally NEVER read the TOS he agreed to of any physical games he bought in the last 30 years retard
Henry Jenkins
>Yea Forums on piracy: digital goods don't follow the same rules as physical goods so piracy isn't theft ;) >Yea Forums on being banned from multiplayer games: digital spaces don't follow the same rules as physical spaces so I shouldn't get kicked from a server for being a nuisance the same way I can get kicked from a venue or other public space for being a nuisance ;) >Yea Forums on being able to resell digital goods: BUT I CAN RESELL BOOK WHY I CAN'T RESELL ZEROS AND ONES MOOOOOOOOOOM
I can’t wait for Based Tim to dab all over fatass valve by implementing key resells on EGS
Aaron Gray
this reads like it was written by a complete newfag
Jaxon Kelly
>Buying games
loving every laugh
Carter Morris
At least its not another wojack. The image tho? I guess he ripped it from some autist run subreddit.
Kevin Ward
It's more about copying shit isn't theft. If you could copy someone's bread it wouldn't be same crime as stealing.
Easton Martinez
What if I accept the ability to only download it once, with no backups.
Do I now own it?
Jeremiah Rodriguez
we're not your army faggot get banned
Jack Rivera
If it installs offline from the file you got, yes.
Sebastian Butler
imagine being poor lmao
Jacob Johnson
if you don't have a giant mansion worth 4 billion you are poor desu
James Carter
>sells steam account this kills the epicshills
Jayden Turner
>So I am just renting the games I "buy" ? Congratulations, it took you years, but you've finally figured out what DRM and launchers really are. It's not just Steam btw.
>Fortunately new competitors will come (like Robot Cache) that will change this nonsense. Oh, it's a shill thread.
Sebastian Ortiz
*Steam stops supporting your OS* psssh... nothing personal kid
Evan Ramirez
>shill thread sage, report and hide
Henry Williams
>can't resell digital games on any platform >hurrr this is steam problem! really makes you think
Jason Morales
What the fuck would you own? Seriously, tell me specifically what you would gain from this transaction.
Would you get the source code to the game? That would make no sense. Would you be getting the art and assets used in the game? Doesn't make sense either. The IP of the game's characters and setting? Still not what you get when you buy a game.
You can't say that you own the program now, because that would imply you now own all of that stuff. The only thing you're getting is the legal right to use the software. Which is the same thing a disk accomplished, the only difference is the physical disk. You can still sell your hard drive after you buy a game.
Nathan Johnson
>uses linux/mac no one cares
Luke Sanders
>steamcels are so entitled! consumers aren't owed shit! >steamkids are so weak, letting steam walk all over them!
So are you in favor of consumer rights, or against them?
>buy online multiplayer videogame 1.0 >company release videogame 2.0 >most players switch to videogame 2.0 >decide to switch as well to videogame 2.0 to keep playing with many players >can't resell videogame 1.0 to someone who still want to play it because videogame 1.0 hostage of steam >the person who wants to play videogame 1.0 have to pay full price to play instead of buying from you for less >you can't partly pay videogame 2.0 with the money you would have earned from selling videogame 1.0 >steam is holding your money locked up in its own bank account >steam is literally stealing money from you
I was thinking more of the fact that Steam doesn't work on XP and will inevitably stop working on Win 7. Before you go "JUST UPGRADE UR OS" I would also like to point out that W10 compatibility with older games can be very hit or miss.
Isaiah Lopez
>Robot Cache Literally who
Caleb Baker
>never had the money >somehow stolen i hope you shills get permabanned OP
Joshua Young
>You can still sell your hard drive after you buy a game. that wouldn't work with steam.
Grayson Torres
I think you fail to understand that computer games are actually really good and timeless. Unlike console games, where you play them for 10 hours before reselling them or shelving them, PC games are played over many decades for hundreds of hours. In my 25 years of PC gaming, I have never once resold any of my games or felt like doing so.
Carson Morgan
>>most players switch to video game 2.0 Then why the fuck would this stupid faggot in your retarded hypothetical situation want to play the first multiplayer game if there are less people playing it? Also, are you literally a child with no other source of income? $60 for a new game is nothing. It's not Steam's fault that a sequel was released. Maybe don't buy games at all if your purchase is invalidated by a fucking sequel getting released.
Liam Perez
that things inevitably become more and more likely to be unavailable the older they get is sadly just a fact of life.
Jacob Martin
This thread shit, let's talk about Terraria. What's your: >favourite weapon >favourite armour set >favourite boss >favourite class
Levi Butler
>Vortex Beater >Chlorophyte ranged set >Spoopytron Prime >Ranged, of course
The best part is that the GOG version satisfies what OP wants: the ability to own your game without steam getting their greedy mitts all over it. AND as of a month ago, the GOG version now officially has mod support.
Levi Howard
is this an EGS shill trying to smear campaign on steam?
Never played it because it looks like some lazy indie pixelshit. Shoud I give it a try?
Owen Bennett
ok but how do you resell a digital game?
Camden Hernandez
Yeah, it's really good and you can get a lot of playtime out of it. I have about 300 or so hours.
Also has a thriving modding scene and it's get a major update soon
Anthony Russell
>buy brand new smartphone >lots of people do as well >still some people either coz poor or any other reason want previous version of the smartphone boy you understand not everyone wants to play fornite as you do because they still prefer to play older games because they think they are better ?
Are you aware that many people still play CS 1.6 or CS:Source instead of CS:GO because they don't like CS:GO?
>Books last hundreds of years, stop treating them like toilet paper
>The computer regardless of age, and devaluation as it gets older still has SOME worth. The same as any expensive game that gets older still has SOME worth
>Houses appreciate fuck off neet.
Loose weight Gabe.
Blake Morgan
>OP says its a steam only problem while conveniently forgetting every other digital game store is the same i'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.
