Why didn't Tolkien develop the orcs...

Why didn't Tolkien develop the orcs? You could have new storytelling possibilities by giving them a bit of nuance and characterization but he was insistent on making them completely one dimensional for some reason

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>Why did the man who made two villains called Saruman and Sauron make orcs 1d
because he was a bad writer maybe

What tax policy would orcs implement?

tolkien was a hack who continuously retconned his own shit

Because orcs are niggers and niggers never develop anything.

You obviously never even read the books.

>people never have slightly similar names in real life
retard faggot

clearly because he was a racist

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Tolkien has actually said he regretted making the orcs such one-dimensional bad guys.

LOTR revolves around forgiveness and virtue, and how you should show compassion to those who do not deserve it; so the orcs being 100% total shitheads that deserve no mercy was something Tolkien actually didn't like, but the story kind of required it.

Tolkien struggled with writing the orcs because they had to be individuals of unquestionable evil for the sake of the story, but the idea of a person being completely incapable of salvation chafed with his Christian beliefs. He didn't want to bother finding a solution to that contradiction or draw attention to it, so he just didn't focus on it.

This

>Saruman
>Sauron
>SS
what did John Ronald Reuel Tolkien mean by this?

More like, why is Shadow of War 120 fucking GB?

What's with zoomers and hating The Beatles and Tolkien? I just don't get it.

Do you really need a detailed explanation at this point?

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Because he died?

You now remember Hitler and Himmler.

he did? The Uruk-Hai and Cirith Ungol chapters give them a fair bit of characterization.

> that one war in the 1400s where the three kings involved were called John, João and Juan

They are told to hate anything old just for being old and mindlessly parrot criticisms of old things instead of doing research and actual critical thinking of why old things were the way they were.

Weren't the orcs in LOTR and Hobbit more like what we nowadays understand to be goblins? At least in the books.

“Orc” is the elvish word for “goblin” (or more accurately “goblin” is the English word for “orc.”) In the Hobbit the sword name “Orcrist” is translated as “Goblin-Cleaver.”

There actually was that brief scene where Sam overhears the two orcs talking (and they talk in a regular modern day way and nothing like anyone else does in LOTR) and they're complaining they don't want to fight Sauron's wars and just want to go home to be bandits in the mountains. So, they are still bad but they are not willingly following Sauron but coeerced by his power.
Still though, would you really WANT these beasts humanized?

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The orcs of Moria were definitely like goblins, not so sure about the Morgul orcs.

calm it down with the edge guys. dont you have homework to do?

-strained buzzing and whirring as his motorized chair struggles to remain functional- "Ah, ha ha, *munch, munch* ol' J.R.R., didn't, ah, see you come in! -burp- No please, please, [smack] sit down, sit down, there' something we, (pant) need to talk about. *farts* Heavens excuse me, oh ho! Well getting down to 'brass tacks' - or brass tax, I might say SNORT! - yes, well I was sitting, counting the money coming in from, slurp, my show - terribly taxing ah yes? - when the thought occurred me, watching that money from my award-winning show... [belch] from my, (siiippp) award, award, awar... sorry, I lost my breath, award-winning books, that I [chews] that I can't seem to recall you mentioning [more chewing] anything about Gondor's *blows nose* taxation policy. Surely I must have -releases one long wet smelly fart - missed it while glancing through the pages (cough). You did [scratches ballsack] say something about it, right? Sales tax? (sweats) Value-added tax? *licks lips* Don't just sta - oh my my heart - stand there my man, out with it! Surely the, the thought has crossed your mind?! -chuckles until accidental urination-"

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More importantly, I wish he would have developed Rhun a bit further.

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It's just fantasy saracens.

weren't they descended from treacherous Gondorians from the old civil wars or was that Umbar?

>Why didn't Tolkien develop the orcs?
if he had done so you would now be asking
>Why didn't Tolkien develop the elves/dwarves/numoreans?
instead.

Yes, my king

Boomer here. Beatles have always been fucking gay. There's nothing more pathetic than a pussy whipped man, and Lennon was the poster boy of that movement.

Why do they like Marx and Lennin then?

>treacherous Gondorians

nah they were numenoreans that founded kingdoms other than gondor and arnor when their homeland sank. Gondor ended up being warmongering savages oppressing people far and wide.

The ruling council of Umbar was.

Post you orcs

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Does this mod add the Swan Knights of Dol Amroth?

