Can we discuss retail instead of Classic for once?

no one cares, fuck off with retail

>no sir I haven't seen 3+ threads up at all times every day
ok

It's focused on raiding, just like all other recent expansions. The only other things to do are dungeons and pvp.

Instead of a beautiful world, full of actual meaningful content, it's just a constant treadmill of gearing up and doing raids.

I actually wanted to take it slow, enjoy the world, do anything but raids (I don't find them particularly interesting). But the world feels empty and rushed.

Make the Anal Power farm account wide. Or better, just remove it.

BFA was the first time in 12 years I've been playing the game, when I deliberately wanted to stop paying for my sub even through token. It wasn't some slog like in WoD when there's was nothing to do but raid log, and I eventually stopped for 4 months. Or in Cata when my long standing guild disbanded, and I took a half a year break. Here I purposefully didn't want Blizzard get a single cent from me.
Maybe it's personal and quite petty, but I just couldn't handle how my spec become a 3rd rate citizen in the world of Warcraft. No attention during beta, 4 quickfixes and buffs during launch with bandaids that ultimately did nothing. And a promise for a bigger fix in the 8.2 or whatever it was. But until then during the whole tier, you're fucked. You're on the bench because my spec just can't do anything with encounter mechanic, you're laughed at in the M+, your M+ offspec is inferior to others of the same role.

Also I was just tired of doing local quests, I've done enough in Legion chasing that artifact power.

>BfA is a good expac
For those of us that played Mists of Pandaria and Legion at launch, it has the same pattern. The default release was filled with barely any content and nothing to do, while later patches added content and time saving mechanics. Blizzard needs to do a much better job of padding out the launch release with more stuff to do, so expansions won't be damned weeks after release.

>people finally realizing WoW was always a terrible game

Attached: 1566058231889.png (1108x508, 94K)

When is the next expansion supposed to be released? I imagine there are no fixed date but does Blizzard follow a pattern?

~ 1 year

>retail
Discuss what tho? Its total shit; objectively,subjectively, generally and universally. End of story.

They shouldve ended it with Legion. We defeated the Burning Legion and Sargeras, universe is saved, la da la da da.
Im sure most would agree by now.

Should be Summer 2020.
BfA's patch schedule is slower because they don't want a 9-12 month content drought again like previous expansions. That's why we're still on 8.2 with 8.2.5 incoming soon.

Back in Legion 7.3 was already released with the Argus raid dropping in November. Now we likely won't get 8.3 until late January and the final raid in March/April.

I don't care if it's lore rape, I'm looking forward to playing Alliance Forsaken Paladin in the next expansion.

Attached: kirill-stepanov-2.jpg (1920x2792, 842K)

The thing that annoys me the most is that Blizzard constantly decide to tell rather than show. Every quest you do, there's 5 minutes of fucking NPCs emoting at each other. For a lot of the quests, that's ALL that happens, your entire quest is to watch these two NPC's emote at each other. Sometimes (far too often) they also play horrible, stilted voice acting over the top. Half the quests in BfA are "Hey follow this random fuckwad you just met some place while he dumps exposition you don't give a shit about". It's horrible, it's like Blizzard thought "Hey you know what was the worst decision we ever made? Letting people skip quest text".

And then when you're flying around the world and pass over a world quest location suddenly some random dickhead is all "CHAMPION YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY COMPLETE THIS TRIVIAL TASK FOR ME IT IS OF VITAL IMPORTANCE". Shut the fuck up, I don't want to listen to this garbage. This is compounded by the fact that the audio direction has gone completely down the shitter, now every zone theme is some bombastic orchestral piece that sounds exactly like every other bombastic orchestral piece this side of Skyrim, there's no Ambient tracks like the STV theme or the Tirisfal theme.

Warfronts and Expeditions sound amazing on paper. RTS-like base and unit building and massive army battles? Rogue-like randomly generated pve content to enjoyed without the boring old 1-tank-1-healer-3-dps recipe?

By all rights it should've been incredibly good. What went wrong?

I see. Perhaps they'll use this year to see if classic is a one time money boost or If it can be milked. If they let ~2 years for every retail expansion i can see them using the middle year to do some shit with older stuff like maybe rereleasing the expansions after the original one

Jaina and Tilamji are mary sues for this xpac while Anduin is Golden's schlicking fetish

It's easy to fix WoW, go back to the MoP version of class design which everyone realize is truly KINO now

But as long as Ion hack runs the game, it will continue to be driven into the ground

They made them retard easy and should've been a 40v40 imho

Over arching story is alright, but they leave too many unresolved things just hanging (like what is the outcome & impact of the warfronts and their stories?). Some of the actions like introducing alliance sympthasing Forsaken does kill my interest on their idea of being "nothing is sacred" mentality I got to used to while playing the game. And whole Calia Menethil getting raised as a lightbound undead is just terrible.

Imo adding more races was a terrible mistake regards to already existing races' story development & the new ones too, which are mostly just rehash of the original races' personalities (Dwarfs being "angry" by their nature like DI Dwarfs are now, Lightforged being all about fanatical light worshippers like Draenei were in TBC etc.)

Class design is the great weakness even thou the expansion on itself (excluding warfronts) has been fine, the designs of rather simple rotations do eat a lot of the fun from classes, and only by adding pvp talents they turn actually desirable.
Nazjatar & Mechancon have been fun additions.

You realize that MoP class design came from having Ion be the one making decisions on class design, right? He was moved from class design to a managerial position after MoP shipped.

Yet Heroic Warfronts fail even more because no one wants to bother with them because they're too hard while being just as boring.

Fuck off Christie

Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Nobody does Heroic Warfronts because it actually takes effort to get the group together while they don't offer any notable rewards. Who the fuck cares about 425 gear after all?

>in the next expansion.
You mean Classic+?

My biggest gripes with it are
>some specs and classes feel extremely boring to play
>raids, expeditions and warfronts are a chore, no reason to do anything in the game, gear is completely meaningless and doesn't add anything because of scaling
>no class tier sets, all the armor sets from raids look fucking AWFUL
Other than that it's just mediocre. It's not the best thing and it doesn't inspire anything. It sounded way better on paper.

As someone who plays on and off for a month every now and again I don't mind it, I always set my own goals in the game so I can just ignore most of the shitty things, but blizz are making it harder and harder to do with every patch.

The only thing that Anduin did in BfA was releasing Saurfang.

Oh, and the attack on Lordaeron. That went well.

The only hard thing about heroic warfronts are the keep bosses that shit on your health

>NuBlizzard was told that Azerite gear was shit, still launched 8.0 with it
>NuBlizzard was told GCD changes was shit, still launched 8.0 with it
>Continued to prune and destroy classes and specs so they can sell MDI and Arena esports shit

Yeah, this game is pretty much dead and buried

Play the superior Shadowbringers instead

all we have now is a giant mega world, profitable for the company, that still has legendary element like northrend and unaltered boomer stuff, that gets expanded to the point where it doesn't make much sense anymore, with 10 year old progressed characters that can't be ever left forever by most players because too much involvement. wouldn't be a problem if game was freely accessible offline and private networks but not possible now.

story of wow:
n64 players discover pc, pc players gets addicted to wow in 2005-2007

zoomers arrives after cataclysm which makes the game soulless because employee turnover and couldn't replicate previous atmosphere

american shitty corporate practices makes them act very social and listen to the community more a lot all of a sudden

zoomers growing with soulless world rage hard on forums and reddit to implement or remove stuff in the game, pro game designers get bashed hardcore one after the other for following management orders

management also believes that players are all casual mom now and needs to cater to this and makes shit easy and fast, and high level hard and redundant

boomers gets angry that their beloved game is butchered and have their 00s pc texture increasingly replaced by shitty zoomer artstation model and cyber dog fast gameplay

blizzard makes many $ with all this because many still addicted to life

classic released, boomers are happy and zoomers are still young tasteless fuckers

next expansion will be bfa with a different world region and shit that designers felt was working in legion and classic

I agree more with this.
Still they are nowhere near the mary sue lvl of Thrall or Tirion.

legion was unironically my favorite expansion, but just a few hours in the beta of bfa i stopped playing because of how bad the gameplay felt and the horrible content
also i didn't like a single zone in that expansion

its not hte same game so why do you talk about it, like it is?

I just hope they wouldn't add any more zones into the game but instead developed the story through the existing zones.

That's the problem. Despite doing nothing he still respected and considered as leader by everyone else, just like Baine, who have Horde leaders support for doing nothing

Its fucked on every level possible and cant be salvaged. Its time to pull a deathswitch on retail and move on.

They jumped the shark with the class design this time around. Yes, I'm saying that classes are even worse than they were in WoD.
Also, bring back shaman support capabilities. Why even have an enhancement spec when they don't enhance anything?

Just play Classic.

I never said that the story was good and had 0 flaws. But you guys never played the other expac to complain about it.
The Alliance leaders all bow to the High King since cata btw, so it makes sense that his son takes the lead.
Baine has Horde leader support because they want to get rid of Sylvanas as well.

The exact same things that made the last 4 xpacs garbage.

can someone redpill me into playing BFA? The grind on classic is retarded, i never played WoW when it first released, only started when Draenor came out, but i was only on and off, now that there are so many expansions i haven't played the content is almost unbearably overwhelming, and i'm so fucking lost, I just want my character to look cool honestly, finding gear for transmog is my highest priority, should i just not level boost and start from scratch doing quests?

leveling is fine, you feel stronger if not as stronger as in classic
the end game is nauseating

You obviously don't know what a good expac was. Wrath was a good expac. Burning Crusade was a good expac. Cataclysm forward killed retail. There has not been a good expac since WotLK.

I'll tell you what is missing in retail WoW for me...
The feel of progression.

Classic is great in that matter. You start as a nobody and each quest, each piece of gear makes you grow, progress. It takes time, it's often tedious, but it feels so much better. Getting your first shoulders or your head piece, or a new weapon, or a special skill that that needed you to do a questline. The feel of accomplishment from that is much better than achievements in retail.

While leveling in BfA you don't feel any progress, on the contrary, you loose your artifact, your Legion legendaries, mobs are always scaled to your level. The only progress is at max level, but then it's just redoing same content, same raids and dungeons over and over again, with hope of getting slightly better piece of loot, maybe in a different colour than before.

For me BfA became a dress-up game. You create a character, you gather transmog and create a great looking outfit. It's fun, I love when people whisper me that I have an awesome transmog, but it's not what the game should be about.

>But you guys never played the other expac to complain about it.
>The Alliance leaders all bow to the High King since cata btw, so it makes sense that his son takes the lead
Yeah because when Garrosh launched massive Horde expansion in Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms Varian had enough balls to tell other leaders "shut up and follow my orders" and was successful, that's why they followed him. Anduin does nothing and still earning even more respect, since literally all leaders treats him as their collective adopted perfect son.
>Baine has Horde leader support because they want to get rid of Sylvanas as well.
1) why?
2) why baine cannot do anything.
3) why they didn't do anyrhing before Sylvanas dragged them into total war?

Yeah, feeling weaker over the last 10 levels is stupid. Coming from legion you lose sets, legendaries, and artifact abilities instead of getting stronger. Levels mean absolutely nothing.

The moment you accept Varian as your King, you take an oath of allegiance to the entire Royal line as well.
>why?
Did you play the game? She has a secret agenda and uses the Horde. She also genocided the Night Elves which is wrong. They turned on Garrosh for far less.
>why they didn't do anyrhing before Sylvanas dragged them into total war?
Because they are retards. I never said that the story was perfect again.

You should be 18 to post on 4chin

wow.gamepedia.com/Christie_Golden

Destroys your game, WoW cucks

This. Some of the worst story writing in the game is anything that focuses on Thrall

Gearing is fucked. Imagine having the next raid tier be such a massive boost up that mythic of the previous tier is worth less than normal, and because of mythic+ dungeon chests everyone already has better gear before the next raid has even released.

christie golden is a child abuser

just play Classic, they're going to divert the main story line into an alternative timeline(that doesn't have SJWs/Trannies/Basedboys)

Its the heart of azeroth and how the whole expansion was built around it.
There is no fixing bfa in a mechanical level.

Not really though

Weekly chest is 440

M+ dungeon chest is 430 which is Heroic raid equivalent

Next raid tier should be something like this

445 Mythic Eternal Palace - 445 Normal
460 Heroic raid
475 Mythic raid

Even with Titanforging, the ilvl is capped at 450-455

WoD to Legion saw a far larger power drop losing the ring. People literally had higher dps in HFC than they did before NH

Retail is fucking shit 70% chinks thats why the game feels like a mobile game

twitch.tv/destiny/clip/SparklingSweetHyenaShadyLulu

Attached: 1527892147941.png (747x686, 44K)

It's still fucking retarded that mythic from previous tier is only worth as much as the normal gear from the next tier. I mean sure, I know they want to stretch out content as much as possible but you should at least be able to go from mythic to mythic if you're able to reliably clear the entire tier.

twitch.tv/destiny/clip/CautiousFaithfulSmoothieKreygasm

Pro's

>Decent story (focus on alliance vs horde, no stupid DBZ fights with titans, more personal story with the likes of Jaina)
>Good characters (Bwonsamdi is great, Azshara is sexy)
>Remade some zones & made them relevant for max level, unlike Cata
>War Campaign & Azerite quests take you all over the world, even into the emerald dream
>Dungeons & Raids as good as ever, Mechagon easily the best dungeon in years
>Heart of Azeroth in 8.2 is fun
>2 unique cities, one for alliance & one for horde, zuldazar feels like an actual city with how xboxhueg it is
>Nazjatar & Mechagon are top tier zones
>Mythic +

Con's
>Class design mixed with the new GCD, WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING?
>Titanforging
>Azerite gear
>No Tier gear
>Just remove LFR & LFD already, nobody likes it

If you want to experience the story content of 1-120, don't boost and just leisurely do the main storylines of each expansion while ignoring sidequests.

If you don't care much about the leveling story experience (although you can come back to it later if you want) just boost, do the BfA zones to 120 and then start soloing old dungeons/raids for whatever transmog gear you want. At 120 everything before Legion (and some of Legion even) is perfectly soloable.

