4 more years

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>Blizzard is going to split the player base
>Blizzard is going to create a new division to make Classic+
Never going to happen, classic WoW is something that allows Blizzard to give people something to do after people finish with the content on retail, you will see as the phases of classic WoW are released weeks after the new retail WoW patch has launched and everyone has done everything to do in it

>Have you ever thought about adding servers for previous expansions as they were then?
I think there was some famous answer to this question that Nostdrones kept spouting what was it?

retard retail does not have any playerbase in the west it's like 70% chinks if classic keep going like this Blizzard will do more for classic and classic+ inevitable
wow your shit small server has a queue wew kill yourself zoomie WotLK is shit.

>small
12k slots
cope

Why wait when you can play it now? For free? Y’know instead of giving money to the people that fucked everything up?

>retard retail does not have any playerbase in the west it's like 70% chinks
Chinks have always been the main player base in WoW, Blizzard constantly relies on the Chinese market, who do you think Diablo Immortal was for? Mobile gaming is huge in China, Blizzard has a long standing relationship in China and willingly conforms to the states requests

Just another reason not to support them

I used to play it for a long time, then that server added Cata. I just wanna play it on an official server

Dalaran WoW has a dedicated wrath server.

just play private servers fucking blizzdrone

It's either OSRS style Classic support or fuck off. Anyone who wants expansion reboots can go play a private server. Every one of LK's patches was short on content and ruined by gear treadmill cancer thanks to raid versions and LFG. It inflated gear gains to the point of literally ruining the game.

>It's either OSRS style Classic support or fuck off.
Lol. #nochanges

Go back playing Northdale.

I will readily mock Wrath like I've already done in this thread, In fact, taken as a whole in its blizzlike form, I might even make an argument for it being the worst iteration of WoW. Although that comes with a caveat of Wrath also having some great qualities and some of the flaws having an easy fix: Wrath actually is the version I've played the most on private servers, I just quite after grabbing Death's Demise, or if the server loses its appeal prior to that (such as lacking the 200% sort of buffs T7 content in order not to be suicide-inducing, or Ulduar release being delayed for more than a few months).

However, this isn't the popular idea. In big polls on major gaming websites it's almost always the #1 rated iteration of WoW (when it's not, the #1 rated one is usually TBC, not vanilla - one such example was Nostalrius' own post-mortem survey) and its popularity on private servers is a pure fact. Moreover, there wasn't a loud cry (or private server interest for that matter) for vanilla servers either until Nostalrius shutdown which has framed the subsequent narrative in a manner that is difficult to hijack without great coordination: lack of discussion regarding post-vanilla versions is due to 1) coordination problems - no shutdown of a major server that would launch a storm of coverage even in the mainstream media, 2) a well-justified assumption that they are already upcoming in due time and it makes sense to wait for servers to progress to this state naturally.

I just want a comfy 5.2 patch realm to relive HM ToT progression

based and durumupilled

I must also thank our Classic crybabes. They were our vanguard. They showed us that with enough crying they can get what they want. So I will cry for wrath till I get it.

mop was peak raiding honestly

b-b-but the pandas!!! they are childish!! My cow is manly btw.

Aren't you guys paying for those inactive servers right now?

BC was peak raiding, post BC there was 10 man versions of everything, normal and heroic modes, at the end of Cata they added LFR and in MoP with the release of SoO they added flex and mythic raids, every raid post BC was meaningless because they maid raids accessible to everyone

honestly I don't care what the majority wants the majority made wow shit in the first place splitting the community is probably the dumbest idea ever.

Only reason raiding was hard back then, because people had no information.

Also since ICC every new tier of gear has invalidated the previous raiding tiers, including dungeon gear

People were well aware of everything in current raiding, such as pre-raid bis, mods, etc

Yeah they were so awere back than that they need 180 days to clear rag, meanwhile now they needed 6. It's funny how every claim you shitters made about WoW got disproven by the release of Classic.

faggots playing on 12x and sitting in que
meanwhile im enjoying 1x grinding

>Rag
>BC
How retarded are you exactly?

you know 1.12 is a nerf for the entire content and a buff for all classes?

