Dragon Quest is SHIT

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Based DQ snappy combat without any gimmicky trash.

>built on what it had
No it didn’t it hasn’t built on anything it’s still the same exact shit. I guess you don’t have to go into a menu to open doors anymore at least

The DQ11 demo on switch was my first experience of the series. Every single thing about it is fucking amazing, except the battle system, which is 95% of what you do in a jrpg. Idgaf what pedigree they have, it's fucking 2019, that shit doesn't fly anymore. Evolve or die out. Even rpgs from literally 15 years ago have more engaging gameplay. It's a shame such wonderful music, design, waifus, and artstyle are going to waste on this dreck. I'm not even mad, just sad I can't enjoy it.

HOLY BASED

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A-at least they let you move your characters around during battles even though it does nothing, r-right bros?

>Every single thing about it is fucking amazing
the blurry visuals?
the constant pop ins?
the instable framerate?
just get it on pc or ps4

Sold half as much as DQ11 and that gap is only gonna grow once 11s comes out. Besides, P5 is complete garbage compared to 3 and 4. Shouldn't have sold more than 5k copies.

>okay guys, let's make decent combat but fire all of our writers from the game

Pokemon.

Increase the difficulty you fucking retard. The combat is as good as the best JRPGs.

Pokemon has been going backwards since gen 4

>FF XIII is a trilogy of shit games in almost every way besides based Sazh
>FF XIV is absolute dogshit carried entirely by it's writing and art/music direction
>FF XV is a literal joke
Meanwhile DQ VIII is fantastic, DQ IX is fantastic and DQ XI is fantastic.

>complete garbage compared to 3/4
>they literally improved gameplay in every single aspect
Okay dude

>Decent combat
Guns are useless, and it's the same shit as 3 and 4 just with Psy and Nuclear.

Fucking hell they don't even carry over the Hama/Mudo fixes from IVA.

Final Fantasy went to shit when it ditched classic JRPG conventions in an attempt to try something new. Example: FF13 and FF15
Shin Megami Tensei has been regulated to handheld no budgets with the exception of Persona, who gets by by selling waifus
Mother series is dead.
The last two console Dragon Quest games: Dragon Quest 8 and 11, sold extremely well in the west because there IS a demand for well done high budget classic JRPGs because no one wants to make them anymore.

No it isn’t you delusional fucking moron, stop pretending something is good because it’s old and popular in some place thats thousands of miles away

Cool lies, bro, really radical. Gen 5 is the peak, but your nonesense about DQs "consistency of gameplay" being good when Pokemon is consistent as well means you are biased and full of shit.

That's why it's decent, not good, just decent
At least the attack animations do not take up to 10 seconds like P1 and 2

>forgetting about the pass baton mechanic

Even the actual fans have woken up to their shit with the next games

>When that gets boring lets add a mechanic that lets you deal extra damage depending on how well you can time A presses to the beat of the music.

>adding quick-time events to turn-based games
>this is someworthy of praise

And ATB is the shittiest combat system ever made, far worse than regular turn-based, so why would you even praise FF for that?

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Combat does get better, it's just 50 hours in, after you've unlocked interesting skills and the enemies require you to make harder decisions than AoE attack or heavy attack. The skill trees in this game are terrible, weird that they didn't change them for the update.

>handheld no budgets
that's only 4 and apocalypse though? And even if that was the case, how does that matter? The combat system is still better than Dragon Quest and it improves with every game

You are still dodging the issue.

>When that becomes boring lets add a system that gives you an extra turn whenever you hit an enemies weak point
Why would you cite this as a positive? The whole Press Turn/One More Turn system in SMT/Persona is fundamentally flawed. Think about it, you're already being rewarded for targeting the enemy's weakness by making them take more damage, and increasing the chance of landing the relevant status ailment (like freezing an enemy that's weak to ice). The only thing the Press Turn/One More Turn system does is artificially elevate one strategy above all others, by rewarding you even further with free turns/free attacks, making all other strategies inferior by default, even before you add Baton Pass to the formula. It's a complete no-brainer to exploit the enemy's weakness, with no downsides or risks, so why wouldn't you? The result is that it ends up greatly reducing combat depth, and it effectively means the outcome of most battles is decided as soon as they begin. And this is even before considering stuff like Baton Pass, which trivializes the gameplay even further.