Luke Perez
>buying online multiplayer games You fucking idiot
Cant you trade steam games for others between accounts and with other people? What the fuck is the problem?
Anthony Fisher
steamfags fucking owned
Epic wins again
Jacob Flores
>buy a copy of any software >can't resell it
this isn't specific to video games, let alone a Valve/Steam problem.
Ryder Miller
>using Counter Strike as an example Counter Strike Source is $10 right now. Are you that fucking poor that you can't afford a measly $10? How about you get a job instead so you can afford your gaming hobby.
Carson Lopez
>buy cards for collectible cardgame set Seven >company release collectible cardgame set Eight >most people switch to collectible cardgame set Eight >decide to switch as well >can't resell collectible cardgame set Seven because set Seven is a hostage of card game company and so forth, culminating with >card game company literally stealing your money from you
sounds silly, doesn't it? and it's all because the line >can't resell should have a different ending, which is that thERE ARE NO BUYERS WHO'D BUY A PAST VERSION OF SOMETHING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN IMPROVED ON STEAM IS SAVING YOU FUCKBOYS FROM YOUR OWN STUPIDITY, BUT NOOO YOU DARE TO BE EVEN STUPIDER!! FUCK YOU, YOU PATHETIC SHIT BRAINED IDIOT; YOU WILL APPRECIATE OUR LORD AND SAVIOR GABEN WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.
>lazy pixelshit >devs have been supporting the game with massive free updates for almost a decade You're a fucking retard
Sebastian Howard
>buying games ever i found your problem
Nathan Clark
>steam is the only digital store front
Christian Brown
>mad that xp isn't supported shut the FUCK UP IT'S BEEN ALMOST TWO DECADES
Xavier Lee
Don't worry about my income, I could buy you 1 million copies of any videogame you want, my bank account wouldn't even notice the difference.
>"$60 for a new game is nothing" >$60 is nothing Great for you but you know there are actually people in this world and even in the US to whom $60 is a damn lot of money
Thing is, not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth like you and know the value of money. You know, it's about what is just and fair and what isn't.
Brayden Jackson
Why can't I sell or give away the license?
Lincoln Fisher
I love how you completely evaded the point that nobody would actually want to buy a previous version of a multiplayer when the new version becomes popular (the point your shitpost in the OP hinges on) in the first place, much less from someone else >Great for you but you know there are actually people in this world and even in the US to whom $60 is a damn lot of money That's adorable, considering that EGS dumps transaction fees on the customer in these places not USA, which actually increases the cost of their products
Connor Taylor
>Book Resell an ebook >Computer Resell a virtual machine >House I don't fucking know resell a house you "made" in the Sims or something.
Point is these things aren't sold again because they're essentially worthless.
All of these things and video games are infinitely redistributable by the very nature of being digital and inherently devalued by their non-scarcity. Stop buying things that have no value or quantity and just pirate.
Alexander Foster
Because you've used it >Buy game >Finish it >Expect full refund >WTF WHY WONT THEY GIVE MY MONEY BACK STEAM IS STEALING MY MONEY AND HOLDING MY GAMES HOSTAGE!!! And btw, you CAN trade licenses-you can exchange games between accounts, so it's not like your argument ever had any merit to it in the first place
Isaiah Young
10 points have been added to your social credit score
Dominic Gutierrez
10 points have been added to your social credit score
Gabriel Torres
>When using Netflix or Spotify, you basically pay a rent each month so it makes perfect sense
I get what you're saying but I'll never "rent" on netflix because they're too cheap to actually license shows and instead pander to lowest common denominator
why, yes, I would love to watch friends for the 40th time in the row despite there being a multitude of other shows out there
Why yes, spotify I can't watch to replay the same Cardi B album for thee 100th time even though she gets airplay all the time on the radio.
Why can't you actually reach out and license other shows, why can't you grab some underground show.
What sounds better
"Netflix renewed The Office...again!!!"
or
"Netflix is reviving an obscure show" like they did with invader zim/Rocco
fuck streaming and fuck licensing
Zachary Jackson
i wish is still was two decades ago but now
Sebastian Parker
Was this made by a poorfag that he wants to refund all his games after he's done with them?
Eli Wright
It's just a butthurt chink. He's mad because of all the steam games being advertised on TGS, while Shenmue 3 got jack shit
Colton Price
damn, Yea Forums looks like that now? hummana hummana hummana BONER
Hudson Sanchez
I never said anything about getting a refund from Steam. You're being dishonest. You can only trade "extra copies" to another account. I can't give away a game I'm not going to play anymore to a friend the way I could with a physical copy.
Liam Ramirez
As true as it might be, it doesn't mean you should thus not address the issue about a specific software. This is a board dedicated to videogames, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to specifically talk about Steam which has become almost a monopoly on gaming on PC/Mac. And the bigger a company is, the more the issues become noticeable to the consumers.
Benjamin Bailey
Why are americans so afraid of basic customer rights?
Then let's call it a rent you only have to pay once.
Angel Barnes
Yeah, cute. Bring Uplay, EGS, GOG and Origin into the discussion as well, for the sake of complete coverage, removal of bias and to show that you are not a butthurt chink
Hunter Russell
you can't even live in your cardbox houses rentfree
Elijah Rivera
They treat big companies like apple or mc donalds as friends, like the good goys they are.
Eli Cooper
It's a unique game but it isn't for everyone. If you decide to give it a try then play at least until the first boss.
Aaron Brown
Ever heard of Refunds?
Tyler Fisher
>Steam which has become almost a monopoly on gaming on PC/Mac No it hasnt
Cameron White
i can't believe euroanon's head is made of cardboard sorry for your illness
Grayson Myers
not op but refunds aren't a valid resell option it's like equating refunds to being a demo service
Jason Cooper
Epic sure is mad they can't poach games off of the upcoming section anymore.
