Nobody actually likes "precision platformers" and those who play them only do so for the privilege of gloating online...

This is the game journo's "nobody likes hard games, let me skip the gameplay" argument all over again, just limited to one specific game type.
Go be stupid somewhere else.

This type of game is fun but in my opinion they don't have much replay value. I liked Super Meat Boy and Celeste, but after I was satisfied with the progress made in them, I never returned.
Games where you need to respond in real time to challenges that encourage you to make different decisions and be creative in solving problems are often much more satisfying.

Games that have a “vision” behind them aren’t necessarily bad

Most games have some sort of “vision” behind them if their gameplay is divergent enough. DMC would not exist if Kamiya didn’t think of creating a game where you’re supposed to be a massive show-off, Mario and Luigi games would not exist if someone didn’t think, “what if one button controlled each character?” And so on

That said man I really don’t like super liberal games none of their stories are even good
I think the only fancy-art game I enjoyed was Obra-Din

I hate you retards who think that there needs to be a "theory of everything".
Different fields can have different approaches.
I don't even like precision platformers, just calling out your stupidity.

Name 5 non-linear 2D platformers of high quality.
Protip: There's none.

Attached: 1562569330040.png (864x872, 39K)

Mega Man 1
Castlevania 3
Earthworm Jim
Shatterhand
Viewtiful Joe

Pretty much just listed my favorite games in general.

Attached: Shatterhand.webm (640x480, 2.83M)

Megaman X
Super Mario World
Sonic 3
Rondo of Blood
Pitfall Mayan Adventure

Unironically you're right.

Attached: 1405287749499.gif (175x170, 616K)

Path of Pain got you down?

Watch This.
Battle Kid and the Fortress of Peril
Battle Kid and the Mountain of Torment

I like precision platformers when they are interesting and have good mechanics, see Umihara Kawase, N+, Cloudbuilt, Remnants of Naezith and Dustforce to an extent. They just need some depth, if they are designed so that there's only 1 viable path through a level and the difference between a good and mediocre player is JUST how consistent at doing the same thing they are then it's crap and I'd much rather play a rhythm game which are far more challenging and far more fun. This is why with games like Dustforce they are at their best in the early latter half when the levels start getting challenging but don't quite devolve into shoehorning you into that one route like the difficult levels like yotta do.

>making everything political
please kill yourself

i play iwbtg fangames because theyre stupid fun
i dont gloat about it anywhere though

funny because true

Most fanngames miss the element of comedy that was central to the original, sadly.

Some do it true justice or take it in a new direction that makes it so much better though.
>Boshy is a well-polished IWBTG
>NANG is pure platforming for the sake of it
>Ocean Princess for puzzle platforming fags
>Plenty of others

>hypocritical

I'd of used ironic. But also no, liberals do not value creativity and diversity based on their ACTIONS. They are liberal in speech but extremely conservative in performance, generally speaking

>conservative in performance

That's an insult, by the way. The definitions of 'liberal' and 'conservative' has changed drastically over the years so perhaps those need refining too (though I'm not going to do that now). By 'conservative' performance, I essentially mean uninspired, cold, or uninteresting

Celeste is easy. You can literally 100% the whole game in the game journalist difficulty and achieve the same as everyone else.

yeah if you use assists lol

also there's a tone of utter trash full of memespouting metahumor that Is my true guilty pleasure

CV3 is fucking bullshit and nothing can change my mind.

Attached: 130122-cv-07.gif (480x448, 17K)

I liked I dun wanna be anything 2 so I get you

I hate IWBTG for starting this fad.
Yeah, it was funny at the same sending your friends the link over AIM and having them sperg out. In no way is it good game design though and I don't understand how developers think they can copy it and make a good game, or how retards defend this shit. It's not platforming.

play the japanese version patched to english

Why wouldn't I? It works with achievements, I get the same shit people who don't use it do.

If it wasnt IWBTG it would be something else, the style was already a thing long before IWBTG came out, games like the original version of N for example already did precision platforming and far better. Flash games and rom hacks explored that style all the time because its attractive to newbie level designers for various reasons. Only a matter of time before a game like that took off. And Super Meat Boy did more to popularize than IWBTG anyway since it built a game around it and wasnt treated as an interactive prank.

You don't get the enjoyment of knowing you're better than the worthless retards and instead get to be a part of the people who are laughed at by a majority.

>this is your brain on jordan b peterson

>20 year old

NES AND SNES GAMES ARE THE SHIT

All 3d games are easier than 2d snes and nes titles and PSX games are harder than dark souls

Games are boring if there is nothing challenging about it.

Who's mario maker kaizo level hurt you, OP?

>All 3d games are easier than 2d snes and nes titles
Are you fucking stupid.

Ah another cia thread time to kill it

The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the 'agentur' of the 'Illuminati' between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.4

Who's falling for the fake division to unite the world!