I don't know what it says about the people at Atlus that they thought anyone needed such strong incentive to do something as incredibly obvious and straightforward as 'hit the glaring weak spot of the bad guys'.

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SMT/Persona post-PS2 era is heads and shoulders above DQ, hell the press turn combat system is probably the best out of any JRPG besides maybe Grandia

>adding quick-time events
>mother 3
Your picture suits you.

it's not really a QTA when you can decide when to start attacking. It's less QTA and more an evolution of Timed Hits from Mario.

Pokemon is not consistent, for the last 3 gens they've been adding a new retarded mechanic that they promptly drop

Dragon Quest is supposed to be nostalgiabait for Japanese boomers.

But OP, you've been a faggot for years. Why is it ok for you to stagnate? I mean, I bet your parents spent more on you than the average single Dragon Quest fan has ever spent on the franchise.

Buffs and whatnot usually take precedence before hitting weak spots. It’s incredibly satisfying and fun, far better than stock-standard JRPGs that usually just involve selecting your most powerful attacks on the boss and sometimes using buffs when the game gets a bit too difficult

Never had any of those problems. I can see that the detail and foliage density is scaled back, but you should probably stop shitposting you idiot snoy, it's not working.

Yeah, like Megas were dropped after XY... Oh wait. Also, abilities and held items, added more depth than anything in DQ without changing the gameplay loop. You dumb fucks can't cry that pokemon is "always the same thing", then suck of Dairy Queen for the same shit.

>Buffs and whatnot usually take precedence before hitting weak spots.
You're talking as if other RPGs don't have buffs. The buffs in SMT/Persona are actually pretty boring compared to buffs in other RPGs.

>far better than stock-standard JRPGs that usually just involve selecting your most powerful attacks on the boss and sometimes using buffs when the game gets a bit too difficult
That is what people do in SMT and Persona, too.

SMT peaked at the PS2 era though. Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga were great. Then the series became boring handheld titles that had nothing going for them except gameplay. RPGs need to have more than just solid battle systems.

Damn maybe the JRPG genre is kind of boring... woah...

Except SJ is the best

Kinda, but it's not uncommon for genre-inventing mascots in media

Felix the Cat and Oswald the Lucky Rabbit basically invented the classic animal cartoon character, restricted them to 6-minute short cartoons, and never did anything new with them. (Anyone who mentions the Felix the Cat movie should come to school tomorrow)

Super Mario invented (good) platforming games, and where is he now? Still jumping on goombas in 2D platforms to fight Bowser.

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Nah the 3DS games were great dude, especially SMT IV. I’ll never get over the post-apocalyptic japan setting

If we’re going by sales Final Fantasy blows Dragon Quest out of the water.

Smh why isn’t the bedsheet pulled tightly over the mattress

I've never understood why Japanese developers are so wedded to simplistic menu-based systems.

By contrast, western developers have made turn-based RPGs that seamlessly integrate stealth, sound propagation, level of illumination, destructablee environments and all sorts of other environmental interactions that allow for varied and fun tactical scenarios.

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>Dragon Quest:
Well, I'm not a fan either, but it fucking worked for them. They found their own niche and people buy these games for that particular experience.
I wish some other franchises stopped "evolving" too, like Elder Scrolls etc.

>Final Fantasy
Lost it's identity a long time ago.

>Shin Megami Tensei:
Literally the same shit as Dragon Quest. Recruiting demons has nothing to do with battle system itself, which is same agi agidyne etc every entry, you sidestepping retard.

>Mother
Is fucking dead since 15 years ago. Really couldn't find any better examples?

Pathetic.

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Final Fantasy's ATB was the worst shit ever, turn based combat doesn't need to be 'improved' or 'revolutionized'.

ATB was fine. But even the turn based FFs shit on DQ imo. Multiple attacks per round are cool.

