Why can't fighting games have good netcode...

skullgirls, killer instinct 2013, rising thunder, lethal league (blaze also does but it's a custom fork), divekick, punch planet (still in development), plus a bunch of emulators that were later assembled into fightcade

LOL

So Riot's new game will have the following:

>Great netcode since it will use GGPO to its full potential
>Amazing budget
>Free to play
>millions of cosmetic shit to buy
>Simplify execution and reward experience more.
>amazing prize pools.

How will other fighting games ever compete bros

whats so funny?

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Sajam literally destroyed this topic.

Only FG I really play right now is melty blood and that’s because I’m not going to waste my spare time trying to find a player who is in the same region and wired and have to still put up with shitty servers when I could spend my time playing other games.

If Japan does fix their net code, you will still not see a big boom in the FGC but you will probably have people actually stick to your games.

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Play more fighters

It's gotta be extremely cheap if indie garage developers can afford it.

>Indie devs with double digit playerbases can afford to incorporate GGPO
BUT IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE FOR THE MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY PLEASE UNDERSTAND

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Doesn’t fightcade and melty blood community edition use ggpo or is that rollback?

no its not true they are rich and have all the riches, not even companies like capcom or arcsys can use GGPO without going bankrupt.

Just look at Riot games, they are the only company capable of using GGPO, they had to about 75% of China's government budget in order to pay cannon brothers for GGPO.

Don't forget built in fanbase if they go with LoL characters instead of a new IP. Basically western GranBlue Versus since nobody would give two fucks about that game if it didn't have gacha characters yet it still gets played at major tournaments despite not even being out yet.

How do I get into melty blood?

ggpo implementation is free.

then your local FGC consists of 10 guys playing SFV or MK11 and the 40 autists playing smash and you have no bf to play anime with have been playing smash because of this haha

dude I really can't see a future for normal footsie games like jive, only way for Riot to fuck up and spare jive's life is to release it as a PC only game (which I doubt they will) and to not have crossplay.

>who is in the same region
Which region you in?

Wish I could get into smash, I will be honest, most of the time I shit on smash is because I have to cope with the fact that I'm trash at the game.

I played like 2000 games, and I still get my ass kicked by people over at /vg/, which is basically a bunch of tranny clowns that play online for fun and don't go serious on me, AND I STILL GET FUCKED IN THE ASS.

>Download community edition, quick google search it’s free
>get a proper controller and familiarize (a lot of people still use keyboard)
>find a character you like
I suggest just taking turns playing everyone in story mode, if you are a lore fag then you are in for a lot because there’s 2 VN prequel and a whole fucking universe
>learn the basic combos
learn how to instant air dash (must for anime fighters)
learn the air game and mess around a bit in training and make sure you can execute every move on your characters movelist.
>learn 1 combo string you can execute easily
for most people it’s just pretty simple air juggle
>learn advanced techniques and watch other people and play other people
corner combos
anti air combos
how to play other characters
learn from your mistakes, losing is good and watch what your opponent is doing

Plenty of guides online
youtube.com/watch?v=Zz4L7uy3zj8

You talking Ultimate? Are you having trouble with spacing and timing your attacks?

Because combos in that game arent very long but practicing good neutral and ledge control goes a long way towards getting those wins in that game.

>Wish I could get into smash, I will be honest, most of the time I shit on smash is because I have to cope with the fact that I'm trash at the game.
really dude?
I legit got into it after the only other smash game I played was brawl and n64 years ago.

Just get short hopping into your muscle memory and learn all your characters moves, and get good at neutral, just spam online with your character.

If you have a local try and do ranbats there becaus you might have some pros help you, that’s how I got in

I think its mostly because I'm more of a close combat execution kind of guy, I always know my most optimal combos, how to convert into them from punishes, etc.

But in terms of neutral I just suck ass. I really like smash but damn I'm bad at neutral.

Because fighting games are made by japs and japs can't into netcode or too cheap to buy servers all over the world.

by letting you mash button to awesome so you don't feel bad when mr Zoner plays keepaway with your ass
youtube.com/watch?v=w0WetHkYVtw

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Are you retarded?

I enjoy Tekken 7.

>It's another "we pretend GGPO is magic" episode

Fighting games are the only one's where it's extremly noticible. If you disconnected from an RTS/MOBA/Shooter for five seconds, it would have very little impact unless it struck at the worst time. A small input delay would be unnoticible most of the time; until you build your game around performing a tight series of complicated inputs in a narrow time window. And one missed input can mean half your health bar.

name one (1) fighting game that has better netcode than KI

Because Japanese people make 90% of fighting games and the Japanese will NEVER EVER make good netcode

Auto combos are good as long as they are not the best way to do damage.