Orcs would have been the inheritors of middle earth after the age of man came to an end. Just as the elves eventually passed into the west so, too, would humanity one day.

why didn't god develop niggers? You could have new storytelling possibilities by giving them a bit of nuance and characterization but he was insistent on making them completely one dimensional for some reason

That's either Reforged or Third Age, so yes.

meh, he was in the other extreme before, beating his former wife and girlfriends and abandoning his first son
although he was an asshole all around, they still made some great music

also never forget
youtube.com/watch?v=oMWQNwfsAJ0

Based.

Nice, what's it called?

>Play on hardest difficulty
>Its still way too fucking easy
When are they going to make the ai not shit in these games? If you do the pit fights it shows exactly what is wrong with the orc ai. They spend like 90% of their time just fucking standing there doing nothing.

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It's a mod for Total War: Medieval 2. Third Age Reforged/Third Age Total War is what you want.

>that screech yodle
Hahaha holy fuck, first time ever hearing about that.

Because they weren't meant to be an empathetic group with a foreign culture, they were meant to be savage monsters. Tolkien was all about writing fantasy with black and white morality, not everything needs to be some some morally gray "heroes on both sides" bullshit

Sweet. Thanks user

The system is designed to make fights easy and cinematic. It cant be difficult because it's not designed to test you.

there's a difficulty where you die in one hit but you do much more damage, have you tried it?

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Because orcs are retarded mutants. All the other main races were developed personally by a demigod. That's an valid explanation for lack of development. They're basically niggers.

Kek

You don't need to like the person to like the music. I put Ari Lennox on my car almost daily but I can't stand her as person. I tried to follow her on twitter to know about her new stuff but I just can't tolerate all that bullshit.

Considering life, or at least civilization, is believed to have come from somewhere in the Mesopotamian region wouldn't that make anyone who's not from there the mutant?

Why doesn't GRRM simply eat the baby orcs out of the little orc cradles?

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>kotaku.com/hayao-miyazaki-seems-to-hate-lord-of-the-rings-indiana-1833458496
>Hayao Miyazaki may like many things, but the Lord of the Rings movies and the Indiana Jones series don’t appear to be among them.
>“If someone is the enemy, it’s okay to kill endless numbers of them,” he continued. “Lord of the Rings is like that. If it’s the enemy, there’s killing without separation between civilians and soldiers. That falls within collateral damage. How many people are being killed in attacks in Afghanistan? The Lord of the Rings is a movie that has no problem doing that [not separating civilians from enemies, apparently]. If you read the original work, you’ll understand, but in reality, the ones who were being killed are Asians and Africans. Those who don’t know that, yet say they love fantasy are idiots.”
>“Even in the Indiana Jones movies, there is a white guy who, ‘bang,’ shoots people, right? Japanese people who go along and enjoy with that are unbelievably embarrassing. You are the ones that, ‘bang,’ get shot. Watching [those movies] without any self-awareness is unbelievable. There’s no pride, no historical perspective. You don’t know how you are viewed by a country like America.”
>Miyazaki has previously made critical comments about the United States, writing, “I dislike the United States that dropped the nuclear bombs and does not regret it.” He added that he was “against Americanization” and “hate[d] people who are proud that cheap Japanese cars are popular in America, and I look at people who wear badges of the U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force that filled Vietnam with dioxins as enemies.” He also claimed to be “Anti-jeans, anti-bourbon, anti-burgers”, “Anti-fried chicken, anti-cola, anti-American coffee”, and “Anti-New York, Anti-West Coast, Disneyland go back to America!”

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I mean orcs are literally stereotypic mutants.

> sperging out this badly
I hate modern amerimutts too, but that doesn't mean Coca-Cola isn't a great invention or that jeans aren't a based item of clothing.

>nobody posted cute orc girl

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>Anti-West Coast
AYO HOL' UP

>but in reality, the ones who were being killed are Asians and Africans. Those who don’t know that, yet say they love fantasy are idiots
>pretty much says fantasy is real
The rest of that stuff is pretty based, but, damn, that part is fucking stupid. He deluded himself there and then weaponized it as an argument.

I think you should have also included that part:
>“Americans shoot things and they blow up and the like, so as you’d expect, they make movies like that,” said Miyazaki at the time.
Miyazaki is one funny jaded faggot.

A xenophobic gook. Shocker.

Could you arguably consider Middle Earth after the First Age post-apocalyptic?