Asher Russell
Well that's a pretty specific thing to complain about, but fair point, still don't care tho
Matthew Taylor
just ask for a refund you tard
Dylan Fisher
you can always not buy the product
Easton Lopez
*ahem* 经济低迷Economy in the doldrums比索十多年来一直是最弱的The peso is weakest in over a decade 价格上涨10倍prices increased 10x 远藤仍然像以往一样广泛实践 Endo still as widely practiced as ever 中国继续占领南沙群岛,尊重菲律宾或“联合国海洋法公约”的裁决China continues to take territory in the Spratlys, zero respect for the Philippines or UNCLOS ruling共产党人仍然活跃,并没有结束反叛的迹象 Communists still active and no sign of ending rebellion 穆斯林极端分子占领城市三个月Muslim extremists occupy city for three months 成千上万的EJKThousands of EJKs 邓卡夏的延伸Extention of the Dengvaxia Anti Vaccine麻疹爆发歇斯底里症 Anti Vaccine Measles outbreak hysteria 疫苗接种恐吓导致实际的大规模死亡Vaccination scare that leads to actual mass death 像Romualdez这样的Cronnies偷走了yolanda基金 Cronnies like the Romualdez stole yolanda funds PNP的可信度始终较低 Credibility of PNP at all time low 在NCR交通像往常一样残暴Traffic in NCR as atrocious as ever 随着援助受到威胁,与美国和西方的关系始终处于低谷Relations with the US and the West at all time low, with aid being threatened 海关像往常一样无可救药地腐败Customs as hopelessly corrupt as it ever been 3D渲染基础设施承诺 3D rendering infra structure promises.债务现在价值数万亿 Debts are now worth trillions 低级寡头级“联邦主义”“将使我们回归sleazy oligarch tier ""federalism"" that will set us back博拉凯康复史诗失败 boracay rehab epic fail 护照数据泄露Passport data breach马尼拉湾宣传特技清洁 Manila bay publicity stunt cleaning 中国毒枭集团的儿子Chinese druglord syndicate son假新闻传播妓女女儿 Fake news spreading whore daughter Dutertard / Marcostard facebook假新闻 Dutertard/Marcostard facebook fake newspurge
Jordan Wright
As fellow steam cuck, let not mince words. Steam have big monopoly for many year. it great finally compete in the market so Steam improve.
Luke Turner
I think EGS is only now realizing that a sword was hanging over their head by a hair all this time while they thought they were winning, and now they're REEEEEE'ing and shitting their pants hard
Nathaniel Hill
you should actually look up what monopoly means before making a fool of yourself
>as a fellow steam cuck you're way too obvious chinkshill
Cameron Mitchell
reselling a digital product doesn't work like reselling an actual, physical product. although there are things that are wrong with the system, you're just plain dumb. At best, you should be able to gift games on your library. for those that are drm free, what would prevent you from copying it and selling it then? Nothing, that's what. Nothing prevents you from buying a game on gog, putting it on a usb key, and then selling it to someone. But that's a crime.
Brody Howard
If you think you can run a better business that gives customers what they want more than Steam you should pursue it. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is then it looks like you don't actually believe what you're saying is worth the trouble.
Heads up. Nobody else thinks it's worth the trouble either.
Well, yes. That's just how it is now and it will only get worse from here. Companies are doing everything they can to make sure you don't own shit. They'll be jumping for joy on the off chance Stadia succeeds.
Daniel Williams
based 54 year old women on facebook comback
Luke Williams
I know you are naught but a baiting nigger, but I will at least humor you. If you truly wish to resell your video game collection you can just sell your account.
Chase White
>gee i wonder who made this thread
Ethan Cook
What feature is steam missing exactly? Even if the 30% cut is too big for some devs the games are obviously still profitable, otherwise we wouldn't be getting more and more PC ports on steam every year. The sales are "getting worse" just because the people already bought most of the worthwhile older games that go on sale for a couple $, so they will just ignore them when they go on sale again. Valve might be horrible developers, but steam is just fine for the users, or at least much better than any of the alternatives.
Charles Green
>facts make you a steam shill lmao okay chang >shill platform nonstop, """"suprised"""" when people assume someone being assblasted is you thanks
Charles Rivera
Go ahead, see if you can convince developers and publishers to sell their games on a platform where anybody can easily resell them at any time and the creator gets dick fuckall for it.
Samuel Gomez
>lmao okay chang Sorry you buy shitty books.
Brody Myers
Seething
Ryan Walker
>>devs have been supporting the game with massive free updates for almost a decade
user, you missed >Never played it
Josiah Johnson
Nice broken English, chink
Bentley Bell
There are games on steam without DRM and can run without steam even being opened.
Kayden Rivera
>buy toys on Earth >die >don't get to bring the toys I won on Earth into Hell
WTF SATAN!?!? I should be able to keep all the shit I own and take it with me to the lake of fire!?!?
Sue Hell for lack of ownership laws.
Chase Nguyen
>just pirate can you pirate your grandma?
just a joke otherwise: >video games are infinitely redistributable technically, yep, but we are not living in a virtual world like the Sims and from just an observation of reality, you see that not everyone is playing every video game for free, because companies (rightfully) do what's necessary to avoid piracy (you may find a way to pirate it but most of the times these days, you would spend more money in time spent to get it free than actually simply spending money legally to get it. piracy may still work fine with some digital products but nowadays, even though I don't really play much myself to know the exact situation, i'm confident to say that video games to play online ain't part of these digital products. in anyway, it's not about the video games themselves, piracy isn't the issue here but Steam as a platform that precisely make it "impossible" (in legal terms) for people to make any simple exchanges/transactions, which basically are one of basic rights of any individual (selling something you have previously bought). of course there are legal limitations justified by safety concerns but video games, as far as I know, are not nuclear missiles.
