World lore thread

Why would they do that?

no one else wanted them I assume

what about this blood elf?

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there are no blood elves in classic, only neutral high elves. please dont post gross that stuff here.

Whats the lore here?

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>"burning down a capital and attempting to commit mass genocide makes her Morally Grey"
we live in a world of clown logic.

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There are blood elves in Azshara you dingleberry.

classic lore writing is way different than retail lore writing, dont even try to compare the two.

Take your retail garbage away with you.

>that ass

uh, its that patched? holy shit

those dont count.

this is why we need to remove transmog, everyone walks around like a shitty fanfic character rather than a rpg character

Horde are niggers.

Big hero guy got a lifetime free uber ticket and shares it with all his friends.

t. seething grape elf

night elves are trannys

Whats the comfiest UI mod for classic bros

> that butt
fuck she's practically inviting with that asshole.

it's like cleavage of the ass.jigglage.

Tukui is decent, but I hate the way it changes fonts all over the game into this awful sans serif bold impact shit. Looks terrible in the quest log. On topic, why did Tauren ally themselves with the orcs and forsaken? Tauren always seemed like an alliance race to me, philosophically speaking. I can't see Tauren being friendly with plagueworking undead and deforesting, war-hungry pea brained orcs.

Can't you change that? I've got ElvUI and you can change practically everything including the fonts used for a particular frame.

heres my Elvui profile that i used in the OP Screenshot

install elvui for classic and then import this text

pastebin.com/j1JuMLme

There's also Blood Elves in Blasted Lands.

those dont count either

You can, but tthe way tukui does fonts for some reason is to split up every single different font into groupings. I can't for the life of me figure out where the control for quest text font is. Super annoying; I've had to go and change every single font manually back to "game," and then that makes other issues. Because I can't turn the opacity to transparent on the unit frames, the original game font without drop shadows doesn't read on half of tukui's unit frames unless I make them some awful neon color. It's a huge mess, I just uninstalled it.

Any other UI addons? I used to use X-Perl, Bartender, and Onebag to cover my UI back in the day. Haven't been able to find if they support Classic anymore. Would be great to find something where it's all in one place like Tukui but goddamn that shit is over-complicated

Leper gnomes aren't undead, they are "living" but what's done to them is almost the same as what's been done to the Forsaken undead. Mutated, twisted, violent, crazy versions of their past selves with no real relation to what they were in life.

>Haven't been able to find if they support Classic anymore.
You just download an older version of it

The figure wore the robes of a priest of the Holy Light - not uncommon among the Forsaken, who mocked the order by wearing their garments and allowing the sacred robes to be soiled and tainted by their bloody work.

Somehow, Andarin sensed, this figure was different; the robes seemed to be in almost tolerable condition, even if the body wearing them was not.

"You wear the robes of a priest, Trevor. Why do you not channel the Light in battle, if you seek redemption?"

The priest seemed to wince at that.

"While I refuse to wield the shadow, the Light has refused me, or so it seems. And so, I am truly a broken man; I learned to wield spears of Light like Uther's knights did in the Second. Without the Light, I am unarmed and unarmored -- but not entirely helpless, as you see."

Andarin couldn't help but feel a little sorry for the fallen priest, if his story was true. Perhaps a man, no matter how virtuous, could not channel holy power while in such a form.

not that simple bc classic is using legions framework

Wouldn't it not work because Classic is built on a legion engine and just reskinned or something? You might be right, I just assumed that wouldn't work

No idea, it works fine for me aside from having to reload the ui after a few hours to fix some bugs

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Probably only because the orcs saved them from the centaurs.

this. but also the orcs have the warsong lumber camp so... taurens wouldnt like that.

i think it really boils down to taurens being an orc unit in W3

I am so glad there are no Blood Elves.

They get added in the next expac homie

Horde should have received Goblins from the get go, and High Elves should be on Alliance. Or Half-Elves.

the knocked down sign post is still functional

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how many times do you losers have to see this image until you realize TBC is a bad idea

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Classic+ makes more sense.

Increase level cap to 65, add two new races, introduce something like the Tinker class. Give a few new things to do for people leveling, and add some new 60 to 65 zones.

Agreed. Never increase a cap by 10 levels. EverQuest learned this fast by doing increments of 5.

your post literally made no sense. there shouldn't be a level cap increase.

Who would get Tinker?

This seems like a small local thing more than a racial allegiance thing. Maybe a local group of Tauren would be friendly to the orcs for saving them from centaurs but it seems to be the Tauren hegemony would be incredibly hostile to a race of extraplanetary invaders who were fleeing their own home, because they destroyed the entire planet for power lust through demon consultation. There's a reason Tauren can't roll warlocks. I have trouble understanding why the Tauren are allies with a race that invaded their lands, deforests massive swaths of elf lands--keep in mind the spiritual leaders of the Tauren race are friendly with night elves specifically because they share the same shamanism. It seems to me that Tauren should have been an Alliance race, and the whole leper gnome--crazy experimentation power lust thing would made gnomes a good fit for the horde had they written things slightly differently. There's no real need for Gnomeregan to be located in Dun Morogh.

If you do this, allow troll druids to keep druid from becoming faction specific, and then the only problem that remains is what to do with shamans on Alliance. I think faction specific classes are super necessary, so perhaps the consequence of civilized allegiance for the Tauren would be a severance with the deeply natural shamanism. Druidism is retained but shamanism is lost to time.

Orc shamans make no sense, how could the orcs have any kind of deep spiritual connection to the land of Azeroth? They're literally an extraplanetary contagion. I'm just rambling and theorycrafting now though

you dont even need to raise the level cap, wtf?

>Tauren always seemed like an alliance race to me, philosophically speaking.
Tauren in Classic are not the same as the hippi-faggots that they've become in retail. A lot of their quests have to do with open combat and honor. They embody both the violence and peace of nature, whereas in live they're just pacifist do-nothings with a limp wristed leader.

this. tauren are like the klingon in classic

Never raise level cap.
Keep cap at 60.

Introduce a couple new leveling zones from 10-60, a couple new raids.

You would also have two new 1-10 zones in the new race capitals.

Goblin for Horde, High Elf for Alliance. Just drop the Blood Elf thread and let them stay secluded wherever they are in current classic, it was a shit story anyway and made no sense they'd join the Horde to begin with. You may as well say Naga joined too.

