Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important

i skip past any story in porn and go straight to the fucking

programming has nothing to do with game dev

He's right if all you want to make is doom.

He said this over twenty years ago. Even then, this stance set him apart from his contemporaries such as John Romero (and sometimes even caused friction between them). Even if he was correct then, the games market is very different now.

Retard.

Mostly. It’s perfectly fine to have a good story, but if your story sacrifices good gameplay then you change the story to make the gameplay better.

Absolutely not.

>based

>watching anything other than amateur porn
you dont really do this, do you

I like story in my porn but I don't like it in my games

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i think its more important to have an interesting and interactive environment in a videogame

sadly, real amateur vr porn doesnt exist (yet)

I only watch professionals because I don't want the people on screen to be having more fun than I do.

I only get off on cuckold porn so I will have to say he is wrong.

>HURR DURR PENIS IN VAGINA HAAAAAA
imagine being such a mongoloid that story in porn isn't crucial to you. Go hunt your dinner, cave man.

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The story should never come at the cost of gameplay. I can tolerate a sub-par story so long as it isn't forced upon the player.

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its starting to pop up, but the quality is unbelievable shit. soon.

name 3, SNOY moviegames don't count.

where do you see it popping up?

What if the story is so bad that it makes the game unplayable?

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Depends, different styles of games need different things.

he's right for some games and players, wrong for others.

doom doesn't gain much by having an expansive story, but the last of us wouldn't be much without its story and atmosphere.

deus ex without the story would also feel much less interesting, while smash bros does not need a well developed story.

>Was he right?
Yes, playing through a game with shit story but great gameplay is still better than playing vice versa.

SOMA, the wolf among us, the amnesia series (but i think TDD has good gameplay too)

i think sony movies have bad stories

I both agree, and disagree. For something like Doom, absolutely. However, there is no way I would have sunk nearly as many hours into something like Morrowind if it didn't have so much great lore behind it.
I would mostly argue that this quote was far more relevant at the time that he said it than now, but it still holds some truth to it.

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>Arbitrary qualifications
Whatever
Planescape: Torment
Dragon Age 2
Orwell

only way that happened was if it was a telltale game or something

>Was he right?
Yes... Mostly
There are games with good stories, but there are also games where the story gets in the way of gameplay. Comparing og Doom to nu-Doom is a good example. In og Doom you choose new game, difficulty and bam. You are in the game.
In the nu-Doom, you have a slow start with story stuff pushed down your throat. Someone keeps talking to you through radio all the time and Doomguy acts like "fuck story amirite guys xD". Still the story keeps playing major role through the game with cut-scenes and radio calls.
The game tries to make fun of stories getting in way of gameplay, but still does the same when compared to og Doom. In og all the story comes after the episode, and you can skip it always
Og is better

Soul Reaver 1 & 2.
Legacy of Kain: Defiance.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2.
Arguably anything by Yoko Taro but that is a matter of debate.

Have you tried any turnbase jrpgs?

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Wrong if the story is bad I can’t play it regardless of how well the gameplay is

youre a fucking weirdo

no because the build up of a porno is better than the pay off

no he wasn't right
twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/1030511549688016899

>never tried porn with riveting storytelling
The fuck fags?

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>I do still hold that the most important games have been all about the play, not the story.
absolutely based
all hail the sentient galaxy brain meme

He thinks that way because most iD games were basically tech demos.

gameplay>music>graphics>story

>The story should never come at the cost of gameplay. I can tolerate a sub-par story so long as it isn't forced upon the player.
This sums it up.
This is why the first 2 doom games are good.
And the 3rd and 4th are bad.
>DOOM (2016)
fuck off IR cuck

d44ms story made the game unplayable for you?

Not according to Yea Forums. Yea Forums loves stories in games.

>music above anything
Pleb. If you had said sound design/fx it would have been alright, but vidya music is not important in the slightest.

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Honest to God only ever happened with Infinite Undiscovery.

>hurr duurr couldnt enjoy doom2016 because of the story
Are you fucking retarded?