Carter Jenkins
What the fuck are you referring to? Because globally that is entirely false, and speaking specifically of America, it hasn't been truly capiatlistic since the inception of the federal reserve; and it sure as hell isn't now, when lobbying groups can just throw some money at politicians to get away with manipulating various sectors of the economy to their benefit.
Matthew Nelson
Don't you mean every online store that offers digital games?
Colton Cooper
>I would also like to point out that W10 compatibility with older games can be very hit or miss. then I would also like to point out that you haven't played old games recently on W10, it's compatibility is way above W7, only thing that gave me trouble was BG1 even though all other infinity engine games seem to work flawlessly
just played need for speed 3 (with a wheel) and shit was cash
Jordan Gonzalez
Based retard.
Isaac Reed
>buy book >book deteriorates or pages fall off
t. valve drone nigger who never owned a book
Bentley Lee
I see paying for games as a donation. If I want to be a cheapskate I just pirate. If I like a game enough to think it's worthy of my support I go ahead and pay full price for it. I always considered the used game market as a meme for poorfags retards that are too dumb to pirate. "physical" fags are cavemen.
Enjoy Stadia, the natural evolution of digital distribution.
Andrew Lewis
>Origin doesn't let you resell game >fine >Battlenet doesn't let you resell game >fine >GoG doesn't let you resell game >fine >EGS doesn't let you resell game >fine >Steam doesn't let you resell game >GAMERS RISE UP, WE BOUGHT A DIGITAL GAME WE ARE FULL ENTITLED TO A RESELL >SHUT UP! WHAT DO YOU MEAN THOSE OTHER STORES DONT HAVE IT? WHATABOUTISM WHATABOUTISM WHATABOUTISM GAMERS RISE UP!! This counter culture shit is getting out of hand
If it becomes the only option I have enough games archived to last me a lifetime on my HDDs.
Michael Jenkins
>implying someone uses one of those stores
Chase Collins
its the digital trademark it has his benefits and disadvantages, you know the rules you play by it and no one is pushing you to use it there are other alternatives
you need a dictionary man
Blake Nguyen
>Implying that makes it ok for them to do it but not steam Your bias couldnt be more obvious, EGSnigger
Brandon Barnes
But that's why it's 50-75% less expensive than a physical copy, unless you're unfortunate enough to wait for sales.
Ayden Long
>no one is pushing you to use it there are other alternatives Except that the vast majority of games require Steam or some other account-based DRM, with the notable exception of CD Projekt RED games and the rare Limited Run Games release.
Ian Parker
Every single digital distribution platform has done this you retard. It's not unique to steam.
Kevin Johnson
So build a second computer with your boomer OS for your boomer games. It's not like you'll have to keep upgrading it to run new games.
Mason Thomas
OP is a faggot. But perhaps sell the license you have to the digital copy to someone else.
Grayson Peterson
No, it's as equally as wrong. But no one complains about them because no one uses them.
Ethan Foster
>Origin >Battlenet >GoG >EGS is this the list of things people have never heard of and/or have never used?
Elijah Young
>YOU CANT LEGALLY RESELL STUFF BOUGHT ON ANY VIDYA DIGITAL STORE why is this thread about steam again?
Isaac Smith
Fuck off, all you ebin shills ever do is boast about your supposed sales figures
ITT: zoomers who grew up with digital games as the status quo defending steam.
Thomas Johnson
>you need a dictionary man You need a reality check.
Luis King
welcome to Yea Forums newfag. Epic shills have been praising borderlands 3 for a good bit
Xavier Rivera
Did you know that resales are just as bad as piracy? So if your issue is with the fact that you cannot buy cheaper games; just pirate, the end result is the same
Legally you're allowed to crack any game you buy from them. Also this is a broader problem with Software in general, not just steam. Hell companies straight up think you don't own your own physical copies and if they could they would destroy them, which now they kind of do with day 1 patches on EVERYTHING.
Brayden Lopez
>which now they kind of do with day 1 patches on EVERYTHING. This is very true.
Nolan Rodriguez
Figures Yea Forums would be too stupid to figure this out. Steam is a service. You pay for a service. You cant pay for a car wash and then 3 weeks down the line decide you want to sell the car wash you paid for.
Eat a dick retard, you can't just commit fraud and claim a product is a service.
Christopher Morales
Tell me how many new PC games had a physical release not tied to any account.
John Taylor
>which now they kind of do with day 1 patches on EVERYTHING. At last, I truly see.
Gabriel Parker
Eat shit and die Tencent shill. You don't buy data from Steam you buy a registration key. Winnie the Pooh Tiananmen Square Massacre your way back to hell.
Dylan Watson
Do you know what fraud is? Or what a service is?
Nolan Robinson
Oh shit I didn't know this. I guess Gabe's alright.
Carson Russell
if you're going to hurt the devs why half ass you double nigger
Jose Cox
You should wear a helmet
Joshua Evans
>>you can't partly pay videogame 2.0 with the money you would have earned from selling videogame 1.0 Because there literally is no value in it, however steam has value in 2.0 by hosting it Yes you could argue that this completely devalues steam but then again you bought the game, retard.
Lincoln Howard
>if you're going to hurt the devs So, you think when people resell their books or albums they're hurting their profits?
Jacob Harris
yes the dev gets nothing from you two
Samuel Sanders
>buying multiplayer only/focused games >FOMO You have to go back, normalfag.
At best it could be argued that steam offers the service of allowing you to download your games from them, a game purchase doesn't magically become a service just because it's software.
Jackson King
Because those are physical items you can physically lend or sell to another person. Buy on the Switch if you don't like it. >but muh fisher price toy! Can't help ya then.
