Sonic Mania is the best 2d S-

>I'm just the kind of guy who'd probably end up preferring the "Best Hits" Album to an actual full cohesive album.
awful taste

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I have a bigger problem with the fact that there are no hard mode versions of the bossfights.

Special stages in mania are 100x more fair and enjoyable than blue sphere

>more enjoyable
Sure.
>more fair
Blue Sphere is like the easiest classic special stage.

>muh real sonic game
cope

Gay

Mania special stages > Blue Sphere > Sonic CD special stages higher in concept but fuck actually hitting the UFO's > S3&K bonus stages > Sonic 1 mazes >>>>>>> Sonic 2 special stages

And yet most special stages most resemble Sonic 2's...

Visually they're the most iconic, but the gameplay just boils down to memorization.

2 is better

Oh god it's this guy again

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Yeah, why are we trying to turn this into a rivalry again? They're both fantastic for their own reasons. Nothing really more that needs to be said.

>only six zones
>maps loaded with incomplete routes that you can never visit with Sonic or Tails

This game is a rushjob. How can this be your favorite Sonic game?

S3&K didn't let you do anything out of a glide cancel either, but okay.

Why am I the only one the like sonic 1 special stage? Its simple, fun, fair, no silly pseudo 3D slippery slidy movement shit like mania/CD/advance 2. Not bullshit like sonic 2's, though that one is probably the coolest in concept at least. And its not like Blue Spheres which is so dang monotonous in the enviroment, borning and can get pretty dang bullshitty at times. Anyway, its weird how people talk up how Sonic is about pinball physics and shit yet dislike the one special stage that is actually about pinball physics.

Oh Sonic 3's bonus stage was also pretty good too. Honestly that thing being reused in Titan Monarch Act 1 was what made it my favorite stage.

Mania Plus > 3&K > Mania
The extra content was just enough to push it over the top.

I really liked Sonic Mania, but I find it strange how nobody ever talks about the obvious flaws of the game.
They still expect you to do semi-precise platforming while the gameplay is clearly isn't meant for that.

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Most likely because they've all been talked about years ago desu

I agree with this one. It's more intuitive than sonic 1's and sonic 2's. 3 is kinda meh, and CD can be fun but it feels inconsistent.

I liked 1's special stages too.

How do you figure that? The game handles platforming fine.

>post some nigger shit rom

yeah Nah. S&K3 forever

That doesnt stop people when it comes to numerous other sonic games.

>nigger shit rom
that's... a new one.

I don't like this.

Make way for my shit taste in 2D Sonic games.
S3&K > Advance 3 > Mania > Advance 1 > Sonic 3 (Standalone) > Rush > 2 > Sonic & Knuckles (Standalone) > CD > Advance 2 > 1 > Rush Adventure

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Post music

youtube.com/watch?v=hYxlqTpZ-24

youtu.be/sl8IIjS9PjE

So what's the best version?

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PC with easy mode :^)

title screen wise? sonic and knuckles

you're a weirdo

yes it does, please see around 15/16 seconds into this video
youtube.com/watch?v=XmTPzXGbNpE&t=15s

knuckles clearly glides for a second, lands with the same kind of recovery he has in mania, but then instantly goes into a spindash. you can't do this with that kind of speed in mania, there's a huge delay between landing and being able to spin

now, this video is techncially from 3&K and not s3&k, but it works when you combine the games as well. it doesn't really work the same when you lock on sonic 2 though.

youtube.com/watch?v=NRPNGi_cPAk

sonic and knuckles has better levels and no tails

what about game-wise?

Complete, though Angel Island Revisited only comes a little short. And you can mod the sprite fixes into the latter at least.

>calls me the weirdo
>is literally the ONLY person I ever see get this autistic about this in the whole sonic fandom
ok...

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I'm bias and going with sonic 3 and knuckles cause that's what I had the most fun with when the games first came out

>1’s special stages better than 2
No

If this is the most autistic person you've met in the Sonic fanbase, count yourself lucky and GET THE FUCK OUT NOW

hype music

youtube.com/watch?v=evv880dDOdk

It's just crazy how he's the only one I ever see get riled up about such a small change, I don't even see other 3&K purists get this bad.

>no Tails
That’s a plus?

Sonic Mania has better levels
Sonic 3 & Knuckles has better bosses

imagine calling anyone autistic when you read sonic the hedgehog comics lmfao

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At least is about fucking gameplay, especially minor physic/speed changes in a speed orientated game, instead of fucking character relationships.

tails fucking sucks, so yes

>calling me out for an image I grabbed at random
I think you're just sore for getting called out desu

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exual sonic VN

I feel like mania has a better idea of what its trying to do than 3&k at all other times, but I'd unironically rather play sandopolis 2 than slow ass Hydrocity 1 or act 2's 6 hour long boss. Dear lord Hydrocity sucks in mania, its the only zone I ever use super forms in.

