Kazooie GOOD
Tooie BAD
Notes that reset when you die GOOD
Notes in bundles that don't reset BAD
Having the same redudant happy-go-lucky tone for every game GOOD
Experimenting with tone and showing a darker contrast of the world BAD
Small worlds you complete in less than 10 minutes GOOD
Vast open worlds with interconnectivity and convenient warp platforms/Jamjar molehills to instantly transport you to farther away locations BAD.
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FUCK OFF
Hi antdude
Unironically based, I don’t know why many youtubers are throwing shit at banjo tooie
You just know that this is an absolute zoomer opinion since all the recent criticism of Tooie happened AFTER Banjo's announcement in Smash.
These fucks didn't even bother to play the game until the past few months, despite having decades to play it before.
Kazooie is certainly the better game of the two, but Tooie is by no means a bad game.
>Notes that reset when you die GOOD
He literally says the opposite
who the fuck thinks tooie is dark game
It's like they only played the game very recently since Banjo got announced for smash and they are disappointed at how different it is from Kazooie. That's literally what most of the complaints come down to.
It's Majora's Mask syndrome all over again.
Antdude and a lot of others
>Spiral Mountain is destroyed
>Gruntilda is a walking corpse
>2 characters canonically fucking die
Kazooie is The Ocarina of time to Tooie's Majora's Mask
Literally who
CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARES
I do because this faggot is going around telling people it's a bad game when it's not. It's like false information
>put eggs in nests
>put feathers in nests
Genius way to bundle them
>put notes in nests
What the fuck?
It's relatively darker than Banjo Kazooie at times.
>"my dad can fix those goggles for you when he gets back"
>"But who can fix daddy?"
That being said, the new wave of secondaries rushing in thanks to Smash are probably going to start obnoxiously circlejerking over how dark the game is just like with Majora's Mask.
A Youtuber who literally only echoes decades old opinions to people who can't think for themselves or like to live in echo chambers to feel smugly superior about games made for children
>vast open worlds
Stop this meme, already. The maps are mostly bloated and spaced out, without proper movement enhancements to balance it out. Walking through an open field isn't fun. Tooie is allowed to have a couple flaws in its design.
>notes in bundles bad
You didn't even watch the video? He liked that, a lot.
Literal babies
It's slightly more sarcastic than Kazooie
>massive kirbyfag
>didn't like mischief makers
antdude a shit
How did he get so popular out of nowhere? I thought Youtube was trying to kill off gaming videos
Is this the same person making the Arlo threads, they're both shit, stop making these threads
>massive kirbyfag
what do Kirbyfags see in his games anyways? I like Nintendo but Kirby is piss easy and designed for children alone
That's why Warp platforms exist dummy.
>B-b-but you have to find them to use them!
No duh. They actually want you to explore the whole world.
And now for actual high quality videos on banjo 1 and 2.
youtu.be
youtu.be
Enjoy.
unironically this is a a good post
banjo tooie has an insane level of backtracking along with huge empty worlds thanks to only having 17 notes.
not only is banjo tooie a meh sequel, its not even finished
enjoy your 90 jiggies
>Notes that reset when you die GOOD
>Notes in bundles that don't reset BAD
Correct. Notes resetting is what makes Banjo-Kazooie a challenging game with genuinely tense moments even for an adult.
If you think the Xbox version with permanent notes is an improvement you are a retarded casual. And the guy in that video thinks that, by the way.
For me it's mainly super star with all the abilities and their moves to fuck around with. The newer ones have that too, but they feel way more sluggish also shitty bosses.
Yeah, only the first 15 minuets are dark, after that the game goes back to a comedy
And even the first 15 minutes are mostly played for laughs
But that was never rare’s original intention bro. They always intended notes to be collected forever but they needed to rework them into a score based system due to the n64’s memory limits
Tonally, it's a hell of a lot darker. Just look at the worlds of each game, they can get pretty intense in their atmosphere later and are a lot more unwelcoming than Kazooie. Mad Monster Mansion is like a "goofy scary" level, where Tooie really wants to get under your skin at times.
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Tooie has too much walking even with warp pads
>You just know that this is an absolute zoomer opinion since all the recent criticism of Tooie happened AFTER Banjo's announcement in Smash.
Tooie's sprawling interconnected levels have been the big point of contention in Banjo threads for over a decade. It's like complaining about RDR2's longass animations or Half-Life 2's shitty guns: the complaints are so common and widespread because they're those games most contentious flaws. Tooie's is being brought up more because people are bringing the franchise in general up more. Simple as that.
