Piracy

Is video game piracy really dying? A friend of mine just got his fifth copyright notice and now he has to download games on mobile data at 6 kilobytes per second. They're even watching obscure games now.
>inb4 VPN shills tell you to just spend money to avoid spending money

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fucking retards

>Is video game piracy really dying?
No. Retards are just being retards. What else is new?

>tpb
This really is the underage board huh?

>torrenting
Might as well just turn yourself in.

what kind of retard still uses torrents?

>be American
>get shot
>get jailed for pirating Mass Effect Andromeda
>die because you don't have health insurance to receive treatment after getting shot and having bearing damage from playing Mass Effect Andromeda

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>use the internet
>go to jail
First World

>be american
>be male
>be female
>sue those who refuse to use pronouns

What the fuck do you use, then? I bet you faggots buy all your games.

Every reply to this post MUST include a screencap of the number of games in your Steam library if you want to be taken seriously.

>>inb4 VPN shills tell you to just spend money to avoid spending money

You get a VPN to avoid spending a shitload of money. You can pay 9 dollars for Windscribe, torrent all the games you want for 30 days, even ahead of when you intend to play them, and then not pay again.

You also avoid giving money to companies you don't want to have it. I pirated Ashen because it went Epic exclusive. I didn't want anyone involved to have my money.

>pirate the entirety if everything
>Get copyright notices in mail
>Use them to clean poopoo from butt
>Cop knocks on door
>Shoot him for trespassing
AMERICA FUCK YEAH!!

Piracy can die, just like kickass torrents died. If the people and groups who dedicate themselves to cracking games stopped, there is no guarantee they would be inevitably replaced, as is the case with kickass.

You got a problem with that?

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You don't go to jail, you just get sued into abject poverty by multibillion-dollar corporations and pass the debt onto your family when you die.

cs.rin.ru

>How do you solve this problem?
>NO POSTING THE SOLUTION REEEEEEEEE

>>inb4 VPN shills tell you to just spend money to avoid spending money
OP can't inb4, but there are free VPNs. You're just a dumbass normal faggot who can't figure out how to pirate.

Personally I use NordVPN, but that's only for going on sketchy sites. If you are legit being tracked then you've done something to gain their notice. My advice is to not pirate normalfaggot stuff.

meh, most new western games are not worth pirating.

>I bet you faggots buy all your games.
LOL this normalfaggot is trying to figure it out. I bet you would love to know all the piracy sites wouldn't you. Sorry bro, secret clubhouse rules.

Fucking cops, harassing dat deer who dindu nuffin. Deer Lives Matter!

I pirate a fresh copy of Skyrim every week

enjoy being sued bitch

>using public trackers
>not having a seedbox to shield you
>not downloading vidya through SFTP in said seedbox to further shield you
>not using the seedbox to stream films /TV shows

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I only got a copyright notice once for pirating a new movie a few years ago. Never happened again. It probably helps that I pretty much only pirate retro stuff now. Nobody is going to give a shit if I download a copy of Tremors or Space Station Silicon Valley.

>paying to pirate

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Vidya piracy is thriving, Epic Store introduced an entire generation to piracy

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How hard is it to just take a laptop to your local library or internet cafe and just fill your hard drive with all the games you want there? Or get a VPN? Or literally use any other website besides TPB? You have all these options and you still choose to be retarded. I've honestly never had any issues with TPB myself but then again I'm not retarded. Dauphong says hello.

Why the fuck would I tell you my secrets? You're either a retard or a narc.

>my friend
Im gonna go with its actually you who got the copyright notices for being a retard and seeding instead of just leeching

I've gotten notices for old games that are no longer available to purchase lol. It's stupid. I don't like the idea of paying for a VPN either, although it's the better deal if you're going to pay for something anyway.

I started using i2p instead. It's basically torrenting with a VPN built in. It's a little slow though, and selection is limited because it's not as popular, but I haven't gotten a single notice for anything downloaded through it.

Never seed no matter what sweaty nerds tell you and stop pirating normalfag shit.

>*snooooort* for just a small monthly subscription fee you can-
Might as well just buy the games then.

I like the ease of streaming TV shows and its still a lot cheaper than Netflix. And getting games is a matter of few clicks, literally. No Google drives, no waiting for a slow torrent. I'm literally set for life. U mad, cs.rin kiddie?