It's the truth the easiest retro 2d game takes about the same amount of skill as the hardest game now a days

You mean kirby adventure for the nes

No they're not, the fuck are you on about? Even if we're just talking about single player games the relationship between a game's difficulty and the presence or lack of the z axis is weak. The only meaningful difference is that 3D games have multiple difficulty modes with normal being piss easy. Once you move past that there's loads of 3D games harder than the vast majority of snes/nes titles, like God Hand, Urban Reign, Ninja Gaiden Black/2, Super Monkey Ball, F-Zero GX and a fuckton of other racing games and much much more. Then you have late 3D arcade games that are in line with the difficulty of 2D arcade games, compared to which most NES/SNES games are baby mode. Once you start taking indies into consideration the list grows even larger because they can freely make games as challenging as they want them to be without worrying about anything.

There is no 3d games that have the same difficulty as a new or snes game.

Try to show me one and I'll tell you how it's wrong

I want a 3d game with retro difficulty.

lmao shitters

Attached: Untitled.png (1367x631, 45K)

All of those are easier than 2d games are you on crack

Fzero gx zero doesn't mean hard.

>somehow made this about liberals

Go back to /pol/

Lol super monkey ball
Lol ninja gaiden COMPARED TO NINJA GAIDEN NES
Lol god hand
Lol black

Lol I never ever played ps1 shooting games which the controllers would fuck with you.

Black is easy as shit compared to ecks and sever on GBA WHICH IS ANOTHER 2D GAME that's only a CLONE OF DOOM

I already listed a bunch. Even if you want to deflect with the usual "but they have checkpoints so they can't be hard!", go try to clear Monkey Ball arcade with the extra stage and everything and see how well you do. Or 1CC House of the Dead 4 on very hard. These are 3D arcade games, a style NES/SNES games imitated and dumbed down for the home audience.

I'm going to need some games as an example.

Hot take:
Proper level flow is more important than difficulty.

>itt: people who are shit at videogames and hate good video games

So the first one shows open gameplay while the second shows artificial difficulty. Thanks for changing absolutely nothing about the picture, retard.

Post your clear of story mode on Very Hard and you beating all the developer ghosts in time trials. Can do it in X too.
Nigger Ninja Gaiden Black/2 are miles harder on master ninja than NES Ninja Gaidens which you can 1CC in under 10 hours if you put your mind to it. Good luck mastering or even completing all the challenges in NGB/2 in that amount of time

I simply used the tools given to me by the game. It's the same as doing it without except I'm not voluntarily handicapping myself for no reason.

>very hard

Nah if it has a setting like that it dont count and that shit is easier than nes and snes games.

All of those are easier.

WHERE IN SUPER MONKEY BALL DO YOU NEED TO JUMP EVERY 2 SECONDS AND YOU DONT HAVE EXACT PRECISION YOU FALL OFF

ALSO MARBLE MADNESS SHITS ON THAT GAME.

WHY IN SUPER MONKEY BALL IS THERE NO ENEMIES THAT FLY INTO YOU OR YOU GOTTA BATTLE IT.

YOU HAVE NO OBJECTIVES THAN THE GOD DAMN TILT THE BALL

IF IT HAD A NES OR SNES BASED ACTION ID NEED TO CONSTANTLY TRY TO SURVIVE TO NOT FALL OFF

YOU LOSE
TRY AGAIN

TRY ANOTHER GAME

>tfw those so called casualized arcade games are harder than modern games

I just don't get the point of overly linear platformers. I'm not asking for free reign, but at least give me some options as to how I tackle a stage, like in Mario World.

Imagine being so shit at vidya you need to use cheats and still try to defend yourself

I said find me a 3d game with retro difficulty which is superior to the jargon you speak

Itt people born past 1994

>Nah if it has a setting like that it dont count
Yes they do, are you fucking retarded? Most SNES games let you pick easy mode in the options and bump up the default lives number anyway. And even if we ignore difficulty modes there's loads of arcade games
>WHERE IN SUPER MONKEY BALL DO YOU NEED TO JUMP EVERY 2 SECONDS AND YOU DONT HAVE EXACT PRECISION YOU FALL OFF
Have you even REACHED the master levels in Monkey Ball?
youtu.be/2chtGwwJQwA?t=1421
Go play this level if you can even reach it

This really highlights the problem, intentional or not.

Super Meat Boy and I wanna be the Guy just turned everyone retarded, this is the only kind of platformers many indies try to make now and it's just tiring. They're puzzle games disguised as platformers. You just have to learn the right rhythm and timing of button presses that let you through the game, after figuring that out you could probably do it blindfolded.

At least Shovel Knight managed to break through this trend a little.

Attached: 1436038942843.jpg (1171x1062, 188K)

I don't much get the appeal of games that are just memorization.

If I want to play a game that's just about pushing a button at the exact right time I'll play a rhythm game.

Attached: 1403127938786.jpg (512x384, 47K)

Ok you have the precision movement.