The majority didn’t do shit. The crying minority did

Icecrown server was pretty damn good. I might have enjoyed it a bit more if exp wasn't scaled.

Also the insane amount of multiboxers, that shit was retarded.

I prefer endgame content, but even with x7 its still pretty long, took me more than 24 hours of /played

>It's because of the different patch I swear!!!!
>It won't be the same with BC!!! I swear!!

>raiding is everything
t. retail cuck

I really really hate this
>wrath was the most popular expansion by far
meme. It’s a straight-up fabrication.
If you look at subscriber counts, you can see that wrath was the first time the game EVER plateaued in subs, and what little growth it did experience was nothing compared to that seen in vanilla/tbc. The best way to explain it as follows:
>activision and blizzard merge, giving blizzard a never-before-seen marketing budget
>new players flock to the game during wrath
>oldfags quit the game en masse when naxx is cleared week 2, heroics are piss easy, and there’s nothing to do
>number of wrathbabies joining and oldfags leaving is more or less equal, resulting in equilibrium and the first-ever plateau in subs
>by the time 3.3 comes out, oldfags are the minority
This simultaneously explains the wrathbabby phenomenon, where legions of retards will defend wrath to the death because it was their first expansion so they have never experienced the kino that was vanilla and tbc.

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LFM 3 MAGES SM CATH AOE FARM

I stopped playing p servers to play retail because retail is the faster paced game over p servers. What's your take away from this Yea Forums?

I fully expect private server players to clear BC raids day one because in BC you could reach max level in less than a day, but comparing people who have played either classic for 15 years or BC players who have played for 12 years to average player is not only wrong it's retarded and the reason why there are so many raid difficulties today to cater to either the very high end or baddest of bad players, instead of having a single difficulty and having the player progress over time and get better, current raids in retail are cleared the day they're released, if they released the raids the day of launch as they used to people would be done with the content in a day, there's a reason they started to time gate content

You can argue what classic playerbase half-life is going to be (after the tourists quit): perhaps it's a month, perhaps it's half a year or more. The exact outcome isn't relevant and I will make no personal predictions here but without new content, whether that's the expansions or OSRS style content, the playerbase WILL be split anyway at some point... to the minority that play and the majority that won't. There's no escaping this.

Moreover, there's a third option that I would consider the best of both worlds: releasing revamped "classic" versions of the expansions. This would involve changes that would keep them more in line with design paradigms seen in vanilla (such as no flying or arenas being introduced, or unique class/spec roles and lack of counterproductive "bring the player not the class" philosophy retained from TBC in Wrath - in a sense vanilla itself, as it works in practice, is as homogeneous to begin with because most specs don't really do anything but be bad versions of others, but the idea of unique roles is "vanilla-like") AND let people experience better, kinda sorta new versions of the most beloved content (a boon for TBC/Wrath fans) AND have content that's closer to vanilla than what neo-Blizzard would now produce (a boon for vanilla fans, over new OSRS-style content). Hell, even neo-WoW has lots of quality bits content that is simply ruined by retarded mechanics that surround it.

You have ADHD

Return of the Lich King is coming next year.

Please someone explain me why retards hate flying and arenas.

Maybe. As a warlock main farming 100 soul shards for the idiots that cant find their way around to only press show bolt at any level of end game content literally bored me to tears. At least on retail I have many options for what spell to cast at a given time. That and mythic + is pretty tight if you can get over 15

Because they think it killed world pvp when it was battlegrounds that started its demise, after battlegrounds were introduced the only high end world pvp you saw in vanilla was someone ganking lowbies, once you reached max level in vanilla you stayed in IF/SW unless you were doing a raid, having flying at 70 in BC didn't impact on anything because battlegrounds already existed and you would still compete with the enemy while levelling, even at max level there was world pvp in BC thanks to zones like Halaa in Nagrand that offered special rewards for killing players in that area, having pvp gear tied to arena is what put the nail in the coffin of world pvp

Holy fuck you got your faggot ass fucking destroyed. Go neck yourself now.