>dude fetch quests LMAO
Tooiefags, I swear.
My only issue with Tooie was the framerate on n64. I remember using the speed cheat with stone banjo and nearly throwing up with the camera shake. Also grunty factory was fucking obtuse as all hell.
>Doing nothing but reading off wiki pages and occasionally saying "That's cool" or "That's bad"
God I hate that fag so much.
>BACKTRACKING BAD!
maybe you shouldn't be playing a metroidvania then.
>inb4 Banjo Tooie isn't a metroidvania
I'll agree with you on the limited note placement though. That shit was a stupid kneejerk reaction to reviewers complaining about collectathon overload from DK64.
Notes should have been singular still and placed around the whole map to reward exploration. The empty world complaint would be almost nonexistant if they did that.
>Bad game design is GOOD game design!
>having consequences for the player dying is bad!
Fuck off casual. The reason why Rusty Bucket Bay and Click Clock Wood are some of the funnest levels to play is because of how much risk there is when 100%ing it.
>liking Banjo series at all
yikes, bad taste
If I remember correctly he didn't hate either game.
Americans can't into dark humor without thinking how edgy it is.
The game was made by brits, for brits.
Daily reminder that if you aren't reading all the characters voices with an english accent, you are playing the game wrong.
I mean ya, a lot of the stuff he said was bad was a mix of things I agree with and things I actually like about Tooie. Isn’t it fun to have varying opinions about 2 games that in general people love? He’s not right, I’m not right, it’s all just sweet delicious opinions
They're both shit
The problem I have with Tooie is inverse the problem I have with Mario Odyssey, which is that you go through SO MUCH WORK to collect one fucking Jiggy that it can feel exhaustive, especially since the level alternatively hands them out like candy, even to Cloud Cuckooland. Grunty's Industries is the best example. You can either a) solve a puzzle involving flying to the roof and busting open a window, or b) clean every single motherfucking bunny's outfit in the entire goddamn building or c) solve several puzzles to open the way to weldar and actually fight his ass
They could have toned the complexity down just a little and nothing of value would have been lost.
It's funny though because DK64's backtracking problem was that you had to play the same level 5 times and cover all the ground with every Kong and you could only switch at sparingly placed barrel switch points.
>implying the interconnected levels are a negative point
The levels all being logically connected into one large world is one of the coolest things about Tooie. The only problem with Tooie's level design is all of the unused space devoid of collectables or anything else notable, which is probably due to limitations of the hardware.
How can anyone defend tooie? It runs like complete dogshit.
The framerate issues are pretty bad, even on an emulator.
By the way, anyone looking to replay Tooie on an N64 emulator should use the frameskip removal gameshark cheat
8003F4F2 000D
8007913F 0001
D0081084 0008
8003F4F2 0002
Even on an emulator the game will refuse to run at 60fps due to its built in frameskipper. This cheat makes the framerate a constant 60.
Ooh nice.
Speaking of Tooie, why is there an extensive set of modding tools for Banjo Kazooie and not Tooie instead?
It would make a lot more sense to make the modding tools for Tooie instead since you have access to far more moves, gamemodes, and bigger levels.
I don't read Banjo or Tooty in an english accent because Banjo is undeniably a hick and by extension Tooty must not be british either
Fixing Tooie:
Remove humba and make mumbo the transformation guy
Remove playable mumbo
Allow Banjo and Kazooie to split up anywhere
Make notes singular again and place them well
Redesign TerrydactyLand so there is less empty space
Redesign Glitter Gulch Mine so it's easier to remember where things are
Keep in mind there may be moments where you have to disable the cheat. I noticed that the jiggywiggy puzzles to open new levels run at a crazy fast speed, making it really hard to complete them.
The cheat appears to work just fine for most of the game though. I completed all of Mayahem Temple with the cheat without any problems.
>Redesign TerrydactyLand so there is less empty space
You'd have to get rid of the Giant T Rex transformation too then. The whole reason why there's so much empty space is so it's easier to navigate the level as him.
Considering the giant t-rex doesn't do a whole lot anyway, that's fine by me.
I didn't mind it on my first playthrough but it makes revisiting Tooie a chore. I just find it annoying knowing that, when I enter a new level, I probably won't be able to do 50% of the stuff because I don't have the upgrades I need yet. If I see something behind glass, I'll never be certain what level has the back door to get to the other side. It's the kind of stuff that isn't an issue if the game is still fresh in your mind, of course, but if you're coming back for the first time in eight years or whatever it becomes a problem. For a game as big as Tooie it can get exhausting wandering around for what feels like ages looking for this shit.
