"core gameplay loop"

How else would you describe it?

RE4 is not bad

Shamiko?

>"controls are very clunky"

Me in the middle

>"immersive sim"

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Shamiko is my wife Momo's girlfriend!

central action cycle

Nothing really wrong with the words themselves but I just feel sick whenever I hear the words brilliant or genious s in a video now.

Yuri isn't real.

so video games as a whole?

I'm sick of clickbaity titles like "GAME is genious/trash, and HERE'S WHY and WHY YOU need to know this"

Explain this image then

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What image?

>user is so gay he cannot see Yuri
Sasuga user!

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Honestly, what is the appeal for women for getting their fingers sucked?

Its used by everyone from actual devs to regular players, no shit.

I take it a girl has never sucked your fingers before?

Huh?

Penis envy

I'm not a girl. At least with men there's a penis analogue.

It's just shitposting don't take this so seriously.

you should try hormones

>a bunch of grandiose words to describe innocuous shit in video games
Like when Matthewmatosis calls the NPCs leaving Firelink Shrine "genius". The fuck?

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Stupid shit vidya analysts say thread? Here’s one:

>”Civilization is racist because it doesn’t portray barbarians as their own nation, implying they don’t have a culture”

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"Gameplay"

Storyfags and atmospherefags are retarded, nothing new here

Dilate.

no you do that later

Sigh... Gamers, huh?

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What would you say to describe what you do in a game then?

The core gameplay loop in Monster Hunter is to hunt monsters for materials to craft gear to hunt stronger monsters for better materials to craft better gear. How else would you describe this concept?

It's retarded and a transparent attempt to sound intelligent. Devs are designing games so they can get away with thinking about games on a meta level. Just say gameplay, you're not a game designer.

>The gameplay in Monster Hunter involves hunting monsters for materials to craft gear to hunt stronger monsters for better materials to craft better gear.
So. Fucking. Difficult.

>a penis analogue
get a girl to suck your fingers. shit feels good. its not even about "oh it looks like shes sucking my dick"

but it has the vikings and zulus

more like this

I've been seeing this pop up all the time lately. Can you please fucking stop?

That's too videogamey
>sucks own penis

This. Infinitely less pretentious and you don't sound like zoomer mimicking the latest Joseph Anderson video.

>"problematic content"

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That's not thinking about them on a "meta level" that's just thinking about them in general since as soon as you give it even a second of thought you realize gameplay's a collection of many different loops so while one can be good the other can be total shit. You can have a good combat loop inside a shitty tedious collectathon

Yeah we call those "good gameplay" and "shit gameplay".

No you don't you retard lol
>dis game hav gud gameplay AND shit gameplay wat gievs
What you actually do is disregard the different aspects of gameplay and just call a whole game GOTY or shit depending on what your particular bias is

Yeah we do. The large majority of game review don't use the term "core gameplay loop", this is a recent thing. They just critique the shit they don't like and measure against the whole experience and that makes it good or bad gameplay. You're not intelligent, you're a pretentious fucking zoomer.

Yeah you do, because you're a stupid fuck who's actively hostile towards discussing games like most of this shit board. Game reviewers are fucking know nothing dipshits lmao are you seriously using them as an example? It's useful for game devs for the same reason it's useful for anyone else who's discussing games because they attempt to add some clarity to the jumbled clusterfuck that is games discussion

"Core gameplay" means the main mechanics, its not some side bullshit you do in the game. If the main mechanic is a shitty collectathon, then yes it has shit gameplay even if another aspect of it can be good because its main mechanic is shit.

Go back to /r/gaming you retarded faggot.

Core gameplay can mean fucking anything in most games nowadays, in the 80's and 90's you could get away with it because games were mostly just doing one thing but nowadays games are frankensteins monsters of different gameplay styles alongside one another. In collectathons with a substantial focus on combat it's hard to even tell what the fuck the "core" gameplay is since the time is almost evenly split between platforming, combat and collecting junk.

Nevermind the fucking retard youtubers, post more yuri.

They should just get married already.

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futa doujins when?

No thanks I've already had enough reddit vibes from your posts

>Yea Forums gets insecure from basic game design terminology

Is there a more pathetic board? lmao that's like Yea Forums getting upset when people call "many sounds played together" a chord

More like zoomer terminology. This was not used pre-2010s and we did just fine. It's just a bunch of pretentious bullshit pushed by e-celebs.

>"kit"

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Yes

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Yes it was, it's just that you were too young to look past youtube at that point and the gay video essays trend hadn't really taken off yet. And nah who are you trying to fool, 2010's Yea Forums was total trash at games discussion too, the average poster just had better tastes back then

>core gameplay loop
Its double talk. A euphemism user, it mean's that the game is so shit. You'll be doing the same attacks, shooting, punching, etc over and over and over

me not like big wordsy

>stop trying so hard be a dum dum like me

fucking zoomers just kys

Nah, go fuck yourself you zoomer faggot.

"game"

>Yes it was
nah, stop making shit up faggot

>"The Beauty of [GAME]" (46:28)

There is forever some shit like this in my recommended videos. They must be pumping out these idiots from a factory somewhere.

>me not like big wordsy
None of those words are big you retard.

LMAO
See this is why I don't take you retards seriously when you get upset at these terms. Do you want each game to be a collection of minigames like ps1/wii shovelware and rabbids trash? Any game that has a good set of mechanics and a focus will be doing about the same things with relatively minor variations

Oh God, I'd finally forgotten about that retard. Did you have to remind me?

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>LMAO

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>immersive experience

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We never used "core gameplay loop" in casual video game discussion until recently.

Everything was always just a descriptive word plus gameplay, or just the word gameplay, not "core gameplay loop". It comes across as incredibly forced at that point.

Seething brainlet newfags

A series of minigames still has a core gameplay loop. You enter a minigame, see what it is, learn the rules, adapt to it, beat it, repeat. It's impossible for a game to not have a loop

Who's "we"? Yea Forums? This board is too stupid to even know what gameplay loop means, see that's not a good argument. Youtubers making babbys first game design videos? Similarly clueless

This is the worst one. Not only because it's hard to figure out what someone actually means when they say this but also because when you do figure out what they mean it never actually have anything to do with the controls. It's just them not liking the gameplay, usually because they want more freedom with their character and don't like having actions that require commitment

This is either bait or youre mentally handicapped. Look at God Hand, it has at first a basic set of mechanics that define the combat. But as the game progresses the game BUILDS on that mechanic with new abilities and more challenge enemies that require you to try out new techniques and build upon your own skillset.
Now look at the Arkham games, EVERY single fight is press counter to win. With 2-3 sub types of enemies scattered through that require you to press another single button instead of counter. Like dodging the stun baton enemies in Arkham games

Yeah but you're constantly doing new shit there even if it's completely superficial and the new mechanics constantly getting introduced suck dick. According to this guy all action and fighting games are shit because you're just doing the same things instead of, I don't know, admiring the futa cock mods you've just installed into an open world immersive quantity over quality sandbox via a unique mini game.

The entire internet. If you Google the term "core gameplay loop" and set the filters to pre-2010, you won't find any results from any gaming forums including Gamespot/Gamefaqs, reddit, or Yea Forums. Maybe a rogue post here or there, but this was not used until recently. Stop acting like you're some oldfag,

Ahhh God Hand, that's a good example actually because it's a game that always, ALWAYS uses the same set of fundamentals. Whether you're using early or late game moves you're still going to be looking out for counter hits during enemy wind ups and combo pauses, you're still going to be using the default triangle attacks for crowd control, you're still going to do shit like wall loop for extra damage, and so on. What you're talking about is simple progression, it's extremely shallow and worthless. Bam Ham lets you constantly unlock gadgets you can play around with as well, and if it did even more of that the game would still be awful because the combat lacks depth, challenge, intensity and basically anything fun and is a near QTE. You have no concrete set of standards with which you can describe how you judge a game's quality, because you are stupid.

>beat boss in jrpg
>whole party is defeated in cutscene

>kill guards, bandits, other fiends nonstop during game
>"no! Don't kill him, you'll be just as bad as him if you do!" in cutscene with big baddie who just tried to pull a genocide
>GTA IV missions Nico vs running over civilians

These are examples of ludonarrative dissonance. Not so hard uh?

You describe God Hand the exact same way as I did? You start off with a basic set of mechanics that builds as you PROGRESS through the game. Its takes its "core gameplay loop" and builds on it making it an actually fun game. You still counter in later stages, but what you can do after the counter is expanded up just doing a wind up kick, or a ball buster.
The arkham bat games is my example of something that greatly suffers because of a "core gameplay loop." You can't deviate from what the game wants you to do, because the retard dev's designed the game to played a certain way instead of allowing playing any sort of freedom. The gadgets are just gimmicks, so at least we agree on that.

> Its takes its "core gameplay loop" and builds on it making it an actually fun game.
No it doesn't, it's the same exact mechanics from beginning to end and the game would still be just as fun if it only had the default moves and adjusted them to scale with enemy health over time. In fact starting moveset is a popular challenge that I did myself, and the only major difference was the damage. Arkham can be contrasted with the Batman Returns game on the SNES which has very few mechanics, doesn't have any unlocks to speak of, yet is way more fun AND deeper than Bam Ham because elements like spacing matter, enemies are dangerous, and the difference between the moves is important.

Hurr "Gameplay". We don't ask if a book has good "Bookread" nor do we ask if a film has good "Moviewatch". "Gameplay" is just as retarded.