>System Shock 2 is that low.
The fuck?

>tfw watch nothing but Oscar-worthy movies everyday

Not him, but the story keeps getting stuffed down your throat and people keep talking to you through radio.
Compare to Doom 1 and 2

The best porn games are the ones with good story, so no he was absolutely wrong.

yes

A boomer opinion. There are tons of games with shitty gameplay popular for their stories

You can turn the voice down if the voices bothers you.

>straight male
>knows porn
it really does

lmao what? i play doom 2 mods weekly and i have no fucking clue what your problem is, d44m barely has cutscenes

THIS. I wanna know exactly how the chad bull steals my non-existent girlfriend away from me and how she thinks I'm a pathetic beta

seething

I'm a full-time wagecuck, can't play any of those.

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Well not exactly. Flash games like m33t n fuk generally have pretty decent plot to get me worked up.
On the other hand, jap games like raplay (forgot the name but the one where you make your own 3d girl) has no plot but is still a great game.

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Where does Monster girl quest fit into this?
Everytime it's mentioned i see variations of "Came to the porn, stayed for the story."

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Depends on the game

>Lol turn the story content off because its bad
Then why have a bad story?

Start og Doom and D44m and compare which game lets you control your character first.
Doom 1
>Click New Game and choose difficulty
>In game and no cutscenes at all
D44m
>Long ass loadtime
>Intro-cutscene
>Small gameplay
>Another mini cutscene and you are stuck in the room for a while
>After it another cutscene when you get armor and look at the security system relay
>Then DoomSlayer "le epicly pushes the screen away because fuck interruptions right guys? xD"
>Meanwhile you have cleared first stage of Doom 1
>Now you can finally play D44m
>And enjoy the "stuck in the arena until you kill all enemies"-simulator
It ain't fun. I had high hopes for it but its just a game where story is pushed to you while it tries to laugh at games which do that.

He's utterly wrong in my eyes but I can respect a man who sticks to his ideals.

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Yes.

Playing a bad game for the story is like watching bad porn for the plot. Since you clearly don't care about what makes a game "a game" and what makes porn "porn", then why the hell not simply watch proper movies or read a book?

>>Intro-cutscene
>>Small gameplay
>>Another mini cutscene and you are stuck in the room for a while
>>After it another cutscene when you get armor and look at the security system relay
>>Then DoomSlayer "le epicly pushes the screen away because fuck interruptions right guys? xD"
this takes less than 5 minutes and the story is less than %5 of D44M

Movies and books still don't have graphic sex or interactivity

>

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>game has few cutscene
>some exposition via voice overs
>can control voice levels
>URRR WHY WOULD I LOWER THE VOLUME THAT BOTHERS ME HURRRRRR
Youre a fucking retard.

You've obviously not read any good choose your own adventure fapfiction.

Are you saying that Homeworld has bad gameplay?

I think you're confused, most of the games on that list have top notch game play
even morrowind is a good game by giving you nearly unlimited freedom in an open world

Of course not, but making the story a priority allowed Relic to create something truly special.

carmack has always been in the tech game though. so of course he doesn't think highly of anything other than the tech.

Depends on what the intended experience is.
I'd argue that story in RPGs are important, i.e. has to make sense. Otherwise you'll get faggots here making non-stop threads about it.

>Then why have a bad story?
What exactly is bad about it? Especially when its so minimal?

Worked really well for Rage, huh?

>by giving you nearly unlimited freedom in an open world
Which has no inherent value in regards to gameplay

>carpentry has nothing to do with building a house

>Lyrics in songs are expected to be there but it's not that important

twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1030511549688016899

Also true

Games are too broad as a genre to make such affirmation, which by the way is very partial and convenient for him since he makes games like that. It sounds as retarded as a historian saying that books are expected to have fiction elements but it is not important and you should focus in the historical aspect only. Utterly narrowminded.

Those games are still bad because the gameplay is bad. except for TTYD

Most people don't even know the lyrics to most of the songs they listen too, maybe only the chorus.

Music is stupid, from a logical perspective.

