Can you find a definition for "fighting game" that

>gets concise explanation
>blames semantics

Bruh, smash does have low, high and overhead attacks

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you can use them but it's not the core dynamic of the game which is beating the snot out of the enemy until 0 hp

>gets concise explanation
>explanation means argument
Thats not even an explanation, you are just throwing shit.

Also Smash isnt a figthing game, get over it
Its better

>involves whittling the opponents "health" bar down to 0 in 1/1, 2/3, 3/5 (etc)
Except that's not a standard in fighters.

Define "core"

the funny thing is that many people want to argue that smash isn't a fighting game in a way so that it's seen a worse, less complex game. the truth is that smash might not be a traditional fighting game but it is way more complex than most fighting games due to: the sheer freedom of movement there is, the ridiculous amount of matchups, and that combos are not strict memorized chains and are positioning, weight, and percentage dependent.

this whole thread exists because of the guy in the other thread that said smash isnt a fighting game.
this thread is just proving him right with how badly you want it to be taken seriously.
there are basically no combos (oh wow 2 hits -- put that shit in a combo video!!!) and they dont require timing or practice at all. there's no high/mid/low game. and the people that take it seriously have to alter the settings so that more than half the game is edited out. you have to change timer/items/stage and shit before you can even play a "competitive" match.
the game is trash.

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The reason people don't consider Smash a fighter is the main mechanical difference of killing by launching your opponents off screen vs. beating them up until they run out of health. Smash is about knocking the other guy off a platform, Tekken/SF etc. are about dealing damaging combos. This is why some people call it a platform fighter rather than a regular one.

If you released Smash Ultimate, but the only game mode is stamina and the only maps are boxed in with no blast zones, everyone would agree that it's a fighting game (albeit a shitty one).

I mean, Melee combo videos are far and away much more entertaining than traditional fighting game combo videos.

>Bruh, smash does have low, high and overhead attacks
it doesn't. pick ryu vs ken and try any normal while ken presses the block button. your standing normal, crouching normal and overhead will not land because smash has no high/low blocking game. its a very basic aspect of all fighting games.

i'd argue that smash is a fighter obviously but its not a traditional one

>A derivative mode (i.e. the game dynamic was not build around this mode)
You could say that maybe in melee, but now in ultimate the game treats it as one of the main modes, they went as fas to touching up the mode for better balance this time and being able to use stocks as well. Besides it's not like the game changes the gameplay in this mode

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If fighting games worked online I'd be happy to prove to you that Smash is little baby shit. But fuck you, fuck the whole genre and fuck the FGC for not demanding better.

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Party games are great for social settings

>there are basically no combos
youtube.com/watch?v=i6TL9E3zZ0k

I literally played an hour of samsho online last night, the fuck are you talking about

There really is very little functional difference. If you play smash properly you know the exact percentage you can kill at which basically makes that the other guys health meter because as soon as they take a hitbat that level they automatically die.

>smash has no high/low blocking game
You can literally move your shield to a low/normal/high position since melee, not doing so or doing it wrong will cause you to get hit. Hell, even since melee some of the best characters are the ones that take better advante of this, just like melee marth, meta knight in brawl, etc. This is impotant because what works different in smash is shielding, having a sphere that protects the whole character, but shrinking as it gets hit and making vulnerable to more attacks as it gets wker.

The majority of those aren't combos.

most of those combos aren't guaranteed because they rely on the opponent teching late/ the wrong way or not teching. and they're also dependent on life percentages.
you think those are combos, though, so you probably dont understand why it matters when i say they're not guaranteed.

>I mean
Negros disgust me so fucking much

>Multiple hits strung together before hitstun runs out
They're combos

On the contrary, it's a big functional difference. The types of moves/strategy you use are very different when you're trying to kill vs. just racking up damage to make a kill more viable. There's also low% kills from spikes/gimps and the fact that some characters have much better weight/recovery than others. Fighting Little Mac is a completely different game than fighting ROB or Snake in a way that has no analogue in traditional fighters.

many of them aren't multiple hits strung together before hitstun runs out.