>play classic thinking ill play till 20
>im 41 and want to play more

>Just remove LFR & LFD already, nobody likes it

Yeah I'm not gonna stand around begging for a group for hours at a time

If you haven't figured out that m+ is the cornerstone of the gearing being this fucked then you're just retarded

Ghostcrawler said it was a mistake, stop defending it

I really don't get the GCD shit. I mean fuck, OK, you don't want people to activate all the cooldowns at once, I can understand it. But you could just implement some system where you can't pop everything at once, just put in a limit of one off-GCD ability per GCD and be done with it.

There is literally no point in having LFR and LFD. The drops are trash, the mechanics are non-existant. Mythic 0 and normal raids are already easy as shit and award better gear, so what's the fucking point?

-Azerite Armor is quite possibly the single worst addition they've ever added into the game. They killed raid tier sets for this.
-Speaking of which, raiding is absolutely pointless in BfA, given that there are no longer tier sets to shoot for and mythic+ and benthic armor pieces are generally better anyway and significantly easier to attain. M+ in general drops gear like candy.
-Titanforging is still a horrible RNG system that nobody likes.
-And yet all of this gearing is completely pointless regardless because the next patch will shower you with catch-up gear, completely invalidating all progress you made last tier.
-Heart of Azeroth level grinding is awful, though at least they implemented a better system than that they had in Legion, where your AP gains were in the double digits at the beginning of the expansion and in the quadrillions by the end.
-Warfronts and Island Expeditions are the two biggest new features added into the game this expansion, and they're both universally disliked. No one even knew what Warfronts were until nearly the launch of the expansion.
-The story
-The GCD changes
-Essences are fine because you're at least 100% guaranteed to get what you're going for, but it may strongarm you into doing content you hate doing to get a few of your best essences. Hardcore raider? Fuck you, go do some rated pvp. Hardcore pvper? Have fun in M+ and killing Heroic Azshara.
-The world is absolutely dead. The world quest system hasn't aged well at all and random treasures are boring. Chests in classic are exciting because they're usually filled with food, water, random trade goodies and sometimes a valuable piece of gear. Random treasure in BfA has literal junk and a meager amount of war resources.
-Their attempts at trying to balance classes for FUCKING ESPORTS just sterilized all the classes, and even then they utterly failed at that because every comp is the same. Warrior/Druid/Rogue/Rogue/Rogue for MDI or GTFO.
-Class design is the worst it has ever been

Zoomzoom

You have to be 18 to post btw

lmao

I actually like how mythic+ makes dungeons relevant past the very first tier but I can see how the system is fucked. But honestly I don't really know how you'd fix this other than making it harder to get top gear.

>Yeah I'm not gonna stand around begging for a group for hours at a time
Seems like mmos is not for you then

Just because your retarded ass scans Yea Forums 24 hours a day doesn't mean everyone else does.

M+ killed raiding this expansion. M+ killed every other form of gearing this expansion. Next tier you're expected to go farm the same pieces again in the same exact dungeons for a duplicate of a piece you already have but with a higher ilvl.

literally who

>The moment you accept Varian as your King, you take an oath of allegiance to the entire Royal line as well
Are you retarded? Where did is says you obligated to praising Anduin all the time?
>Did you play the game? She has a secret agenda and uses the Horde. She also genocided the Night Elves which is wrong
Wrong for whom? None raised a word.
Why would blood elves, trolls, ma'ghars, zandalari would care about elves.
>I never said that the story was perfect again.
Simple logic and laws of motivation now considering as "perfect"? Entire BfA story (main story) built on such deiceion, making flaws and problems where it could be easily avoided (like Zuldazar assault)

What do you want to discuss??

We know what makes it bad we've been saying it for over a year now. Why do you want to make another thread when we know what the issue is. Or maybe you've been one of the idiots pet farming and jerking off to m+ finally realizing nothing matters in current wow.

Make your time logged on matter = game fixed.

zoom zoom

>Don't know letsplayer
>That makes me the zoomer

haha

Judging by the map design and how there's locations you never have to go to that exist on the map in the Arathi warfront, it was clearly going to be a PvP battleground with NPC armies they turned into PvE. As a result it's boring shite.

What I really want from Blizzard is to completely change their writing team.
The story we were getting is absolutely atrocious and it becomes more and more absurd.

Do we need more proofs that BfA players are actual underage mongoloids?

Ghostcrawler was the lead game designer for several expansion. Go eat your breakfast of tide pods.

>Hot Bait time

>There's signs that they learned and know what they did wrong in BfA gameplaywise so they better not repeat those mistakes again.
or they will double down on them. Its the Blizzard way, after all.

>Warfronts
I simply do not comprehend in the slightest as to why they didn't make them into a PvP battleground. It could have been the biggest fucking thing they done in a decade, a new Alterac. Everything is there, everything works. JUST PUT PVP PLAYERS IN THERE. That alone would have saved everything about this xpac.

The story is pants and you go through a leveling experience that was tailored for a 10 year old expansion, then you finally get to Legion and BFA and you're railroaded into a narrow questing experience.

Then when you finally reach 120 you're slapped in the face with the "endgame" which is basically just grinding timegated rep quests to unlock cosmetics.

Stop playing a shit class and you'll get invited.

there's like a 2/6 chance you fuck up in classic jesus so bad.

>letsplayer

fucking end your shit you stupid bitch

actually pay attention in school or ask your mom for more meds. please. you're justb eing

Attached: 1542083541082.jpg (636x511, 61K)

WoW died halfway through WotLK.

PvP scares shit players

Instead of building smartly on previous expac systems they continued the trend of giving you some resource grind toy which we'll inevitably trade in for another in 9.0

Also they never shut the fuck up about class fantasy but every class is essentially the same shit and can do everything

They all have a resource builder and a spender. That's the loop for all of them. The classes in WoW at this point are all just the same class with different particle effects.

>The feel of accomplishment from that is much better than achievements in retail.
Both feel inconsequential for me. I've done it so many times it's just expected to happen. It happens on every character you level every time and it's hard to get excited about it, especially when it's just a white item with nothing but armor on it like your first shoulders oh helmet (which probably looks so bad you're better off just hiding it). I agree that BFA stripping you of power feels bad but gearing in classic isn't something to write home about unless an incredibly rare item drops - which also feels good in BFA and literally any other game. At level cap they are both similar in the way you just do the same content over and over again hoping for an upgrade to drop.

The tedium of vanilla doesn't justify the rewards, the timesink of BFA doesn't either. Progression isn't the attractive feature of both games, for BFA it is as you said a dress up game, collecting stuff is nice, for Classic it's social situations that can sometimes feel fresh because so many different kind of people play it.

>Where did is says you obligated to praising Anduin all the time?
You know how Royalty works, right? "The King is dead, long live the King".
>Why would blood elves, trolls, ma'ghars, zandalari would care about elves.
Because they still have some moral apparently.
>Simple logic and laws of motivation now considering as "perfect"? Entire BfA story (main story) built on such deiceion, making flaws and problems where it could be easily avoided (like Zuldazar assault)
Still way better than the other expac.

I stoped at WoTLK and played 1 month in august.

To me the problem is that in 10 years, the game barely improved to todays standards.

The positive is the accessibility, and the level design, who's starting to be at least acceptable after they fucked it up for so long.
And I'm not speaking about Art direction, but design.

Then, there's no endgame. What's the point of being able to play the last raid in LFR, if after that you're already full purple from simple quests. There's no more carrots on sticks.

It's still a mess like any MMO to know what you have to your disposal as content, but once you find how to access it, it's shallow.

There's no more sens of progression because mobs scale with you, ala Oblivion. But there's not much interest in going everywhere in WoW, so it's more boring than anything.

As mentionned before you can gear up by doing quests and random dungeons. All the gear is normalised, there's no more thoughts to put into finding pieces and trying stuff.

Specs are dumbdown, it's practical, but retard proof.

My only hope was what they call "World Quest", quest that pop on your map and offer you different rewards depending on what it is.
Oh so sad I was to discover it's exactly DAILY QUESTS, but instead of being 100% here everyday, maybe it won't.

Game got so boring through the years people in-game have tons of maxed characters. Wich removes the sense of immersion and commitement.

They introduce new stuff that's pitiful, like the pokemon battles, or the minigames.
They could be better if polished, but they feel like baby first developement project that daddy put in game.

tldr: game is neither an MMO or a Coop RPG, therefore is a waste. It would honestly be better as some sort of GACHA MMO.

>What was a minor annoyance in Legion has become a major source of irritation: timegating.
This may be the biggest thing killing retail today.
Imagine paying a monthly subscription for a game and the developers tell YOU when you can play and far you can get so gamerdads feel can feel good too. Let me play how I fucking want to play.
Like now in classic, if I wanted to spend 12 straight hours grinding Ravendolt rep I could. But in retail that grind would take 6 months because they'd only let me do 3 quests a day for 400 rep.
You can't even select what emissary quests you want. It feels like a mobile game.

It's a game where they have to rework the characters faces and attributes. What a great artistic integrity. How can you expect good story from characters that changes depending on the current biggest target audience.

Why should you trust the opinions of the people who ruined the game in the first place

>You know how Royalty works, right? "The King is dead, long live the King".
You know gnomes, goats, elves and pandas have no royalty tradition, right? You know High King is equal to Lothar position durring the Second War?
>Because they still have some moral apparently.
So fucking what?
>Still way better than the other expac.
Lol.no, it's literally retarded version of Pandas where no side wants to win the war.

>What exactly makes BfA so bad
The issues that made the expansion bad at launch were amplified by the fucking retards that suck the cock of streamers like asmongold and sodapoppin.
The expansion is actually not bad, but the plot is confused and not exactly engaging.

Attached: 5th old god.jpg (4000x4000, 355K)

Revenholdt is just a meme rep though. And anybody who wants to just autisticlly grind can play runescape like the subhuman euro they probably are

You say at launch like its good now. Benthic gear is another embarrassment of overloading casual players with free gear, titanforging still exists and classes are still trash

BFA is a phone game stuffed with so much boring grindy shit and time-gating with the sole intent of making sure you stayed subscribed for as long as possible, on top of pure RNG trash like azerite traits and titan-forging. You're not allowed to not do that shit either or you fall behind for the rest of the tier. Uldir was great and I enjoyed it, but goddamn everything built around it was awful. Class design as a whole is the most dumbed down brain-dead shit ever, with one spec (shadow) and one class (shaman) released unfinished by their own admission (which they proceeded to slap a bandaid on as a "fix").

The story is also pathetic and laughable. Sylvanas has a retard aura that makes everyone around her retarded or out of character, some people who threw a shitfit at Garrosh for doing less are indifferent now. Even when she turns around and does something utterly retarded and comically evil the writers do mental gymnastics to make it "just as planned all along!" The writers also can't make their minds if they want to write BFA like a high-fantasy adventure or as a gritty war drama, either route could work but they're trying to do both and it just comes across as retarded. You either need to have Saurfang be right and honour and compassion even between adversaries be the core theme, in which case Sylvanas is an evil asshole, or you go the gritty realism route and say yeah honour doesn't fucking matter if you all die in which case Sylvanas is a far better commander than Saurfang because she nearly won the war twice in one day. In the novella for the burning of Teldrassil they make clear thousands of night elven civilians burn to death in graphic detail and the horde as a whole is culpable (shamans conjure winds to make it burn faster etc), there is NO GOING BACK from something like that for a kiss and make up at the end of this expansion (which there will be).

>Benthic gear is another embarrassment of overloading casual players with free gear, titanforging still exists and classes are still trash
Boo fucking woo.
Nobody cares, sperg.
Welfare epics have been in the game since Wotlk.
It's is way too late to complain about it now, you massive retard.
>titanforged is bad
Literally the only babbies that complain about that are endgame hardcore mythic raiders like Method & co.
Are you one of them?
That would justify your issue with people having free welfare gear
>s-stop having w-what i have t-to grind in mythic d-dungeons!1!!
Get fucking rekt faggot, you're still stuck on the gear treadmill since wotlk while i can kill some fucking farting bear somewhere in the world and find a 440 piece of gear.

Also I laughed out loud during that Night warrior scenario shit. The ritual is super dangerous and no one has successfully done it in thousands of years, and even just WATCHING it can kill you, but it makes you powerful enough to take on entire armies! Tyrande becomes the Night Warrior and not FIVE MINUTES later jobs to Nathanos, who for all intents and purposes is just a really good bowman. So fucking bad it's funny.

Attached: f098e85050-1486729885525.jpg (640x559, 67K)

I just used that as an example. It doesn't matter what rep it is. Artificially gating people from playing how they want to pad your dwindling sub numbers isn't fun.
I see people say they get sick thinking about grinding rep but that's all there fucking is to do.

The writers wanted to write Game of Thrones + Marvel Cinematic Universe but they clearly are monkeys that don't have ability to write a simple story let alone the shit they cobbled up with

Legion was a good and fun expasion.
Debate me.
You will lose.

Attached: 155493274055.png (529x405, 292K)

And the grind will probably be nerfed next expansion.

>and not FIVE MINUTES later jobs to Nathanos
Not exactly, she jobs to other empowered by the god

Alliance even worse

seething

What do (You) gain from this bait user?
Unironically worse than BFA because of legendaries

The world lacked style, the story was trivial in the grand world of warcraft, the city lay-outs were utter garbage, and the travel by boat shit was pointless.
Still, I really liked the dungeons. I know many will disagree, but I think the BfA dungeons are some of the best since the original WoW. I was not a fan of the linear hallway dungeons that TBC popularized, and which every expansion since has adopted. BfA went for something more ambitious and fun.

Why do you think that he's called HIGH King?
He's more than what Terenas was for exemple.
Kul Tiras has no royalty tradition as well, yet Jaina says "i'm so proud of my King". Tyrande chose Varian as her King as well because he was chosen by Elune.
>So fucking what?
Just answering your question. They don't like genocide period. The goal was to invade the nelf territory and use them as hostages. Not to turn the Horde into the Scourge 2.0.
>Lol.no, it's literally retarded version of Pandas where no side wants to win the war.
Lol, yes, you never payed TBC/wotlk. It can't be worst.

Reminder.

Attached: 1567691026587.jpg (2296x1290, 1.23M)

whoever did this deserves money for making the most believable fake of the last 10 years

That's like that since TBC. Metzen always wanted to copy Marvel comics while doing WoW.
Tirion, Varian, etc. are you new comic book superheroes. They even made comic books. However the story was so bad, that even the 11M sub couldn't save it.

As a casual PVP player, Legion may be my favorite WoW. Just fun BGs without the tedium of grinding for gear, professions, gems, glyphs, and whatnot.

