FUCK random crits

whenever i momentarily forget Yea Forums isn't full of literal utter total retards, i just remember the consensus is to keep literal RNG crits in instead of removing them

I wish overwatch had random crits.

>unskilled plebs don't want it
>random
>skill
???????????

Oh no I'm fine killing someone for random crits, I still believe it shouldn't be in the game, if a random guy gave me all of his money I would think he's a retarded faggot for doing it, but I would still take it, your no u argument fails here

Statistically impossible for a luck based mechanic.

suck out all the soul and fun. Make it like any shooter. Nerf to appease the blooming competitive community. Add a grey/brown filter while you're at it

The frequency is determined by how many kills you get, it is calculable, plebs just dont understand or nor can they play. People who die to crits are objectivley plebs

>HOW MANY FUCKING CRIT ROCKETS DOES THIS GUY HAVE

case in point
RNG isn't soul, retard. go play some gachashit

>The frequency is determined by how many kills you get
It's determined by how much damage you do within a certain amount of time (typically 20s but weapons like the syringe gun check every second).

God speaks to us with random numbers. When you get a crit that means God loves you and wants you to win. When you get hit with a crit that means god hates you and wants you to lose. People who hate random crits usually are niggers that hate God and that are hated by God.

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Statistically impossible for you to be such a ginormous faggot, yet here you are.

Only ADHD addled zoomzooms like random crits. If you need epic rngs to make a game with already perfect gameplay "not boring", you should stick with Overwatch.

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don't get hit and you won't get crit

Not even Overwatch relies on RNG crits. You need to go more casual.

Just make them actually random.
>Let's ban them because retard e-cleb who's shit at video games who wants to make scout even more OP said so
Nah fuck off fag. Just make them actually random.

not everything revolves around your favorite e-celebs user

How are random crits even real? Like nigga just don't get hit lmao

Not everything revolves around you niggers and your autistic hatred for this one stupid mechanic.
How about instead of bitching about this retarded thing you bitch about things that are an actual problem like how matchmaking is shit and competitive is dead?

But user, Overwatch doesn't have any rng.

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>you're only allowed to hate 1 thing at a time

The only Rcrits that really get people upset are splash crits. I want to keep crits but it does feel shitty to die from the edge of rocket splash or get just a little too close to a crit sticky.
All that really needs to happen is reduce the rate it happens for only these main offenders so you can still get fat crit pipes or rockets but not die to them every life.
Making it only crit on a direct rocket hit or pipe might work too, less fun.

>you're only allowed to complain about things in order of importance
why dont you go solve world hunger faggot

Is that why every time I see a TF2 thread its bitching about crits and not the fact that matchmakeing is still shit?
Nah fuck off nerd you ain't tricking anybody.

what the fuck kind of discussion do you expect to come out of a matchmaking discussion other than "matchmaking bad"?
At least with "random crits bad" discussion you get to see retards out themselves for being shitters when trying to defend random crits in the first place

i cant stop playing sniper its just so easy to farm idiots

>Anti-crit fags flat out admitting crits aren't a real issue
Lmao can't make this shit up.
>Wahhh I died because I walked into a bright glowing projectile when I had 10 health TFteam needs to ban crits!1!
Embarrassing.

How about we only made melee weapon to get random crits?

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I never hear the argument to reduce the damage crits deal. Triple damage and no distance falloff can be pretty brutal on a sticky/rocket.

>crit shotgun from downtown: 18 damage
>crit rocket from downtown: 270 damage + splash collateral
it's almost as if crits are stupid and disproportionately favor the classes that are already the best at shitting out damage

Weapons that can reward critical hits for certain combinations are extremely boring unless said combination is very hard to pull off, like stun+cleaver

based Terry

>stun combo is hard
kek

Why do people like dying to random crockets around corners that you can't see coming?
Why do people even try to use phlog when a stock pyro just crits you and airblasts anyway?
Why do people enjoy losing close 1v1's to crits?
people on Yea Forums always defend crits, but only with "I like them". If you like crits so much, give me one reason to keep them.

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fuck zoomers who can't handle a bit of randomness in their gameplay

F

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Why does the randomness have to interfere with skill gameplay. tf2 is not a card game, its about landing your shots.
That doesn't matter if one person only had to land one shot

Nothing of value would be lost if you removed the Spy and Sniper class. In fact, the game would instantly become a million times better if they were eliminated entirely.

They're fun.

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Because I like doing those things to people too. Crits giveth, crits taketh. A perfectly autobalanced system.

>heavies, demos, and soldiers can now stand in the open like retards without punishment because there's no threat
>engineers only have to worry about demomen and ubers now and get stupidly complacent
>medics only need to worry about getting bombed/ambushed instead of getting good at moving and watching their back
>homewrecker and neon annihilator are useless and no longer equipped
wow you just lowered the skill requirements of the game, go play overwatch

everything about that game is designed to lure in zoomies and take advantage of their love of rng by making the entire end goal of the game buying rng boxes

>give me one reason to keep them.
Because you fags are pessimistic retards who insist on bitching about the one time a match where you run around a corner try to fight a soldier lose then when you're running away with 5 hp he one shots you with the crit.
How about instead of bitching you stop being a bunch of negative faggots and play the fucking game?

Exactly.
>but muh melee
Buff all melee damage by 25% or so to compensate.

>but muh weapons with only no random crits as a downside
Gee I don't know maybe think of a new actually impactful fucking downside.

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>making a claim based on how autistic you are instead of the scope of all tools provided in a game
subjectivity nigger

>Still playing tf2 in 2019

Fucking yikes

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>3dpd
>reddit spacing
cringe post broseph

thats a strawman fallacy. Not an argument. You can't just say I do stuff that I don't do. Try attacking the argument instead of a hypothetical character that you made up.
For your information, a crit rocket (aka crocket) can one shot classes that are not heavy. Not sure if you played the game long enough to learn that, so I thought I'd tell you.

