What do you think about videogame music?

At this point I think I care more about the music than actually playing the games honestly. I've probably only put in hour into SMT4, but I've listened to the ost recreationally for years now.

Yeah there are some shitters out there. Not many dip into that territory, though.

>"I'll just say he's wrong because he's stupid and ignorant then because I'm still way too fucking lazy to make a well thought out counterargument! That'll show him!"
You literally said the same thing but made it longer than 4 words.

Fitting music is a must if you want your game to be good. Bad music will absolutely bring your game down, and good music can bring a bad game up to at least decent, memorable even. I think a lot of good games miss out on being excellent in part to grating music that annoys the fuck out of you. My favorite example is Chrono Cross. I'm no fan of the game, I think it's dumb, but I will never touch that game again because it means I'd have to listen to that god awful basic battle theme. Which is another thing. Bad music makes replay especially punishing if you got more than your fill of it on your first play.
so basically, music is important, even if it only serves to make your game in/tolerable.

youtube.com/watch?v=0kcF7E69C6Q

Only thing I like about games anymore.

Reminds me of this
youtu.be/7PHwym5QKMc

BotW's soundtrack's issues are due to the sound design team more than anything else.
The "lost sci-fi tech" atmosphere demanded something from the team that they couldn't deliver, so they went full retard and made everything sound like Pixar's Luxo. It's so obtrusive, no thematic music can work with it, so the composers went minimal. It didn't work.

Have some.
youtube.com/watch?v=fbCNKq7A5i4
youtube.com/watch?v=dLz3ia7TFqM
youtube.com/watch?v=u7Bzu8wcyzQ
youtube.com/watch?v=yPjjnfGKrPc
youtube.com/watch?v=62N_RRb2xw8
youtube.com/watch?v=uaL7nwWDctU
youtube.com/watch?v=MC0hV3dea9g
youtube.com/watch?v=L1pCxXrorKM
youtube.com/watch?v=fm0Mg0T2Sl0
youtube.com/watch?v=glza1kjFHlQ
youtube.com/watch?v=xWagDGBjnsI
youtube.com/watch?v=xk8QRGSYvrk
youtube.com/watch?v=g2oyweqZ7WM
youtube.com/watch?v=yX4JIIQDsUA
youtube.com/watch?v=CgfijqFheZM
youtube.com/watch?v=74ZXp_5M_7c
youtube.com/watch?v=WGJbuHUbw8k
youtube.com/watch?v=rjS4dFToVSQ
youtube.com/watch?v=pJWLGdzBZQI
youtube.com/watch?v=li5mXnHyg9w
youtube.com/watch?v=D_D6dQG86ds
youtube.com/watch?v=yoRtXlmYVT8

>Birthday cake
>Super sonic racing
pleb

Bad music is bad music.
Granted the rest of JSRF is great.

came just to post that. you're out of your fucking mind.

koji kondo didnt work on breath of the wild for some reason

Birthday Cake isn't even specifically a video game song though. And it's still good anyways.

It's good if you hate your ears.

this one stuck with me
youtube.com/watch?v=Xp1aDxhF768

>video pic
>looks like a faggot getting eaten by a swarm of pikachus

haha holy shit now that's all i can see

That adds up perfectly then, but it still makes no sense why they would choose to do that.

>almost randomly,
You're more correct than you probably know, although you're also pretty wrong. The ambient music has a bunch of different pieces of music it can combine, so the ambient tracks have no real fixed melodies, the game is essentially doing an improvisational jam session most of the time you're playing it.

>an actual argument
Thank you.
>the game is essentially doing an improvisational jam session most of the time you're playing it.
I feel like that really, really works to its disadvantage because there's no direction to it beyond the fact that it's meant for the background.

>Chaotic realm
>bad
It does its job perfectly.

One of those is actually kino when mixed with another song
youtube.com/watch?v=9IUDZ2EcuXI

Got a lot of it to listen to, never a reason to listen to the radio or anything else

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>See a Zelda Oracle music in the list
>"C-could he be... based?!"
>It's the worst one in the game
Fuck you user, i hate you.
youtube.com/watch?v=667k6q64zME
youtube.com/watch?v=5K4RR12EUhs
youtube.com/watch?v=xhGS79bPPCI
youtube.com/watch?v=y0lDskCT9hY
youtube.com/watch?v=EIzZLFIXfKc
youtube.com/watch?v=fvypkXIIXW4

The game does use this to some subtle effect though. It weaves in a lot of contextual tones and strings depending on where you are, what you're doing, the weather, what's around, etc. and smoothly transitions between these situations. Even the combat music has different levels of intensity it can represent. It doesn't make for much of an organized OST, but it gives a certain texture to the world in an unobtrusive way.