Where is the precision jumping
Where is the enemies that constantly attack you have to get away from
Where is the huge enemies and bosses that you get fucked up from

This has 1/4th of what a retro game has so this means it is 1/4th of the possible skill needed for the game

>jargon
Way to out yourself as a dumbass zoomer who just found retro games and spammed continues through a few then thought they were the HARDEST THING EVURRR. There's no point talking to you if you don't know what a 1CC is

This isn't even a hot take, it's the truth
A level being hard doesn't mean it's good or bad, it just means people aren't beating it

The typical player, even extremely high skill players, tend to enjoy a smooth flowing , clearly laid out experience with interesting mechanics over ultra-precision for it's own sake.

It's easy to make something hard, it's hard to make something hard and enjoyable.

>hurr why dis gam no hav x and y mechanic
Not all games have the same mechanics, monkey ball movement is miles more demanding than ANYTHING you'd see in a NES/SNES game besides maybe Umihara Kawase's grappling hook so it doesn't need gay peashooter attacks or bosses with simple pattern to memorize, it can get challenge simple from the tough mechanics and level design.

Play Arin's game, Yea Forums! He got on the spikeformer bandwagon JUST in the nick of time

youtube.com/watch?v=oM5dUS9_5dg

Maybe a bit. But flow, depth and difficulty are all very important to create a good level that stands up on many repeated plays

Tomba.
Tomba 2.
Megaman ZXA.
Wario Land 4.
Umihara Kawase.

You only dislike it cause you’re bad at it, Mike

>can't do the 4 things of retro games did at once and he thinks he has the gall to talk about anything being "harder" than retro games.

Let's be real

There is no games that have better difficulty than retro games

There is no MODERN GAMES WITH THE SAME FUN DIFFICULTY AS RETRO GAMES.

Woah...suddenly we have risk vs reward and the player can make decisions on whether they want to choose the fastest route or gather collectibles, thus making the game more interactive to the player instead of just trying to copy the exact set of inputs the developer made.

Attached: level design.png (1367x631, 47K)

>glorified flash platformer but now with PC Egoraptor attempting humor
Good lord why?

>Bullshit = Fun

That "one thing" has more depth and challenge on its own than the combination of all 4 mechanics in nes/snes games. Why are you talking about games you've never played? House of the Dead 4 is literally just point & shoot but it will obliterate you more than any nes/snes game ever would. And don't lump in all retro games together, arcade games are vastly harder than the nes/snes baby crap, and tons of arcade games are 3D.

Just say you’re bad

It's not cheats, it's an option in the game approved by the devs. It wouldn't give achievements otherwise.

What are some other good platforms that don't fall into the precision trope OP mentioned?

Attached: Platformers Recent.jpg (1325x1228, 687K)

I played VVVVV and liked it. That's really my one and the rest can all get fucked.

you're bad

based

based

Politics gets used to dominate venues of communication by the suicidal powers who hope to get overthrown. If they could they would commit suicide and leave us out of their death wish but they need to somehow try and sully the living.

When you get punched in the face do you stand down or do you want your hand held all the time.

We've suffered for 1000s of years games should emulate the striving for being the best in a game it should be bout how you can achieve something not many others can.

There is no freedom in hand holding.

This is gaming communism

The game would

Man fuck rainworld
>Go rambo on a group of trolls
>There's nothing there
>Have to walk all the way back to shelter.

>Trying to go somewhere
>Giant bird comes down
>Spear bounces off it
>Okay this is fine
>Lizard comes in from the only viable exit
>Can't spear the lizard while crawling
>Can't lure it out of the tunnel before the bird would kill me.

Run n guns as a whole. See Blazing Chrome, Bleed 2, Super Cyborg, Gigantic Army, Steel Strider and GUNHOUND EX.

Attached: Blazing-Chrome_01-02-19.jpg (600x337, 81K)

Shatterhand was great. There was actually an insane number of bots you could get.

That game would be 4x better if it had all those aspects but it only has one.

You lost and you still need to show me a game that's 3d and retro at the same time.

House of the dead fails because you dont move your character

Stop taking everything so seriously to the point you compare things to commies

Even what he hates comes off as take because it's a trendy thing to hate, but leaving him hanging is also trendy, each one of them sounds all alone.

Milon's Secret Castle
Iron Sword 1 & 2
Bubble Bobble
Blaster Master

That's five from the NES. Better than indie shit.

>That game would be 4x better if it had all those aspects
No it wouldn't be, that would just be dumb worthless gimmicks that detract from the focus which is playing around with physics, or aiming and shooting in the case of HOTD. Umihara Kawase super famicom followed your retarded train of thought and added shit-tier bosses and respawning enemies just because other games had them, ended up worse off for it. Saying that HOTD "fails" because you can't move is the same as saying that Megaman "fails" because you can't shoot in 8 directions, it's utterly retarded.

Easier games than retro games = communism

Retro games are peak gameplay and difficulty and humanity will never ever surpass that unless vr destroys the casualness of modern gaming

No. It would make the game 10x better because you would have to try 4x harder 1x for each new kind of challenge.

Super monkey ball could of been the hardest game of all time with these things added but I guess we will never have it now

It's already far harder than most nes/snes shite and you can always make it more difficult by simply going faster, so there's no need

Why do w*stern gamers loathe challenges in games in favour of self-expression, and shun tight linearity for muh free but empty sandbox approach?