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I disagree somewhat,its incredibly fun to get crits from successfully performing combos, but the amount of fun heavily varies due to the imbalanced nature of crits.
I could use the manmelter and receive guaranteed crits for helping my team. Or I could just use the flare gun and get crits for being obnoxious. Or i could not use either and kill everything anyways because i was blessed with 2 seconds of pure anal rage.

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Understand that multiplayer games don't revolve around you, and let others have fun once and a while.

all I asked for is one solid reason. If you can't do it, Its cool, i get it.

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Your post has unironically changed my mind

>"perfectly balanced"
>favors soldiers and demos because their damage is a pointmass with splash instead of being subjected to damage potential dropping with distance like shotguns do with spread
>directly disfavors snipers, spies, and any flanking classes that aren't racking up damage as often as they inhale
>far more punishing to the slowest class in the game that cannot effectively dodge them nor use them when they do happen for him
>an entire class of entity is immune to it but still actively accrues damage for the user
>the most important class in the game is a support class that doesn't actively do damage and their survival depends entirely on the other team not rolling a crit at him while he desperately dances to stay alive
TF2 is chaotic enough of a clusterfuck without crits. If they were disabled, no one would notice for a few days because there's just that much entropy to keep things entertaining.
Instant kills don't make TF2 entertaining, TF2 makes TF2 entertaining.

Fun isn't exclusive to crits, and if that was the case for someone there's ways to get crits for their fun without rng anyway.

SUBJECTIVELY SUPERIOR OPINION:
Random crits should be based on damage taken, so they actually turn into a comeback mechanic.
The ramp up should be quicker, but the timeframe for the bonus should be drastically smaller. Think counter punching, and if you time getting hit by a weapon the moment you get hit you have a large chance to return a crit.
Pair this with weapon swings and you won't see retarded shit like medics critting you, but they'll wreck your ass if you hit them and don't kill them.

Unironically this

>I personally don't like your reason. Therefore I shall ignore it.

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guaranteed results aren't fun

>Why do people like dying to random crockets around corners that you can't see coming?
1 in 1 million chance of actualy happening. its a 1% chance to actually get crit by something that just got out of spawn, you're only getting crit by the guy thats wrecking shit.
>Why do people even try to use phlog when a stock pyro just crits you and airblasts anyway?
building MMph is fun, knowing how much afterburn damage you do is cool.
>Why do people enjoy losing close 1v1's to crits?
if you died to a crit in a close 1v1 you were low health and a normal hit would have killed you.
>people on Yea Forums always defend crits, but only with "I like them". If you like crits so much, give me one reason to keep them.
they filter normies and compfags.

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fucking tard doesnt even know how the mechanic he defends works

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Notice how there was never any major stink about random crits until some e-celeb made a video on why he hates getting knocked out of the game for 5 seconds due to luck
#Removerandomcrits fags are braindead shitheads that cant think for themselves. Ask almost any longtime tf2 player and they'll say they have no problem with random crits.

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I have over 5000 hours in the game if you run in front of a crit rocket you deserve to get one shot by it.

People have hated them silently for years but now that there's something that could possibly done about it they're more outspoken.

Weapons that fire constantly check every 20 seconds. Shotgun checks every shot iirc.

this is why soldier gets a bucket full of crits.
if he hits the damage threshold, he has the same chance to get one crit rocket as a medic has to get a crit with his saw. Then that compounds and he will keep getting the chance until he dies.

>guaranteed results aren't fun
Maybe in an RPG or some other game with dicerolls but don't pull that shit in other genres. Would you faggot be alright with crit failures where your weapons didn't do any damage?

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>People have hated them silently for years
Is this what compfags tell themselves?

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personally like it isn't an objective reason. I also asked for a reason that was NOT that one.

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git gud

Well if you want a solid reason you should refer to the strawman fallacy you originally stated, by assuming that I enjoy certain things just because I defend crits. I roll my eyes and move on when I receive a crit, and have a laugh when someone is so upset by them that they have to express it in the chat. Crits are a socializing and mental mechanic that tests your mental stability, the lesser-willed lose their composure and thus take a massive dip in their performance (usually while smashing the bind they wasted time making about crits being fair and balanced) out of some preconceived notion that "he didn't deserve that kill!", when in the end they're dead either way. To accept crits is to become a man, numb to the poor happenstances that occur both in and out of the game, while also viewing the world from a purely factual standpoint. It doesn't matter if one is killed by a bodyshot, or critted, or dominated, the only thing that matter is that you are dead and the objective should be played when you return.

>Maybe in an RPG or some other game with dicerolls but don't pull that shit in other genres

why? Almost all multiplayer games have random mechanics. Why do you think a casual shooter game shouldn't have casual random chance?

>Would you faggot be alright with crit failures where your weapons didn't do any damage?

Your opponents wouldn't benefit from this as much. this would just be a net negative like a spy cloak suddenly breaking randomly.
Or tripping

>I ERP on trade servers so i know about gameplay mechanics
give your argument a better leg to stand on than just "Muh hours"

If TF2 launched without crits, would you morons be clamoring for them to be added?
Literally the only defense of them has been argument ad antiquarum. "They've been in the game since launch, the developers intended it, clearly this is correct." And yet the developers have doubled-back on past decisions because they realized that they've made mistakes and continue to make mistakes unless you count the past few years where they made nothing. Seriously, go back to the first line of this post and ask yourself if you genuinely would want random damage to be added to what is a pretty-solid Quake-inspired Team/Class shooter with an objective-centered focus rather than a DM focus. If the answer is yes at that point, you don't actually like TF2 for its core gameplay mechanics, but instead you like TF2 for being a pub-like experience that you don't try at all in and just play the game as an excuse to be with friends like going to the bar after work. This ideal is fine, but you don't need random crits to enjoy your time with your friends on TF2, you and your friends just need to not be little bitches and remember that you don't need a needy tagalong to still enjoy that pub-like experience.

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There's actually been a vocal minority whining about them for over a decade the fact that nothing's been done about them over that large amount of time should tell you something.
There's no point in complaining about them because we both know that nothing's going to be done about them and everyone in this thread should stop being a whiny retard and just play the game.

Not an argument, frognigger.