Tinker would be
Orc, Goblin, Undead
Human, Dwarf, Gnome

NO. NEW. RACES.
FUCK. OFF. GOBLIN. AND. ELF. FUCKERS.

I want Ogres for Horde though.

Just more Alliance-dominated writing power fantasies in play. Gotta dethrone one Warchief per expansion after all!

how do you reset all your secondary stats without raising the levelcap? everybody will end up having 100% and 95% dodge/block

I don't know why you keep replying. They already said they would re-release tbc and wotlk if there would be enough players left.

>actually wanting Tinker

Zoomers need to be gassed

>Actually wanting Death Knight and Le Tauren Monk
Wrath babies need to be garroted

Tauren have no lore pertaining to being tree-hugging sissies like the Night Elves. They respect nature and all but are more than willing to carve smokum peace pipes out of it too, and in fact believe themselves to be the balancing check against Night Elven values in keeping nature from being too far into either side.

>a class from a game that came out in 2003
>zoomer

Tauren are THE shaman race. You can't take that away from them.

And they also are probably Horde because they like Thrall, but not most orcs who tear apart the earth.

>tinker
>zoomer

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No, no and no. If you want classic+ (as you shouldn't you fucking zoomer), the only ONLY viable path would be for blizzard to release 5, 10, 20, and 40-man content THROUGHOUT the leveling experience, and the end gam, ewhich is BELOW the power level of Naxx to avoid exacerbating the almost insane power creep that Naxx represented. These new areas would provide laterally powered loot which serves to offer a greater variety of armor models at viable power levels across the end game, and could be used to force non viable specs to be viable while leveling. Like a new Lv. 20 instance with loads of "off spec" loot sprinkled in which shores up Ret Pally or Balance druid weaknesses in experimental ways without altering core things that make vanilla what it is--like talents.

The aim of classic+ should be greater variety of aesthetic and spec viability THROUGH gear PROVIDED by dungeon/raid/quest content that is sprinkled into the leveling process and at the end game BELOW Naxx's power level.

Blizzard should also reroll servers fresh to vanilla over and over after Naxx, with this new + content added into the phases. No expansions, just constant rollover of servers to fresh after 3 years or so. Otherwise, no classic+. Just reroll Vanilla servers until no ones left.

You do know Tinker is a super fucking old idea right? And fits Classic more than any other class?

It should have been ogres and high elves. But high elves are another set of elves would be boring. It could have been horde goblins if wow never happened, but it's too late they're established as neutral

And gear was already getting out of hand at Naxx. You have to raise the cap to keep the rewards worth anyones effort

>Orc NPCs talk like Shakespeare in Vanilla Org
cringe

All the books and the pen / paper rpg had rape and slavery everywhere, usually by orcs
Why cant i get that in game?

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We're never getting the original Vanilla worldbuilder back so no Classic+ makes no sense

tauren won the horde's "which animal race will we not try to exterminate" lottery but that means being stuck in the horde forever
it's impressive how they transformed a race of minotaurs that fight with big ass totems into a race of tontos for the orcs. grimtotems at least had an iota of character but they're just the black antagonist tauren, like the blackrock/dark iron/ deathwing's kids
and then when we go to highmoutain it's the same shit but with antlers

I get that, but I still cannot understand Tauren allying with forsaken or orcs under pretty much any circumstance.

>Tauren monk
That sounds pretty cool...

>Half-Elves on the Alliance, that don't exi-
wow.gamepedia.com/Half-elf

The Forsaken, while mainly freed undead from the scourge, is really just a coalition of unlikables.
Leper gnomes, despite not being crazy, are still tossed out of gnomish society mainly because they're seen as a bad blight on history.
There's even a Half-dwarf leader of the Apothecary

>inb4 rpg isn't canon

>nordrassil is just fine after archimonde and thousands of wisps blow up on it with the force of a nuclear bomb
>teldrassil burns down cuz horde lit some fires

I'll enslave you alright

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There are actually two different kinds of leper gnomes, the irradiated Thermaplugg variants and the literal rotting leper gnomes that serve as Scourge attendants (you can see plenty of them in Naxxramas). Ganoosh is almost certain to be the latter of the two, as irradiated Gnomes have had their perception altered to strike out at just about anything that isn't also nuclear.

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Everyone who says Horde doesn't deserve Goblins and Alliance doesn't deserve High Elves didn't actually play vanilla.

Those were some of the MOST requested and logical choices.

Blood Elves and Draenei are shit and everyone on Alliance wanted High Elves to be playable

Only the Grimtotem tribe really cares for the Forsaken and that's because no other Taurens like the Grimtotem.

Pretty much all requests for Alliance were High Elf or Furbolg

More like Braug Dipshit!

The Tauren were the ones who vouched for the Undead, as they believed that they could find a cure for the condition. The Grimtotems might have also had sway at that time to influence it.

>goblins
>logical
Someone didn't read the lore

>Tinker

>Zoomer request

Imagine not wanting to level the Golem spec

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Eh... again looking for a cure for the condition doesn't really seem like a good excuse when you see the extent of the plagueworks going on in the undercity and surrounding areas. Any self respecting Tauren would look at what the forsaken do to the environment around them and pound those edgy zombies back into mud and bits. Shouldn't Tauren advocate a different path to a cure than wanton unchecked experimental plague doctoring at the expense of entire zones? If not, again, can not fathom an allegiance. And that's not to mention how antithetical the entire orc animus is to Tauren spirituality. They share "honor" as a tenant, but so do humans and dwarves. It's a weak platitude in this context. If I were RPing a Tauren I'd have huge problems with being considered Horde, and a massive disdain for everyone but Trolls therein.

autism

What the hell would Classic+ even be?

>wonton unchecked
Literally only Wrathgate which was kept under secret by Varimatharas

>comes into a lore thread
>calls loreposting autism
Shiggy

I'm only going to speak in regards to pre-Cata lore because post is a fucking mess that I don't even want to acknowledge, the Forsaken weren't responsible for the state of Tirisfal Glades, the Burning Legion was and they were driven out.

Brand new faction with specific currency to grind that can purchase catchup gear, tokens for upgrading the catchup gear to BWL level, a mount and a non combat pet.

Like seriously what do these niggers expect the current dev team to do except suck shit?

