The eternal debate

Can we finally admit that Bloodstained wasn't very good?

I will never stop commenting on that fact. You fueling me with your butthurt (You) only makes it funnier.

reddit might be more your guys' speed.

Shit genre

They're both great and I enjoy them both.

>2D platformer
>Souls-like

Attached: brainletWatermill.gif (395x520, 1.69M)

theres no debate here.

Attached: 1552942480287.jpg (400x328, 27K)

Bloodstained is superior

Hk is boring as shit but for some reason is praised like botw which is boring too but for metroidvanias

Attached: 679765453546.jpg (1440x1440, 600K)

Obsessed.

>plataformer
>metroidvania

Attached: what.jpg (213x210, 23K)

Based retard.

Attached: Screen Shot 2019-09-02 at 10.03.36 PM.png (736x52, 19K)

so salt and sanctuary is a metroidvania and not a souls like?
yep, genius

Based retard.

Attached: Screen Shot 2019-09-02 at 10.07.03 PM.png (1892x442, 254K)

Bloodstained looks like shit and Castlevania post NES is garbage
Don’t (You) me

Attached: 91109593-78BB-47A4-8AFC-4A094DDCE116.jpg (771x807, 96K)

>Bloodstained looks like shi-

Attached: bloodstained-ritual-of-the-night-wallpaper-5.jpg (1920x1080, 558K)

>anything 2d is a metroidvania

Attached: What do.jpg (720x743, 48K)

> bloodstained is a metroidvania because you explore a world with unified themes yet divided into a myriad of unique environments (like metroid and castlevania) collecting powers and "let me through this fucking door and have no other purpose" items (like metroid and castlevania) in slow-paced platforming with weighty-feeling movement (like castlevania)
> hollow knight isn't a metroidvania because you explore a world with unified themes yet divided into a myriad of unique environments (like metroid and castlevania) collecting powers and at most only one or two "let me through" items (like metroid and castlevania) in faster-paced platforming with featherweight platforming and versatile melee combat (like metroid and castlevania but improved)...
> oops the death mechanic is sort of like a Souls game so it doesn't count
You are the biggest retard in this thread.

Repetition of the same post for the hundredth time
Boring af

There's "contrarian" and then there's "essentially claiming an entire genre came into existence for no reason". You're the second category. Give up. Post-NES castlevania has objective merit.

>focus on bosses
>very limited hits
>estus mechanic
>lack of map
>souls-like currency
>no lvl/irrelevant

result: souls like with a tad of plataforming

I'm (You)ing (You) because Rondo is peak CV

>focus on bosses
This right here disqualifies it from being like Souls.

Cuckstained was garbage and people only bought it because they thought Iga actually made SotN, despite the fact that he joined after the game was halfway through development.

Hollow Knight is a better game, but I actually don't like the aesthetics. I get it's what they're going for, but every area felt kind of samey to me, whereas even with its janky animation Bloodstained had more memorable areas and some pretty nice setpieces.

>focus on bosses
>estus mechanic
>lack of map
It has none of those things

>no lvl/irrelevant
Metroid is soulslike?

I like both

Attached: 1566330972559.png (532x582, 514K)

> focus on bosses
Have you... actually... played a Souls game? Or are you just shitposting?
> limited hits
You mean you can't just spam your attack at a boss and have to wait for it to be open? That's not a negative in any respect.
> estus mechanic
Forget about the Crystal Flash and Alucard's self healing magics, did we?
> lack of map
Only because you're a retard.
> currency
SotN is a soulslike?
> no level
Stop the presses, this genre doesn't actually exist! It's all soulslike!

Anyone who unironically uses 'Souls-like' as a genre needs to leave this board.

Attached: plasticLove.png (990x992, 593K)

He means Hollow Knight, not SotN

Bloodstained wasn't even that good, just beat it a few days ago.

Good
>Being a collectathon
Peak collecting + grinding
>Actually having more than one optional superboss
Like the idea of them, actually gave a decent post-game outside of grinding.

Bad
>Bosses
To add, later bosses would be a bit more fun, but they didn't really balance for Invert, except Gremony
>Music
Can't remember a damn theme
>Good stuff way too early
Welcome Company, Directional Shield, Bunnymorphesis and DRILL ARM can be gotten way too early and are all very good and obtained early. Didn't feel like this was a major issue in other IGA games

Ugly
>Castle design
What in the fuck was up with the design in this one? Invert was a cool idea, but as said previously think they didn't balance bosses around it. The weird as settings inside a castle just didn't blend well.
>A buggy mess
Most got patched, but it is still a fucking mess in bosses and general exploration, moreso than other games.