>Why do people like dying to random crockets around corners that you can't see coming?
>that you can't see coming?

Your post:
>if you run in front of a crit rocket
nice reading comprehension

if you remove random crits you have to also remove falloff damage

>Would you faggot be alright with crit failures where your weapons didn't do any damage?

if the results were funny yeah.
Like a 1% chance for pyro to randomly airblast himself into the ceiling and hit his head for 50 damage.

Why? Falloff damage is reasonable and makes it so heavies don't murder everything ever.

based incel

What about Random bullet spread

>Literally the only defense of them has been argument ad antiquarum. "They've been in the game since launch, the developers intended it, clearly this is correct."

Why do newfags always argue this. Not only have they been in from the start, they have been rebalanced and cemented by valve as a good mechanic.

We actually had a random mechanic that was much worse than random crits, and that got removed a while ago. We don't need to remove random crits because its a good random mechanic.

well gee then heavy might be dangerous for once

if you complain about crits it means you are playing competitively ergo fuck off to OW

>hurr heavy should randomly deal more damage if he appears infront of you and less if you randomly pop up far away

pro-crit niggers everyone

for most of the game's lifespan, people used community servers and a lot of them had crits disabled or put to a vote.
it's only after valve effectively killed community servers by robbing them of all inbound traffic that they became a moneysink and were shut down. Now people are forced into dying community servers or into cookie-cutter valve servers where crits are always active.
This is why the stink is being vocal recently: because community servers are being crucified.

>lot of them had crits disabled or put to a vote.
Nice revisionist history.
No-crit servers existed but weren't "lots".
The only server that everyone played on was the No random damage servers. People would only put up with no-crit servers because they also disabled damage spread.

its not as bad as crits, but i still don't enjoy occasionally "missing" meatshots.
crits occasionally triple your damage, but bullet spread will lower or raise your damage, so it ruins interactions with more subtly than crits.
i wanna be rewarded for good aim and not do 70 damage when I actually miss.

I wasn't defending crits you moron I was defending falloff damage. AKA making it so heavy doesn't have 300 dps at any fucking range and soldier's rockets don't do 120 to someone 1000 feet away.

>but i still don't enjoy occasionally "missing" meatshots.

you weren't in range for a meatshot if you missed.

>they were nerfed at one point in 2008
>this somehow means that they are perfect
all they did was make it so you got FEWER crits, if anything that's a sign that they are a problem but can't be assed to do anything about it

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Fuck random crits? I think they're called STDs

remove that shit i love the fact that quake had 1 single sniper pellet dying because bullet spray decided to get the guy a full body close shave pissed me off to near uninstall twice in my time playing i wouldve eventually reinstalled but fuck did it piss me off

No crit servers have always been a minority most people don't give a fuck about the stupid mechanic.

haha no look at the chart but don't just look at the top part. notice how the starting value went from 5% to 1%. this DRAMATICALLY changed the bullshit of random crits, so you don't get critted by some shitter leaving spawn 1/20 times.

>Your opponents wouldn't benefit from this as much
>disguise is broken after backstabbing a engineer in a nest
>sapper on a sentry crit fails and doesn't work
>get blown the fuck away by said sentry

>medic is running around in the back with a full uber
>shoot him in the head as sniper
>Crit failure; your bullet malfunctioned
>medic combo ubers in and kills everyone

>1v1 scouts
>get a meatshot off
>nope you crit failed :^)
>no damage even though your aim was fine
Nobody would want this outside of a maymay server.

>AKA making it so heavy doesn't have 300 dps at any fucking range and soldier's rockets don't do 120 to someone 1000 feet away.
Why is this a problem?

>AKA making it so heavy doesn't have 300 dps
150 damage at long range, probably less due to spread.

heavy still has massive bullet spread

why shouldn't a rocket deal full damage if you're stupid enough to stand in the same spot at max range

>Ask for reason
>Anons give reason
>I-I ASKED FOR AN OBJECTIVE REASON.
There no objective reason either way. And no "muh competitive" is not a good reason.

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>Nobody would want this outside of a maymay server.
That's why I said that random negatives are bad?

For the same reasons sniper is fucking unbalanced as shit you fucking idiot. This is a mid to short ranged game, any and all long range combat should be unreliable garbage.

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>at any fucking range and soldier's rockets don't do 120 to someone 1000 feet away.

you mean like demo pipes or sniper headshots?

Hitting someone with a rocket from far away would be pretty unreliable.... unless this is arguing to remove falloff for explosions too.

>he thinks people have wallhacks and can see pablo.rodriguez.2003 blindly firing at a corner in hopes of hitting someone from the opposite side of the map
>he also thinks that if you are even remotely close to this corner you should take full damage
damage falloff is necessary, you twat. either get close to actually skirmish with people or do wet-napkin damage

When I play tf2, I enjoy the core mechanics and feeling rewarded for skilled gameplay. if you mainly enjoy crits because "wow that person is mad, uh oh, it was my turn to get crit that time. Oh well.", then I just pity you.
The difference between the way you think and the way I think, is that when we return to play the objective, I'm not depending on cheap laughs to pass the time. It is immensely satisfying to genuinely outplay someone than to randomly instakill someone. honestly I don't even enjoy dishing out crits as much anymore, I've had my fill. I want to win fair fights.

The only satisfying thing crits do for me is when I reflect a crit rocket as pyro. But all reflected projectiles minicrit anyway, Why couldn't I have killed them as Im chasing them down, or landed that shotgun hit on their backs. That's just way more rewarding. If I really want to attempt to make someone feel worse after a clean kill, thats what taunting is for, I don't rely on crits to do it for me because I'm good enough to earn it for myself.

If you can land a pipe that far away you deserve full damage at that point. Headshots, no, that shouldn't be a thing.
I guess rockets aren't that reliable, maybe they're a bit more nuanced to balance in that regard and I'm just not that good at thinking of something for it.

how many seconds until the crit chance resets to 0 damage dealt? or is it just damage per life?

How are critical failures not a positive for the receiving end? It's a crit, but backwards. Why is it that shitting out extra damage for no reason other than luck is OK but a unlucky crit where someone wouldn't do damage at all is bad?