Co-worker showed these to me the other day. Even gachaniggers get some ok music
m.youtube.com/watch?v=dgaJOB578E8
m.youtube.com/watch?v=f4BazqaZ7PQ

It's supposed to be, his list is one of shitty music even though the wording in the chain reply doesn't paint it as such.

cringe.

Dark souls music will always be some of my favorites m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9dNrmGD7mU

He also hasn't worked on a Zelda significantly since MM.

At least post a good track.
youtube.com/watch?v=mvvFnR0kJFw

it's the best type of music, because it helps conencting so easily with how you felt when you encountered it

You need to be 18+ to post here.

BOTW's ost was great and fit the game. If it had a non-ambient soundtrack like any other Zelda game it would have completely clashed with the atmosphere and world of the game. Video game soundtracks and soundtracks in general need to capture the essence of its subject while still being good for the ears, which is exactly what BOTW's does.

If you think that VGM is generally better than regular music, you are fundamentally missing the point of VGM.

I am a fan of games that have it, yes.

This.

You're just a pleb who can't into dissonance

>It's supposed to be
Oh, well, guess i can facepalm then.
Extremely based shit music list.

I guess, but that also means the music itself is completely shit out of context and won't give off any strong feeling since it's so focused on complimenting whatever's happening in the moment.
That clearly didn't stop you.
>BOTW's ost was great and fit the game. If it had a non-ambient soundtrack like any other Zelda game it would have completely clashed with the atmosphere and world of the game.
see above
>Video game soundtracks and soundtracks in general need to capture the essence of its subject while still being good for the ears, which is exactly what BOTW's does.
No, I can see how it worked for BotW since that's what it was going for specifically, but most games need to be strong enough to convey the same feeling as the game/area they're in by themselves so everything else is strengthened as well. That's what Zelda has done for every other game and most soundtracks are stellar.

Oracle songs sucked mad dick, LA blows both of them out of the water. Thank goodness there weren't three of those mistakes made.

Nah, dissonance is the equivalent of modern "art" and all its derivatives.

>since it's so focused on complimenting whatever's happening in the moment.
Aka every video game OST in existence.

It depends on the game

Xenoblade 1 has better music than any franchise in any media for the last 15 years.

Undertale's is nice and cool

Red Dead Redemption 2 was good at everything that's not the soundtrack

Modern fighting games don't have music.

fucking retard. not everything has to be perfectly melodic and nice on the ears.
youtube.com/watch?v=cj69iU3zRWM
youtube.com/watch?v=ilOxrlTODMM
youtube.com/watch?v=90rIyiuQ5B0
youtube.com/watch?v=KDbLxyIAMx0
youtube.com/watch?v=iLQzaLr1enE
youtube.com/watch?v=w5ZkzUGKQzo
youtube.com/watch?v=z5Aflvdl6cI
youtube.com/watch?v=CEToKGfjlmM
youtube.com/watch?v=P0eVTeQi06c
youtube.com/watch?v=oVWPxbXzUzM
youtube.com/watch?v=mwTMvh8fI4I

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The key phrase being "in the moment," most OSTs focus on complimenting a level/area overall to give it a distinct feeling. BotW does not do this.

Sorry, but I stand by my previous statement. This is just plain stupid and you probably have the weirdest taste out there.

>Venus in Furs
>Not nice on the ears
Zoomie spotted.

then you shall remain a pleb. enjoy your perfectly tuned synthesizers, 4/4 rhythms, and squeaky clean guitar sounds with not a hit of distortion to be found.

oh you want not nice on the ears?
youtube.com/watch?v=mZGNTx6SrrE
youtube.com/watch?v=zHiU7aF-f_Q
youtube.com/watch?v=py4a61cpcls
youtube.com/watch?v=n4mts7X40FA
youtube.com/watch?v=SY49Qt9JSBw
youtube.com/watch?v=SY49Qt9JSBw
youtube.com/watch?v=5wYphqs6PZg
youtube.com/watch?v=dXLpEaHAraA
youtube.com/watch?v=3Y4979rHJuE
youtube.com/watch?v=2E4bfp8XgG8
youtube.com/watch?v=fkK6GT4pkbU
youtube.com/watch?v=KFeUBOJgaLU

>TMR and STGSTV
>Hard on the ears
You're outing yourself as a major pleb, user.

post your chart, hotshot.

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>youtube.com/watch?v=GLg_wp0IXoI
Name one (1) vidya OST with more soul than this, i'll be waiting 216 years.

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>won't even post his real chart
coward.