Sebastian Gutierrez
>At best it could be argued No, at best it could be argued that it's a service like they've argued it. Just because you cannot accept it doesn't mean that it can't be true.
Lincoln Phillips
Enjoy your life.
Brayden Lewis
Applies to Origin, Epic, Blizzard, etc.
Aaron Parker
>So I am just renting the games I "buy" ? ye. Pretty sure it's even stated plainly in their EULA. Your fault for not reading properly.
> or some other account-based DRM huh wow its almost like its not steams fault and that the actual game company is selling you a license and you're anger like usual is directed at the wrong thing
>When you buy something, you become the owner of the product. It's that simple. It's YOURS. And since it's YOURS, you can actually give it or resell it. sure you can, except not on steam. Valve as a corporation has the right to choose and not choose who to trade what or which product with them. You can't force them to buy the game from you if it has no value to them. And you can't sell data without a contract from the creator because while you do own it, you do not own the image or rights of said thing.
Short version, go fuck yourself, retard.
Adrian Howard
Read the post I was replying to: >no one is pushing you to use it there are other alternatives My point is that there are no alternatives. I never said it was Valve's fault.
Anthony Stewart
Literally, we only have this issue because retarded dickheads like to pretend that they aren't actually selling you shit. This is straight up an issue with software and has been an issue with like, fucking ALL of software, for whatever reason people have decided that it's okay that for all intents and purposes that we just PRETEND that purchases aren't real just because they're digital. Hell companys lose FUCKING NOTHING if they knock off this retarded fraud game and actually acknowledge people own the shit they buy.
Josiah Scott
the alternative is going and buying a physical copy at a fucking gamestop
Hunter Sullivan
you can sell steam accounts, retard.
Mason Clark
That's literally what it is. It says so in the TERMS OF SERVICE. Just because you want to THINK you are purchasing an actual product doesn't mean you actually are.
Oliver Hughes
>quarter of their budget goes to donations Fuck these stupid fucking things
We have these threads because you pretend that they are selling you shit.
John Barnes
Yea Forums on money:*rubs hands* Yea Forums on not being able to make money/make back money lost:OY VEY, id's anodah shoah Before you start whining and crying out in pain as you strike, the best solution is to buy carefully and accept loss gracefully.
Christopher Green
Why the fuck are people even responding to this bait thread?
When you buy a physical game, what do you think you own?
Chase Evans
Yeah if I shoot you in the chest and say you killed yourself doesn't mean it's true. I am not going to bend on this dumbass fraudulent bullshit, and I'm not gonna GNU cuck either and try to fix the issue by pretending that shit is actually real.
Jaxson Brooks
It was quite literally made by the kind of shithead that gets a job at a bank day one out of collage. That's literally how they are taught how to get rich because that's how their parents got rich, go to donation drives.
I own the game and the software on the disc to do whatever the fuck I please with besides copying it and distributing it. Straight forward and Not retarded
Samuel Cruz
Do you know what law is?
Isaac Murphy
only cheap companies look for quality game making companies that produce an actual game disk.
Such as? CD Projekt RED, IndieBox, Limited Run Games and?
Carter Harris
waa digital games bad! They are going to take them away one day! maybe ill be dead when it happens but waaaa my games! Steam a company that prints money could close down at any second! waaaaa! Not like the recent dota 2 international made valve over 100 million dollars
Brayden Williams
I don't give a shit about the law. If the law says someone can sell you something and pretend they aren't selling you it. Than it might as well be legal to shoot someone and say they killed themselves because the two concepts are comparably retarded.
Jeremiah Rogers
>Steam is a service. You pay for a service.
Steam itself is offered as a service. The software licenses you purchase are legally neither a good or a service in most civilized countries, leaving consumers up shit creek.
The EU at least is working on officially classing software in a new third pillar 'digital content', affording consumers equal rights to physical goods. That means digital content must pass a fitness/comformity test (i.e. have proper performance given hardware specs and must be bug free) or you are legally allowed to ask your money back. And last I checked the right to resale was on the table as well.
Jordan Ramirez
Actually, all you own is the physical disk. That's it. You own the software on the disk just as much as you own the software on your harddrive.
Cameron Flores
>I don't give a shit about the law. Well you should. The absolute state of these arguments. Holy shit
>Steam Hello there EGS shill. Did you know you can't resell anything digital? You can't resell your iTunes music nor your Amazon Prime downloads.
Charles Garcia
Are you on drugs or something? You're reasoning has degraded into nonsense.
Leo Perry
What about key re-sellers?
Alexander Ross
You idiots... this isn't Steam's fault. This is the fault of the gaming industry devs and publishers. Steam is the LEAST to blame for this, as they attempted to allowing resale of games a few years back and all the major publishers went "If you do that, we leave Steam".
Every single store besides Steam is WORSE in terms of resale rights and even just use permissions.
Gavin Price
Buddy if law meant shit, this fraud would have been shut down in the fucking 70s, don't make whelch legalistics at me to enable what literally anyone would call fraud.
Evan Young
kill yourself
Jack Cox
>unironic boomerposting this reads like a facebook post
Joshua Lopez
Refer to the car wash statement. If you bought from me 1 car wash, do you genuinely believe you should be able to resell that later?
Matthew Taylor
Damn user, you have a good point. Lets hope Epic gets right on it to let us sell our games. That will show Valve.
I am actually curious as to what is comparable between those two concepts.
Nolan Rogers
>inb4 steam started this shit steam won this race, and people followed them. this applies to: nintendo "store", xbox live, psn, uplay, origin, battlenet, etc. do you think that all this services will change in near future? i doubt it
Mason Smith
12 year old Steam "lawyers" are here for damage control, guys.
