Why doesn't Generation Z play RTS games?

Gen Z is being born mid 90's and later right?

I am 1996 and I have played a few RTSs, my favorite ones growing up were Age of Mythology, Stronghold and CC Generals. I've dropped it around after Generals, at that time I discovered Warcraft 3, played Reign of Chaos some and dropped it RIGHT before Dota became a thing. I've actually played something Dota-like for the first time with League of Legends, but I digress.

I think the only logical explanation is that, well, they simply stopped making them. Blizzard's focus shifted to World of Wacraft, EA sucked CC fucking dry, Age of Empires just sort of disappeared. Warhammer and Total War games feel like only older IPs still on the table.

Besides obvious things like , there's also one other reason I believe needs to mention: RTSs require a lot of skill. Even at what was my peak, when I REALLY wanted to get good at Age of Mythology, I still believe myself to have sucked massive schlong. I could beat my cousins and friends IRL, but replaying the re-released version and trying multiplayer I just sucked all of the dick. RTSs need quick reflection to stay competitive and I am a slow retarded shit.

So if you noticed that two of my favorite RTSs were Age of Mythology and Stronghol, it was more due to the fact that they were insanely comfy. I really should get myself into Settlers series, it seems like something I'd enjoy. And maybe Tropico.

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I'd tell you that it's from the weak visual feedback inherent to the genre being so zoomed out, but MOBAs are still alive & kicking, so I dont know.
On a whim i'm gonna say no trendy hip e-celebs is playing them so they don't care. They'd flock anything if their e-celebs told them so

>AoM
Good choice. For me it was that and Rise of Nations. Never played Age of Empires or Stronghold, but played all of the C&C games with Tiberian Sun being my favorite for its aesthetics. Starting to play Supreme Commander and I love the sheer scale, but don't care for optimizing base construction or any high-level homework.

I prefer action games not clicking ones. my dad did play starcraft though.

They require skill and focus

They can't blame anyone but themselves for losing

No good Age of Empires/Mythologies type games anymore.

but i do play CoH 1

Oh, and I also forgot to mention, this was one of my favorites when it came out. It was a hybrid between Dune's base building type of strategy games and Total War world map and it was awesome, I honestly wish someone would already take that idea and go with it beyond Lord of the Rings. Very underrated movie license game, Lord of the Rings overall has this weird way overlook goldmine of surprisingly decent games and Battle for Middle-Earth series is the most undeservedly forgotten.

It's weird how EA specifically wanted to distance itself from movie licensed games, whereas movie licensed games for some time were their best stuff (Lord of the Rings games, Harry Potter games).

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>RTSs need quick reflection to stay competitive
competition ruined them. SC2 was soulless because they made it to be eSports.
>they were insanely comfy
this is where its at.
devs should make games that can be competitive if the players want to, but they need to be comfy to play first and foremost.
RTS are always the best when everyone is just dicking around.

Tactical launch detected

I was born in 95. RTS and RTT are my fav genres

too retarded to play

I do, I'm not very good at them though so I just play campaign modes or against bots

Very high stress genre
I play videogames to relax, not ultra focus for 30 minutes straight while juggling a ton of things at once and worrying about what the opponent is doing behind the fog
Multiplayer RTS is the opposite of fun
Singleplayer is fine, I revisit RA2 and AOE2 every year or so

this

>history doesn't matter, future matters peace and love

in the age of only compet e-cancer trash, its too liner with meta build order trash.

Gaming is at an all time high, with the biggest amount of noobs and shitters there has ever been before it.

RTS is one of the most complex genres with a ton of intricacies, meta games, micro, and my balls. People don't want to put up with that shit, they don't want to rely solely on themselves (Hence more team oriented multiplayer games so they can blame their team instead of themselves), they get burnt out after 1 or 2 matches, they don't wan't to go against people better than them, they don't want to learn all the names of every unit, what they do, when and where they are needed, what every hotkey is, blah blah.

They want simple games.

"But but user this isn't true 'cause I like RTS and complex games!"

Listen faggot, there's like 40 million more people than you who don't.

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I bet it's a replay, because at this point ingame 10 minutes of real time are equal to 1 ingame

Because kids only play what their friends play because they don't want to be alone. It's an entire generation that's gonna grow up with fortnite and nothing else

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Because i'm waiting for good DoW remaster or sequel.

Zoomers gravitate to games where it feels good to win but it doesn't feel as bad to lose.
>battle royale
Well there are so many competitors that my chances are low anyway, right? With those odds, my ego is spared when I lose!
>RTS / true fighting game
It's just me and the opponent, I can attribute losses and victories directly to my own competence and should adapt accordingly and continue to practise if I want to succeed.