>plague fucked the entire zone so hard dalaran mages has to bubble in order to start rebuilding, and Gilneans built a wall and made Mexico pay for it
>forsaken crawl in and have no problem
>don't try to right the wrong at all
>spend all day doing the "poor me" act, while back at home they live in a sewer and have literal zombie makers making more gigantic zombies
>"we're looking for a cure guys we swear"
Yeah okay. Why do Tauren tolerate this again?

Dont raise the level cap

Finish a couple of unfinished zones

Add in a couple of 40-60 zones

New items and gear for class/spec combos that need them

A new 60 dungeon and/or raid, keep the drops inline with the others, to not fuck the economy

see

A third faction would unironically be a great idea.

If the Undead cured the land the humans would get even MORE autistic about reclaiming it. They SHOULD take advantage of areas that no living thing could feasibly last in and keep that territory as their own.

these threads almost make me want to come back because shb is getting a bit stale right now

>Plague fucked the entire zone
What? No it didn't. Ever heard of the Guardians of Tirisfal?

>Gilneas built a wall
Because they didn't want to deal with the Scourge

>Dalaran
Scourge again

Scourge are not Forsaken.

>reclaiming your ancestral homelands from zombie interlopers and interplanetary refugees fleeing the consequences of their own greed is autism
>horde dindu nuffin
Tauren and Trolls are respectable. Orcs and Undead can catch the fucking blinding judgement and get plowed under by the sons of Strom. This is why I roll alliance.

>What are things no Blizzard developer ever said

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If forsaken are so different from scourge, why are they living in a gigantic active plagueworks and embroiled in the manufacture of more plague and more zombies? They should be getting to rebuild the city, not acting like rats scuttling beneath it. They should be spiritually reconciling themselves with their condition and building on their human heritage--to reconnect with their humanity, not eschewing it. The forsaken are "forsaken" by their continued actions, not by the unfortunate circumstance that awoke them.

If you wanted it back so bad why didn't you beat the Dreadlords? Oh yeah, because you couldn't and your "unnoficial faction leader" Garithos became their personal fuck and suck-toy.

Tauren and Trolls are limp-wristed faggots who accomplished nothing in their entire campaign, it's no wonder you relate so well to them. Forsaken and Orcs got shit done and kept MUH LORDRON wusses like you in check.

The Forsaken were building a Plague that worked specifically on Undead. They already had tons of anti-living shit on hand, the fact that they were obsessively researching something that could actually be used against them showed how much more important vengeance against the Scourge was than self-preservation.

>--to reconnect with their humanity
They tried too, but humanity wanted none of it.

>people already seething about how Classic+ will never happen

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Pea brained refugee detected. Scoreboard check faggot you lost ALL THREE WARS. Elves beat back the burning legion once, and we beat back the burning legion from dalaran. You on the other hand immediately fell for their bs and destroyed your planet as soon as they gave you a chance. Get fucked, and fuck off azeroth is full. For the alliance.

Yeah few people would want rotting corpses coming home to them. Humanity is not at fault. Forsaken should have built regular settlements and cleaned up and acted less dead

How exactly did they try? I'm not buying your characterization of Forsaken as a poor-me race that big mean humans bullied

So over watch has been a thing for blizzard before their game.

Is Golden ignorant or just retarded?

I don't think it's a good idea since nobody really wants a classic + because as soon as blizzard starts approaching vanilla to better it you'll just end up with the same arc that you got in BC's design.

The loudest group before classic's launch was the no changes crowd. Classic + automatically means changes and looking at the suggestions people are making in this thread, it all sounds like "give me BC again".

Also just because the kingdoms of humanity rejected them doesn't mean the forsaken couldn't have built their own and claimed to be an eight kingdom--even if the others refused to recognize them. Instead they just fucked off, joined the Orcs, and wallow around in the sewer feeling sorry for themselves.

Overwatch is literally a mashup of Blizzard ideas

There were countless farmers, tailors and non-Royal apothecaries that tried to do just that, but a few Scarlet lynchings later they realized that trying to resume a normal life wasn't possible with lifey around.

Here's a scoreboard for you:
>Lost Southshore
>Lost Stromgarde until another flavor of Undead bailed you out
>Lost Andorhal

I'm still wondering why that arabian dancer fem human painting is in some tauren / goblin inns

Lore died in TBC when they decided to add "good" demons to Alliance and Blood Elves to Horde. And Paladins to Horde.

Just wait for the next xpac when we get lightforged undead

>we won some battles
>actually some of those were scourge
>but w-we got some battles
How're the mud-cakes tasting this morning, Grog? Good harvest?

The Forsaken won every battle I mentioned. The Death Knights bailed Stromgarde out to let you have a chance to reclaim it.

sir zeliek was able to channel the light. He's basically an undead paladin

Blood Elves joining the horde made more sense than Night Elves joining any faction.

Draenei having a pure form made them more interesting than just some draenor wildlife squatting in the hellscape. Hell TBC Draenor is a more interesting fantasy setting than 90% of the copy-pasta medieval euroshit

Paladins to Horde was done well lorewise since they weren't true paladins which made killing them as alliance paladins all the sweeter. Blizzard ruined blood elves by giving them back their sunwell. Shamans for alliance with Draenei was bad. Draenei in general were a pity race since Blizzard wasn't sure what to give alliance until about half-way into actual development.

Did you play Warcraft 3? The tauren’s entire arc was helping out Thrall and the horde

>post-vanilla lore
Miss me with that

Well Thrall is the only orc that Blizzard has ever written who seems to understand the profound shame of his animalistic people. Why tauren deal with thrall I can see. Why they consider themselves allies of orcs I do not.

The Scythe of Elune quest chain is my favorite chain in vanilla, except for maybe Shifting Sands

When Blizzard redid both zones featured in it (Ashenvale and Duskwood) they removed any mention of Velinde Starsong save for a dirt pile.

I'll never forgive them for that. I guess pop culture references are more important than engaging quests.

Sir Zeliek is one extraordinarily unique NPC that was under the control of another monster who begged and pleaded with you to leave. He was probably the most faithful person towards the light in existence.

There is literally nothing wrong with the inclusion of Draenei in TBC, it's propably the best retcon Blizzard ever did.
Feel free to fight with me

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Are there any Halflings or Hobbits in Warcraft?

