Thoughts on Vanillawares new tower defense game 13 sentinels? Here's some gameplay and the female cast

Hasn't this game been in development for a shit long time?
How did it end up being a menu simulator?

>he announcement trailer came out in 2017
Wrong
youtube.com/watch?v=8i6e48wG9Q4

The only complaint they follow was about Dragon's Crown having jackshit story. 13 Sentinels is a story driven sci-fi drama with gameplay too.

Vanillaware's style only works with fantasy games. This looks bland as shit desu, and I'm not even talking about the gameplay.

Not quite how I'd describe it but the action parts are very simple.

that "gameplay" clip you're talking about was point and click minigame, it was a visual novel from the start

Yeah but where are the pictures of food

The graphics and character design are so god tier but Vanillaware apparently fun out of budget and they apparently had difficult creating a science fiction story and game because they spent mos of their company history in fantasy worlds but trying to create a science fiction mecha game for the first time apparently caused the main dev serious writer's block.

It's sad this game will never reach its full potential and not be released the way Vanillaware wanted it to be reached.

My bad then, the gameplay was still shown in 2017.

No, it's almost identical to the full gameplay we have now.

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Story really isn't Vanillaware's strong suit

The on-foot portions are up there with Muramasa for beautiful backgrounds. But that's all I got.

>Next video is Mario Maker announcement video for the Wii U and a recap of the best PS4 games like Bloodborne
Damn, that long ago? How did they spend so much time making this? It's disappointing seeing how this ended up, especially after how good Dragon's Crown was and that port of Odin's Sphere.

This is looking to be their worst game since Grim Grimoire. I hope it doesn't sink them. Because man this looks niche as hell and not very good.

only the graphics look similar, watch the clip again , it was a point and click minigame

I'm pretty sure it was finished but they were trying to find some sort of gameplay to tack on to it because it's not what people thought it was going to be from vanillaware

Granted it still isn't what people thought it was going to be from vanillaware.

He's literally moving the coursor over a group of enemies to attack them. The difference between the old trailer and the new gameplay is that the game now pauses and let's you align your shot.

>trying to find some sort of gameplay to tack on to it
I was kinda hoping that they were going to do that thing where you take 2D paintings and apply them to a 3D model for the robots and they'd let up play the giant animated paintings.

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>just a bunch of generic females staring blankly
Look, the reason I liked VanillaWare's games in the first place is because they had a hell of a variety in their character/creature designs.

What like Super Robot Wars?

Look at it in motion.

hes moving a cursor over enemies and clicking on them to blow them up with missiles, that is a point and click minigame

>コックオンできます

I know it actually says "lock on" but still.

No I don't think SRW ever did it, their giant robots are either 2D or just 3D, they never did the 2D painting on 3D model style thing.

Basically you take a 2D image like this and project that onto a 3D model so the 2D image comes to life, like that actual model I posted in the previous post.

Attached: 13-Sentinels-Aegis-Rim_2017_09-29-17_016.jpg (389x484, 160K)

cute chub

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that's called cell shading user, look up the transformers game by platinum if you're looking for some of that style

Even for a mobile game, it looks like shit, zero appeal.

It is a mobile game...right?

My bad I thought SRW GC did it but then that's just 3D. Though to be honest looking at the trailer I really don't know if doing it would have helped their game at all (other than looking neat). The game really feels kind of barebones.

Look, it's obvious at this point that you clearly made up your mind and want to go with it no matter what other people say. The gameplay was in 2 years ago already, it was obviously not a VN. I've shown you the evidence, you refuse to believe it. I can't fucking help you, but ultimately you are wrong since the game we now have has the gameplay in it.

I'll put my cock on Yuki if you catch my drift. Cute Delinquent girls are perfection.

Not the same thing, that's how the light interacts with the model. Instead of producing gradients it decides a point between the shaded and shaded point and draws a crisp line instead.

When you project a 2D painting onto a 3D model you get a similar effect but the shading lines don't move. I see how you got confused though.