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Because teenagers want to play minecraft to chill and fortnite or other "competitive" games like league to be competitive in and blame your team if you lose. Do you really think modern zoomers who are still in their teens and browse reddit want to play anything like even warcraft 3?

why not make one with good SP then? I don't want esports bs, I want to spend evening optimizing tactics and cost efficiency while sipping coffee that suddenly got cold.
Back in day everyone played campaigns, THEN they would play skirmish with friends

Not a pure RTS but Total War is getting extremely popular after WH2 and TK

>sitting at computer naked
ok
>with kneesocks on
for what purpose?

She's probably programming.

There isn't a market, because "RTS players" (read: people who want to play simcity with guns) are a niche group that seeks to differentiate itself from the hyper-competitive SC crowd.

But programming socks only help male programmers.

Nobody in Gen Z is going to play a game where single matches can take 40+ minutes.

And before you say "skilled RTS matches can be over in under 5 minutes" remember that zoomers will obviously not be skilled at the games so they won't know what rushing means or how to do it.

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Her feet probably get cold

Who said that isn't a trap

>competitive games are only fun if everyone is as bad at them as I am

It's actually kind of wild how much this one factor has shaped the multiplayer games that are popular this generation. They're all either team v team like mobas or 1vX like battle royales to offer plausible deniability and deflect blame from any one person. Pretty much only fighting games are still keeping it real.

>trap
>she
I think you have the terms trap and tranny confused user. Traps are boys that can convince others they are a girl. Trannies are boys that convince themselves they are a girl.

I don't know.
I was born in 1992 and used to play mostly
>Red alert 2 and 3
>Age of empires 2 and 3
>Supreme commander FA
>Stronghold, all of them
>Cosacks
>Company of heroes
I can't anymore, I can fire up rts and I'll just Alt f4 it an hour later. I don't have patience nor time for long campaigns anymore.
If I play games it's either fast placed shooter like Apex/Quake 3 or autismo central like Arma 3

You can play RTS games where you're guaranteed to win. When I was a kid all I did was play team Starcraft games against the CPU where you did stupid shit like mass sunken push or win by rushing with SCVs/Probes/Drones because the computer was stupid and it was usually something like 6v1.

I thought traps had 'she' as well since they're girls(males)

Team games of SUPCOM is the most patrician form of RTS. I played a game where we played 3v4 while our teammate rushed out Yolona Oss and then we terrorized them with super nukes.

What title was the last hurrah for RTS/RTT titles then?

I usually get into one every 6 months or so and then get destroyed when I try to play online so go back to browsing youtube all day until another grabs my attention.

>can take 40+ minutes
How about dota?

I dunno. CoH2/DoWII?

men of war is still getting new content

nobody even meme plays dota

But isn't that true?

It is but complaining about people getting better at them isn't the answer. What you need are better matchmaking systems.

>Age of Mythology
Sequel when? I want more PROSTAGMA.

I can't figure out how to get Baldies to run at a good speed on Windows 10

Starcraft killed the rts genre

>RTS are always the best when everyone is just dicking around
They are the best when everyone knows how to play them.

I played a lot of sc2 for a while than moved on onto turn based games. Sill, i reinstall sc2 once about every year out of nostalgia and play for a few days, these occasions gave me some new insights. I think the biggest problem is the immense mechanical barrier these games have, you have to be really good to be able to say that you are mostly in control of your army, your economy and all the infrastructure you have on the map, i'd say in sc2 it happens only for the top 1-2% of the playerbase. If you are not there strategy doesn't really play a role in the result of your games. For example the highest i got was diamond league where people can execute build orders, but after me and my opponent sufficiently perturbed each other it still felt like we broke down into two flaying retards. After this point the result of a match depends on who makes a mistake at a crutial moment and is more or less random, like, i look away for 2 seconds to get more supply, than suddenly banelings and it's game over, my opponent misplaces a move command at and i win the game for free in a second. It gets very frustrating when you feel so out of control of the situation, accepting losses is especially hard. In comparison in go or chess or turn based games in general i suppose, when you lose your opponent simply thought farther than you and it doesn't feel random at all. Its way way easier to accept losses and keep playing.

>Dual Gap
Garbage map.

For me, it's planetary annihilation.

Game devs looked at the most successful RTS, Starcraft, and thought what people want are hectic micromanagement and counting APM.

In truth the majority of RTS players want none of that zoomer shit and just want to build comfy bases, build walls and towers and turrets and whatnot and turtle up.

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I guess that's why I always liked Supreme Commander. There's some micro sure, but most of it is macro and strategy.

When I started playing it I really had to get those bad habits from SC out of me.

Let's be real, there hasn't been a good rts game released in the past 5 years
Rereleases don't count

Has there been a good one since Supreme Commander?

RTS is dead,long live RTT

Anyone find it kinda hilarious how hard Lucasarts had to stretch Star wars to make it fit the AoE2 style?
>Oh they're not gathering wood, they're gathering... Carbon!
>But why are battle droids gathering food?
>...