Which track, though?

youtube.com/watch?v=yHVhQIHZ674

And you keep enjoying listening to random noise instead of actual music as if you were half deaf.

Pretty good.

I know. Xenoblade's OST is one of the few vidya OSTs that has artistic merit to it.
youtube.com/watch?v=UDJtsfR51To

Pic related and the rest of the trilogy were the first games to get me to appreciate vidya music as a kid
>used to just chill in the hubworlds droning out to that beautiful ambience
>based Copelad

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Shut your whore mouth.

oh how self-righteous to claim what is and isn't music solely based on consonance. i couldn't have expected any less from such a unrefined palette.

youtube.com/watch?v=6LB7LZZGpkw

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Now that one is incredible. I heavily regret never playing Xenoblade, but wasn't it a Wii game? Does it run well on emulators?

Emulator has been the definitive way to play it for almost a decade, user.
youtube.com/watch?v=TA7pFI4pEv0

>BOTW's ost was great and fit the game. If it had a non-ambient soundtrack like any other Zelda game it would have completely clashed with the atmosphere and world of the game.
The "music" in BotW was always off-putting and clashed with what was happening.
There isn't a single instance of the game where the music enhanced what was happening in the game. It only detracted.

Also the combat music is so fucking shit and repetitive that it's one of the primary reasons I turned the music off eventually and just put on my own music.

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>Name one (1) vidya OST with more soul than this, i'll be waiting 216 years.

FF8
youtube.com/watch?v=ZMYisFOaz1s
youtube.com/watch?v=1eU0tRBHnE0
youtube.com/watch?v=YB30RVWeuP8
youtube.com/watch?v=74ZXp_5M_7c
youtube.com/watch?v=3jho-peCAKs
youtube.com/watch?v=WzKHWdVMsag
youtube.com/watch?v=3mOMQ_S3OCc

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Do you also think the sounds of a busy street corner are music?

Yes. Field recordings are music. Why do you think they aren't?

>horse riding theme
>guardian theme
>cute and funny village music like hateno village clashes with.... walking around in the village?
>the combat music is shit

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Mario galaxy 2 soundtrack makes me diamonds

i like ZUN music
it's a little hard for other people to like, i think

Post konzert tier ZUN music.

You can't make this shit up.

Well obviously I can't make up facts. Very astute observation.

Field recordings are music, zoomie.

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>the times the game ditches its retarded music system in favor of playing music normally it's passable
Yes, shocking.

Also yes the music in BotW is shit. Especially the combat music.
youtube.com/watch?v=CeT4_y9iXvc

Comparing it to music from say Darksiders 2, FF15 or some shit makes this crystal clear.

>posts post rock album
>calls it field recordings
wdhmbt?

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If they're incorporated into something else maybe, but not by themselves.
Okay, keep living in your delusions.

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Are you trying to say the riding theme was good? Because it was shit and always made me think I was entering combat.

>FF15
Zoom zoom

>radio music a shit
>listen to game OSTs in the car
Incoming cringe
>Sometimes open window on driver side and a little of the passenger if it's a nice enough day to see if anyone else knows the tune and responds in some way

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I like how you've never bothered to explain why field recordings aren't music or even give a definition of music. You just write things off based on arbitrary standards. Are you sure you're not the delusional one here?

The music is superior and I have 100% guaranteed played more games than you, be they old or new. Your immature juvenile brain is proof enough of that. Especially your complete lack of counter arguments and reading comprehension, while relying entirely on memes.

Reminder that aersia vip and aersia mellow are still up and available, and to this day are still being updated.

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>secondary genre
C'mon buddy those don't even count on the genre charts. There are way better examples of field recording albums you could've chosen.

Music should be performed, not just some jackass that pushes the record button their phone while on the subway and then uploads the recording to YT calling it "music".

I have a playlist with 130 songs from The Idolm@ster in my car, and do the same thing.

>youtube.com/watch?v=CeT4_y9iXvc
I don't hear the "shit" you're talking about, perhaps it's inside your head?

It's great, especially when you're riding through areas like the guardian ruins at Fort Hateno. Not only does the piano constantly shifting around sound great, the song itself fits with the lonely world of the game.

What was that one, rainsomething I think.
It was like aersia but active listeners could request and vote on the next upcoming track in the playlist.

>Both Level 4 songs are good.
Coincidence? Maybe, OR...

Are you so dense that you don't realize that the people you're recording ARE the performers, willingly or not? In this case, your acting as the recorder documenting the mundane sounds of your performers.

>I don't hear the "shit" you're talking about, perhaps it's inside your head?
You have shit taste and shits for brains, so it's understandable shit music would appeal to a shit brain.