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It's a TD? Nice I liked GrimGrimoire even with how rough it was. Looking forward to seeing how they improved

Looks fun. Can't wait to get my hands on it.

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It looks more like it's primarily an SRPG where you move units and issue commands from a menu and watch animations of their attacks but with TD structural touches like levels based around defending against waves of ever increasingly difficult creeps.

the games been in development for almost 6 years now the first trailer was in 2015, it was a VN and i was going to play it on my vita when they released it, from the response they got after it was announced as a VN they changed development into some sort of gameplay added on to the game and it's obviously gone through multiple ideas, you obviously don't know what happens to games in development hell

cell shading originally is a 2d cell applied to a 3d model

>Level the entire city

I guess protecting the people isn't really a concern here.

It's "cel", and no cel shading was specifically about the shader itself because it functions differently than traditional shaders, it started with Jet Set Radio and it wasn't just textures applies to models, the way the game treats light interacting and shading the was fundamentally different. Pic related, it shows the same character with traditional shading and cel shading as you can see it's how the light interacts with the model not the model itself.

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Looks like a clusterfuck of a rts and a rpg.

i would rim her aegis
AYOOOOOOOOOOO

ah well maybe i'm wrong but either way i think my example of the transformers game looks like the image you posted or maybe you mean rotoscoping I dunno

>rotoscoping
Rotoscoping is totally different, that's when you draw over live action as a reference for animation.

Attached: rotoscoping.gif (600x353, 2.04M)

Just like EDF but without the drops to 5fps

>TWO glasses girls
You have my attention.

Is this basically World Trigger?

You can rotoscope 3D models, give an example of what you’re talking about in any other form

>Looks fun.
It looks kinda lame to me, I feel like this looks like a weird Japanese import game for the PS1. I remember playing a macross game that did the "look at all the missiles you can lock onto a target and fire off at once" thing and it was cool then but doing this kind of thing from a menu now on the PS4 doesn't seem like the most engaging or impressive way to do it. This is a PS4 exclusive right? It really doesn't seem to be taking advantage of what even a base PS4 is capable of let alone a Pro, and this is such a late release for the PS4 to boot. Hell, Dragon's Crown feels like it was half a lifetime ago. I don't get what they were spending all this time on.

Maybe you’re talking like Paul Johnson’s stuff youtube.com/watch?v=X0taAlZ_MxA

If you want graphically intense games then western games should be more up your alley. Japanese niche games very rarely utilize the hardware they are on.

>vanillaware
So, another barebones and tedious game with great art? Pass. Odin Sphere made me fall asleep during the true ending because of how repetitive it got, and I couldn't even get through half of Dragon's Crown without forcing it.

OK

You can, but rotoscopeing for 3D animation is not really done anymore now that motion capture is the standard.

That's using a 3D model as a reference for 2D animation. Again totally different.

What VanillaWare is known for is their really talented 2D art staff and this was going to be a game about giant robots, The problem I immediately identified back in 2015 was their robot designs were too intricate to readily have them as playable characters that you could control if you're going to hand animate them outside of a very small selection of canned animations, which is an area 3D could help a lot, Robots tend to be more rigid so you can convincingly get away with using 3D in a way you can't when dealing with non-robotic characters, but if you just slapped 3D models of robots into your game they'd look out of place with all the 2D assets. What you could do, (there was so other game that did this but the name eludes me) was you apply 2D paintings to 3D models in such a way that from a flat angle they blend in, like pic related and that earlier Gundam model. That way you could have a playable robot that fits within the style of VanillaWare.

Ultimately they just went with a strategy game where you don't control the robots and you only see the robots in canned cutaway scene similar to SRW. Which is a disappointment, given VanillaWare's track record of pushing boundaries of 2D art in games while trying new things.

I wouldn't sell VanillaWare short like that, Odin Sphere and Dragon's Crown were both incredibly impressive on a technical front there are a lot of under-the-hood style tricks to get all those smooth animations and paralleling layers and Muramasa was no slouch either. Odin Sphere in particular was certainly pushing the PS2 pretty hard.