AKA:
>PLEASE PLAY RETAIL AGAIN WHILE WAITING FOR CLASSIC 2

The boomers cry louder than millennials it seems

So how these people envision high end pvp without arenas? Don't get me wrong, I am PVE fan. Only time I did arenas when a friend need 10 matches to get some points.
B A S E D

>So how these people envision high end pvp without arenas?
They don't want high end pvp, WoW devs have themselves said that adding arena was one of the worst things for the game and that WoW never should've tried to become an e-sport, which is true, arenas fucked over the RPG element of the game because people wanted classes to be 'balanced' classes being balanced is the antithesis of an RPG because it leads to class homogenisation and renders classes redundant

youtu.be/9MNFWhCw8dg?t=235

I want classes to be balanced without pvp too

vanilla is shit

BC/WOTLK are best, prove me wrong.

>"btw i hate raid, raid killed WoW"
>*pays $15 per month for 10 years just for raiding*

A class is supposed to bring a special element only they can provide, meaning some will excel in certain areas while being average or mediocre in others, there's nothing wrong for instance if a rogue is better at one boss encounter than a warrior

home

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>Never going to happen
Blizard said it themselves they are adding BC content in an altered manner so they would be "Accepted by the Classic playerbase".
Classic+ is coming and it is a good thing.

High Elves on the Alliance
Goblins on the Horde

I mained a lock...they never gave that much of an issue.

It's possible to have it. Like during wrath. Almost all specs were viable for a thing. You could pvp on sub, you could raid on combat or assa. It worked. Same with warrior: arms pvp, prot tanking, fury dps. It worked. It was balanced. Meanwhile getting chain CC-d is not balanced.

Dream on fucker. We will have BC and then Wrath.

>shit and then shit
later homos

Yet he has quit around cata and is promoting another game?

Plans can change sure, but my "dream" is an actual quote from Blizzard while the assumption that we are going to get servers from past expansions is just wishful thinking from your part.

Classic playerbase isn't the #nochanges nosttards.

It depends on the exact versions of raids being used, and whether you progress starting from level 1 or if you have Naxx gear from vanilla.

The fact is, if retail players managed to beat some bit of content ten years ago, it would now be easy for contemporary players who might have 10k+ hours of personal experience (including experience in that specific content) and access to billions of hours of collective WoW know-how the community has accumulated on top of that. I think this should be intuitively true a priori, but if you need any proof, provided a demonstration just a while ago, and you'll find even extremely custom tuned content going down in TBC/Wrath private servers. If retail players beat something, contemporary players would beat it the first try with parity gear, and even if they thought it mathematically impossible, contemporary players might well find some loophole and do it anyway.

However, TBC has some caveats for this. First, Naxx gear is actually really good (it has as much raw stats as ilvl 115 blues) and while there are some exceptionally itemized TBC pieces (or lack of any good itemization in vanilla for some specs), if you have Naxx gear, you are basically "raid-ready" the moment you ding even by the standards of intended progression. Conversely, on FRESH servers people start with far lesser gear and no professions, and since the gap between contemporary players and 2.0 ones isn't as wide a gulf as it was between people doing T1 firsts (the fact that 2.4.3 power levels actually are pretty much unchanged to 2.0.3 due to loss of elixir stacking compensating for buffs while 1.12 talents are vastly more powerful than 1.1 also changes things), encounters like pre-nerf Gruul and Maggy will be legitimately tough and might not be doable the instant you have 25 70s (never mind 65+s).