Welp, I'm dumb. Feels more like the kind of thing sonic team would miss more than Christian. I honestly thought you meant recurling in midair though.

>It's just crazy how he's the only one I ever see get riled up about such a small change
why are you assuming that only one person on an anonymous forum has an opinion? If archives weren't down I could pull up all kinds of threads from release of people pointing out that knuckles feels way more gimped compared to sonic 3 because now whenever you glide (more or less the thing that makes him unique in mania since his alternate paths have been heavily reduced) you have to throw your speed in the trash as it completely removes any ability to keep momentum going, the main thing that makes a sonic game fun.

you can still do some cute stuff with superglides but that's not really enough to justify having a lower jump height than everyone else, especially when ray doesn't have that weakness and has a way better glide

Explain

I just don't see how it ruins the game, man. Yeah sure it would be better if it was changed, and I do agree that his campaign is not as fleshed out this time around but I fucking loved 3&K for many years and really did not care this hard when Mania came out. I'm sorry for being different I guess.

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Mania levels and bosses drag on for too long and feel very samey. Music also lacks character and it feels more like a greatest hits album than its own thing.
Being a tie-in with the worst 3D Sonic game doesn't help either.

his flying is stupid because it ruins the whole point of sonic, instead of having to build up momentum and have an understanding of the stage in order to stay on the top, you can just fly up there. this is why the adventure games had no idea what to do with him. also in the newer shitty sonic games he consistently has a voice even more annoying than everyone else

he was only created so people could mash buttons on the p2 controller when their brother didnt want to stop playing sonic 2.

>I just don't see how it ruins the game, man.
don't put words in my mouth. my point has always been that it seems bizarre to be all about copying the genesis sonic games as much as possible, including shitty things like transforming not being it's own button or having to input elaborate sound test codes for stuff that should probably just be menu options you can toggle to do stuff like debug mode or sonic with all his abilities at the same time

and then overlook something you can notice by playing the two games for 5 minutes. anyone playing these games, just load up the two games side by side and notice how quickly you can start running after landing from a glide. you don't even need to do anything fancy to see that it slows you down (in a sonic game) way more.

I respectfully disagree, I'm afraid.
the only bosses I'll give you is Studiopolis 1 and Hydrocity 2.

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>Music also lacks character and it feels more like a greatest hits album than its own thing
Yeah, it's the game is a greatest hits album on its own.
The music doesn't "lack character" though. It's oozing with it.

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>Mania levels...drag on

I'd say this is only true for the final two levels.

>bosses drag on

Not really they don't take anymore hits than usual.

>Music lacks character

Shit taste.

>Feels like a greatest hits

This is true. They should have allowed them more freedom in making original stages and fuck having Green Hill again.

>Tie-in to Forces

Not an a sound argument against Mania.

Not him, but sonic levels are designed in such a way that flying only helps when either you fuck up, or you're too lazy to get to an upper route in a way other characters can already access without flight. The flight itself is slow as shit vertically, and you sacrifice sonic's shield boosts that flow better, drop dash/Insta shield, and doomsday/egg reverie just for a lame crutch.

People just aren't used to not being able to cheese bosses in less than 7 seconds anymore like 1, 2 and 3. Why do you think people always get mad at CD's bosses.

Fuck wrong reply

Is there any hope for a Mania 2 with all original stages?

>The music doesn't "lack character" though. It's oozing with it.
Just compare
youtube.com/watch?v=tGqmtzzXYqY
to
youtube.com/watch?v=SrCgjGnlQRQ
It clearly lacks a punch and soul

>Why do you think people always get mad at CD's bosses.
because they suck much like everything about cd besides the soundtrack and metal sonic

>implying mania is soulless
oh boy here we go...

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>ruins the whole point of Sonic
Does he though? His flying is useful for getting on some platforms but it is fairly slow and he can only do it for a few seconds. It’s easier to just built up momentum like Sonic than it is to just fly everywhere. I’d say his abilities compliments the game more than anything.

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Sonic 3 and knuckles removed the amazing mid boss music from sonic 3 tho.

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It kinda is. Or maybe soulless it's not the right term.
It just feels like a fangame to me that is not brave enough to try anything new and heavily relies on obscure "MEMEBER THAT OBSCURE THING? XD" shit and it gets old fast, on top of aging like milk.