>And when all of that gets boring as well, lets make shit real time with action combat but still quintessentially final fantasy
Not true at all, they're barely even recognizable as FF games now.

>ATB was fine
ATB is nothing more than a bastardization of turn-based combat, by adding a real-time element that means you can get attacked during your turn, thus defeating the whole point of using a turn-based system. This artificial time pressure also means the optimal strategy in 99.9% of battles is to mindlessly mash the (auto-)attack button as fast as possible before enemies can get any hits in.

It's also incredibly slow. In a normal turn-based game, you input your commands and they are executed. But in an ATB game, you first have to wait for the characters' ATB bars to slowly fill before you can input commands, and after they are executed, you have to wait again for them to fill before you can input new commands, over and over. Here is a good comparison:

Here is a random encounter in FF4
youtube.com/watch?v=oLgbqywWJcM

Here is a random encounter in Fallout
youtube.com/watch?v=RtN2fZhU2Ss

Despite your characters being massively overpowered, the random encounter in FF4 takes longer to complete than the random encounter in Fallout, which involves dozens of combatants with the ability to move around, so you'd think it take longer than FF4. And Fallout's combat system isn't even particularly fast, it's just that ATB is incredibly slow.

Jrpgs are shit anyway compared to golden wrpgs like Morrowind.

Morrowind is fucking trash lmao

-hopelessly generic NPCs who's dialogue system is entirely copy+pasted, almost all unique dialogue is only for people involved in quests
-copy+pasted dialogue is not even good/immersive, everyone talks like a GPS/wikipedia hybrid (this along with the above bullet point is my #1 problem with the game)
-HORRID combat, even after you get your skills set up so you don't miss anymore it just feels like shit and involves 0 actual skill, directional attacks are completely pointless because one of those attacks does more damage than the others no matter the situation
-Vivec city, the largest grouping of structures in Vvanderfall, is six identical, boring giant hut like buildings with copy+pasted interiors (interiors DO have some unique additions, but for the most part are copy+paste)
-travel system, esp. early on, is anti-fun incarnate, unless you like holding shift to walk around while you stare at the ugly swamp enviorns of the bitter coast
-speaking about graphics, the world itself has a decent amount of variety and art direction is actually great, but technically the models, textures and animations were ASS for the time, only the water was impressive
-Balmora is suppose to be divided into unique districts based around class but everything looks more or less the same throughout the town
-0 power or benefits to becoming guild leader, most guild NPCs won't even acknowledge you as the leader

Same I want to bring that art direction to America

Sometimes I get sick of modern JRPGs that load themselves with layer upon layer of convoluted systems that are completely irrelevant and I just want a generic as fuck JRPG with AAA production values. No other series really does that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

They all come with the option to turn up atb speed dude. Compare it to another jrpg not fallout.

Also that's end game shit in 4 and you're shitting on trash with good gear in fallout. Overall pretty dishonest comparison.

Morrowind is far from the peak of western games you fool. Play a CRPG.

Spamming normal attacks with mages/summoners is not really efficient

>just get it on pc or ps4
I would if this version of the game was released there

>This artificial time pressure also means the optimal strategy in 99.9% of battles is to mindlessly mash the (auto-)attack button as fast as possible before enemies can get any hits in.

To add to what this user is saying, ATB was one the earliest mechanics to introduce the concept of DPS to RPGs, which has been nothing but a detriment to a genre that typically focuses on interaction and diverse skillsets. It both saved and doomed the FF franchise by setting it apart from other JRPGs, but then created an environment where it's viable to avoid 90% of gameplay features/tools.

Of course, turn-based are also susceptible to Damage-per-turn mindsets to browbeat enemies, but that's usually a mark of a bad combat system in the first place. And it wasn't really a common strategy until most RPG developers lost their mind and start adding mass-stacking multipliers to everything.

>Spamming normal attacks with mages/summoners is not really efficient
It is when we're talking about how fast combat takes. Scrolling a menu to select a spell takes much longer than simply choosing attack.