Shut up horsecocker

>Draenei having a pure form made them more interesting
nah. The monstrous broken are far cooler than holy space goats, with spaceships that completely shit on established lore power creep
I will also be forever seething that paladins and the entire human race basically worships space lightbulbs now instead of some vague concept of god

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The dark riders from Kara was pretty cool and I wanted to see the not-ring wraiths in the future since they were such a huge part of Duskwood's lore.

Blizzard forgot about them. Duskwood also got the shaft in cata with the dumb twilight betrayal plot and the rework to Stitches.

The scarlet lynchings make sense as a motivator but again why not build and claim and eighth kingdom and have your deal be indignance that it's not recognized as a proper human kingdom, instead of just rolling with orcs? That would actually be interesting, a human kingdom outside the proper seven, who has to place allegiances elsewhere to survive. Instead we get what? Loosely organize self pity, and edgy bs about not being able to survive with "lifey" around? Could use some better writing if they want me to see forsaken as pitiable but strong, instead of weak and reactionary

Draenei are fucking retarded and make no sense at all.

It's abundantly obvious they had no idea what they were doing with Draenei lore and that Pandaren were supposed to be the Alliance race in TBC. Which was confirmed btw, and they even showed the TBC Pandaren model at Blizzcon.

>a new Lv. 20 instance with loads of "off spec" loot sprinkled in which shores up Ret Pally or Balance druid weaknesses in experimental ways without altering core things that make vanilla what it is--like talents.
Who the fuck would want to run this shit though? Pretty much no one.

>The aim of classic+ should be greater variety of aesthetic and spec viability THROUGH gear PROVIDED by dungeon/raid/quest content that is sprinkled into the leveling process and at the end game BELOW Naxx's power level.
Why? Why would anyone run content that is worse than content below the current content?

Every explanation I hear for "Classic+" is garbage.

>Blizzard forgot about them.
They were part of 4 artifact quests in Legion, though is was a really shitty use of them.

because they remind you of your room

oh nonono bros i thought tbc was a good expac oh nonono

It's a god damn shame, too. Pandaren would have been bro'ing it up with Dwarves. And they looked like a real race, too, not a fat fucking Disney composition.

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The monstrous broken were always pea-brain fantasy to me. They just came off as some concept artist that finished a neat design and some generic lore was attached to them. Really all they were in WC3 since the stars of that campaign were the Naga and Blood Elves. The whole Draenei being a race corrupted and hunted by demons across the cosmos added a lot of old school weird dnd feel to it.

Naaru being manifestations of the light didn't bother me since they came off as just aspects of pure light. It was more interesting than some boring vague not-catholic lore that we'd gotten so far.

TBC was the peak of interesting ideas in an alien setting and Blizzard was never able to meet it again.

Still, I'd taken a race from WC3 (even pandas or Worgen) over the Draenei for TBC. There were too many races that people actually wanted for oc choices like draenei being introduced.

I still think they're the only example of a panda furry fetishist getting his oc race into a setting. Like that nigga REALLY liked pandas.

don't remind me.

>Feel free to fight with me
naw, I won't pledge my loyalty
we will not share our ways
fuck orcs, fuck eredar, fuck the burning legion

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Back in the 80s and 90s, monster races weren't "Furry." Shit like Gnolls, Lizardmen, etc. were just brutal fantasy races that no one was obsessed with fucking. Furry stuff really picked up from people born in the 90s.

You seem to miss the point. Let me try to explain it clearer. The idea isn't to add a lv20 instance with exclusively niche loot. It's to add a lv20 instance that includes niche loot in some loot tables. Why would people want to run it? Same reason they run deadmines and wailing caverns. For loot and quests and experience. They would run the new instance because the loot al has different models, and might be worthwhile for them. Same concept on new raids. I'm not talking about releasing a 10-man after Naxx with UBRS level loot. I'm talking about releasing a new 10-man before Molten Core, with UBRS tier loot, so maybe you want to run that one instead. Maybe pre-raid BiS isn't a dress for paladins anymore. Maybe there's a new raid tier between AQ and Naxx so the power creep isn't so crazy. Maybe there's a new Lv.40 dungeon that fleshes out some lore around the thandol span and has Ret Pally loot on the final boss loot table. That's classic+, not endless power creep after Naxx and recasting all the shitty expansions. I don't understand why you think no one would play this content. But for what it's worth, I'd rather they not do classic+ at all as well. I think they should leave it as is and jut reroll fresh servers after Naxx in perpetuity. My point is that the closest thing I can see to classic+ working is something like I described.

It's all a bad idea though.

youtube.com/watch?v=8aF2GxWi7Ag

From the dawn of the internet, the nascent furfag fetish was born. Samwise Didier was famous at blizzard with being OBSESSED with pandas and trying to shove them into warcraft 3 wherever he could.

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who do they call it retail

>I will also be forever seething that paladins and the entire human race basically worships space lightbulbs now instead of some vague concept of god
THIS
H
I
S

I like fantasy because it's literary power is mythopoeic, user. Soap opera pulp "fantasy" that rides on novelty doesn't cut it. You can call it "boring vague non-catholic" lore if you like but be aware you're gimping your understanding of Tolkien's literary achievement, and of Howard's genius by refusing to delve deeper into their work.

The thing in vanilla though is that before level 60 you don't really need to be optimized. Ret pally dps is fine in SM or Mara. Is it the best? nah. But half the time the hardest part of running a dungeon is getting your group together.

Dungeons are pretty faceroll in terms of dps required and cc options will always get you further in most cases.

The issues with the bad specs isn't gear so much as they're just horribly designed and required BC to help fix them. No amount of gear is going to fix that a pally tank runs on mana and doesn't have a taunt. Or that the damage scaling on feral is awful and requires a constant 50% attack boost to be average. Or that boomkins and shadow priests have no staying power even with top-tier gear. Gear won't give a ret pally a not shit set of dps skills.

The only people who really benefit from 10 mans are the anti-social fags that couldn't get into an actual raiding guild. Nobody would really want to run them past the first week anyways if all they give is UBRS loot. You'd get way more for your time by just doing BWL or ZG.

They can add more spellbooks. One could give paladins a taunt. A specific libram could do something that reduces mana issues.

What kinda pseudo-intellectual are you?