Maybe I'm just an old man who's getting retarded in his old age, but I really like how I can pop the Kazooie cartridge and 100% it in a couple of afternoons. Tooie feels like I have to put up with a lot more busywork.
>Remove humba and make mumbo the transformation guy
Keep her as Mumbo's bitchy assistant or something, I liked her.
>insane level of backtracking
There is so little mandatory backtracking in the game that you can avoid it entirely if you just want to beat the final boss. 70 jiggies are required to fight Grunty and you will have 76 by Cauldron Keep if you collect everything you can in the first visit to each world.
Banjo was my dream addition to Smash but I fucking hate what it did to Banjo threads. Used to be some of the comfiest shit on Yea Forums where people on both sides had valid opinions but both agreed they fucking loved both games and some even loved Nuts & Bolts. In true Yea Forums fashion Smashtards and summer brought out mouth breathers to ruin everything
That is retarded and you are retarded
Those are the Yooka-Laylee arguments, too.
>he thinks summer somehow changes traffic
You're just as bad as the people you complain about
All of them, ano, all of them.
There is literally noone defending BT, because they all follow the bandwagon of BT hate.
You get used to it user.
I've already witnessed secondary faggots ruin Nier, Hitman, Yakuza, Metal Gear, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Xcom, Spyro, Crash, and Grand Theft Auto threads.
You just have to wait for the right time of day and you'll come across some decent threads.
Sure, but she'd have to have some sort of role.
>won't be able to do 50% of the stuff because I don't have the upgrades I need yet
I never had any problem with that, but probably because i was already used to that mechanic playing alot of metroidvanias before playing Banjo Tooie.
i played tooie back then,and though i couldnt tell why,i knew the game was not as good as the first one,still enjoyable somewhat,but lot of charm was lost
Tooie is shit, now fuck off with your e-celeb shilling.
How to best play Kazooie
>Beat each level in one fell swoop
How to best play Tooie
>Collect all but the backtracking Jiggy in Mayahem, then blitz the world unlocks for moves, proceed to do a proper sweep of each level in any order you desire
>secondary faggots
>Xcom
XCOM doesn't have secondaryfags. Nobody read the books. Are you referring to the nuXCOM games? Those would be newfags, not secondaries. The newfags weren't so bad as far as newfags go anyways. Lots of them eventually tried UFO defense and TFTD and they're to-date the only general /vg/ has ever had that managed to stay on topic and discuss the actual game, even in the gap between EW and 2's releases.
Now Yakuza on the other hand? Yeah, that got fucked up by newfags.
People who complain about traversing the world in Tooie are the same faggots who fast travel everywhere in Elder Scrolls
>muh resetting notes
Let's be honest, anyone that actually manages to die anywhere in BK other than the RBB engine room is a retard.
At least the faggot YouTuber is playing the game. Most of you came into this thread to shitpost about a game you haven't played in 5+ years. You're posting as if you're speaking fact about a game that you have nothing but foggy general memories about just like every other thread on Yea Forums
Kazooie 100% should have a british accent. Her character is based off of the bitchy old harpy stereotype common in British television programs.
I just got sick and tired of mouth breathing retards constantly posting about their ignorance of probabilities
>WTF!? How did my 99% shot miss? The game is shit!
>3 90% shots in a row. All of them miss.
traversing worlds in kazooie is fun because when you explore you immediatly get something for your efforts, in tooie you get the pleasure of seeing 500 dead ends you'll have to remember so you can backtrack later and realize those dead ends lead to another dead end that requires a different ability
Im sorry you have such a shit memory user
>I need instant gratification
Zoom zoom
Number of jiggies that require backtracking in each Tooie world:
>Mayahem Temple: 1
You need Bill Drill from Glitter Gulch Mine to access the Column Vault here.
>Glitter Gulch Mine: 2
You need the Springy Step Shoes from Terrydactyland to reach an alcove here. You also have to return to Mayahem Temple to break another rock there with Bill Drill, to save Dilberta.
>WitchyWorld: 1
You need Taxi Pack from Terrydactyland to round up the polar bear kids for Boggy's wife.
>Jolly Roger's Lagoon: 3
You need Glide from Hailfire Peaks to cross the water in the Smuggler Cove, Hatch from Terrydactyland to help Tiptup with his egg, and cleaning the pig's pool requires a variety of actions across a few different worlds.