A mage could one shot that group. You chose a fight where someone physically attacked enemies only vulnerable to magic. Almost memory cursor exists.

>They all come with the option to turn up atb speed dude.
You can't possibly be this ignorant, can you?

Contrary to popular belief, the ATB speed setting in these games doesn't make the ATB bars fill up faster, it only alters the delay enemies get between filling up their ATB and acting. That delay acts as a way to compensate for the 'human error', the time the player spends accessing menus to select actions, which is something the enemy AI obviously does not have to do.

Even if you set it to maximum, the shortening of that delay only increases the pace of battle very slightly, so it does little to solve the issue of ATB combat being painfully slow.

You know what turn-based game does have a speed slider that makes combat play out faster by speeding up animations? Fallout. And that video was just playing at the regular speed setting, not even the max one.

Yeah, it's slower than traditional turn- based JRPGs that have quick attack animations, but it's still retarded to compare it to Fallout. In any case, the core issue of JRPGs not having enough meaningful combat options goes deeper than the ATB system. If you don't like spamming attack for 40 hours you shouldn't be playing JRPGs to begin with.

Currently dying.

If everyone else tries to do something different and DQ remains the same, it's also unique.

Maybe you can try and play the game? Almost all of them had mechanics unique to them.

Pokemon has been fucking garbage since gen 5. Final fantasy has been a joke for years.

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normally I'd lambast a stagnating game series for its fundamental degeneracy but in this regressive age it may be best to refer to such games as "reliable" "a rock that resists the erosion of time" or "something the SJW devils have not yet corrupted" "Dragon Quest is something we can still believe in"

That's why Dragon Quest is a good series and there's no way to argue against it.

In some games it absolutely increases the fill speed you retard. You're thinking of active vs wait. I've probably played as many crpgs as you and far more jrpgs.

Dragon Quest has the best settings. Final Fantasy 1 had the right idea but then the series fucked it up.
SMT is just Doom but boring.

This guy gets it.

X is fantastic too

>next to no changes at all in terms of gameplay, characterization, or story
Confirmed for having never played more than one DQ game.

I honestly had more fun with 13 than DQ8. 14 as well.

Not him, but I take small steps rather than total conversions(Compare FF10, 12, 13 and 15 with each other)
Lets keep DQ as DQ and not chase after current popular trends, eh?

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You can't say the same for the characters and story

Every new Final Fantasy is essentially an RE6 for Squenix. They sink so much money in them for graphics, flashy gameplay and of course, advertising, that when the game comes out and sells 5 million copies, they just barely manage to scrape by.

>final fantasy
>revolutionize the genre
Already stopped reading.

Pmt
The budgets for the games are ridiculous. They even had to sell story content on FF15 as DLC which is laughable
And weren't some DLC completely scrapped because of budget problems or do I remember wrong?

Pokemon won, emphasis on past tense
>let's make something new, where you can catch over a hundred different party members and they even evolve into different ones
>that was a success, let's do it again but with twice the content
>great going, let's expand the scope of the story and add abilities so the combat gets even more in-depth
>that worked, let's do it again
>that worked, let's do it again and a little more story emphasis
>that worked, let's do it again but in 3D and a lot more story emphasis
>the series is getting stale, what if we replaced the same old 8 gyms with all-unique trials capped with tough boss pokemon?
>okay that was a success, let's revert back to the old formula but with less context, we'll tell them it's because of animations or something

If I want to play games with different battle systems I'll play different games, not everything has to change.

>Dragon Quest 1 laid the ground work
>2 added the Party system
>3 added the Class system and customizable parties (as well as being revolutionary for video game storytelling in Japan)
>4 vastly improved on the party system and added auto battle (an achievement for the NES)
>5 added a monster catching mechanic which Pokemon would later steal, and it evolved into its own spin-off. 5 also is the first game to not feature a 'Chosen One' as a protagonist, a trend which would continue until 11
>6 added the Vocation system and expanded on the monster catching mechanic
>7 added Party Chat
>8 added Alchemy and Tension
>9 laid the groundwork for a MMORPG
>10 is a MMORPG that launched on the fucking Wii of all things and is still successful to this day
>11 is a purposeful callback to the original trilogy, which is why it's the first game since 4 to utilize a chosen one as a protagonist

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>>that worked, let's do it again but in 3D and a lot more story emphasis
Did you mean: condescending accessibility emphasis
Because that's what killed pokemon, and really the roots of it were in BW, as a kneejerk reaction to complaints about HGSS and Platinum.

