What is it about this generic turn-based JRPG combat system that makes it so much more fun than other generic...

Fuck off Beep.

jrpg combat is usually the weakest part of the gentre and atb is the bottom of the barrel where you can't even pretend it has strategic depth like you can with regular old turn based. The mario rpg games are the best attempt at gimmicky turn based combat

You limit break like crazy
Boss fights don't take forever
Tifas victory pose

>The mario rpg games are the best attempt at gimmicky turn based combat

>adding quicktime events
>best attempt at turn based combat
It never ceases to amaze me how unbelievably shit understanding jrpgs fans have of rpg systems

>quick time events
only one not understanding here is you

>environments are static and small 2d backgrounds
Literally the best and most soulful part of the entire game and you list it as a negative. If nothing else, this point alone exposes you as a tasteless zoomer

I already told you to fuck off, Beep.

>Literally the best and most soulful part of the entire game and you list it as a negative. If nothing else, this point alone exposes you as a tasteless zoomer
FF7's environments kill any sort of sense of exploration or engaging level design, which is one of the main pillars of RPGs. They are tiny postage stamps that literally only take a few seconds to traverse (if it wasn't for the constant random encounters every few steps).

Apart from looking good, how the hell are they a positive?

You are the zoomer, since you seem to value visuals over gameplay.

FF7 has just really well designed
The Materia system is very good, and its fun to discover new powerful setups as you progress through the game
The look and feel of the whole game (menus, battles etc) is really nice as well, and, as you say, just fun to play.

I'm really glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.

You say that yet Grandia is a dead ass series that only a tiny minority even knows about. It doesn't even have 1% of the fanbase of FF7 let alone final fantasy series.

>The Materia system is very good
the materia system was wasted potential, most of it was just basic spells and the combos with 2 materias were very limited

that makes sense

>"exploration" over aesthetic
>thinks 2d pre-renders are bad
Yeah go back to playing the Witcher 3 or whatever open world trash you zoomers like. Tasteless pleb.

ATB is garbage and is inherently unfair compared to other turn based systems.

>POPULAR GAME GOOD
>LESS POPULAR GAME BAD
So what you're saying is that Fortnite is a far betteer game than FF7?

FF7 wishes it was half as good as Grandia.

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Grandia might have slightly better combat but everything else about it can't compete with FF7, which is the better game overall.

>jrpg combat is usually the weakest part of the genre
>what are Valkyrie Profile/SaGa/Grandia/BoF3/4 Star Ocean 2 and many more?

FFX had the best combat in the franchise. If they had stuck with it and made it more tactical and difficult it would’ve been amazing.

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>voice acting
Voice-acting sucks and has always sucked and you suck if you think having it makes a game better. There's literally never been a game where I've said "damn, you know what this game needs? Some shit voice acting to drag out cutscenes that are already longer than they should be."
>polygonal models
The FF7 character models are designed to be expressive in animation, something brainless graphicsfags never understand.
>environments are static and small 2d backgrounds
And still hold up today due to their rich detail and remain consistent with traditional top-down Final Fantasy map navigation.
Meanwhile Grandia's 5th gen pre-analog stick 3D environments are ugly with awkward camera controls.
>low-quality midi(sic) music
Which is fine since Uematsu is very good at composing entertaining digital music thanks to his knack for melody and counterpoint.
>Grandia
Generic dumbass JRPG opening that starts with some cryptic dialog between characters you don't know or care about then it transitions to a bunch of kids doing stupid kid stuff. Contrast with: youtube.com/watch?v=TD_GqlNtNjo

it may have been the best (actually X-2) but it's still bland by turn based standards. Moving away from turn based was a good idea, the fact that they fucked up the execution doesn't discount that

X-2 is still ATB garbage and therefore sucks.

Nah, turn based can be very fun and the world has enough decent action games. SMT and Divinity OS 2 both have very fun turn based gameplay

>The mario rpg games are the best attempt at gimmicky turn based combat
user you must not be very bright. Mario RPG integrates a braindead minigame to play that detracts from any real tactical/strategic elements.

it is cinematic and not complex or deep.

>turn based can be very fun
bitch they had 10 (ten) games to make it good and they didn't, it wasn't happening

>SMT
>*smirk*

ATB is super AIDS

Just curious if either if you have played FF4 and FF5 (originals not ports/remake bullshit) or if your entire experience with ATB games is 5th gen and later.

No the problem was they kept dumbing it down over time. The best ATB games are on the SNES.

Only four mainline FF games are turn based, and FFX is the only turn based one with 3D graphics. ATB is not turn based, and slows the game down because of it.

chrono trigger did it best, cause you SAW encounters in advance, no random shit.

4 5 and 6 are still braindead

ATB is turn based, if you think otherwise you are a troglodyte. There arn't enough viable options per character to justify quick decisions

FF4 is a good example of why ATB is shit.
>crank the speed up to max to make fights less of a slog
>Trap Door will consistently cast Nth Dimension before Rosa can get Reflect on someone
>turn the speed to the lowest
>now Rosa always casts Reflect before Nth Dimension despite stats being the same

Not one of those two, but I first experienced ATB while emulating final fantasy 5. I really wanted to love the game, I found the characters pretty charming, but I just couldn't stand grinding in ATB, so much so that I gave up without finishing the game. Finding out that a lot of the FF games were ATB made me give up on ever going through the rest of the games.

By that logic RtwP is turn based

It is. Several affects are measured in turns or rounds and you can even adjust the settings to auto-pause after every round.