>Terrydactyland: 3
You need Snooze Pack from Grunty Industries to cross the Stomping Plains as solo Banjo, although the jiggy for doing this counts as a Hailfire Peaks one. You need the Claw Clamber Boots from Grunty Industries to save the Oogle Boogle tribe. You can't get Dippy's jiggy until you reach Cloud Cuckooland and cause the water up there to fall into his pool.
>Grunty Industries: 2
Shack Pack and Sack Pack from Hailfire Peaks and Cloud Cuckooland respectively are both required to pass toxic waste here.
>Hailfire Peaks: 0
Unless you count the Stomping Plains one, which you can do before entering this world.
>Cloud Cuckooland: 0
Last world, self-explanatory.
Now, shut the fuck up, please. is right, most of you tards screaming about how bad the backtracking is probably haven't played the game in forever. It's really very little, and it's not even a bad thing to begin with. Tooie is the superior game, Kazooie is great too, but ultimately it pales and is unsatisfying in comparison because of how much stuff the game hands you for free and how small it feels after playing Tooie.
I recently replayed it with the 60 fps code and it was incredible.
The issue with this debate is you put the the two games against each other but then view them in a vacuum. Tooie is a sequel. It's not just a Banjo-Kazooie DLC pack. Everything is bigger and bolder. Rare expanded on the size of everything along with diving deeper into lore and world building. Coming off of Kazooie it works. Kazooie was this tight charming platformer and once you're hooked and invested Tooie cracks it open and gives you the surrounding BK universe to explore. There may be things that BK does better but I think for what it was trying to offer to BK players BT knocks it out of the park still and was impressively ambitious.
Technically GGM also requires split up for a jiggie but you can cheat that one with fire eggs or enough brightness on your screen.
Or Wonderwing. I know you're supposed to split up so one character can stand on the light switch and another can grab the jiggy but it isn't required, so I didn't count it.
Good post. Mind doing the same for Cheato pages and honeycombs for clarity?
I'd also argue that bullshit timewaster Jiggies like needing to hit a Mumbo pad to power the bumper cars, then coming back as the van to put a coin in the ride, THEN coming back as Banjo to play the minigames deserve a mention. They're harder to tally because they're usually not so clear cut.
Dunkey started it
I've never understood this idea that backtracking and exploration are a wrong way to make a game. Yea Forumss hateboner for collectathons and backtracking is almost and strong and irrational as their hate for linearity. I've always wondered if it's because people who post on Yea Forums are at an age where they no longer get a single game to last them for months like they did when they were a kid. So anything they look back on or come across nowadays that they feel "wastes their time" when it's all about crushing a game and moving onto the one is deemed bad and the wrong way to make a game.
Wow man this is so fricken dark it's almost not even a kids game
Tooie has more stuff, but I just don't like the level design in it and the design philosophy. Kazooie was a joy throughout while I had to struggle to bother finish Tooie. Levels are just larger for no reason than to be larger, and I still think the game would have benefited from a map.
I could play Kazooie right now and have a blast, while I have no interest in ever touching Tooie again.
Tooie in particular gets a lot of flak for it because the original isn’t structured in that way. People who like the first one come into the second one and get blindsided by jiggies like the fucking dinosaur train one or cleaning the swimming pool and, because they have the first game as a reference, rake Tooie over the coals for it. Also because those Jiggies really are bullshit.
>2 characters canonically fucking die
They got better though.
He didn't even say it was bad you idiot. He still said it was a good game overall, he just preferred Kazooie.
Funny how people always excuse the shallow platforming in Banjo games because of muh exploration and worlds but then despise the Banjo game that capitalizes on that
Bundled Notes are unironically what makes Tooie bad overall. It treats collecting Notes as a chore and just has them lined out in straight lines. They make absolutely zero attempt to actually guiding the player around and leading them into corners they would have otherwise not gone to. People can complain all they want, but Kazooie's tightly designed levels invoke a far better feel to them than Tooie overall. Tooie tries to go with the interconnected worlds feel, but doesn't even manage to succeed at that because of all the backtracking and all the warp pads and the silos.
nuts&bolts>grunty's revenge>kazooie>tooie
prove me wrong
Because it's a worse game.
Good job user, I couldn't come up with a more contrarian opinion if I tried.
Good opinion. And the note change is objectively worse. If anything Kazooie should have been the game with fewer notes, since it is smaller.
The shallowness of the platforming is exacerbated when you have to do more of it.
Exploration is no replacement for proper platforming sections.
I haven’t played Tooie in a while but I honestly can’t remember any platforming section as strenuous as the engine room.