For fans, I guess its somewhat peak IGA-vania, but I really felt mixed about it. Though OoC and Timerspinners, but fuck the wack -ass gender/sex convos, I did need nor want a 10 min convo about who likes to fuck who, what a shitty reward were way better.

Hollow Knight is an example if they took the Metroidvania genre and push into to new directions, Bloodstained is if you play it safe and only change alittle. Both are fine, but tend to be for different audiences.

Why not both?

I like hollow knight better though.

I was talking about Hollow Knight too, user.
The Souls games aren't focused on bosses. If they were, you wouldn't be able to parry, because how many bosses let you?
Hollow Knight limits your attacks on bosses.
Crystal Flash is an example of self-healing at a (renewable) cost from Super Metroid, Alucard's healing magic should be obvious.
Hollow Knight only lacks a map if you fail to find it.
Symphony of the Night has currency, negating any claim that currency makes a game less of a metroidvania.
Metroid as a series doesn't have levels, negating any claim that leveling makes a game a metroidvania.
Basically, I picked apart every reason he claimed Hollow Knight wasn't a metroidvania.

And Environmental Station Alpha is better than both of them.

Based.

>The Souls games aren't focused on bosses
ok you don't know what are you talking about

>explore a world with unified themes yet divided into a myriad of unique environments (like metroid and castlevania) collecting powers and at most only one or two "let me through" items (like metroid and castlevania) in faster-paced platforming with featherweight platforming and versatile melee combat

Dark souls is a metroidvania!

Attached: so-a-baby-walks-into-a-tech-conference-confronting-maternal-bias-in-the-software-industry-10-638.jpg (638x479, 96K)

The Souls games did pioneer the "return to place of your death to reclaim stuff" mechanic.

Just admit that you've never played a Souls game, user.

Souls games are unironically 3D Metroidvanias

But they're not in the slightest.

yep, what would i know about it...

Attached: ss.png (621x697, 359K)

>pioneer the "return to place of your death to reclaim stuff" mechanic.
That would be RuneScape.

They are though.

> the Souls games are focused on bosses user!
> but there's a major combat mechanic that's literally useless against them
> and many tactics enemies teach you that are unhelpful against bosses
At most it's a 50/50 split. Bosses are not the main focus and that's final.

> collecting powers and at most only one or two "let me through" items
In Souls games you collect equipment to kill enemies better (not through new mechanics, just through better numbers) and items that let you through places on occasion. You aren't dripfed new, discrete combat and movement mechanics throughout the game, which is the requirement for a metroidvania.

Attached: 39jlcl.jpg (620x465, 91K)

Now show me it in motion
Not when Metroid and innumerable indie games do the same thing but better in every way
Rondo is honorary Classicvania

Attached: F5C1EBA9-15DF-4246-91A4-FFEA9EC88A07.jpg (800x475, 117K)

They're not.

Miriam > Hollow Shit

SotN is half of the origin of Metroidvanias. You can't claim Metroid is the only one that actually had worth or the genre would be called "Metroid-like".

Would you be willing to provide some arguments to this claim? I agree with the other user though I'd still like to hear what you have to say.

Based and Miriampilled.

Attached: cuteMiriam.png (1748x2480, 3.19M)

Attached: 15847.png (1403x77, 14K)

the only intelligent thing said ITT

Hollow Knight is a serviceable character, but you're right, I really wish they'd put more budget into the characters at least.

Because they lack the fundamental elements of Metroidvanias.

Such as?

what? lack of a vertical jump?
cmon nigga...

One has waifus the other has bugs.
Its easy

Attached: bloodstained_miriam_commission_by_ragecndy_dbwuchr-pre.jpg (730x1095, 68K)

Movement augmentations that re-contextualize the game world.

No, I think he's right. The fundamental part of a Metroidvania is that new mechanics are explicitly introduced throughout the game.
Super Metroid gives you the morph ball, wall sliding/jumping, freezing weaponry, and such over time. These open up new areas for exploration by letting you move better.
Souls games give you better stuff to kill enemies with, not usually being the ONLY way to get to new areas- anything's theoretically possible if you're a literal god who can kill everything with whatever garbage you have on hand. And they never let you into new areas by introducing new movement mechanics.