Your missing my point.
It isnt harder than those games and it would be better of a game if it had retro additions.

Western indie developers are the only ones who make shitty flash game tier platformers, you seem confused.

Did you beat it with the master levels? Have you even seen the master levels? Have you even played the game instead of watching it on youtube?

Shut up and play Battletoads

As a man who likes the band KoRn who is nothing but linear self expression in music I love games with extreme difficulty.

I am now playing super robo kart 2 with the goal to become one of the best racers

I have buy this user hasn't.

That tunnel is harder than anything from super monkey ball

IWBTG was created by a westerner but its the nips the ones shurning out playthroughs and fangames 10 years after the fact.

Originally it was called cheat mode

OP has a slight point, many of the jumps in these kind of spike 'mazes' are already only solvable one way. Putting spikes on alternate paths does nothing but help guide the player on the angle they need to take.

That tunnel's a fucking joke lmao, literally babby's first rhythm game

and that's bad how, exactly

Anyone that played celeste knows it's nothing like this

it gives the illusion of added difficulty. Remove the spikes and you'd usually have the same jumps but instead of immediately dying when you fuck up, you wait to fall to your death or save yourself on a lower ledge. Only a handful of spikes truly make things harder, and those are often ones that could be replaced with walls.

>t.has never played battletoads
Come back after rat race

>instead of immediately dying when you fuck up, you wait to fall to your death
So it's bad because it saves you time, ok.

It's bad because instead of actually making the game more difficult it just pretends it does. Which means there's not going to be many actual difficult segments because it's appealing to casuals

>Boshy
>Appealing to casuals
Lmao

Actually removing the spikes is a good litmus test of if a level is actually interesting or not. If you remove them and the level is just a straight forward bore, then it's a shit level.

IWBTG does it right by making the jumps not already the limit of your jumps. For almost every spike maze you need to mess with your jump midflight, in casual games like Celeste the jumps are usually the limit of how far you can jump, the most complex it gets is making you tap jump instead of hold it occasionally.
You essentially turn your brain off in a celeste-styled spike maze because the route is already solved for you. Just follow the only opening and you will make it most of the time.

So you didn't play either boshy or celeste
Okay

As far as precise jump control goes nothing I know of even comes close to N++, that game really nails it with so many potential jump trajectories based on fine difference in input. A shame most platformers abandoned serious physics exploration in favor of the tight controls meme meant for casuals who want to pick up and play instead of learning something new and satisfying.

Meatboy and IWTBTG are both shit, so you have a point. Difficulty is pointless if it's absurdly strict, and it basically turns into Simon Says rather than game design and problem solving skills.

>le jump control = more difficult maymay
How much you wanna bet you never played Prinny 1 or 2

>not difficult only pretending
nu-difficulty

Here's an image, made just for idiots like you.
Celeste styled spike mazes are mostly standard jumps but with spikes added around the normal jump trajectory to make things look cooler.
IWBTG places spikes that impede the normal jump trajectory, forcing you to do things in a different way.

Attached: Untitled.png (792x209, 14K)

N++ is far harder

With self-expression I meant people wanting to express their very unique and special views and personality through the game, instead of overcoming the challenges presented.

So you never played either iwbtg or celeste
Okay
Any game would be if it had a billion fucking years to make 4000 increasingly difficult levels and bullshit challenges

>IWBTG does it right
iwbtg does nothing right

IWBTG is a shitty kaizo, but it does a few things right such as not making every jump straightforward and then adding spikes on the wrong trajectories to make you feel like a pro when your hand is being held.

>Any game would be if it had a billion fucking years to make 4000 increasingly difficult levels and bullshit challenges

What are you even trying to say? Yes if a game spends time designing challenging levels and game mechanics it will be more challenging.

>a game is more difficult when it's designed to be difficult
no shit, casual.

>let me just simplify and completely misrepresent something through an easy-to-grasp analogue
You should go into politics.

Attached: 235433124124.png (600x873, 113K)

And it's not anymore, the devs recognized it wasn't a cheat, that's why it gave me the achievements.

Imagine hating a good game so much you pretend like iwbtg is actually a good game.
There is a reason why I mentioned boshy originally and not iwbtg.
Because it's actually a game
There literally isn't a difference if the jump is the same, and celeste doesn't do the shit you are saying at all if you actually played it
Just because the last level in cloudberry kingdom is difficult doesn't make it a well designed challenging game
Forcing the player to do simon says but with platforming and spikes isn't fun or deep. Is it difficult? Sure, but it's also no deep at all.

But it does exactly that. You cannot beat the Tetris section if you deviate even a little from the linear solution, or in the rooms leading to mike tyson there is a plane that kills you if you break away from the preset path. And that's only a few examples.

iwbtg is trash westshit

>Just because the last level in cloudberry kingdom is difficult doesn't make it a well designed challenging game
Why are you talking about SMB? That game's worthless shit compared to N++, and it has hundreds of harder levels that are the same time far more deep too.