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>ludonarrative dissonance

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It's called "gameplay" because you, the player, are interacting with the game. You are PLAYING the game. You can't PLAY with a book, you just read. You can't INTERACT with a movie, you just watch.

Do you not consider the roulette wheel a mechanic? and the seemingly endless amounts of random skills to use during combat? I understand the game could be played with just the starting moveset, but why would you? its a curhayzee game, you're meant to STYLE on your enemies

You PLAY a GAME.
You READ a BOOK.
You WATCH a MOVIE.

What was your point again?

That gameplay is a solid term. That easily and accurately describes what you the player are doing and seeing on screen.

Maybe because establish terms are just different for every form of media so there's no need. Gameplay has been the standard for literally forever. Trying to change it because you want to be a special little zoomer is not the same thing.

The random skills are tiny variations on the same core moves you start with, roulette wheel isn't an evolution of the core gameplay it's just an additional mechanic you use from time to time when you're in trouble, like the god hand

It's a legit actual thing that is regularly discussed in at least some game studios. Or at least, 'macro' and 'micro' gameplay loops.
t. Junior designer in AAA

Cool. Random 13 year old zoomer on reddit doesn't count though.

Also furthermore, if you had all the moves unlocked from the get-go the game would be better, not worse.

>"suspension of disbelief"

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since when is Yea Forums literally anti-intellectual and against discussing fucking video games
so if we're supposed to ignore the actually useful words for discussing games, what are we supposed to say?
>durr, it fun
>durr I don't like this one, but don't know why! must be bad game

You not knowing what game loops or narrative dissonance are doesn't make them pretentious or unimportant, it makes you ignorant. You could always go and learn the words or leave the conversation instead of complaining
And you better be fucking thankful actual game designers understand this stuff and use it daily, or video games as a whole would be terrible

>Reddit is a AAA studio

What is this "we don't understand" meme you're trying to push? "Core gameplay loop" isn't exactly a complex phrase, but its coated in pretentiousness when used a Taiwanese sketch telegraphing station. It's fine for a game designer to use it because they're actually making fucking video games. But when you post it here, you just come across as a pseudo-intellectual faggot. Nobody cares.

It broke my suspension of disbelief when I saw Yoshi in Super Mario World. Dinosaurs aren't green!!

>immersion

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I was raping an orc loli in Skyrim with mods when the game suddenly broke my suspension of disbelief by glitching out and crashing.
Fucking gAMERS

This one especially rubs me the wrong way. It's a fucking video game, get over yourself. Like Matthewmatosis acted so dramatic like the Shrine of Winter rubble thing ruined the game for him. The one thing was a step too far. Yeah its stupid and they should have just placed a giant wall there but they probably didn't think anyone would be autisitc enough to care. Get over yourself.

>The core gameplay of Super Mario Bros. 3 is to clear stages to unlock and clear more difficult stages

I think of Yea Forums as a place for the "hardcore" fans of any subculture to come together and talk shit about the entry-level plebs and share/discuss the good stuff.
Why is it a bad thing if we want to have an in-depth discussion about the design every now and then? If we're having that in-depth discussion, why would we avoid the phrases invented to describe the things we're talking about?

And I'm saying you dummies don't understand because this post is retarded And often people act like ludonarrative dissonance must not mean anything just because it's a big pretentious-sounding word

Movie fans don't get pissed off when you start talking about the cinematography

>prose
>cinematography

Yeah exactly, so there should be a similar word to apply to games. Not "Gameplay" because that's just as retarded as "Bookread" or "Moviewatch"

"gameplay" and "core gameplay loop" mean different things you retards, google it

>being this butthurt because nobody wants to use your pretentious zoomer phrases

Just because it works for one subject, doesn't mean it should work for the other 2. "Gameplay" has been used since fucking PONG, it makes sense. It's easily understandable. "Bookread" and "moviewatch" aren't used because they sound RETARDED. Not because GAMEPLAY happens to work so that should mean every other piece of media needs its own SUBJECT+METHOD OF INTERACTION term.
>THIS FUCKING NEWSPAPER HAS SHIT NEWSREAD
(YOU) are a retard. .

They would if their show wasn't just yuribait.

Define "similar word" so i can watch you spasm in an etymological fit.

youtube was such a mistake holy shit

oh no someone used a term to describe what you do in the game...

I feel like it's an okay term to use in some games like Harvest Moon or Darkest Dungeon where the gameplay rarely changes much

>[insert game mechanic] is a very ELEGANT solution to [another game mechanic]

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>WHY ARE YOU CRITICIZING MY FAVORITE YOUTUBERS HIGH IQ JARGON YOU BRAINLETS YOU JUST DONT GET IT

kill yourself my man

Because describing it by "core gameplay loop" doesn't sound like something a true blooded enthusiast would ever say to describe a game. They would be nuanced and the target of the discussion would similarly be as nuanced in their discussion. By labeling so much as a catchall term like core gameplay loop all you really do is limit the immense variety all games can bring to the table. You limit it by selection of diction MGS5 style and don't even realize you've already boxed in the discussion to a pleb tier waste of time.

My analysis on why you are a gay ass faggot idiot luddite was the core gameplay mechanic of Yea Forums and I hope you've played our game long enough to shut up and realize you teenage tourist faggot fucks don't know anything like you do. When we all tell you to fuck off because you are being babby sacks of feces with newspeak ideas to package very varied and interesting ideas into popspeak we mean it: fuck off.

Your diction is casual and introductory. We actually talk about stuff deeper than core packaged ideas.

>"taking you out of the experience"

>mega item
>trinity weapon
>armor
>repeat

>It doesn't work because strawman 1 and strawman 2
Ok.

I have stacks upon stacks of video game magazines from the early 90s to around 2008 and I never heard the phrase "gameplay loop" until a few years ago at most.

You might actually just be retarded. In any intelligent problem solving field the word elegant is very commonly used to mean a solution with a high utility:complexity ratio. If you can solve multiple problems with one simple thing, that's elegant design

Gameplay loop is an abstract concept you stupid fuck its most useful in general abstract discussion when you dont necessarily want to talk about specifics, and abstract discussion happens literally all the time, even specific game discussion ends up being abstract eventually. Youre a worthless tit

Maybe you'd find it in old GDD's

Toilet paper is a very elegant solution to cleaning my ass!

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>I avoid using the terms those COMMON professionals use, and invented my own terms to refer to the same things
THAT'S pretentious you fucking idiot
Pretentious and anti-intellectual at the same time, bravo

We should use the term "surprise mechanics" instead of lootboxes because that's what game devs use.

>"balance"
>"end game"
>"fun"

Indie dev here, whether or not you realize it every game you play has a "core gameplay loop"

Name one repetitive thing you do in a videogame you play and ask yourself how many times you do that action. Example, FPS.

Shoot
Kill enemy
Find Ammo
Reload

Kill another enemy
level up

rinse/repeat. MMO's are designed around gameplay loops, thats why they all feel the same.

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Your favorite youtube celebrities are not professionals and they are not intellectuals. Kill yourself then fuck off zoomer faggots

Is this Noah? Sounds like him
I can't believe that retarded faggot has my name

People who don't work in the industry are not allowed to use those words?

whats your game user?

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I dont watch youtube fags but I also dont take Yea Forums dumbfuck ideas seriously, listen to gdc and read articles/interviews

>roadmap

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A board room meeting about game mechanics must be hell for a developer who just wanted to make fun games.

>I know I'll move the goal posts he wont know what to do then

After your done chugging cock and giving mommy and daddy's money to your favorite streamer go ahead and kill yourself kay bucko.

Matthew is just about the most pretentious autist around and I don't believe even he has ever used the term "core gameplay loop". That says a lot.

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Don't cut yourself on that edge user

>bombastic

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>no YT
>Yea Forums is retard
Ok off to a great start here

>game dev conference
Kill yourself

No he isn't, stop seething joseph

You've read nothing understood nothing and ultimately refuse to even try to get what anyone has talked about. All because you fill your own head with eceleb bullshit instead of actually thinking for yourself and doing things

What else is there to say but kill yourself, trash

This is a good autism thread.

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>game developer pretends like a game can have "seasons"

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does this dickwad still make videos or not? i think i'm still subscribed to him and i can't remember the last time i saw one of his videos

Are you fucking retarded? GDC has a huge variety of devs discussing a huge variety of topics from game design to more technical topics discussimg specific mechanic implementation and the business aspects. Low iq contrarian dipshit lmfao

I remember some fag who made a video about how essentially you are playing the colonizer in Minecraft.

>hurr durr why doesn't he churn out shit content constantly
>Why does making something great take time

nigger i'm asking a legitimate question i haven't seen an upload from him since he got cucked or some shit

What you didn't enjoy Fortnite Season 3 you faggot?

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what the fuck are you talking about

I'm asking if he has made a video in the past fucking year you stupid shit

I like Game Maker's Toolkit, why does Yea Forums hate him

>all I'm going to do is fill my head with other peoples thoughts and opinions then I'll be well informed

What have those dev's made? Look at the games look at their contributions and play them you fucking retard. Actually put in the work. Match their words with their actions. Guess what?

It's trash

That’s way too broad a term. “Core gameplay loop” is specifically used to describe the moment-to-moment pattern that the player will be following for the majority of their playthrough, which is a more specific and therefore more useful term when discussing that element of the game. When discussing elements that make a game good or bad it helps nobody to be reductive.