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I do all those things without paying anything besides ISP.

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Fuck the copyright notices it's all those fucking miners that could be anywhere at any time, can't trust shit anymore more than ever

>Is video game piracy really dying?
No, you shit brained fucktard. Your "friend" deserves it for being a big enough dumbfuck to use a public tracker.

That Bitch fucked up my Puppy, it deserves every beating it gets.

Sure bud

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I'm in Australia, I use Pirate Bay, and never ever gotten a notice.

Roos probably keep getting in your mail and eating it

Shit ive gotten like 7 copyright notices never had any problems. You only get them from new releases and sometimes from popular old shit l. I remeber I got a couple for morrowind and Aoe. Lot of idiots who fall for the scare tactics.

im a payfag how would i pirate shit without getting a virus/copyright notice?

B8, fake, and gay. Six strikes has been dead for years now. Media sharing shall always prevail!
archive.is/4TFAU

by doing things correctly, not leaving a corpse

>without getting a virus
Don't be retarded and download obviously shady shit. Read comments. Use a file scanner (though sometimes they give false positives).

>copyright notice
Direct download, VPN, or i2p.

>Shit ive gotten like 7 copyright notices never had any problems.
I remember when I had AT&T and they sent me a final warning stating if I got caught one more time they'd shut off my service. I kept torrenting since I was moving in a few months they never did shut my service off or send more emails.

thanks user, best response ive gotten to asking that question

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Why do people still bitch about vpns costing money in this day and age? there's "lifetime vpn subscriptions" going on sale for like 30 bucks all the time, are you people really this poor?

I paid for mine in like 2014 and haven't spent another cent since.

you can ignore warnings, it's impossible for them to sue you.

>prove this was my IP

>you can't

>are you people really this poor?
This board is filled with 3rd worlders who are that poor and kids who can't get hold of their parents credit cards.

It's easier than ever, except there's nothing I want to pirate anymore. What a paradox. Mostly I pirate audiobooks and lectures these days.

It's on the rise, actually.

The best anti-piracy measure in this day and age is the games themselves. They're garbage and not worth pirating.

I've honestly never gotten a virus or a miner from any torrent I've ever downloaded. Using some common sense goes a very long way. TPB for example there is a handful of trusted uploaders who always upload the files as they are from the crackers. Just remember their names and you'll be fine. Keep an eye on file sizes too. Check the steam page and see if the torrent matches.

>spend decades pirating
>no vpns or private trackers
>never got any letters or strikes
>meanwhile a friend I knew got 2 strikes despite using vpns and private trackers.

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Bag

Usenet

>all spent money is equal
For twenty bucks a month (seedbox), I pirate every 4K movie release, download every worthwhile PC/Switch game and anything else I can find. My twenty buck invest mean yields the same entertainment as 300-500 bucks if I was a legit buyfag.

ISPs largely are not monitoring your downloads whatsoever. All copyright complaints are usually the holder monitoring torrents and then alerting your ISP. The ISP is required to inform you of the notice, and caution you about intentionally doing illegal shit, and warn you do download pirated shit.
BUT
1) they can't actually monitor whether you DID pirate
2) they can't monitor if its still on your computer if you did
3) they can't ensure that the piracy was committed intentionally or by a non-minor
so yeah, the warnings with 9/10 ISPs don't mean shit
it's an obligation to them
as long as you aren't being a dumb dumb and getting caught consistently within a short time, they aren't gonna take action

>meanwhile a friend I knew got 2 strikes despite using vpns and private trackers.
sounds like your friend isn't using the VPN properly

>as long as you aren't being a dumb dumb
it's more of a case of I didn't give a shit since I was moving anyways so I wanted to see if they'd shut it off.

>pay $9
>pirate ten $60 games
>pirate twenty $30 games
>mfw i might as well have just paid $1200

>hello fellow pirates, where do i find "my" free games?

naw, i got ya, i'm just saying in general notices are a liability thing and don't actually get followed up on if they aren't ridiculously concurrent

ISPs don't want to shut your service off, you're still paying them. Unless they start getting sued or something you're doing is causing them to lose money, they'll probably do whatever they can to keep you as a customer.

USA I presume?

Your friend probably downloaded an obvious bait/fake torrent. Learn what users you can trust.

Use a sandbox.