Warcraft did nothing impressive like Tolkien. It barely has a surface level understanding of Tolkien lore. Warcraft is pulp fantasy. It started with a power metal aesthetic with orcs punching humans and humans stabbing orcs. It was never deep and was always at it's best when the art team was free to do whatever they wanted without adhering to a medieval-fantasy aesthetic. It's comic artstyle always had it stand out.

I'd rather see an artist go wild with an idea (ie planescape) than see someone who has not an iota of the talent of Tolkien try to ape his work. Especially when it's clear that they didn't put any effort into the idea.

It's literally called the Light and there is a catholic cathedral in SW. I'd take sentient crystals representing a cosmic force over that dull shit any day.

How2classic +
>reaching lvl 60 with a certain class unlocks a sub talent tree for ALL classes on that server that has a few niche talents
>every week, two zones are randomly chosen to be scaled to lvl 60 and have all their quests doable at lvl 60 too. Low level players are informed its a "danger/war" zone, and pvp is encouraged in them. You can also do an attuenement to run that zones dungeons at lvl 60 with scaled up loot.
>prestige proffessions, at max skill you can reset a skill to 0 but makes all recepies crafted with it 10% more effective, stacking indeffinetly.
>global daily challenges that are alliance vs horde, simmilar to the gates of anh qiraj, the winning faction gets an honor + item drop chance, balances as itd be a drain on resources to the winners

Right so adding prot gear for pallies that is intellect mail and grants you a weak taunt ability or something experimental like that could be a really interesting way to create more tank viability in paladins without altering core mechanics like talent trees. Alternatively consider a mail chest with intellect that has a proc on whenever you parry to increase your armor by an amount for a time. This could make shaman tanks using earth shock for a taunt like it was originally intended more viable during leveling. More tank viability make dungeons a broader experience. It's worth thinking about. That's classic+ for me, if it's anything at all. Not making shamans viable to tank BWL, but -more- viable to do certain things... again it's hard to imagine which is why I think they should just leave vanilla as is, at the end of the day.

Also I like UBRS. Not every player doesn't want to run them. I hate raiding in vanilla end game. I'm planning on doing my Dset2 grind and going for my wintersaber. Dset2 stats are good enough to make me scrappy in PvP for a vast majority of the playerbase, and I can pug raids with guilds that have them on farm for upgrades. The end game is different for different people

>vanilla has shit lore like High Elves
>OMG OMG OMG WE NEED HIGH ELVES

Wow dude that's a huge fucking whoosh from me, I think you misunderstood my post and my eyes are going crossed trying to figure out how. We agree on Tolkien. We agree on hacks bogarting his work. What we don't agree on seems to be that I have no interest in shitty fantasy Justin because there's a huge power vacuum where Tolkien and Howard left off. Warcraft lore is pretty well terrible fanfic tier tripe compared to the fathers of mythopoeia, and calling burning crusade "interesting" for its novelty is not a conclusion I'd draw from the points made prior

All I see that doing is making a class shitty to play until you have x and y which is the design I despised in Legion.

The added spells and redesigns of the classes was what fixed their shitty aspects in later expansions. Gear won't do more than a tolken effort since so many of these bad specs didn't scale well with gear anyways. Gear fixing class design just makes it shitter to me.

>t.Jeff Caplan

What if instead of autp attacks, we had to manually press attack? Would make leveling a bit more involved

>Those were some of the MOST requested and logical choices.
1) post proofs
2) Nope

>or Furbolg
Who in their right fucking mind wanted that

TBC is 100% Caplan designed

I don't disagree with you user. All I'm saying is that a huge portion of zoomers crying for BC after classic, or crying for Classic* or whatever are wanting the wrong things. Classic+ Shouldn't be a raised level cap, or more post-Naxx content. IF it was going to happen at all it should be focused on offering lateral content throughout the existing progression, and making non-viable specs more viable. That's the right IDEA. I think in practice you're right, though, that making non-viable specs more viable is just too far broken to be handled without a proper rework like BC tried. BCs solutions were trash anyway and like many anons point out BC was a terrible expansion for many many other reasons.

At the end of the day they should leave classic classic and reroll fresh servers on a set time limit after Naxx in perpetuity. That's the right call. Though it is interesting to theorycraft fixing unviable specs in the vanilla environment

>TBC is 100% Caplan designed
Nope because TBC introduced arena and arena gear

>because there's a huge power vacuum where Tolkien and Howard left off

There's no reason to fill what shouldn't be filled. I'd rather fantasy embrace the concept of it being fantastical than try to fill any perceived spot that was made open by a death. All I've seen that do to the genre is just spawn dozens of copy-cats who just do what Tolkien did instead of making their work their own and ignoring any conviction to tropes or previous design.

TBC was interesting because so much of it's world was a mixed ecology caused by it's destruction and numerous corrupting influences. It was a dying world with hints of what it used to be with the primary cultures still persisting in ruins left behind. Certainly more interesting to met than WoW has been for years both before and after.

Your first paragraph isn't really speaking to any of what I've said so I'm not really sure how to respond. With respect to what you get out of BC, that's cool man do you. Novelty of space goats and shattered interplanetary demon slaves isn't enough for me to care about shitty writing and I'll-conceives characters and poor art direction. I think we find different things "interesting" and equivocating it isn't going to be useful to either one of us.

>just drop blood elf

Fuck off, Blood Elves being edgy and keeping leper gnomes as slaves to sew their clothes was a cool take on the dark/high elf trope you fucking sperg. BC ending with the Blood elves suddenly not being edgy was fucking stupid.

TBC lore is a disaster. If you played wc3, there was so much potential and instead not only it was shit but it destroyed the lore of Warcraft forever.

How would you do an expansion without raising the level cap though?

You can't just go to tier 6, how will new players catch up? Nobody will be running MC/BWL at that time (unless you implement catch up mechanics rendering the first several tiers absolutely pointless)

TBC was an amazing expansion and the most fun I had in WoW. But it's not vanilla so vanilla fags hate it.

>High Elf for Alliance
High Elves shouldn't even exists since WC3 and sack of Quel'Thalas

shhh, don't tell that to the trannies, they will become mad

>If you played wc3, there was so much potential

There was only enough story beats for vanilla and Wrath. arguably they stretched out one for long as they could in wrath

> it was shit but it destroyed the lore of Warcraft forever.

How in the did it do that?

