please, for fucks sake, make something with meaning. The purpose of video games is to entertain first and foremost, but you can elevate them as an art form. Think of something new, not just another medieval magic shit, immature weebshit or war shit with slightly different mechanics. If you're gonna spend years of your life making a game, don't waste it pixel art and chiptune trash. Remember owlboy? the dev team spent 7+ years on that game, mainly on the tired pixel art, and no one gave a shit.
Don't be inspired by the garbage writing in JRPGs and b-list movie tier "stories", read some good literature or watch some good arthouse film. If you're gonna work on the music, explore different genres beyond "game music" or the genres you personally like. If you're gonna use someone else's music, make sure it's someone worth their salt. If you're gonna pour so many hours of your time and work into a game, why not pour in some of your heart and soul too? Develop your own aesthetic, and challenge your audience, not just yourself. Find something to say, honestly, from the heart. I know this sounds like a pretentious rant, but it comes from a place of genuine frustration. Video games could be an art form to be studied in schools and analyzed seriously. But for that to happen devs must take it seriously too, and enrich themselves with arts, culture and game design theory before even thinking about writing the first line of code in a large scale, years-long video game project. Please, if you want to make games, don't just believe in your programming skills. Hone your artistic abilities, and whether you succeed or not, make the intent count. Your game could spark a movement.
game devs please ignore OP and just give us huge anime tiddies
Kayden Jackson
kek, I don't know what I expected. Now I feel like typing that was a waste of time, but at least I laughed
Jaxson Garcia
>art form Go fuck yourself
Gavin Lopez
why?
Ian Martin
this is gay just make fun games
Blake Adams
then don't go crying about the shit quality games that keep dropping for their garbage uninspired writing and completely recycled mechanics
Blake Ward
>If you're gonna spend years of your life making a game, don't waste it pixel art and chiptune trash. Stopped reading there. Whatever your post was about, it doesn't matters anymore because you just demonstrated how wrong you are with one easy sentence.
c'mon. it's baby shit for preschoolers. vidya ain't art
Isaiah Howard
Is there anything worse than being able to immediately tell what games the developer was playing as he was making his? Talentless hacks, the indie community has astonishingly low creativity given the subject matter.
Because of shit people like you we have shitty cinematic games like TLOU or the new GOW. If i want to think deep i will continue reading books. In games i want to have fun and not watch 40 min of cutscene about the meaning of life.
Joshua Young
Just make a gacha game that’ll have whales spend thousands
Vidya is pretty limited in terms of a medium because high production costs are a significant issue for experimentation and the fact that specs and platforms improve and the market expectations change much faster than someone with a genuine artistic vision could possibly produce. Just look at fucking shenmue for example. Closest thing to art with decent gameplay is Deus Ex and that's almost entirely due to Sheldon Pacotti's writing.
Hudson Collins
Im not trying to make a vanity project you fucking faggot. The first thing in my mind is if its fun.
Ryan Torres
Big game dev from big game company here You got it boss, I'll make sure to put as much company allotted soul into my fair share
>he wants more recycled pixel art trash ok my post wasn't for plebs like you anyway if making money is your goal you shouldn't be wasting years of your life with something that is extremely likely to fail. You're more likely to win the lottery than become the next notch or toby fox that's the entire point of my post. No, video games aren't art, but they could be. The first movie ever recorded was just some guy's horse. yeah it's been incredibly disappointing so far, I remember being so naive thinking kickstarter would change everything. It just made shit worse. >shitty cinematic games definitely NOT because of people like me. That's what i was talking about when I said "b-list movie tier stories". Hell your game could have ZERO story for all I care, but if you make something meaningful out of the space and mechanics you could create serious art. Think outside the box man. I'm not asking for another heavy rain. >40 min of cutscene about the meaning of life. if it's done well it should take advantage of the medium instead of turning a game into a movie. That's wouldn't be good art, it would be shit, like a film spending 40 minutes showing some music >The first thing in my mind is if its fun as it should be. Are you retards this illiterate? it's literally the second sentence in my post. No wonder the gamedev scene is so trash, you guys can't fucking read my post is for people who have some passion and control over a game's direction, ie game directors and indie devs.
Luis Williams
Since OP is a massive faggot this is for all of you. How can I make a fps of a particular war while being different than all the other cod shit out there.
Luis Stewart
he really is a hack
Austin Phillips
Lol your post obviously doesnt show you care about fun. Go take your gay arthouse ideas somewhere else.
Hudson Perez
Go back to your suicide net facility, Fukushima.
Charles Nguyen
>dude just turn ur brain off fun xD >what ur asking for a little bit of extra effort what are you a fun hater fucking manchild.
Jace Butler
This is why you go to the Gaystore user
Jace King
>implying i won't do both
Chase Stewart
>or watch some good arthouse film. How can they watch something that doesn't exist?
Dylan Jones
Nah. I'd rather make games that reward players with useful skills. If I have to use pointless, recycled stories and addictive skinner box bullshit to do it, I will.
>Undertale sold millions partly because of that >"N-no one will give a shit"
Landon Gutierrez
Yeah, we need more science fiction games!
Tyler Turner
>But for that to happen devs must take it seriously too No, for that to happen pretentious art twats like yourself need to step back and stop expecting games to be films, paintings, book and musical performances all in one. You don't expect the same things from the soundtrack of a film as you do from a flat out album. Stop demanding games reach the pinnacle of all their parts before you take them seriously, when you already DON'T expect the same from film.