Most games are so huge these days you end up having to pay for a file hosting a site, a VPN, bandwidth, time and then more hard drive space to keep it.

>implying 3rd worlds get copyright notices in the mail from their ISPs
kek, stay mad mutt

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>PM’d you the fix :)

I'm not a 56er pedro.

You think they can monitor who is downloading what? This was mainly geared toward the uploaders.

Nah you’re more of a 64

Still whiter than you hassan.

Whoooosh

Alright. Spoon feed me then.

>download stuff from direct download sites
>run them in wine on an account without internet or root access
If Windows didn't have shit security you could just do the same thing on it.

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I use it. Why would you brag about having your ISP so far up your ass they awe Columbus?

glowniggger

stupid burger

I don't know if piracy is "dying", but it's definitely no longer in the golden age it had when pic related was still up. Direct download sites, especially those that offer GOG installers, are far more convenient if you're living under the boot of retarded American laws and don't want to get a VPN. Just don't use IGG-malware.

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All I've noticed is a massive rise in people begging for magnet links or "sites".

>pirating worthless western shit
>pirating japanese games and putting them out of business leaving only shit western games left
The only game worth pirating is pokemon. Even then Gamefreak is trying really hard to make Sword and Shield so awful that even it's not worth a download.

>kat
>golden age
are you a zoomer?

64? As in the N64? You mook?

That's a complete non-sequitur then you fucking ESL retard.

Sounds like a retard. Only time I've ever gotten one of those copyright notice things was when I was a kid. Torrented some Gamecube games, my mother got an email asking us to stop, nothing else. Haven't gotten a single thing since moving and switching service providers about 6 years ago now.

I'll add, I've only used a VPN for a single game that leaked before release day. Other than that, never used one.

He had I think either mediacom or comcast. Those fuckers will monitor everything you do. It didn't help he was going for mainstream normie stuff though.

>copyright notice
I bet you also delete your snes roms after 24 hours

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>thinks he's clever

I just keep replaying what I do have since I'm a NEET and too pussy to pirate. Some of the games I own have big modding communities so it's not really an issue.

>copyright notice
Disregard and throw away. They mean nothing and your ISP is merely obligated to send them to you.

If you give any shits about copyright notices it's probably because you still live with your parents and they are tech illiterate so they see this letter designed to intimidate their feeble boomer minds and scare them into thinking some pack of corporate lawyers will sue them for everything they're worth. Of course then they yell at you and demand you stop pirating and logically you don't want to risk pirating lest mommy kick your 30 year old unemployed ass to the curb.

The answer to this problem is 1.) Get a job. 2.) Move out. 3.) Get a VPN.
Yes, it's
>paying to pirate
But think of more like a subscription where you pay $30/year for unlimited games,software, movies, and music and get to keep whatever you download no strings attached. Sure beats paying for them all out of pocket no?

Listen, the reality of the matter is, times are changing and companies are cracking down harder on piracy and putting on more pressure than before. At one time it might have been possible to not pay to pirate and to some extent it still is, but things are gradually moving towards a VPN being a necessity rather than optional.

>get a job and move out
I've applied fucking everywhere and never gotten accepted.
>get a vpn
I literally have zero money. Parents' business is failing and like I said, places hiring don't want me for some reason.

If you're going to torrent use Private Trackers, and never enable DHT, PeX, Local Peer Discovery, or UPnP & NAT-PMP and make sure you require encryption.

Otherwise, VPN + Tor for everything else.

What country/state does this shit ever happen in?
I live in Commiefornia and I've been pirating shit all my life with no VPN all on the clearnet and I never got a strike or notice from my ISP

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Not need for tor with a VPN for regular day to day piracy. That's just gonna slow shit down. There's no need for Tor unless you're doing seriously illegal shit.

You need to understand that there are nearly 8 billion people on this planet. How many of them do you think are pirates? A few million? Think about it. Do you think any company, any government agency has the resources to sift thru that many people and just nab the dozen they can? They don't. When was the last time you've heard of anyone genuinely getting into trouble for pirating? It doesn't happen man. Especially if you are just pirating for personal use. It's one thing to pirate, burn whatever it is onto discs or whatever and sell it. THAT might land you in hot water. But downloading some files, playing them, then deleting them a week later? No one gives a shit. You aren't special.

threaten to change your ISP. They'll back down immediately to keep your business

I wouldn't be surprised if all these stories about people getting sued is straight up made up by VPN companies to get more sales

>zoomers trying to pirate stuff
>OMG DUDE I WILL ROT IN JAIL! I'M A FUCKING GERMAN FAG AS WELL, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING! IT'S NOT FAIR, BROS!
You guys should end yourselves.