Is a deck of cards a car wash? Is a toolbox a car wash? Eat a shit Selling a product, is selling a product. Also your analogy is fucking retarded, a more apt analogy would be BUYING the things to wash your car and using YOUR OWN HOSE AND SPONGES to wash a car, and then at some arbitrary point in the future, the guy you bought them from said "Oh hey I decided you don't own that now gimme back the rest of the cleaner."
Noah Thompson
香港獨立 香港城邦自治運動
James Roberts
>buy an e-book >you can't sell it
>buy cloud computing services >can't sell the cloud
>buy website domain >you can sell it
>Buy any digital game from any store >can't sell the game
The disingenuous fag alarm is ringing hard in this thread.
Grayson Green
The EULA can go fuck itself. EU courts have established the precedent that if the storefront uses wording such as "purchasing" or "buying" then the consumer is buying goods they have ownership over; and are infact not renting or subscribing to a service.
The only reason this doesn't work for software is because the asshole software industry lobbied to have software that is not purchased on a physical carrier, be exempt from the whole goods/services bifurcation. In effect, it is actually _neither_ leaving it in a sort of anything-goes free-state where companies are free to screw consumers over in every way possible.
Britain eventually got fed up with it and started treating software as a good regardless of presence of a physical carrier anyway. Several other member states followed suit.
The end result of it all is that now the EU is in the final phases of a process to ratify a new directive that officially classifies software as digitial content; a third pillar next to goods and services. And as the ultimate "fuck you! you had your chance" to the industry, this directive basically gives consumers all the protection from goods and services; tops it off with all new measures of protection unique to software; and puts basically all the burden with the seller and supplier.
Lucas Collins
>he dosn't know
The protections the EU provides only extends untill you start downloading the game. The current valve policy gose beyond what the EU had already outlined so thinking the EU has your back or are going to help you in any way is laughable.
Nathan King
>buy ebook >strip drm >give it away
>buy cloud services >resell/offer your own services based on it
>buy domain >can sell it
>buy digital games >strip drm and give it away The stupidity alarm is deafening.
Andrew Wood
>Actually, all you own is the physical disk. That's it.
In the EU you own the physical disk as well as the license to use the software. You also have the right to sell the license on, regardless of what any EULA says. This is law, and in the EU a stupid EULA cannot trump rights given by law. Moreover, when you sell the license on, all _other_ rights attached to the license such as the right to access updates online; communicate with a server environment using an authorized acount; etc. etc. transfer along with the license. And if the supplier does not uphold those rights for the new owner of the license, then they are in breach of contract.
Juan Watson
>you know the rules you play by it and no one is pushing you to use it there are other alternatives
>a company called "FOOD CORP." possess all the food available on earth with the exception of a pack of carrots >"NO ONE IS PUSHING YOU TO BUY FOOD FROM FOOD CORP. !!"
1000000000 bucks that you will not spend the rest of your life eating carrots, day and night, for morning, lunch and dinner and at any time you have to eat and that you will go buy some nice food at FOOD CORP. in less than a week.
yeah, you're right, no one is - literally - pushing you to use it, you're just pushed to use it simply because you don't have any choice any way as the "alternatives" simply cannot provide what you are looking for.
There's only choice when at least the alternatives can provide you at least something similar to what you are looking for. There's currently no alternative that provides at least a semblance of what you can find on Steam, which results in, in the best case, a very reduced alternative choice and in the worst and most realistic case, not any actual choice in the end. But at least that's shows how important is the issue and why we need to see some real competitors to stop Steam's abuse of its dominant position (which is, at least in the EU), an infringment of the competition law / antitrust law, so, illegal and the reason why Google was fined twice by the EU commission (2.5 millions € in 2017 then 5 billions € in 2018).
Connor Young
>another retard who pretends to know how EU works top lel
Gavin Smith
>has to go extra steps
I can take a car to the chop shop too but that doesn't make it kosher when I sell it. In fact to dose the opposite of that.
Jace Flores
>The protections the EU provides only extends untill you start downloading the game.
That only applies to the right of withdrawal, you idiot.
Ayden Peterson
>extra steps What extra steps? Things you should be doing in the first place?
Blake Clark
There was an official courtcase with the European Court of Justice that settled the matter. Oracle vs UsedSoft. Check your facts.
doesn't gog give you drm free ownership? you can resell that if you try.
Bentley Gonzalez
it all boils down to OP being a retarded consolefag
Jacob Hernandez
>buy food analogy >can change the words and resell it
WHY ISNT EVERYTHING THE SAME BACK IN MY DAY WE BARTERED FOR GOODS
Christian Howard
great now I'm fapping to Yea Forums of all boards...
Luke Ramirez
Epic, Origin, Xbox Live and the Playstation Network do the same thing as Steam. The only storefront were you actually own the games you buy is GoG.
Michael Carter
wrong
Kayden Ramirez
>what we now get to look forward to because of this
>anything with perpetual monthly updates now charging monthly fees so keys can't be resold >20 billion different versions of the same program coming out instead of free updates to devalue resales of the old version with planned obsolescence now factoring even more heavily into software design
Thanks EU, you really considered how multinational corporations are going to handle this.
Jose Lewis
>Hurr software should not abide by LITERALLY ANY CONCEPT OF OWNERSHIP AS IT HAS EXISTED FOR MILLENNIA >why? >IT'S NOT A SALE IT'S NOT A SALE IT'S NOT A SALE REEEEEEE
>2. USING GOG SERVICES AND GOG CONTENT >2.1 We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a 'licence') to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This licence is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this licence in some situations, which are explained later on. >You have the personal right to use GOG content and services. This right can be suspended or stopped by us in some situations. >2.2 When you buy, access or install GOG games, you might have to agree to additional contract terms with the developer/publisher of the game (e.g. they might ask you to agree to a game specific End User Licence Agreement). also >3.3 Your GOG account and GOG content are personal to you and cannot be shared with, sold, gifted or transferred to anyone else. Your access to and use of them is subject to GOG’s rules which are set out here, as updated or amended when necessary.