I think in most cases yes. A good way to test is to remove the story bits and cutscenes and see if the game is still fun. If it is then add story where needed to tie things together.

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Sure, 2 digit IQ people would agree to both. No surprise there

remember when video games weren't all trying to be boring ass interactive movies to pander to boomers and females

yes but he didn't say it all.
a good story in a well-drawn porn doujin makes the boner stronger, but i'd fap to art with no dialogue or story subtext if i want to
a good story in a mechanically/thematically solid vidya makes the gameplay better, but i'd play a game with no dialogue or story subtext if i want to

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He was wrong, yes. It's a preference thing and that there are people that care for story and characters is not really up for discussion, it's a fact.

Carmack was an autistic douhe who forced people he didn't like to leave the studio.

Fire Emblem Fates Conquest
I didn't finish the game because the story was just so bad

Rapelay. Where to download?

Still, compared to Doom 1&2, its annoying. I want to play Doom, not listen to a dude talking to me over radio or have some shitty exposition. Screen with a "Kill all demons" at the start would been enough. But, gotta pull the normies in.
>It only takes less than 5 minutes!
Its 5 minutes wasted and makes me not want to re-play the game.

>Not arguing the point but calling me retard for having different opinion
Alrighty then. Pity its hard to discuss games with D44M fans.

>Main character doesn't care about it
>The game makes fun of games having stories to interrupt gameplay, but still has the story to interrupt the gameplay sometimes
>Still wants to treat story like its not important
Its a paradox. Why they didn't have the story be voice-over in loading screens? Not interrupting action and you would be able to turn it off if you wanted.

Lyrics are only good from an instrumental perspective and for adding context to the emotions that are intended to be drawn from said instruments.. Once a song becomes primarily about the lyrics, all pretense of music is lost and you end up with a fancy poem.

Correct.

>Carmack was an autistic douhe who forced people he didn't like to leave the studio.

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He also broke into his school to steal computers

>all pretense of music is lost and you end up with a fancy poem.
Good
Poems are far more engaging than muh instrumentals

What good is interactivity for if the gameplay is shit?

The point is that for a porn movie to be worth it, the porn HAS to be good, and for a game to be worth it, the gameplay HAS to be good.

What are some of your favorite games, if you don't mind me asking? Why do you value story above all else? Are you interested in other media that tends to have higher quality writing and storytelling rather than videogames?
Actually basically every level is a series of set-pieces with different objectives and such. There's even mission pointers and a compass for total idiots.

and yet mumble rap which is lyrically bullshit most of the time is popular among normalfags and zoomers

Are you really that stupid? No doom game treated the story as anything more than an excuse to explain why the demons are there and where the mc has to go to.
The fact that you are this fixated on the plot of a game that has almost no plot just shows you how severe your autism is. Get some help.

>Game devs have nothing to do with story.
>Only a developer if you write code true scottsman bullshit
Shut the fuck up retard. You don't know shit about shit and another retard reactionarily knee-jerking to your dumbshit doesn't make you any less of a colossal moron with a shitleak from your noise hole.

>The point is this obvious falsehood that I'm going to insist is truth

This is one of those games that marries the story and gameplay simply perfect.
Not him, but the one good thing about it that I appreciated was the serious-sam style codex and stat-tracking on kills. Everything else is too complicated and stupid and annoying.

If the videogame market for the past 20 years has taught us anything, it's that he's quite wrong.

Depends on the song and genre. Folk music and stuff the lyrics are the main thing, and even more important than the instrumental or vocal delivery. Other genres might focus more on instrumentation or percussion.

Good music is a poem written in emotions. Bad music is basically tribal chanting into the mic while a drum beat plays into the background that teens and idiots listen to because its popular.

>APHEX TWIIIN WOOHOOOOO BEEPBEEBEPPBOOOOOP
kill. your. self.

No.

story in a game is like story in a book. It's expected to be there, but its not that important, writing is.

A book may have the greatest story ever made but if its written like shit then it doesn't even matter, the book is shit.