N++ is worthless shit compared to any real platformer. Seriously why is there always one autist in these threads that pretends that goddamn single screen flash game is good?

That's what makes it a kaizo. Still better than celeste

>prohibitively difficult
Even normal mode filters off people from easy modes, and those filter people from very easy, casual, or whatever you call those.
Begone, tautologer.

Nah it's better than the vast majority of them in every way besides the graphics, but it's not meant to be a casual throwaway game like Celeste so people don't like it as much

It gave you achievements so you wouldn't have your feelings hurt, little baby
I didn't say anything about SMB. Are you gonna pretend like N++ is the only good platformer in existence purely because it of it's heavy momentum based movement? Most people think N++ is floaty garbage lmao
So you literally just spouting random bullshit that applies to neither games.

Kaizo has actual mechanics borrowed from mario world.
iwbtg and celeste are both terrible westernoid trash.

Lol

Platforming is the simon says. The only way to get good platforming is to make the controls tight and skill based and do your best to make sure the 'correct' path isn't painfully obvious such as via a spike maze that clearly shows the only way forward

I just can't imagine what kind of metal defect you would have to be to enjoy staring at the same single color backgrounds for hours playing single screen levels without even any interesting game mechanics.

D I L A T E

Imagine ragequitting Celeste because it's too hard then praising N++ even though you only played like 1% of it's levels
Not at all, you have to be incredibly retarded to actually think this and to think that spike mazes are actually a thing in these games outside of obvious joke screens like the one in boshy

>Most people think N++ is floaty garbage lmao
Most people are retards with shit tastes who don't want to adapt or learn anything, what else is new? Are you actually appealing to popularity lol, what a joke

NANG is so good, couldnt stand boshy though
excellent taste, try a freeware platformer called bonesaw, made around the same time as iwbtg, top tier but a more classic platformer

why is it bad that the path is obvious?

You’ve got to go back, user

It's fun.

Attached: AHEM.jpg (640x449, 22K)

>without any interesting game mechanics
LOL are you faggots actually going to go there? How the fuck is a game with heavy, deep momentum based physics and many well designed, dynamic overlapping enemy types lacking interesting mechanics? I bet you play those boring basic bitch 1:1 movement platformers with air jumps, dashes and other generic shit and think you're getting anything new or interesting out of them. Embarrassing.

Because otherwise it would be too easy obviously!
>Meanwhile checks youtube for guides on how to beat N++ levels

lol rng is what makes the game good

Why is it bad if the path isn't laid out for you? If your game doesn't have incredibly tight controls, and if the platforming isn't challenging, laying out the path for the player like Celeste does is nothing but an appeal to casuals.

>specific game genres are political now
this is your brain on Yea Forumspol/

>heavy, deep momentum based physics
The movement in that game feels like such ass. Also the person defending a flash game that can't even screen scroll has no business calling any other game "generic".

Is that what you can't beat Celeste huh?

Who can't beat celeste? The game plays itself, and whenever it gets even slightly difficult there's a road of spikes telling you exactly where to jump.

>He can't beat Celeste
LMAO so much for you N++ nigger

To prove my point get a load of this guy. Instead of adapting to the physics system, learning its nuances and getting gud until you feel a sense of control, this little babby throws a fit, quits and calls the game bad. Of course anyone who isn't an impatient shitter will just get bored of "tight" 1:1 controls and want something with more substance to it

This was really the peak of the genre. Where do you even go from here?

Attached: wer.jpg (639x361, 28K)

An actually fun genre, which is anything else even simulators

>Dustforce literally has spike mazes for it's most difficult levels
Literally the worst game ever apparently

>Nobody actually likes "precision platformers"

This is actually true and why games like Mario and Hat and Time are way more fun and popular than your shitty Meatboy clone.

I'm sure I'm missing out by not adapting to garbage controls enough to play a single screen flash game. Truly my loss. Do you actually think shit movement is mechanical depth?

>He can't beat N++
LMAO so much for you Celeste nigger

except it doesn't. Why pretend you've played the game, celeste nigger?

OP is literally not wrong though. These games are complete shit and they aren't fucking platformers. They're trial and error """puzzles""" that you keep doing until you learn the solution.

Why do people hate Celeste?
No, the actual reason.
People don't spend this much time attempting to troll with a game they merely think is boring.
Which group of politics kids did it tick off?

nah, it's your brain on "games journalism"

Attached: bullshit.png (1126x468, 769K)

What's the problem with using the entire screen? It's not 1985 anymore grandpa, you don't need scrolling to display big levels because modern screens are large enough to display a lot of things at once. It's simple clarity. And they're "shit controls" simply because you're bad at them, on their own they have a lot of depth, challenge, variability and of course a lot of satisfaction when you become proficient. Bad controls would be 1:1, you see them once and you immediately master them, completely boring and one dimensional.

>What is infini difficult
I have played more n++ than you lmao

I want more momentum based platforming.
Sonic is not enough, I want more games where how you jump off of inclines matter.