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>be a 3rd worlder
>you can download anything and no one will give a fuck about it
>if you can't be bothered to download a game, game stores offer you cracked games for cheap
>all stores sell pre-modded consoles to enable piracy
Living in a shithole has its benefits

Terrible advice, VPN + Tor is to keep your ISP from knowing what you're doing. If you're pirating anything that's "illegal shit" and it's best if they don't know about it.

Your private trackers should take care of 95% of your piracy needs anyway.

Come on now. Zoomer newfags May be obnoxious morons, but we were all obnoxious newfags at one point.

You're cheese pizza is a whole different ballgame and technically isn't even pirating. Not sure what it has to do with anything.

Why don't you try getting a job?

The fact you fucking zoomers use TPB and no vpn tells us you have 0 understanding of how Piracy works. Educate yourself mongoloid.

>only pedophiles use tor
positively glowing

>live in a shithole
>no one gives a fuck if you download vidya

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No one will bully you if you use this stylish handheld.

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Oops wrong thread.
It's a good device for pirating though.

I've got a question about the shady shit on TPB. I still use it because it's decent, but I've noticed that every time a big torrenting site went under a shitload of suspicious torrents were uploaded.
The ones where a single uploader had thousands of torrent uploaded in a matter of days and all had obviously botted seeder numbers. Can anyone tell me what's the point of this? Just plain old viruses/malware/botnets? Some had a single comment, again obviously scripted, that was complaining the torrent is fucked and was directing users to some obviously shady site. So is it just an elaborate advertising campaign to get people to click on that site and get viruses/malware/botnets from there?

VPN already keeps your ISP from knowing what you're doing. The channel between you and the VPN provider is encrypted. As long as you don't disable encryption or use weak encryption settings and avoid ECC if you're one of the ones that believes it's been compromised by the NSA then you're fine.

>I've honestly never had any issues with TPB myself

This. I've pirated from TPB for years and years, and the only thing that ever happened was that I got a bitcoin miner, and that could have been from something else as well (sketchy porn sites)

On TPB, only ever use torrents uploaded by someone with a skull. Also read the comments.

I'm 31. When I was a kid my dad gave me pirated games on CDs he bought from a friend. 'You got a bundle of random games. Then when internet started becoming faster than 56kbit I started torrenting myself on DC++. Then when torrents started appearing I moved on to TPB. I'm still there. Literally decades of pirating. Not even one notice. Swede here .

>Implying Tor hasn't been compromised for years
Who is the real CIAnigger here?

Pretty much. They are all incredibly obvious and usually do it when a new big game releases or is cracked. The biggest telltale it's bullshit is the filesize.
>The Witcher 3 - Codex
>23.4Mb

don't spoonfeed these retards

thepiratebay.org/

Speak for yourself, lurk moar used to be a thing for a reason.

Your debt doesn’t get transferred to your family, unless you accrued the debt jointly with your spouse. You must be 18 to post here.

>copyright notice
That's a completely American thing isn't it?

Same here, except I live in Jew York. As long as you never torrent blockbuster hollywood movies with a massive swarm you'll never get a strike or notice for it. I honestly feel bad for fags living in UK, Germany, China etc or stuck using Uni internet who live in fear of their ISPs and need to pay for VPNs.

If anything it's more prevalent in euro countries. If you live in the US 99% of the time you can ignore copyright notices.

Does your dad date raping you count as piracy?

90% of vidya piracy would vanish if more devs made demos

you’re all still a bunch of broke ass thieves and you will go to jail

I live in Italy and I can dowload ANYTHING whithout any kind of "notification" or shit like that.
I can't tell if all this thdr is a joke/meme or not. How can in the US you have this kind of fascist/intimidating practicing?
Wjy your internet provider knows what you do?
Where is your privacy in your country?
Really USbros, wtf is going on with you?

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how can I tell that youre american

I thought we already established americans don't get jailed for piracy they get "sued"

see
You are a thousand times more likely to get copyright notices or warnings from your ISP if you live in a cucked country like the UK, Germany, Canada, or China than you are in the US.