I can't wait to see your next shitpost where you tell me that the combat music in BotW is better than the music in Darksiders 2, for example
youtube.com/watch?v=nl57xFzDIM0
youtube.com/watch?v=6w7kZYKqpyc

>Are you so dense that you don't realize that the people you're recording ARE the performers, willingly or not?
Let's hear your own made up definition for music. You're basically saying ALL recorded sound = music. Even if it doesn't include living beings making sounds.

I'm sorry, but you can keep your hipster recordings of you taking a shit as "music" to yourself.

I didn't think I had to with how obvious the answer is. There's no purpose or direction to it whatsoever so it can't be called music in my eyes.

I'll give you mine but you still fail to give me your definition. Music is, in it's simplest form, sound or silence or a combination of the two. You don't have to like the music I like, but to call it not music at all is factually incorrect. Now tell me why my definition clashes with yours.

Who says that music has to have direction? Have you never heard of improvised music? Are the soothing sounds of a wind chime not considered music? Your definition seems very flawed.

It's not lonely, and I don't believe it's meant to be. Just a riding theme with these bursts of piano notes for when you're traveling great distances on your grand adventure. If you wanted something that sounded lonely for a lonely world, unironically the earlier Minecraft music is a good example.
youtu.be/wl5N6sMe0NM
youtu.be/Rl1SACrzPF8
Lower tone, slower pace. That's what better represents a loneliness.

>take 2 seconds to google it
>music: vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
It's practically what I said anyway.

>Vocal
People talking on the corner of a street
>Instrumental
Cars horns, engines, construction, etc.
>Beauty, expression and emotion
Completely subjective
>Harmony
The sounds of the people harmonize with the sounds of their ambient surroundings to create the atmosphere of a street corner

I see nothing wrong with calling it music.

That Darksiders one is pretty alright, but how in the living shit is that combat music? Only a minute in does it vaguely start to sound like it suits combat, and then it immediately dies out, and takes another whole minute to get to that same point. At many points it sounds like something you'd hear in a text to speech youtube tutorial made by an indian.

BOTW's, while not having any real sense of danger in it, pictures a chaotic yet lighthearted combat scenario, which is most of the time exactly what the theme would be playing over.
Darksiders' wouldn't even fit as "combat" music for a slow, turn based JRPG.

No, you don’t. And that’s fine. But to the best majority: it’s noise. If you derive some pleasure from it then great, good for you. But don’t get too surprised when no one BUT you doesn’t want to be subjected to nonsense.

>Completely subjective
Most people can agree on a reasonable baseline, you're just the outlier.
>The sounds of the people harmonize with the sounds of their ambient surroundings to create the atmosphere of a street corner
No, it's all random noise and the only piece of anything it gives off is the strong presence of people.

>literally just a chart of Yea Forumscore
I don't think you could pose any harder

>but how in the living shit is that combat music?
Because it plays during combat.

>The sounds of the people harmonize with the sounds of their ambient surroundings to create the atmosphere of a street corner
This is a lot of mumbo jumbo bullshit of you pulling patterns out of your ass. Music is structured, if it isn't structured its just noise. Now, I like field recordings too, but that's because I realize that noise in itself can sound pleasant, but pleasant noise =/= music.

youtube.com/watch?v=oXVK_Od9dyE

>if yakety sax played during combat it would be combat music
You just exposed yourself as larping.

Extremely pleb
There's not a single videogame music piece that comes close to Rachmaninoff's 2nd Symphony, to Mozarts Piano Concerto, to the simple genius of Bach
Videogame music is merely background noise, to complement shallow entertainment

You've obviously never listened to game music.

I feel like it wouldn't be impossible to imagine a scenario where Yakety Sax would be appropriate combat music.

Prove it.

Sure, here's the evidence:

>There's not a single videogame music piece that comes close to Rachmaninoff's 2nd Symphony, to Mozarts Piano Concerto, to the simple genius of Bach
Ok but what about Megaman 2 Wily's Castle?

So what's the difference between noise and music? How do you define noise? Is something music just because some vague "majority" says so? I don't see what you're trying to imply.

I'm an outlier so my enjoyment derived of the piece becomes null and void? Since when did something become defined as "music" based on how many people listen to and like it?
Again, why can't what you define as "random noise" be palatable to some individuals who would consider it music?

This is completely false. Music need not have any coherent structure simply given the fact that what is "structured" is completely subjective.