This. He thinks that Warcraft was boring before TBC, which is my issue. The reason I drew the comparison to Tolkien and Howard wasn't to say that WoW was a literary masterpiece, it was to say that prior to BC WoW was dealing with real world cultural analogs. I find the writers take on "light" interesting because it relates to European history and that's the fountainhead of fantasy's fascinating relatability. You can call that boring I guess but Tolkien knew exactly what he was doing in conflating Odin with Christ in the Gandalf character. He was doing what the Danes did on the Jellingstene. That's the font of the literary. TBC lore is just shit pulp and untempered "art direction" with no soul or substance.

WC3 is nothing BUT potential. It’s a mediocre product created to sell WoW to existing blizzard fans who were unanimously rts nerds

To me it looks more like Murloc/Gnome crossbreed.

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You really can't since raiding became the focus of wow's development and raiding was always about power creep. You either keep adding tiers or people get bored and stop

So says mr. "we wuz"

wrong on every account, try again fagboi

>classic+
>blizz implements the necromancer class that ultimately became the affliction tree for warlocks

2 factions already destrooyed lore
>Theramore somehow became part of Stormwind
>NElfs became sissy fags and needs Alliance help
>Horde goes to Ashenvale again despite having Stonetalon and Azshara nearby
>Forsaken in the Horde
>Thrall sending orcs to establish settlement in Eeastern kingdoms and allows warlocks

was kael going evil REALLY that bad? He'd do anything to save the blood elves, at what point did he ever show any morality in his decisions?

Excluding magisters terrace here

S E E T H I N G corpsecuck

>not parts of ram

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>was kael going evil REALLY that bad?
Yep since it's literally never was explained or showed in game

>tfw can't RP as a forsaken supremecist

DEATH TO THE SCOURGE!

AND

DEATH TO THE LIVING!

I just did the questline surrounding Yuriv's Tombstone in Sepulcher and jesus fucking christ, the writing in vanilla was sometimes really fucking good.

You cheeky fucker, I know you didn't post that for the Elfieri,

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>There was only enough story beats for vanilla and Wrath
It's still huge.
>How in the did it do that?
Blood Elves, killing all of the rts big characters, the whole story is retarded, the spacegoats, the fact that it lost the grim feeling, etc.

Na it was fun. Funny characters, great moments like Arthas killing his father. While playing outland or the Rexxar campaign it really felt like there were tons of mysteries and i wanted to explore more about this world.

Blood elfs joining the horde always made sense, just like other horde races they are underdogs at heart. Just make them a hero class, you have to level one max level character before making a blood elf.
Also add naga to horde.
I don't care about alliance.

The Tauren are allied with the orcs through a blood debt. Thrall's Horde helped them beat back the centaur and reclaim Mulgore, and so the Tauren have pledged to stand by the orcs in their times of need. This brings them in alliance with the trolls as well, as they are friends of friends. As for the forsaken, the Tauren are actually the ones that vouched for their inclusion in the Horde, as they believed they had potential for redemption and felt a moral obligation to look for a cure for their curse. Tauren culture is laden with themes of redemption, from their hubris in awakening Therazane and destroying Desolace, to their myth about being corrupted by the whispers beneath the Earth. They're sympathetic to the cause of rising above one's past mistakes, much like the orcs had done in shaking off the demon blood.

>tfw have to fight against Arthas
being a death knight sucks

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>Orc shamans make no sense
They were in warcraft 3 already, they are well established.

"Hurr we can't make playable ogres because female ogres would have to be ugly whales that nobody would play with"

Fuck Blizzard

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This too. Not only it was terrible, but WoW when it became "story heavy" in wotlk immedialty forced this issue .

What a stupid fucking race, I would agree if you would have to do some grazy focking shit to get a panda so they would be rare.

They should just make it One-Headed and Two-Headed Ogres instead of male and female.

> He thinks that Warcraft was boring before TBC, which is my issue.

I thought it was and it was really they gameplay that kept me interested.

>, it was to say that prior to BC WoW was dealing with real world cultural analogs.

Which I think is a albatross on the neck of the fantasy genre that has already been done at it's peak and we won't see anything that steps out of the king's shadow.

>I find the writers take on "light" interesting because it relates to European history and that's the fountainhead of fantasy's fascinating relatability.

It's just not-Christianity and it's not even well-explored like how Tolkien took christian and pagan mythology into his own work. It had no character or impact and the Naaru were an aspect that I feel was uniquely warcraft and a good addition to the concept of the light.

>TBC lore is just shit pulp and untempered "art direction" with no soul or substance.

I don't see how you can just reduce it down to 'muh art direction' when so many of the zones of BC have lore bits explaining how a certain zone developed and the 'whose who in the zoo' bits. It's about the same as what was in vanilla anyways. The Netherstorm receives as much lore as the Light did in vanilla.

Fair points. I would still RP a Tauren that disagrees with a lot of what redemption means for other members of the horde. I don't see what the Orcs are doing as entirely justified by stoning for past mistakes. The Orcs in vanilla are still perpetrating all sorts of problems, as are the undead. It's not uncommon for an individual to disagree with the politicians doing statecraft, especially in feudal scenarios like this

It was explained though. He saw Illidan as completely insane, and the fel magic he was consuming made him power hungry, so he sided with Kil'Jaeden to ensure his people's survival.

>I thought it was and it was really they gameplay that kept me interested.
That's the other way around for me. I just finished wc3 and it was the best part of Vanilla. The gameplay itself isn't that great. Sure it's addictive when you play that kind of game the first time. It's a MMO.

To be frank user I'm losing the interest to keep this going. Respect for you sticking to your perspective, but I still disagree with a lot of what your saying for reasons that I can't get into 2,000 characters with my thumbs on the pot at work. Pleasure effortposting with you, faggot

>vanillafags be all like "yeah but TBC had welfare epics"

would love to see these people run shattered halls heroic

Cairn was impressed by Orcish savagery and was sympathetic towards Thrall's want to reconnect the Orcs to their shamanistic roots.

On the subject of tauren druidism not tolerating the orcish incursion into ashenvale, why would a plains/steppe loving race give a shit about a forest? Not just any forest, but one heavily modified by a race to the point that most, if not all, of the plantlife within it are likely growing in ways not intended by nature, especially when said plains loving druids have a far more hands off philosophy than the retards that sent a druid to turn the barrens into a forest and released snek demons instead?

That's the point. He turns against his own people.