Why then D44M needs to have unskippable cutscenes when Doom 1 and 2 didn't have any? Doom 1 had lore at the end of the episode, that you could outright skip. Doom 2 had them in between some maps, and you could skip them.
D44M has intro cutscene you cannot skip. No matter how many times you have played or don't care. It has multiple times cutscenes you cannot skip and its not fun. Even with weapon pick-ups.
Its all about gameplay, not story. When the cutscenes and story interrupts gameplay, it isn't fun for me.
It would been fine if the game had just the intro of Doom Slayer getting up from table and that's it. But nope.
Good gameplay>Good story>Good gameplay that gets interrupted by story

Back then it was true but as the medium has grown story has become more and more important, technical improvements aren't going to evolve at the rate that they did in previous decades due to exponential development costs attributed to them and eventually story/world building are going to be the main factors that set games apart.

i agree a story in a video game isn't needed but man do i love lesbian incest stories in porn

Doom 4 is cutscenes incarnate dipshit, the literal gameplay itself is designed around cutscenes. The game actively wants you to play a cutscene ebery time you kill an enemy. It's a cinematoc experience

>Was he right?
No, but it doesn't matter. He is really just an engine and tech guy.

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He's just mad Ultima Underworld released before Wolf3D

Just seems like a off-hand quote that he himself doesn't really believe.

In 1993 when home gaming had a very close relationship to its father the arcade? Yes

In 2019 when worldbuilding, lore, and universes that launch game series and we are completely removed from arcades? Fuck no and even games that emphasize gameplay over story still have a story with a hundred fold more emphasis than game devs put into their games 25 years ago

>Cinematic experience
Well that explains a lot
Pity they didn't make a Doom game
I kinda wish they would fix the problems in eternal but I highly doubt it.

Multiplayer games sure.
>story in a game
Is more akin to saying
>story in a movie
The qualifiers are important, in this case porn and multiplayer. Otherwise movie and game are super fucking broad genres.

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>cutscenes inbetween levels
They are not long cutscenes you fucktard. Go take a piss, drink some water during the cutscenes. And having cutscenes interrupt the gameplay has nothing to do with the quality of the plot you retard.

>autistic boomer cannot comprehend music without singing in it
Are you unironically retarded, or just pretending?

No, but games should tell the story without interrupting the flow.

I agree. People play games because of the gameplay. Otherwise they would be reading a book.

watch yourself, mack
or i WILL call you a name

Shadowbringers
Xenoblade Chronicles
Xenogears

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No. I think both story games and gameplay games can co-exist peacefully, they both scratch different itches.

My real issue is when story games pretend to be gameplay games. If you're going to make a JRPG or a visual novel, that's completely fine with me. But when you try and sell some QTE filled cutscene filled turd where the characters can't shut up for one second as a "hardcore experience for gamers", that's when I feel utterly insulted. Do they seriously think I can't see that the fancy setpiece has all the depth of "hold up to win"?

I find story to actually be seriously be important in hentai.

It's actually more the millenial rave faggots who don't care about lyrics at all.

>In 1993 when home gaming had a very close relationship to its father the arcade? Yes

He's right, except in the case of CRPGs.
Story driven games are cancer. Leads to bland, easy, and boring gameplay because developers are now focused on making sure everyone gets through to the end. You lose the ability do anything interesting or be creative in gameplay as a result. In other words, someone else can play the game instead of you, and the game plays exactly the same. So why bother playing it? You have no impact on the gameplay or game world, so you'll get bored. I think this is the core reason walking sims never found a larger audience.
As an example of the cancer at work, just look at how generic Death Stranding's combat is. Years in development and it turns out looking flat and derivative.

webm unrelated i guess?
i liked that movie because i got to watch tom cruise die like 200 times
but yeah depends on the game
depends on the movie
etc

Carmack was old school, from a time where video games were about the GAME part of videogame. Retards think vidya can have good story when they are interacting and involved in the story, protip retard your life is boring irl because your a fucking boring person. You being in a story would be shit, your choices are a meme and also shit. Just give the pretense of why i'm here to kill shit, find shit, or whatever and let me play my GAME.