Jacob Sullivan
t. Toby Fox
Aiden Sullivan
dear game developers, im not a 12 year old lesbian girl contrary to belief, im a white man who wants to play as brown or white or an irish man or a woman so as long as it doesnt change the fucking gameplay so please give us that choice also maybe more 3rd person shooters thank you ok love you bye
Joshua Young
Games should be fun to play.
Cooper Hughes
For the love of god stop trying to convert gaming into other mediums christ. Cause of shitheads like you theres so much vapid shitty games that are pretentious as fuck cause they feel pressured to 'say something'
Grayson Hernandez
True true. Players ought to improve themselves as well. The player is an actor within the game, and most players fail to notice that.
Joshua Davis
tl;dr fucking based
Robert Jones
>the player is an actor I see you're a fan of kaizo hacks.
This reads like someone who was really really asshurt about that Sans Mii costume in smash. Also
>This could be analyzed and studied seriously in school
Fucking cringe. Games are supposed to be fun, first and foremost. They don't need to have some masterpiece story, that's not their strength. Their strength is allowing the player to interact with a new world, which Undertale does quite nicely. Kys.
The shittiest of games are the ones made by AAA and indie studios trying to be on totally opposite ends of the art spectrum (low and high budget). Good quality games are fun game. I will continue to bitch when we get more dogshit ps4 movie games instead that are trying to be 'cinematic' instead of fucking videogames. You don't write a book by doing an oil painting, stop trying to make movies in video games.
>If you're gonna work on the music, explore different genres beyond "game music" or the genres you personally like. >don't waste it pixel art and chiptune trash. >chiptune trash.
How about fuck off if you don't appreciate the medium? You're telling me to explore genres outside what I like but you can't even bother to do the same first.
OP is the equivalent of a Hollywood director telling french indie films to use more CGI because he doesn't like them. That's who you are right now.
>>he wants more recycled pixel art trash >ok my post wasn't for plebs like you anyway Pixel art has been and can be it's own legitimate art form, pull your head out of your ass and stop only looking at bad western examples. And before you say some dumb shit about it being 'lazy' or 'hurr it's old tech use a better resolution', you're basically invalidating anyone that still does traditional mediums for their artworks since 'you can just do it digitally' etc. Using well done pixel art and putting soul into it is the equivalent of using old, black and white physical tape reels to shoot an indie film. It is a valid artistic and stylistic choice.
at least undertale was moderately creative with the gameplay and the way it told the story, even if it wasn't a great story. Owlboy was just a chore to play >get inspired by arthouse film and literature >yeah scifi! >step back and stop expecting games to be films, paintings, book and musical performances all in one. I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for more fucking creativity, whether it's in a limited scope or not, i never said you have to sculpt amazing character designs and glorious music and a film all in one, just something more creative and artistically rich, the fact that you think that's what I'm asking for is part of the problem, you retards won't think of anything but the existing conventional art, most independent game devs seem to have no intent to take risks and attempt new ways to express themselves, they just recycle the same trash, almost exactly the same gameplay with some gimmick, same way of conveying the message, even the same challenges the motor skills, same music style, same atmosphere, just generic trash all around. yes they should, as per the second sentence of my post. >vapid shitty games that are pretentious as fuck cause they feel pressured to 'say something' if they made by more cultured people they wouldn't be pretentious trash, and they'd be sensible to the medium, keeping in mind the most important vehicles: engagement, interactivity, fun. tldr; go outside more and read more before making game, stop making generic games >that Sans Mii costume in smash. imagine being this obessed. Not everyone cares about smash you autistic memetard. >Games are supposed to be fun, first and foremost for the third time, this is LITERALLY the second sentence of my post. >Their strength is allowing the player to interact with a new world, which Undertale does quite nicely how many indie games like undertale are out there?
Daniel Perez
ah the based gav
Anthony Flores
OP sucks dicks and should be disregarded. The core of his messages is "stop being games" and "do something new already" when really, most basic gameplay concepts have been explored all throughout the medium. Seriously, name me ONE thing that would actually be a gameplay innovation in current year that isn't taking two genres and mixing them.
Caleb Parker
This thread pretty much made me realize why only few indies succeed. Extremely close minded, they think they are sure about what the audience wants or need.
Jose Lopez
What are your favorite innovative games, OP?
Robert Nelson
>if they made by more cultured people Absolutely kill yourself. Cultured people my fucking ass. Im not gonna fucking watch some gay ass fucking foreign film so i can be 'more cultured' Also a reminder that one of the most innovative and FUN games that changed the industry forever was made by a bunch of nerdy dude bros instead of a big brain redditor you believe to be.
the state of neo/v/'s reading comprehension. I'm asking for more artistic sensibility that takes advantage of games instead of making them into a bad movies with "press x to win" >How about fuck off if you don't appreciate the medium? >don't like it? don't play it! the plebbitor's default argument when faced with any kind of criticism >You're telling me to explore genres outside what I like but you can't even bother to do the same first. I listen to and enjoy chiptune. When all there is to indie game music is generic chiptune it gets old. Didn't mean to get you triggered over a particular music genre. >OP is the equivalent of a Hollywood director telling french indie films to use more CGI because he doesn't like them. That's who you are right now. you are a massive retard. I'm asking for more artistic sensibility, i'm asking for the game equivalent of a french indie film because all we have is the equivalent to hollywood CGI capeshit, even in the indie scene yeah this is the last time i try to have a discussion with these stubborn idiots
>artistic sensibility Might as well give yourself a colonoscopy with your head that far up your ass
Nicholas Davis
I didnt knew you work at the gaystore as well user
Jaxon Long
>Im not gonna fucking watch some gay ass fucking foreign film so i can be 'more cultured' then go ahead and suspend your disbelief to more hollywood capeshit and braindead gameplay. >Also a reminder that one of the most innovative and FUN games that changed the industry forever was made by a bunch of nerdy dude bros yeah and that's ok, we can enjoy fun pop music, fun short stories and fun movies that aren't meant to challenge you much. The problem is that currently that's are there is to it in games, which is wasted potential. For a board that cries so much about snowflakes you retards get triggered really fast when someone has more to say than reaction pics and memespeak
Kayden Brooks
The story is shit. The gameplay's too droning compared to the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi series as well.