I just want a new classic Sonic game that actually tries to be original and not another
>MEMBER GREEN HILL ZONE?

Mania Chemical Plant Act 2 is way better anyways

name one thing that makes CD's gameplay good that isn't one of the two things I said or something that's fundamental to all sonic games you can get anywhere.

what makes CD itself worth playing?

Now compare it to this
youtube.com/watch?v=YO5n6FUcwDA
In the cases where he was forced to just remake the theme, he always did it building up to a completely original version of the tune, like what he did with Green Hill (In this case, it's a far superior track)
Also, there are zones where the mania themes just fistfuck the originals entirely. The Sonic CD ones being good examples, but my favorite being the work of art he did with Lava Reef.
youtube.com/watch?v=NuOHHu86pms
Even just adding a repeat at the breakdown does a LOT to fix the wonky pace of the original.
And that's not even the better one:
youtube.com/watch?v=RW-td9uPBe0

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>name one thing that makes CD's gameplay good
Super Peel Out and its animation, partial removal of speed cap and having air control after jumping from a rolling state.

>what makes CD itself worth playing?
It was directed by the real father of Sonic and it has top tier aesthetics, music and character.

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Look, I understand your issue, but you really gotta understand that at the end of the day, it is an anniversary title, and the mandates were pretty strong with this one. The 4 new zones should be an honest implication the team really would like to do something all new if they could because they're probably the best part of the game, I just think they did a very commendable job with sega breathing down their neck this hard. Would a completely new game be better? Of course, that's not hard to agree with. I just am personally not bothered because again, it IS an anniversary title, and it did its job pretty well.

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Then play Complete or AIR and toggle it back on.

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Still sounds like an amateur 'what if' fan remix.
People need to stop sucking Tee Lopez' dick.

Fuck this noise. What are your favorite bugs or fuck ups from any version of S3? I find myself always doing that one bug in LLZ1 that lets you mess shit up royally, it's so fun to do.

Is it just me, or did PGZ2 have a REALLY strong Freedom Planet vibe? My gf pointed that out and now I can't stop thinking about it.

Okay. Why? I want you to put your feelings into words and explain yourself.

Based Fishmans poster

Don't worry, i thought the same thing, Titanic Monarch also made me kinda think of Thermal base from the coloring, so that was cool.
youtu.be/lHC3rl9_lpo

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It's hard to describe music with words, but the synthetic "jazzy" thing he has going or the intrument he uses make every song sounds too similar to me.

>People need to stop sucking Tee Lopez' dick
There's no need to be that way, user...

Sonic 3D Blast Genesis Version is my favorite Sonic game.

youtube.com/watch?v=rhnw1BYSi1o

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with Sonic Spinball.

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with director's cut

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What are your thoughts on the Director's Cut version?

Director's cut is nice and all, but I really hate that they nerfed it to only let you get one emerald per zone.
I hated the dimps games for that very reason.

It is a pretty bad taste, I'll admit. I'll work on refining it.

Wouldn't surprise me if they took SOME inspiration from FP. For a while, it was the closest we got to a new 2D Sonic. FP2 feels like it's never gonna happen.

I guess that's fair. I disagree with your stance, since I'm a sucker for funk stylings, so a biting horn section does it for me, but I can see it's not for everyone.
That said, it doesn't make the music soulless or amateurish anymore than it doesn't make it a masterwork. Nobody's sucking Tee Lopes' dick more than you're trying to completely discredit the man.

I loved this as a kid and I really wanna try the Director's cut. Is it worth getting?
Also both soundtracks are incredible, but the Saturn version has one of my all time favorite Sonic tunes, coincidentally Rusty Ruin 2 in that version.

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what're folks thoughts on the FP composer's attempts at messing around with composing an alt S3 soundtrack, because trying to figure out loops for this shit in audacity for some S3AIR modding is a real pain in the ass but i've been using it myself
leilawilson.bandcamp.com/album/s3alternate

I honestly didn't care much for the qol changes.

>more fair and enjoyable than blue sphere
What? More enjoyable I agree 100%. More fair, I beg to differ. Blue Spheres is piss easy, Mania special stages aren't hard but if I get too comfortable I still find myself fucking up on them, and Mania Plus special stages can kick your ass sometimes too.

Sonic 2 Special Stages are retarded and as a result the only time i've beaten the game with 7 chaos emeralds without using save states, is on the mobile version, where you can pause and hit "retry" on special stages at the cost of one life.