Kazooie > GR >= Tooie > Nuts and Bolts
I'm dead serious too, I logged over a couple hundred hours in nuts & bolts as a kid, but the n64 games just kinda suck
I saw somebody else call Tooie a Metroidvania and I honestly think the comparison is very fitting, with gates and the train ALL over the place leading to other worlds. Look at all the inter-connectivity in Terrydactyland for the dinosaurs and caveman jiggies.
That's what I love about the game. Compare it to DK64 and you'll see how much better Tooie is at handling big worlds with lots of things to collect.
Kazooie's 100 Notes per level is absolutely fine because they're never hidden in super obscure locations and are always next to one another. Putting them into bundles of 5 in a single collectible is just telling the player that they didn't care to actually place them correctly.
Kazooie > N&B > Tooie > GR
Grunty’s Revenge is good for an isometric platformer, but it’s still an isometric platformer.
It is still a much worse at its job than any real metroidvania. The movement is not that great and the upgrades are not really that interesting.
Switch Tooie and N&B and this is my ranking.
But I still loved N&B. It was far removed from the past 3 games but good in its own right.
I'm not arguing that they should have note bundles, but that they did the exact opposite of what they should have done in Tooie. If anything that game should have had more separated notes.
It's literally a good game, but a bad Banjo game.
Note bundles were their solution to the N64's inability to save 100 individual notes, which was the biggest complaint about the first game.
as someone who actually watched the video he still liked Tooie, he just thought the original was better.
or do you people hear criticism and immediately start to panic because your opinion is different?
DK64 managed 500 individual bananas per level and came out a year before Tooie.
Plenty of bananas were bundled in balloons and, well, bundles.
Or to be fair, a few of them are stored in balloons. But there are still more of them.
I would like to see a reviewer go into detail about this game like it's pros and con without complaining that it's nothing like the first two games.
I can't find how many separate "banana objects" there are in each level, but I still assume there are more than 100.
Banjo Tooie is a slog to play and its length is artificially inflated by cross-world jiggies and backtracking.
>Good post ruined by a fucking frog
Banjo Kazooie is unsatisfying to play as its worlds are so small that you're barely really exploring them and so many of the collectibles are practically handed to you for free.
I remember as a kid, I'd play kazooie over and over again.
Only ever played through Tooie once, though.
hes an english hick
>dark eye rings
Seriously, what is the reason for Microsoft not at least trying to use the IP?
Why do some people want there to be some kind of civil war bullshit between those that like Kazooie and those that like Tooie? Can't we just enjoy the dead series in peace
No, because people that think Tooie is the worse game of the two are objectively wrong. They are the exact same games gameplay-wise but Tooie is bigger, better, more, and refined. And the only justification they can come up with is "game too big, brain too small".
You can also call it bloated, padded and less focused.
Tooie just has a different audience than the first game and it's strenghts are different. So stop calling the games objectively better than the other.
No I can't, because it isn't those things. And being super tiny and easy does not make Kazooie "focused".
Just look at how people either love or hate Industries and accept that people want different things from the games. The same things you like are not as positive for others.
Almost opposite for me. Kazooie has soul, but Tooie is fucking filled to the brim with soul. The writing and the little easter eggs just ooze charm in every interaction in ways that Kazooie hinted at but Tooie fleshes out.
I don't really see them having accents from any specific region, just cartoony voices.
Dude fuck off, I'm not the one who made a retarded shoddy review video after barely playing Tooie right after Banjo was announced. Go ahead and defend eceleb trash if you want, you're the real mouth breather though.
I understand the criticism it gets but Tooie will always be my favorite game. There was nothing I enjoyed more as a kid than exploring these big ass sprawling worlds, finding secret paths to other levels that I could use to solve jiggies, and finally figuring out how to get a complex jiggy that stumped me for hours. Kazooie is also amazing, but Tooie always felt like a real adventure to me. Plus the writing is amazing.
This. Tooie was just Kazooie but more. People that genuinely like Kazooie should also like Tooie.
>b-b-but the levels are too big! There's backtracking involved!
Oh no! You have to play the game more to beat it? How horrible!
Would the talon trot noise annoy modern gamers if threeie were ever made?
>Not liking brevity
The argument about which game is better cannot go anywhere since it is a matter of taste.
I wouldn't mind either, I can see them keeping it but I think just hearing Kazooie's quick steps on different surfaces would be good.
>New Mumbo hut
>Two floors
>First has Mumbo with pool for transformations
>Second floor has assistant Humba who will sell you spells
>Use spells at the places where Mumbo pads were
>Several pads around level to instantly transform back without going to hut