Ryder Wilson
>just something more creative and artistically rich Who are you to judge other people's works as not creative? Games are just as creative as other mediums, they just get more easy exposure when you look over them in general. It's a lot easier to see all the shitty, mediocre games than it is to look up every dogshit, utter garbage fucking book that's ever been written. You're unfairly targeting games because you have an innate prejudice against them, now go open your 1970's vintage and watch more 'arthouse' slop you fucking deadass.
Or play some fucking games built entirely around being a creative expression. A painting draws it's ability to be 'art' from how it expresses an image. It's artistic merit is judged on it's ability to invoke emotions or ideas visually. You do not judge a painting on the sounds it makes when I break it over your head. A game draws it's ability to be 'art' from how it allows the audience (or specifically the player, and there's a REASON games have 'players' and not 'audiences' like film, stage plays etc.) to interact and explore a concept or world presented to them. It's artistic merit is judged on it's ability to integrate the player with the experience and allow them to explore as much or as little of the piece as they wish. You cannot view half a painting and say you've really seen it, but you can play half a game and still finish it. You do not judge a game by how the pixels look when I shove your head intro your fucking monitor.
>Extremely close minded Says the one with a head so tightly sealed shut with his "superior art" that he can't understand what constitutes art within a game
>I don't like medium, pointing this out makes me reddit No-one respects the opinion of a movie critic that decides to shit on books. >i'm asking for the game equivalent of a french indie film Then open your eyes because they exist. Pic related, plus if you want more 'game' in it, "Return of the Obra Dinn".
Since you seem to be a movie guy, what good indie movies would you recommend to us?
Kayden Nelson
her boobs should be falling to the side, not parallel with her torso
Luke Sanders
As much as I agree with you on certain points, I feel like you are asking way too much from indie devs that most of the time work alone and you are expecting them to deliver projects with a huge team. Even UT had a shitty/inconsistent visuals and a extremely simple battle system with bo depth to it.
Hunter Williams
Answer, OP. Or, are you some shitass who can't give any pointers to us poor unfortunate souls?
Jaxson Clark
You obviously dont fit the medium of games cause all you do is ramble on about how its like other mediums because it doesnt ask if i like immigrants are some retarded shit. Comparing doom to pop music is proof you should be fucking gassed. Also i dont watch capeshit. I watch fun movies that doesnt try to preach at me while still being different.
Yeah, Doom is more like a heavy metal album. His point still stands, though.
Nolan Hernandez
>yeah this is the last time i try to have a discussion with these stubborn idiots Do us all a favor and deepthroat a double barrel, nigger.
Gavin Bell
>bro games need to be serious business......they need to be analyzed in schools as an art form.......dude........just like.......be different.....say something....lol....... There is literally nothing wrong with taking inspiration from things and being "generic" as long as you're building upon the strengths of what you're taking inspiration from instead of just making poor imitations of old games. Likewise there is literally nothing wrong with pixelshit and chiptune as long as you're using it to make a fun aesthetically pleasing game and not gay pretentious "muh meaning" shit that you apparently love so much.
>Yeah, Doom is more like a heavy metal album. His point still stands, though. Heavy metal can't be art? Why not? For what reason? Is it only art if it fills your specific range of intellectual wankery that makes you feel smart?
Kevin Myers
If you are a game dev, remember that you should get inspiration from different works from different mediums. Only playing games definitely won't help you creatively.
Ryan Foster
Yeah, play Endcycle! We're improving the dated Battle Network formula to fit the modern gaming landscape!
How does doom not have artisitc sensibility you twat?
Jordan Roberts
when will you improve the graphics style though
Adam Cruz
>It's just battle network with gimmicks and ugly designs Bravo
Jayden Flores
Go play Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri. Now. Forgotten game by the same people who made Thief and System Shock. Much more innovative than both.
Bentley Jackson
Read a fucking book, loser.
Lucas Harris
honestly I'd be fine with something simple if it showed some maturity. I enjoyed undertale despite it being far from perfect. Maybe I'm asking too much cause I'm frustrated, but I'd like to see at least some progress good entry level critically acclaimed films: most kubrick films (full metal jacket, clockwork orange, barry lyndon) Satoshi Kon films (millenium actress, perfect blue) City of God Citizen Kane Trainspotting Raise the Red Lantern Yi Yi by Edward Yang these should be good starting points, let me know if you want more, and if you're looking for anything in particular
Colton Jones
If it doesnt have pseudo intellectualism OP wont buy it, sorry dude.
>please, for fucks sake, make something with meaning NO! FUKK RUU! WE WILL MAKE PRODUCT RUU WILL BUY AND RUU WILL BUY NEXT! RUU CANT STOP BUYING AND WE WILL KEEP MAKING MONEY!!
You're not wrong but Books lack the ability to display a breadth of information in the short amount of time with as much clarity as a visual medium. If youre making something for books youre kind of asking for a select amount of people to actually invest time into it.
>says doom is pop music tier >posts the pop music of 'art' films list also >undertale >maturity >the game written by a homestuck writer full of bone puns, dog memes, the whole temmie village, I could go on >mature >just because at the end it chides you for not being purely pacifist 4th wall meta narrative isn't maturity. No go play an actual arthouse game and get a clue.