Try to fight someone that has actual experience and is beyond the amateur phase on DBFZ by only using autocombos and you'll see what I mean.

Stop playing anime games and actually try to learn your neutral then.

how did you know I only play anime fighting games?

I wonder how that guy feels having his sperg out become the classic scrub example everyone posts when it comes to salt in fighting games.

nihon pride isn't free. the tree of seventy resource bars is gotta be litterd with the blood of western internet warriors. Tony Cannon aka "tony Cannot" is not on my dev team, he is worst-coast nigger and probably communist as well. DAISUKE ishiwatari not "i suck you as you WI-FI me", ok. duel one lets rock.
for sound

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It would be nice to have a larger experience pool than the 12 blokes who booted it up once.

what's wrong with keyboard?

>western fightning games
Lol

reminder that Riot said we will get a teaser for their new game on the 10th anniversary of League's release (october 27), and that we now know the game is confirmed to be a fighting game.

why wont hiro already just remove /wsg/ and allow webm with sound.

Are they any other fighting games with an emphasis on movement and momentum other than smash/smash clones? I like the idea and concept of fighting games but the super strict movement (set movement speeds, set jump angles and height/distances, having jump be up etc) have always just felt off to me. Not saying its bad or doesnt work, just I dont like it

Have you tried SC6?

most FGs you can’t use them because you can’t use them on console.

Melty is special since the tournaments and locals always use PC since the only console port is PS2. But also it’s because inputs might be missed by hitting other keys, there really is no different in using it other than a mixbox or hitbox other than having a 0.0001 second delay since the fight stick PCBs are made for fighting games.

nothing, just use keyboard
no one plays melty on cab

>Why can't companies allow people with ethernet cable connection to decide if they want to only be matched with other people that have wired connection?
Because then the game would be dead and anyone that isn't a try-hard autist will have no interest in buying or playing it

I'm curious whether it will be a League fighting game or use entirely new characters.

why the fuck is the file size limit still a thing

Is that soul calibur? I dont think I've ever played a 3D fighting game outside of the gamecube version of SCII years ago

On one hand it makes all the sense in the world to use league's IP for it.
On the other hand, Riot games are known for being retarded so there's still the posibility of it being a brand new IP.

There are plenty of them that give you freedom of movement like they were platformers but by definition you'd probably consider them smash clones. Which is silly because it's kind of like calling all 2d fighting games SF2 clones.

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>inputs might be missed by hitting other keys
use a PS/2 port keyboard with no rollover issues. and the best part is the delay is 0 because PS/2 literally tells the computer to stop whatever it's doing, look at it's inputs, then do what needs to be done

game? Looks fun

Can i use a MIDI keyboard?

Sorry, when I say smash clones I mean like rivals of aether which is pretty blatantly intended to be melee with some slightly different mechanics. I'm open to other platform fighters

Well they have invested a shit load of money into developing the IP and universe, I'm pretty sure the most retarded of retards move they can do is to not se it. And between tencent and higher ups not wanting to dirty their names with a failed project, we can be 100% sure it will be in the runeterra universe.

It will probably have couple of original characters for the game, and also knowing how many times they have tried to bring lore only characters into the game to just failt attempting to do so, it would be amazing to see people like Count Du Couteau, or missfortune's right hand.

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Roof Rage. Pretty fun with great tunes but unfortunately dead online.

everyone goes through this phase. Only the weak get stuck in it.

sajam was always my favorite sf4 caster
didn't realize he's blowing up on youtube thats excellent

>simplified execution
You blew it. Also characters will all look like shit just like everyone in League, so I can't imagine why I would be excited about cosmetics. Fuck, how much of a cockucker do you have to be about the opportunity to buy stupid looking cosmetics?

Looks tight. Gonna try it.

Brawlhalla then. It's got three jumps plus a special move jump and a directional dodge as well as infinite wall climb/cling so it's basically designed for you to never fall in a pit unless you're retarded or get spiked. There's lots of freedom of movement there but unfortunately because it's geared towards casuals you don't get stuff like conservation of momentum and I think no short hops either.

one button supers will not kill the game, there are still combos.

>dolphin netplay
>created by a bunch of smelly smash kids in their basements
>better than all of japan
how do they do it?

We literally know nothing about the game yet other than it exists

Fucking this. I hate that bullshit excuse. Dumb japs think SFV is using ggpo so they're probably scared of it. Capcom has fucked us. At least NRS knows how important netcode is. I don't like NRS games but online has NEVER been an issue with them once they fucked with ggpo.

we can assume it has one button supers since they are going to use rising thunder as the skeleton of the game.