>Be in 3rd world country
>Everybody torrents
>Even Government
>No repercussions

This kid is too dumb to figure out to pirate, and is obviously too poor to get a vpn. Your words are wasted.

I wouldn't hire someone who couldn't figure out how to pirate either.

>copyright notices from ISP
what isp does this?

I nearly fucked my computer trying to pirate Starcraft 2 before it was released.

>pirating Mass Effect Andromeda
Deserved it.
No one is stupid enough to pirate that game.

>tfw can pirate all I want and not fear copyright notices
The first step is to get some fucking taste and realize nothing is worth pirating. What the fuck are you idiots downloading, the latest AAA trash?

>He doesn't buy games.
Imagine having NO disposable income.
Imagine experiencing NO sense of ownership.
Imagine not being able to play with your friends because you've pirated everything.
>Implying you have friends.

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>he doesn't live in a third world shithole where everything is cheap, whores fuck for free and the government doesn't give a shit about digital piracy

>live in 3rd world
>download anything I want
>nobody cares, copyright notices are just a tale from a distant land
>internet way cheaper than in americuckistan
>can afford everything that isn't luxury without working myself to the bone or swimming in debt
>go outside
>no trannies, gays and insane leftists in sight
wtf I love my life

Or just live somewhere where pirating is legal.

Living the exact same except there are faggots running about, but they're the incredibly based witty, drag queen type and will pay YOU money so they can suck you off.

I suppose that's one good thing about Australia. Pretty much the only online activities our government gives a fuck about is pedophilia.

As for sites like pirate bay, literally the only thing they'll do is try to block access. I've been using one of the alternate addresses for a while though. Download there without a VPN no problem.

My sense of ownership comes from the freedom to do whatever I want with the media I obtain. As far as I'm concerned I have more ownership over games I pirated than ones tied to a digital license that can be revoked whenever the rights holder feels like it. Also my friends and I play local multiplayer/LAN so I don't have to worry about gay shit like paying extra for online multiplayer on console.

Most world governments don't give a shit about it, China and Russia certainly don't. It's corporate lobbyists pressuring governments to do something about it.

>copyright notice
What 1984 hellhole are you typing from?

>A friend of mine just got his fifth copyright notice and now he has to download games on mobile data at 6 kilobytes per second
your friend is just an idiot.

Get free 300$ credit for 12 months for free on Google Cloud Service, setup your own vpn.

> Germany
thats a complete negatory.

>Lurk thread looking for ways to pirate
>"Heh..people torrent still huh?"
>Well, how do I not get caught?
>CIA!! Narc!!
Okay.

>China
>copyright

Piracy is bigger than ever, thankfully it's just going underground again because retarded ass faggot normies like yourself have ruined it.

You won't get copyright notices in China but having a VPN is basically a prerequisite there unless you trust state-run ISPs with your logs let alone piracy.

Germany is one of the worst places to pirate. My friend downloaded something that was copyrighted by Warner and a lawyer firm send them a cease and desist letter and wanted 850€ or else they would take him to court. They work together with IPs so they know you shared something and they will take you to court. In this situation you basically have to take a lawyer because otherwise they will just sue and try to get the money that way. In the end all he had to pay was 70 bucks for the initial meeting with the lawyer, but for like 3 years they kept sending more and more threatening letters, it gets pretty hardcore actually with shit like "if you dont pay up within the next week you might face jail time". His lawyer told him to just ignore everything, the only time where they actually got through with it was when his client literally said "yes I did share the files with other people on the internet" in court. The most insane thing is that 850€ is the maximum they can take for an album, it used to be every more, up to several thousand euro until they standardized it. Even if he was just leeching and shared 50kb, it doesn't matter and trying the "I shared 0,5% of the album so I will pay 0,5% of the fee" doesn't work.

>I'm a NEET and too pussy to pirate.
Truly the beta of betas. jfc

>he doesn't know how to pirate in 2019

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Where do you live?

piracy is only dangerous if youre a brit/american

have fun in jail anons

Philippines

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How do you get trannies paying you to fuck them? I thought it was the opposite and that it was a big place for sex tourism.