BOTW's biggest failing was that the music matched only roughly what you were doing and not the context surrounding it. Its sparse soundtrack would have been totally fine if it had more regional flair. Music can help us remember events, that's why the Hateno Village, Kakariko Village, Tarrey Town, and Hyrule Castle themes stick out to people. Whether I'm fighting Moblins to the south, or the north, or the East, the battle music was all the same. You mention this in your own posts, even. The music gives you a specific feeling, but that feeling is homogeneous across the entire world and that gets boring. If the instruments had changed, or there were leitmotifs for each area that the game's auto composer threw in then the experience would be lifted greatly.

>I'm an outlier so my enjoyment derived of the piece becomes null and void?
Whether you enjoy it or not isn't really the point anymore, it's already been established that you have highly uncommon taste.
>Since when did something become defined as "music" based on how many people listen to and like it?
When people agreed on a common definition for it and put it in the dictionary.
>Music need not have any coherent structure simply given the fact that what is "structured" is completely subjective.
>"combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion."
Still subjective sure, but again, people have agreed on a common baseline for it. I like hearing the chirping of birds, but it's not music.

>This is completely false. Music need not have any coherent structure simply given the fact that what is "structured" is completely subjective
Ironic how you don't seem to realize you hurt your own argument by bringing in subjectivity into the equation. You own subjective opinion on what is and isn't structure just so you can pretend random instances of noise in a given time are a purposeful created pattern (which is demonstrably false) is silly. You don't need to justify noise as a music for it to still be considered artistic.

I believe BOTW2 will end up being an improvement of the previous game in many regards, but obviously there's no way to tell. I hope what you say becomes the case for the next game.

>Xenoblade's OST is one of the few vidya OSTs that has artistic merit to it
This is just bog standard anime string heavy melodrama with a four-on-the-floor pop beat tacked on to make it more exciting. You know nothing about "artistic merit". Stop being a pseud.

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>one of the few
They are a dime a dozen.

Zoom zoom

Run works with a lot of things.

youtube.com/watch?v=CzS6W80gLWI

It feels like somebody... wants to sell me something!

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zoom zoom coom doom boom vroom vroom

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Based and Spongereferencepilled.

youtube.com/watch?v=ICjD3f-8SXE

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Music is music. Some are good, some aren't. What is there to think?

Music can greatly enhance the game experience by giving context and meaning to scenes beyond what the music alone can deliver.

For example, this song, while strange on its own, makes this section of the game infinitely better and can immediately bring you back to your first experience of it upon later listening. There's a pretty good youtube comment, even, that describes how it fits together narratively with the locale: youtube.com/watch?v=G9jZ8Spe86M

>YouTube comment

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>no comment deviates from the average comment quality stereotype across an entire website with billions of users

On topic video game music.
youtube.com/watch?v=jy1scistRy0

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Relying on something as concrete and absolute as a dictionary definition to define something as squishy and subjective as music is inherently flawed. What if the people who wrote the definition of music considered the sounds of a bustling street to be musical? Nothing in the composition itself has changed inherently, only the lable that people have given it has. By that logic, either everything is music or nothing is. There is no common baseline in which music can be defined by. Music is not a value, and equation, or an object that can be easily classified. It was always depend on the person experiencing it and the cultural experiences that the listener possesses.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Is something that is musically structure forced to have some sort of premeditated pattern? If so, why can't the rhythmic sloshings of the ocean or the constant hum of a car engine be considered structured, and thus music? How about a computer program that randomly outputs musical notes based on a fixed time interval? And if structure is strictly based on time intervals, then isn't everything unstructured given that nothing can be perfectly spaced in time?

The second most important quality of a game after its gameplay

youtube.com/watch?v=GIw7MMK1X1E

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> Music is not a value, and equation, or an object that can be easily classified. It was always depend on the person experiencing it and the cultural experiences that the listener possesses.
Then why have you been trying to argue that background noise is music this entire time when IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE BRO?

What defines music is the intent of the creator in orchestrating noise into some intentional form (or an intentional lack of form if you're being experimental). Making a recording of a street corner is not music. It is a soundscape, which is its own distinct concept. You could say that the person making the recording is intentionally setting up the microphone in a particular spot in order to get particular sounds, and that that would qualify it as music. However they are not themselves organizing, curating, or otherwise influencing the sounds being recorded from the environment beyond their choice of soundscape. You could say it is an acoustic performance or aural presentation but it does not meet the specific criteria for music. To say that they are one and the same is an insult to both fields of study.

1 of only 2 things that matter in bideo games the other being gameplay

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>Is something that is musically structure forced to have some sort of premeditated pattern?
No something that is musically structured must be created with intent. Rhythmic patterns also aren't inherently music either without a goal behind them. How the structure is made is irrelevant as long as someone is behind it manipulating the sounds themselves. Recording random noise isn't music, taking samples of rhythmic patterns unintentionally found at random then manipulating them into a specific structure would be.