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She's not part of the main cast, imagine being so fat you don't fit into a fucking robot lmao

She's not fat, she's chub.

>9k yen
What the hell? I think that's the highest I've seen games go in Japan

You don't look at nip game prices much then.

Top right is best girl. Fuck anyone who thinks otherwise.

Cope much? Haha... :3

No?

Are you sure? Responding to something you don't like with "OK" is definitely a coping mechanism where you trivialize something you don't like.

I'm sure, yes. I just thought you typed out all that shit so you probably wanted someone to read it, since I'm the OP and I knew nobody else was going to bother replying to you I thought it was rude to just leave you hanging there. It is your opinion, you are free to have it, there's nothing else I can say.

Looking at the gameplay it seems like Vanillaware should have cut those "battles" entierly and release a visual novel of some sort
Of course people would have been angry but it would have made a better product in the end

The only remotely close shit to what you’re describing is the recent guilty gear games otherwise anything in motion fails to do what you are talking about, vanillawares other games are sprites with animated parts and stretching sprites

I wonder how attacking will play out.

The plot is Sonic ‘06 levels of bad.
Lots of different characters affecting other characters.
It’s not good.

How would you know? It's not out yet.

You seen the prologue?
It’s pretty easy to tell the story is a clusterfuck.
13 interconnected time travel overlapping plot
Not an easy thing to follow along with.

>The only remotely close shit to what you’re describing is the recent guilty gear
No, that's not the same thing, Xerd has prebaked lighting on cel shading. And there was some game that did this but I again can't recall the name.
>vanillawares other games are sprites
Actually no, what they do is take thge 2D art and stretch it across 3D polygons and from there it transforms and warps that 2D art. If you run Odin Sphere or Muramasa in an emulator and try enabling wireframe mode, you'll see what's really happening.

>You see the attack animations briefly while choosing what to do but not actually when you execute them
Excuse me, what the fuck? That is honestly one of the strangest battle systems I have ever seen.

Looks interesting, I got kinda burned out on their 2D side scrolling action games so I'm happy they're doing something new.

Odin Sphere disagrees with you though.

How so? Convoluted story isn't actually equivivalent to a strong story.

>lore dump the story

they're not 3d wireframes though they are just 2d wireframes and stretched and warped, again unless you show an example of what you're talking about it makes no sense

It was originally in development for the Vita as well. They dropped it when Vita died tho

>Convoluted
user, you might be a brainlet.
>lore dump
Now you're just using a word that you don't understand the meaning behind for.

Sorry 2d skeletal animation not wireframes, don’t starve uses skeletal animation too

I think you might be getting confused because you really don't understand the technology, it's not a big deal and most people don't understand the distinction but from the game's perspective those 2D characters are actually a series of invisible 3D boxes with a 2D art over them, those 3D boxes warp and shift and that distorts the 2D art. So all your character and objects, anything that moves in the game is actually a 3D object as far as the game is concerned.

Now what I'm talking in terms of the style, if you look at xrd here you can see here the texture is rather simplistic and most of the detail comes from that custom pre-baked cel shaded lighting (watch youtu.be/yhGjCzxJV3E?t=1171) , what I'm talking about is when you paint that entire texture in the style of the 2D art and model the mesh in such a way that you can conceivably blend it into the rest of the 2D art of the game.

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you're the one confused. stop with this comparison to Xrd, because they aren't the same technology. the texture in your own picture proves it. compare it to actual vanillaware assets.

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This doesn't look fun, or intricate, or involved. It takes more than screenshake and stock explosions to make gameplay look fun.
What the fuck are they doing with this game?

It's not the first time they made tower defense right?

>you're the one confused. stop with this comparison to Xrd
You're the ones who brought up Xrd, I was just using it to explain it to you more simply.

>because they aren't the same technology. the texture in your own picture proves it. compare it to actual vanillaware assets.
If you read my post I said as much, but you seem to be confusing two different thing I'm talking about what I mentioned up and you're talking about what they're currently doing with their 2D models which I explained for you in the first half of Please try to pay attention next time.