> there are basically no combos (oh wow 2 hits -- put that shit in a combo video!!!) and they dont require timing or practice at all. there's no high/mid/low game.
Instead of high/mid/low defense game, Smash has DI for its second layer of defensive complexity.
Most combos rely on being in your opponent's head to a degree, rather than basically being raw muscle memory once you hit the opponent with a poke of some kind.
> the people that take it seriously have to alter the settings so that more than half the game is edited out
If you consider items and wacky stages to be "more than half the game" then you're the closedminded one.
Playing the game like that is entertaining for all of a few hours.
Playing the game with that shit off is what makes it last, because it relies more upon skills that are enjoyable to see put to use.

Wut

The game was created from the ground up to be like fpbp
you can have stupid shit like metal blade in the corner of one of the stages but its not an ancillary way to win the round

>option
Again, the game wasn't built around this as the main dynamic. You're playing chess on your bathroom floor because it has black and white tiles.

Remember how rocket jumping was an accident that opened up the game to a whole new level initially?

>and not involving perchance environmental etc hazards
Nigga, do you realize how many beloved fighting games would not pass this test under your autistic definition?

Some of the most important fighting games that helped define the genre had "ring outs" to them.

I augmented the definition with

>option
Yeah what about it? smash is a game that gives you plenty of options, it's not like you have to get you wayy hacking it around so it can be playable, if the games allows you to play in that mode and considers it as important as timed or stock battle, what's the issue? as I said before, the game got balanced too around this mode

A game revolving around fighting which was not developed or published by Nintendo.

>soulcalibur and virtua fighter has ringouts
nice party game, FGCucks

Why is condition B necessary?
why is it so important to you that smash not be a fighting game?
are you so much of a faggot that having a game casual enough to be a party game in the same genre as the game you like causes you butthurt?

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>party game

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>game where the 99% of what you do is fight
>not a fighting game

the autism on display here is painful, so what would you call it? A jumping game?

Yaknow I think mortal kombat might be a walking game because the characters walk from side to side, I consider the fatalities to disqualify it as a fighting game hurr hurr. It couldn't possibly be a variation of the exact same genre hurr hurr

Party game isn't a genre, but there is an important distinction between "games that are good to play in a vacuum" and "games that are fun to play at a party"
Smash bros is the latter, and is also a party game.
>tl;dr things can have more than one tag retard

>smash is not a fighting game because it doesn't fit my arbitrary and incredibly specific definition of what a fighting game is

by that logic any fighting game that slightly strays from the "traditional" formula is not a fighting game. which means pretty much every modern fighting game would not be a fighting game.

kill yourself

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Smash is also good to play in a vacuum.

>Smash bros is the latter, and is also a party game.
fuck i meant fighting game

your asshole is a party game you faggot

>implying people don't play fighting games like tekken at parties

>IMPLYING PEOPLE DON'T PLAY WHATEVER MULTIPLAYER GAMES THEY FUCKING WANT AT PARTIES MAKING COD AND QUAKE A FUCKING PARTY GAME

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Smash being more "casual" doesn't mean it's not a fighting game or it's inherently bad.

The fighting game genre is one that is objectively more niche and thus harder for people to get into and dev's to sell to audiences. This is why some traditional hardcore fighting games like SFV have gone out of their way to be more casualized and dumbed down.

If entry level fighting games didn't exist then the very hardcore games many of you love will actually continue to be dumbed down because there will be no point of entry for the genre and community.

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I think you misunderstand. The point of this exercise is to prove that Smash is a fighting game and the distinction that is isn't would be entirely arbitrary.

The fighting game I like whilst the one you like doesn't count.

Smash is a fighting game. It's just a really bad fighting game. Great party game though.