>durr, durr, i'm going to side with Kil Jaeden "the deceiver", who's responsible for my people being genocided in the first place.

>It's still huge.

I wouldn't call WC3's potential huge. Probably enough for a sequel called WC4 that would've had twenty-thirty hours of more story. Not as a giant mmo meant to take place in an expansive fantasy world.

It already ruined some aspects of the lore by bringing night elves and forsaken into factions, ignoring Kul Tiras, nuking Stormgarde, and closing off Gilineas for several expansions.

>Blood Elves, killing all of the rts big characters, the whole story is retarded, the spacegoats, the fact that it lost the grim feeling, etc.

IIlidan should've died in WC3 honestly. The whole story is retarded is just you dismissing everything because it ain't vanilla. Blood Elves were very well done in TBC and were way more detailed and explored than Gnomes or Dwarves. Just calling Draenei spacegoats just makes you sound like a vanilla fanboy who can't handle not-vanilla. Just like the people who keep acting autistic about pandarens. I don't know what you mean by a missing 'grim' feeling. If anything TBC is more grim since Outland is doomed no matter what you do and the opening zone has you walking around on a road made from the bones of millions of slain innocents.

I agree night elves are retarded and theres a reason my dwarfboi hates wineskins, but the way your talking is like a groundskeeper is somehow warping and twisting nature into some unholy abomination. He's not, he's a groundskeeper. If the Tauren have that much of a problem with elves planting trees, remind me why the forsaken don't make them faint out of sheer disgust again?

I don't know how the lore kept you interested when there were so many missed opportunities and just obvious black spots that should've been looked at.

Then leave with your shit opinions, spurgelord. I'm not here to entertain you anymore than you're here for me.

>IIlidan should've died in WC3 honestly
I agree
>Blood Elves were very well done in TBC
They shouldn't have got their Kingdom back like that. It's like nothing in the story matters and the world is static. The ending of TBC turns them back into High Elves (except they are now Horde).

Lmao huge faggot, I feel less bad about not spoonfeeding you more Yea Forums wisdom

They couldn't.

Some of those TBC heroics were harder than most of the raid fights in Vanilla.

Vanilla already had welfare gear anyways once DM and more profession recipes were added. You could easily just skip MC with 1.12 pre-bis raiding gear back in vanilla.

>Yea Forumswisdom

kek. You going to go Yea Forumscore on me too?

Pandaren were supposed to be the playable alliance race in TBC but were scrapped in favor of Draenei

I agree with the pureform point, but I think Broken being torn between paladins trying to reclaim the civilized culture that they lost and shamans trying to work with what they have right now would have been better thematically. Ignoring the need to market to shit taste plebs of course.

Enjoy your pulp space goat "lore," bro, at least it's novel.

>They shouldn't have got their Kingdom back like that.
Like how? Arthas just went in there, fucked shit up, and left a ruin. There were numerous scourge beasts there and half the city is still a fucked ruins and half of the high elf lands were twisted into the deadlands. Place was basically trisfal glades.

>It's like nothing in the story matters and the world is static.

Their city is a smoking ruin, most of their people are dead, their government turned to brain-washing people, and the entirety of the blood elf story is about trying to claw back from the brink that WC3 left them at while walking the line due to the demon magic addiction that Kael sold them on.

>The ending of TBC turns them back into High Elves (except they are now Horde).

Only decision with that race that I hate.

No it doesn't.
Horde raped and tried to genocide them.
Elves already consider humans as lesser race, imagine them sniffing the balls of Thrall and hanguing around in Orgrimmar.

Enjoy feeling snotty about some low literature anyways lol

>it's snotty to call low literature, that you call low, low but it's not snotty to act like low literature is somehow good anyway just because you like it
Jesus fuck man, this is why I stopped trying

You really think the scourge wouldn't maintain a military presence here? Especially when Arthas asks KelThuzad to watch over his legacy?
The fact that Kael and his people were in Lordaeron territory meant that they had nowhere else to go.
Seriously you were just genocided and without sunwell.
>Their city is a smoking ruin
And they still have all of their land in the end.
I really felt like majority of the Blood Elves went with Kael in Outland back when i played wc3.

Dude I'm not paying anyone effort when they use Yea Forumswisdom ironically or unironically.

You can either keep interacting with me or cut your losses and shitpost in another warcraft thread.

t. mad he can't worship his ancestors under a midnight pyre with the sacred juju dance because of his big cities and lights

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>dimspirit
Bet he got bullied all the time for being stuck with a family name that pretty much calls him a retard

Enjoy your memes, then shitbrain. Glad you found a box to collect up anyone who calls you a pseud. I'll keep posting here, just no more (you)s for you.

>The fact that Kael and his people were in Lordaeron territory meant that they had nowhere else to go.
Nope

It would have been panned as 'lazy' but I could have seen TBC having a macro theme of an elven civil war with high elves for the alliance and blood elves for the horde. Maybe have played up more of the savaging of the blood elf mana addiction so that instead of 'green eyed elves vs blue eyed elves' you had vampiric or slightly demonic looking blood elves and august and majestic standard high elves. Naaru are just plain trash and I hate them.

In general I classify Warcraft as "Superhero Fantasy" in terms of the aesthetic and style they've been going down since TBC and especially after WOTLK. I don't use that as a compliment, warcraft since TBC is what marvel/Disney would make if they made a fantasy world.

TBC is part of that awful marvel BS paradigm, dude. The lore went to shit with TBC, not after

>It would have been panned as 'lazy' but I could have seen TBC having a macro theme of an elven civil war with high elves for the alliance and blood elves for the horde.
>t. never played WC3

>You really think the scourge wouldn't maintain a military presence here?

But they do. They have half of the elven heartlands under full control and the city was under constant siege and was originally reclaimed between WC3 and TBC with Kael's new allies. I mean I don't see how just because the scourge owned something they couldn't be beaten back. Scarlet Crusade owns territory in all parts of the plague lands where the infestation was thickest and the scourge were in holding for like years while lich king manifested his new power.

>The fact that Kael and his people were in Lordaeron territory meant that they had nowhere else to go.

But they literally go to Outland in WC3 and get new allies with the Naga and Illidan. They come back in force after supplementing the sunwell's loss with fel magic.

>And they still have all of their land in the end.
Yea because they take it back and if you play a blood elf you have a hand in it.