What game??

BIofuel.

rts games are ugly to look at and generally not fun

No, gen Z is 98 and later.
If you grew up around the millenial you are a millenial, so 88-96 or something.

Marketing is a big factor, I think. I don't often see even mid-level RTS games get that much publicity or dedicated ad drive. Steel Division 2 was a victim of that, to give a recent example

Are you serious?

Yes
Call me retarded all you want, but i still want to know

Only played age of Empire. I know it's not rts but the Civilisation games are all right. 1999 kid

Supreme Commander

They don't play them YET. Besides, RTS is shit. 4x and grand is where it's at.

Supreme Commander. The first one. The second one didn't go too well with most people.

Oh man, those unit icons ruin so much of that aesthetics of supcom. I know it would be unplayable without them but still. Is it possible to reconcile infinite zoom with not staring at icons 90% of the time?

i was born in 1988 and the only RTS i ever played was Age of Empires 2. I still don't know why did me and my friends played that game AND NOT ANOTHER ONE.

i get that aoe2 was good, and had cool cheat codes. But neither of my friends played another rts

Battle for middle earth is in IP limbo because warner bros got the right for all LOTR related videogames.
It's not that EA doesn't want anything to do with Tolkien's shit it's that IP laws make them unnable to publish their old LOTR games

Because there aren't any with interesting settings/designs.
I would play an anime RTS

It's kinda weird that you managed to miss the late 90s RTS boom. Then again, I've managed to skip the entire battle royale thing so far. I guess it happens.

That was a better AoE2 than AoE2 fight me.

youtu.be/_tWp4ynONnQ?t=5820

Seton's Clutch is one of the most fun maps. Unfortunately, the modified AIs that are still maintined don't really play it too well.

Always found it odd that,Japan never got in to RTS or Tycoon games despite Starcraft, Age of Empires and Sim City having a huge following in Japan.

RTS games where turtling up is a viable strategy with no counters are absolute cancer if you actually want to play them against people. It'd be like playing AoE2 without trebs. Only people that don't play the games want games that focus on "comfy bases".

they're too hard for most people. I got really into RTS games with Brood War, and used to follow the pro scene with replay packs and write ups(vods didn't really exist back then)
I remember in high school(mid 2000s) we had LAN groups and I ruined that genre for everyone
>game night is Starcraft, destroy everyone
>game night is WC3, destroy everyone
>game night is AOE 2, destroy everyone
Eventually we moved on to Halo 2 and stuff and stopped playing rts games altogether. At my very best I was probably a C- Starcraft player too lol. 99% of the rts players back then just wanted to turtle and then a-move

this
i was excited for the They Are Billions campaigns

all they fucking did was handcraft the maps, make some customary "control a few units" levels, and tweak how research works. otherwise it's just the basic survival shit again

the only fucking thing SC2 did right was the base gameplay of the campaign. It was fun as shit, rarely got stale, and was a far cry from your standard 1v1 match. Yes, the story was fucking garbage and a lot of the maps could be easily solved by massing units and just a-moving, but it fucking entertained me

nobody wants to entertain, they just want to get their cut of those ESPAWRTS BUXXX

Jew serious?
>I was diagnosed with ADHD
>I play SCII, WC3 AoE*

For what is worth, I dont think ADHD is a disorder.
Specially if being a faggot isn't.

RTS is thousands fold more fast-paced than MOBAs, so ADHD isn't the asnwer.I think the 1v1 nature of RTS scares the zoomer cause if he loses he can't blame it on his teammates.

>get a new PC
>first game i download and play is BFME2
i don't know why i do this but it's a compulsion i cannot break. I'll pick one of the 3 campaigns, play through it, do some random skirmishes, a war for the ring or two, and then uninstall it

half dozen times already i've done this, and that doesn't touch on the insane amount of time i dropped on the game when it released. I haven't played BFME1 since 2 released but i must have really fucking liked it if i was so spurred into buying 2 as soon as possible. i'm scared to play it because it will fucking consume too much time if it's half as good as i recall

adhd is a meme for shit parents to justify having uncontrolled children
>it's not that i don't discipline, it's that i found a doctor who told me he's incapable of being disciplined

If you like settlers, try Cultures. its a copy of settlers (3 i think) but its much comfier

>only one that thinks it's not a disorder, has it himself
Now please stop yelling and running around, adults are talking here

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But I do, my fav is Warcraft 3 + expansion, my first rts was Green Army men RTS

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Nah ADHD is real enough to be seen on an MRI scan. Anecdotally speaking, my youth would be a hundred times less fucked up if I was diagnosed as a kid rather then when I was an adult.