>catharsis

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Doesn't even come close. Shooting a gun is gameplay. Looting and selling items is gameplay. Upgrading your character is gameplay. But all three of these things combined is a loop of many facets of gameplay leading into each other. A core gameplay loop.

>But all three of these things combined
Still gameplay.

Video games as a medium are unique in that there is a heavy emphasis on the way the consumer interacts with the media in question. There is no equivalent to "gameplay" in books or movies.

>"gunplay"

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>medium

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>What have those dev's made?
Doom, Thief, and more
Fucking clueless retard hahahahaha
The guy calling you anti intellectual is right you actually hate learning about games and you will use any thick skull dumb faggot excuse to dismiss knowledge and learnig. Its good that people like you wont make games or anything else worthwhile

I don't have any answers of my own I just endlessly insult everyone else to feel good about myself.

Oh yeah, when people ask for gameplay for upcoming games, what they're really asking for is 45 minutes of a guy jumping in place. I mean jumping is the gameplay after all.

I always think of that term "30 seconds of fun" coined by one of the Halo guys. The thing you're doing repeatedly and most frequently. That's the core gameplay loop. In Halo it's shooting the Covenant, but sometimes you get away from it and drive a warthog or fly a banshee for a bit. I don't get how it's pretentious, it's not like the phrasing is complex or snooty.

>after taking gravity out of the equation, the average mass of an adult human male is 7.14 kg

THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS YOU FUCKING RETARD

Look at his fucking youtube channel and you'll see you absolute fucking idiot
Because he dabs on Yea Forumss idiocy

You can tell he's never actually developed a game, he's just a game design fan. A lot of what he says is just the most basic surface level stuff. And some of his takes are just retarded, like whenever he talks about genre. And just in general he says a lot of dumb stuff.
Basically his channel is fine but just don't take him as seriously as he wants you to take him, he calls himself "gamemaker's toolkit" but I don't think any actual developer should ever take his opinion seriously. Just take it all with a grain of salt and the videos are fine.

>Getting triggered because you can't handle ideas
Yeah Mark is based

-t. celeste shill

agreed

t. monster hunter vet

>futa
Only if Hirame makes them.

I like Mark's videos they can teach a lot of things

Dumb Satania poster

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Everything is either his opinion (which shouldn't be taken too seriously) or it's really basic stuff that practically anyone who's into games already knows

Did you know mario games do the thing 3 times so you get a challenge oh and then they do another thing and then combine it
deep anal isis

>immersion
Oh no, the game reminded me I'm playing a video game for 2 and a half seconds.

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DUMB AND UGLY RAPHI POSTER
VIGNE IS THE BEST

Wanna know how I know you are new, fag?

no

Ive been here since 2007 you dumb monkey shitter, keep reaching

>fun

>dollar store matthewmatosis
lol no, fuck off.

Oh, just one peg below 2011ers.

No you havent, and it's because you think people wont actually look up the things you lie about

He's great at analysis, but passing off his opinions on games as "good" or "bad" game design made me stop watching his videos. He had to redo at least a couple for the dumb things he said about what's the "right" way and the "wrong" way of doing things.

t. Senior Game Designer

PS: "core gameplay loop" is a perfectly valid term and widely used within the industry.

>PS: "core gameplay loop" is a perfectly valid term and widely used within the industry.
it's basically why Western design is so stunted

Usually a measure of whether you're being a pretentious tranny is whether you can use the terms around your casual gaming friends to describe a game and not come across like a faggot.

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Quiet down, fuck up

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It’s a new term, but it’s still one worth using. It offers utility because you can use it to specify a pattern of progression.

I’m not sure why the scum of this board scoff at any new term that comes along. People didn’t start screeching in impotent rage over “shooter” being adopted over “doom-clone”, or “sandbox” being adopted over “GTA-clone”, or “metroidvania” being adopted to describe a specific non-linear system of gating progression behind player moveset upgrades. As games become more mature as a craft, new terms to describe their common elements are going to be proposed. It’s inevitable. What we should be doing as videogame enthusiasts is separating the wheat from the chaff to find which ones are helpful for discussing games and blasting the ones that only inhibit clarity.

You could argue “core gameplay loop” has too vague a definition, which results in people arguing over two things without realizing it, but shooting it down right out of the gate just because it’s a new term is retarded. If the very idea of discussing games at a level of detail beyond “the gameplay is good, the story is bad, the controls are good” disgusts you, than you’re a fucking casual and ought to get off the board, or hang yourself from the neck until dead with your belt from the handle of your bedroom door.

Being proud of being an active oldfag is like being proud of brain damage, this site is a disgrace
Feel free to do it you troglodyte, let me help your retarded ass : look up early days of id software and then look through classic postmortems

you have to go back

Replayability

>Guy: So how's the gameplay in the Madden like my dude?
>You: The cOrE gAmInG lOoP is about taking the bAlL to Da eNdZoNE OVER AND OVER AnD pLaYiNg PACHINK0 t0 gEt cArDs. ITS A VERY ELEGANT anD Intellectually STImuLating.

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>this site is a disgrace
Consider leaving any time newfag.

Would if I could, unfortunately Im stuck with you subhuman cunts so enjoy

No it makes sense. It's like when you regularly get called a fucktard, i'm sure you're familiar

This. Bonus points if they're black because they won't hold back on calling you out.

>"Toxicity"

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The fuck kind of brazil iq shit is that? Casuals dont even know what depth or possibility space is, hell most actual casuals will look at you weird if you talk about iframes and other basic shit because they dont think about games that way they just experience them intuitively

WHAT GOOD ARE GIRLS IF THEYRE NOT DOING GAY SHIT AT EACH OTHER

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Thanks for proving the point.

it's interesting how if a unrelated op pic is anime their is a much higher amount of anime reaction pics

Let me guess, youre nonwhite

Anime Magnetizes more Anime

I miss demo

>untied shoes
OP: Ah, I can enjoy th-
>somebody ties the shoes, adding a loop
OP: REEE

Yeah he's too reasonable for this site

This.

>It’s a new term, but it’s still one worth using.
Nope. Back to basedddit with you.

Seething mudskin

> it's the same exact mechanics from beginning to end and the game would still be just as fun if it only had the default moves and adjusted them to scale with enemy health over time

This is false. Moves like the multi-hit attacks that help build stun, the attacks that double as dodges and attacks that provide different variations of status effects and mechanics (like charge+knockback) are buried in the store, and a big part of the game’s appeal and longevity come from experimenting with them. The other guy’s point still holds. The term “core gameplay loop” is perfect for a game like God Hand that has a very narrow focus, because the loop portion implies the repetition.

You’re getting tripped up in your head because you’ve tunnelvisioned on core gameplay loop being new jargon cooked up by those rascally zoomers. Then you shallowly assumed that it could never be applied to your hardcore token Yea Forums-core virtue signalling game despite the term best describing narrowly focused games by its own definition. This is evidenced by your non sequitur into gameplay depth despite that subject having absolutely fucking nothing to do with what the other guy was talking about to begin with.

why did he leave us user, why did he go away
why was the fucking hamster the last thing he would ever give us

I think what all of you socially stunted, double digit IQ craterheads don't seem to understand is that these terms you're shitposting about are used quite commonly within the industry, they're just not used when casually speaking about a game with a friend. Jesus christ with this shithole sometimes, get a fucking clue, all of you.

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This is literally the stupidest thread I've seen on Yea Forums

You should've been here during gamergate, THAT was peak stupidity

gimme the source on that chocolate cutie

Shamiko is cute though

Idk it's some chinese anime

He streams on twitch but i dont care for it

>No proof
I can guess your political views with %10000 accuracy

That’s the only smart thing here.

>[game design/analysis term] is bad because it reminds me of [game analysis youtuber that I don't like]
Who hurt you, OP?

Gameplay dumb nigger

>Being delicious Brown is a curse
Nanking can't happen again fast enough

He stated his reasons but i forget the minutia of what he said, his reasons came off pretty dour and pessimistic to me but to him they probably aren't that way

Youtube stopped showing every video uploaded by all of your subscribers and now subjects it to the same algorithm they use when showing you anything else. It almost always shows everything but there have been instances of the subscriptions tab missing uploads.

You read that right. Subscribing to a youtube channel no longer guarantees with 100% certainty that you’ll see all of their uploads. It’s as stupid as it sounds. That’s why clickbait channels beg you to subscribe AND click some bell thing now.

Go watch some GDC talks

>No proof

Literally what are you on about schizo

Any game with a modicum of depth will give you enough variation that each time you fight enemies it will be slightly different, challenges will evolve as the game goes on, and your understanding of game mechanics will lead to different gameplay, along with experimentation. That's still completely covered within the term gameplay loop, because it's a general abstract term. Besides attacks that are combined with dodges are effectively present from the start since you can duck dodge into sweep, and slightly more stun is a very clear example of minor variation and it isn't that important outside of certain bosses/midbosses. But what's your point exactly? You seem to be agreeing with me that God Hand has a very distinct clear combat loop that only slightly changes as you progress, like every single game out there.

>Seething because someone dared ask for proof
Holy shit this board is retarded

Proof about what though

Proof of what?

>Yuri thread derailed by failed gamedevs

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He’s good at explaining terms and trends clearly and concisely but he’s also very entry-level.

Lol go check out the outrage over the pingu version as well.