Attached: 2342.jpg (260x440, 23K)

>Sylvanas is the first of two encounters that comprise the grand finale of BfA. Alliance and Horde will fight side by side against Sylvanas until Bolvar eventually appears and starts killing Horde leaders – first to go is Lor'themar. Bolvar will then side with Taelia and the Alliance. Sylvanas will shoot Genn in response, prompting the intermission.
>During the intermission, all of the Horde leaders will rejoin Sylvanas. Genn dies, and Anduin and Jaina declare war on the Horde. The final fight begins.
>The final boss is 'The Horde' or 'The Alliance'. This encounter is cosmetically unique to each faction, but strategically identical. Horde will win once Anduin is dead, and Alliance will win once Sylvanas is dead.

>The encounter has been designed to have your faction's leaders die one by one as the opposing faction's health ticks down. The players will all die as well (like the Arthas fight), with Anduin and Sylvanas being the last ones standing.
>A cinematic will play once the encounter is over. Anduin will end up killing Sylvanas or vice versa (depending on your faction), only to die of his/her wounds. Ultimately, everyone will be dead, and the harbor will be silent. Characters will then wake up in the Shadowlands, and a ghostly fleet of Helya's ships awaits us in the death version of Stormwind Harbor. With Nathanos by her side, Sylvanas declares that we're now strong enough to face the true battle for Azeroth.

>BGs with unnerfed Veng DH running around
>fun
Blow your brains out retard

>dicking around in classic on my shaman
>everything feels grounded and real, the world is dangerous and every path crossed with an alliance player is tense
>even the smallest upgrades feel like huge improvements because of scarcity
>tedious but ultimately rewarding

>go to classic
>feels cheap and plastic
>DO THIS 2 MINUTE QUEST FOR 75 REP BITCH ONLY 100/21,000 TILL YOU'RE EXALTED LMAO. AND IN 7 MONTHS YOU CAN PLAY A BLACK DWARF AND DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN!
>HERE'S SOME EPICS AND 5000 GOLD
>wpvp is dead as no one uses warmode

>every having trouble against DH
>retard
oh the irony

They removed the Legion artifact weapon skills from most classes, and now nearly every single class feels clunky to play because all of the class/spec rotations were designed with the artifact ability in mind. Some classes got them back, but in the form of a talent that is also severely nerfed and thus not worth taking. Some classes got some interesting new skills, but they are PvP skills and that sucks penis a lot. Enhancement Shaman goes from pure dogshit to utterly fucking based if you have access to the PvP skills, for example.

>believable
>Vrykul/Kvaldir boats
>forsaken banner
nah

Why is that the part you find unbelievable?
We already know Helya is not really gone, and Sylvanas had a deal with her.

They're clearly moving in a direction to dissolve the factions. Pretty soon we'll have orcs in stormwind and gnomes in Thunderbluff. I mean there's barely two factions in the game now. For all this "this is total war. this is the worst we've hated each other for a long time" shit in the story there's nothing in the game to reflect that.

>He's more than what Terenas was for exemple.
[citation fucking needed]
Becuase in FAQ Blizz said that High King is equal to Lothar, high military commander, nothing else (that's why Tyrande and Maiev telling him to fuck off).
>he was chosen by Elune.
Lol
>They don't like genocide period.
Why would BElves among all other living creatures would care about Night Elves?
>The goal was to invade the nelf territory and use them as hostages.
The goal was to cripple the Alliance and it's not like after that ANYONE raised a word.
>Not to turn the Horde into the Scourge 2.0.
Retard
>Lol, yes, you never payed TBC/wotlk. It can't be worst.
TBC had only 3 major problems:
1) Goats
2) kael goes evil totally behind the screen with literally "well he is serving to Burning Legion now, arcane corruption (yeah we will totally forget about this shit when Jaina lost her sanity)" explanation
3) Sunwell (ending Blood Elves storyline)

oh my :3
did you forget that we went there and KICKED HER FUCKING TEETH IN
YOU FUCKING FAGGOT
EVERY SINGLE WOW LEAK HAS BEEN FAKE
JESUS FUCKINGC HRIST KILL YOURSELF GYO UFUKNIG AOGMAISJNOSL

You're embarassing yourself retard. Vengence warped the RBG meta to the point where both teams needed to have 2 or you would instantly lose on any flag running map/ deep wind because a single DH can clear the flag before the other team reaches your side. Trample into multiple leaps was literally uncounterable, on top of a tank cheat death.

But surely in a random BG they were totally beatable when 2.4k rbg teams couldn't, I'm sure you're such a pro user

A deal that ended when Furry king Greymane fucked the lantern in a cutscene?

but there is also not putting back the genie in the bottle. This is the real danger of opening Classic, now we have the WoW crowd divided, and retail can further down in the shitshow, while the hardcore focus on Classic, and, hopefully, Classic+.
Lets also not forget that retail is getting a level shrink to 60, i wouldnt be surprised if they create a way to connect retail and classic somehow.

They've been "doing" that since Cataclysm, but it's obvious that they are too pussy to take the deep plunge. Maybe now with Classic servers they can eliminate the factions and keep Classic WoW as the faction based MMO fork.

i will shit on ions porch if this retarded shit happens

Of course the leak is fake.
But Helya's also not dead, the expansion is still 100% likely to be Shadowlands and she'll pop back up with her deal with Sylvanas being relevant.

Attached: 1534377320010.png (346x510, 341K)

everything is wrong in bfa
i dont think you can fix this game
since they implemented pokemon you can understand how much of a rancid dogshit the game has become
they should start by making classes feel different again and give them a actual mechanically intensive gameplay so you actually have to use your brain before pressing your buttons instead of repeating the same pattern for ever
but this will just make a minimal improvement. the game is corrupted and classic is their only hope.

>deal with Sylvanas being relevant.
stop pushing this
>m-muh deal
a deal that sylvanas failed because of genn
jfc kys faggot cunt

you know what fuck it. we're about to have fucking undead paladins and all kinds of dumb shit just do it. just go completely retarded who cares anymore man

lets do gnome druids too who gives a fuck

>terrible class design
>azerite gear did not replace tier gear and is just a lazy design
>Titan forging has destroyed the pace of raiding
>no new abilitys from leveling
>mythic plus system is the same from legion but has also destroyed the flow of loot
>AP grind still exists as way to increase play time when wanting to play with your friends or making alts used to do the same thing
>removal of master loot from guilds that raid heroic or higher have turned the raids into nothing but slot machines making it extremely hard to motivate players to farm post first clear.
>Carry runs and gold selling take up more of trade chat than ever

Aside from AP and the lie that Azerite armor would be a suitable replacement for raid armor the majority of the problems come from blizz policing all the social aspects of their MMO turning it into a basically single player effort outside or Mythic raiding maybe.

If he's nothing else, why does Jaina says "i'm so proud of MY King". Why is his HIGH King, and not just commander?
Blizz doesn't know its own lore, and the fact that every one bows to Anduin shows that indeed, he's their king.
HIGH King = He's the king of the other factions.
>Lol
It's literally explained in Wolfheart why Tyrande chose Varian as her King : Because in a dream, Elune advises her to do so.
>Why would BElves among all other living creatures would care about Night Elves?
They just don't like genociding people perhaps. Velen saved them, Elves are still their cousins and helped them during tft, etc. In fact them supporting the Horde to invade the nelf makes 0 sense.
>The goal was to cripple the Alliance and it's not like after that ANYONE raised a word.
Yes, by taking the Nelf into hostage. No one raised a word because apparently they are all afraid of her.
>Retard
Waifufag.
>TBC had only 3 major problems
And they are 1000x worst than BFA
You also forgot Troll killing the Amanis, Orcs killing their ex-chief, etc.

Stop, user. You are embarrassing yourself, and outing yourself as an ubercasual for being worse than a casual like me.

Attached: 346323123534.jpg (215x235, 7K)

FF14 is barely better than GW2 which is the worst mmo ever made in human history.

Even fucking Tortanic was better than your crappy game.

>gnome druids
>mouse bear, cat feral, actual chicken boomkin, sunflower treant, goldfish underwater and sheep travel
make it happen.

>telling Blizzard anything
>Blizzard ever listening, especially to the WoW audience
retarded ffxivfag is retarded

This. I played about 300 hours as a BLM and got halfway through Stormblood before dipping out.

It's even more tedious than Classic WoW and not in a good way.

>no argument
;^)

>Blizzard ever listening, especially to the WoW audience
That's what they do since vanilla.
In fact retail is the product of that.

BfA has great raid content which is the only thing I care about. AP grinding can go to hell.

How the fuck is this game still alive. It feels like for the last 7 years I've thought "okay but this gotta be the last expansion" yet new ones keep dropping

Attached: myface.jpg (975x590, 34K)

>shamans still fucked a year+ into the expac with no plans to fix them
>don't even have a class design lead
Thank god for Classic

Retail is the product of Blizzard looking at other MMOs and stealing whatever those introduce to the market. Remember Wildstar and garrisons?

>he doesnt know
they have planned xpacs at least until 2024
maybe even 2026

Well, I was leveling, mindlessly wanding things to death for a couple of hours now, when it suddenly hit me that classic wow is not for me.
Logged out, logged into my retail shadow priest, queue’d a BG and I started dabbing on niBBas in WSG.
I think retail will be fine, just give it a month

>their previous class design lead played on a tablet

It was only "fun" if you rolled a Blood DK

Attached: WoWScrnShot_090819_144934.jpg (2560x1440, 871K)

it's fun because the lead class designer plays an orc shaman

Attached: 1594722873459.jpg (2035x1595, 132K)

I would pull away from all the streamlining aspects and go back to it's roots of being an MMO first, RPG second, then whatever else last, instead of currently just being a raid tier every few months and arenas to get the minimal pointless boring progression that blizzard has entirely planned out for you ahead of time, there's absolutely 0 player agency in wow anymore, and practically 0 player interaction when doing anything besides Raids, Blizzard seriously needs to start focusing on the entire world they're trying to build rather than forcing everyone to do boring shit they have made clear they don't want to do

Watcher isn't the lead class dev.

>BFA's fail give me a shimmer of hope that just maybe it will force blizzard to make new Warcraft games
>Not just War 4, but something new in general, in order to re-coup the losses and bring people back
>Then classic comes out and cements the fact that people are rather play shitty decade year old MMO than something new
>Plus classicfucks funded the continued support of a cancer that is retail for 2-3 expansions ahead
I fucking hate MMOfags so much.

Attached: 1521254499817.jpg (480x337, 19K)

How is master loot an issue? If you're anal about who should get what loot, you could still just redistribute it.

>If he's nothing else, why does Jaina says "i'm so proud of MY King".
Same reason why your Kul'Tiras recruiting quest is to build ship for Anduin
>HIGH King = He's the king of the other factions.
No, idiont
>Elune advises her to do so.
it doesn't make Varian Elune's Chosen.
>They just don't like genociding people perhaps. Velen saved them, Elves are still their cousins and helped them during tft, etc.
Are we surely talking about the race which said "fuck light we will take instead of asking", which was abbandonned to die by Night Elves?
>Yes, by taking the Nelf into hostage. No one raised a word because apparently they are all afraid of her.
So they are cuks, yeah great motivation I would count it as heavily pro-Alliance wirriting, but since Alliance is pathetic as well, I will just count it as bad writting.
>Waifufag.
Projecting much, Goldenfag?
>And they are 1000x worst than BFA
Nope
>You also forgot Troll killing the Amanis, Orcs killing their ex-chief, etc.
>t.retard who never played Classic or WC3

>remove scaling
>remove GCD
Fixed

why would classic money go to retail?
in retail, they only need to make quality raid fights and then copy paste almost anything else
classic money of course is separated and will go somewhere else.

>Blizzard seriously needs to start focusing on the entire world they're trying to build

Funny how I was more engaged in WoW Classic zones, reading the quests and figuring out where things were within a zone, even if it wasn't that difficult. I understand why people may have zoomed out at the map and thought "holy shit, this is immense", especially back in the day. Meanwhile in Retail all those same zones exist and another 5 expansions worth of quests/zones/level/dungeon/raid design everywhere, that goes almost entirely unused except to very quickly level up and make sure it's behind you to get to BFA already.

Yeah you right, it will go in yachts and cocktails, coke and whores

Gameplay and balance is absolute shit

>"durr, durr he wasn't chosen by Elune. "
your goddess tells you to choose X as your leader.
Yes HIGH King implies that. Hence why everyone accept Anduin as their leader. Jaina calls Varian her King, it's another hint.

>Are we surely talking about the race which said "fuck light we will take instead of asking", which was abbandonned to die by Night Elves?
End of TBC, they are just High Elf on Horde. Velen saves them. You really think they will got on full genocide against the alliance after that just because Dark Lady says so?

>"vengeance for Zuljin"
>never played Wc3

I just want Demonology Warlock to go back to being the tale of a man and his demon partner, instead of every encounter summoning five felstalkers, a slew of infernals, seven maids a-milking, and a pair of felguards.

Ion gets to bang 50 underaged hookers in Mexico on the weekends, what a god

Demonology Warlock is kind of an asshole, summoning all those demons to do his bidding and dismissing them moments later, repeatedly.

oh nonono

Attached: shad.jpg (984x355, 96K)

I miss Legion and all it's class-based shit like halls, artifacts and quests.

Except warriors. Fuck everything to do with Warriors in Legion.

Attached: 1200px-Chamber_of_Shadows.jpg (1200x681, 79K)

I thought Warrior Order hall was dope, but it really only made sense for Humans and Dwarves.

Attached: 492818-warrior-order-hall.jpg (1920x1017, 536K)

So basically what I got from this thread is "BfA bad because streamer said so, Story is NPC and SJW riddled." doesn't matter since I skip those But the one I agree the most is that the quests gives you a repeatative formula and makes you switch off after an hour of gameplay or two.

Either ways I'm keeping BfA.

Attached: 1567254112846.jpg (125x122, 3K)

>The thing that annoys me the most is that Blizzard constantly decide to tell rather than show. Every quest you do, there's 5 minutes of fucking NPCs emoting at each other. For a lot of the quests, that's ALL that happens, your entire quest is to watch these two NPC's emote at each other. Sometimes (far too often) they also play horrible, stilted voice acting over the top. Half the quests in BfA are "Hey follow this random fuckwad you just met some place while he dumps exposition you don't give a shit about". It's horrible, it's like Blizzard thought "Hey you know what was the worst decision we ever made? Letting people skip quest text".
That's literally what showing means you retard.
Telling would be that same thing but in the quest text.