20 seconds, but its not entirely clear how its calculated. apparently it updates every 20 seconds which means you could be doing a fuck load of damage and get no crits, then suddenly 20 seconds later deal no damage and get a butt load of crits.

otherwise it checks each damage and adds them in total every 20 seconds, but the amount of shit that would stack in the code would get a little crazy.

20 seconds with no damage done resets it.

I enjoy both, actually. Random crits don't happen often enough to break the flow of gameplay so there's a pretty alright balance of game mechanics and silly shit.
I find it unfortunate, or "pitiful" that people don't enjoy the game in its entirety.

it keeps a rolling timeline of all damage that you've done but only for the last 20 seconds and it caps out at 800 damage
so if you're a flanking class and are keeping a low profile, if you've not dealt damage in the past 20 seconds you're going to eat a fat shit rocket when you approach that soldier that doesn't know you're there until after you pull the trigger

>people on Yea Forums always defend crits, but only with "I like them".
i already named the shitty reason they gave me. Thats not good enough.
objective reason or not, its pretty sad if thats the only argument that they have and they didn't even have to say anything for me to know it. Why did they input anything at all?

>How are critical failures not a positive for the receiving end?
>how is recieving a negative not a positive

because it just isn't?
its like watching someone stab themselves in the eye with a fork on accident, versus throwing a spoon and landing it into someones spoon across the room splashing it all over their face.

One is a horrible accident you feel bad about, the other is a moment of excitement.

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... what that's not how it works user. You don't take more crits if you deal less damage.

The real reason people want random crits to stay its because they get joy out of seeing those who are critted rage.
Lets say crits were disabled and random crits server popped up, even if 90% of the population went to these servers that 10% of people raging in chat wouldnt be there and so random crits would lose all their fun.

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this is the thought process of a compfag.
They can't reason anyone having fun unless they are a radically superior player.
They're also likely the first person to whine when an aimbotting esque sniper is on the enemy team, or the same person that COULD play some high skill game but chooses to stick with tf2.

if you approach someone who has been doing damage, you will -- by design -- have a lower crit chance than them. The guy who doesn't know that you're even there, you should have all the advantage in the world, you even get a head start by being able to take the first shot uninterrupted.
And then he turns around and takes a sparkly dump on your face with a shot that's only vaguely in your direction but instakills you anyway.

Pretty easy to say "let others have fun" when you enjoy a feature while ignoring that the complaining players are just as part of the community as you are.

>why can't I win too, daddy?
grow some chest hair, you slimy little frenchman.

Why not make the entire game be an rps tournament then

This will continue to be a good point up until Valve fixes the roll or be rolled matchmakeing.
It's not fair that I'm put on a team of paste eaters while another guy is put on team of grandmasters.

by design you will have the advantage.
If you are flanking he is on the backline and will have dealt little to no damage.
If he did do damage recently and is on the backline, he is more than likely low on health.
By design you will have these outcomes.

A. You will take half his health in one shot, and then kill him with the next shot while he retalliates
B. You kill him in one shot because he is low health
C. You take half of his health and miracously he gets the 1/100 revenge
D. He rocket jumps before you hit him and he hits you
E. He rocket jumps before you hit him and miracously he gets the 1/100 crit RJ and says "wait what" in chat

When the fuck is the heavy update? all they have to do is buff some of his weps and the melee subclass.
it shouldnt take 2 years

>variations of "I don't like them" are better than variations of "I like them"
Are you actually retarded?

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Because RPS shooters are objectively garbage. The game is more balanced around ambushing and getting the first shot in. Which means crits 99% of the time will be the final hit, or the thing that kills someone immediately or kills the guy ambushing.

Wait but no I can regurgitate points from an eceleb!!

They're trying to balance him for comp and then give some scraps to casual.

Likely a 4th revamp to GRU, instead of just making heavy run faster without his minigun in general.

>dane copies other people's arguments verbatim that had been made before he even installed the game
>he now has ownership of these arguments fuck you

Why don't you play an Esport or stick to comp?

you still haven't responded to my post

My reasons weren't "i dont like them", read it again.

Random crits are great because babies cry after i decimate them with a crocket

>He doesn't taunt after every random crit to test fate
>he doesn't laugh at the domino effect when the guy that kills you taunts, and gets killed immediately

I do. But I also feel bad for the new installs that I crit because they're already dying hard enough, it doesn't help if the server empties out because they literally can't get out of spawn.
When shit turns into a steamroll, in a pub at least, I switch to something less stompy to give them some breathing room.
I play TF2 because it's fun. Regardless of whether I'm playing pick-up games with a few friends in vent or I'm just pubbing with random nobodies, I still have fun. Crits have no bearing on it other than being an occasional wet fart. I'd prefer the game without the fart but I stick to it because I still enjoy the rest of it.

I don't think you understand:
Lets say I was 20 hp and a few feet away from a healthpack. A soldier shoots a rocket at me and I get caught in the splash damage, but since it was a crit failure it malfunctions and does 10 damage. Now I'm able to grab the health pack and either run away or engage the enemy. It wasn't fair, but I benefited from it. It's a positive, but it feels like bullshit for the soldier who should have killed me. Obviously living though that is "a moment of excitement".
How are crits successes fine but crit failures are bad? They're literally just the inverse of crits. They're obviously both bullshit, but for some reason crit successes are fine because they're exciting? Someone is going to be excited by the outcome in either situation.

youtube.com/watch?v=V2gebmufug0

for

Or just remember that the majority of Yea Forums unironically think Dustbowl and Upward are good maps.

>I'm just so good
So stick to weaker weapons and loadouts
>I hate crits because they just make me look too good
Its just a game, if you feel bad about winning so hard maybe you shouldn't play so well

You didn't list a reason. You gave situations that you don't like.
I am assuming you are this user. I can't tell because it is an anonymous imageboard you newfag.