>Muh fake outrage

Literally nothing wrong with this term in the fucking least. If anything, the concept of the 'ludonarrative' and any derivatives should be discussed more.

>used quite commonly within the industry
Maybe but Yea Forums isn't GDC or E3, its a fucking anime board for shitposting. That's why you're a pretentious faggot because you feel the need to flex your new words that you learned on Joseph Anderson's latest video on fucking Yea Forums.

everybody knows when you samefag
get a grip already faggot, you and your faggot gay terms are not welcome here

It surely depends upon the game and the genre. Some games, like Twisted Metal 2 don't HAVE a gameplay loop. Some games, like Bejeweled, are a gameplay loop.

No I want to discuss games instead of doing endless braindead shitposting, you worthless dumb shitskin

>but Yea Forums isn't GDC or E3

That's literally the point i'm making you fat, fedora tipping retard. You wouldnt use these words casually. This is a casual board. A board full of casuals. You wouldn't necessarily use them here

>the dark souls of X

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The takeaway is that Yea Forums is simply too dumb for big boy words, no surprise there lmfao

Idk if it's ludonarrative dissonance, but when I played RDR2, I wasn't really sure if Dutch was slowly becoming insane, or the jobs we were doing were just so dangerous because it's a game.

It's been years since I've played a Twisted Metal game, but doesn't it have a gameplay loop? You enter timed matches collecting power-ups and fighting other cars. Forgive me because it's been awhile

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The takeaway is that you actually believe those are "big boy" words or "intelligent" jargon.

Shit thread

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I’ll let you win the argument if you post the full picture of babu

>intelligent gaming discussion didn't exist before these zoomer meme words were invented by green haired trannies

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The words "big boy" and "intelligent" aren't used seriously; You're being insulted, the implication is that you don't want to use the word because it's too scary for you

>Thread redeemed at the last moment
What are some games?

/cgl/ - core gameplay loops

I might’ve misunderstood your post. I thought you were implying the core gameplay loop term didn’t apply to God Hand because it built off its base mechanics and introduced more complexity as it went on. In other words I thought you were implying the term could only apply to shallow titles like the Arkham games. Sorry about jumping down your throat for no reason.

The funny thing is that despite nu Yea Forums shitting on youtube video analysis ecelebs the whole trend arguably came out of old Yea Forums with people like the gatheryourparty guys who explicitly wanted to make a more useful alternative to braindead games rags and started making video essays that became hugely popular over time. They were all Yea Forums fags. Even matthewphimosis has always been a Yea Forums fag with almost all the early threads shitting on him for ripping off Yea Forums's collective "sophisticated critique", and he posted in these threads.

Gameplay loop is a useless term because it doesn't do anything besides describe the genre
We don't need a new zoomer word to describe genres

ummm i don't have it...

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Based & redpilled in that case since it's the opinion of the guy I was arguing against and we both think he's retarded

>Gameplay in DMC: You control a white hair dude doing some crazy combo while looking badass. Deep combo system.
>Gameplay loop in DMC: You fight monsters with style to get red orbs which are used to unlock new moves to be even more stylish. Along the way you can find fragments that enhance your health or DT gauge.

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Then fuck you, I won’t stop.

>We need to TALK about X / Y and you NEED to listen, here is why X is right

If your videos include any variation of these then go ahead and hang yourself on the nearest tree

The authors of the game design books I've read are professionals. And they use these terms.
I'm an indie dev, and I use these terms. When I talk with other devs, they use these terms

How about YOU fuck off

>white hair dude
>looking badass
Neither of these are gameplay

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Worst is
>Why X is important
>Tweet 1/50
If it was important you wouldn't need a thesis to explain

>Tight controls
>Razor sharp controls

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>western devs
lol

As games become more systems driven and genre lines become more and more blurred, the term “core gameplay loop” becomes more and more valuable. Fallout 4, Doom, Team Fortress 2, Overwatch and Far Cry are all first person shooters that emphasize shooting, but all 5 of them have very different core gameplay loops.

>pseuds ITT absolutely seething

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Wrong. Killing shit, picking up shit and chugging potions is the "core gameplay loop" of diablo or PoE. Going into an instance, returning, distributing skillpoints, comparing gear, vendoring and talking to NPCs is the "overall gameplay loop". Add anything else that you do it's "gameplay"

Someone please explain to me what the term adds besides just describing the genre
You can't

This. Nobody is saying that the idea of a "core gaming loop" doesn't exist or that its not used anymore. What people are saying is that you're a fucking faggot for using it on Yea Forums, plain and simple. This is Yea Forums, not your personal blog about game design. You're a pretentious faggot if you post here like you're writing an essay for your game design class.

It's such a simple idea that I'd like to think that you people are trolling for not getting it. Go back to you-know-where if you want to post like a zoomer indie dev that just sat through a Matthewmatosis video for the first time.

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engagedfamilygaming.com/parent-resources/video-game-definition-week-gameplay-loop/
No fucking idea what this website is, but it seems to describe it competently

They all have different genres, try again
RPG FPS, action FPS, and arena FPS
Try again zoom zoom

Oh yeah, how dare I learn from such lowly designers as Raph Koster and David Brevik
Truly the west has nothing to contribute to the world of game design

>Truly the west has nothing to contribute to the world of game design
now you're getting it, name drop doug church next so i can laugh harder

>Introduce a mechanic, expand on it and then end in a final test of the players understand of said mechanic

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Yep. At least have the decency to put it in 10 words or less

>Introduce mechanic where a machine dispenses onion milk whenever you score a point

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Except zoomers are the ones using hose words to begin with

>Idk if it's ludonarrative dissonance, but when I played RDR2, I wasn't really sure if Dutch was slowly becoming insane, or the jobs we were doing were just so dangerous because it's a game.
Never played RDR2 but it's really annoying how the narrative is saying something but gameplay is showing another thing.

On example of this that I absolutely HATED was KH2. The Hollow Bastion part. Anyone who's played the game knows what I'm talking about. There's a part where Sora gets stopped by some shitty Heartless you fight like they were nothing near the beginning of the game. Despite Sora almost being a demigod by that point, he acts like he can't do shit to them in a cutscene. So fucking stupid and lazy.

The reason I don't like the term for a gameplay loop is that a game does not need to have a core gameplay loop. Its not an inherent part of video games. This is especially apparent when you consider games which contain multiple game modes. You can't say the core gameplay loop of Splatoon is trying to cover as much terrain as possible while shooting the enemy because the other game modes don't play like that. Then you have broader games like Animal Crossing. What the fuck is the core gameplay loop of animal crossing?

Because pre 2010s you boomers just bought what the magazines told you to

soo is this a yuri thread or no, because if so it could use some more yuri

No wonder zoomer pseuds love the term
Why just simply say the genre of the game when instead you can write a pseud thesis that would make your hack English professor bluch

Nah, a more apt description would be
>Gameplay in DMC is using a large variety of moves to beat up large groups of enemies for points that you can use to upgrade your character and buy new moves for more killing

Loops would be something like
>Primary loop is attacking enemies until you knock them down or launch them with potential combos for more damage, broken up by dodges, parries and counters
>On top of that there's a loop of building your style meter as quickly as possible with constant aggression and varied moves and not letting it drop or reset for as long as possible for more points
>On top of that you go from fight to fight building up points that you can use to upgrade your character and buy new moves
>On top of that there's basic exploration of going from place to place and using items at the appropriate place

It segments the very general term "gameplay" into components and lets you see what relationship they have with each other, and how different levels of gameplay reinforce each other. In action games from the 80's and 90's you would mostly have the primary and secondary loops because they were linear and had little to no progression. Now you have those basic loops also being reinforced with over-arching progression and other bits of gameplay tying them all together. This kind of view is necessary to examine modern games which mix a lot of different genres together which is why the term is becoming more and more popular.

Literally every game has a gameplay loop.

You could say that each game mode has a different gameplay loop.

And honestly, a "gameplay loop" is something that's really underrated in terms of what makes a game good. It's what really focuses the game imo and games without a loop, like God of War, always suffered for it because it had no real structure to it as opposed to something like DMC.

Core gameplay loop of Animal Crossing is going to the island to farm the expensive bugs

Yes hello is this yuri!?

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This deserves a n*gger edit.

Game play loops are a juvenile term used by stunted and misdirected designers (western ones) who think game play itself is not rewarding and must be rewarded with scores of some type as opposed to the game itself being the fulfilling part of the experience. It looks at game play as padding and the pay off being the shiny number at the end the reward. It's why Western games haven't been good for 30 years and anything good has been a fluke.

Gameplay loop is just a verbose way to describe the genre whole stroking your ego

You could say the same thing about almost everything INCLUDING "gameplay" since even different difficulty modes have different gameplay, nevermind gameplay loops. Core loop is something you do most of the time, it's the basic set of game mechanics and interactions. If a game has modes that change the mechanics and interactions like Splatoon supposedly does then it has different core loops for each game mode. If you're not autistic you just look at it and use the term according what's most useful for examining a game, what's the problem?

When I think of Japanese games, I instanly think of scores and numbers, even where it's not needed, like all Platinum games having trophies/medals for each encounter. Not that there's anything wrong with that

Those are used to grade progress, not be payoff in and of themselves. Platinum is also a mediocre studio and you need to play better games.