> Almost all specs were viable for a thing
I'm talking about classes, retail WoW you play the spec, not the class, a combat rogue in retail is a completely different class to an assassination rogue, they have different abilities, this is something people hate, you should be able not have to be a specific spec to play a class
Are you talking about the AMA the classic WoW devs did where they said they will see if the community wants 1.13 or BC? They never said they were changing BC, their whole philosophy and the player bases has been 'no changes' they even disabled a LFG addon that was made for classic WoW because they were so committed to enjoying the game as it was, this will be no different for BC

That wasn't the case in wrath,

>watching classic wow slowly make the exact same mistakes retail wow did all over again

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Ultimately, If you do have Naxx gear, also accounting for the gear you inevitably will manage to get while questing and in the process of getting attunements done, blizzlike T4 would be done instantly and I would be surprised if we didn't see Kael and Vashj killed within the week of Outland opening. Without Naxx gear, the former will be done without a doubt but while the latter still seems within the realm of possibility, I wouldn't automatically assume it will definitely be done. After all, you don't just lack Naxx gear: Kael was first killed 5 MONTHS after TBC launch and that's one hell of a gear gap. By the second week there would, again, be no question about it.

However, TBC launched with raids still unfinished and Blizzard fucked with the content a lot during progression. Kael and Vashj being ridiculously bugged are well-known (Advisors gaining threat while dead and going straight for healers once revived, that sort of thing), but a lot of other bosses were also ridiculously overtuned but not necessarily "broken" in the sense of difficulty coming exclusively from mechanics not working as intended. For example, Morogrim Tidewalker spawned spell reflecting charging water elementals in addition to his murloc adds (web.archive.org/web/20121110001558/http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t11183-kill_order_ssc/p5/). If you aim for "pre-nerf post-bugfix" state of tuning, there's a target of pre-world first versions that were not historically killed, and bosses like Morogrim might actually prove cockblocks even for contemporary guilds, even if they have the benefit of progressing from vanilla, definitely if you're playing on FRESH servers.

you spelled wrath wrong

Which is why people dislike WotLK, as well as the fact it introduced LFG, 10 man version of every raid, different raid difficulties, invalidating previous raids with heroic ICC dungeons, dungeon quests inside the dungeon instead of having a quest chain in the zone the dungeon is in that leads to the dungeon

Did they really say this? I saw the Q/A with the dev team and they said it all depended on how popular classic still was in a year or so's time.

What I'm afraid is that people will burn out by then, when in reality classic+ would be super popular.

>ulduar and...

In relation to retail, retail raids are INTENDED to be doable the first week, but require hell of a lot of wipes to figure out small optimizations (if Blizz wanted bosses not to be killed, they could add an extra zero somewhere and it'd literally be impossible). In contrast, legacy raids necessarily weren't, and doing the bosses with very many resets of gear less can under some circumstances be enough to compensate for greater skill levels. For example, Yoggy+0 would definitely be killed the first week despite surviving months in retail: the cockblock here was tactics and the encounter rewarding extreme class stacking in ways that retail guilds of the time weren't organized enough to do. In contrast, a boss like Kael'thas probably was more down to numbers than guilds being able to employ workable tactics (bugs also prevented any prior kills, but it might not have been killed much earlier even if they were not present), and I'm not 100% sure if there's enough optimization potential to compensate for 5 month gear gap. I'd sure as hell give it a try and kill him the first week, but I could see it being delayed to the second.

He's right though.

MC was always piss easy 1.12.

>when in reality classic+ would be super popular.
What can be added that would make it popular user? Everyone says “oh just go the OSRS route” but what does that actually mean for WoW?

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pandaland was shit

>durr who needs melee when warlocks are godmode

There was like 2 quests that started in the dungeons. The rest were q chains that ended in dungeons.

>introduced LFG
LFM 3 mages SM cath aoe farm
>10 man version of every raid
implying this is somehow bad
>different raid difficulties
implying this is somehow bad
>invalidating previous raids with heroic ICC dungeons
NOOOOOO QUELDALAR KILLED THE GAME!!!! CATCH UP GEAR IS BAD!!!!