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>Obviously living though that is "a moment of excitement".

not really. most players won't recognize it and would actually feel bad for the enemy player. They don't get anything from it, they weren't fighting the enemy.
Crits typically reward players that are outnumbered or being ambushed. They push up for underdogs.

bros, how do I make this hightower contract easier? half the time the games don't even end

>So stick to weaker weapons and loadouts
did you even read the post?
I can only gimp myself with suboptimal loadouts so much before I might as well be playing fucking degroot keep
>maybe you shouldn't play so well
no

imagine rolling a dice and getting extra money vs rolling a dice and losing money.

Which do you think gives you more positive feelings?
which do you think gives your opponent more positive feelings.

if we had to measure it, you could assume the more money would be a positive of like 4 and a negative of 1 for the enemy player.
The money lost would be a negative of maybe 2-3 for the player, and a positive of maybe 1-2 for the enemy.

well he isn't me, but since you asked so nicely, sure
For something so rare, they affect the game more than they should. I don't consider dealing splash damage and not getting kills as "wrecking shit".
Theres been too many times people get crits right out of the spawn gate anyway. When the gates open I should be afraid of ubers and an entire team, not a single rocket.
I think the phlog is fun and interesting, but Its discouraging when a pyro crits me before i can earn my crits.
as for the 1v1 thing, not every close 1v1 is when someone has like 20 health. A good example of crits ruining 1v1's is like when heavies fight. They are both doing point blank damage (gaining crit chance) and typically the one who revs up first should win, but the person who revs second might still win depending on the weapon match up or having overheal. That doesn't matter if one of the heavies gets crits in the middle of it.
Weapons do alot of damage in tf2. In a game about getting 2 or 3 shot, you should not be getting one shot. I every frame that you are allowed to fight back matters, even if you trade deaths 1 for 1. if you have like 70 health, you can still take splash damage from a rocket and live, but not if he crits.

Play comp then.
If you are so absurdly good that you can't gimp yourself with nothing but melee weapons or troldier, you should go pro.

thank you terry

>10+ fucking years
>babbies are S T I L L crying about random crits

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again, do you even read the posts you're responding to?
I do play comp, but that doesn't mean I can't fuck around in pubs with suboptimal shit.
if a team is getting curbstomped by a fucking eviction notice heavy with the steak I don't know what else to say except maybe stop giving me so many crits

>Theres been too many times people get crits right out of the spawn gate anyway. When the gates open I should be afraid of ubers and an entire team, not a single rocket.

thats a 4% chance in most scenarios. If you're infront of spawn gates and getting shot by enough people that you're guaranteed a random crit, you were guaranteed to die anyways. And you were in a poor position.
This also means people leaving spawn are countering spawn campers.
but this is all hypothetical and statistically improbable.

>as for the 1v1 thing, not every close 1v1 is when someone has like 20 health. A good example of crits ruining 1v1's is like when heavies fight. They are both doing point blank damage (gaining crit chance) and typically the one who revs up first should win, but the person who revs second might still win depending on the weapon match up or having overheal. That doesn't matter if one of the heavies gets crits in the middle of it.

Yes I've had this happen to and against me, Its exciting when you blow the enemy heavy away instead of it being guaranteed immediately by the rev-time. I remember a fair amount of tense situations where I just barely kill the enemy heavy that revved first because of crits.

>if you have like 70 health, you can still take splash damage from a rocket and live, but not if he crits.
If this was the "true skilled" matchup he wouldn't be relying on splash my dude.
And again you are hoping the game is hyper predictable number crunching. You're basically counting cards in poker.

>but that doesn't mean I can't fuck around in pubs with suboptimal shit.

Why do you do this. if you are telling me right now, that this isn't fun for you.

Seriously why are you removing pub mechanics.
for a game mod that you are telling me RIGHT NOW you dislike?

>if a team is getting curbstomped by a fucking eviction notice heavy with the steak

Are you playing against bots, or do you just have a medic buttplug. because I really doubt you're curbstomping the enemy team with 150 hp.

post gameplay.

Fuck off, Uncle Dane. You're shit at Engie too.

alright then. Crits are objectively unbalanced. The only classes designed to one shot are sniper and spy, and they come packed with distinct strenghts and weaknesses that other classes do not share such as mobility. Characters with higher health and mobility shouldn't be one shotting you.
Most engagements are supposed to last several seconds because it typically takes multiple mouse clicks to kill someone, unless you use an automatic weapon, in which case it still takes several moments of dps to earn a kill.
The entire interaction is invalidated by instakilling someone immediately and it ruins the fun of getting into fights. Not every interaction in the game is strictly 1v1, but the opportunity to take one strong hit is still important in any enemy engagement because it gives both players vital breathing room and an opportunity to react.

Secondly, random critical hits invalidates weapons that are designed around earning crits. Melee crits especially invalidate spy as a class. I already listed the phlog as an example, but any no random crit weapon is also a good example like the flair guns and man melter or the ambassador. Why put in the skill and effort earning a crit and feeling rewarded, when you can just one shot someone for no reason? its illogical. You suddenly don't have to dedicate a slot in your loadout for a specific playstyle reward when stock can just meet that reward 10% of the time.

>Characters with higher health and mobility shouldn't be one shotting you.

Spy is the 2nd fastest character in the game and can get 210 hp pretty easilly.

Considering that sniper can headshot you across the map, he easilly has the mobility on you.

>Secondly, random critical hits invalidates weapons that are designed around earning crits.

Sniper is invalidated by heavies random crits?
ambassador and diamondback are invalidated by random crits?
are you serious?

Actually, sniper has no random crits on his primary weapons, removal pf random crits would be a net gain for sniper players sich as myself. I wholly support their removal because I'm smart.

not a fan of random crits, but how is defending random crits edgy?????

>Spy is the 2nd fastest character in the game and can get 210 hp pretty easilly.
still comes at the cost of starting with 60 health
>Considering that sniper can headshot you across the map, he easilly has the mobility on you.
positioning is not moblity
movespeed, double jumping, blast jumping (that means flares too), parachuting, and pyro's jetpack is moblity. A gunboats soldier can rollout across the map at one shot the first person he sees. based on the map, you can get the jump on sniper if you are aware of his positioning and the sniper can surprise you if hes aware of your positing, but the sniper isn't rapidly covering distance to accomplish that.