Jap games are far more score oriented you dumb fuck, they're the ones who made all the arcade games worth a shit. Looking at score as independent from enjoyment you get from a game is absolutely retarded, it's always been there. You think pinball would be as successful if it was just a ball and flippers with no score goals, structure or failure/victory states either implicit or explicit? Fuck outta here

I don't have a problem with the term "gameplay loop" I have a problem with trying to apply the term to every game with the "core gameplay loop." Some games use gameplay loops very heavily, like MMOs or first person shooters. Some games use them very little, and some like Animal Crossing hardly use them at all.

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You came up with this random stereotype (Western games relying on scoring, Japanese games have intrinsic rewards) with literally not a single bit of proof. You also assumed my entire taste in games based on an example I used

Why should a board solely intended for discussing videogames avoid using videogame design terminology when discussing videogames? Deliberately avoiding using the terms when you know full well what they mean doesn’t help strengthen your arguments. Yea Forums is also anonymous, so you gain nothing by purposely hamstringing yourself by not using them, as there’s no point in trying to paint yourself as a simple man of the earth who don’t need no learned man’s words.

Deliberately avoiding using a word to describe the thing you’re trying to describe out of a misplaced effort to avoid coming across as a pseudo-intellectual or a tryhard doesn’t strengthen your argument, it doesn’t help your point and it doesn’t make you seem humble. You’re letting yourself get peer pressured into talking a certain way for god knows what reason on a fucking anonymous imageboard. Grow a fucking backbone and say what you mean to say. Who cares if you get some (you)s from slackjawed retards on this site accusing you of wrongthink for using a naughty word they heard on youtube.

>I have a problem with trying to apply the term to every game with the "core gameplay loop."
Is this something you're seeing a lot?

>ith literally not a single bit of proof
the proof is implicit, play more Japanese games
>You also assumed my entire taste in games based on an example I used
No, I just judged your example. Play better games now and quit getting upset.

See And try to prove me wrong you pseud

Every single one of you right now is exactly like joseph anderson when he was talking that dumb shit like "Hurrr I hate when people say 'responsive controls' like duh they're responsive, you hit a button and it does something. All game controls are responsive."

Thats you right now with your little meme spewing angst against descriptors. Wish I had the image.

Dilate.

>the proof is implicit, play more Japanese games
Give examples or else you're shitposting and I'll stop responding

I never played Animal Crossing but I assume it's more of a sandbox than a game right? Gameplay loops aren't a very useful tool to look at sandboxes because they have very different priorities and types of design compared to games, it'd be a bit like talking about the "work loops" in photoshop. But with more traditional, structured games with winning and losing, clear goals, and so on, they're perfectly apt.

the entire stg genre, japanese rpgs as a whole, the majority of 3D action games, the best puzzle games, the best fighters.

I always took 'clunky' controls to mean imprecise, delayed, or unresponsive controls. Aiming in Resident Evil is clunky because you don't have a full range of movement, you can just aim in an up, neutral, or down pose. Castlevania feels clunky because, compared even to other platformers at the time, being unable to control your jump in midair was considered a lack of control.

But I would argue that traditional structured games aren't that common anymore. Most games these days try to mix up the gameplay to keep things interesting. We are no longer in the era of generic 2d platformers and rpgs.

I'm sorry, did I misunderstand something. These are all score-based games. You named stg games but those are all score-based. What's a JRPG if not stat-based? In a fighting game the goal is to win as much as possible, and this is a score, same with puzzles (with the goal often being to solve them as quickly/in as little moves as possible)

>You’re letting yourself get peer pressured into talking a certain way
As if that would happen in Yea Forums

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No one has been able to prove this wrong
Get fucked zoomer psueds

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You could argue that the daily routine of starting the game up, farming the money rocks, checking the store, talking to villagers and doing their chores, etc. is the gameplay loop. If that was the core gameplay loop, AC has a very loose one. I’d argue that core gameplay loop isn’t a very good term because it needs its scope immediately whittled down to describe what you’re actually trying to describe, because another user could’ve easily come along and described the core gameplay loop as something that takes up 30 seconds of play instead of the ~30 minutes I described.

Shamiko is weak and her anime is pretty weak too

>These are all score-based games
a fundamental misunderstanding
>You named stg games but those are all score-based
score tracked, not based
>What's a JRPG if not stat-based
combat system defines more than the numbers
>In a fighting game the goal is to win as much as possible
amateur level thesis
>same with puzzles
astute observation for a log, but anyone with a brain will tell you satisfaction comes from more than the score. You have a very poor understanding of games and game design. Watch less videos, play more games.

Describe the "core gameplay loop" of these games.

Never played animal crossing, but if it's similar to stardew valley then it's core gameplay loop is walking, using tools and talking to people. It even has a clearly defined bigger loop of days where you have to optimize your core loop to fit your day loop in the best possible way

I don't even understand how this relates to Western vs Japan. There's puzzle and action games in both countries. You should really expand more on your points instead of being such a condescending asshole

Well alright let me be blunt, by traditional I mean actual GAMES not aimless sandbox toys. Anything with structure, goals, win/lose states, and so on. It doesn't matter if the game is a complex open world action rpg with dozens of layers of progression and overlapping goals it will still have many different gameplay loops that reinforce each other, and a core loop which eventually emerges since you will inevitably fall into a pattern. And besides even without a clear core loop, looking at gameplay loops is useful.

You can literally just use animal crossing as a fashion designing game if you want. It doesn't make you do anything.

>Tfw my argument is undefeated

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Shamiko is best girl of the season

The problem with "core gameplay loop" is that it really only applies to western games, and really only some western games, because so many publishers are making shitty kill n loot games like Borderlands that are meant to be eternal grinds. You can't talk about the "gameplay loop" of games not designed this way without being retarded and getting really broad, and at that point you're just sniffing your own farts because no one wants to see you describe a game in broad strokes because who the fuck cares?

>loops

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It’ll stay undefeated if you post more of that kind of stuff.

Define "score based" vs "score gets tracked" without using muddy subjective non-definitions. Because in STGs and jap 3D action games the scoring isn't "just tracked" it encourages a certain kind of playstyle to get good scores, and oftentimes has rewards including tangible ones like access to extra loops in shmups or items/currency/weapons in modern action games.

What kind of stuff?

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Stuff s2 when

>video games

>I don't even understand how this relates to Western vs Japan
The West designs games a certain way, uses manipulative psychology (as documented by valve, treyarch, infinity ward, activision, blizzard, epic, riot, etc.) and builds its design around short term pay off with simplistic rewards built into loops of repetitive game play instead of fulfilling core game play. I listed genres which rely on fulfilling core game play, you don't understand why they are that way and think it is because some other motivator - you have a very poor grasp on game design for this reason.
>You should really expand more on your points instead of being such a condescending asshole
You need to be condescended to. You're basically begging for it with how little you know. Watch less videos, play more games.

>it's an easy read

Technically there is a "core gameplay 'loop'" but people are really bad at defining what that is AND they are just as bad at identifying it.

"Core gameplay" is supposed to be the LOWEST base "game" that you can achieve some sort of enjoyment with.
Mario's "Core Gameplay" is literally just moving and jumping.
Usually these Youtube chuckle-fucks are only looking at the surface level.

I think that they just add the word "loop" becaue their programmer friend said it once or twice.

>zoomer coomer doomer boomer cringe based
Shut the FUCK up retard. Gameplay loop has been a term for longer than this sites existence and each one isn't locked to the genre.
I hope this thread is ironic because all these terms are legitimate words used to describe a game or a narrative in general.

What game

You just created a differentiation between "score tracked" and "score based" that only exists inside YOUR thick skull
Would you care to let us in on the secret so we can debate with you?

What you described isn't a problem with gameplay loops, it's a problem with progression mechanics and other extrinsic overarching systems that are there to foster addiction. They are very common in japanese games even though the west is admittedly leading the way.

>t encourages a certain kind of playstyle to get good scores
Yes, a play style that is inherently fun. You're almost there. Next you'll think it encourages grazing as a means to get more points despite that being a tertiary result.

Except there are parts of Mario where you don't jump or your method of movement or goal for movement greatly changes. For example, in Mario Galaxy there are levels where you play as a spring and levels where you roll on a ball.

The core gameplay loop of splatoon is win matches in order to level up to use more weapons/gain more powerful equipment, which are conversely used to win more matches against better players until, theoretically, you are #1. The gameplay is the matches, which as you said, varies depending on stages and game modes, but regardles of what gamemodes you play the "core gameplay loop" remains the same. All gameplay is done in service of getting better gear/weapons/ranks.

>first person shooter
games can't be in first person, what is this a book?

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Do you need money to be a fashion designer? Also, just because you can do something doesn't mean the game was designed for you to do only that. I can pick any game and just run back and forth between two points forever, that doesn't make it it's core gameplay loop (heh)

See

No, you can design and share outfits without paying.

"Inherently fun" is a dumb buzzword when you don't have an actual argument. Getting loot while brainlessly clicking on enemies in Diablo is "inherently fun" because it triggers a quick dopamine release and keeps you going with compulsion, doesn't make it any less shit. Grazing is the most tranny-tier score mechanic you could have picked, unless we're talking about Psyvariar that shit sucks dick and isn't fun at all

So, would you say that's part of the "Core Gameplay" with the "Core" part emphasized?

I mean, Link sometimes shoots gems with a bow and arrow.

Just because a game tracks a score doesn't mean it's built around it dum dum, it's not hard to read, is it?
>They are very common in japanese games
how?

>matches are gameplay now
Jesus what's wrong with kids today?