You’re providing examples of what it’s not but like I asked show an example of what you are talking about
has already shown that vanillaware games are just skeletal animation

I already provided you some like >has already shown that vanillaware games are just skeletal animation
Right but as I was explaining to you how that skeleton is actually a number of 3D boxes with 2D art, not just sprites which you seemed to think they were.

What are you having such a hard time grasping at this point?

this is a case of lonely autistic weab anons having the only form of conversation they can have

Praytell what are the great intricacies of the plot to Odin Sphere?
The girl with daddy troubles? The prince that turns into a bunny xd, the edgelord darkness

They are not 3D boxes, the game is not 3D and what you e shown is a photograph, show a game or even an animation where it uses this technique you are talking about which is apparently unexplainable in a term

>MAO
Why is she cursed to be in nothing but trash anime and trash vidya

Grimgrimoire, but this looks like it plays slightly differently.

>They are not 3D boxes, the game is not 3D
It is, maybe you're being picky and would prefer the term quadrilateral because it doesn't have six sides, the characters are constructed of a series of overlappying polygons with the 2D art on them these polygons are shaped like boxes (rectangles/quadrilaterals), the game renders these using it's 3D processing so when you turn on wireframe mode you can see all the boxes, and those boxes move in 3D space sometimes. Again go into an emulator and turn on wireframe you'll see what I'm talking about. If it were purely a 2D layer some emulators allow you to turn them on and off individually.

>how a game or even an animation where it uses this technique you are talking about which is apparently unexplainable in a term
I explained it pretty well I think. I've give you pictures of real world versions and full explanation of how it's pulled off. I've seen it used in a game before, where a 3D asset was being passed off as a 2D asset because the texture it was using fit the style as the rest of the 2D assets, but I don't remember what game that was. I didn't invent this technique I've definitely seen it done somewhere in some other game and I showed you some real-life examples of it in place of whatever games it was that did this before.

Where are the big titties. Anyway, Mechshit AND Tower Defense sounds like a winning strategy to get absolutely no sales at all.

>where a 3D asset was being passed off as a 2D asset because the texture it was using fit the style as the rest of the 2D assets
Fez did this, not sure if that's the game you're thinking of though.

Attached: FEZ.gif (500x354, 586K)

You’ve explained either cel shading or skeletal animation, you’ve shown no evidence of any of this while trying to explain bar a picture of a real life imitation of a 2d image, just show something with this technique you’re talking about, fucking anything

Fez is just a 3D game shown on a 2D plane, like paper Mario, doesn’t sound a think like what he’s talking about

>You’ve explained either cel shading or skeletal animation
I explicitly explained to you how it wasn't either cel shading, because it's not about the lighting model doing the work of adding detail for you, it's about painting the textures to match the 2D assets. It's not a skeletal animation because in this case you're actually building a full 3D model of the robot but on that model you're painting with the same style as the 2D art and you're animating it in such a way that whenever it's still it can blend in with rest of the 2D elements.

> you’ve shown no evidence of any of this while trying to explain bar a picture of a real life imitation of a 2d image, just show something with this technique you’re talking about, fucking anything
Is not what I was thinking of specifically but it's actually is pretty close, the only difference would be the background would be 2D while the character would be 3D posing as 2D whenever it was still. That drumkit is a good example of how it works.

> doesn’t sound a think like what he’s talking about
Maybe you're just still not understanding something fundamental here. Explain how it isn't.

youtube.com/watch?v=qHEPTHQu77M
Fuck is this what you mean, like ori and the blind forest

weebs are so fucking embarrassing

this game is going to sell like shit
hopefully it doesnt kill vanillaware

>from the response they got after it was announced as a VN they changed development into some sort of gameplay added on to the game
And that's why this will be the first vanillaware game i will not buy.
the game fell rought and half assed like they didnt know wha the gameplay should have been and tried some random things untill they sticked with the less shit one.