The fact that you forget that other games exist and they don't use it. I hate how many dead games exist because they used shit tier netcode that makes the game run in slow motion under some cirmcumstances. The steam releases of every snk game is fucking basically unplayable.
Wanna play unlimited match with your bro? Too fucking bad because it's going to run like shit online.

He was sort of right with Chel being stupidly unapproachable when air fireballing right. You just learned the point in the jump arc to shoot and you were never punishable because you were already jumping back to that point in the arc and firing again.

Capcom literally already bought the netcode from GGPO. It's what they reworked for use in SF4 and, presumably, SFV, judging by all that crazy teleporting that goes on in high latency matches.

skullgirls has some of the best netcode and it's an indie game

>question was asked which games use GGPO
>name some of them that i remember
>user laughs because i didn't name any non-GGPO games when asked about GGPO games
what are you smoking? i want some of that

Then why the fuck was the netcode coded by one possibly Korean qt.

SF4 doesn't use ggpo. SFV doesn't use ggpo. SFV uses some bullshit they hacked together. They did use it in 3rd strike online edition but they fucked that port up where it has input delay even offline so almost everyone dropped it faster than the ports of mvc2 on ps2 and xbox

Oh boy, can't wait to see Riot innovate in the field of massive casualization!

What trash mechanics to even le field can we expect? My take:
>auto-combos
>one button specials
>revenge bar
>-100% damage scaling on anything longer than 4 links
>meaty protection
>automatic blocking on cross-ups
>team based, so kids can lay blame on their trash team for holding them back

>they are going to use rising thunder as the skeleton of the game.
But we don't know this either. We just know that they're using the Rising Thunder devs to work on it. There's no point in speculating until we get more solid information.

>set movement speeds, set jump angles and height/distances
Could you elaborate more on what you're looking for because don't these things apply to Smash too? Generally I'd say airdashers are pretty good on movement.

What they bought was a license. They don't own GGPO outright. I would assume the guy was charging the right amount for it, which was more than they wanted to pay.

They bought the license, studied the code and then made their own version. It's *technically* not GGPO but it uses a different means of achieving the same rollback algorithm.

and it will still be more fun to play.

lolbabs will defend it that's for sure

Capcom didn't use ggpo for 3S: online, Iron galaxy did. You know, the guys who went on to fix KI which is known for good fucking netcode that I could play some dudes in Europe pretty well.

>>free to play
>>simplify execution
>a good thing

Basically it comes down to corporate bull-headedness or just plain obliviousness/a lack of talent in japan knowing what the fuck rollback actually even is or how to implement it.

Well those same people also did the netcode for mvc2 and that was fucking good netcode for the time.

Shame about what happened with 3's netcodes.

Netcode is literally the excuse for shit players..

tl;dr git gud

t. wi-fi warrior

Glad this is getting a bit more traction lately.
But i think a big part of it is just wifi warriors. So nothing much will change until wifi technology gets updated in the next few years.

Even in melty playing on wifi will get people to complain.

I remember playing Soku with Yea Forums years ago and the rollcaster for it was so good, I could play with SA monkeys, Ameriburgers and Europoors just fine, and the rollcaster was made by a fan.

doesn't jive let you know if the oponent has wired connection? why can't we get the option to filter people on wifi?

free to play is definitely a plus as long as the match making system allows you to filter out the laggers

Sa"Rollback is objectively superior to delay"jam's opinion on this matter is useless.

They won't be able to. That's why some fighting game players hope the game is actually good along with being F2P/pay for skins. If the game is actually good, everyone, excluding the initial Riot cocksuckers, will flock to it regardless of whether or not they drop the other games they play. When everyone flocks to it because of good netcode/gameplay/content, it should light a fire under the other fighting game devs' asses. Because for some fucking reason, fighting games are now early access games in terms of quality and content.

So...mostly western games?

So is it just ignorance of GGPO from the Jap dev community or willful spite, as usual?

probably both

not true, Street fighter and tekken will be street fighter and tekken, even with fucking light year better net code people will play these games more than whatever Riot will shit.

it will also be casualized as fuck even with tony cannon in the lead, Tencent will wire their limbs into making it beginner friendly.

It's simple, fighting games are a console genre and console users are always on wifi.

Japs can't program for shit and won't attempt to progress their tech.