The problem with "core gameplay loop" is that retards like you have no idea what it means, but think they do
>DMC
>all soulslikes
>any JRPG ever
>any fighting game ever
>any vn ever
>touhou
>monster hunter
>pacman
>every single mario
>all pokemon games
Literally all of those have a core gameplay loop

The other guy made some very good points so I won't repeat him.
None of what you claim to be exclusive to Western games is exclusive to the West. For every game with manipulative psychology made in the West, I can name one made in Japan (see: the entire gacha and pachinko genre, the wealth of time-sucking JRPG's and MMO's like Monster Hunter and Pokemon)

At the same time, what game do you play more for the sake of playing then the classic "sony movie game"? You're not scored on that; I suppose it's just the joy of seeing the story/graphics. There's also the open world genre, which exists in both spheres but is hugely popular in the west. People will play GTA just to drive around and enjoy the gameplay.

>inb4 shit taste in games
I'm using popular examples just because they seem the most obvious. Anyone will probably know what they play like

I think this is my problem personally with the usage of gameplay loop. Perhaps I'm mistaken but it feels like people describing gameplay loops seem to inherently believe they're good design when in many cases it's just a Skinner box created to flood your brain with easy dopamine hits. I really hate people who play games primarily for these "rewards" and ensuing dopamine release because it feels so shallow. Its not inherently a bad thing for design to cause your brain to release dopamine but I don't think it should be the goal either. Its just so simple and basic and i feel like games should strive to be more than an alternative to Coca-Cola.

The core gameplay of splatoon is moving and shooting things.

The JRPG genre as a whole literally runs on constant level ups, stat increases, new gear, new abilities, new party members while the combat remained the same simple shit for decades. Tons even reward you for doing unfun shit like grinding with rare drops and other goodies. Why do you think people get so upset when games have hardcore level scaling? They think all of that time they spend playing is "for nothing".

>Getting loot while brainlessly clicking on enemies in Diablo is "inherently fun"
No, that's a manipulative skinner box. Battle Garegga is a thrilling game to engage with due to how much you need to track at any one time, manage your bombs and their usage, and dodge shot patterns.
>Grazing is the most tranny-tier score mechanic you could have picked
proving my point.

Describe the "core gameplay loop" of DMC and Dark Souls.

Also I'm not trying to imply Western games >>> Japanese games, just trying to make some autist on the internet eat his hat

I don't agree that the 3d Mario games have a core gameplay loop. They like to mix things up a lot. They only have a core gameplay loop on an extremely broad level like go in a level and try to earn a star. You're right that JRPGs are very heavy on them though.

How would you describe the core gameplay loop of touhou without only describing its gameplay? Same with VN.

You dont have to shoot in Splatoon you can use a roller or paintbrush. You also don't have to aim for hostility in Splatoon because you can focus on painting the terrain.

Not him, but I want to give that question a try.

You move, dodge, defend against, and attack various enemies with various weapons

>The JRPG genre as a whole literally runs on constant level ups
Nope, it runs on increasingly engaging combat encounters. Level ups are a tertiary reward that may fuel better combat encounters, or as a cushion for struggling players.
>stat increases
see above
>new gear
see above
>new abilities
see above
>new party members
see above
>while the combat remained the same simple shit for decades
Oh, it's one of those people who thinks they "know" the genre but hasn't played anything beyond pokemon and paper mario. Not even worth talking with.

Was the game meant to be played like that or are you running from point A to point B and back like in previous example?
Doesn't matter because in both cases there are still core gameplay loops, desihing clothing or doing whatever else you can be doing with a side activity of desiging clothing

There’s no way I’m typing up an essay contrasting these five games against each other because I’d be here all night, but Fallout 4’s loop of “get quest > shoot up location > pick up trash to build dollhouses” contrasts pretty hard with the generic Ubisoft sandbox loop of “climb tower > check off to-do list that spawned on minimap > move on”. I’m being really reductive with both games (especially Far Cry), but I hope it still illustrates my point.

For an example of two games in the same genre with different gameplay loops, compare Dwarf Fortress and Rollercoaster Tycoon. Both are simulation games, but Dwarf Fortress is centered around creating work orders and enabling jobs for the dwarves, while Rollercoaster Tycoon puts that control directly in your hands as you go plopping down rides, paths and vendors without being at the mercy of your workers.

A better example might be Fallout 4 and Deus Ex. Both are unquestionably shooter RPG hybrids, but Fallout 4’s structure is completely different from the way Deus Ex is put together.

That's the default stance of game design, it has no strong moral aspect to it, it's simply about what maximizes short term pleasure for players, keeps them invested and generates profit. Most developers will see addictive gameplay loops as a positive simply because it makes their game more addictive (fun) to most people. If you dislike that then congrats we're on the same page, you're attempting to moralize and limit game design as a field, welcome to the club enjoy your stay. Too bad most of the club is commie landwhales with rainbow colored hair.

There is no context where you would need to use "core gameplay loop" over gameplay. Nobody fucking asks "how's the core gameplay loop?" At best they would ask "what do you do?" and not sound like pretentious wannabe devs.

The fact that you need to write an essay to describe a genre should show you that you are wrong

It would still be a Splatoon game even if they removed the paintbrush.
I do agree that painting the terrain is part of the core though.

Fuck off. Shamiko becomes to /vr/ as a NES owner.

>engaging combat encounters
>constant spam of trash encounters that are beaten with the same braindead strategy only broken up by some boss fights which can be ok
Why do JRPG fans always deny this, do you think nobody besides you snowflakes played your games?

Your explanation works for Fallout 4 and every Ubisoft game ever made because they're inherently really grindy, but when you start talking about dorf fortress and Roller Coaster tycoon you devolve into just describing the game in purely broad strokes. Fallout 4 might have a "gameplay loop" but Deus Ex definitely doesn't.

The genre of the game is irrelevant. The core gameplay loop is what you are rewarded with as the player for playing the game. For example, splatoon could be a game where you go into matches and play the game as it currently is, but instead of being rewarded with ranks or new gear, you are given Lego bricks to take back to your house and build Lego structures. It's still a third person shooter, but now the core gameplay loop is about grinding multiplayer matches to finish a death star replica. Much shittier of a game, obviously, but the Lego bricks recontextualize the gameplay, without changing it.

>when you play one SMT game once

Did we play the same game?

The core concept of "game design" is to identify the lowest base core gameplay element and make that fun.
Splatoon obviously is a game in which the player can move around and shoot.
What they shoot, is irrelevant to the core gameplay, because if the actions of moving and shooting are not good, then you can't continue to layer the game.

You should also maybe use the word "attack" instead of shoot because of the brush and bucket

Yes and you suicide, carefully manage bombs for milks, manipulate rank in general, and so on to increase score. It's integrated with the gameplay to make it more engaging, which is what being score based means. "Keeping track of score" is some dumb shit where you play the games like you normally would but the game just adds some scores for each kill until you die. Doesn't affect your gameplay or make it more fun, it's just being kept track of.

But you don't have to shoot
You dont have to attack, I have many times played games without attacking anyone

you'd get mad at someone calling a bunch of food a meal instead of food

The brush and buckets aren't part of the core gameplay though.
Splatoon IS a shooter.

Attacking the ground is an attack and in turf war, the ground is the target

This is just.. a broad strokes generalization of the game that doesn't say anything. You do this in literally every game in which you fight enemies.

so, you shoot the ground?

go suck your nigger friends' dicks faggot

I agree, I explicitly stated that the gameplay is the matches, wherein you move and shoot. I'm just saying the gameplay loop is the context for why you would play the game at all.

Not with the brush, roller or bucket lmfao. This is semantics. I agree with you

"Collecting stars" is not a core gameplay loop of 3d marios. It's walking, running, diving, wall jumping, throwing your hat, using your gadgets

>how would you list the most used words in this book without listing words in this book
Touhou - move yourself around the screen (to dodge the attacks), shoot
VN - click through dialogue, occasionally making a decision

Someone has it

I played most of the series, with the exception of SRPG spinoffs like Devil Survivor they're all like this. But they're also more engaging than most JRPG's because they force you to remake your party a lot and start using different combat tactics. Other dungeon crawlers are even worse, Etrian Odyssey hands out new abilities at a snail's pace

The level design pattern that Nintendo uses constantly in 3D Marios, where they introduce a gimmick at the beginning of a platforming gauntlet and build upon it for the rest of the level, before discarding it between levels for a new one, easily falls under the term core gameplay loop. Core gameplay loop is kind of a shitty term though, because the mini games you’re describing (like Galaxy’s tilts ball levels, right?) could also get handwaved away as having their own interior gameplay loop as opposed to the large scale one I described. The way I see it core gameplay loop sucks dick because the moment it comes out of your mouth you need to immediately expand on it to communicate what you’re even talking about. Even when the other guy already knows the term.

Because that's how it works.

>Ok moving and jumping is good
>Lets add some turtles and see how that is
>Lets add the ability to power up to take more hits.

Every good game has a good base and mods based on that.

Actually, in turf war you shoot the other team to facilitate covering more ground. In the end, the ground is the #1 target and killing the other team is just a means to that end

Okay so in the context of non-game devs talking about a game after release/as it's releasing it's just a more pretentious way of talking about gameplay while also saying less, gotcha.

The fact that Fallout 4 has a gameplay loop and Deus Ex doesn’t (it does, but it isn’t as tidy as Fallout 4’s) is proof enough that the terms core gameplay loop and genre aren’t interchangeable.