Not entirely but a similar ballpark, you're still trying to end up with a 3D model at end not a sprite. Again refer to the real-life examples, 3D model, painted up to look like 2D. When they idle you wouldn't be able to distinguish them from the rest of the 2D assets because they'd be painted up to look like 2D sprites and move like sprites despite being 3D models. That way you could have a fully controllable giant robot character with all their moving parts without looking completely out of place in an otherwise 2D game.

Fez is just voxels or trixels as they call it shown on 2d camera angle, what you were talking about was textures on a 3D polygon but on a 2d plane

Are they naked inside the mecha?

boring video. looks like front mission series.

i played all fm games except for the some garbage spin offs including that western trash so maybe will give it a try. westacucks wont buy it.
all fm games sold like shit in the west.

>And that's why this will be the first vanillaware game i will not buy.
good this information is so useful to me

Fuck me man last attempt Valdis story
endlessfluff.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/wyatt-sprite-creation-process-for-valdis-story-a-c/

happy to be helpful

Should have made a full strategy jrpg/vn capitalizing on the fact that classic Front Mission is fucking dead

>Fez is just voxels or trixels
Two completely different things, they're using regular polygons and textures not voxels, they termed it Trixels (trix- as in trick, -xels as in pixels) is what they were calling their polygonal models which fool you into thinking it's 2D. The only major difference is Vanillaware goes for more of a painterly style while this was clearly aping pixel art.

see theinstructionlimit.com/behind-fez-trixels-and-why-we-dont-just-say-voxels

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No because they're wearing a mecha, Are you naked inside your clothes?

am just mad it took them six years for this

>Are you naked inside your clothes?
Actually yes, exactly like you.

>exactly like you.
I don't wear clothes.

but you get common cold if you dont

>am just mad it took them six years for this
is there magnums opus

But this is what I’m trying to tell you vanillaware don’t use this technique, they use skeletal animation with sprite textures

That's like the other one, they had a 3D model, they took pictures of that model, then they go over those pictures in photoshop to give them a hand drawn aesthetic (essentially rotoscoping) to create a 2D sprite.

What I'm talking about is still more like the drumkit in the Fez gif, but rather than going for a pixel style you go for the painterly style that VanillaWare is known for.

I know that, I never said they did. We're not even talking about the technique they use at this point I already explained how their technique is achieved, they use dozens of 3D boxes with 2D sprites on them and they move, distort warp ect these in a skeletal animation you can see the individual pieces in those are what the boxes have in them think of a little rectangle around each of those moveing and shifting, that's how they build characters. What we're still talking about is one technique that I thought would have been one of many potential solution to the problem that having a super intricate robot in an otherwise 2D game when I saw the game back in 2015 before we knew what it was like. Go back to and to see where this conversation started if you're lost.

That's nonsense. Who told you that, your mother?

Now I know why they delayed showing off the gameplay for so long.

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No, yours last night

Yeah, I'm intensely surprised they didn't scrap it to just redo it, it looks awful.

My mom's dead tho..

There is no 3D boxes I don’t know where you’re getting the 3D from, they’re 2d frames, they function like flash animation

Looks boring. I hope that view isn't all the gameplay parts. Also generic highschoolers is the last type of character designs I want to see out of vanillaware.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised there's this weird thing with Vanillaware for me were every other new game they've made as been a miss for me.

>There is no 3D boxes
>they’re 2d frames
No, They're actually fully 3D polygons, again wireframe mode in an emulator, if they were actually 2D you wouldn't get a box. The game engine is rendering them as 3D objects that's how it can move, distort and warp them so easily.

George kamitani says there is no 3D models used and I’m inclined to believe him

Do you have problems against people that can talk to ghosts?

He's not lying, they aren't models, they're a skeletal animation comprised of a couple dozen 3d boxes overlapping eachoher each displaying a single 2D texture.

Also play another 2d game on that emulator you talking about or at the least show a picture of the wireframe

Ghosts are real, I know that much, but I don't believe in mystics who claim they can commune with them. They're all charlatans.