Brayden Allen
>b-b-but if you own your software y-you'll distribute it! Which is why they paid for it in the first place instead of pirating and seeding it?
Parker Taylor
For what country is this for
John Ortiz
SAY IT LOUD SAY IT PROUD FUCK VALVE
Evan Allen
What monopoly?
Bentley Jones
>"with no cost" yeah absolutely, internet is just magic, no need for submarine communication cables or communications satellites, which of course need no human power to build and maintain
Jeremiah Wood
gamasutra.com/blogs/KonstantinEwald/20141003/227027/German_Court_Key_Selling_infringes_Copyright.php And even worse: >Although the court did not have to discuss in any detail, it even implied that the UsedSoft case might not be applicable to computer games at all. According to the court, games are not only simple computer software but complex hybrid works and therefore not only protected as software but also under classic copyright rules. As a result, the matter could not be compared to the UsedSoft case in any way.
Elijah Rodriguez
You have to bear in mind, they probably have a highly partisan mindset, they probably aren't capable of acknowledging that there are different things than steam or EGS.
Thomas Hernandez
Did a chicken draw this?
Samuel Stewart
More like >Yea Forums on being personally benefited by something: Very good, eat shit commies! >Yea Forums on NOT being personally benefitted by something: Very bad, fuck you kikes!
Tyler Edwards
Except they didn't? The proceedings had the ECJ rule UsedSoft as being in the right.
This has nothing to do with Steam in particular, it's about digital products in general. It would be very nice to be able to sell digital products but I doubt it will ever happen on a large scale, at most we'll get a small shop using it as a gimmick and most of the market won't care enough to move away from the big shops which do not support it.
I doubt any laws will force shops which "sell" digital products to offer resale functionality. This is about everything that's digital-only. Music, any program (Android/iOS apps), video and everything else. Entire industries will resist and fight this, plus I'm not entirely certain that most people actually care or actually want to resell their digital purchases. There are other problems as well, like the fact that some of these digital products are inherently dependent on the platform, which in turn means that any sales between users will have to be handled by the platform, which actually means that since these are not physical products you will not be able to sell them if the platform itself dies.
Jonathan Ward
shitty scribbles. even is better in terms of cleanup. Oddly enough Yea Forums is less scribbles
Andrew King
lost in the german courts.
David Wilson
You know you can think Piracy is wrong and also want software publishers to not defraud people Also with the multiplayer one 9/10 the only thing the people "banning" you actually run is the master server, and if we're looking at this at a reasonable way, don't really have any right to ban you from servers they don't own.
Ayden Howard
There's an EULA that essentially says the same thing for True Crime Streets of LA, a fucking 2003 PS2 game. >LIMITED USE LICENSE. Activision grants you the non-exclusive, NON-TRANSFERABLE, limited right and license to use one copy of this Program solely and exclusively your personal use. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by Activision. THIS PROGRAM IS LICENSED NOT SOLD. YOUR LICENSE CONFERS NO TITLE OR OWNERSHIP in this Program and should not be construed as a sale of any rights of this Program. There's also a bit stating that you cannot sell the game w/o Activision's permission.
Brody Bailey
Yes, it obviously is, because this isn't even about games. You could say the same shit about smartphone apps, or music on services like iTunes, or pretty much any other purely digital software purchase and you can obviously say it about every other major game shop out there, plus all the digital shops on consoles. Even mentioning Steam by name makes it obvious.
Christian Wright
That particular case split the license from the physical copy. Both the license and the original medium are joined at the hip. This was an essential crux of the UsedSoft case.
Note that the UsedSoft case even painstakingly refers to the fact that if the original medium is a digital download; any new digital download is still considered the original medium. So, if e.g. someone re-sells a license key and the new owner has to use that key to get access and redownload some client software, then that is perfectly legal.
And the thing where the court refered to games as a hybrid was conjecture that was not further visited or found any place in the eventual ruling. For the actual ruling, the only thing that mattered was the fact that the original medium (the physical disk) was not passed on along with the license.
Jose Clark
>buy physical version of an online multiplayer videogame 1.0 >company release videogame 2.0 >most players switch to videogame 2.0 >decide to switch as well to videogame 2.0 to keep playing with many players >videogame 1.0 lost its value by 60% >can't resell videogame 1.0 because literally no one wants it >company shutdown videogame 1.0 servers because no one is playing it >*company name* is literally stealing money from you
No they didn't. The german courts do not trump the ECJ. Period.
What you are refering to was a different case. And in that case the key reseller lost because they did something that specifically went against what was ruled with Oracle vs UsedSoft: they split the license from the physical medium on which the software originally was shipped.
Get your facts straight.
Isaiah Hernandez
OP literally mentioned the company hes shilling: Robot cache (literally who?). Also this is sort of bs to compare it to physical objects. Digital storefront is its own things. >You can't resell e-Book bought from kindle >You can't resell music bought on itunes >You can't resell movies bought on youtube
>Robot Cache, S.L. is a video game company established to allow for digital buying and selling of video games. It was founded in January 2018 by Brian Fargo, and expected to start business in the second quarter of 2018.
Aimed to be a direct competitor to Steam, the digital storefront from Valve Corporation, Robot Cache differs itself by allowing users to sell games through the service, using encrypted blockchains in its distributed structure to track transactions rather than set by centralized servers. This reduces the cost of operating the storefront, and allows for a greater percentage of the game's price and of its resale to go back to the developer and publisher. The service will be backed by a new cryptocurrency, IRON, which sellers will receive and can use to purchase games alongside real-world funds.