Games are the artistic evolution of the choose your own adventure books, except you don't have to tell someone to "TURN TO PAGE 81".
Brayden Roberts
Nice. What books, then?
Levi Collins
Nice reddit posts
Brayden Watson
No they convey more information in a shorter amount of time with MORE clarity than a visual medium. This is why they are and will ever be the premiere medium. You and your ilk are just retarded and 'investing time' into something that isn't rooty tooty point and shooty is too much of an ask - yet you would ask some dev to go out of his way to simplify advanced ideas such that you could enjoy them in your base, low effort, high stimulation medium. Fuck that. You want the depth, learn to swim. If you want to enjoy the sun then keep floating around on the surface. Your call. Don't ask people to dredge something up onto the shore so you can poke it with a stick as it dies for your amusement.
Read. A. Book.
Oliver Flores
OP still hasnt responded lel. You better hurry and look up some examples on google before the thread closes user!
Aaron Torres
>you and your ilk I was gonna side with you but you made me cringe hard
Nathaniel Martin
You replied to me like I was OP but I am a completely different person. Also yes, many people assume what their audience wants or needs here. That's a mistake.
Adrian Richardson
>You obviously dont fit the medium of games cause all you do is ramble on about how its like other mediums because it doesnt ask if i like immigrants not wasting my time with a /pol/tard. if you think that's what all good and critically acclaimed art is you're a massive brainlet. The medium of games could become something more >Comparing doom to pop music is proof you should be fucking gassed. you're probably the kind of retard who thinks pop music is just cardi b. I never mentioned doom though. no one siad metal can't be art. It's a genre of popular music. That doesn't mean we can't have jazz for example. There should be more variety. If all there was to music was metal you'd be sick of it. i never mentioned doom, and it's hard to pinpoint the extent of its artistic merits cause it was in a very primitive era of gaming, for its time it's impressive an creative >>bro games need to be serious business......they need to be analyzed in schools as an art form never said they all NEED to be like that, but that there is a notable and frustrating absence of games like that, you illiterate memelord. You retards keep implying I want conventional gaming to disappear forever not what i'm talking about in my OP, but I'm really looking forward to it, I'm a big fan of BN's gameplay those were off the top of my head, sorry. maybe raise the red lantern isn't very entry level, but I think yi yi is. I found it comfy, something I could've enjoyed even as a beginner it's good for entry-level I am not against pop music. I also never said doom is pop music. As I specified, undertale is far from perfect, the writing is tumblrina teenager tier, but it has the creativity I expect from indie devs. It's a step in the right direction. The games in the pic of that post I never bothered to replied to are about as mature as undertale, not better. Some of them are worse.
Aiden Evans
That's fair. At least you were with me until then.
Josiah King
I am not even him but could you please talk properly?
Hudson Perry
Fuck art, fuck artists, and fuck people who want video games to be art. Art means nothing to me. I don't play video games for art. I play them for entertainment >b-but read my second sentence Read the entire rest of your post, you nigger. You don't give a shit about fun, you want to change video games in to something they aren't to satisfy your own desires. How about you fuck off and let people who enjoy video games keep enjoying video games?
Nicholas Moore
Nah. Game Devs can and should make whatever games they want to make. Whether it's truly pixelshit, or some indie masturbation simulator, devs can and should do what they want. The storytellers will make their games if they want to, but you can't force it.
That said, for a game with a meaningful narrative or artsy gameplay in some way to work, I think devs need to understand games on a core level. I think you have to know exactly how to program the game to get the exact feeling that you want, and the best way to do that, far as I can tell, is to get as much experience as you can. So start small, start with hacking games, or making fan works if you want, etc.
But learn how to make good games first, then you can go for the artsy bullshit.
Angel Taylor
What if the purpose of my game is to pay tribute to my favourite schlock or have the gameplay be based on the rule of cool? Not everything needs to have a deep meaning, sometimes you just want to load up a shootan to kill some dudes or an RTS to bash massive armies against each other.
for entry level books I'd start with collections of short stories, Garcia Marquez and Ambrose Bierce have some great ones OP here, books are great but I still prefer films for a combination of fun and discovering stuff. But this debate about books vs film should be a thread of its own, don't think it's as simple as you put it
Cooper King
Took the bait. I understand what your talking about but you just want to have some overtly thought provoking psychological experience that fits your exact criteria. You dont fit the medium, theres more of that in movies and theres nothing to change that, its just easier to do that shit there. I was obviously referencing doom from my past post. How can you judge a media of artistic merit when you can barly comprehend the medoum your in.
Who is cardi b
Dylan Smith
>NOOOOO you can't challenge my peabrain I want fun and fun only!!!
>I never mentioned doom Wrong? Ahem >Also a reminder that one of the most innovative and FUN games that changed the industry forever was made by a bunch of nerdy dude bros yeah and that's ok, we can enjoy fun pop music
The game he was talking about, made by nerdy dude bros in his image, was DOOM. And then you said "Yeah that's okay, we can enjoy that (doom)" , calling it pop music.
>some of the games in that pic are worse and less mature than fucking undertale Stop lying as if you ever played them. I'm closing this thread, your bait has wasted enough of my day.
Chase Williams
This flowery writing style is so unnecessary user... if it's not enhancing or clarifying your point, don't use the metaphor/gimmick.
Bentley Williams
Why do you even give a shit about "challenging" people's brains? What if I just want to loot and shoot?
Austin Perry
I wanted to tell a story with real meaning about the future of humanity in a small-scale space opera, but sadly i had to step away from the project after having to rescind all writing to a college undergrad who made it into a romance harem.