>They're all charlatans
Yes, that's why i dont tell people that i can talk to them, better keep weird stuff secrets.

Those 3D boxes are hit boxes, they’re to do with enemies hitting you

Here you go dude. Took me awhile to find a game that was actually 2D on the Wii but top is Castlevania The Adventure ReBrith and bottom is Muramasa, see how Muramasa has all those 2D assets have little boxes when you switch to wireframe but Castlevania has basically nothing outside the view port itself? That's because all those 2D sprites on actually 3D geometry with that 2D sprite applied as a texture.

>Those 3D boxes are hit boxes
No, notice how even the UI elements and background details have them as well?

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Looka like it boring

Castvavania uses textures only muramasa as we’ve discussed uses skeletal animation they are vectors totally different to what you’ve discussed

Castlevania*

Here is a picture taken between the layers showing that they are in fact 3D objects the a Z-axis being layered rather than 2D ones.

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Note that the """"girl"""" on the top-left is actually a guy. That's the protagonist. Yes, he cross dresses. Why? I don't know.

This looks like an Evangelion game.

Also people seem to forget that Vanillaware make turn based games too.

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Why did did they have to make a tower defense/turn base game though? The gameplay of modern Odin Sphere and Muramasa are pretty much perfect for a 2D side-scrolling game, it's like they mastered how to do something and then just never do that again. Not saying it's gonna flop or anything but it's obvious that their action games sell much better than the others

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Looks like a game made for mobiles.

Something tells me this game is gonna close the company or close to it.

Well goddamn, this is not exactly what I expected from Vanillaware. Might be a fun game for those who enjoy this stuff. But didn't they tease some kind of a RPG not too long ago? It was a teaser for something medieval themed at least.

What you’re showing is parallax though with a z plane

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ryuuko yukiko

qts

You might be thinking about grand kingdom which looks a lot like kamitanis art

No, vectors refer to how the art was created not how it is rendered in the finished product.
(see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics) It is rendered as a 3D object with a rasterized 2D texture applied to it, not a vector. If it were rendered as a vector it would be scalable like a flash animation (or the geometry on a 3d character) and you wouldn't be able to fly the camera between the layers like this because they wouldn't exist in 3D space. Castlevania uses 2D sprites and renders them in 2D. Muramasa here and nearly all VanillaWare games use little 3D with 2D textures on them in overlapping layers.

Yes, but do you understand how that was achieved in engine? This isn't drawing this as a 2D image. Those are polygons as shown in the wireframe, now look at the character's wireframe, she isn't a single sprite or flat 2D object but a collection of 3d objects, little boxes, each containing a 2D texture.

Have I cleared up all your misconceptions yet? Or do you have more questions.

Remember to buy mediocre games from developers you like so they don't go under.

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But that usually only means they end up making more mediocre games...

VanillaWare had a good run all things considered.

so what you were talking about this whole time was essentially flash animation using a 3d flat polygon

Nah, I still want Fighting game from them, too early for them to go under!

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>so what you were talking about this whole time
We've been on multiple different topics, you seem to have got hung up on the fact that the characters aren't sprites but actually 3D objects displaying 2D rasterized textures. This is a concept you seem to have a mental blockage prohibiting you from understanding.

>was essentially flash animation
Kinda, so long as you understand the art displayed in the isn't a vector like a flash animation would be. You can see this by the fact that when you Zoom in on the art it gets blurry unlike a vector which would stay sharp when you zoom in.

> using a 3d flat polygon
Flat might be a bit misleading because they are layered in the Z-axis and they're not restricted to a single 2D plane, they are 3D objects as far as the game is concerned and they do move in all 3 dimensions but yes they are comprised of little 'flat' 3D boxes each displaying a rasterized 2d texture as I have been explaining to you.

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I already preordered the game on amiami

>tfw they will never top Muramasa

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Is buying the character's figures enough?

Games need to sell 1m copies ore the people who make them go bankrupt these days.

Retard

He's not wrong though.

There is a crossdresser but it's not the one in the OP