Restart it and put on hard monsters, also lower XP from weak monsters if you are feeling spicy

>Let's completely revolutionize the genre by adding a real time element to combat
FF didn't do that first, nor did it revolutionize anything, the magic system in FF8 is garbage like the rest of the series (unless you mean Junction, which isn't a magic system) and trance mode is also garbage nobody really ripped off, nor was it the first game to do that kind of shit, it's a garbage moviegame series for casuals.
>>okay guys I want us to be different from the competition, lets have a totally unique setting
SMT has always been a Wizardry clone until Press Turn made it a tiny bit less so and demon recruiting had already been made by Wizardry too, meanwhile Demon Fusion has been progressively dumbed down since the PS2 titles with SJ being kind of an exception, so I don't know what you're talking about.
>Mother series:
Literally gimmicky, quirky Dragon Quest.
>lets make the exact same fucking game for 30 years in a row with next to no changes at all
Except DQ had plenty of changes, and you should know since FF never missed the chance to rip it off for years, consistency is also not a bad thing, it creates an identity for the series more than a bunch of mascots and names do, just like SMT did, SMT is much more stale than DQ is ironically, since DQ tried anything from premade characters to job systems or completely customizable characters, which SMT never, ever even attempted, not even in the spin offs like DeSu.

And I say this as somebody who really can't stand DQ.

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>>okay guys we pretty much invented the Japanese Roleplaying genre.
Copying wrpg and diluting it even further is not inventing something new.

>a real time element to combat

which means shit when it's this

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FF: flashy this that adds nothing. Make the numbers huge for no reason. First battle in FFXIII has you doing like 5000 damage because the game is for retards.
DQ: incremental subtle developments that deepen the already finely-tuned gameplay that they then dispose of in favour of something new for the next game

OP BTFO suck my dick

8’s Hero was a choosen one too, you just don’t find out until the post game

How come nobody cares that series like Zelda, Monster Hunter, Yakuza, and Pokemon never change their gameplay, but think Dragon Quest has an issue?

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>tfw nips managed to make the best combat system with Grandia 2
>fucking no one copies it
Fucking nip retards.

>fighting some guys in FFVII
>dealing 4758 damage or some shit
>meet the big bad early in DQ
>dealing only around 200~ damage per hit
What is FF's obsession with trying to make every enemy take 9999 damage.

>DQ: incremental subtle developments that deepen the already finely-tuned gameplay that they then dispose of in favour of something new for the next game
>use buff/debuff
>ICE WAVE ICE WAVE ICE WAVE ICE WAVE
Nice combat system you got there.

I bet it was hard work to create.

>Grandia games
>Good combat

True, despite nips working lots of hours, their productivity is shit compared to other countries like Germany for example.

The very best, actually. Even Grandia III, being a shit game and all, it has got stellar gameplay.
The only real contest is against FFX-2. Not X, X-2 alone, rest is a fucking turd.

>The only real contest is against FFX-2.
I can stop taking you seriously then.

Western pigs should just keep playing their sjw craps.

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Lol at pretending DQ is deep. Neither is FF but DQ is a joke. Also naming your spells after onomatopoeia is retarded.

Who are you quoting?

If you think DQ never changed its game play throughout its tenure then you've obviously never played the series. It's always changed its mechanics enough to justify having a sequel. It is THE jrpg and it knows it's place, leaving it to having a unique place in the market. An itch no other can scratch, at least not as well.

>playing dq5 (ds edition)
>it's boring and braindead
i gave up after time skip where your kids grow up

>SMT: shit and ded
Double wrong, double faggot

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Personashit doesn't count
Your game is dead
Good luck having at least crumbs of news

SMT 5 when faggot?