Connor Murphy
Imagine not liking fun
Kevin Cooper
I'm not a writer user.
Colton Lee
Art is garbage pretentious garbage
Jaxon Parker
Based
Tyler Cox
So?
William Roberts
Stop arguing about this stupid shit and lets all as a community laugh at OP
Gabriel Stewart
>ugh I need more "meaning" and "innovation" for the sake of change, more games need to make me feel like a big boy and not some loser playing a video game to simply game fun
Fuck you and your quest for "true art," faggot. I'm gonna make a co-op kung fu cliche brawler with nothing but gags in place of a story and there's nothing you can do to stop me
William Mitchell
I just make whatever makes me happy. If that happens to make other people happy too, then that's good enough for me. I can understand that art is a higher pursuit and there are people who have these grand visions about their work and want to bring about great change with them, but it's not what I want to do. It's not that I'm not interested in making my work quality for what it is, but I don't want to make art.
My only requirement these days is to make sure you ignore the LBGT, they have ruined so much it's frankly impressive. So to make sure everyone can get back to a normalized reality they must take a backseat and be ignored for a few years. Thanks devs
agreed >Not everything needs to have a deep meaning, sometimes you just want to load up a shootan to kill some dudes or an RTS to bash massive armies against each other. agreed. But right now, everything is the latter and the "deep meaning" games are almost nonexistent. >you just want to have some overtly thought provoking psychological experience that fits your exact criteria my criteria isn't that specific. Just take advantage of the medium to make something creative and meaningful for once there exists some masterfully crafted pop music. I didn't mean that as an insult, I meant that it's good that doom exists, but it shouldn't be the only kind of game that exists, it was groundbreaking but that was about 25 years ago, and we haven't had anything artistically groundbreaking in the current indie scene, all other mediums have art movements but this one seems to be in a halt >Stop lying as if you ever played them. not all of them, but lots. samefag
Jacob Nelson
>"deep meaning" games are almost nonexistent. Good. Imagine being such a worthless human being that you need to try to find deep meaning in a fucking video game.
William Howard
OK then, I understand. I wish more people had these grand visions, but it's not something that can be forced. Hope you continue enjoying your gamedev journey user Imagine being such a worthless human being that you disapprove of others seeing artistic potential in a new medium
Juan Clark
>NOOO MOM I'M CONSUMING AN ART FORM I'M NOT WASTING MY LIFE I'M NOT I'M NOT I'M NOOOOT This is what you sound like. Fuck you. By virtue of creating something, anything, devs are already pouring something of themselves into their product. It doesn't have to appeal to you, it doesn't have to mean something to you, it doesn't have to be something you can show your hipster friends without them laughing at you behind your back.
Reminder that people like OP, that can't appreciate open-ended, exploitative experiences like games are the tiniest of brainlets who have to cower behind 'arthouse' film to feel like they are smart.
Films, theatrical performances, music and books are all linear experiences. They have an exact start point, an exact end point and everything inbetween is experienced in the same order by the audience/listener/reader. When you give the person interacting with the medium influence over the path of the story, it becomes a game and the person a player in the game. I don't mean video game either, I mean 'GAME', as even a tabletop campaign is a game with player input. They are not linear like other mediums.
OP and people like him are idiots with low self agency, that need their entertainment to hold their hand through the 'correct' path of the story because they're incapable of deciding for themselves what to do. He's literally too dumb to play games. You can see this from the fact he calls undertale mature, a game which unironically tells you to to play it one way to get the 'right' end.
Lucas Thomas
What makes you think you have the opinion that something isnt creative or meaningful?
Hunter Clark
absolutely based
Mason Rogers
I disprove of soulless artfags on ruining everything they touch on their never ending quest for "true art", yes.
Protip: you'll never find it, it doesn't exist. It's futile thing you can waste your entire life on and die unsatisfied if you continue pursuing
Jonathan Torres
reminder that consuming art is STILL wasting your life. All consumptive hobbies are wasteful. Consumptive
Ethan Adams
hey op all your suggestions are just vague buzzwords that have no meaning, you're wasting your time unless you actually have a good idea for a game
Deep meaning in 2019 would be some variant of black men good, white men bad, gay good, straight bad.
If they can make some "deep meaning" without the obvious propaganda like above then sure, but something tells me devs today don't have it in them to break that mold.
>This is what you sound like and you sound like >Films, theatrical performances, music and books are all linear experiences. They have an exact start point, an exact end point and everything inbetween is experienced in the same order by the audience/listener/reader. When you give the person interacting with the medium influence over the path of the story, it becomes a game and the person a player in the game. you just described the potential in video games, the same one I and Chris Crawford sees, not the actual state of video games in 2019. When are you gonna stop being a seething samefag and actually think about what I'm truly asking for? Read what I actually posted, not your kneejerk reaction
Julian Ross
as someone that is pretty much tired of the countless arcade like fast food games on steam which are very similar one to another and desires for more games with effort into creativity/narrative department, just something more unique, as much as I hate how people tell that devs should make games they want to and that reasonate to them only play the hypocrite aftewards for jealousy of not being creative enough as them or whatever reason and think they have any right to judge and invalidate it as part of the medium like they are entitled to it, I don't like your post either OP. Because you fail gor the same mistake by judging games that are very simple as "worthless" and assuming that as there are many devs that genuinely have an interest to use games as way to tell a story they want to tell, there aren't people that aim for something completely different too which is wrong.
Evan Wood
>waaaah mommy this is too much like a movie I'm getting triggered fuck off. also: you are the brainlet for thinking something can't be art and non linear at the same time
Jordan Perry
You sir, are a legend
Chase Howard
fucking based
Henry Ward
I thought shit like that died with postmodernism. Fucking hell.