A good game to me is one that has something you may do over and over but remains relatively satisfying each time.

>DMC
Dodge enemy attacks, attack them back, launch them if you can, while attacking string together some combos until you drop them, the enemy dies or you get interrupted, repeat on most non boss encounters

Like I said 5 times I'm not denying the existence of gameplay loops, just core gameplay loops. Gameplay loops are useful options for game design but the whole game should not be designed around one central game design, if it is that's just lazy and boring. We aren't on the NES anymore, games can have variety and complexity.

The word isn't used because it's an arbitrarily drawn out and redundant way of phrasing an existing term differently even though it leads to no different definition.

He's an unironic alcoholic

>Like I said 5 times I'm not denying the existence of gameplay loops, just core gameplay loops.
That position makes absolutely no sense. If you think gameplay loops exist, then you must also realize that some are given higher or lower priority, and that some you engage with more some you engage with less. Based on this the existence of a core loop is inevitable. The only alternative is that all loops are equally emphasized and equally important, which is just not true.

Can this poster possibly be more predictable

Its, "LUDO narrative dissonance" you pleb.

The problem is that "Core gameplay loop" doesn't mean anything more than "You do the same actions multiple times while playing". That's the issue.
It's nothing more than trying to sound smart when stating something incredibly obvious. Almost EVERY game has some form of repetition to it, so the term has absolutely no value to it.

I agree with the sentiment but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making games with a single simple gameplay loop if that’s the type of game they want to make. Devil Daggers, Pac-Man Championship Edition and Dance Dance Revolution are all really fun but they don’t have much variety or complexity.

>how would you list the most used words in this book without listing words in this book
Because you're just describing poorly the gameplay of those games. The "Core gameplay loop" concept doesn't add any value to any game discussion and thus the concept shouldn't be used except for giggles.

Some games change the gameplay heavily while you play or give you many different options for how to play. I feel these games are better than games where you merely do the same shit under different circumstances for 30 hours.

>first person shooter
>game is not narrated from your characters perspective

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Kill
Loot
Return
That’s what the super mutants say about Fallout 4

>Game Feel

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>"core gameplay loop"
For what it's worth this is a term I have been using for years, before fucking youtube even existed. It's mostly relevant in complex games like RPGs when the cycles can be broken down into obvious phases like preparation, exploration, combat, and recovery; and each phase is worth considering separately. D&D's vancian magic is weighted towards the preparation phase while MP systems are mostly combat and recovery.
The other times it comes up again usually in any game (but again especially RPGs) where story and cutscene content are fucking in the way and preventing you from getting to the core gameplay loop.
It's more specific than gameplay. Some people are capable of using a vocabulary of more than a dozen words. If a game has an hour's worth of cutscenes with lots quicktime events and other dumb one-off minigames, that counts as "gameplay" but is probably not part of a core gameplay loop.
The cringe term is "ludonarrative dissonance." This term does have meaning but personally I've never found good reason to use it. Narrative dissonance is usually trivially justified by "gameplay should be entertaining" and bending over backwards to avoid it is stupid. No one actually cares about narrative dissonance.

Ofcourse I'm "predictable" since I'm stating facts which are obvious to everyone who's not a JRPG fanboy in denial.

There's a difference between a gameplay loop and progressing in the game.

Examples:
Getting moons in Odyssey that allow you to get to later stages to get more moons isn't a gameplay loop. Do you think you should just have the entire game open at once without any semblance of a story? The actual gameplay is entirely up to the player, there is no loop.

Any game which is based on stages really, such as Crash Bandicoot has no gameplay loop. You play the game and as you play it gets harder, that's it.

This is an entirely business-rooted term, it subverts what gaming used to be in favor of nu-age indie and corporate garbage lacking innovation and inspiration.

Only retards that can't be bothered to use their heads and only care about appearing intelligent parrot these terms as if they have any significance outside of the same things they circlejerk against in other threads.

Half the people here don't even understand what core gameplay loop means.

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It's funny when somebody starts bringing up examples of gameplay loops and clearly doesn't understand the term

Tfw you watch a youtube video and you're suddenly 200 iq
Wish I wasn't banned from youtube bros it's not fair

>It's more specific than gameplay
But this very thread proves the opposite.

>atmosphere

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>Ofcourse I'm "predictable"
At least you know it, play more games you don't seem to know anything about the genre.

Very few games change their gameplay so heavily to not have a loop, they are typically collections of mini games or something similar. Games have a consistent base set of mechanics and general moment to moment goal like kill enemy that shoots at you or jump from x to y, as long as these exist loops will emerge. And even if there exist some exceptions they are just that - exceptions.

If anything Japanese games have traditionally been much better at core gameplay loops.

>gameplay
>fun
>challenge

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No it doesn't.

Probably because they aren't loops

I've beaten several dozens of JRPG's, played even more. These games are just the most highly recommended ones among more "hardcore" fans, along with hipster mechanal clusterfucks like Vagrant Story and Last Remnant. Tell me what game should I play to finally be able to judge JRPG's accurately? What's the cream of the crop ultra engaging masterpiece of game design that I've overlooked for all this time?

Your IQ is below 80, isn't it?

>I've beaten several dozens of JRPG's, played even more
You sure have

You're looking at it from a Product Management prospective in breaking things down into features rather than from a design prospective.
I like your approach because it gets stuff done, though.

Core gameplay
>Shoot
>move

Supplementary gameplay
>Kill enemies
>Level up

Restrictive gameplay
>reload
>boundaries

"Loops" isn't inherently a negative word

This
Just because the whole games runs on what programmers call a "game loop" doesn't mean that everything has to be cyclical.

>what's the "core gameplay loop" of X
>proceeds to use a broad description of X's gameplay that could be used for any game of the same genre
Pretty much a useless term.

Like trope it sells the ingenuity of humans short and pigeon holes elaborate concepts into digestible marketing points that betray what they are really about.

I don't think so. Nobody doubts the majesty of our planet's oceans, lakes, and rivers just because there's a water "cycle"

For app devs, you'll often hear things like,
"runloop" or "runtime loop"

But it is cyclical, the situations reset. But just because it follows a general pattern and resets doesn't mean the specifics are the same. And those specifics are the most important

Unlike game play, there is an observable loop at play there which can be defined and predicted.

Exactly. Anyone above average can tell this came straight from the heart of a businessman, not a developer.

Name one game that doesn't involve doing the same thing over and over. Halo you shoot stuff. Mario you run and jump through levels. Zelda you explore and find keys and kill stuff. A game with no loop would just be an everything game with no actual set of mechanics.
You seem to think that "loop" means you're playing the same exact content over and over again or that the game has to be repetitive and lack variety but that's just not true at all.
And yes, the fact that games are programmed with loops DOES mean everything is cyclical, that's literally what cyclical means. It's true by definition

Yes it does. You don't shoot any guns, you don't enter a slowmo and cut enemies into precise pieces, you don't sneak, you don't slide, webswing or walljump. You don't move jewels around. You don't increase a combo counter. You don't drive a car. You don't build a prison. You don't collect powerups.

Just saying what's the core loop is half the work, then you have to explain the intricacies of it. Both DMC and Dark Souls have pretty similar core loops with vastly differing details.
You can just say "matte orange, with gold rims and a black spoiler" (the details) without specifying if it's a ferrari, a punto or a wheelchair (the broad description)

Most games within a genre use the same basic mechanics, so they will have a similar game loop. That's also not true, I don't know if zoomers still get these shovelware 3D action-adventure platformers with collectathon elements but those games have beat 'em up combat loops without being beat 'em ups.

What is wrong with this phrase other than the fact that you're a jaded faggot who gets angry when people try to articulate anything in ways other than ironic detachment?

>in game x you push a button therefore the entire thing is a loop!
Ever stop and re-read whatever dumb shit you're saying and not hit post?

Literally everything has a loop if you randomly generalize some actions/events that take place more than once in it.
Mario: Run and jump to the flag, run and jump to the flag
Zelda: Puzzle room, fight room, puzzle room, fight room...
Call of Duty: Shoot guys, run to next waypoint...

"Core Gameplay Loop" is bullshit terminology made up by braindead fucks who want to sound like the gameplay choices have some smart long-term cohesive meaning and aren't really just "these are the things your character is capable of, so we put them in situations that require use of them".

>the entire thing is a loop
Literally nobody is saying this. A loop can exist without the "entire thing" being a loop. If one loop is very prominent you can refer to it as the core loop

Doing anything in a game is gameplay.
Doing several different things in a game is a gameplay loop.
Gameplay loops are made up of gameplay.
Like, if I'm shooting at a dude, it's gameplay, but if I'm shooting him, looting him, crafting stuff from him, selling the rest, before going out to shoot some more - that's the gameplay loop. It's several different parts of gameplay combined.

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Loop just communicates that the subject is repetitive, cyclical or periodic. For many games it’s an appropriate way of describing the pattern of play taken when engaging with them. Loop (or gameplay loop in this thread’s case) by itself has no negative or positive connotation because it’s almost entirely without context. It’s like the sentence “it is”. It’s a grammatically correct sentence but without the context of a conversation it means nothing.

NES games are all built on endlessly repeating the core gameplay loop.

/g/ here literally every single game is a loop

You can observe, define and predict gameplay loops as well by watching players do their thing and noticing patterns. People don't have to do it with every little thing because they can anticipate logicially and intuitively while making assumptions. In fact that's one of the marks of a great game designer, they are able to predict and assume how people will play their games, how they will feel while playing and optimize it to make it as fun as possible.