Actual movies can never compare to books on a pure story telling basis, and vidya story can never compare to movies. Why are you playing vidya for its least important aspect?

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I think he is wrong, or more precisely people are wrong in what they call games.
Videogames fall into this weird niche where for some reason every single kind of interactive digital software is called a fucking game and viewed in the same paradigm.
Interactive stories, full on games and mix between these can exist peacfuly.

arousal is 99% mental for women, so that makes sense.

I just fap to facebook bikini and lewd night out pics of women I know irl.

Just play Thief, Deus Ex or Ultima Underworld, games that are much better than anything id has ever made.

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>protip retard your life is boring irl because your a fucking boring person. You being in a story would be shit, your choices are a meme and also shit
100% based and redpilll

Every sex and sexuality fap to porn.
Apart from maybe asexuals?

>he doesn't mod the game into porn then make his own story

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Are asexuals even real?

Planescape: Torment
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Spec Ops: The Line

I'm convinced that they're all liars.

how? are you the kind of person that goes to Yea Forums for "facebook fap" threads? (now fb/ig/sc/twitter threads)

Agree with this. If you want rich story read a book or watch a film. Games are primarily gameplay. If it has a nice story on top of that then that's fine. But a story game with shitty gameplay? FUCK THAT

Planescape Torment
Legacy of Kain series
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II

>Nuh-uh, no playing to you until you watch this unskippable cutscene in a fast-paced action game!
Its not about the quality of the story. It is the fact that the story isn't necessary for a Doom game or it really shouldn't be. Then why do I have to keep sit down and listen some idiots talk or watch in-game cutscenes of Doom Slayer pick up stuff.
It breaks the flow of the action.
Even if the story would be Citizen Kane levelof good, I would still prefer to be able to skip them in an action game

The story is important in a porn though. Otherwise you'd just stare at single images or GIFs.

Calling someone autistic is ableist.
Gonna have to take all your onions away.

Yup.

100%, while story can be enjoyable and even one of the pillars of a game, the most important part of a game its the gameplay

Generally. Plot is a means by which the gameplay can be moved forward, but the plot should be built around the gameplay. You can't call it a porno if the actors spend the entire run time engaged in high-stakes action sequences.

I love carmack but this is the same guy who while working a topless girl came into his office saying "did you order a pizza?" and he just looked up said "no." and went back to work.

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Source on that shizz

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You can have a game without story but you can't have a game without gameplay.

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>carmack isn't a thirsty beta
I don't see the issue here.

TELL THAT TO TELLTALE LMAO *DAB*

>gameplay should be the main focus in a game
WOAHHHH!!!!
CARMACK JUST BLEW MY FRIGGEN MIND!!!???

Yes and no.
In a game were most of what you are doing is based around the story and what the characters want its probably better that your characters and story be compelling, especially if its one of those "games" that spends little time in gameplay.

A fighting game though probably doesnt need a story at all.

>Plot is a means by which the gameplay can be moved forward, but the plot should be built around the gameplay.
Right. Story can be more involved or less involved, and a good story can sometimes enhance the gameplay, but gameplay shouldn't suffer for story.

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masters of doom

He was right for him. He seems like the kind of autist who doesn't grasp that other people like different aspects, like music autists who go "but literally who the fuck cares about [insert band role] it's the least important part"

a game can be whatever you want it to be desu

there used to be, but they were legit just the 0.0000002%, not common enough to ever be acknowledged, so anyone claiming now is just looking to tick off some obscure gender box. I'm curious if the whole many genders thing was just some experiment to see how far they could divide regular average normal people with a trend, and that evolved into the current era of liberal/conservative thing we have now, since they both piggyback off of liking, or not liking the many genders thing.

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Its not about the plot then you fucking retard its about designing the game so that the cutscenes do not interrupt the flow of the game play you fucking retard. You havent mentioned a single thing about what makes the plot so horrible.
You know most people arent autistic enough to care this much about what the npc is talking about especially if they think the story is dull and extra especially if you can lower the volume.

John is a gamer?