>I really felt like majority of the Blood Elves went with Kael in Outland back when i played wc3.
Most do and when they reclaim part of their ancestral homeland most stay with Kael to fortify in Outland while supplying Silvermoon.

It went shit in Vanilla

Leave it up to a Yea Forumsbrain to screech about someone having a different opinion, fail to defend his point, and slink back into the crowd.

The lore went to shit with vanilla, not after.

Reminder Samwise is a complete hack and night elves are copied practically 1:1 from a monster in a a sailor moon episode

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I opened this up on the bus and the girl behind me got huffy and changed seats

Based post user, she was fat anyway

> Naaru are just plain trash and I hate them.

Why are they plain trash? I don't see how any aspect of them is inherently bad.

not a third set of playable races. just more zandalari style bullshitters to grind daily quests or turn on runic bear asses to for 4 weeks to get some shitty armor you grow out of in 2 days and a mount you ride twice ever.

>Le Tinker meme

> and was originally reclaimed between WC3 and TBC with Kael's new allies
This is where the problem lies. This should have been part of the quests. It's an important moment for Kael to come back, take back his capital etc.
>they couldn't be beaten back
Because at this point the scourge (like any other threat in WoW) is turning into a joke with defeats non stop.

>why the forsaken don't make them faint out of sheer disgust again?

Because they should have been Alteraci/Syndicate, with Nelves, Belves, and Forsaken being unaligned neutrals. Particularly Nelves considering Maiev vs Tyrande would have been good justification for letting the Nelves choose between Horde or Alliance, as far as the other two are concerned, Belves get kicked from their capital for siding with the alliance, and the Forsaken deal with a repgrind no matter what.

>Because at this point the scourge (like any other threat in WoW) is turning into a joke with defeats non stop.

I wouldn't really say so. The only canon defeat was at Naxx and some dead scourge generals (who were endlessly replaceable). Land only started being fully reclaimed starting in Cata and even the 'reclaimed' areas in vanilla/TBC were under constant attack.

>This is where the problem lies. This should have been part of the quests. It's an important moment for Kael to come back, take back his capital etc.

Yea. But that's my problem with a lot of WoW lore moments since they either happen in a book, in an expository line of quest text, or some short story on the website.

Both of these are factually correct.

Did BNet just shit the bed? I got kicked and can't log back in.

Nordrassil was a real world tree. Teldrassil was a wannabe world tree made by Fandral Staghelm only a short while after the events of WC3 in an attempt to regain their immortality and not even blessed by all the dragonflights. Teldrassil was always a bitch ass tree.

I wish all cumheads and tripfags would just leave.

Horde should just be Orcs, Trolls, Goblins and Ogres
Make Tauren part of a neutral Cenarion faction with Night Elves and Furbolgs

>keeping adding new raid tiers in classic+
>eventually a tier 9(classic) raider mage rolls up to the enemy base in AV and one-shots everything and everyone

Defeating Kel Thuzad, recovering Quel Thalas, were already huge.
The final nail is when Arthas himself arrives and gets BTFO by Tirion.
At this point there's no scourge threat anymore in EK.

hey can someone get the lore of this?

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nah bro there must ALWAYS be a lich king

btw have they even done anything with bolvar yet?

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I'd call it a victory but Northrend was always described as a hellscape dominated by countless undead legions to release on the world.

Then Wrath turned it all scooby doo.

After months of hard-working research about the tribes in Mulgore, I feel confident enough to share my discoverings about this racial group and how do they function in the clockwork machine that we call Azeroth.

Tauren's are an anthropomorphic race that displays features found in most of the Bovinae species. They move as bipeds, reaching one of the highest heights in the known world and are naturally predisposed to develop a bulky physique and pretty firm and long dicks. They are capable of various degrees of intelligence, but there are well known for their physical prowess and hard work capacity and also their disliking of the latter. Tauren's have a pretty long life span, and yet they have one of the highest mortality rates in all of Azeroth.

They are usually grouped in small villages that are then divided in ghettos, being the exception Thunderbluff, a large town in the top of a mountain. The terrain at Mulgore is mostly composed of meadows and Sabana, filled with feline predators, large size avians and other anthropomorphic creatures that I mention in other works. The flora is diverse and reaches in fruits and spices that the Tauren use in their traditional soul cooking.

Their diet is mostly composed of fried chicken with spices that they get from the local Tallstriders and Kodo burgers, although this last dish is less common as hunting a fierce Kodo takes several hunters and much work, something that the Taurens are not fond of. This diet is one of the causes of mortality among the Tauren as only small groups of them seek to consume roots and fruits to complement their daily nutrients, forcing now to all restaurants to show the caloric value of each item. The primary source of water in Mulgore comes from the water well that the Goblins created to recollect water, unfortunately, the Taurens do not know how to maintain these wells properly and they usually end up drinking contaminated water and blaming the undead race of racially motivated poisoning.

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This is where i can't take more.
Defeating Kil Jaeden, Illidan rule over Outland, Kel Thuzad is one thing.
Taking down Arthas is another.

the fuck is that

Why haven't they updated the questing experience yet? 90% of quests are the people banging on about deathwing, bet your average new retail 120 can't even tell you who deathwing is

You've forgotten that apparently their can be a half-tauren anything (confirmed by devs that all races can interbreed).

How does this work? How does human female x Tauren male equal viable hybrid? beats the shit out of me.

They said they'd never do an extensive update like Cata again because it uses too many resources for content that most of the community was vocal wasn't top priority.

Honestly their right, most retail players want to just skip to endgame and see leveling as an obstacle.

>How does this work? How does human female x Tauren male equal viable hybrid? beats the shit out of me.

You've never heard of HuCows?

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Is that where romaine lettuce comes from?

What is the bell for?

>human female x Tauren male
pleb, it's HuMale on FemTaur only

And you normies care about humans? What about those Night Elves milfs?

"Supringsinly they also have greats relations with the Night Elves, especially with the female ones as they both share a love for nature and conveniently, Night Elf males are often put in a deep slumber, leaving unsatisfied slim elf women with a lust for a thicc pack of muscle to ride. On the other and, Tauren females are the main form of defense against the elves in a war scenario as their hatred for "those pale skinny looking ass bitches taking our menz" is unmatched."

What you get from that?

A purple Tauren with weirdly long limbs.

But ingame none of this shit is around since degeneracy is low in pixar wow.