Company of heroes 2 suck. It feels like it was made just for the competitive scene

Supreme Commander Forged Alliance, the clip is from a 2v6:

youtube.com/watch?v=zaYEq2EbGVE

>As soon as people catch on, start labelling it as autism
>Make sure to REALLY point out when your kid misbehaves too!
>"oh johnny see this particular method of acting out is only because of your AUTISM, i saw so online and dr. quack confirmed it."
>"please do this to increasing levels of intensity until you find the point where i simply cannot stand it, and proceed to do it at just below that level for the rest of my life"

This is why the most 'caring', 'kind', people have the absolute most monstrous undeveloped mong children. Their trigger point is further off so the kid has to turn things to 11 to get the reaction they're looking for.

> build comfy bases
spotted the conflict aversion autist
don't play battle games if you want comfy

Not Gen Z, but while I like some RTS games, I'm fucking shit at them. The only person I play with is worse then me at them too and demands we play together against AI because he knows that.

>playing dual gap

I think it was more like a DLC front. The commander system really says it all with that game, especially when compared to the first game

Men of War is pretty good despite all the lazy re-releases (god damn it annoys me how little they do with such a good core concept), CoH II ultimately turned out to be good despite being initially buried under layers of bad decisions, and Wargame gets my cold war boner going hard despite the fact that Eugen is shit at balancing stuff. But yea, all of those are somewhat flawed in one way or other.

crazy thing is theres a fuck ton of casuals playing those mobile only """""RTS"""""" games, I feel like that's where a lot of those people went leaving PC behind for an inferior, microtransaction riddles, cartoony alternative

>kid behaving differently shows up differently on an MRI
smoking makes things look different, doesn't mean i was fucking born with it. those kids are lacking something in their upbringing that the typical human gets in droves

IMO, and i've seen it put to practice where i worked, there are scant few things that can't be overcome with conditioning and upbringing

No one has ADHD anymore though, it's always ADD these days

When the main decider on who wins is APM its no longer a strategy game but a clicking simulator. By this definition SC2 isnt an RTS because the strategy component is secondary, however something like Dota 2 could be considered an RTS due to the fact that macro has much higher impact on the match than in traditional RTS.

You fags may not like the truth but the reason why traditional RTS lost its popularity to grand strategy and mobas is the fact that it delegated the strategy aspects to a footnote. Mobas/4x etc take much more thinking regarding the macro, ergo people interested in strategy flocked to those games.

Only APM autists play modern RTS anymore.

iirc it had some nasty performance issues too, or it lacked support for some hardware

i put most of CoH2 out of my mind, the first game still holds up

Literally backwards, ADD was removed from the DSM and is no longer an official diagnosis

Unironically this. RTS games require undivided attention and mental investment, skills that the average zoomer who games while listening to podcasts or watching streamers on their phones has never developed. To someone who is used to doing two things (poorly) at once, having only one thing to focus on feels boring, and coupling that with the frustration of needing to actually develop the ability to focus on something, a lot of them experience a mindset barrier to playing and enjoying the genre as a whole.

>This game is fun
>I'll check out the online
>Instead of learning the game intuitively, the winning strategy is to memorize a build order and execute it the fastest

Oh...

Partially true but depends on the game.

I found Supcom to be much less enjoyable and more stressful than AOE2, though AOE2 requires much more juggling and micro.

I play exclusively 1 v 1 in both. AOE2 is not relaxing but it's not particularly stressful to me.

Because RTS games released these days are trying to do the online competitive esports thing and that never works out.
People play online games to play with their friends and the main mode of rts is 1v1 autism no normal person has interest in.

Depends if the game allows it, but on higher levels of play intuition and imagination plays a significant role, just like in life.

>Playing this 1v1 with my dad
>He can't beat me
He is getting old and slow

How are you supposed to make an RTS game that doesn't have an optimal build order?

>all they fucking did was handcraft the maps, make some customary "control a few units" levels, and tweak how research works. otherwise it's just the basic survival shit again
what did you expect?

you're an idiot. Lets forget SC2 for a second and look at AOE2. Someone with an APM 5x that of their opponent in the first 3 minutes is using their scout to look around the map, claim sheep, send the sheep back, figure out where you're going to set up choke points, etc etc. That's not just clicking for the sake of clicking, it's being active in developing their strategy for the rest of the game. You sound like an old nr20min faggot that just wants to turtle the whole game

agreed, I hated 2 when it first came out, installed 1 a few months ago for some comp stomps, still a lot of fun

All you niggers want are turtling base builders with no actual aggression except for when it comes time to build the death ball but if someone makes a game like that I guarantee you you'd all fucking hate it. Turtling in an RTS is a bad strategy by design for a reason.

RTS is a primarily western genre like FPS games and WEST BAD

Guys wait, what about an RTS Battle Royale

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yeah cause nobody makes FPS games anymore

C&C Sole Survivor

Because they have 5 seconds attention span.