I'm not sure to be honest. For example another 40 man raid. Maybe another 20 man like zul'gurub only harder. More pvp instances, maybe some world pvp incentives?

Certain raids from BC for example could be added and redesigned for classic such as kharazan or mt hyjal

Maybe fix ret paladins? Various class changes to make them better without increasing the level cap?

>another zone for 55-60
>another 40man/20man raid or just remodel Karazhan
>new races

by Naxx gear scaling was getting all sorts of fucky, so a t4 wouldn't be the thing to add. Rather, I can see a 2nd raid in the vein of ZG that's a bit easier and can add some meme spec items or alternatives to other gear pieces. Perhaps that ZG-2 could drop arcane resist gear or something and then you could open Classic Kara where you need a shit tonn of arcane resist to clear. They could also finish Hyjal and do whatever they want with it. WoW's definitely not as conducive to new content like OSRS though. Muh sandbox vs themepark.

>invalidating previous raids with heroic ICC dungeons
Why is this the thing that gets people so upset when this has been happening since BC?

>of ZG that's a bit easier
that's a bit harder*

>They could also finish Hyjal and do whatever they want with it.
It would be cool, same for the drowning pit by outside of Kara

>There was like 2 quests that started in the dungeons
Every dungeon had a quest at the start of it
>LFM 3 mages SM cath aoe farm
It's called socialising and interacting with the world, instead of just doing a dungeon with some random you don't talk to and will never meet again
>implying this is somehow bad
Raids should be rewarding and difficult, people will choose to take the easy route, why reward someone who put in less time and effort?
>NOOOOOO QUELDALAR KILLED THE GAME!!!! CATCH UP GEAR IS BAD!!!!
It completely invalidates the previous raid and all your accomplishments, why even bother doing this raid tier if you can just skip it and next patch you will get better gear, it's the same reason why thunderforging, now titanforging is bad, gear is the main incentive to do raids, gear has been trivialised because of dungeons invalidating previous raids and titanforging giving good gear to undeserving players

>It completely invalidates the previous raid and all your accomplishments
As does every raid tier dude what the heck

The key difference I guess is that when there's a new raid tier you have to work a lot trying to clear it. You also mostly NEED the gear from the previous tier to clear it properly, so the new raid didn't invalidate the last raid because you needed that progression.

The ICC heroics could be facerolled too easily and invalidate all that work.

>More endgame
>And more endgame

Honestly just add some more professions or what they did in WoD with treasures scattered around the world. Low level world bosses too

Because it never happened in BC, Magister's Terrace was released at the end of BC, 4 main patches after Karazhan, and the gear was the same ilevel as Karazhan gear, not better

Flying in TBC specficially actually wasn't that impactful. Supermajority of all PvP encounters take place when you're contesting some resource, not when you're travelling from point A to point B. TBC had these elements in equal quantity to vanilla: it's just Skettis Mafia to Devilsaur Mafia or Elemental Plateu to Tyr's Hand. There's also a concern of flying allowing you to skip the world, but seeing as that you have to be max level and you might not be able to afford it without doing most quests anyway, that fear isn't realistically realized. On top of that, TBC uses flying as an actual mechanic, and enabling Outlandish world design. For TBC, I would actually consider it a pro.

HOWEVER, that still leaves the non-zero amount of PvP encounters that take place during travel. These are also the encounters that make the world feel like a dangerous place. Moreover, if incentives to fight for any other reason disappeared (queuing to dungeons, no farming), that would leave no world PvP whatsoever. The same can be said about every single class gaining escape mechanisms that will allow people to just fly away even in the hypothetical they were caught. Or world actually being designed with flying in mind (Storm Peaks) instead of promoting more compelling boots on the ground design. That isn't to say it's impossible to avoid these pitfalls because TBC itself mostly avoided them, but flying is like Pandora's box. Once opened, you leave the game vulnerable to these flaws, and the game would ultimately have been better without that risk.