>using the band wagon argument on an elitist contrarian anime image board

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>turn battle speed to max
>turn atb to wait
optimal way to play ff7
prove me wrong

Devs just need to stop being lazy. It always reminds me of the jump from morrowind to oblivion. There is nothing wrong with dice roll combat in first person, just add a fucking dodging and blocking animation. SE could have easily done the same here, while speeding up the wait times in between attacks to keep things moving.

>ATB is not turn based
but this is just wrong. Actions happen in 'turns', which is what makes it turn based, unlike 12 for example, where shit can happen at the same time between characters/enemies.
ATB may not be the same as normal turn based, but it's still a form of turn based combat.

it can be. Most, if not all RTwP is shit anyway

>There is nothing wrong with dice roll combat in first person, just add a fucking dodging and blocking animation
How would that work? Your control as a player would constantly get taken away, to play the dodge/block animation. That would be terrible to actually play.

wait is baby mode. recommended and max speed is the best. Active would be ideal but it breaks certain mechanics like protect/shell

what is the difference between recommended and active

honestly don't know entirely, I just know active fucks up persistent spells

>the materia system was wasted potential
Agreed. You have an entire set of materia devoted to being "the second slot" in a pairing, which made most of them feel underwhelming. There was the "do this for all enemies" one, the "also absorb hp" one, the "do this just before you die" one...

You just unlocked new skills and used them, there was never really the feeling of "sweet, now I can pair these two and do something awesome."

ff7 was essentially in the same position as ff4. it was a summation of the previous generation's games on new hardware. one problem with 7 is that it was an aesthetically hideous shift away from the culmination of styles up to 6 (whereas 4 was an improvement of a familiar and pleasant style). another problem was that the story was dumb nonsense, where in the past ff's the stories were quaint (up until 6, at least), followable, and engaging enough to be worth continuing. the dialog and story and characters of 6 are leaps and bounds greater than 7. 7 failed in so many ways, that playing it now and comparing it to older releases in the series can allow for recognition that it is truly at the bottom end of the ff series ranks.

6 did everything better than 7: graphics, story, battles, etc. the only real redeeming quality of 7 is the soundtrack.

If this distinction isn’t important to you then we don’t have much more to discuss. Rtwp is designed with trash encounters in mind and to automate gameplay. Turn based places emphasis on each individual action and removes empty gameplay when designed well.

great, quick, satisfying animations, and excellent sound design/ost

I don't see why. Blocking would be as simple as making your weapon and the enemies weapon/shield connect or vice versa. Dodging could be fairly subtle by not moving your position and having the character lean to the side. Neither of which require the game to take control from the player.

>quick

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>If this distinction isn’t important to you then we don’t have much more to discuss. Rtwp is designed with trash encounters in mind and to automate gameplay. Turn based places emphasis on each individual action and removes empty gameplay when designed well.
Yet those RTwP games have actually hand-placed encounters (instead of copy-pasted random encounters of jrpgs) and far more tactically deep systems.

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there's no such thing as a tactically deep RTwP game. hand-placed doesn't mean good either, despite FF random battles being shit too.

Don’t even bother trying to convince me that Deadfire has better gameplay than DivOs2

I'm not the guy you were talking to. I just wanted to make it clear that RTwP is still considered turn based.

>the dialog and story and characters of 6 are leaps and bounds greater than 7
I wish people would stop spreading this false narrative. FF6 has some of the worst writing I've ever experienced in a game. FF6 is a game that clearly wants players to be invested in the story, yet it never bothers to give any of the characters a real emotional stake in that story. Terra, ostensibly the protagonist, spends almost the entire game in a fugue state and going 'what's going on? aw, my amnesia, aw, my head'. At one point, Banon, the rebel leader, even asks her if she wants to help the rebellion. You can in fact answer no to this question, and if you do it repeatedly, the game actually accepts this answer. Guess what? The game completely ignores your answer and just continues with Terra helping the rebels. How on earth did they go with this script? FF6 is a story where the protagonist literally does not give a shit, so why should the player?

All of the characters ring completely hollow. Cyan is introduced, and within minutes his kingdom and family is poisoned to death, and, minutes later he's cracking jokes about being an old geezer who's clumsy with Magitek mech, and we are supposed to take him seriously as a character and emphatize with him. Edgar, a literal king, joins the rebels, yet there's not a single line of dialogue in the game where he expresses any doubt or hesitation or other human emotion about abandoning the safety of his station. All of the characters are complete caricatures and it's impossible to take the story seriously as a result.

FF7, for all its flaws, at least makes an honest attempt (albeit a clumsy one) to make us emotionally invested in its characters.

Also, FF6's SNES translation (which is what 99% of its fans played) is complete dogshit (to the point of rewriting entire character motivations and plot beats):

legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-vi/summary/

Tell that to the people awaiting Baldurs Gate 3

>complaining about duration
>not KotR
>not Super Nova

This is peak 16bit jrpg

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>philosoraptor was using his foot this entire time
Way to rock my fucking world.

FFX had the best turn system dont

>you should be emotionally invested in your video games
have sex virgin
>terra was the protagonist
duhhhhhh

The only people who don't like turn based are those with ADD, and FF7 was flashy enough with big enough numbers to keep their interest.

yama hama look at the gams on that newman dame

Whoops, posted the wrong picture

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SEGA should have stuck with the 1st person dungeons as the original PhantasyStar though

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