Dustforce sort of has this with how you gain speed off of hills, but I want more takes on it. Megaman and Mario have been done to death.

Celeste does both of those things. Granted, there's probably way more of the second example, but I think there's enough variety in Celeste that it does a fantastic job as a game. Its real, major flaws that I don't often see mentioned are the more open ended non-linear sections, where you have to explore for keys to open doors in a hub like area. It completely breaks the pacing of the game, which is otherwise very quick. That's on top of a story that some really fucking rough patches and is pretty uninteresting half the time, so the pacing as a whole can get fucked up pretty badly. This is what makes the B and C side stages really good; there's no nonsense and no unneeded filler. It's just straight up stage after stage. As a platformer, Celeste is extremely well made, but it's surrounded by some other unnecessary shit. If you don't like the whole puzzle platformer or barely any wiggle room sort of thing, which is totally understandable, then that's fine, but I think Celeste does a damn good job at what it sets out to do.

N++, Remnants of Naezith, Umihara Kawase, Super Hook Girl, Super Cloudbuilt...maybe Marble It Up and Getting Over It? Though the last one is a meme game, pirate it.

>arguing semantics
>I'd of
lol

Screen scrolling was revolutionary in 1985 and easily the most important aspect of any platformer from that point on. Single screen platformer with bad controls = really shit game. Mario has momentum and doesn't have shit controls, it's called quality game design and programming.

i do like them though because i grew up on those kinds of games.

>All 2d is bad

>Screen scrolling was revolutionary in 1985 and easily the most important aspect of any platformer from that point on.
Yes you dumb idiot because that was the main way in which developers could create big layered levels since the screen resolutions were tiny back then. Now you can fit entire levels of NES games a single screen. Mario has very primitive momentum, N++ is an evolution of that concept and builds on it on many different ways

I've heard nothing but good things about this game, but I played it for about ten minutes and it didn't immediately grab me. I'll give it a more serious try at some point for sure.

That's because it's not a 10 minute kind of game like most in its genre, you need to spend some time getting used to the controls and different timings before you can really start linking up the different moves and getting a sense of flow from your actions

Damn, a whole hour later and user is still BTFO.

>2d platformer babies arguing over whose game is more fun or challenging
2d platformers are fundamentally boring and easy

Attached: 1535577466929.gif (849x479, 1.09M)

based

fpbp

Attached: 1539317912230.jpg (476x594, 59K)

Shut up speedrun tranny

>Now you can fit entire levels of NES games a single screen
If you want the game to look and play like complete garbage maybe.
>Mario has very primitive momentum
I think you mean actually playable without being a mega autist who enjoys repeating the same task for hours on end until they learn how to play with the objectively shit controls. This isn't even a case where it's like From Software's PSX and PS2 games where they have a weird control scheme, but ultimately it works once you learn it. N++ plays like slippery imprecise shit.

Hollow knight
Hollow knight silksong
Dust an Elysian tail
S3&K
Megaman X

>try to think of fun 2d platformers that were more than just time wasters
>all I can think of are platformers that were fun because of their non-platforming elements like porn games and roguelites
fuck

>If you want the game to look and play like complete garbage maybe.
LOL imagine being this much of a dipstink. How does seeing more of a level negatively affect gameplay? Are you mentally unwell? Is your skull filled with poo poo where your brains should be?
>I think you mean actually playable without being a mega autist
Spotted the massive casual who doesn't like learning new controls, this is ALL 1:1 controls worshipping fags without exception. Could have admitted it from the start and stopped wasting my time hahahahaha

>How does seeing more of a level negatively affect gameplay?
Because the sprites will be tiny and over 80% of the visible space will be unnecessary information since you're so far away from what it's showing you. It also means the level designers can't surprise you. Also what do you actually mean by "1:1" controls?

you're confusing fun with nu-fun, which is mostly just a false sense of fun.

ALSO LOOOOOL FROM SOFT CONTROLS
I CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP!
This retarded cunt is defending piss easy games where it takes 5 seconds to turn around with no added depth, or challenge, or any kind of fun lmaaaao

>Hollow knight silksong
Is that even out yet?

Impressively low IQ post. Using that example had nothing to do with difficulty.

brainlets who try to hide their anger by typing excessive LOLs fill my heart with so much schadenfreude

Attached: 1564963747165.jpg (800x664, 67K)

That's not negatively affecting gameplay you dork, that's just looking wrong at most, and level designers can surprise you in countless ways if they want to, there's no reason enemies can't spawn in when you're approaching and why level elements can't act unpredictably. But that shit's inherently shallow because you see it once and it's gone, pretty worthless overall. 1:1 controls means they perfectly correspond with your inputs without any other factors like physics to take into account, they are the easiest most braindead controls to program, and they are the easiest most braindead controls to learn in a game.

>N++ plays like slippery imprecise shit.
git gud

Yes it does, how does it "work out" if the controls are just bad for the sake of it and don't add any challenge or depth to the game? The games could have just as well sped up enemy movement speed and turn around times and balanced them around much quicker turns, in fact later games like Shadow Tower did exactly that among making other improvements. They "work out" for you because they're easy, not much to it

Now I will play your game.