They still use delay based netcode FFS

>fighting games are a console genre

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Netcode turned me off of fighting games forever. It was novel playing SF4 online since it was the first online SF game, but when SF5 came around it kept matching me with spics, I had to quit. And I refuse to drive to locals.

>More people will play SF/Tekken than one from the company that made one of the biggest games in the world right now
???????????

shut the fuck up Zoomer don't you have a game to play with other 9 retards?

The problem isn’t the code part, it’s the net part. The fighting game genre is built around ultra fast inputs and reaction times and it’s virtually impossible to design around, outside of giving your game a buffer everywhere, which people complain about immediately.

they are now, arcades in the US are basically all dead and are close to dying in Japan and Korea too. Even a lot of the FGC "arcades" in the US are just venues with console setups

Video games should deny retards using wifi on their consoles (or in some bizarrely retarded instance on PC) from playing online with a simple error message
>Plug a fucking ethernet cable in, dipshit

Yep, people will naturally play the big names in fighting games if they want to play the genre.

Chinks aren't people.

>OH NO I GOT PROVEN WRONG SO I HAVE TO CALL THEM A ZOOMER
Fuck off you troglodyte. You can't even form a believable argument.

You forgot
>Solid waifu potential

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kys games gonna be casual trash

>Love playing Fighting games with my friends
>We've portforwarded and such so we can host direct connections so we can play games with as little lag as possible
>Works great for all sorts of indie fighting games with shoestring budgets, usually get 2 or 3 delay
>Try playing Guilty Gear, one of the highest budget anime fighters on PC
>The devs refuse to allow direct connections because they seem to believe we are unable to port forward
>Get 9+ delay with my west coast friend even though we normally get 3-4 because of their shitty relay system

No wonder no one plays this shit on PC anymore.

>updated HD models and updated VAs for old waifus like kat and Annie

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This isn't even the video he linked but I still know which guy you are talking about

You know something is wrong when the left game has significantly worse netcode than the game on the right.

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wait nevermind that was actually the video he linked I'm a retard

GGPO can be programed to do either rollback or delay or both. (See: Skullgirls).

100% willful spite. If they weren't the ones to make it they don't want to use it.

>tfw you'll actually have to play and win matches in order to dress your waifu up in slutwear cosmetics
Will casual cumskulls finally learn to git gud out of necessity?

It's also the better game

Both. Many Japanese devs know nothing of the existence of GGPO until western commentators/pros ask them about it. And those that do know about it willfully ignore it and would instead prefer to spend lots of time and resources to try and develop their own model (like SFV which was and still is fucking trash).

Is Sajam actually a gay? Just curious. He fits the stereotype.

lol

it will all be bought with riot points

netcode is about lying and deciding for the player in advance, it's not compatible with frame perfect games.

I've never lagged on tekken 7

Isn't that how nearly all fucking online game netcode is.

The game on the right is unironically more fun than Xrd and is also hilariously easy to play. The game is full of so much bullshit. Why the fuck does Xrd have such shit netcode? the game is dead as hell because of it too.

The sluttiest costumes should be 20 ranked wins while in silver rank or higher or $59.99 USD plus tip.

Xrd isn't dead. I play it almost every day.

Yes, nearly all FPS games for at least the past 20~ years use the equivalent of a client-server synchronization where each player is acting upon the world as they see it a fraction of a second behind where they see themselves, allowing for the hitboxes and the visible model to align perfectly with one another for everybody.
Blizzard described it as "favor the shooter" which isn't the most accurate, but is succinct in describing it.

For example, you and some other guy are playing on a really shitty server with ~200ms ping each, the guy runs from cover to cover and is exposed for two seconds. You are able to take him down in those two seconds, even if on his screen, he made it around the corner. He gets rolled back to the point you killed him. It is aggravating if you don't understand the way the system works, but it does not actually convey any unfair advantages to either side. The guy was out of cover for two seconds and died within that period, he just didn't get the memo he was shot until half a second later.

GGPO is similar, instead of slowing things down and delaying your input, it lets you act instantly upon the other player as he was however many frames in the past. The system weighs who actually acted first and will roll back the player who gets hit. If there's any desynch, a properly set up system will roll both players back (in SFV's case near launch, its own rollback fails horribly at tracking players movement, constantly performing tiny rollbacks and eating inputs). GGPO can also use a hybrid system with rollback and delay to minimize the effect of both.

One major advantage of most other games like an FPS is that the rollbacks can be done on a per-client basis, it can can work with approximations and interpolation. The entire server does not need to be rolled back, only individuals. The same can't be said for fighting games which require frame perfect precision, rollbacks would affect both players constantly, the system needs more finesse.