2029

itt

plebs

Final Fantasy
>let's ruin our series and shit on everybody our games and got us here because some manchild called our battle system "stale," oh look now the series is a laughing stock with zero sense of what it wants to be and even Conan O Brien went out of his way to shit on it it's so bad.

Yakuza literally just changed its gameplay

>no DQV
My wife Deborah is still pure.

You have countless other series to play. Why don't you let DQ fans have this one?

I like DQ but I hear the composer is a piece of shit? Is there a particular reason why he isn't liked?

I don't care about his politics but his music is fucking awful and doesn't fit the scene.

Denies war crimes
Hates fags
Hates foreigners (It's why XI had MIDI's in the NA PS4 release)

>>Dragon Quest 1 laid the ground work
added the Party system
added the Class system and customizable parties (as well as being revolutionary for video game storytelling in Japan)
vastly improved on the party system and added auto battle (an achievement for the NES)

>taking multiple games to implement basic RPG features
>this is somehow worthy of praise

And everybody hates it.

Both builders games were fun though

music makes your ears bleed

It created those features you fucking retard

The series has been shit until 2017.

DQXI is probably the only good game in the series, it took them a long time to create a good game, but hopefully they keep improving the formula and not going backwards.

XII could give us a smaller party through, like 5-6 characters rather than 8 from XI, some characters barely got devolopemnt in XI (Erik, Rab and Hendrick mostly)

No one actually has a issue, it's mainly just shitposters. The point of DQ is that they're just solid JRPGs that tell a decent to long story as a slow burner. They occasionally try new things out, but part of the charm I'd argue is that while the story changes, you see the iconic DQ shit like the casinos, the metal slimes, etc.

DQ sells well because it doesn't do any super crazy bullshit and is just polished. It's relaxing to just level up, kill monsters, enjoy a fairly lighthearted story, and take your time with it.

You can always play other games if you want something to be shaken up, I don't know why people want DQ make dramatic changes.

t. baka gaijin that doesn't realize it's SUPPOSED to be shit because muh traditions.

I don't

>It created those features you fucking retard

Almost every RPG made before DQ had party members and a class system.

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youtube.com/watch?v=B_NS5oEQQZM

seething

Dragon Quest was literally the first

Difference is that DQ did it on a console with the memory of a modern day microwave and two buttons.

Decent song, probably paired up to someone watching their mother die or something. This guy clearly has no idea what's happening in the scene he writes music for.

So... Dragon Quest is Pokemon?

I love dragon quest but no it wasn't. Early Dragon Quest was literally just simplifying the Utlima series for a japanese console audience.

One of them is

>Difference is that DQ did it on a console
The RPGs I referred to also came out on consoles.

Ultima didn't get on the NES till years after DQ started up retard.
In addition, DQ refined the gameplay found in those games to be playable for non-autists.

ancient meme

>NES is the only console that has ever existed
You can't possibly be this stupid, can you?

>In addition, DQ refined the gameplay found in those games to be playable for non-autists.
If by 'refine' you mean vastly simplifying everything from exploration to combat to world building to appeal to 4-year olds, then sure.

>You can't possibly be this stupid, can you?
Home computers aren't consoles dipshit. Atari 800, Commodore, MSX, etc., all fucking home computers.
The first game to get a console port was Ultima III, which came out AFTER Dragon Quest III was released on the NES.
>If by 'refine' you mean vastly simplifying everything from exploration to combat to world building to appeal to 4-year olds, then sure.
To seek broader appeal and make the thing work on a console with two buttons and shit for memory, yes.
Now can you stop going to these threads, posting "Muh Ultima" and singling out one JRPG just because you're mad about Smash or some shit.

Wasn't there a Gameboy spinoff that did that?

V has monster catching

Persona 4 had better story and characters and seeing how the game is pretty much a dating sim with so-so combat even on the hardest difficulty I think that's what matters the most

Shut the fuck up casual ass smashfag

Ultima = Wizardry >>>>>>>>>>> all the JRPGs they inspired