The zone itself looked nice, but it felt more paladin than warrior. I just didn't like all the Vrykul shit they shoved down our throats - it actively made me resent it and I'm usually a sucker for that discount viking bullshit. Just hated having to hang around with a bunch of literally whos, being a lackey for someone else and actively being separated from my own class. Also the artifacts were shit too.

>still giving a fuck about retail
MOUNTS
PETS
CHEEVOS

I think stuff like the cinematic screenshot and the map + logo and expac name is real, but the stuff that was posted with it is all speculation bullshit.
We'll know in two months.

Attached: 4akhb4pskcc31.jpg (4032x3024, 3.61M)

Yeah dude I loved the epic quest line to get my 3rd relic slot that consisted of
>do 10 world quests
>do 3 mission tables
>get a thing from legion dungeon
>do 3 mission tables
So cool and fitting of my class fantasy!!!

wow more pets mounts cheevos shit and boring leveling to get to the epic raids you do in lfr

yawn

People who liked legion deserved BfA. You got more of the same garbage you defended in Legion.

Every class dealt with that timegating shit, but we also got stuff like raising 4 Horsemen and your own Frostwyrm as DK.

The DK class campaign was the best by far really. Can't wait to see where it leads when Bolvar returns in the next expansion. I think we'll finally get a new DK starting area with new races unlocked too.

Attached: New_Four_Horsemen_1.png (1010x1230, 2.01M)

They need to use the "healing azeroth" mcguffin to do a massive reset, squish the levels back to 60 and make retail effectively classic+.
This is the only way to get players back.

I came in a WoW retail thread to talk about WoW retail.

Level squish is already pretty much confirmed.

Because 99% of WoW players are keyboard turning, mouse clicker retards that don't even know their class, much less the other 9(or 10 or 11 dunno) they would need to know to become good at PvP.

PvP has always been entertainment for a very autistic subset of players. And I'm saying this from a hardcore PvPer, we we're always a minority that got a scrap battleground and a new arena each expansion if any.

WoW players are, on average, shitter, they want raids because they find comfort in hiding their shittiness in big groups, and because no boss is nearly as complex as an actual player class in PvP.

the last dh quests where the deceiver appears were kino

Attached: file.png (1280x720, 1.29M)

There’s also that shipwright that can build the best ships in less than a day and is also a super powerful shaman without any former training or even knowledge of what a “shaman” is.

Damn man, I love Legion 7.3. Antorus was so awesome. What a great raid. Miss running that shit. The first boss, the second boss, The Council, Aggramar, The Coven (my favorite WoW raid boss), the last boss was awesome too. What a great raid. Nothing beats ICC though.

Attached: Victor.jpg (211x343, 12K)

I really hope they'll do this, that way I can be sure that I will never ever touch anything Blizzard related ever again. All the bullshit they had the cunt do, and now finally everyone is waking up to the bullshit she does, and it turns out it was just a grand plan to save everyone? That would be the greatest fuck you they could ever deliver.

I don't give a shit about that. For once I was actually doing rogue-ish things and hanging out with other rogues being general dicks for a good reason. I don't remember doing that since fucking Cata.

MORALLY GREY

LOL

i don't really like the classes
they feel too samey and streamlined (builder-spender) and lack a class identity
i also don't like how no ability really has any impact except maybe chaos bolt
like a crit is just another number when i'm fighting a mob and doing 10k damage is nothing when the mobs has another 200k to get through and i just feel like i'm hitting a meatshield for no real reason
when i crit in classic or use a strong ability i really feel like i'm tearing my enemy (player or mob) to shreds but in BFA i get basically no feedback from my actions

Wakanda chick is a mary sue, Jaina isn't.

Your playing a glorified XIV collectathon.

cry moar

Attached: based.jpg (599x498, 70K)

>liking aggramar
>considering coven a good fight
is this shitposting or brain damage I can't tell

But that's the great thing about the concept of the Warfronts, you could have PvE activities, like resource gathering, building, repairing that would be alright for shitty players. As long as the rewards are worth it, they will participate.
Its just such a wasted opportunity it makes me rotate out of rage.

Shit players love pvp.

sylvanas will be a boss and eventually jaina too because they cant help but kill their old characters and they are running out of those

I know, it was such a stupid easy fight, and actually repetitive and boring, but I like when he yelled "NONE CAN STAND AGAINST TAESELACH!"

Blizz isn't going to seriously make another Warcraft game, especially since WoW can be profitable with a very small subscriber base thanks to MTX.

Blizz also isn't in the business of trying to innovate new genres, so an RTS type Warcraft would be highly unlikely. I'd bet that they'd try an open-world game akin to TES, but set in the Warcraft universe before they'd try to revive the RTS games beyond their remakes.

will be killed* jaina is already a boss

BFA is a product of 12 years of bad decisions, mostly a hyper raid focused development team that tailors every peice of content around the speedrun world first 'esport' that isn't really a thing no matter how hard Ion Hozzikostas wants to force his ideal WOW experience down people's throats.

WOW was popular because WOW was a laid back, piss easy MMO that only challenged you to make friends to clear dungeons and raids, thats it, the content wasn't hard, it was dealing with other people and convincing them to give you loot that was hard.

BFA could be the most well tuned, most optimized, best expansion ever and no one would care because 99% of the playerbase don't give a fuck about mythic raiding or M+ caches, and those who do quickly get burnt out because everything they work for is fleeting as every patch makes the previous patch's worth of progression content completely void and null, meaning all you have to do is play the same shit on mild, medium, and spicy mode.

To my Retail buds,

I already have:
>120 Male Human Monk
>120 Male Worgen Druid
>120 Male Gnome Mage
>120 Male Tauren DK
>120 Male Goblin Shaman

Should I use my free 110 boost on any of these that I'm leveling?
>85 Male Orc Hunter
>76 Female Human Rogue
>67 Female Void Elf Priest
>51 Female Dark Iron Dwarf Paladin
>46 Male Dwarf Warrior

Or should I use it on a new combination? Welcome to any. I was thinking:
>Female Panda Warrior
>Undead Warlock
>Male Tauren Shaman

Attached: godzilla got busy.jpg (450x436, 119K)

>it was such a stupid easy fight
oh so you just don't do raids on a real difficulty. It is just brain damage.

Carry on retard

>n64 players discover pc, pc players gets addicted to wow in 2005-2007
damn nigga you retarded

Asmomgold likes BfA though. He's addicted and has sunk cost syndrome, just like every retail drone. I played through WoD and it was strictly because raiding was still intact. In BfA raiding is fucking obliterated. Retarded grinds, retarded traits, Titanforging, gutted classes, and most of all no fucking master loot. BfA is a slot machine mount collection game.

>I'd bet that they'd try an open-world game akin to TES, but set in the Warcraft universe before they'd try to revive the RTS games beyond their remakes.
>an open-world game akin to TES, but set in the Warcraft universe
>a singleplayer warcraft RPG
GIVE IT TO ME
RIGHT FUCKING NOOOOOOOOOW!!!!

Attached: 1510636145615.gif (192x197, 87K)

i hope you're trolling

nah

it's a feature they couldn't test any other way but by putting it out there, and it didn't work out, we grow by living our lives, not by going back

youtube.com/watch?v=0XQtn-4aZeA

BFA is primarily bad because unlike classic, you have nothing to work towards.

Everything is forced cookie cutter and streamlined and no niche content exists, everything is made for mythic raiding or arenas, everything else is simply a mindless grind with no direction or goal, just a big cumstain of world quest dots smattered on the map with nothing worth fucking doing except to unlock flying so you can avoid that shit, yet once you have flying unlocked you have no reason to ever fucking go back to that content anyway so whats the fucking point?

Dungeons are repetitive and boring, the gear is uninteresting because its all scaled to ilvl, where the only difference between them is what set of 2 of 4 main stats they have is, but 90% of your damage is baked into the item's ilvl anyway so its mostly about rolling the titanforge dice which after about a week of playing you're hard stuck on a weekly limit of how many dicerolls you can get to even remotely get a chance of an upgrade.

Meanwhile in classic I have like 3 different sets to farm for PVP, DPS, and tanking on my warrior alone, with different optimal and suboptimal options from various sources of content, and even once raids start kicking off and im farming MC on a weekly basis, at least my MC gear doesn't become obsolete to some welfare shit when BWL drops, meanwhile my 8.1 gear has been made obsolete, not by new gear, but by the same fucking gear I got from M+ which magically got its ilvl increased by 30 fucking points for no reason other then to keep recycle boring as shit boss hallways that no one gives a fuck about

> GCD changes
someone's been scooped some opinion into their empty head xD

>Hype up Malfurion finally doing something
>Jobs and then Tyrande takes the spotlight instead

Attached: 800px-A_Good_War_-_Saurfang_vs_Malfurion.jpg (800x957, 117K)

gameplay is literally unchanged, your opinion is HOT GARBAGE

this would be great, i'm still hoping for a cataclysm style full-world revamp that wipes away all the old-canon shit and brings us to a full present world

The fuck you talking about. They nerfed the fuck out of Artifacts in BfA, which were core to a lot of how Legion classes played.

> there's nothing in the game to reflect that

Lordaeron is a post apoc wasteland now

nah

it's weird right? how can they not see it? the theme of legion was top their, but gameplay was ass
classes were killed in bfa even more though so it opened many eyes only after that

>Boosting an Allied Race

Only do that if you've already gotten their Heritage Armor you fool.

don't forget legion was a big success

The story is god awful and completely meaningless. There are dozens of magguffins and the power creep is insane.
Questing is a race to max level.
Dungeons are piss easy unless you do mythic.
Community is completely dead.
Game is designed to be a Skinner box miles beyond what they could conceive for early WoW.
Alliance versus Horde is completely meaningless.

>World Quests

Did you mean "World Dailies" ?

>Can we discuss retail instead of Classic for once?
Roastie.
Liberal.
Trans.

artifact level is your character level nowadays, don't forget, 120 is just to get to the game

>Dungeons are piss easy unless you do mythic.
and mythic becomes easy too once you get appropriate ilvl

Whatever the fuck blizzard wants to call them these days

Attached: mmoplayers.png (2732x1078, 2.27M)

do you know how hard it is to solidify the argument that you THINK someone is going to go to war? horde and alliance have been at war forever it's not like what sylvanas started was anything new

They really need to give Mograine back the Ashbringer or maybe Shadowmourne, The leader of the four horsemen needs an iconic weapon

this is one of the biggest problems with current wow (not specifically BFA) but brainlets will say something a streamer or youtube video forcefed them

that's whole reason why RNG loot system is bad. I prefer bis system from classic more.

I'm enjoying classic with my friends on discord but the more they tell me about retail the more I want to play it 'cause it sounds fun. They said I'd probably personally like it more and it sounds believable.

Attached: 1566601419364m.jpg (1024x575, 129K)

the dungeon finder feature makes 10000000% better groups than LFR can

ah yes, that classic jewish scheme of funneling money from a profitable product into a failing one

I'd say it's not random loot that's shitty but how they handle it. I'm sure if they managed the pool of items better, and if they were more stat like before, it could be really nice. AND you could still keep defined items anyway.

It would even rejuvenate this sad auction house, and trading.

>Funny how I was more engaged in WoW Classic zones
part of it is because youre not Chad Thundercock who saved the world ten times over. shits old, you'll never be a budding adventurer again. your character needs to die, but that will never happen in wow.

>Azerite level grinding
you know the grind is entirely illusory, right? you only grind for yourself, not to actually get anything. once you are level 65 anything beyond is just intentionally wasting your own time

>Golden's self insert isnt a mary sue
(You)

One of the rare case I would be ok for "IT WAS ALL A DREAM GUYS"

>log in for nazjatar patch
>put in a cutscene where we're going out into the middle of the sea for literally no reason
>all the nazjatar shit happens, water goes away, etc etc
>take 2 steps into new zone
>giant hologram of Azshara with a booming voice: "YOU DID WELL TO MAKE IT THIS FAR HEROES, I AM THE VILLAIN OF THIS PATCH"
>log off

Modern wow is an on-rails theme park with writing quality of a saturday morning cartoon that gets canceled after one season

Attached: 1548764915003.jpg (1065x859, 76K)

it's not really alive maybe 200k playing retail in the west classic has 2 million players right.

BfA is making me reconsider WoD. Now I think it was not that bad.

what's lore rape about it, even vanilla has undead priests who use holy magic

back to twitch

>Only thing to do in retail is titanforge shit and collect mounts
>97% of mounts look like fucking garbage

Attached: WoW_in_a_nutshell.jpg (844x769, 528K)

blizzard has some of the worst single digit IQ writing in the world. all there shit has been boiling down to someone fucking up for the whole expansion and then a great asspull comes along where they can go BUT THEY WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG AND PLAYING 4D CHESS, it happens every single expansion now and you have mouthbreathing retards like this faggot defending it because this time its MUH BANSHEE KWEEN

WoW died when BElfs joined the Horde change my mind

It's even more holy than what priests can handle and undead already hurt themselves if they want to use holy/disc magic.

The weird thing is that this timegating actively hurts casuals more than midcore players because you have to play every day with no break.

That is certainly a part of it. Some quests straight up treat you like just another dumb recruit, who will be rewarded with some random mass-produced sword if you do the simple quest. Which by the way, is probably a massive upgrade compared to whatever trash you currently have. I love how at the very start of it, it's an upgrade to put on grey gear that is considered "trash" because you have nothing. Compare that to retail where you are flying through dungeons, leveling up faster than you can pay attention to how many dungeons you are unlocking and being rewarded with blue gear that becomes EPIC PURPLE SUPER GEAR!! randomly, and yet absolutely none of it seems to matter.

Nope.
If you still haven't unlocked Legion allied races you gotta do your argus dailies every fucking day

they didnt lower the reqs at all

Lorewise the vast majority of Forsaken priests are Shadowpriests. Forsaken Holy priests suffer torment with every spell they cast.
Lightforged Shadow Priests lorewise don't exist.
It's shitty like that.

with human druids being a thing I don't see it as a far shot to make once humans, paladins
they aren't truly unholy skeletons since they're just reanimated humans under a curse

Grats on the world first 60, William.

you want to be depressed? level a fresh character in post cata wow. every single fucking quest you remember being difficult can be solod and will give you a blue. they completely forgot, or possibly never knew, what made wow and rpgs in general fun.