Skill-based games have largely fallen out of favor with modern audiences. When you lose in RTS, fighting games, or arena shooters, you have to come to terms with your own mediocrity before you can start improving. For most people nowadays, they hate that feeling of being bad or self-improvement in an entertainment medium which is supposed to be "fun".

Look at modern games. They're all balanced through:
>Coordination - which consists of pushing buttons within a five second window with your teammates to push forward
>Rock-paper-scissors balancing - instead of outplaying you, I'll just play a character who's your hard counter
>Dilution - reduce the impact of individual skill on a match and force teams, so when you lose, you can blame teammates, but if you win, you can credit yourself

RTS, FTG, and fast paced shooters have all fallen by the wayside. Video games are no longer played and designed by people passionate about them, but by people who want that feeling of being skilled and badass.

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>1v1 is the only type of game that requires skill

Would you play a Fortnite RTS Yea Forums?

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You can get like high diamond or whatever with shit apm. im like 80-90 and have beaten a master player before because of clever strategy.

This. I'm not sure there has been a successful new RTS since COH2

Since when did I mention anything about 1v1? There are ways to promote individual skill even in a team-based environment, but modern designers do their best to quash that down.
Arena shooters and RTS have team-based modes which still allow skilled players to win the game. Fighting games are inherently 1v1, but that's just how the genre works.

>You can get like high diamond or whatever with shit apm
yeah, by managing your economy properly, which is still just as braindead

mobas have a high skill requirement

>Everyone just remakes SC/WC with a new coat of paint and a few minuscule tweaks any time they put out a new rts
>nobody buys it because its the same boring shit everyone owns already
>why don't people buy rts games anymore???

Here's hoping they don't manage to fuck up Homeworld 3 somehow.

>C&C Sole Survivor
That wasn't an RTS

Keep saying that to yourself little zoom zoom

Don't kid ourselves. Most people just wanted to dick around when RTS were at their peak. Two examples:
For AoE2, most people fooled around with mods and played Black Forest, which is a map that let you build a stupidly large army. Now people are playing "X nothing" maps, aka, forced no rush maps with gimmicks.
For SC most people where playing UMS maps which are pretty much minigames of all kind.

It's natural that people left RTS when most companies decided that e-sportfags were their target audience.

nice argument

Because they're garbage. It's all about maximizing clicks per minute and memorizing build orders - strategy has no place at the speed they play.

"dicking around" is not a soild foundation on which to build a genre
people who want to dick around get bored of games very quickly

I agree, though I think it also has much to do with the social aspect of multiplayer.
People play multi with their friends and that's where most of their fun comes from.
Compared to those people those who play for the gameplay and the satisfaction of being good are a tiny minority.
A game focussed on 1v1 is doomed from the start from popularity perspective.

Hasn't been a good RTS for fucking years. Companies decided that nobody cared about RTS games not players

I dunno. What's the setting like? Does it actually have factions? I thought it was just random shit like thanos dancing.

zero-l is the best rts and its free.

Depends on how much potential the game has. Gmod was literally a game made of nothing but dicking around.

>got supcom from sale recently
>floaty unresponsive controls
>focus on turtling
>takes ages for engagements to start
>units are too slow to exploit a breakthrough
>meta is rushing gunship to snipe comms
>need to spam a dozen factories at the beginning to flood the map
This fucking game is trash, it's the worst "cult" rts I've played

Having worked in a pediatrics office, there's a whole checklist and multiple surveys to diagnose adhd, and a lot of times you can tell that the parent has it too. Generally its teachers that push for a diagnosis more than parents.

well thats different, that's a creative game

AOEIIfags gatekeeping slower pace RTS games.

SC2 for killing fast paced RTS games by making them APM spam fest.

cause gookclick

Sucks that this genre died. Even if they were toned down, they should've brought RTSs to consoles last gen. People kept saying "but keyboards! keyboards! keyboards!" back then and I knew it was fucking dumb. Now a generation raised on consoles don't give a fuck about RTS games.

Well AoE2 is still a thing and SC is way more popular than SC2.

The problem here is not competition. The problem starts when companies decide to remove mods/editing tools because they can only focus on e-sportfags. SC2 started as a pure competitive RTS and look how it ended.

...

>they should've brought RTSs to consoles
are you dumb

SC2 has an editor

I'm a literal zoomer (2000)
It isnt really a type of game that is popular now
Look at what games are popular, it was CS for awhile, then it shifted on to the battle royale meme and now it might go to something else
A lot of people started playing games much more in depth around 2013 (my generation). They skipped out on RTS completely by that stage. A lot of them will ask, why would I want to play old games lmao fuck off nigger. Unless you were povvo tier (me), you would have had very little exposure to it all.
At least some passion projects show up now and then, latest of which being homeworld 3.