Inversely though against my point, I'd also argue that a specific intent to create soley unstructured random static without form, though fitting my prior stating of music being structure with intent, ALSO isn't music.

>video game soundtrack is remastered in a remake
>it has even more soul than the original
2001
youtube.com/watch?v=JTqwGW5ZKYc

2008
youtube.com/watch?v=wlBD2-2zmAk

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>Xenoblade's OST is one of the few vidya OSTs that has artistic merit to it.
Damn, you must really hate video game music

youtu.be/iiNyQD5Yq3E
youtu.be/HhF7M1a5H5Y
youtu.be/WsMRHu1GhbY

Well done, Xenoblade 1, well done. HOWEVER

>1:42 to 2:55 blocks your path
youtube.com/watch?v=KtPk1iy-ypY

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Comparing to obvious corporate propaganda puppets ain't really fair user.

>Why, I like to listen to the soundtracks of shoot 'em ups, especially by the likes of Hisayoshi Ogura, Yasuhisa Watanabe, Yosuke Yasui, Toshiya Yamanaka, k.h.d.n, Shohei Tsuchiya, Manabu Namiki, Tamayo Kawamoto, and Hyakutaro Tsukumo. You may have heard of them.

youtube.com/watch?v=6FEdlAL3bX0
youtube.com/watch?v=jL7c82kmM68
youtube.com/watch?v=GRyQoOnaFlQ
youtube.com/watch?v=IOSRTILzl1s
youtube.com/watch?v=cd_QexQgsSQ
youtube.com/watch?v=HZWXaw9ZSwg
youtube.com/watch?v=KeC0u8gu28g
youtube.com/watch?v=YgPmowb0Gbk
youtube.com/watch?v=z472pIce5CY
youtube.com/watch?v=dKR5b8_plQc
youtube.com/watch?v=ZLA5hqgOV0M
youtube.com/watch?v=ObJVuRTIIS4
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Because, with something as subjective as music, all it takes is a single person categorize it as music for it to be music. If a hundred people say Chopan's Clair de Lune is not music, but one person does, is that person's take ruled out? Of course not.

Why can't soundscapes be considered music and vice versa? Is it impossible to create something that is both a soundscape and music? The influence or intent of the creator is irrelevant when it comes to the classification of music. How is there any difference between a digitally crafted soundscape of a street corner meant to sound identical to a real street corner different from a real street corner. On the other hand, is the recording of a Beethoven being played back on a loudspeaker not considered music since it required no organization nor influence from the curator? What if the Beethoven price was replaced with randomly generated passages meant to sound melodic as possible? What I'm trying to get at is that there is no fine line between sound and music as they are interchangable.

So you just disproved your own point by proving that intent of the curator or creator is irrelevant when it comes to creating music because intent can result in, by your logic, either music or non-music. I think what you are trying to say is that something isn't music if it resembles randomness. I would like to refute this point. Where does one draw the line between music that is not random and "music" that is too random to be considered as such? The answer is that there isn't one in that it depends on the person you are asking. As such, either all music is considered "random" or none of it is.

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I wish Mitsuda would do more modern vidya soundtracks.
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Yeah but in past games they would just slap on Tohru Minegishi doing a (usually pretty good) Kondo impression. This time they just got a bunch of literal whos to fart out failed attempts at sounding like Joe Hisaishi.

>If a hundred people say Chopan's Clair de Lune is not music, but one person does, is that person's take ruled out? Of course not.
Except it is because like I said before, that one person is an outlier. Their opinions shouldn't be taken seriously 99% of the time.

>So you just disproved your own point by proving that intent of the curator or creator is irrelevant when it comes to creating music because intent can result in, by your logic, either music or non-music. I think what you are trying to say is that something isn't music if it resembles randomness.
I wouldn't say disproved, moreso expanded upon. Intent to create a pattern is music to me, with the intent being the highlighting factor but the pattern still being a variable to be taken into consideration.
>I think what you are trying to say is that something isn't music if it resembles randomness.
No, something isn't music if it IS randomness. If it resembles it but isn't random, then it has a pattern made with intent. If someone had the intent to make randomness and succeeded, it wouldn't resemble randomness, it would just be randomness.

>Where does one draw the line between music that is not random and "music" that is too random to be considered as such? The answer is that there isn't one in that it depends on the person you are asking
I agree with this however, this isn't an excuse to continuously lower the bar of what can be considered music. I don't disagree with your notion factually, I'm just against your position. Without distinctions, we can't grow. In order to make new things we have to make judgments to base their differences off from each other. Correlating Sound = Music is such a generalized statement that nothing branches off from it. It benefits nothing and encourages nothing.