So far, I dig the compositions, but the pace is a bit too slow.
Makes me wanna try my hand at doing the same for FP, even though I'm a nobody who's only done a few Sonic Re-arrangements that have never been released publicly.

it was sonic eraser

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Sonic 3 alternate is my fucking jam, bro. Especially Hydrocity, Ice Cap and Launch Base. The hints of death egg in Launch base are such a nice touch.
The team keeps hoping it can be out by the end of the year at least. I'm also pretty excited for SAGE this month, we'll see games like pic related and hopefully even Utopia
>tfw is actually friends with one of the sprite artists on the team

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Sonic 1's special stages aren't bad, but the third special stage in Sonic 1 can go fuck itself.
It's always a 50/50 chance whether or not I beat that special stage no matter how many times i've played Sonic 1. Once you get past that special stage the rest of them are easy pickings, but that special stage often ends any of my six emerald runs of the game.

>Spoiler
God damn, that's cool. I'm kind of floundering on improving music production, especially for shit like Sonic arrangements. I'd be a liar if I said part of why I want to isn't to meet some of these creators and learn from them.

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>go camping with friends
>one of them has invited another person I don't know
>ask them what their favorite 2D Sonic game is.
>they say Sonic Mania
>show them a wealth of info showcasing the flaws of Sonic Mania including its recycled levels, and how it's basically a glorified Sonic rom hack
>they say it's fun to them and that's all that matters
>that night, a bear comes to the tent. All of us manage to get away, but the Mania coper
>the bear savagely attacks him
>as he begs for help, I pull out my shotgun.
>say I'll help if he admits Sonic Mania is a flawed rushed mess of a game
>he says that he can't. Encore Mode was his favorite thing in a sonic game ever.
>says Sonic Mania Plus DLC saved Sonic Mania
>understand he is too far gone
>know that he is better off dead
>friends and I watch as the bear eats him alive.

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That's a pretty fucked up pasta, user.

BASED

>person I don't know
>ask them what their favorite 2D Sonic game is

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You may have some potential brewing there user, I hope it can all work out for ya.

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SOULFUL

You're damn right.

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LESS

nope.

>no playable Amy
>no playable Metal Sonic
>literal whos playable instead
>only 4 new zones
>the rest of the zones are rehashed from other 2d sonic games
>has less content than many sonic rom hacks
>sonic mania plus dlc is just 2 playable characters and recolored zones
>no integration of the Sonic Mania Adventures into the game
>no proper zone transition for Hydrocity Zone to Mirage Saloon
>the game was actually beta at launch
>the devs couldn't add too much new content or that would've been TROO FAR
>pc release took 2 weeks long because of denuvo
>the game is easier than it's predecessors

20+ years of hype for a glorified rom hack. Sonic Mania was a disaster

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ok

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>>no playable Amy
just play the amy mod bro :^)

okay, /sthg/

This. On a technical level Mania is superior (with the exception of LOCK-ON TECHNOLOGY of course), but the whole experience of S3K is better constructed. If they allow Mania 2 to be whatever the devs want that one has a chance to surpass them all

This but unironically

the funny thing is, this phrase has become ironic in itself.

Not really

I swear to god if Fang doesn’t finally get his time to shine in Mania 2...

but it has, I see it used towards obvious shitposts all the time.

>mod
doesnt count

>mod

I don't

well I'll definitely say this, it was not a "disaster" for crying out loud.

Nobody says this.

It was

the only playable characters a 2d sonic game should have are sonic and knuckles, everyone else is just a better/worse version of those two or a gimmick that doesn't fit the gameplay properly

How is that a disaster

Sonic 2 is better to me.
2=Mania=S3K>CD>SK>3

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How is it not?

I don't know, you tell me.
Just because you did not like a game for some reasons does not make it fucking gospel.

Yes it does.

twitter.com/GreatLange/status/1168345911002460160
is it happening?

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>this is your brain on shitposter

This but ironically

We can hope, user.

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Glad they kept this even later on

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I want them back, lads.

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TROO FAR

You can't hold Mania Team back forever, Iizuka.

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I love freedom planet. Who was your favourite character?

>I'm a strong fiery not-Sonic dragon girl who is burdened by her duties LOL SUSHI
>I'm a tough girl and definitely not a lesbian. I'll pee in this jailcell to get us free cause I'm a Ninja XD
>I'm a quirky weird dog monster who talks to stumps cause she's random lol
>I'm the guy who actually does stuff but obviously gets ignored
>And I'm "Not Eggman"

I know your question is ironic, but Carol has Chun-Li lightning kicks, so her.

what's the difference between Complete and AIR?

Complete has a million options to change the experience.

AIR is the like the same game but with widescreen support.