It can be Stop judging non-linear art by looking at linear art. >not the actual state of video games in 2019. Wrong and retardpilled. Crawford is a hack who didn't manage shit.
Landon Baker
fuck off i didnt read them all and I couldnt be bothered to waste my time looking for his latest post that he would be checking the replies to
Brandon Clark
>chris crawford Christ
Juan Ramirez
Focus on an aspect or story that hasn't been done before. Make the gameplay fun and well executed. Don't fuck up the graphics and sound. Keeping your scope narrow helps reduce complexity and development costs. If you want to spend a decade making a masterpiece, then by all means go for it, but have a solid plan before you start. If you want to crunch something out within a year or two, heed my advice well.
Leo Sanders
what kind of retarded question is that lmao it exists in all other mediums, and will exist in games when artists who aren't trannies get into gamedev. And you'll be an angry boomer lamenting each creative game that comes out and crying about the good ol days agreed >vague buzzwords with no meaning I don't expect a disgusting nonce to understand my simple suggestions >worthless memespeak doesn't prove me wrong >Crawford is a hack who didn't manage shit. sadly correct, but back when he had some sanity in him he saw the potential, and had ideas interesting enough to be discussed in gamedev circles today. You could be a hack like him and still see the potential see above
Bentley Edwards
The purpose of video games first and foremost is to make money, if they didn't make money 99.999% of them would never be made at all.
Michael Perez
Now your starting to genuinely piss me off
Nicholas Carter
True video games died with arcades. Gacha seems it would be like the next closest thing except it's more like slots than games.
And art is anything that elicits am emotional reaction in the consumer.
Gavin Martinez
I guess I might've been too dismissive in my post, but I'm glad other anons share my sentiment obviously, but the main purpose to the consumer is fun
Aiden Williams
Imagine having an entire thread telling you you're retarded only to still not understand where you went wrong.
Brody Gray
To this end they will add things to the games they know players don't like in order to get mass advertising via outrage. They will add bad things in order to sell you the cures. They will offer bad endings to games to ensure you buy the sequel (leave you unsatisfied) etc etc
Robert Nguyen
>an entire thread it's just you being a samefag, you think I haven't noticed? Yea Forums x tells you when a new IP posts, and almost every criticism i've had for the past hour has been from an old IP. Keep being an assblasted faggot
Sebastian Davis
This whole thread is just ludists versus narrativists YET AGAIN. Fuck off
Carson Long
Im trying to find a way to honor korean war veterans while trying to something different. I want it to be like the first call of duty where you feel like a random soldier but thinking of unique game mechanics to build over that is a bit difficult.
Ayden Butler
>to ensure you buy the sequel >game builds itself up to a sequel with a cliffhanger ending >game flops too hard and a sequel is never made This was my favorite part of Beyond Two Souls.
Hudson Hughes
so whats your game idea?
Christian Walker
Beyond Three Souls?
Carter Jones
That's still 64 unique IPs, chief. They all think you're a retard.
Leo Foster
First maybe consider what about the experience you find interesting/unique? What is so different about it? Maybe the mechanics themselves don't need to be revolutionary, but how you apply them?
Juan Powell
>it exists in all other mediums It doesn't. What exists in other mediums is artfags circlejerking over what is and is not art. That's something video games can do without.
Art is a myth, a lie. It doesn't exist. Like a junkie you endlessly search it out, seeking that next high, never satisfied and always wanting more. At least drugs are real and not a delusion you inflict on yourself like "art".
Josiah Hughes
>64 unique IPs, chief many of which were neutral, memes, replying to your retarded posts or sharing my sentiment. You've been trying to shape the narrative of the thread like an autist and failed miserably
Adrian Wood
>that's still 64 unique IPs chef >not "that's still 64 unique IPs gamer"
Ryan Morris
>Art is a myth, a lie. It doesn't exist seriously underage tier statement
Josiah Powell
>sharing my sentiment Imagine this delusion.
Leo Hall
5 star post
Ian Fisher
Possibly. A mechanic ive been dabbling with is what you do in battlefield 2 modern combat. If you played it you'd know what im talking about
Nope, 35 years old. Been around long enough to know a thing or two. Ever wonder why artfags are all college kids? Because most of them grow up and grow out of the self-delusion. You'll grow up one day too, hopefully you wont have too many regrets about the things you've poisoned in the mean time.
Nolan Clark
everything would be so much simpler if people, including OP, understood that in the end of the day people have ideas and projects and they can pick whatever the medium they want to or find most interesting regardless if you think it's the most suitable for it or not. And also shouldn't shame people that have widly different tastes for games - there are people that enjoys sony AAA titles, who fucking cares.
Alexander Butler
>there are people that enjoy sony AAA titles There are? I thought all of those were jokesters!
Jose Edwards
>35 years old boomer >art doesn't exist now it's just sad >Ever wonder why artfags are all college kids? they're not. some of the greatest artists had their magnum opus when they were old. You could be creating your magnum opus. But here you are, 35 years old, shitposting about how art isn't real on the video game board
Anthony Hughes
fuck off games are supposed to be fun
Owen Ramirez
>The purpose of video games is to entertain first and foremost, but you can elevate them as an art form
Adam Sanders
The part that makes OP such a retard is that he phrases the OP in a way as if devs owe it to the medium to create some kind of artistic masterpiece, that they are duty bound to create art rather than just shit they want to create, because he feels the medium isn't good enough. Lots of devs just want to create a game they would want to play themselves. Some want to challenge themselves. Some just want dosh. None of these things are wrong. If they happen to create something meaningful in the process, organically, then that's fantastic. But then you have this clown going >Your game could spark a movement. Imagine being like this.