>"the game will get better, we promise"
>[developer] updates their roadmap by deleting their roadmap

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I'm the guy you replied to.
I agree with you for the most part.

Are you literally saying there is no visually determinable gameplay routine in any given video game? Is this the pedantic faggotry we're getting into now?

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If you're in ANY project in an office environment and nobody has a product roadmap, quit.

>term I don't understand

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wtf i love minecraft now

You use the term WHEN the primary repetitive cycle of the game is relevant to the discussion. If it's not, you don't use it. If you're using it in every discussion you're probably just being a pretentious asshole but if you're not using it ever it probably means you're too dumb to use words with meanings and just grunt like a chimp.

100%, stop using pussy footing terms like game play loop

To be fair the entire point of this thread has been arguing semantics. Things were inevitably going to get pedantic as anons start whittling this thing to its rhetorical nub.

Hence the term of art is "core gameplay loop" which is intended to describe the most prominent and important repeated cycle (occasionally cycles) in a game. It's a term used sometimes by people with brains to compare and contrast games.

Then you are a fool, and you are wrong.

> std::cout goto /g/

Yet another postmodern dumbass who doesn't understand how language works.

Your core gameplay loop does nothing but suck infinite cocks.

Generalizations are for the fool, you are afraid.

while (youStillPost) {
std::cout

I'm only familiar with a game loop in programming. As an example, is the core gameplay loop of Super Mario Bros. beating the level to go to the next level, and then beating that level to go to the next level?

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That's a compiler error I'm pretty sure

>POST DEVELOPMENT ACCURATE CODE
>STOP POSTING PSUDOCODE

You dropped your ;

Basically. It's kind of vague and subjective how high/low level you say the "core" loop is. But loops are obviously everywhere. You could say the core loop of mario is beat level, going to next level, or you could say it's run forwards, encounter obstacle, traverse obstacle using running/jumping, repeat. And if you really wanted to you could try and go deeper and deeper or you could go higher level, although Mario is such a simple example it's hard to do so.

>gameanalytics.com/blog/how-to-perfect-your-games-core-loop.html

>The core gameplay loop is comprised of some of the basic actions players can take at any point in time, the main mechanics. We expect the player to use them at a certain frequency and conceptually arrange them in a cycle. That’s run and jump in a runner, swap gems and plan in a match-3, etc. Take a rogue-like: the core gameplay loop might resemble something like walk, attack, collect. That’s what you keep doing from moment to moment.
>At the same time, the users have higher-level goals that build upon the lower-level ones. A higher-level game loop might be:
>Enter a new room (discover its content)
>Kill all the enemies
>Get rewards

It's more along the lines of
>mario goes to the right
>mario encounters obstacle (be it enemy, pit, platforms, etc...)
>mario must decide how he will overcome said obstacle
>mario must actually do the correct button inputs to pull the maneuver off
>all of this must happen quickly because of the time limit
and then it loops that cycle over and over again

>You could say the core loop of mario is beat level, going to next level,
This is objectively correct.
>or you could say it's run forwards, encounter obstacle, traverse obstacle using running/jumping, repeat
This is pretentious hipster talk only used by faggots of the highest caliber.

This is the lowest IQ thread I've seen in a long time, holy shit guys get it together.

>Not using an IDE or compiler that fills that shit in for you.
I feel for you user, no joke, if you actually still have to place semicolons everywhere.

Dutch was slowly going insane. It’s pretty firmly established by every single cutscene in the latter half of the game.

I'm sorry, but you don't get to decide what these terms mean

Dumb shammers

I will exercise my right to call dumb hipster faggots "faggots", thank you.

thanks fatshark

>OP makes a 3-word greentext
>thread reaching thread limit
10/10 bait.

Exactly. For another example of something that's not part of the core gameplay loop, it's long-term objectives. "Defeat Ganon and save Zelda" is not a gameplay loop. The world layout is not a gameplay loop.

>Ring the Bells of Awakening, get lordvessel, fill it with souls, defeat Gwyn.
Not a gameplay loop
>Fight through levels until you find a key objective and unlock the next objective.
A gameplay loop, but not the core gameplay loop. If you were going to put a label on this it might be a macro loop or something but it's rarely worth using the term..
>Rest and prepare at bonfire, explore the next area, overcoming enemies you encounter in combat, try to reach next bonfire (or major objective) without dying.
Core gameplay loop
>try to break enemy guard or wait to spot tell, then block or dodge, then retaliate in vulnerability window.
Core combat loop (crudely articulated).

Why would you have a problem with this phrase?
It's not a buzzword, it's not politically charged, and it's not even unnecessarily verbose. All the words in the phrase are descriptive. You can't pare it down without losing meaning.
"Gameplay" is self explanatory, "Loop" means that the gameplay changes in a cyclical way, "core" means it's the general gameplay loop which there might be deviations from.
The only issue with it I can find is that "core" sounds a bit like boardroom speak and "main" would get the same idea across in a less pretentious way.

okay, that's fine
developers will use their "dumb" (actually intelligent) speech to grow and make better games
and you can sit there angrily playing the fruits of their intelligence and labor thinking about how much better your games would be if you only knew how to make them

>pretentious hipster talk
The problem is that the user asked specifically to use Super Mario Brothers as an example. And yes it's probably true that only pretentious hipsters bother to talk about simple platforming games in terms of a core gameplay loop. But for more complex games where the main gameplay loop may have multiple phases that each have different design aspects worth discussing, it's not going to sound pretentious to anyone but knuckle-dragging apes.

>"dumb" (actually intelligent) speech to grow and make better games
>t. has a useless degree in game design

>The only issue with it I can find is that "core" sounds a bit like boardroom speak and "main" would get the same idea across in a less pretentious way.
Pretty sure in the wild you will see both used. Also perhaps primary if there's a secondary loop worth considering.

>game has limited time event
>event has time sensitive prizes
>once an event is over you can't get the prizes ever again
>miss an event and the prizes therein
>lose will to continue playing
surely it's not just me

It's better than "artificial difficulty" or "ludonarrative dissonance" (which would be only 2 words) because most people probably agree that are pretentious faggot terms.

You do action's, different actions. Describing these actions has value so the term you use to denote that you're describing them has value. "Shoot, move, reload" is just the core gameplay loop described in it's broadest possible sense. You can go as in-depth in describing these mechanics as you would like and it still would be describing core gameplay loop, just noone wants to bother doing it here
You move and aim and shoot and reload - a description of a core gameplay loop
The players' speed is reduced compared to other FPSes and the weapon sway is increased while moving while ADSing, however you can lean, crouch and go prone. Hipfire has a deadzone aiming system and has extreme recoil but as the weapon's aim direction and player's look direction are separate, so due to mentiomed deadzone aiming, the hipfire doesn't move the players look direction which might be a better alternative to ADSing when you might need spray a general area rather than a precise spot. There is no crosshairs, other that on the scope attachments, the only ways to judge where your hipfire will land is by equiping a laser sight attachment or by judging by your weapon's look, as they will shift slightly when they aim at different parts of your screen. Ammunition is measured by magazines, which you will cycle through, discarding the empty ones. It might be beneficial to empty a mag with 5 rounds left so discard it and don't cycle unto it later when you need some bullets. There is no ammo display but you can check the magazine's weight which will give you general information about the state of your loaded magazine, suchas "almost empty/full" or "about 3/4ths full". There's also two ways to reload, a quick one that will drop your currently loaded mag no matter what and a slow one that will keep it if it's not empty. The closed-bolt guns also store one additional bullet bla bla - ALSO a description of a core gameplay loop I could keep going but post limit

and what you have is better?

>hardcore
>challenging
>competitive
>difficult

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That second one is a really bad example of a core gameplay loop. At least, it's a bad example of why you might want to use the term. Those are mostly just mechanical descriptions of the game that might different from other games.
A better example of elements relative to a core gameplay loop in an FPS might be whether there are resources to collect on the map or whether (and where) you respawn after being killed.

Yes.

>when people use these terms for Dark Souls/Mobas/'tactical' fps

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In conclusion, if you use the phrase "core gameplay loop" you are a homosexual.

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>early days
>Based
>now
> le epic gamasutra professionals

Suicide is still on the table

This is truth. Only a fag would do something so vain

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how so

>As an example, is the core gameplay loop of Super Mario Bros. beating the level to go to the next level
At a basic level of description, yes
Mario isn't a good example, though, because you likely wouldn't use the term there, since the "core gameplay loop" basically just consists of the one gameplay mechanic of "do platforming." Basically the "core gameplay loop" IS the "gameplay" so there's no reason to use the former term.
It's more for describing games with a more involved loop. Take the stereotypical JRPG for instance, the core gameplay loop would look something like:
Buy/Equip stuff in town -> Explore overworld -> Explore dungeon Fight enemies Solve puzzles -> Fight boss -> Repeat
In this case, if you're just talking about the "gameplay" then that's basically just moving a character and navigating menus. So here the "core gameplay loop" != the "gameplay"

Better source of info than Yea Forums contrarians who never have and will never make a good game

A book has words
A movie has visuals
A game has uhh gameplay
Theres no other fucking word whether we're talking vidya, sports, or boardgames. There's no otherword to describe how a chess game plays other than "chess gameplay". Feel free to make up a new word, faggot

ITT: retards