Juan Gonzalez
I stand corrected on one point: what you are refering to is not the case referred to by which I thought for a moment you might have been refering to.
However, the original case of Oracle vs UsedSoft was, infact, still a different case from the ECJ one. It was the original starting case. The one that kicked-off the enquiry and case with the ECJ, which UsedSoft did win.
However, when the results of the ECJ case were taken back to the german courts, those eventually ruled that UsedSoft could not sufficiently prove exhaustion because they could not prove the first owner did away with their original copy of the software. And UsedSoft in turn folded.
This however does nothing to invalidate the original ruling by the ECJ. Which again: UsedSoft *did* win.
Colton Thomas
>OP literally mentioned the company hes shilling: Robot cache. Holy fuck, I'm a retard.
Isaiah Cooper
alright who here has ever used Robot cache. this is literally the first time i have heard of it. even on this site
Zachary Wilson
It's still in Early Access. Hasn't been released yet.
Thomas Flores
>Buy physical PC game >'This product requires Steam activation'
Thanks for helping
Mason Powell
so its currently not a real thing? does it have the backings of any real companies
Angel Sanders
>buy videogame >videogame gets shitty "update" inspired by reddit shitposting >cant go back to the old version you actually bought, have to deal with shitty new "features" >DLC released >cant play without it, have to download it and the gameplay is broken by "features" behind the pay wall
I'll concede for now. Thanks though, it's all very interesting.
Nathan Bailey
you are right psn is a real problem
Christopher Flores
>When using Netflix or Spotify I don't, I pirate music and movies
Jose Robinson
thug life hey?
Juan Rogers
>Go to the theater >Buy ticked >Go watch a movie >Movie ends >"Hey, I want to resell my ticked"
Also: Books, Computers, Houses = Physical goods Video games on steam = Digital goods
Hunter Ortiz
A game is not a movie experience, it's computer software. >Digital goods >costs literally nothing to distribute >no technical difficulty making it so you could actually own the product >people are okay with just renting them at full price because they can get most of them on the same platform The absolute state of cuckoldry in 2019.
Remember, you used to be able to buy programs. You paid the money, got the installer and a product key, you could install it offline and use it until the end of time. Today, the only way you can achieve this with games is piracy or GOG. Mostly piracy, since most games are not available on GOG/itch.io.
Gabriel Diaz
ITT: Gaben defenders planting a flag in the name of their lardass master seriously is their anything worse than a steamfag, xbones are better than them
Grayson Robinson
Probably because games were sold as actual physical copies then. Steam blatantly sells it as a purely digital goods and never stated otherwise. Even GOG pulls the same kind of shit, you can't update the game without opening its "not-drm" desktop app
Joseph Sullivan
If digital goods costs nothing to distribute then why should you (someone who didn't create it originally) should be able to profit from it via distribution?
Liam Reyes
As we can see from the case of GOG, that doesn't matter, you can actually buy games digitally there, not just licenses. On GOG, you usually get a new installer for a later version of the game, so you can save that to your computer, or sometimes they provide an updater executable instead. I see no problem with this, the update is just as yours as the game. The only issue I'd take with GOG is that you can't download older versions of games, you can only use the rollback function in their launcher; they should address this, but it's still far superior to what Steam has to offer. What's more, when I wanted an offline installer of an older version of a game, I sent them a ticket and they dug it up for me, so I commend them for that at least.
Tyler Taylor
>477711910 You don't buy games from steam, you rent them and, therefore; do not own them. Now go kill yourself, you dumb fucking retard.
Easton Foster
It's not really backed by real people apparently.
Caleb Martin
Berry good charry me make sure you have many dollar deposit to epic game account
Gabriel Nguyen
IP law is jewish af just make it all public domain.
this has been a thing since forever. look at your doom 2 floppy disks ( you DO have your doom 2 floppy disks, right? ). it says all rights reserved. look at what those rights entail, and youll notice that, yes, they reserved the right to rescind the license to the game you "totally" own, if its deemed your abusing your copy in some sort of way.
the only difference now is that its actually feasible to enforce this rule everyones been okay with for 20 plus years, since rescinding a key with steam is a tad easier then kicking down your door and demanding you to give it up.
of course, retards will assume that this somehow means im implying its okay or allowed, and not the point that having a problem with this NOW, this far after the fact, is a little fucking pointless. you cant buy the horse armor and decide NOW your not okay with piecemeal dlc.
Member states have to transpose it to national law by 07-2021 and it will come into force by 01-2022. Still a long ways off -- Don't you just hate how slow legislation moves? -- but by 2022 it means the situation for gamers will significantly improve.
Games put out on the market by shady publishers that leave them broken, never to be fixed, will practically cease to exist as they will be shunned by sellers when EU residents are from that point on legally entitled to either have the issues fixed, or obtain a full refund. Moreover, it reverses burden of proof for one year after purchase of off-the-shelf software, placing burden of proof for conformity issues with the trader. For contracts that stipulate continuous supply of content, however, the period of reverse burden of proof runs as long as the contract. And that's _very_ interesting for digital content platforms like Steam, which register the content in your account and offer you to download it whenever and forever. I.e. for those type of offers, the burden is always and forever on the trader/seller to prove that the content *does* operate correctly.
Also nice for the people worried about broken patches and the scum-sucking practice of re-balancing a running game's meta due to new paid DLC fucking everything up: EU residents will be able to terminate their contract and obtain a refund.
Luke Roberts
>Buy video game >Get banned from video game >WTF THIS IS LITERALLY THEFT
Nathaniel Watson
>because you pay it the game once and can't opt out. you literally can, dumb chink
Carson Ross
>agree with every purchase that you are simply buying a license to play the game that steam owns >WTF WHY DID NOBODY TELL ME I DONT OWN THE GAME THIS IS A SCAM!!!!!!!!