Attached: s1-ghz-act3map.png (5630x768, 778K)

>lets use shades of blue to label things on a blue background

>level designers can surprise you in countless ways if they want to, there's no reason enemies can't spawn in when you're approaching and why level elements can't act unpredictably.
Yeah if you're purposely trying to make a bad game.
>1:1 controls means they perfectly correspond with your inputs without any other factors like physics to take into account
So good controls then. Then again Sonic and Mario have physics but they control just fine, it's just N++ is a shit game that itself controls like ass. Who doesn't like Mario or Sonic? There are no "1:1 controlsfags" just those with taste and those that like N++.

>how does it "work out" if the controls are just bad for the sake of it and don't add any challenge or depth to the game?
I wouldn't know, you tell me.

>N++ is a shit game that itself controls like ass.
But it's fun.

Attached: 1560055607681.jpg (524x479, 54K)

>Yeah if you're purposely trying to make a bad game.
Massive cope after another non-point got obliterated
>Then again Sonic and Mario have physics but they control just fine
So does N++, nothing wrong with its controls. It's "slippery" in that your character has weight but that's part of the fun and challenge. What's wrong with games giving you a satisfying challenge to overcome? It's the best kind of challenge too, because unlike challenge that just comes from level design gimmicks, this is a general skill that you can apply to all levels. The reason you like Sonic and Mario is because you played them when you were a kid with an open mind and a willingness to learn, now you've grown into an impatient retard who rage quits when games expect something from you. And that's the simple truth

>Massive cope after another non-point got obliterated
Look at this and tell me it's playable or remotely good in any way. That's what a real platformer looks like with no scrolling.
>What's wrong with games giving you a satisfying challenge to overcome?
Overcoming bad controls isn't satisfying at all.

See

Dustforce was and remains the greatest platformer ever made. Precision platforming is fine. Super Meatboy wannabes are not.

kek
It's slippery because he ran into spikes and died.

>That's what a real platformer looks like with no scrolling.
Poo poo noggin strikes again. No shit the game was designed for scrolling, it would need to be redesigned to work with a single screen. This doesn't apply to games made from the ground up to be single screen. Same would apply in reverse, if you have a game designed around you seeing the entire screen adding scrolling would break it and you'd have situations where you're getting shot from off screen and ambushed by shit you don't expect because your visibility suffers.
>Overcoming bad controls isn't satisfying at all.
True, it's a good thing that N++ has good controls then. Do you even have any standards for what good and bad controls are besides how they feel in your first 10 minutes of playing?

>it would need to be redesigned to work with a single screen
And the level design would obviously be different then.
>Do you even have any standards for what good and bad controls are besides how they feel in your first 10 minutes of playing?
You shouldn't have any other metric. If the controls still feel like shit after a whole 10 minutes they must be garbage.

>pick up guitar
>hit strings for ten minutes
>sounds like shit
>wtf how does this work, this thing is a piece of fucking garbage

>If the controls still feel like shit after a whole 10 minutes they must be garbage.

With this you're saying that controls can never be challenging and deep, confirming what I said about you hating learning and adapting to new mechanics. Never share your thoughts on game design again.

Attached: 1459787834864.jpg (312x312, 55K)

>return guitar
>purchase electric guitar that comes preloaded with several of my favorite songs
>get to jam out to my favorite tunes
umm, sweety? Yeah, that original one WAS garbage. Why should I need to learn how to play?

Video games are not an instrument.
>controls can never be challenging and deep
Well they certainly can be challenging, but that isn't a good thing. Depth and complexity don't come from sloppy controls.

fun is just a buzzword anyways who gives a shit

>Video games are not an instrument
You are not a heterosexual

Attached: 1551465866990.png (450x300, 56K)

>Video games are not an instrument.
Yeah that's why it's a comparison. Is poo poo brain struggling to grasp abstract concepts?
>Well they certainly can be challenging, but that isn't a good thing.
Guess we better notify racing game developers, they've been doing it wrong but here comes user to tell them that they're dumbasses for having physics and complexity in their games!

>modern platformers
I think you mean "I wanna be the" wannabes

Racing games don't have challenging controls though. You turn the wheel or joystick to turn and it responds the way it should without any sloppy impreciseness.

I never played N+ because it felt a bit more floaty and slippery than the original, which I finished. Is n++ a return to form at all?

No idea, I never played the first two and only just started on this one.

The amount of people that actually took your bait makes me unironically support Hitler more.
Because the caliber of people who feel the need to make a witty reply to your bait genuinely need to be culled from normal society.
t. A Jew

You have no idea what you're talking about, ever heard of basic concepts like over and understeer? Weight transfer? Speed and throttle control when cornering to maintain a good slip angle and not slide? Braking and acceleration zones? Tire wear?

Shit man
I wish Pike was telling the truth, I'd trade christianity for satanism, paganism, atheism or whatever if we get rid of jews and muslims. Who the fuck wouldn't?