Complete is a romhack so it could theoretically run on real hardware, and basically has S3, &K, and Blue Spheres in one package as selectable games ore S3&K as an all in one, with various options, bonuses, and things like Genesis renditions of the S&K Collection on PC's different songs. It's the definitive way to play S3&K. Angel Island Revisited is a fan-made source port to implement smooth rotations and widescreen among other things, and while it follows Complete's example it's not quite as jampacked with extra features and functions - though you can unlock the Drop Dash and Super Peel-Out through completing its achievements (or downloading a save naturally). It's also implementing sprite, music and stage modding.

So Complete if you like Emulation, AIR if you want a more straightforward and widescreen experience that still has customization options.

also AIR doesn't have competitive multiplayer or independent blue spheres yet, but who plays S3&K multiplayer compared to Sonic 2 man

>Drop Dash
This is about enough for me to push it as superior. Really the only big thing I really like about Complete is the Sonic 3 music patch, and I'm not sure if AIR has that or not

Great answers, thanks.
Seems like AIR should adapt Complete's style just because widescreen support sounds great.

I think Complete is the greater achievement because it can run on OG hardware

I can't quite remember what all Complete has that AIR doesn't besides built-in remixes and music mixing, because it's still fairly comprehensive in its own right, and there's sprite mods to bring the character sprites up to Complete's level already. And even then AIR still lets you choose a variety of tracks, and even use the S1 and S2 boss themes for Mecha Sonic's shit in Sky Sanctuary.

Sonic 3 fucking sucks and it makes sonic and knuckles worse by association.
S&K is great by itself, but having to trudge through Sonic 3 for the "true experience" is garbage.

I'm of the opposite opinion. I'm used to S3 enough that the only zone that drags on is Carnival Night, but while I can tolerate Mushroom Hill and Flying Battery i'm not really a fan of the rest of S3&K.

Need more speed shoes

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TOOO FAR

They're about on par for me

Same, yeah

COME ON!

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Cybershell...

I miss him

He's with Tikal, Gamma and Chip now...

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If they decide to bring back Hyper Sonic, how should they alter the design to avoid the seizure issue?

slightly slower flashing, also more smooth transitioning between colors.

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The backgrounds in Sonic games are so pretty, but you never really can focus on them

Ya can if you feel like stopping at least.

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Not the Sonic way.

Played Mania multiple times and never noticed that windmill.

I like the 3D games a little better graphically because the put more distance and perspective tricks into the backgrounds.

This was a pretty good thread, but let's not try to make a pointless rivalry next time, ok?
All these games are friends here.

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Make it Blue.
Or have Sonic yellow with sparkles, Tails with his killer flicky army, Pink Knuckles with floating cowboy hats

Sonic Labyrinth is the greatest game ever

Don't @ me retards

gimme the chaotix and amy in mania 2
that and more new levels and less reused ones. that's all i ask
but some more lore on the super emeralds wouldn't hurt either

pretty much this.

What is the Super Emeralds become canon only in the "classic" universe and stop existing in the "modern" universe. What would be a good way to justify this?

well i think there wouldnt be much need to justify it
angel island isn't visited that often if at all in the modern universe, and the only emerald shrine that's known to transform the emeralds into their super versions is on angel island
tldr, the super emeralds are already exclusively canon in the classic universe so nothing would really change

i always thought knuckles in Mania would be massively improved by letting him drill/divebomb back to the ground from his gliding state. bounces on impact and then lands in a running state if the player is still pushing left or right.

Sonic CD is like the Mario 2 of sonic games.

Knuckles is the worst portion though. Most zones are too long. Sandopolis is a particular offender, and aside from the music/setting I'm not a fan of Lava Reef either. Mushroom Hill also suffers from weird Mario-esque gimmicks that slow gameplay down, like the pulley-lifts.

Hot take alert. Mario Bros 2 is like a different game. CD is like the same game but with more content and better music.

I'd say something like 3D Blast is like Mario Bros 2

If anything I would give a divebomb move to Tails.

-onic game

There is a certain purity of the first 3 levels of Sonic 3 that is unmatched by any other 2D platformer. I could just hang out and explore angel island or marble gardens forever.

Sadly everything after is bad and & Knuckles is bad and Mania is rehashed and also pretty bad.

What I mean is: Sonic CD, like Mario 2, is notable for how weird it is and introducing a lot elements that would become series staples like metal sonic, amy; or shy guys and bob-ombs. Can be appreciated for being different, but the gameplay is gimmicky and not very fun in comparison to traditional games in their series. They both have really catchy music, and they came in between the first game and it's actual sequel making it feel more like a side thing, but still being super influential to the series.