>go to a Lan Party
>Age of Empires is now a party game
>Counter strike is now a party game too

yeah fucking Doom is a fighting game because two players can punch one another in an arena
or Double Dragon on NES because it has a mini mode where you can 1v1
>citing Wikipedia
take your belt off and hang yourself you knob

A fair opinion that has a lot of truth to it.
I say this as a Smashfag myself. I love the franchise but Ultimate is the first time I can really see the franchise actually evolve into a truly good fighting game since every other installment was either too broken or too stupid to for me to take too seriously beyond dumb fun.

Yes, they are fun to play with friends, it also works on competitive level, just see evo 2019

Any game that adheres to the template and mechanics set by Street Fighter 2 (2D), Virtua Fighter (3D) and Virtual On (Arena).

Literally every single fighting game acknowledged by the FGC and FG develoeprs that released over the past 2 drcades have followed this rule

I think Ultimate is a step in the right direction, but Melee already arrived at the destination. Brawl and 4 were just massive steps back that took a while to recover from.

Except SSB has a significantly higher skill ceiling than Street Fighter.

doom arena FPS, double dragon is a beat em up.

The core gameplay of smash consists of a player fighting other players or CPU fighters.

It's a fighting game

>citing Wikipedia
yes. a large number of people edit that page and all agreed that smash is a fighting game. It follows every accepted definition of a fighting game. The only people that disagree are whiny bitches like you

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>smash has no high/low blocking game
Objectively incorrect since there's shield stabbing which can be mitigated by moving your shield higher or lower depending on where the hit is coming from which is identical to how blocking in a standard fighting game works.

>Melee already arrived at the destination.
Melee fell in the "Too broken" category for me with way to much usefulness and meta revolving around glitches and exploits.

I will never tire of fgc (read:sf) fans being so assblasted about a crossover game featuring bing bing wahoo becoming more popular than their mainstay that they refuse to "offer" it a seat at the table even though smash carried itself for over a decade without official representation. Just remember that while you were insulting melee you willingly chose to play sfv lmao.

Then why call smash a fighting game then instead of being a esport or some shit.ayou can't deny that smash can survive on its own without evo can you?

>any game that DARES to deviate from this super specific formula is not a fighting game

changing a health bar to a percent mater and adding platforming mechanics suddenly makes it no longer a fighting game

Thats like saying the second you add a parkour mechanics to an FPS it stops being an FPS. Ridiculous.

Because it is a fighting game you dunderhead. Yes, it can clearly survive on its own without EVO.

At this point I am convinced a lot of the melee hate you see is because it's still got an active community whilst whatever game they played was dropped immediately for something else.

yea but im not gonna, do your own homework idiot. pretty obvious what a fighting game is

Correct. This is the truth to it. A fighting game is only a fighting game in a traditional sense when it adheres to these specific ruleset. Why do you think the FGC is adverse to drastic changes?

>Why do you think the FGC is adverse to drastic changes?

Autistic people don't like change

Not exactly. If that were the case then the traditional fighting game developers would drastically change their formula to have a change of pace, but that isnt exactly the case is it? You can go ask SNK, French Bread, Harada, Capcom or the guys at ArcSystemWorks but they know their design philosophies. The most drastic change in recent years is the introduction of autocombos and comeback mechanics.

OP is so fucking mad, platform fighter is a fine description for Smash and Smash-likes that everyone with a brain can understand. Why not just accept that title and move on?

Smash doesn't even adhere to half the shit in that wiki description. The stages are wildly different with some even scrolling or destroying themselves, there are no special attacks with complex inputs (direction + button would be a Normal Attack in traditional FGs), there's barely any combos at all, and the combat isn't even particularly close. Being able to outright run/fly away (like Puff versus Ice Climbers) would be impossible in SF, Tekken, GG, etc. because Smash stages are huge by comparison.

For beginners, what matters is the skill floor, not the ceiling.

Better question: Why do Smash players care if it's a fighting game or not?

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