Identical logic applies for arenas. I don't like the concept of instanced minigame PvP, but you need not be obliged to play arenas so they could be harmless past-time that pleases a segment of playerbase with almost zero work from the developers. However, at that point there's an incentive to balance the game around e-sports, which happened in Wrath.

>cant pvp while flying

mage slow fall has entered the chat

>It's called socialising and interacting with the world, instead of just doing a dungeon with some random you don't talk to and will never meet again
+
oom
ty, thanks for the run
>Raids should be rewarding and difficult, people will choose to take the easy route, why reward someone who put in less time and effort?
lesser difficulty lesser reward
greater difficulty greater reward
>why even bother doing this raid tier
Because you enjoy raiding?
I mean I used so much CC in classic... oh wait I didn't. Nobody uses CC and we faceroll instances.

>lesser difficulty lesser reward
>greater difficulty greater reward
That isn't what happens in retail or since ICC, you can get better gear do easier content because of RNG or by waiting a patch and doing a heroic, unless you're saying that heroic 5 man dungeons are as hard as a 20 man mythic?

I also think Titanforging is retarded.
>Since ICC
Are you retarded? You think a 25hc piece isn't better than a 10 man normal in 3.3.5?
>by waiting a patch
That's called fucking progression you tard. Patches progress the game. If you don't like tiers then why even bother having raids?

>You think a 25hc piece isn't better than a 10 man normal in 3.3.5?
Forge of Souls heroic gear ilevel is 232, Ulduar 25m is 226, with the weapons being 232, are you saying Forge of Souls was harder than 25m Ulduar?
>That's called fucking progression you tard
Progression by not doing the previous content? How is bypassing a raid and doing a 5 man dungeon instead to get the same or better gear in anyway """progress""" you retard, it disincentivises the player to even raid, the whole point of raiding is gear, if you don't have to raid to get gear then it becomes pointless

Tfw 4.0 saved wow only to be absolutely destroyed by 4.3

What you don't understand? Patches invalidate the previous patch. That's the whole point of patching the game. There is nothing wrong with catch up gear.

>That's the whole point of patching the game
The point is to add new content, you couldn't even do the new raid in BC without having become attuned to it by defeating the last boss in the previous raids
>There is nothing wrong with catch up gear.
What part of it invalidates the previous efforts and disincentivise people from raiding all together don't you understand? There's a reason why this was added in WotLK when all the other casual features that ruined WoW were implemented

You might as well say it begun in vanilla because "of the Frozen Wrath" greens, never mind items introduced in DM or extent 5-man items buffed in some patch were improvements over T1 epics. Hell, classes were much stronger in final patches of vanilla so that's an indirect nerf too, while TBC power levels remained essentially unchanged (only more balanced). Some recent blue post relating to classic content stages specifically mentioned they were intended as catchup gear, although that should have been obvious as it is.

Anyhow, there's several considerations here:
1. Wrath catchup mechanics invalidate prior content. ICC 5-man gear offers ilvl232 loot, same as TOC10, and ICC10 is tuned for that gear level. Indeed, since you also get 245/251 emblem loot (on top of ICC25 BoEs, VoA loot, etc), in a sense you can OUTGEAR final patch raid without doing any raid content at all! The fact that TOC itself is so pathetic it's substantially easier than Ulduar EVEN WHEN DONE WITH TOGC25 GEAR (as opposed to ilvl 213-226 gear it was tuned for) is already besides the point. Or that there's eventually +30% buff to everything in ICC on top of the catchup gear.