Hey, they're not ALL garbage
The ones that cost $25-$30 look pretty cool

Belfs should be neutral. Just like Nelf.

>Just like Nelf.
Yeah that makes sense. They should be neutral to the faction that sacked their city, and before that invaded their land and burned it.

> the power creep is insane
yeap
> Lightforged space station just orbiting in space that could be utilised to wipe out every horde capital - not in use
> Warrior of Elune ritual was supposed to kill everyone who even witnesses it
> lmao nah, all of you audience are fine
> Night Warrior can't even beat a mere ranger after wiping out an entire army DBZ style
it's all so tiredsome

Attached: you what nigga.png (364x385, 83K)

>4 raid difficulties
>Retards only running MDI winning comps for their +4, and still wipe.
>New tier normal mode raid immediately invalidates 99% of gear from the previous tier across all difficulties
>Personal loot
>Titanforging
>levelling so shit everyone gets a boost every expansion
the list goes on really

>ask in the dead global chat if there's any slick or thin mont design
>massive perplexitude explosion

That's also one of the reason the game sucks. Everybody has a mega rare shiny stuff. Ridiculous.

Only way to fix this without breaking the game would be to release new sober mounts that has some kind of speed bonus. But once it's done, it's done, shitty situation to fix, shitty situation to stay in.

Where did i say that

Belfs should be Alliance with Goblin going Horde for TBC

faction merge is happening in 9.0 anyway, so Belfs can hang out in Stormwind & hopefully stay there

those class skins should have been implemented ages ago desu

>Belfs should be neutral. Just like Nelf.
?

I don't play WoW, I just want more Sylvanas cinematics. So whatever the expansion is, I hope she plays a major role.

Attached: D0pQNdpWwAMHmy_.jpg (1365x2048, 646K)

>Public service announcement:
You CAN delete your Blizzard account permanently without proof od ID if you still have a physical authenticator attached to it. You do NOT need to provide an ID for them to proceed. I share this because for years I didn't sell nor delete it because I didn't want to surrender even more info to the overlords, but now pic related.

Face it, Blizzard will never recover.

Attached: Untitled.jpg (1612x957, 204K)

> Lightforged space station just orbiting in space that could be utilised to wipe out every horde capital - not in use
haha retard, dont you know that when a new expansion comes out we're supposed to forget what happened in the last one

>No unique equipment thanks to ilvls
>Leveling is just a chore you do to get to max level
>The story has no consistency whatsoever and characters constantly flipflop according to whatever brain fart enters Christie Golden's head at the time
>Making raids daycare for retards who want free epics
>Pruned abilities
>Pruned stats
>Developer mandated skill rotations
>'Specializations' which pick all of your traits for you
>Spells which do the same amount of damage and healing, just in a different way
>Resource management barely exists for most classes

What bothers me the most is Blizzard's design philosophy of retard-proofing any character building options you have. It's so mindnumbingly boring to get new gear because the new stats don't do anything interesting and the gear itself has no unique utility to offer. You just get it to increase an arbitrary number necessary for the hot new raid Blizzard shits out in their latest patch.

Attached: american gothic.jpg (1200x800, 83K)

Definitely, Red Cloud and the mage reskin of it are one of the few newer mounts I like because it's just a disc with a nimbus under it and that was from Pandaria.

are you some kind of moron?

based

Neutral as neither Horde or Alliance.
They should fight the Orcs but not become part of a faction as well. They should be their own faction like in wc3.

Blizzard shot themselves in the foot with their decision to make old content irrelevant. Removing stuff from previous expansions hurt new players and making the next patch make the previous raid irrelevant frustrates current players.

They really need to make a raid be worth it for an entire expansion, stop removing stuff from old expansions, and, for me most importantly, let players play how they want. Remove timegating, reduce a lot how important dailies are, and let people burn themselves out if they want.

Retail comes free with Classic sub so it's not THAT bad. Plus I can be a Pandaren Monk and feel special as I'm only like, 2% of the playerbase.

Attached: 1515989411990.png (421x282, 92K)

Classic design has been severely shat on since the end of Cataclysm, the only "improvements" they've made to any so far is just removing over half the abilities from the game.

arms warrior gameplay in antorus was kino

No, I don't waste my time on things I don't like.

>Classic
>Get drop
>It's pre-raid BIS
>I don't have to fucking worry about that slot now
>Feels fucking great to achieve a goal and complete something
>Loot is memorable and exciting
>Game feels like an actual video game made by people who like and play video games

Meanwhile in BFA
>Get drop from weekly lootbox
>Maybe it has the correct secondary stats
>Maybe the ratio is budgeted properly
>Maybe it has gem slots
>Maybe it has the right azerite traits
>Maybe it warforged
>Maybe it titanforged
>Maybe it has other random tertiary stats
>Plug my character into an external spreadsheet to simulate all possible outcomes to find optimal stat weights as my character scales
>Loot is forgettable and unsatisfying
>The end result is that people don't give a shit about their gear anymore
>Best in slot is a concept long dead, there is no point in which you've effectively finished anything, strung along by weighted RNG specifically engineered by psych majors with spreadsheets and focus groups to find the optimal way to string you along for as long as possible
>There is always some pointless grind you can waste your time on with no end in sight, no final goal to reach in any reasonable amount of time
>Game feels like a phone game developed by a soulless shell of a corporation
"Guys it's not THAT bad" - Retarded zoomers fucking everywhere

Attached: 1566978573394.jpg (724x540, 136K)

ok, cool
but take your meds next time

>They really need to make a raid be worth it for an entire expansion
the problem with this is that nobody plays the game for an entire expansion anymore. they need "seasonal" gear resets by adding the next raid tier + catchup gear and content patches to get a burst of players to resub for a month or two.

If it wasn't for WoW Classic, WoW in general would be in deep trouble right now
>come off a decent expansion like Legion
>get told by everyone in beta the BFA systems and class changes were terrible and press ahead anyway
>the systems are terrible and everyone but the most shit-swilling of fanboys hate it
>story is bad as ever, it's attempts to be something "deep" about war are laughably bad
>Uldir is the only positive in a tide of shit
>Purposely withhold a major advertised feature in Zandalari trolls and Kul'tirans for over six months so peoples six month subs expire first
>subs continue falling, pinch of salt api leak puts it at 1.6 milion
>CEO of OTHER GAME confirms it tipped over 1 million active and growing despite being five years old with latest expansion being given a glowing reception meanwhile

Attached: ohnonon.jpg (213x236, 8K)

>>come off a decent expansion like Legion

XIV captured the "modern, casual" MMO formula better than BFA without making its end-game a frustrating endless treadmill of RNG loot

the downfall of BFA is that many people just can not stomach the awful endgame where you wait for random timegated world quests to pop up, cross your fingers for a random timegated loot every wednesday, and get shat on by people who got the same piece of gear as you in a raid but with better stats only because of the RNG slot-machine game design

meanwhile XIV gives casuals what they really want, which is a pretty painless end-game grind where you can set very realistic goals for yourself thanks to a tried-and-true token system for weekly gear, and a fuckload of casual side activities (housing, the casino, treasure maps, etc) that don't involve sitting on your ass in a capital city refreshing a LFG list or staring blankly at your world map waiting for that one world quest to pop up that will increase whatever reputation you're trying to grind

so BFA (or rather, cataclysm WoW and onward) destroyed the core WoW formula to appeal to a wider and wider casual audience only to lose it because they went so deep into the ultra-casualization that they just sucked out every last bit of fun from their game, replacing it with frustrating systems that aim only at keeping you subscribed longer while playing less and spending more on the cash shop

Attached: 1562671474821.jpg (600x600, 32K)

Honestly, I think at this point, Blizzard just needs to wipe the slate clean. Kill off everyone; Sylvanas, Anduin, Jaina, Thrall, Baine; if they have a name you can remember, they're out. Let the next expansion be rebuilding from the ashes, giving new blood a chance to struggle and fight. Maybe they can keep one guy, but that's it.
Also shift a couple of the existing races into neutral while they're at it.

Well done
Cope

>>story is bad as ever, it's attempts to be something "deep" about war are laughably bad
im convinced the story being so shit is because the writers watched game of thrones and thought they could do it in wow. bitchy schemeing strong female villain, killing main characters, morally grey crap. its surface level brainlet game of thrones copying.

i played wod, despite the drought i enjoyed the gameplay and got a good chunk of my alts fairly geared and did decent in pvp, in bfa I have no lust to do these things because i have the heart to make better the essences to get again and it is too much not fun for the little fun i could have

lol they manage to lower the bar every expansion
>decent expansion like legion

That was always the case. They also copied Bionicle. Like Metzen got lucky during wc3 as a bunch of characters where great, but in a MMO you immedialty loses that proximity with the characters.
But then he continued to copy everything he found cool but it stopped working, and that's how we got "there must always be a lich king" : Because he liked Pirate of the Caribbean.

>a fuckload of casual side activities (housing, the casino, treasure maps, etc) that don't involve sitting on your ass in a capital city refreshing a LFG list or staring blankly at your world map waiting for that one world quest to pop up that will increase whatever reputation you're trying to grind
I don't get why Retail has any side activities like that, XIV's endgame loop is pretty shallow when you just do savage and cap on tomestones but crafting, housing and even artifact questlines makes up for it. You'd think Blizzard would try to get people away from titanforging shit by now.

I mean, there's a reason nobody is saying good or great and instead just "decent". Legion took a few steps in the right direction with a few missteps. There was room for optimism. And then we somehow get BFA launch which feels more like Legion 0.5.

A lot of that is to do with their strategy when releasing expansions. Instead of fucking breaking and ruining everything every two years they usually just add stuff.
>Instead of completely gutting and fucking classes over for the 17th time, just add some cool new shit except for sch and ast lmao
>Instead of removing old content, keep it relevant with sync where you can run the content at its original level cap at comparable item levels and (since classes aren't completely fucked every single expansion) comparable rotations to either play with low level buds or go back and do things you missed

I unironically thought legion was great. Im probably biased because I got my best legendarys early

>launch which feels more like Legion 0.5.
That's the worst feeling. BFA feels like the precursor expansion to Legion.

> Removing stuff from previous expansions hurt new players
> stop removing stuff from old expansions
elaborate on this please

Putting a time gate on how much I'm allowed to play when I'm already paying you a monthly free is completely unacceptable.

>Instead of removing old content, keep it relevant with sync

This is probably my absolute biggest beef with WoW. They seem to be taking steps to finally catch up with FFXIV with the leveling zones and now working on some sort of party sync system, but it puzzled me to get to 110 for the first time, being halfway through a questing zone before the game went "Nope, too bad, this is too low level for you now, move along" and ignoring all these massive raids as simply old history that have no place in the game anymore. They also moved backwards by trying to work some of them into timewalking dungeon/raids but even that is a very slow effort. By comparison I feel like I played FFXIV and got to see nearly all of the "content" of the base game all the way to the first expansion.

In WoW it's like "Oh, Uldir? That was last season and therefore entirely irrelevant for the rest of the game's existence. If you weren't there I guess it's just a waste now"

An example would be the field medic from the first aid profession in legion. It was removed when they removed first aid.

I understand that they want some form of reward for players that are playing in that moment, but this is the wrong way to do it. Any reward with a limited time should be either a very limited event, like two weeks of pre-expansion event or something very hard that would accessible to few players if done with correct gear.

Take the tower artifact skins. Removing them was stupid, because people could easily brute force through it once their gear level was high enough. It's how I got mine for the shadow priest, for example. So they are something that everyone that cared for them has, and their removal doesn't make them special. What it does is simply take away a reason for people to go back and do old content.

A reason to play mmo is having this big massive world you can explore, but blizzard is intentionally pushing people to only do the newest zone.

WoW has it, but since they're run by a bunch of phone game developers it only comes around during "events" every couple months, so make sure you do as much of it as you can right now or you'll miss out!

Legion had some rough ideas that by the end were fixed. Throwing everything away to start from scratch was retarded.

Not as retarded as not listening to people about the class changes. Sometimes I wonder if the devs even play the game.

old dungeons, old abilities, old stats, old systems
talent trees, artifact abilities/powers, sockets being a base part of an item, etc etc etc etc
nothing is ever permanent in wow, each expansion makes the last completely irrelevant and discards any systems it implemented that could even be a positive experience with some tweaks/fixes (biggest case in point is artifacts). moreso, all prior content and character advancement is always made completely irrelevant so your knowledge/experience running it and the rewards you gained from it become worthless

Attached: 1549376485575.jpg (1280x1804, 553K)

What's this trying to say? Not to use the word 'the' too often? It's a fucking signpost word, that's insane.

Why Bfa sucks from the opinion of a GM/RL of a CE pre nerf mythic raiding guild.

>Average class complexity went down compared to previous expac
>Azerite respec is awful
>Every dungeon except maybe Freehold feels like they looked at Seat of the Council and decided that was what every BfA dungeon should feel like
>Mythic+ meta has been a complete disaster every tier, the removal of pylons make shroud required for every serious comp, the best healer is always the healer that does the most damage, the same for the best tank, this is because at the highest levels every group hits a dps wall before they hit a damage taken wall
>AP still around and still shit
>The AP grind shifted from M+ to World Quests
>Islands and Warfronts are boring but also mandatory for character progression to a certain extent
>Essences did nothing to solve the lack of complexity problem and everything to magnify the alt problem, this is probably the least alt friendly patch in WoW's 15 year history
>Benthic gear is just straight retarded, the healers in my guild are still grinding pearls every day for socket/leech items
>BoD was a 1 boss raid, Queens court is a 2 boss raid with the worst class stacking since Zul
>Lack of tier sets

To expand why a lack of tier sets matters so much you just have to look at how a class will typically change throughout an expac. Blizzard don't like to make sweeping spec changes mid expac and so it was up to tier set bonuses to change ANYTHING about how a class plays tier to tier. Azerite was meant to be a replacement for tier but it has failed miserably, most classes BiS azerite powers don't change rotations at all and they barely add any between tiers aside from lame global ones.

Basically, BfA is shit.

Can't wait for 9.0: Shadowlands, where Blizzard will somehow take all the wrong lessons from Azerite Gear, come up with changes nobody asked for while finding a way to reskin and keep the stuff that really works like Garrisons for the third time and eventually getting all of it to a mostly playable state by patch 9.3.5.