All of the ones in the US and some of Europe out of legal obligation. They're just relaying the message from the IP sniffer who tagged you on a torrent you seeded. The ISP doesn't care as long as you keep paying. The law doesn't care about little Jimmy in Big City USA downloading a car because actually linking his parent's IP to a physical storage media holding the copyrighted content by the time they get to him is virtually impossible.

The occasional 'cautionary tale' of some teenager being arrested for torrenting a TV series (TV/movie industry tend to be far more aggressive in their pursuits) is usually a bullshit story fed to the media, often mentioning the kid making money off of it somehow. There is a 0% chance some fuck torrenting a couple games every now and then will ever suffer any more than mean letters sent through their provider.

The law can only ever really pursue the extremely blatant distributors who are leaving a paper trail because they're making significant money from the distribution/storage, and only if they are within reach of the law. Nearly all such people just run their operation in a country that doesn't give a shit about copyright laws nor extradition.

Im older. I have been pirating since SNES. When I got this console I traded my original game included to a pirate version of MK2 in this same store. Brazil here

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Seed the Greedfall fit repack more, you fucking leeches.

Everyone still torrents. These guys probably just mail each other thumb drives filled with whatever they want.

No.

>you can ignore copyright notices
I've never gotten one. So it is an american thing. Bit of a roundabout answer, but ok. Cheers.

What makes Deluge so good? I've had it for about 4 years and I want to get the most out of it outside of casual use.

>big daddy gubbermint don't care
>he only blocks websites
Are you serious? How do you even type that with a straight face? "yeah my dad'sa pretty nice guy, eh, he doesn't force me to swallow"

Charisma
No seriously just treat them nice, spoil them a little bit (everything is cheap af, sometimes THEY pay), pretty much date them but make it quite clear you just want to fuck.
The ladyboys in PH just want to be treated like a girl on a night out. No drama, just the game and the people playing it.
The ones that straight up say they pay you are the fresh newbies that have no experience and would like someone to show them the ropes. I should mention that the gays in PH tend to be loaded with money. Answering how is complicated. I can explain how, but It will probably take another post to do so.

Caught by fucking who?
Not everyone lives in some cucked shithole, you stupid fucking mongrel. I literally just click whatever's got the most seeders on TPB and I haven't gotten any shit for it because I'm not fucking nigger like you.

Peer to peer downloads through a feature-packed interface is not, and will never be outdated compared to your stupid spic ass trawling the net looking for free downloads of 500mb rar archives in 48 pieces going 50 kbps because you're scared shitless of big bro Warner.

Don't come in here acting smug about having an ISP cock so far up your ass you struggle to breathe.

Here's the payment, go on.

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Why does everyone act like pirating in America is some dangerous act that instantly brings a partyvan to your house? These letters are the worst that will happen and the ISPs truly do not give a flying fuck because you're a paying customer. All the copyright trolls have is your IP, and it's been upheld in court that an IP is not sufficient evidence to identify an individual.

Does it mark your router/modem's IP or device's?

Because americans are constantly bitching and moaning about it, running scared, and talking shit about torrents as if DDLs are the new hot thing.

The fags here tend to have the same origin story. Gay kid wants to be a girl, angry dad gets mad and shit happens, kid still a fag but is brought up well thanks to gay positivity mindset, other gay friends and the christian approved TV broadcasts that , while feature a lot of PG stuff, ALWAYS center around a character that is morally upright and always triumphs over the bad guys in the end ( I credit this because of its legitimate impact of preventing kids from going over-the-line degenerate in the country).

The older, more experienced fags do the rest of the work, teaching the kid street smarts, money management, and various skills that can be used to get a job ranging from hair dressing and manicures to professional shit like business management because one of the elder fags graduated college and is successful (happens way more often than you think).

Graduating from college is seen as a big deal especially by the gay community here. The elder fags push the younglings to study hard and it pays off. Gay kid becomes relatively successful but is still gay, bringing with it all the negative stuff it comes with to adulthood. Remember that PH has very christian views.
In the end, you have a country where majority of the ladyboys are witty, intelligent, relatively successful, loaded with money but still degenerate and stressed out and all they want is a night out full of excitement with a man that will treat them the way they want.

>Well, how do I not get caught?
VPN or i2p. Former you have to pay for but will continue to let you use mainstream piracy sites, latter is its own separate thing but free and seemingly safe.

>need a basedbox because public trackers
what if you didn't use those trackers user