Yes but those are all mechanics and not controls.

Oh yeah, I should note though that I have a low tolerance for bullshit and easily get disinterested within 10 minutes like user up there and I'm sticking with it and loving it. I've never had a death that felt unearned due to the way the physics works, it always feels clear what I could have done to survive instead.

20 IQ response, they are the physics at work that heavily affect whatever inputs you make. Just like N++. Or what, you think N++ somehow doesn't register your inputs or some shit? What an idiot

Yeah but with a racing game you're controlling a simulated car with an analog input device. In N++ you're controlling a ninja that ironically moves incredibly imprecisely with a digital input.

>already backtracking
And? We're talking about abstract gameplay concepts not their presentation, if you're only capable of seeing the presentation then I'm sorry about your disability. If someone replaced the ninja with a heavy metal ball would the game suddenly be good in your eyes? Ridiculous.

just accept you got btfo user. Your control vs mechanics argument couldn't stand up

>If someone replaced the ninja with a heavy metal ball would the game suddenly be good in your eyes?
No because that still would control like shit. It would contextualize it a little better though since those aren't known for precision.

Any argument your tiny little brain makes to prove that the controls are "shit" can just as well be applied to racing games, and it will be just as wrong there. You can play racing games fine with digital inputs btw, with some it's even preferable (Trackmania top players all use keyboard iirc) and some early console racers didn't have analog support. Tough shit.

>Any argument your tiny little brain makes to prove that the controls are "shit" can just as well be applied to racing games, and it will be just as wrong there.
Platformers and racing games are about as far apart in genre as you can get.

Wrong especially in an age where platformers have rewards for meeting times and leaderboards, effectively turning them into single-player racing games that use human or humanlike characters instead of cars. But I thought you believed in universal game design rules and called certain control styles bad? Or do they change based on an arbitrary label now? Tsk tsk

>in an age where platformers have rewards for meeting times and leaderboards, effectively turning them into single-player racing games that use human or humanlike characters instead of cars
Things really are that bad these days huh?

>dodging the question when backed into a corner
It's been fun user but it's clear that you ain't got shit so I'm done

true though
>play exactly how the devs want you to, no fun or creativity allowed

As shit as sonic adventure 1 & 2 were, the freedom you were granted for many of the stages was great. Being able to break levels and skip entire segments was perfect. Many of those routes were intentional or at least the devs showed they were aware of them, which only made it even better because they could have easily taken the celeste route by placing killzones blocking all the fun away

Mega Man X
Mega Man X2
Mega Man X3
Mega Man X4
Mega Man X5

Crystal Caves
Gods
Iji
Blackthorne
Magicland Dizzy

>Yea Forums is so casual it can't even handle jumping from one platform to another

this is a redneck facebook comment-tier post

True shit tho, you basically only ever have 1 way and 1 way only to beat a level.
It's terrible level design.

fpbp

>viewtiful joe
>platformer
nigga what

>listing off metroidvania's as platformers
is Yea Forums actually just a retarded board for retarded retards?

>X5
>high quality

Attached: 1462808951534.png (300x162, 29K)

Yea Forums suddenly loves defending being a casual shitter as soon as a difficult and fun modern game becomes popular.

Environmental Station Alpha
Fancy Pants Adventures

Attached: 2UYq5Fa.png (319x239, 16K)

Yea Forums has always been full of casuals that love to pretend they're not.

>Games where you need to respond in real time to challenges that encourage you to make different decisions and be creative in solving problems are often much more satisfying.
Yeah, Celeste. Youre just slow

Same could be said about any souls game

Bloodbourne gets a pass because muh atmosphere

The game literally branded your save file with a "RETARD HERE" caption. You are being mocked on your own volition holy fuck. You are a KEK

You sound like you've never played one. Fuck you don't sound like you play games at all.

>made this pic like a year ago, forgot about it
>it starts to pop out on Yea Forums threads now

This site works in strange ways
Btw, I liked Celeste. The image was just a product of a shitty Side at the end which went for this design, while the rest of the game was doing perfectly without it.
Also introducing moves in the last two sides was a bit bullshit.

>anything that's not kirby is too hard bu-hu
git gud asswpies

Precision platformers are the most fun I've had with videogames in the past 10 years

Attached: 1552959117729.png (2400x1216, 557K)

Are you talking about 6B or 7C?
Chapter 9 is out now btw. It does so some of the spike maze bullshit but overall it's fun, new mechanics and mandatory wavedashes keep it fresh

There's nothing wrong with this format if the entire game's theme is based around precision platforming and if the controls are just right for it.

>Megaman 1
Noice

Imagine playing an easy baby genre and getting mad when someone tries to inject some difficulty.

Depends on the game really. I don't mind games that are a bit shorter and sweet to the point like meat boy, I can play for like a half hour, crack out a couple levels, and be fine. Celeste has some longer levels which feels more like a slog to me. IWBTG just feels like trash, I prefer boshy if it's gonna be in that style.

>made by THE Tasselfoot
I'm curious just by that alone