It's not trying to say anything, book was ripped page per page from Google books preview by looking for keywords the week before it released.

The point is Anduin being such a Mary Sue that he feels pain from old wounds when he's about to make a bad decision.

>old abilities, old stats, old systems
There has to be some sort of cut-off point, otherwise you'll get the opposite of now and bloat classes. Even if each spec got two new abilities with each expansion, you're looking at a total of upwards of fifty on top of base skills. And that's not even considering talent trees.

Someone will accuse me of defending retail and not just being realistic.

Attached: tumblr_p21l7mpQEc1qzgbeuo1_raw.jpg (782x1000, 279K)

The lack of any new talent tiers making leveling completely pointless, too. You forgot that.

OSRS is a good example of this, no quest is obsolete, and the OSRS team, despite failing in other areas, have done a good job on making sure new content added to the game doesn't completely make old content obsolete, but rather adds new options and niches, for example no one would ever fucking consider slayer farming metalic dragons until they added in the dragon slaying lance, which is pretty shit for killing anything but dragons.

>decent
Keep in mind we just came off of WoD, the expansion BFA is competing with to be the worst
Unfortunately, recent events show you can't just blame an MMO's story being shit because it's an MMO. It's entirely down to Blizzard. Can't even blame it on Christie Golden being a woman either, since Natsuko Ishikawa is also one.

Yep true, this is the first expansion EVER where leveling in the new content actually made you lose power, drastically.

First you lose your artifact, after you lose the tier bonus from the final raid of Legion, then you lose your legendaries all at the same time as your stats are plummeting towards pre first tier values AND no new talent or on use skills at max in addition to the fact that it was a stat squish leading to a 120 character that felt like absolute shit compared to 110.

I get that bloat is bad. I played during WoTLK and it was getting a bit much then, but the issue is that Blizzard went in the completely opposite direction and keeps taking skills away unnecessarily. Hell, they introduced Demon Hunter in Legion and even then, they pruned abilities from it in BFA. The older stats in the game weren't hard to understand either, but Blizzard removed them too.

I don't care about streamers and "influencers", but people in the know like Preach and Bellular confirm the devs have shut themselves off from the community because of retards making death threats/saying mean things and the like. Not that that's an excuse at all, if they bothered to actually manage the forums properly it wouldn't be an issue (I don't care if people were mean to you on Twitter, you deserve it for using Twitter).

There has to be a balance, that's sure. But look at what happened, Legion took away a lot of skills, gave something new (but less) through artifact weapons. And then BfA took away again, pissing people off even more by giving some of them back through talents.
Every 3 expansions you can have a pruning to take away stuff, you can't do it every time.

It would be a lot better if there were no pvp talents, and instead they used those talents as new spells for an expansion.

A major killing blow to retail was the fact that professions were made useless.

In Classic its insane how important they are and everyone needs to rely on everyone else

But retail? Does anyone even take profs anymore?

The forums are so bad. On one hand I want them to communicate more to the fans, on other hand I look at the us forum and I wish they closed the site.

Bloat is bad the way they did it all the way up until MOP, MOP was terrible with bloat which is why we started to see pruning from MOP onward.

The problem is the forced cookie cutter system, if you have thousands of options but you can only choose a handful, the game is fun and interesting, thats what was good about the old talents, the problem with the new talents is that you're pretty much hamfisted to play one way, and if you have too many options then you have more options to either make bad choices, or the scalability of content becomes nonsensicle, which is why MOP PVP was so fucking god awful, everyone having 20 instant cast CCs and defensives was fucking cancer.

And thats kind of the problem, blizzard dug themselves into the 'raid or die' hole, where the only content that actually matters gameplay wise is the highest tier of raiding and arena PVP, everything else doesn't even get playtested to see if its fun, they just make sure that people can not fail at it, but because of that there is no room for mastery in the game at all, mythic raiding is pretty much cut and paste, same with arenas, there is no choices for players to make because the game is so narrowly defined around these two systems, while the rest of the world is just a massive fucking faceroll that the gameplay might as well not exist, in fact it doesn't, most world quests are just shitty minigames like tortollan quests.

you're considering it from the position that you have to add the amount of new systems that blizzard does each expack to keep the game fun. you don't, blizzard just does it because deliberately discarding everything, starting over, making a new class/spec into the fotm and reinventing the wheel every expack creates a tourism meta that encourages people to come back and try it. "it's new and shiny and different, it'll be good this time" is the thinking they promote.
you wait and see, come end of bfa they'll ditch azerite and implement some entirely new system that serves roughly the same role for character progression as the heart did. just like with lelgion artifacts, no lessons will be learned and no positive elements of the system will be kept.
some pruning or optimizing is not necessarily a bad thing. but the way they just change things to make it different over and over is. something as simple as dispelling comes to mind, it was an OK idea to combine dispel magic and disease/poison/curse whatever else into one button, but then after that they went ahead and gave the whole dispel system a complete mechanical overhaul like three or four times to achieve basically nothing
>Someone will accuse me of defending retail and not just being realistic.
no, i just think you're missing the point, it's not about bloat and cuts/replacements, it's about actually improving their game instead of just revamping it over and over and hoping they'll hit gold. actually they probably don't even hope they'll hit gold, because they're just going to revamp it again next expack anyway so it doesn't matter if they do

Attached: 1536481156799.jpg (1104x1200, 358K)

I just Legion's systems gone in the next expansion. BFA doesn't even feel like an expansion, it's more like Legion never ended. Artifact Power HAS to go. Enough is enough, I could tolerate it in Legion because it was Legion's big new thing, but ENOUGH. World Quests have to go as well, people say they're "better" than dailies but I find them even more of a chore and they feel inescapable and make the world claustrophobic. They also make no sense and have no real story or anything behind them. Retire Mythic+: again, enough is enough. It's not fun anymore, and they need to try something new. Retire the fucking mission table already, it serves no purpose and is just a reminder of past expansions that weren't very good. NO MORE ALLIED RACES. It's gone way, way too fucking far already.

stop pretending you have any interesting information about you that anyone can use
no, the games you play or the porn you browse isn't interesting

>lazily remove class sets and make them role-based, purely because FF14 gets away with it
>forgets that FF14 has twice as many classes
Why are Blizzard so fucking retarded? Honestly it baffles me. Doesn't help the designs have been by and large awful too.

Attached: penn_jillette.jpg (300x400, 31K)

>BFA doesn't even feel like an expansion, it's more like Legion never ended
I think this is why I stopped playing at 112.
It just hit me that I was doing everything all over, all I did was meaningless.
I miss my guild though.

>Realm communities don't exist. Almost every player you see is from different realm and the chances you will see them again are astronomically low. Systems in-game make sure you will find people without having to say a word.
>This happened because Blizzard fucked up with realm faction ratios. Some realms have 99% horde population.
>Gear is fucking boring. It's basically two main stat, then two secondary stats and the amount you have is tied to the itemlevel of the item. You don't even care what you get, you just look at the itemlevel, put it in a simulation and decide whether you wear it or not. I can't remember the name of a single item I had when I raided in early BFA.
>Gear has absolutely no meaning anymore. Back then you'd clear the hardest content to get more powerful gear so you can kill shit faster. Nowadays everything scales and PvP has stat templates.
>Gear has too much randomness in it. Getting the specific item drop from a boss isn't enough because you also want tertiary stats, socket and boost to itemlevel through titanforging.
>Gear resets every major patch because the raids have four different difficulties.
>No motivation to do hardest raids because rewards in terms of gear are irrelevant to the world, and mounts aren't as cool as the ones you get from cash shop.
>Everything is fucking time-gated from new content to new raids and their difficulties.
>Annoying power resource grind that's also time-gated.
Just some points. If I ever come back to this game they would have to bring back single realms, force 50/50 or close to that faction populations. Just start fucking merging realms, I don't care about people losing their names or guilds, just do something about it. Playing two weeks of vanilla had made me realize how important it is to have a realm community. The current game is a fucking disgrace.

The ways things are looking they're killing the faction divide to begin with, that opens up a lot of possibilities.

Most people stay because of the sunken cost fallacy, and the social aspect. When I tried last month back after months and months, the few survivors of my guild looked so sad, it was depressing. And out of the 5 of them, 2 are living the country this fall, so they will stop (but for how long...)

>It just hit me that I was doing everything all over, all I did was meaningless.
To be fair, this is literally every expansion. Feeling your characters get progressively weaker with every new level you gain because of scaling while you replace your epics with quest items kinda sucks.

Fuck off retard

Biggest problem of BFA was TBC.

WOW's strength was that it was a casual, laid back, but community driven game, people worked together to do things, and the game challenged casual players just as much as it challenged hardcore players for example in vanilla there is an entire pre-raid BIS progression tied to dungeons like BRD, UBRS, DM, ect, and BRD alone has more content then each individual expansion's entire dungeon set.

The game is incredibly new player unfriendly, because there is a hard divide between the various levels of player types, you used to have hard casuals who just didn't have the time to raid thus would do dungeons on weekends with friends, you had the raiding casuals who would do 2 hours of progression on weeknights or only raid on weekends, you had your 'servers finest' raiders who were the people who were always trying to beat other guilds on the server as the first to kill a boss and put it on farm, then you have the .1%, who were the speed run world first kill nonsense faggots.

Most people were casuals who never got past tier 1/2, or tier 4 in TBC until they removed attunement then they would kill a few bosses in BT because the first 3 bosses of BT were piss easy.

But from 3.2 onward there is no room for casual PVE progression, if you're progressing slowly, then everything you do is just going to become obsolete in a patch, at first people were enjoying the welfare loot, "I can haz ICC gear?" for litterally logging in and doing faceroll dungeons, but after a few patches like this, people got really jaded and really bored really fast, why fucking bother doing raids? They're annoying to put together, they're time consuming, and i'll just get the gear for free in a few weeks so why fucking bother?

Fast forward and the 3.2 style of end game has gone off the deep end, blizzard doesn't even hide it anymore, the same exact content is just scaled up with +50 ilvl and +200 stats every patch, even though its the same fucking item

Attached: 1567384133359.png (1008x2216, 2.48M)

Retail sucks but you're retarded, all professions have use and some are REALLY strong, the problem is its pretty cookie cutter.

Engi make bis 445 azerite helm for many classes, Lw/Bs/Tailor make 440 with socket pants/boots, alch make alch trinket which is near bis for many healers + they get 2 hour flasks and are needed to make cauldrons, jewel crafters get the absolutely bonkers 440 socket rings and scribes are required for vantus. The only prof truly cucked is enchanting.

>the game challenged casual players just as much as it challenged hardcore players for example in vanilla there is an entire pre-raid BIS progression tied to dungeons like BRD, UBRS, DM, ect, and BRD alone has more content then each individual expansion's entire dungeon set.

Is this next level shitposting?

No, if you don't have time to do progression raiding you still have pre-raid BiS stuff to farm, in BFA you'll get through your pre M+ pre raid progression in a matter of hours

there are 36 of what classic wow used to call "classes" in BFA

The thing is running UBRS and BRD offers more casual gameplay that still requires you to group up with other people, while in BFA if you're not already established with a raiding/M+ group you're pretty much hardstuck in LFR, unless you somehow convince someone to bring you without raider.io padding

>Lets also not forget that retail is getting a level shrink to 60
wait what? how would they even do this?

>wants to finish an mmo
>exists in the real world
lol

oh no eyes of the beast whatever will we do without it

Even then, XIV still has new artifact armor every expansion for every single job, so you always have an option that works with your job's lore. Meanwhile, can you imagine being a Demon Hunter main in BFA and trying to maintain your class fantasy in a post-Legion world? It must be absolute suffering.

the entire world scales, are you seriously asking this? they could make the entire game level 1 to 10 if they wanted to and they'd only have to flick a button

you can easily do normal and heroic raiding and M+ up to +13~ on your own, just because you don't bother to try doesn't mean you can't

Nah, BFA has 3 classes. DPS, Tank and heal. All DPS specs are identical, all tank specs are identical, all heal specs are identical.

And for what? The content is recycled and the gear isn't worth jack shit.

I feel like the level shrink is necessary, there's no way to avoid it. It's absurd that you hit level 100 and that's straight up 100% it. You have all the skills you'll ever have right then and there, but you still have 20 levels to go.

I think LFD is fine as a concept, they just need to
>make it server based, so you don't run into people you'll never see again like you do when it's cross realm
>make dungeons hard enough so that you need to communicate
Spamming the chat for groups doesn't really add anything to the social experience desu.

the gear is never worth the time you invest, just because we've had 15 years to reflect on this, or are unable to because of some odd-colored glasses, doesn't mean there's any difference

people want their loot to matter and last but it never will, there'll always be some update in the future that will make the time wasted, it will happen on retail, it will happen on classic, you're a fool if you think any game will ever do otherwise

remember when WoW wasn't full of chinks? Oh wait.

people don't realize that LFD/LFR are different features from the dungeon finder, which is just a catalogue to make premading groups easier to assemble, a feature a lot of "bfa sucks" boys probably don't even know exists

even if 9.0 is the best thing ever made in history, you'll only have it for 2 years before B team fucks it up again

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (1280x720, 40K)

The artist's friends quit the game a long time ago and he still uses their characters in the comics.

No, their TELLING YOU the exposition and what it means for the questline/canon. Its a joke

Retail has less subs than Vanilla did in 2004-2005, if that doesnt say enough about Blizzard's choices in BfA I don't know what does.
(chinks dont count as they aren't human)

The gear hasn't mattered since 3.2, because of how the game has handled end game since 3.2

Yes, new gear should be better then old gear, but the gear you get shouldn't just be plain obsolete due to a single patch, even T2 and T3 was viable through most of BC if you happened to have it.

>forced to do pve content to not be inherently weaker than your average brainlet mythic raider in ARENAS

the only thing that matters and what makes the game truly shit

>Playing an MMORPG for a scuffed moba experience
Yikes

The instant teleport aspect needs to be removed immediately, but if it was only a feature to find you a group of other players that want to run a similar dungeon I honestly would not see much of an issue at all. Just from grouping with a friend in Classic recently as a tank/dps combo it's been such a pain to try and find a group that fits both of us, and I can only imagine it will get harder as time goes on.