Dominic Gutierrez
user, seriously. The world doesn't give a shit about art no matter how many lies you tell yourself. Do you have any idea how many dumbass college kids get art degrees and then a decade later got back and get another degree that's worth more than the paper it's printed on? You have you head so far up your ass that you can't see it, but it will happen to you too. One day you'll wake up and realize no one gives a single fuck about art except circlejerking artfags, and it's impossible to make any money since the only audience is other poor artfags.Every now ant then an artfag truly does accomplish something monumental, but that's not going to be you, it wont be people making "artsy" video games, and it wont be 99.9% of artists. Don't pretend that you or anyone you know will ever be a "great artist".
Call me a boomer, I don't give a fuck. You're a delusional underage faggot. I'd love to continue calling you a faggot all night but I've got to go to bed so I can get up early and mow the lawn. Have a good one, OP.
Nathan Walker
>Your game could spark a movement Fucking hell how did i miss this. Holy kek this is the most retarded line in this thread
Jacob Jones
I really like you OP, Godspeed
Blake Sanders
Absolutely based. Good night old mam
Luis Butler
>he phrases the OP in a way as if devs owe it to the medium to create some kind of artistic masterpiece I'm asking, begging even. Not ordering. >None of these things are wrong as I've explained to you many times, no they're not, but they don't have to be the only things present either >>Your game could spark a movement. yes, an art movement, like cubism or taiwanese new wave, what's wrong with that? I hope you retards didn't interpret that as political movement, at this point nothing from Yea Forums surprises me
Liam Barnes
Games are conglomerate of art and there's many ways of approaching them.
But the main aspect as it is a conglomerate, should remain for its core part the interactivity, wich is called gameplay.
Andrew Wilson
man* fuck i need to sleep too
Camden Long
>Do you have any idea how many dumbass college kids get art degrees and then a decade later got back and get another degree that's worth more than the paper it's printed on? You have you head so far up your ass that you can't see it, but it will happen to you too It won't, cause I'm a software dev, studied Computer Science. The fact that you think only college kids can appreciate art shows how far your head is up your ass and how shallow of a loser you must be
Hudson Jones
Thats not how games work lel. 'Art movement'. Thats even more gay than a political movement
Chase Garcia
"Art" is faggoty memespeak for faggoty meme people. Be the change you want to see or shut the fuck up, you are literally worse than ideas guys because at least they have ideas. I'll be over here enjoying my dumb fun while you whine about nobody giving a fuck about your fart sniffing.
Ew, no one wants games made by westerners trying to give it "meaning", your too dumb for that.
Jonathan Hall
>Thats not how games work lel. they could. That's what I'm asking for in this thread. >hey we could use the camera to film stories instead of just document stuff and take portraits >that's not how photography/recording works, lel
Tyler Sullivan
samefag strikes again
Blake Jenkins
Photography and videography are different things. You asking for a different medium, something ive been telling you this past fucking thread
Wyatt Ortiz
I bet you think YIIK was a masterpiece.
Isaiah Taylor
This sounds like someone who got mad that their indie im2deep4u RPG didn't sell well.
Nathan Morgan
>yes, an art movement This is the gayest shit I've read in a while, gayer than anons wanting to get fucked by men.
What bothers me the most, as someone mainly into narrative driven games, is this talk of "true art". What does that even mean and what makes you think that you have the power to define what can be considered as such?
Ethan Bell
Your syntax is disgusting.
Aiden Fisher
nah hes right
Asher Evans
there's nothing special about the video game medium that makes it impossible for an art movement to spark in it, except that it's dominated by retards like you. Video games aren't board games, they offer enough of an empty canvas to make a new form art out of. In fact with VR there are already developments in art installations that go beyond anything that could be done in a physical realm and allow people to use space and interactivity as a form of expression like never before, it's a good start
Luke Stewart
>I'm asking, begging even. Wanting this at all just so your friends and colleagues stop laughing at you for trying to pass off school presentations and papers about the vidya as serious business is stupid and you should feel stupid for suggesting it.
Juan Adams
When there's more to them than bing bing wahoo and shooting More projecting. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your embarrassing life?
Isaac Gomez
Nevermind OP. What games are you working on or would like to work on if you had the time, resources, and skills to do so?
>when theres more to them than bing bing wahoo and shooting Do you play games?
Colton Carter
read this in tony soprano's voice, now I'm scared
Thomas Clark
>Video games could be an art form to be studied in schools and analyzed seriously Not in the way you think Every person like you thinks video games are Movies++ where a "good video game" means something that has a good story and good artwork Video games are a fusion of games and traditional narrative media, but they'll never be as good at telling stories as tradtional media so analyizing them like you would a movie or a book is for brainlets
Sebastian Ross
comfy exploration/platform/puzzle hybrid where you're a child spirited away to a magical land where... something bad happened and everything is now deserted or destroyed
Eli Rivera
Make a gameplay concept first, then work from there. Don't start with a setting because that inherently limits your options and creativity. Just look at Spaltoon for example, the world revolves around the game play and it shows.
>When there's more to them than bing bing wahoo and shooting Guess what faggot? Developers just want to make fun games while taking inspiration from games they think are fun and it will be that way until the end of time, nobody gives a fuck about your arbitrary level of meaningfulness. Make your own game if you really think more devs need to start making muh groundbreaking meaningful artistic masterpieces because apparently you're just full of ideas.