>4-8 players spawn at random points in an asymmetrical map kinda like civ
>having to vary up build choices depending on terrain in your corner of the map
mite b cool

FORCED MEME COCK SUCKERS

You can learn something from the OP as he used the right term and is not tool

>RTSs on console

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zoomers like to be able to blame their losses and poor moves on teams, rather than accepting their own faults and learning from them in order to progress

basically, the ladder is too high

Born in 92 and was never able to enjoy public RTS lobbies. RTT games such as World in Conflict or whatever were fine though. I want to build up a large amount of forces and watch them duke it out for supremacy but it always seemed like everyone else just wants to mass produce the cheapest units as fast as possible and bum rush bases within the first ten to twenty minutes.

It'd be worth it just for the diplomacy/backstabs that'd happen. Also imagine it also having a shrinking map so you'd constantly have to rebuild your military production buildings and find new resources closer to the center. Turtling would get you killed unless you manage to turtle right at the center, but that's where everyone is going to go...

RTS died when they started dropping as many random aspects of game mechanics as possible to appease esport fags. No random maps, no damage ranges for hits, ranged attacks are 100% accurate, nothing that can get in the way of getting optimal build order going every match and using the same strategy to win a rocks paper scissors balance system everyone loves making. There's nothing to compensate for in terms of on the fly decision making outside of unit micro or seeing if its early enough to shift your build to counter your enemy's strategy if you scout them out and figure out what they're doing. No need to try and explore the map because everything is in a set place so you'll never be able to stumble across good strategic locations with an unexpected military or economic advantage for you to get a leg up because its not "balanced". Most any fight that happens is decided before the first blow is struck because of how raw and direct unit stats are unless there's shenanigans like ranged kiting that throw a few wrenches into the gears. Everything must be straightforward so I don't have to think after I watch some tutorials on how to maximize my build orders since every other aspect of the game is set so the deciding factors boil down to who picked the dominant strategy from the round start vs who has more balls to make pushes when the other player doesn't want you to.

Dumb. You can't even play scripted single player maps directly. You have to open de editor, load the map and start the map. For multiplayer they removed the lobby system and changed it for a popularity system which killed any attempt of making new ums maps, then years later they added the Arcade system but it was too late.

Because modern RTS are more focused on being over tuned, competitive garbage, instead of just being good, fun games.

I personally like RTS games a lot but 1v1 are stressful.
I enjoy matches but, win or lose, I'll usually stop playing after a couple ones.
Not sure why desu

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I like playing RTS games against the CPU. It's pretty comfy.

Generation Z prefers Battle Royale games, which are more immersive.

Are we even playing the same game? Turtling is like the worst strategy you can do in SupCom.

>RTS died when they started dropping as many random aspects of game mechanics as possible to appease esport fags. No random maps, no damage ranges for hits, ranged attacks are 100% accurate, nothing that can get in the way of getting optimal build order going every match and using the same strategy to win a rocks paper scissors balance system everyone loves making.

FUCKING THIS

Tourneyfags/e-sports fags ruined RTS, everything had to be focused on APM and executing perfect build strategy, everyone tried to copy Starcraft thinking thats what the optimal RTS was supposed to be like. Every RTS started to feel and play the same afterwards, and interest waned

At least theres games like Men of War still that get it thoughts its more RTT than RTS

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Also I have to add """""arena"""""" style maps are the biggest crocks of shit to hit RTS games

Pandering to e-sports fags was a mistake

because RTS games suck
They're hypertuned e-sports garbage and the skill floor is really high even compared to shooters like quake
Even when they aren't e-sports garbage they aren't fun to fuck around in because the economy bullshit gets in the way of smashing grunts against eachother
They've always been a niche game anyway, the playerbase is probably the same size it was 10 years ago

the only rts game I ever enjoyed was command and conquer: generals. one day I looked for more like them. needless to say I was dissapointed by modern titles

This, I never play against other people, too stressful. I just wish RTS AI could improve instead of mostly relying on straight up cheating to present a challenge.

AOE2 has lots of those stuff. Maybe that's why watching competitive AOE2 is x10 more fun than watching competitive SC.

maybe not a complete turtle but I see many people just hold "their" side of the map and then spam PDs, Shields, missiles, arty and air and it slows the game down even more then normal.
The campaign made me want to kill myself too. RTS aren't meant to be this slow an uneventful

>focus on turtling is blatantly untrue, you'll get bodied in any 1v1
>takes ages to start engagements, also untrue, scouts are fast and harassment begins almost immediately at t1. In fact, most games don't get past t2
>gunships not hard countered with t1 AA
>needs a dozen factories to do anything, by the time you've spent the resources to build a dozen factories there's scouts picking off your builders, gunships at your mass extractors, and arty knocking at your door which, by the way, have longer range than your turrets

This is how I know you're absolute trash

I never tried any RTS games because I'm already horrendously slow playing turn-based or real time with pause games, so I always felt like I would just be doomed to be horrible at them because I just wouldn't be able to plan out my strategy quick enough.
Are there any decent RTS games I could try as an intro to the genre, to see if that's true?
Also on another note, everything other anons have been saying about zoomers hating having all the blame on them in a competitive setting is absolutely true, I never liked competitive games in general, and every single one of my friends are the type to immediately jump to blaming every possible thing but themselves when we do play those types of games. The amount of times I've heard my friends yell about their "shit teams" is honestly outrageous. Even my first thoughts tend to go to factors other than myself when I get frustrated.
t. 19 year old

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Shush Boomer,We just didn't grow up with it.