I don't really get why everyone says BFA is bad. I enjoy it, but I have only played Vanilla and BC prior to BFA. Can someone tell me? Are systems in place not as good as previous expansions? I honestly love how the classes feel and play right now. I have 6 120s and some are geared.

>Christie Golden
I read her Arthas book and it was the worst thing i have ever read.

>World Quests have to go as well

No fuck that I like world quests. They create little hotspots for PvP and sometimes it turns into raidvraid.

Yes, I'm glad we're in agreement.

imagine giving your money to blizzard lol

It is, but this time it feels like legion never ended, like the guy said. It's different, at least for me.

>>make dungeons hard enough so that you need to communicate
Yeah, that's the thing. LFR would not be a problem if it wasn't its own difficulty. But it's part of the design, you have to do your daily 15 minutes mythic and your weekly 45 minutes raid.

THE ONLY GOOD LEGION SYSTEM

Is the fucking dynamic questing events, invasions and such, the legion launch invasion was how leveling should be made by default, randomized world events that offer big bursts of exp for participating as well as rewards like the nethershard gear they had.

Thats the only legion system that should be made baseline with the entire game, everything else, world quests, M+, artifact grinding, is just fucking boring recycled padding that people only like because its better then fuck all, when in reality we could have better end game content to begin with, rather then

They really need to bring PvP gear back and Im not talking about the shit you galet based on your arena rank once a week. Almost entirely pointless to do BGs these days.

>remove titanforging
>add tier sets back in
>no more artifact power grinding
>no more world quests
>unfuck class design, make classes feel unique instead of every ranged dps spec feeling the same etc.
>rework talents, anything would be better than we have right now
Do any of this for 9.0 and i might consider checking it out. I made the mistake of checking out BFA when 8.2 launched and i dropped it in less than a month. Shit is garbage.

Not that guy, but just because Trial was kind of a boring grind doesn't invalidate ICC. Though to be fair, Ulduar is a tough act to follow.

PvP has always been the real endgame of WoW, shitty. The whole point was always to take your new epic weapon and shove it up someone's ass not use it to get a better weapon in a few weeks. I don't understand loot treadmill PvErs.

Didn't they make gear irrelevant in pvp? Haven't played since Legion, did they kill pvp templates?

see what i mean about lowering standards
i know you guys mean like a step in the right direction, righting some of the wrongs of wod but i dont think blizzard takes it that way when you say decent
i enjoyed legion in terms of its story as a bizzarre crescendo of wow, where anything was on the table for whacky shit, giant dude trying to stab a planet, spaceships, Giving players the FUCKING ASHBRINGER
it was the continuation of the end tho, lets not pretend it wasnt, artifact power, a fun concept that was a grind that didnt matter by the end (yes i had fun being overpowered as shit by the end) strictly raider focused design for redoable content (wow guys method exist), class pruning, RNG ontop of RNG ontop of RNG, world quests
the game noticably ran worse than wod, with that issue getting worse in BFA
i was optimistic for BFA as well, how could you not be, with the entire internet throwing around interesting ways in which the story could go in a faction war expansion, being told BLIZZARD ARE LISTENING GUYS only works for so long, i think its pretty much the only thing that managed to push us all through legion
now legion is the comparison point, i dont want legion again, ive had legion, i want WORLD of WARCRAFT
people are doing the same shit with mop, i think mop wasnt a bad expansion but lets not pretend it wasnt hated for its duration, people only talk about it now because wod, legion and bfa are wank, before that was cataclysm which is also a hated expansion with reasons why its worse than wrath, same for wrath and tbc, even vanilla did things that were retarded,story wise or otherwise, every expansion has been a '+feature that works, +3 dogshit -prior expansions good content'
i want retail wow to be good again but i think its beyond saving and i dont trust them to do a classic + properly
blizz dont know what they want
the 'community' doesnt know what they want
world of MOGSMOUNTSCHEEVOS doenst even have new fucking mogs anymore

>non-player spoonfed opinions

It's better than classic by miles though.

I can see how the dps plays similarly, but heals and tanks are way different.

They all probably think all grouping is like grouping for normals/heroics and you just do it with the click of a button lmao

Okay, "player". What's your opinions on how blizzard should unfuck retail?
>inb4 it's fine
Nope.

shaman and paladin and holy and monk and druid all heal the fucking same

>>remove titanforging
>>add tier sets back in
>>no more sharding
>>no more artifact power grinding
>>no more mythics
>>unfuck class design, give us back our spells

Just started playing
Trolls are rad
Disappointed Worgen cannot be Monks

No, they just made it so someone in shit gear doeant just get 2 shotted by someone that's geared. The guy with the better gear will still win, but there's actually a fight. Basically you don't do the same damage vs a player you do vs mobs. Theoretically someone who is super skilled but not geared can kite can beat someone in better gear if they are total shit. But yeah, gear still matters a lot.

They also need to remove enemy scaling. It just ruins the entire world. I wish zones had level differences like Classic. Having high level stuff you can't kill in the same zone you're questing in is nice.

>remove LFR and random heroics so the item levels don't artificially bounce another tier of 15 between the outdoor content and the easy normal tier raiding and entry level mythic+
>stop calling it artifact power and just make it XP, artifact level is more important than normal level anyway, bake the artifact progression into a new talent tree
>stagger item level tiers between raids more and tune bosses to go up in tiers of difficulty throughout the raid
>diversify world quests and tie them to world events
>throws a whole bunch of new skills at players that only have very situational or "fun" gimmicky uses so that the pruneboys stop whining
>more stuff like essences
>more secondary stats like cooldown reduction and armor penetration
>make the expansion underground so you can never fly (you think you do, but you don't, legion flyfucks)
> remove a whole bunch of fast travel options (dozens of hearthstones, flightmaster whistle, etc)

>tfw I genuinely liked the Thunderforged / Warforged system from MoP
>it was just a tiny little item level upgrade, not a huge one but enough to make clearing shit you already had on farm more interesting
>if you got stuck during progression you still had a chance to get upgrades but it wasn't something you could rely on
>getting that BIS heroic warforged item felt really good, especially a weapon or trinket since there was straight up nothing better

I never imaginged it would turn into such a clusterfuck where an LFR item could titanforge like 30+ ilvls

Attached: ancient dry wojak alternate.jpg (482x427, 36K)

>bring back elite questing zones
>make the outdoor scale more fiercy against item level
>bring back small scale world pvp constant contest points like burning crusade

just a few more ideas

World Quests have to be completely random and not camouflaged Dailies

they need to limit it so that a piece of gear can only jump up a single tier at maximum, so warforge +5 or titanforge +10, and no higher

but how could they scale characters down? wouldn't twinks get fucked over?

i agree on this, they need to triple the pool size and then half the amount available at any one time

I made the decent comment. Legion was ok. Average. Playable. Not good, not bad. Decent is not the same as "good". I had as many problems with it as positive things. It was a small glimmer of hope after the utter shitshow of WoD Blizzard hadn't completely lost the plot. Unfortunately as BFA shows, that hope was very misguided. Suffice to say I won't be touching 9.0 at all (I'm no addict, I've spent periods of years not touching WoW, I skipped MoP and most of WoD entirely.). If this is the best they can do when a competitive is finally snapping at their heels, then they're finished.

Attached: WoWScrnShot_092016_101712.jpg (1440x900, 150K)

the fact you would even consider playing a worgen monk makes me want to kill you

just keep it at +5 max, thanks.

Okay so imagine I'm level 120, and you're level 60

> user squishes the game

you're now level 30, and I'm level 60. we can assume 120 will be squished to something below 60. Alternatively all characters are reset if they're above 10 by some lorewise chunk and the new expansion takes place 10~60 or something like that

Mate don't be afraid to ask that little amount, it's an MMO. I got the same quests after 5 days, tripling it would not be enough.

To be fair I can see how the theme of Worgen keeping the curse at bay and not going on complete rampage mode could play together with the monk's themes of restraint and balance of the body and mind.

I wouldn't mind having a werewolf creature going full on kung-fu on things either.

i see the same quests daily, because the map is fucking littered with them. less is more in this case, they just need to put less active in addition to adding way more

bfa is fine but id rather just play wotlk for free instead of paying a monthly fee

>Hot Take time
You don't belong here tranny

> LFD/LFR are different features from the dungeon finder
the fact that they are not baseline search for the realm's population is the problem, and could be solved with that limitation and merging on realms.

people complaining about dungeon finder are retards, the only content you can do with that is LFR and normal/heroic dungeons, endgame content is mythic dungeon and heroic/mythic raids, these content can't be done with dungeon finder

they urgently need to get rid of the idea of realms and just make the modern game on "channels" like maple story, where all your characters are on your account and you log into whatever channel you feel like

This will require restructuring of the game engine I think.

my feral druid is in shambles since the last time I played (WotLK). I lost Mangle, Savage Roar, Shred position requirement, Pounce, Ravage, Cower, Enrage, Demoralizing Roar, Bash, Faerie Fire, Healing Touch, Rejuvenation, Lifebloom, Tranquility, Wrath, Starfire, Insect Swarm, Hurricane, Nature's Grasp, Mark of the Wild, Thorns, Cyclone, proper travel forms, etc. Some are gone completely, some are combined into other abilities, some are locked behind other specs or talents, some are PvP only. But the overall feeling is that my character died, and it's not even the same character anymore.

Attached: 1540600658348.jpg (380x380, 50K)

QoL is a slippery slope you fucktard

>

Attached: Sf-talbain.gif (138x87, 50K)

remove flying mounts on azeroth
remove dungeon finder
crunch servers together to increase population
bring back pvp servers

remove transmog because its not nearly as exciting getting gear just for the look

bring back unique medals per battlebround
make it so the only way to queue for said bg is to go to the zone (populating those zones)

Most servers got like 20-80 people on now cuz of classic lol.

BFA's story actually wasn't terrible. What is terrible is just how diluted the game has become with how simplified and homogenized it's all become. It's not fun to play. There's no challenge or mystery. Everything is given to you. Raids are just loot treadmills with no sense of accomplishment, because your hard-earned RNG gear is just gonna be completely obsolete by new gear 50 ilvls higher in 2 months.

proof?

So, I've actually started playing retail again. It's actually not as bad as I remember, but I've not reached end-game content. I'm only 111 atm. Storylines that are relegated to zone-questing are perfect, just as good as they've ever been. It's clearly where storytelling talent tries to prove itself.

>War quest, and orange explanation marks
Absolute trash. Total trash.

I'm playing a ret pally, but I'll be switching to holy pally by the time I'm at 120. Ret pally seems to have so much cooler shit than Holy pally though, that I'm considering just running it instead.
Honestly, the complaints that people have are pretty much on point if they're looking for the same RPG experience you get in Classic.
>Weren't even subbed for WoD
Granted, I stopped playing during MoP. After seeing the preview that Garrosh gets fucked by Thrall, I didn't buy it.

There are a lot of good points to playing retail, even if Classic is a better game.

t. frost mage

Attached: 1567719397196.jpg (600x721, 56K)

>remove cross-realm zones, merge all low pop realms
>restore all pruned abilities
>revamp ALL zones and quests so there's a linear storyline no matter what your character is
>restore all dungeons and raids (especially vanilla) to their original state
>remove dungeon finder/raid finder
>remove mythic
>daily quests removed or replaced with repeatable quests
>level squish to 60 sounds interesting
I think that's all it takes to get me to enjoy it again
I'm fine with QoL collection features, transmogs, more inventory space, pet battles, and things like that, don't need to go full Classic there. heroics are fine too. I like flying mounts but they probably need to go, but it won't happen (as if anything else I listed will)

Attached: 1540086998399.jpg (1280x720, 83K)

I was on yesterday on some of my servers doing Cenus. I did Cenus on Grizzly Hills and I pulled up a lot data from my realm and connected one and when I clicked on my realm I got like 28 lol

you haven't done any content if you think stuff is just given, high M+ keys are downright cruel with blizzard purposely putting shit to block common shortcuts and mythic raiding is absolute hell from the first boss on

you don't feel accomplished because you don't dare to venture into actual hard parts of the game

Only reason your havin some fun is cuz your not at END Game lvling in wow , pvp and stuff can still be fun. It just lacks good progression and end game is insufferable.

>BFA's story actually wasn't terrible
Yes it is. Fuck Sylvanas and fuck old gods.

>1
Half of the problem is most people want to fuck that ugly dyke

>End game is insufferable
That's actually the opposite of what I've heard.

that's because this guy probably only did WQ and LFR and thought he played BFA when he didn't

I have over 3 months of WoW time left but I haven't logged on for a few days. I'm pretty bored of the game. All I've done all expac is M+ and mount/transmog farming. I've been maining a fury warrior and don't enjoy PVP because I'd rather play a ranged class so I can pussy out and run away if I get gangraped.
I've been doing the share your lockout thing for ICC and Ulduar and its pretty damn discouraging to spend hour and hours and not get something. If I got the Ulduar mount I might get a boost in interest but I can't be fucked to keep trying.

Attached: 1567218391027.jpg (1080x1350, 443K)

Its jusst mindless WQS farm gear bla bla you can even get raid quality gear in mythic + and benthic shit.

Plus tier gear is gay af or what the REWARD is for loot in raids are not even cool looking.

There is no point to try and raid with 0 cool gear.

>LFR and LFD bad
>Premade groupfinder good

>revamp ALL zones and quests so there's a linear storyline no matter what your character is
what
you want that?

>This guy
Are you talking about me, enjoying BFA, or the guy saying end-game is terrible?
>No cool gear in raids
Okay that's retarded, but I'll see whenever I reach that point.

>no cool gear in the raids
The tinkets in the new raids are so good that people are doing LFR just for them because they are literally that good.
I fucking love the coral trinket

>Stat stick
>Good
Fuck off the trinks from mop should be the golden standard for how trinks should work

>I've been doing the share your lockout thing for ICC and Ulduar and its pretty damn discouraging to spend hour and hours and not get something. If I got the Ulduar mount I might get a boost in interest but I can't be fucked to keep trying.
If you got the mount, you'd ride around Boralus for 10 minutes, add it to your favourites, and then never intentionally use it again. The accomplishment would fade and you'd be chasing your next fix. Maybe Time-Lost?

yes, I hate that the story makes no sense while leveling.
That reminds me, remove all phasing too, I just want a normal MMO world instead of a single player game where the world changes

the other guy

Oh, what do you disagree with? I was looking forward to doing mythic dungeons & raids. I thought it silly to shit all over retail if I've not done everything it has to offer.