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but he's right

No.
Elves and humans were made by God.

Dwarves were made by a demigod.
Orcs were made from elves, by a demigod.

After the second age

He did feel bad about it. The idea that an entire group of people is irredeemable clashed with his personal beliefs he developed later that anybody can find salvation, and went on to write in the Silmarillion that they were divided between good and evil like every other race that wasn't the elves. Personally I don't have a problem with them being one dimensional. They originated from tortured and mutilated elves, they're a race that shouldn't even exist, it makes sense that they would all be spiteful creatures that hate themselves and everyone else. Wiping them out would be a mercy. It's why the ones from the Ralph Bakshi movie are probably my favorite interpretation, because they're portrayed as fanged, ghoulish, awful, shadowy things.

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You're just going into semantics there, the fact is that humans, elves, dwarves, ents and maybe something else i don't recall were made by god or demigods, while orcs weren't "created", they were mutated from elves.

nice argument tolkienshitter

People can't do that nowadays. They all feel the need to be part of the cancel culture.

Actually, I guess i went into semantics myself, but you get the idea.

im a zoomer
beatled are good
tolkien is boring after 100 years of development in fantasy genres

Fuck this ugly nip. He talks shit about Americans for trivializing other cultures' symbols in the media, when Evangelion, probably Japan's pop culture equivalent of Star Wars, spams Christian iconography all over the place just because it looks cool.

Nobody but Eru can create life, so you're right there.

...

>Hayao Miyazaki may like many things
doubt

This OP is why people still ask why they didn't use the Eagles.
Read the fucking Silmarillion.

He didn't, you made it all up.

I had this dude called dush wathever, 1st time I killed him cut him in half, he came back with his torso patched up, his name changed to DUSH THE MACHINE. no big deal, killed him again and cut his arm, he came back with a metal arm (kinda like azog's). killed him again, skewing his head with muh sword, he came back with a metal plate on the head. killed him again, this time burning him alive, and he came back with the burnt face hidden under a rotten bandage. at this point he was so fucking OP that killed me several times, becoming so powerful he could punch sauron in the balls, and became commander of the fortress. the machine was in the throne room with some other orc chiefs, he was immune to almost fucking everything, no weaknesses, etc. had to lvl a legendary sidekick orc and try many more times until I could beat the motherfucker. luckly he was tameable, so got him on my side and made him commander again. but I do not trust him, Im waiting for him to betray me and start the cycle again...

After the second age the things were good for a lot of time. Like it took around a shitton of time until fall of Osgoliath. After the first age there were some elves left on mainland, but all human races were savages (not includion Numeron)

based dush

Most zoomers have no personalities, they waste too much time on porn, TV and Minecraft to develop one. They think hating old things is personality, and one distinct from that of their parents, too.

In Tolkien theology, only God (Eru) can truly create. Aulë got impatient waiting for humanity and tried to create his own version, but these first dwarves were mindless puppets until Eru took pity on Aulë and adopted the dwarves, creating them as a real thing.

Tolkien never came up with a solution for Orcs that he was satisfied with. The idea that they were converted from elves by Melkor fit the need that only God could truly create, but this meant that they couldn’t be pure evil and should be capable of redemption.

I'd argue the humans never really achieved a point that they'd consider it all an apocalypse, not until after Numenor

That's a miserable way of life, tho

The biggest problem with all of this is that it's insane hypocrisy on his part
When it's time to accept the big American awards it's all fine and dandy but when it's convenient he brings up the "Americans are so violent you guise!"
He makes good films but otherwise his opinions are a joke and should be taken as such

No he's not

Orcs are meant to be an analogue for niggers.
In theory he could have expanded on it but Tolkien's work was ultimately derivative, if there is no character in the source material he seemed to have difficulty expanding, which is why Orcs are dull, angry, violent, ugly and pathetic to the last.

The Orcs *are* demons. They are not really sentient, living beings with a purpose in their heart ; they are a construct, a parody of life. They serve as a metaphor for men that let themselves be seduced and corrupted by the demon (Morgoth).
The morally grey characters in Tolkien's writings are Humans (that either follow the forces of good, or let themselves be tempted), Elves (fleeing their responsabilities or helping), Dwarves (good-natured people with the sin of Greed) and Hobbits.

never read the books, but what else do you from creatures literally birthed from weird magic

For humans maybe but the catastrophic loss of Beleriand basically fucked over everyone who was around at the time

>If you do the pit fights it shows exactly what is wrong with the orc ai.
yeah. they're fucking retarded

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They think they're hot shit for challenging conventional opinions and pointing out "flaws" in popular works. That's why you see so many threads talking shit about old vidya/movies/cartoons/whatever.