You're avoiding my point. In something as subjective as music, opinions are the literal backbone of such a concept. It is silly to rule someone out just because their opinion differes from yours. If some says that 1+2 equaled infinity, they are objectively wrong due to the laws of mathematics and can be ruled out. If someone said they liked a certain song, they cannot be wrong because there are no objective standards to compare "liking song" to. Thus, they cannot be ruled out.

Nah, BotW's minimalistic music fits perfectly with the feeling of isolation you get when exploring the wilderness. BotW Hyrule isn't like most incarnations of the kingdom where everything was fine until about last week or so, it's a kingdom that has slowly been destroyed one village at a time over a hundred years, even the capital city has been destroyed so thoroughly you can barely recognise it anymore, and the survivors in the few remaining settlements struggle to hold onto hope as the end inevitably draws closer. It wouldn't fit to have the classic theme blaring in your ears as you wander into yet another ruined village, feeling like you've let everyone in Hyrule down, it's too triumphant. You only get to hear it once you beat Calamity Ganon and give Hyrule a chance to rebuild.

Hopefully they learned their lesson after the random Berkeley grad they hired to write dogshit for Odyssey got mercilessly BTFO by Koji Kondo in 1 (one) track

>Why can't soundscapes be considered music and vice versa?
Because music is a particular subcategory of the sounds which can be found in a soundscape. You are right that I was wrong to pin the classification of music as only intent. Of the many categories of organized sound, music is just one part. There are additional structural requirements of music surrounding pitch, rhythm, and timbre. A digitally crafted soundscape is just that. There is no intention when creating a digital soundscape that it has any rhythm, or particular tones to it. Only that it replicates the acoustic environment of the intended location.

Like the other user said, though, asserting that any sound is music just makes the term music mean nothing. So the term's existence engenders a distinction of some kind. It's otherwise a massive simplification that doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Really though, I'm bullshitting all of this from reading the Wikipedia articles on 'Soundscape' and 'Music' so I hope you don't think you're having new and deep insights. If you're actually interested in the subject then you should probably at least read up on the literature since just from my cursory glances at the articles they pretty well rebuke your idea that sound of any kind is music.

True, but shit examples.

Which track?

Steam Gardens, obviously. I actually gave the new composer a lot of credit for the track because it has a strong melody, and progressive production/a progressive concept for fucking Mario VGM. Then it was revealed that Kondo actually did that one and my esteem of the former plummeted while my respect for Kondo was reinforced.

>I wouldn't say disproved, moreso expanded upon. Intent to create a pattern is music to me, with the intent being the highlighting factor but the pattern still being a variable to be taken into consideration.
Music with pattern can be created with absolutely no intent involved. Take a simple coincidence in which 100 cars miraculous honk in such a fashion as to cover the opening to Pictures at an Exhibition. Surely there is pattern, but there was no intent.
>No, something isn't music if it IS randomness. If it resembles it but isn't random, then it has a pattern made with intent. If someone had the intent to make randomness and succeeded, it wouldn't resemble randomness, it would just be randomness
How do you define randomness and how do you know that this definition is universal to all beings? Like I said before, what is considered "randomness" differs from person to person, thus either everything is considered "randomness" or nothing is.
>this isn't an excuse to continuously lower the bar of what can be considered music.
There is no "universal baseline" for what is and isn't considered music because you cannot, from an objective standpoint, categorize a piece as "not music." Why do you think there are no artistic barriers to entry for platforms like Bandcamp or SoundCloud?
>Without distinctions, we can't grow. In order to make new things we have to make judgments to base their differences off from each other. Correlating Sound = Music is such a generalized statement that nothing branches off from it. It benefits nothing and encourages nothing.
I beg to differ immediately. The act of categorizing what is and isn't musical inherently stifles creative output--we must strive to challenge the definitions set by the status quo in order to develop. To give an artistic example, if we didn't have revolutionary painters and sculpters such as Picasso, Monet, Duchamp, etc. we would all be looking at portraits and still life paintings. (1/2)

Not the user you're replying to but y'all went on the wrong tangent about intent. Music isn't JUST about intent. It's also about how it's structured.

Please take some kind of music theory class or read up on acoustic classification because it is very much not entirely subjective. Email a professor or something and see if you can get some leads. At this point it's just pontificating about things that you (or really anybody here) is actually qualified to talk about.

Or at the very least stop using analogies and try to actually codify your opinion in a meaningful way. "All sound is music" means there would be no need for both labels. However, colloquially and in general society there is definitely a distinction (or else the words would be the same and we wouldn't be having this issue). Making some academic argument that "They're REALLY just the same thing if you think about it" is shot down by common sense that the two terms, in the real world, definitely classify different things in some way.