Clearly you don't play the game, as most games are decided with t1 and t2 rushes. Shield turtling/nukes and anything but t2 bomber micro is almost so rare, it's unheard of outside specialized team battles, like 4v4 on Setons

Combat never really felt impactful or fun to me. Not flashy and full of fancy shit, just...It's not that fun for me to watch all that fighting from such a detached distance. Just little blips and bloops of stuff happening.

Fortnite? Me and many other Gen Z'ers grew up with Team Fortress 2 and Minecraft. Alpha's are the ones that are growing up with Fortnite.

company of heroes 1. Decent campaign, not too much micro, destructible environments

something like sc2 with some more variety to the fucking gameplay somehow, did you read my goddamn post you mental midget?

shush forced meme cock sucker

They skipped out on RTS completely by that stage. A lot of them will ask, why would I want to play old games lmao fuck off nigger.
It's a shame really. I hope they can understand to appreciate games older than them. Missing out on classics like C&C, Red Alert, StarCraft, and AoE feels like a sin.

this
there's strategy
and then executing that strategy as fast and efficiently as possible

sheer APM count nonsense is dumb but clicking fast will always be the end result of high level play

The key word in "real time strategy" is strategy. When maps are always the same, meaning economic resources and building placements can always be the same, and eventually more and more moment to moment choices are the same you have less and less actual strategy going on. If there's no variance in the environment there's no variance in the strategy you choose unless its purely reacting to your opponent's strategy. Its not interesting to play or interesting to watch after a certain period of time which is why I find myself getting tired of some games over others. That's not to say its awful, but there's simply less to the game so it dies out faster and a esports crowd is usually the only thing that keeps these kinds of games going especially since new games rarely have any charm to them. Dawn of War is almost a perfect case study of how to make fun, interesting rts games and how to make stale shit that dies after the first month or so of attention wears off from its release.

they do play RTS (Real Tranny Simulators)

Dozen was hyperbole, people do place at least 8 of them in the first 10 minutes tho.
>This is how I know you're absolute trash
You say that but my opinion on SupCom being fucking awful comes from watching top-level replays and casts.
I always try to get a feel for how MP goes before I get into it and just thinking about a match of this fucking slothfest fills me with dread.
Maybe it's the campaign that left me very unimpressed, but every match I've seen goes this way:
>Stalemate for 40 minutes then strat bombers snipe the comm!
>Stalemate for 20 minutes, then gunships snipe the comm!
>Stalemate for 30 minutes, then Tacmissles snipe the comm!
>stalemate for 40 minutes, then unscouted experimental trash one guys base!
>Stalemate for 60+ minutes, then stratbombers snipe the Strategic defence missle silo!
People always say that this game is about being creative but whenever I've watched this replays or casts - that were so boring the commenters even had moments when they checked their phones - literally nothing important happens until some mass of unscouted units snipes the comm.
The only entertainment some of them provides was players being absolutely fucking awful to their teammates in teamchat which, while fun to watch, definitely doesn't makes me want to try the game.

>When maps are always the same, meaning economic resources and building placements can always be the same, and eventually more and more moment to moment choices are the same you have less and less actual strategy going on

Well said.

It just becomes boring when everything plays out the same, when external factors such as environment, map design, resource placement is static and unchanging between rounds, when it basically becomes a speedrun RTS with players focused only on muh meta, muh micro and build orders and everything else has to stay the same

FPS games suffer from this too, when maps are less dynamic so that nothing interferes with the tournyfags autism for sameness and lack of variety and randomness

Anyone played this gem? Feels like it's under everyone's radar in RTS threads.

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>when external factors such as environment, map design, resource placement is static and unchanging between rounds, when it basically becomes a speedrun RTS with players focused only on muh meta, muh micro and build orders and everything else has to stay the same
I dunno, Relic RTS games don't and couldn't randomize the maps for obvious reason but people still love them

>wanting random elements in a game
>that artillery unit that you spent a metric fuckton of money on missed its shot and now is getting bombarded by tank shells

I bet you also defend Team Fortress 2 and it's bullshit random crits.

I agree.