>Yea Forums hates Tolkien now
I fucking hate zoomers

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what the fuck are you talking about you fucking retard
nextshark.com/hayao-miyazaki-declined-join-oscar-academy-least-4-times/
He's literally notorious for refusing to accept American awards due to bombings in the middle east.

God I fucking hate zoomers

True that.

Point accepted. But after 2nd age it was pretty chill for a long time

Were there any female orcs and what would happen if you fucked one?

Not technically an orc but I think Lurtz was female

IIRC it was a rock and a hard and a place situation. He couldn't make them innately evil as ordinary creatures because that clashed with his beliefs about salvation, but he couldn't make them innately evil creations of evil either because evil does not have the power to create, only corrupt. He never found an answer that satisfied him.

they were breed in cocoons as you see with saruman uber-orcs. no need to have a weaker sex if they can all be strong males

Name literally one person who has done fantasy better.

He's gonna say GRRM, it's a programmed Zoomer reply

Sometimes the pit fights can look pretty cool, if the AI decides to be somewhat competent.

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Todd.

Other times it's just straight up hilarious how retarded it can get.

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>The Orcs *are* demons. They are not really sentient, living beings with a purpose in their heart ; they are a construct, a parody of life
Wrong

based

Orcs are niggers.

Not him, but CS Lewis is arguably better than Tolkien on certain aspects, notably in pacing and keeping your sense of wonder while being much more direct (and thus, more powerful) in the analogies and messages he wants to convey.

holy shit this looks terrible

Okay but seriously, what WAS Gondors tax policy?

kek
>written by Snorri Mithrilstein

Well were there ever any really cute feminine boy orcs that maybe all the big manly rough orcs bullied?

9>23
fucking wow

>Orcs are black guys
This is a lot more insulting to Tolkien than asking why orcs aren't morally diverse
And it's the SJW's interpretation too

Kekd

I think orcs were grown or something in the earth. The real question is if they had working dicks or not, and if they raped as they pillaged.

No, you fucking faggot. Kill yourself

Why didn't the fellowship just climb that mountain?
I'm unfamiliar with his work outside of Narnia, of which I only enjoyed The Horse and his Boy. The rest bored me to tears.

>retards itt actually claiming tolkien was a bad writer
contrarianism knows no bounds, jesus fuck

>I can avoid being audited if I wish, but to not pay taxes entirely, that is a rare gift

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>, “I dislike the United States that dropped the nuclear bombs and does not regret it.” He added that he was “against Americanization” and “hate[d] people who are proud that cheap Japanese cars are popular in America, and I look at people who wear badges of the U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force that filled Vietnam with dioxins as enemies.” He also claimed to be “Anti-jeans, anti-bourbon, anti-burgers”, “Anti-fried chicken, anti-cola, anti-American coffee”, and “Anti-New York, Anti-West Coast, Disneyland go back to America!”

Based Miyazaki

It doesn't matter. LOTR isn't a tale about the kingdoms, the peoples, or the politics. It's about the journeys of the heroes.

Fucking tranny loving freak.

boom goes bomb
should have gave em a 3rd
suck it nips

b-but muh worldbuilding...

>why are servants created by evil incarnate bad
are you retarded?

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Same reason they didn't call the eagles earlier.

I suggest you guys read the Letters of Tolkien book that compiled all his correspondence, he eleaborates a ton about everything in there but there's a lot about the orcs too and his back and forth about them. One thing he said was Orcs were a "race of rational incarnate creatures, though horribly corrupted, if no more so than many Men to be met today".
Somebody also asked him if Orcs were allegory for communists. Really makes you think.

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Yeah but what was it?

only eru can create you secondary retard

Orcs have a progressive 0% tax policy. They also don't pay employees.

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Really loved the Magician's Nephew myself. I really like the style he has. He nails the "grandfather telling bedtime stories" feel. Though my first contact with it was when I was 13 years old, so I may be biased.

lmao no you literal retard. remember how the dwarves were created?

>i can't carry it for you, frodo
>but i can claim you as a dependent

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youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y
WHERE THERE'S A WHIP