HK simply because I can look at it without vomiting. I'll never play bloodstained simply because it's the ugliest game I've ever had the displeasure of looking at.

Not the same guy, but I'd say like of abilities that allow you the travel to new areas is the biggest difference. This is replaced by keys, but it just isn't the same as getting a new ability/action.

Also backtracking is super hit-n-miss with the souls games. They biggest similarity is the feeling of exploration and the collecting of shit. So it's close, but not quite a metroidvania.

>So it's close
Not in the slightest. If Dark Souls is close, then Resident Evil and Zelda are also close, but we all know how ridiculous that sounds.

you have to be mentally damaged to think Bloodstained is a better game than Hollow knight

resident evil and zelda is also a souls-like and therefore is also a metroidvania, fuck it why not at this point....

There’s a reason is “Metroid”vania and not Castleroid, user :^)

Tetris 99 >>>>>>>>>

let's settle this
strawpoll.me/18583980

Shallow Knight was boring. Everything looked the same all the time.

You make a good point, thanks for elaborating on it. Though I'll just say that the Japanese term for metroidvania genre is tansaku, meaning search/exploration. The two series, CV/Metroid are used as examples of the genre, but not rules.

Agree

it's the only way an autist can genuinely start a conversation and actually be engaged in it

Psst: Castlevania II: Simon's Quest did the "Metroidvania" before Symphony of the Night.

Attached: Castlevania2CompleteMapB.png (5103x2840, 2.62M)

t

This.

To be fair, I only voted Hollow Knight because it looks a million times better with less than a hundredth of the budget. I feel like that deserves the vote by itself.

Attached: file.png (647x308, 26K)

actually its probably fucking ACfag
hes autistic and starts flame wars on all kinds of games

>Though I'll just say that the Japanese term for metroidvania genre is tansaku, meaning search/exploration
Fucking hell, can we start using this? "Metroidvania" is fucking retarded and only makes sense when talking about Castlevania games that play like Metroid.

Attached: .png (600x774, 424K)

Resident Evil has a greater focus on survival and resource management. Zelda does have exploration, but puzzle solving and segmented linear dungeon crawling are more prominent there.

There's almost always a thin line when talking about genres as a lot of games use more than a single concept in their gameplay execution, I think a determining factor is where the main focus or the bulk of the game is.

REmake has more non-linear exploration than DS2, BB, and DS3.

Attached: alvaCup.png (1040x1040, 525K)

Both games are good but I liked HK more if I'm gonna be honest

Nah, ACfag has a certain style. That is, he posts a Zero Suit Samus butt picture, then replies to his own post bitching about it in the most retarded manner possible (Samus should be a robot, people only like Samus because they fap to her, everyone on Yea Forums loves Other M, etc.), inciting others to call him out for being a moron, repeat.

This guy is just a common loser.

Hollow Knight is clearly both a metroidvania and a souls-like

>Souls-like

Attached: 1509551930994.jpg (645x729, 26K)

It's a metroidvania with a mechanic that could be considered, PARTIALLY, "borrowed from Souls".

It means similar to souls games, since you're having trouble

I wish the same, but it's hard to change something once it's set in stone, especially for a longer period of time.
It's like how Character Action Game term has been accepted over something much simpler like Stylish Action
Exploration is undoubtedly a part of some of the RE games and the genre lines are certainly blurred there. However, and I know this is not the the best example, it's similar to how an Action RPG could be called an Adventure Game as well. Then again, most games could be called adventure games.

The genre names are there to help us better categorize the games based on what their most prominent features are.

It's not similar to Souls at all. In fact, the devs never even played Dark Souls and said their primary inspiration was Zelda II.

western indies are always fucking ridiculously overrated

westerners always do that shit. i cant understand their standards at all.

Therefore souls-like
It's clearly influenced by dark souls at least partially

The truth had been spoken

>western indies are always fucking ridiculously underrated
ftfy

>It's not similar to Souls at all
I mean, that's blatantly false

I had no idea that the creators of Diablo were time travelers who were somehow inspired by games that came out many years later.

Dark Souls actually invented video games.

Did games actually pick up that mechanic after Diablo or did we see an uptick of that mechanics after Souls blew up?

Hollow Knight wins no contest. Bloodstained is somewhat good but nowhere near.

Minecraft picked it up.

>Moving goalposts

Attached: Now that's what I call a yikes.jpg (371x328, 43K)