Map variety, reasonable faction asymmetry, options for multiple starting strats. DoW, CoH, SupCom, WC3 and TA are gud examples. Even games like Homeworld and AoE with mostly similar factions can have organic gameplay if the average match opens up after the early game. The main thing that leads to the SC syndrome of rigid structure is poor balancing of economy and tech vs. gameplay against your opponent's actions that forces you through specific steps well into the game with little room for recovery.

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hopefully because they arent pmaying video games at all. wish I never played an rts

you know what's funny? Even if you got your way you still wouldn't play RTS games. Randomized maps would just shift the meta so that scouting has a much larger emphasis. Early game APM, the Zoomers worst nightmare, would mean even more than it would than in the static maps that all popular RTS games have.
You'd get btfo even worse than you already do

The true patrician choice is static maps with different weather effects and season palettes.

That looks really cool, name?

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Company of Heroes did this pretty well I thought

i don't know, i never really tried
you got some recommendations?

I prefer action games, not button mashing ones.

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Casuals hate dota, also you can't forfeit.

LeL is way less punishing and demanding.

The genre stagnated, plain and simple
No innovation for literal decades

RTS games used to have a single player campaign that basically taught you how to play and had a fun story component too. Now they're purely focused on competitive versus and to nobody's surprise the vast majority of people that played the games in the past weren't interested in the competitive versus aspect.

It's sad because unlike say, fighting games, where the tutorial is almost always tedious and boring no matter how helpful it is, you can easily craft a campaign that slowly teaches you the basics in a fun way in an RTS. Lock which units/techs you can use and slowly reveal them as the missions go by, make CPU opponents use strategies that are obviously counterable by the unit you're trying to teach the player how to use, that sort of thing.

SD2 was also a bad game for beginners. Didn't have any kind of tutorial lol

>RTS games used to have a single player campaign that basically taught you how to play and had a fun story component too.
>you can easily craft a campaign that slowly teaches you the basics in a fun way in an RTS

name one rts where the tutorial and mission progression taught you to competently play MP meta

pro-tip: you cant

>le boomer
>le zoomer
>boom boom boom I want you in my room
>Mazda: What do you drive?
Don't you guys get tired of sounding like retards?

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i was born in 98' and DoW 1 & 2 are easily some of my favorite games of all time.

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Not what I mean by random, not RNG shit like that, but proper ballistics, proper weapon behavior, and elements of randomness like jamming, or dud rounds for more unpredictability and variety like real warfare, not everything all working perfectly and aiming perfectly 100% of the time

>Randomized maps would just shift the meta so that scouting has a much larger emphasis.

Thats exactly what I want, only not on just your average cookie cutter RTS map, I'm talking a massive map, with randomized spawns, scouting does not just get a higher emphasis it becomes essential, and you have to balance early game unit production between building scouts or resource collection and scouting

Thats what I want to see in an RTS game, something other than the cliche, traditional map structure with 4 corners, something wide open and vast leading to slower but more open and unpredictable games, where you don't always know where your enemy is from the start, and the map is so large that it will take a while for scouts to locate them even.

So far no one has really made an open world land RTS like this, with vast scale, realistic distances. It's always just a confined map in confined boundaries so scouting is only marginally useful and doesn't make up a major portion of the game

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Fighting games suck ass

>Black Forest objectively one of the best map types in AoE2
>absolutely btfos blizzardlet gookclickers

All the evidence you need that the rts scene was killed by esport fags

RTS is a PC exclusive genre and successful PC exclusives don't have a place in the industry anymore aside from indie. Both PC and console ports need to be accomodated for the broader market and RTS fucking sucks on console, see Halo Wars.

esportfags
mobafags
mobilefags

RTS had it hard

at least we are getting Homeworld 3 youtube.com/watch?v=J675BQaIuQs

>Don't you guys get tired of sounding like retards?
I don't think you know where you're posting?

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you might enjoy that more for single player stuff but what I'm saying is that the people who stomp your face in online for the RTS games you don't like would do the same thing to you in your hypothetical randomized location. A massive map means all of their APMs are going to focus on scouting and expanding, scouting and expanding, over and over again until they find you, and then you're fucked. it's be like playing a 1v1 on an 8 player map on Starcraft. Bigger map and a random starting location? Sure, but if your mechanics arnt there it's only a matter of time

They wouldn't be able to scout and expand indefinitely without finding resources, you would have to scout for resources as well as the enemy and producing scouts requires resources

>They wouldn't be able to scout and expand indefinitely without finding resources
Good rts players know how to scout effectively. Do you have any idea how easy it's going to be for them to find resources and capitalize it when your 200-300APMs are split between base management and a few scouting units?

I hate RTS games and i'm a millenial. Friends bugged me about it growing up, but I can't stand it. It's just not fun. Generally hate view from above games, too. >muh god complex mode

kill yourself

I hate RTS and I'm a boomer. Pals bugged me about it growing up, but I can't stand it. It's jsut not fun. Generally hate view from above games, too. >muh god complex mode