>Sniper is invalidated by heavies random crits?
no, and that example is vague anyway. If a heavy sneaks up an a sniper hes probably dead without crits, but yes, laser beams will sometimes kill sniper before he can charge his headshot to 300-450
>ambassador and diamondback are invalidated by random crits?
yes. Why bother aiming for a headshot when you can just shoot their chest and crit? Why have to get that first stab or sap a building when you can walk around critting without extra steps.

>Yes I've had this happen to and against me, Its exciting when you blow the enemy heavy away instead of it being guaranteed immediately by the rev-time. I remember a fair amount of tense situations where I just barely kill the enemy heavy that revved first because of crits.
so you are ok with those times where you were supposed to win but lost to crits? I can't count how many times a control point in a balanced match has been wiped clean because of stupid ass crits. I don't even enjoy getting crits anymore.
I wanna win fair fights and I wanna lose fair fights. The only thing I should have to blame is myself. I always prefer to think about what I could have done better than just hope for rng to win for me.

>still comes at the cost of starting with 60 health
just like crits come at the cost of not working 99% of the time.

>positioning is not moblity
Mobility leads to better positioning. The end goal of mobility is to lead to a position that minimizes damage and maximizes output.
If this is about getting to the point, the sniper will typically be in position before most classes because his position is further back, and he moves at the same speed as most classes.

>no, and that example is vague anyway. If a heavy sneaks up an a sniper hes probably dead without crits, but yes, laser beams will sometimes kill sniper before he can charge his headshot to 300-450

which is perfectly fair, the heavy has no other options, and the random crits actualy killing him is a shocking result that he gambled on while trying to mitigate his chance to headshot him. If anything this is perfectly balanced because he has to focus his minigun on the sniper.

>yes. Why bother aiming for a headshot when you can just shoot their chest and crit? Why have to get that first stab or sap a building when you can walk around critting without extra steps.

Guarantee and reliability out perform random crits.

>walk around critting
That's crithacks, not random crits Mr. Lmaobox.

>so you are ok with those times where you were supposed to win but lost to crits?

yes? Its just a game, if someone randomly crits in this rev up, it was a gamble either way. It really shouldn't come down to reaction time or better internet 100% of the time.

>I can't count how many times a control point in a balanced match has been wiped clean because of stupid ass crits.

Sounds funny and memorable lol. It also sounds like it increased the game time so you got to play longer.

While that is a good point for primarily 1v1 games, TF2 is not a 1v1 game. It is, at its core, a 12v12 game. Interactions are consist of any number of players. One player could get gangbanged by 3-4 individuals and take as much if not more damage than what they would have taken from a crit in a short time frame. Just from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Same for crits, wrong place at the wrong time.

Second, when has somebody ever said "I am not running Kritzkrieg because we can rely on random crits"?

no matter what class I play, my playstyle is to flank and get a few cheap kills. thats when 1v1's happen more, even in pubs.
I do it with the phlog, banana heavy, scout, and spy

So you're a lone wolf player that complains hes getting killed by bullshit?

that really speaks volumes

Arguments against random crits:
>Random crits encourage people to rely on RNG instead of their teammates or any skill they have. Relying on a random crit to win an encounter actually makes you WORSE at the game since you didn't learn anything from that encounter and relied on the game to win for you.
>Random crit frequency is based on damage done within a certain amount of time, giving an unneeded damage boost to the highest damage dealers and best classes in the game, Demoman and Soldier.
>It punishes the weaker/slower classes in the game, especially the Heavy who has no real way of dodging or defending himself against a crit.
Arguments for random crits:
>They're fun!
>They've always been in the game! Why change it?
>You're just saying that because you're a [insert thing you don't like] and because [insert person I don't like] said so!
>A random crit occurs based on how much damage you do so they actually DO take skill! B̶u̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶r̶a̶n̶d̶o̶m̶ ̶c̶r̶i̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶u̶l̶t̶i̶m̶a̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶R̶N̶G̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶h̶a̶p̶p̶e̶n̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶k̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶c̶h̶o̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶.̶

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>phlog
>complaining about crits

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Why did uncle dane pretend to "ironically" strawman his opponents position, and unironically strawman it?

also.

>Random crit frequency is based on damage done within a certain amount of time, giving an unneeded damage boost to the highest damage dealers and best classes in the game, Demoman and Soldier.

comparitively speaking their crit chances are pretty low. Heavy and pyro deal way more damage all around.
Try equipping a banner and see how fast it fills compared to say the gaspasser. In my experience pyro fills it way faster.
Engineers and medics also have a near instant crit chance due to the repair mechanics.
Spies deall like 1000 damage on backstabs so they're always max crit chance.
Snipers ignore crit chance.

Honestly the only class I can think of that is worse off is scout. But he genuinely benefits the most when a random crit happens so that's actually probably a good thing.

>It punishes the weaker/slower classes in the game, especially the Heavy who has no real way of dodging or defending himself against a crit.

Heavy is one of the few classes to be able to survive a random crit. If he attacks first, eats a crit, then keeps firing, he'll likely survive the encounter. Doubly hes the class that benefits the most from getting crits.

All defense of crits is purely emotional. True

mobility leads to positioning but they are still not the same thing. Instead of sniper, you could also consider heavy who relies on getting into a good spot, then staying rev'd up and ready. but then a scout runs entirely around the map to shoot him in the back
heavy lacks mobility but has migh dps, scout runs all over the place and has to 2 shot you, even 3 shot you if we are talking about heavies and soldiers.
>just like crits come at the cost of not working 99% of the time.
more like working 2-12% percent of the time, which is too much.
>Guarantee and reliability out perform random crits.
I agree, but my point is that its a closer race than it should be. its not a "rare high moment" when it happens, live valve wanted it to be.

You have to do enough damage without being able to airblast enemies way for an escape. When I run stock, its so easy to bully them around corners and airblast them into a crappy position.
if you wanna run scorch shot, you give up the faster dps of a shot gun. I encourage you to try using phlog to kill the top scoring enemy. its not as powerful as you think, it just kills noobs well. Airblast is the pyro's best tool and the phlog will remind you.