In contrast, TBC and vanilla catchup mechanics don't remove the benefit (yeah yeah, you could go about Val'anyr, or Nebula Band from Algalon10 actually being pre-ICC BiS, but with Wrath itemization in 95% cases ilvl is what matters, and it's simply not time-effective to do harder content for a chance for trivial upgrades when you could do easier content for big ones) from doing old raids. In fact, they kinda revitalized them. Would people have continued running Karazhan as actively as they did if it didn't give useful badges? Well, it actually is a fun raid to do so someone would have, but not nearly with the same gusto. The problem with TBC progression is T6 being easier than T5 and that's the factor that allows you to "skip content", and even then there's an incentive to do T5 because it's time-effective way to get upgrades because you don't get handed out the latest gear instantly and any additional source of gear allows you to gear up faster, and diverse itemization actually means there are SWP BiS items out there in addition to temporary upgrades.

blizz still hasnt learned that 14 months of 1 raid tier is bad for revenue

2. TBC and vanilla catchup mechanics require appropriate level of effort and/or skill. If you only ran the easiest heroics for badges, it'd take eons to get full assortment of SSC badge gear (which wouldn't cover full slots). If you also did harder heroics like Arca to get badges faster, then you'd definitely have earned them, and if you did Kara for badges then, well, you're doing actual raid content. In contrast, in Wrath you could stay in capital city, queue to """""heroics""""" that your randomly assigned tank could likely literally solo, and get a full kit the same day you ding 80.

One possible exception to this is Merciless Gladiator gear for some classes (melee classes for example tend to like it better than casters because they need less hit) because you can effectively get it from AFKing in BGs without slightest contribution, but ultimately it takes quite a long time to get as well, and for most classes it's hardly better than well-itemized blues so it's a long way off from invalidating content.

3. Catchup gear is actually a good thing. Casuals are who keep the world lively and cogs of economy running and they need carrot every once in a while. Unless the game is rapidly growing with constant supply of new players, without catchup gear the only people any newbie would have to raid low-tier content with are the scrubs who are stuck doing it for a reason with no realistic way to be worth trialing by any more progressed guilds. Without such supply of players, the only place high-end guilds can recruit from is each other, and guilds cannibalizing each other isn't desirable. Etc. Catchup gear is bad only on condition of it 1) invalidating previous content, 2) being too easily accessible, and neither vanilla or TBC catchup gear meet these criterion while Wrath catchup gear does

if you didn't earn Immortal in the first week of wrath, you are SHIT at WoW and should SHUT THE FUCK UP because your opinion is worthless

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I know it's hard to be a retard, but sometimes plese try to think. It's okay you are spouting the good ol' memes that vanillashitters spread. It's okay user. Let me explain to you in detail:

IF YOU ARE NOT LAGGING BEHIND YOU DON'T NEED CATCH UP GEAR.

So if you ever need it, this means you are a filthy casual and you are everything wrong with the game according to your logic.
Meanwhile in reality Cataclysm killed WoW.

1x or 7x? Just wanna know

New races
New endgame content
New zones for RPfags to rp in

pom + poly :^)

I had a mage alt and I used to gank people flying over the WG vendors while afk. Good times.

It's not JUST catchup gear though. It's still upgrades to make later raid content easier. Even though you're running BWL doesn't mean you have no upgrades in MC, so MC doesn't just die. Unless you release a 5 man dungeon with gear better than MC.

There's a question of whether skipping raids is "fair" or not. Personally, I would not play at all if I didn't play "seriously" and that involves having the latest gear. I also don't particularly gear what others are using, I have the edge of almost certainly greater competency on top of top-end gear. However, there are some people who do and while I think that stance is rather petty, they too play the game and you shouldn't include mechanics out of spite.

Instead, I think a more pressing problem is the fact that catchup mechanics actually reduce the amount of relevant content for bad or new players. Imagine a new player joining in 3.3 Wrath: ralistically, they won't have a chance of doing the expansion's best raid at all! Or, you could replace "new" with "bad": with more sensible progression mechanics direct and indirect nerfs (such as additional gear sources from catchup gear) would slowly allow bad players to brute force content they previously were unable to do, and eventually see everything. However, if there's faceroll arficial difficulty mode of the latest raid (10-man normal with 30% buff) AND you get gear so powerful you actually outgear the latest content while getting marginal to no benefit from old content, which raid do you think they're gonna do? Hell, while not such a big deal in older expansions, in neo-WoW you also skip the main plot (the main plot is awful of course so you're not really missing out, but it's just silly and anti-climactic to get a quest to search for Illidan's soul while in the same time you are working for him on Argus.. what Argus?).