Zone of the enders and deus ex is art and theres nothing your faggy ass can say to change that fact
Eli Diaz
>and it will be that way until the end of time that's not true. Good creators, regardless of medium take experiences from life and other mediums and bring it back to their own.
Jose Cook
>Every person like you thinks video games are Movies++ where a "good video game" means something that has a good story and good artwork You're assuming a lot of shit about me which isn't true. that's not me, I turned off the computer and checked the thread from my phone just now, going to sleep so dont expect any replies from OP You know what, I will
Ryder Wood
>using old, black and white physical tape reels to shoot an indie film CRINGE
Owen Davis
You will? Nice, update us about it user. Now this god awful thread can finally be closed
Joshua Ortiz
LMAO I'm not going to cater to some turbo autist who's going to pirate my game anyway
Charles Smith
>it took him this long to come to the conclusion that he should be the change he wants to see Grade A retard. Remember to shill your game here so we can laugh about it later.
Oliver Ward
a porn game where the goal is to try to NOT cum
Gabriel Nguyen
You sound like those kids who made "deep" flash games on newgrounds
Austin Harris
your pic looks like me but with a funny hat
Adrian Johnson
LITERALLY Monster Girl Quest
Nathaniel Gray
>But for that to happen devs must take it seriously too for that to happen, gamedevs need to actually grow up, the problem is most of them are immature manchildren who only have other videogames to reference
I'll add to this DO NOT REMAKE SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS
and no card games, they are the worst of all why the hell would you waste all the potential of interactive gameplay on something as slow and boring as a card game
I'm willing to bet he made YIIK and that's why he's upset.
Andrew Lopez
got another site that has a list of ridiculous game patents?
if not, shut your piehole
Cooper Wood
ask the japanese to give meaning, then they will deliver a masterpiece. ask westerners to do the same thing, and they will post cringe.
Angel Rodriguez
yeah, archive.fo
Thomas Reed
Hey, Cultist Simulator is great game and it uses cards. It has more simulation and narrative than many other games. Cards are just an abstracted way to represent reality.
Adrian Brooks
I don't understand people like OP
If they want games to become an art-form that they want...why not just learn how to make the game themselves? People who started a revolution typically began as one person but this thread just seems to be him bitching and giving vague answers as to what fits his descriptive of artform.
Why are you bothering game devs that want to make their own ideas because you feel entitled enough to lay around complaining while not actually doing anything? People like you are the worst because they prefer living in a stagnated state and never actually bother to change anything, you only exist to complain.
Dungeon Crawler where you play as a little highly customisable robot. Has a limited set of encounters with each one being hand-crafted as you explore a space-station filled with other sentient AI and figure out what the fuck happened. There's also something in there about the nature of personal identity but largely I just want a pseudo-mech dungeon crawler.
Brandon Cook
Sounds like a bullshit "idea guy" would spew. Fuck you.
Christian Smith
I sort of agree with you in that games do need to try to push the boundaries of the medium instead of being disposable time wasters. But surely games (Indie games especially) have meaning because of the creator's passion, self-expression and drive to create something people will ultimately find fun and remember, not because it tries to be a piece of arthouse media? And in the end, games can have years of hard work lovingly poured into them, and then ignored because the majority of people that play games (which includes Yea Forums) don't want to try anything new and will instead shill some substance-less garbage product instead, so it's no wonder people just want to make a game they want to enjoy.
Charles Campbell
>t. Dear Esther dev
Eli Ward
You're not wrong.
Oliver Morales
uhhhhhh fpbp
Xavier Johnson
>You're assuming a lot of shit about me which isn't true. I read your entire post. Not one mention of the "game" part of video game. You're like every Youtube video game "critic" who dissects a video game by talking about its narrative themes like it's a fucking movie
Adam Jenkins
>6 hours >no response
Isaac Williams
Mother 3 did that.
Carson Cook
Try Cogming.
Jayden Baker
He failed to find any, because he likes to complain and his vidya knowledge is limited.
Henry Clark
Looks really rad but I've always had huge issues reading ascii graphics. Still, I'll give it a go.
Cameron Stewart
fpbp, describes the reddiit OP perfectly
Nolan Gomez
Yea Forums on suicide watch lmao
Lucas Barnes
I look forward to Kojima's social strand system. This will be the game to elevate the industry just like the first MGS.
How about this: You stop coming here on this reddit infested shithole with people who are unironic commies, who bash anything japanese, and completely forget video games are a form of ENTERTAINMENT not a vessel for your opinions.
Landon Garcia
OP, you goddamned BUFFOON!
If games become recognized as an artform then the scummy political narrative bastards will start infesting it even moreso.
You... fucking... IDIOT!!
Carson Jenkins
There is good tileset.
Easton Hall
based art retard doesn't know that games are already art without falling for the meaning meme that all narrative based art forms are endlessly stuck in music can be free from this, games can be free from this, shut your face
Colton Long
no, fuck u nigger. go read a book if you want "meaning". the last thing anyone wants is some computer nerd autist trying to be artsy. video games are for gameplay, the game should be fun and that's all that matters. kill yourself
Jaxon Torres
Caveman IQ post
Aaron Long
>bing bing >wahoo ahh... art. this truly rivals the genius of bach, michelangelo, tchaikovsky... absolute masterpiece.
Kayden Wilson
t. autist mad nobody gave half a fuck about his interactive movie
Nicholas Green
most people are not deep, especially game devs.
Instead they would rather repeat whatever the mainstream narrative is in order to seem smart. In today's case that would be Progressivism.
decent games with good gameplay will sell regardless of their "pixelshit" artstyle. Hell, they don't even have to be decent games with good gameplay, they just need to get one thing right like Undertale