>heavy lacks mobility but has migh dps, scout runs all over the place and has to 2 shot you, even 3 shot you if we are talking about heavies and soldiers.

and when crits are involved, the heavy would likely be killing the scout already. inversely the heavy won't die due to a scout crits, and the scout has a pretty weak crit chance.

>more like working 2-12% percent of the time, which is too much.

Why besides of an arbirtrary feeling is this too much?

>I agree, but my point is that its a closer race than it should be. its not a "rare high moment" when it happens, live valve wanted it to be.

thats up to your experience. From what I've seen most of my random crits have been near the end of a sudden killstreak. Statistically its very unlikely you will open up with a random crit, and its more likely you'll end with one.

The only arguement I would agree with is that random crits could start at 0, just to obliterate the crits around corner from people that walked out of spawn. But the 2% chance seems low enough for that momentary shocking moment.

I see you take jokes about as well as you do crits, is it autism perchance?

not him but kill yourself please

weren't the random crits not even random but some scuffed formula that increases the crit chance if you are unlucky

imagine being this retarded

anyone else like playing phlog pyro with thermal thruster and you target skilled snipers on the other team and they try to jarate+melee you but you always position yourself carefully so that their melee is just out of reach and you burn them to death?

>they weren't random but based off a different random chance system

what

backburner and thermal thruster is superior imo. you can reflect projectiles still and it doesn't encourage banzai diving in the face of enemies.

i'm not sure if it's better or not. phlog does suck for not having airblast, but i enjoy phlog because it really pisses off the enemy team.

if at some point ur guaranteed to get the crit it ain't random

user that's not how statistics work

crits are based on recent damage, and any class besides medic is designed to do consistent damage. assuming the heavy would just crit and the scout would not is incorrect. It could be neither, one or the other, or both. And neither players have control over it or can reasonably expect to take advantage of it. it ruins the fight.

randomly losing a fight, often or not, is bad design. if you think 12% is nothing, just remember that a shit game like league of legends got rid of the 1% crit rune. No one likes losing to luck and tf2 is a game of skill. keep in mind, melee weapons crit way more than 12% anyway. When a med instakills you with an ubersaw, not only are you left out of the incoming team fight, but the player was supposed to be able to properly kill the medic in the first place. it ruins the game too often for something so improbable.

statistics are a meme

Does anyone ever email valve about removing them or does everyone just complain in-game everytime they die to it and here?

>randomly losing a fight, often or not, is bad design.

why?
Also how guaranteed do you think the game should be for it to be fun? why not simplify the game to rock paper scissors, but you can guarantee what your opponent will throw?
Why not stop everything and then have players click on their opponents and say they would wish to damage them this turn?
Why not remove all classes and have everyone have 2 hp and have everything deal 1 damage.

>But user, Overwatch doesn't have any rng.
What about all the random faggots you get teamed up with every match?

I have, but not for removing random crits.
I emailed about hiding community servers, some issues with modding, and some fixes for glitches.
They don't seem to listen.

I'm still livid about the attachment issue.
They basically nuked a huge portion of server modding because it effectively allowed people to have cosmetics without "having" them. Even though that was an unintended side effect, and was intended for general modding and side game modes.

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Everyone in this ITT is mad
do NOT stay or u will b mad 2

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>why yes, I do think crits are a fun game mechanic that pisses off try hards in pubs

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they didn't say that defending it was edgy. they said edgy contrarians defend it

Random crits give underperforming players a chance to recover from their losing streaks and MVPs a stronger sense of presence and a greater reason to be targeted by enemies

Or maybe people percieve its defense as edgy because its new, but it only popped up because it was never wholey threatened by someone who could actually do something about it.

No one gives a shit what Dane has to say, the issue is that he will drumb up a wave of parroting support for the idea, and could potentially twist valve's arm into changing it.

losing should be the player's fault, its what separates good players from bad players. why should a good player die to a new player with a crit even though the new player had no idea the crit was going to happen?
tf2 involved strategy, but its not rock paper scissors. You have 9 classes with different playstyles in each class. If you really boil it down to the 2 hp deal, then tf2 has classes and weapon unlocks that sometimes deal 2 damage when specific conditions are met. Not to mention, there is always a potential to mechanically outplay an opponent, and not simply have better positioning or a better strategy, thats the beauty of tf2.
Thats why crits have no place in tf2. Why dodge a 1 damage attack when the next attack does 2? that's unreasonable. Even if you could have potentially dodged both attacks, why should one player have to put in so much more effort than the other just because he got lucky? thats terrible design and its arguably not even his fault. what a god awful system.

and not to pull an uncle dane, but it also makes the learning process for new players rough for no reason. Honestly, I just dont see a single reason to keep crits around other than "its fun"

It's that time again Yea Forums

Who will win? Which team would you join?

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>losing should be the player's fault, its what separates good players from bad players

Only if you're a comp player that thinks winning is the end goal of balance, instead of the fight itself being fun.
Losing should be just a random occurance so everyone can have equal opportunities of fun.

each fight should be near 50/50 chance to win +/- like 5% based on skill differences. There should be nothing massive like a 90/10 in favor of the good player.

I optimized my framerate and networking using mastercomfig and hit-detection is still fucked. I'm strafe-shooting of course

>having a choice
Enjoy your autoscramble at last cap

If we could come to a consensus on a Workshop cosmetic and everyone in the thread supported it, do you think we could get it added? If so, nominate something.

>Only if you're a comp player that thinks winning is the end goal of balance, instead of the fight itself being fun.
>Losing should be just a random occurance so everyone can have equal opportunities of fun.
These 2 sentences conflict each other. If winning isn't everything, and its just about moment to moment fun, they why is giving a win randomly even significant if they didn't have fun?
i think that in addition to the 50/50 point, is the kind of mindset that really made me hate league of legends. I brought it up earlier and its still a good example so what the hell...