Attached: 1567765272894.png (235x216, 97K)

> wants story
> wants main story progression tool removed
you can't make this shit up

>I'm playing a ret pally, but I'll be switching to holy pally by the time I'm at 120. Ret pally seems to have so much cooler shit than Holy pally though, that I'm considering just running it instead.
Ret paladin is ass and has fucking downtimes all the time no matter what.
Prot is kinda fun, feels like a middle of the pack tank but everyone wants warriors for M+ and brewmasters for raids anyway.
No comment on holy, I fucking loathe holy paladins.

and you'd be right, i'm disagreeing with the guy who says theres no endgame

Ugh get out, how can a human being exist with a perspective this absolutely terrible

Attached: 1555723559983.gif (300x228, 1.91M)

>Ret paladin is ass and has fucking downtimes all the time no matter what.
What do you dislike? I'm running while I'm levelling and like the basic ass, spam attacks until you can shit out the ultra hammer angel wing slam thing, or do the spinning hammers or aoe shittery. Also being able to self-heal myself instead of relying on conjuring bread & water.

Why do you loathe Holy?

Attached: 1566795934895.jpg (679x975, 294K)

phasing was never necessary to tell stories in vanilla and TBC. I just want normal MMO stories where I collect 10 bear asses, not capeshit where my character is god and changes the world and I can't see any players that aren't in the same phase as me

i cant tell if this is bait
so you want a single large scale story
BUT
the world can never change
im fucking stunned

there's a containment server just for you!

Is it worth getting into retail if I want to roleplay?

The ass part are the downtimes, you will get intervals of a couple of seconds where everything is off cooldown and you're just standing there derping around. It gets slightly less bad if you have Empyrean Power as a trait once and using the Lucid Dreams essence as a minor but it still happens and I just hate standing there doing nothing.
Holy paladin is actually good from what I've heard, I always disliked the playstyle and it didn't get better with those weird ass melee healer mechanics.

b-bring the person not the class-- err i mean spec! if everyone is mediocre and bland then nobody can get jealous

Damn that super sucks. I know feral got gutted, but I am having the most fun playing resto with feral affinity that any other time I've played druid. Jumping in and out of cat form while keeping hots on myself and dots and bleeds on the enemy is so fucking fun.

I don't want a single large scale story, I want the story of my character to make sense, i.e. naturally progressing from vanilla era to TBC era to WotLK era, instead of starting in Cata era except Sylvanas is warchief and then you inexplicably go back in time for TBC and WotLK, and quest NPCs treat you like a legendary hero for no reason, etc.

I think it's alright. I play on and off for a month or two before taking a break so it's tolerable. Not the best expac around but it's decent.

I was actually wondering this myself, but I rolled into a pop server for the chance of finding a raid guild no matter what.
He's in that containment server because he's fed up of retail.
Phasing is fucking annoying because I'm trying to make friends with people and finding out they're in different realms. Even in the general chat and BGs. It's really annoying. I have to bloody add their BattleID.
Ah, I've kinda experienced the downtimes. Yeah, I get it.
I really don't know enough about Holy Paladins, but it kinda seems like they're really limited for some reason. Or maybe I'm just a brainlet that isn't really getting it yet.
It's dumb that you can still go to tirisfal glades and speak to Sylvanas being berated by Garrosh for being a dumb bitch.

Attached: 1567859764624.jpg (1920x1410, 282K)

the only way it'll be salvageable at this point is if it ends like this

Attached: 393260 - 3D Animated Snellum Source_Filmmaker Sylvanas_Windrunner World_of_Warcraft.webm (1280x720, 2.22M)

bfa is decent but its another genre, wow players wanted to play mmorpg not an action single player

What you actually lost: Demoralizing Roar, Faerie Fire, Healing Touch, Lifebloom, Tranquility, Insect Swarm, Hurricane, Nature's Grasp, Mark of the Wild, Shred's positional requirement, I GUESS
What you have gained: Tiger Dash, Renewal, Wild Charge, Mass Entanglement, Typhoon, Incarnation: King of the Jungle, Brutal Slash, Primal Wrath, Feral Frenzy, Stampeding Roar, Thrash, Skull Bash
And you have access to: Condensed Life-Force, Blood of the Enemy, The Crucible of Flame, Essence of the Focusing Iris, Memory of Lucid Dreams, Worldvein Resonance

That's active abilities only, nothing passive

the absolute worst thing about BfA is how there is zero point to leveling a alt anymore. in Legion you could do the class campaign, class mount, artifact quests, etc and see a whole bunch of new shit, but in BfA there is no point ever touching a alt

I been there retrying. 1 week into 120 and you gonna have weird feels

How the fuck does that make him a mary sue?? Stop fucking saying buzzwords.

thats not quite what i got by
>revamp ALL zones and quests so there's a linear storyline no matter what your character is
but i get what you mean
the issue is that the games story has been MAJOR EVENT, TIMESKIP, rinse and repeat
without phasing however it would incredibly difficult (for blizz to do) any sort of major developments in the story because sylvanus has to be in undercity to tell the level 10s thats shes a whore, so they cant kill sylvanus
its a fundamental design flaw they overlooked until the last year with the only thing they could do is restart the games timeline again and relegating old content to caverns of time or just phasing everything
or they could phase each area to have a 'this is tbc time' period for lvl 60-70 players etc but any of that is work blizz is simply unwilling/unable to do

group based action game, you can't do anything solo
(if you've only been playing solo you haven't played bfa)

If I want action I play Devil May Cry or you know, a real action game and not a bastard failure.

ICC wasn't good though. The art style was shit and rushed. If you compare Naxx to ICC you actually see proper art direction. WotLK overall was shit and killed the game.

>Naxx rehash
>Vehicle memes
>Trial
>ICC going on forever

Wrath was always going to be the point they failed. They were just rushing content releases but still behind at that stage and culling huge amounts of the game to do so. It's now a staple of the games development cycle to set something up for ages then burn it all down in a single questing zone and a raid tier. Then spend the next expansion building off of pointless shit and a pointless raid to then burn through more of the better areas. Look at Argus and the new Naga zones.

Blizzard at this stage should just stop trying so hard mechagon was leaps and bounds better than most of the shit they've put out lately because there were no expectations for the area.

it wouldn't actually be possible to do, the more I think about it. What I really want is WoW 2

>What exactly makes BfA so bad (besides the trainwreck main storyline), and what would be ways to fix things in 9.0?

Blizzard's current design philosophy of needing to toss game systems every expansion and reinvent the wheel.

Legion was the first time they introduced class mechanics into an expansion's progression system, which is why it sucked when BfA came around and stripped players of abilities. BfA is repeating the same mistake to a lesser extent with Azerite gear.

BfA continues the insufferable trend of "BIG BAD MAIN STORY" where only a select few of the game's characters are of any relevance to the story, and the story is rooted in all of the zones which eventually dates the content. BC and WoTLK did world content right with the continuation of each zone having its own self-contained plot.

There is also the e-sports element of it, which no one cares about but Blizzard insists its a thing. MMORPGs are not MOBAs. This mindset bleeds into the way they design classes, making every class a different flavor of the same thing for the sake of "balance" when they should be pulling the classes apart and focusing on class fantasy and unique gameplay mechanics.

imagine dissing the expansion that held 12 milion subs throughout, phew

it was shit

i want blizz to liscense the wow engine to someone else and have them make a good game
even when retail is dogshit i can still jump around stormwind like a retard whilst talking in vc with my friends for ages

>get tired after character after a month
>want to try an alt
>remember that I have to do all the rep grind again
>all the timegated essence stuff again
>also azerite grind
Fuck

i honestly think in the long run the e-sport aspect is going to make classes more diversified and niche for what they bring to an M+ run

imagine being objectively wrong

>What exactly makes BfA so bad
My only complaint is Azerite Armor. Other than that I'm really enjoying the game.

I will say that Warfronts suck, so that was a dud of a feature, but it doesn't really negatively impact the game. I actually enjoy Island Expeditions to some extent.

none of these are actually as bad and by 8.3 there will be catch-up mechanics for everything you think is slow in 8.2 because it's current content and you want it handed to you for free eventhough later you'll make a post about how bfa sucks because everything is given for free

Imagine defending the rehash + slash and burn cycle that ruined all proceeding expansions.

>Classic is good because they don't give you everything for no work
>WHY DO I HAVE TO WORK TO GET THINGS IN BFA?! REEEEEEEE

imagine thinking your opinion blankets everyone but the one person talking to you

oops

It would be OK if you could just grind for that shit and get it over with, maybe with a slight boost if you've already done it once, but no, you will have to shitty daily quests for weeks until pala Blizzard deems it proper to give it to you for doing your daily chores.

>WHY DO I HAVE TO WORK TO GET THINGS IN BFA?! REEEEEEEE
Imagine paying monthly subscription for Payday2/Vermintide2 endless runs the same instances over and over

things you get in BFA isnt for working for them its for waiting long enough

also the things you get are cosmetics to grind more cosmetics

And that's how Classic ran out of content in one week.

nobody has ever run the same instance twice on classic
> pfffrrtfftftfft don't tell him

And that's a good thing, if you want to consume it like a locust, you should be able to, instead of having menial shit drip-fed to you at a glacial pace.

>things you get in BFA isnt for working for them its for waiting long enough
In Vanilla what you have is based on how long you're willing to grind.

In BfA what you have is based on how long you're willing to grind, but they only let you grind X amount per day (or week) for any one thing.
>also the things you get are cosmetics to grind more cosmetics
Cosmetics matter more than gear because you actually have a use for them years down the line. I only bother to get better gear so that I can get better cosmetics faster. Gear wasn't even a big priority for me in Vanilla, back then I was more interested in gold, because I could use it to get better/more cosmetics.

No, the Ulduar gnomecopter is my white whale and I'd use it exclusively.

This. I play Horde pretty much exclusively but i really wanted to level a dark iron fire mage, but to do that I'd then have to cap my alliance character, then start a months long rep grind to unlock it

if i could grind it out some other way id still be subbed and happily leveling that mage

>housing
not even a meme
if the game had a worthwhile downtime activity that isnt grinding the same thing over and over i think would be a great step in the right direction

>wow 2.0
the engine is ancient, the systems are convoluted
a fresh start with gameplay that takes us into 2020 would reinvigorate a game thats been dying since WoD

>but they only let you grind X amount per day (or week) for any one thing.
yeah and that sucks dick idiot

Azerite as a system is terrible, itemization is all over the place (so much so that ilvl means nothing anymore), story is dumb and contrived/criminally uninteresting, game centers most of its content around the story which makes it inherently dumb, Aszhara just attacks everyone with the tidestone even though it was in Dalaran (???), not enough fishing content, not enough profession content in general, mission table still in the game but now it's shitty, also it's dumb and bad.
Any more questions?

Based as fuck. I got mine the weekend before Legion dropped. I'm still using it, literally flying in it right now. Best mount in the fucking game.

Keep at it, user. It took me about two years of grinding on multiple characters to get it.

Attached: Mimirons-Head-Get.jpg (1600x900, 488K)

>yeah and that sucks dick idiot
I think there should be some content available for you to grind on as much as you like. I think most content should have a time based element so that you still have shit to do more than a week after a patch drops. If Blizzard did things the way you wanted then the game would be fucking empty, instead I'm in Mechagon right now and the zone is crawling with other players.

>Azerite as a system is terrible, itemization is all over the place (so much so that ilvl means nothing anymore),
Fuck this shit
>run some random ass mythic+
>ring drops at the end, think nothing of it
>motherfucking titanforged ilvl 455
>fuck yes, seems like a great upgrade
>my ilvl430 ring with a socket sims for more DPS
T-thanks

dont you get annoyed by the sound it makes? i hate that fucking sound

>itemization is all over the place (so much so that ilvl means nothing anymore)
Isn't that actually a good thing? One of the things that people like about Classic is that you can actually get pre-raid BiS before you're even close to 60.

The story is shitty though, I'll agree with that.

Naa, it's actually not as bad as some other mounts. That new flying mount from Mechagon is annoying as fuck. I think that there are still ways to mute annoying sounds though.

streamer and youtuber said bfa bad, so bfa bad

the game is already empty
you are seeing the illusion of content

If i say youre gonna get a nice 4 course meal then give you just one bite of it for 5 months you wont enjoy it

How does it not? He literally can not make a wrong decision because he has a special psychic superpower that makes him feel pain when he's wrong.

Not to mention other shit like him randomly succeeding in turning Calia into a Lightforged undead, or a hardened Horde veteran like Saurfang putting all his trust in him, his future being prophecied by Velen as being the High King who stops the Shadow, and being a 19-year-old High King in the first place just because his father was.

Classic does it differently though. Classic has items that are great due to them having great stats for certain roles, while in BfA it's just pure fucking luck if you roll a war/titanforge/socket/tertiary stat/whatever.

>the game is already empty
I'm saying that there would be no other players. They would have finished all of the content and stopped playing.
>you are seeing the illusion of content
I'm still enjoying it. Go back to your streamer meme game.

I'm having fun playing my shockadin, fuck the haters

I was subbed for WoD, that's why I haven't played since.

so I have never played WoW and I plan to try out Classic once I get the money
is it worth buying BfA or should I wait for the next xpac

>im having fun so its not bad
>defending retail
>implying classic is the streamer bait game
please dilate and kill yourself

Peak Spreadsheet. MMO's died once honchos started putting the majority of their energy trying to convince the playerbase that spreadsheets were proof they were doing good work (when its really so they can be lazy) rather than actually making quality content.

Don't buy BfA immediately. All you need right now is a $15 subscription, that gets you all of WoW up to BfA, and access to Classic.

If you get to 110 in retail WoW, buy BfA, assuming that we aren't nearing the pre-patch for the next expansion (that would be like next summer sometime).

yeah, i think you can just overwrite the sound file with a empty one if you know the path for it, its how i replaced the current shooting gun sound with the vanilla one.

>>nobody has ever run the same instance twice on classic
Where did I said it?

every time they release a new raid they completely erase the previous raid from existence because the LFR version of the new raid gives the equivalent gear of mythic raiding last tier.

I don't get why they don't introduce more overlap in raids

>Naxx rehash
I bet you never cleared Naxx 40 when it was relevant.

You get BFA for free if you level to 60 in classic wow and a boost.