There is no 'creative output' to be gained from incessantly trying to homogenize terms. There are already myriad codified ways of defining music that go far beyond what anyone here can do. Retreading that ground on an image board isn't productive.

For your reading pleasure: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elements_of_music

Also a fun one that would make you erect and featuring productive sources of discussion: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_music

>Music with pattern can be created with absolutely no intent involved. Take a simple coincidence in which 100 cars miraculous honk in such a fashion as to cover the opening to Pictures at an Exhibition. Surely there is pattern, but there was no intent.
and I wouldn't consider this coincidence music if this was the first time ever this piece was created through this means.
>How do you define randomness and how do you know that this definition is universal to all beings?
I define it by it's opposing nature and correlation to "order" It's almost seems like you have no actual distinctions between anything, making "meaning" itself meaningless.
>I beg to differ immediately. The act of categorizing what is and isn't musical inherently stifles creative output
Says the guy who a few posts above said that this is music
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Generalizing sound (and by association silence) to music necessary expands our creative avenues as we are allowed to work with a practically infinite definition.

>Of the many categories of organized sound, music is just one part. There are additional structural requirements of music surrounding pitch, rhythm, and timbre.
Music need not any of these elements as these elements are simply used to aid in the enjoyment, which, by definition, is entirely subjective.
>There is no intention when creating a digital soundscape that it has any rhythm, or particular tones to it. Only that it replicates the acoustic environment of the intended location.
Music can be created to be completely devoid of intent and meaning and be nihilistic in nature. So can any artform for that matter.
>Like the other user said, though, asserting that any sound is music just makes the term music mean nothing. So the term's existence engenders a distinction of some kind. It's otherwise a massive simplification that doesn't get anyone anywhere.
See my previous post. With the oversimplification of the definition of music comes the massive collapse any sort of barrier for entry into the creation of music. In order for it to advance as fast and as much as possible, music should not be safegauded by arbitrary standards. Rather, it should be open and free for anyone to participate in. Getting people to like your music, however, is an entirely different story.

>See my previous post. With the oversimplification of the definition of music
I can't argue in good faith anymore when you somehow think that attributing limitations is somehow an oversimplification when you're definition is quite literally "Music is everything"

So what is music to you. Why use the term 'music' at all. Why not
>Sound need not any of these elements as these elements are simply used to aid in the enjoyment, which, by definition, is entirely subjective.
>Sound can be created to be completely devoid of intent and meaning and be nihilistic in nature. So can any artform for that matter.
>See my previous post. With the oversimplification of the definition of sound comes the massive collapse any sort of barrier for entry into the creation of sound. In order for it to advance as fast and as much as possible, sound should not be safegauded by arbitrary standards. Rather, it should be open and free for anyone to participate in. Getting people to like your sound, however, is an entirely different story.

You're going down a dead end. You can't define why this niggling would return the outcome you say it would. You can't define why completely destroying any and every classification of sound could somehow allow "the artform" (which you claim doesn't exist because there is no music because defining music retards growth according to you) to progress.

For the love of god read up on this shit.

Final post.

>Please take some kind of music theory class or read up on acoustic classification because it is very much not entirely subjective.
You're missing the point. Of course there are objectively elements to music such as tempo, length, rhythm as there are objective elements to paintings or poems. The point is that how one classifies, enjoys, and perceives music is entirely subjective.
>"All sound is music" means there would be no need for both labels. However, colloquially and in general society there is definitely a distinction
The sociological view on the definitions of sound and music are hinged on antiquated definitions given by dictionary writers. Why can't the two defnitions be interchangable? Is it because the people around me say I can't? Then where's the progress? To progress is to write new defnitions and influence the ones around you to do the same.
>There is no 'creative output' to be gained from incessantly trying to homogenize terms. There are already myriad codified ways of defining music that go far beyond what anyone here can do.
But the generalization of terms necessarily facilitates new entry points that would otherwise not be accessable. Maybe it is time for someone to coin a new term for music that encompasses everything.
An opposition to order is completely meaningless as "order" is different from person to person. In sounds, there are no distinctions between what is and isn't music. However, that is only in sound. I am not saying the sun is music. As for the silence, I see nothing wrong.
I'm not sure I understand so I will reiterate my stance on the creative barrier. By defining what is and isn't music in sound, you are limiting what can be categorized as music. If I said that "only classical music is music" then I am disregarding all other musical genres. By removing this definition, everything can be music, and creativity can spur.

Goodnight.

>BOTW's ost was great and fit the game
I have no doubt it would be great if it had one.