Incentives in the game should be shaped such that players get a full, enjoyable, experience that actually makes them learn and play the game, not so they can mindlessly put on /follow in dungeons where literally nothing they do matters, learn nothing, and then suffer from content drought because they did the latest raid on their chosen difficulty level.

its icecrown and has 7x leveling
lordaeron has 1x but no dungeon finder

Dumb wrath babies, wotlk was the beginning of the end.

4 years until wow becoming shit

Classic+ is unironically more likely than TBC, which is saying a lot because Classic+ absolutely isn't happening.

TBC is completely off the table, though. It would never generate the hype that classic did, since you would need to be level 60 to even participate and most normies and zoomers will quit by 40 if they even get that far. Plus the classic leveling experience felt fresh and new since it's been gone since Cataclysm, while everyone fucking hates Hellfire Peninsula because they've been doing it for ages.

they already announced they're doing TBC retard lmao

Are you fucking retarded?
Rag took 180 days because
1) the game was new. not the expansion. THE GAME.
2) it was 2004, so information (specially: how to learn to play) wasn't spread as much as today
3) point above, everyone was so fucking bad at the game, people who couldn't understand mechanics like "go away with the bomb". today's players are much better
Don't know why I'm even replying since you're just baiting but anyway, I bet there are some faggots who truly believe this
Classicucks deserve castration

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That ain't happening. Maybe TBC, but if you're gonna go that far in might as well just make Classic go the OSRS route.

#nochanges

>and at T9 and T10 gear levels they're not top DPSers either.

He's forgetting 100% ArmorPen DK.

You fucking kidding me? Most everybody I've talked to about Vanilla/Classic servers is going with them as a stepping stone to Wrath servers.

>after all these years it's still alive and kicking
Nice, I'm about to have some fun again.

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there are long queues between 13-23 european time

The only thing that people didn't like about Wrath was LFG. Case in point, the subscriber base jumped up to 11mil during Wrath, a number it hadn't hit before and hasn't hit since (Though it came close in Legion). And, barring the addition of LFG during the LAST patch of the expansion, was the best the game has ever been.

At high-end ICC gearlevels Unholy with SMourne is the top DK DPS spec but none of them are top SMourne or not, and Unholy doesn't itemize for ArP. Granted, that's averaged across encounters and UH does better on other encounters (for example, on custom tuned private servers people have gone for Unholy/Fury/Ret cleave stacking for Lich King, and on Yoggy+0 Unholy is the spec you stack to DPS Immortal Guardians), but overall DKs just aren't that good at high gear levels and they are generally behind locks in T7/T8 (that being with 3.3.3 talents, which WotLK classic would presumably use for all content, similar to vanilla).

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Wrath zones are terrible, wrath dungeons are ugly and boring (the entire WotLK color palette is absolutely disgusting, everything but Ulduar is blue and brown), DK doesn't belong, the classes played kinda neat though

>We'll never get Legion class design with old school talent trees

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new talents are better, more choice

Cata literally had the best class design AND talent trees

Kill yourselves retards.

>Game dies a month after naxx releases
Nice.

Reminder that MoP class design with old-school talent trees and pre-cata spell/ability ranks would literally be the perfect WoW

Don't you have a scarlet monastery to aoe farm?

>pre-cata spell/ability ranks
God no, those were shit

>hurr i want everything for free
Fuck off, having to pick and choose which abilities to rank up as you levelled was fucking cool. Why should I bother getting backstab on my rogue if I'm using maces or swords? Why should I rank up the damage on my interrupts when I don't need it? Plus, gold sinks are good as they keep the economy down-to-earth.