I used to play a ton of league because I had a few playstyles I was really good at, but when you really start to learn league and tryhard, you have to do a bunch of shit that isn't fun.
I have suffered through games that I ended up winning and it wasn't worth it. just winning or losing doesn't determine if I had a good time. All the time when I lose in tf2, im still smiling because I was satisfied with what I brought to the table and how I performed. Its why I hate competitive game mods, even tf2's.
getting a crit kill and getting closer to winning isn't even really the goal to me. I wanna -earn- a kill and get closer to winning. Its about the journey and not the destination.
If I get a double kill somewhere away from the objective and my team immediately loses the actual team fight, thats still MY victory.
There are so many games where Im destroying people then I get autobalanced at the last minute, and I don't even care. I still played my heart out and did well.

someone's mad

>RNG
>When the game scales crit chance so doing more damage means more crits
SHIGGY DIGGY DOO

when you do a ton of damage it caps at something under 15%. you can also crit without doing any damage.
When 2 players are both doing damage, they still can't control if they crit or not. yes, dipshit, its random.

Better player still does more damage.

>Better player is supposed to do more damage, even though sometimes he randomly wont
fixed that for you

they're fun

..so? Odds of that happening are too slim to factor in.
The idea that the ever so slightly better player should win 100% of the time is bad game design, rather than the better player should win based on a proportion related to the gap in skill. Im just glad you aren't a game designer.

Because at its core, TF2 is a casual game. 12v12 clusterfucks, random crits, the poor matchmaking, autobalance, none of it is oriented to serious competitive play. The level of mechanical skill involved in Team Fortress 2 retains interest and opportunities to learn, but that is all. It is a multi-layered casual-oriented set of balances on a pub server level. It's a team game in the end, and honor has little place in a game that has a literal backstabber class and an obnoxious asshole flanker. TF2's strength is in its absurdity, a tangled mesh of enthralling gameplay and absurd events.

Enviroment, Other teammates, Current HP, Ammo, do that well enough without a random chance to instantly kill the other player you fucking mongoloid. This is seriously the most retarded argument i've seen for crits, If you like them fine, Just say they're fucking fun instead of acting as if its some great design choice

and it's bad because? Are you playing tf2 for something other then emotional gain?

Then Demoknights would be unstoppable.

Im not a comp fag, I think crits ruin the fun at a casual level. just because I'm not playing for bragging rights and my rank, doesn't mean I can't try to win pubs.
I don't think crits contribute to tf2's absurdity more than the writing, artstyle, and player interactions. Crits make me roll my eyes and scratch my balls for 20 second, not fucking laugh.

Crits prompt player interactions all the time, you should know that.

None of those are random, especially not team if you have friends
Also crits not kill instantly unless you're retarded and actively take on to the face
dont go into game design

Valve has added nothing but taunts and cosmetics after Jungle Inferno. I want new weapons and content with actual bearing.

>. If winning isn't everything, and its just about moment to moment fun, they why is giving a win randomly even significant if they didn't have fun?

Its not significant, the explosion, burst of damage, and the fact that they didn't lose is fun. That killstreak that didn't get interrupted was fun for them. Not winning the match or dieing a few seconds later.

Now you might think "well those killstreaks are impossible when coinflips of 50/50 mean they'll die in the next encounter".

I would agree if everyone faced eachother, but that's primarilly why ambushing mechanics encourages a lot of unfair encounters where one player immediately wins.

Honestly tf2 is incredibly unfair, but that unfairness is for the players benefit instead of the detriment of his opponents.

I just wish the Mannconomy crashed again, be it item-duping and someone flooding the market or another crate glitch.

>Crits prompt player interactions all the time
how is sitting waiting to respawn a player interaction, what in the fuck?? How is instantly dying an "interaction"?
do you mean the chat? like im supposed to type every time I die? fuck no

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Complaints do not automatically entail a majority and frankly, fuckhat mcfagtits, listening to irrelevant minorities is how SJWs got a voice in gaming despite none of them actually playing video games.

I want you to choke on your favourite food

>how is sitting waiting to respawn a player interaction

encouraging team pushing when the entire team is dead, or the recouperation with things like teleporters or falling back desu.

Not always, it depends on the person. Usually the newer players will be prompted into an upset, others will start smashing a bind. Unless you're saying engaging in banter isn't an interaction for some reason.

fuck off, the blue moon update happened after JI
TF2 doesn't need an endless river of new weapons, why not fix the current ones first? thats the whole reason the heavy update is supposed to be happening. He doesn't even need new weapons as much as he needs some stat changes to the brass beast, the natasha, his shotguns, most of his melee weps, and the steak

Yes, i main spy, how did you know?

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>TF2 doesn't need an endless river of new weapons, why not fix the current ones first?

This.
the jungle inferno wrecked a HUGE portion of unlocks. we'd be better off with a fresh set of new updated old weapons that are fun to play than anything else.

having 20 improved old weapons is better than one mediocre gimmick weapon.

that is not why tf2 is fun, you brain damaged sub humans
you shouldn't just lose a point or a match because of a crit, and chat is fucking optional.

Based

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Tf2 has too many conflicting design elements that go against the precedents of the FPS formula. Take maps in Control Points for instance. The layouts go against the concept of flow (a good example would be Quake) with all their meaningless detours, obstacles, and chokepoints alongside the issue of having wide-open areas that lean heavily in Sniper's favor. Engie, Sniper, and Scout themselves are black sheep because Engineer encourages turtling versus actual defensive gameplay, Sniper capitalizes on everyone else's actions, and Spy's a one-trick pony.

>you shouldn't just lose a point or a match because of a crit, and chat is fucking optional.

why not?
the game should start up immediately after a loss and you should be back to playing.

lol
Alright alright
The very fucking thing with random crits is that theyre a part of the game since the start, theyre fun, they make for a weird and chaotic game to be even weirder, theyre great.

Now here comes the faggots like you, and yes the people who are against crits are several things:
Started playing tf2 post 2012
Redditors who watch uncle dane and cant stop bitching for things to change in games they play (truly the reddit way).
Fucking annoying and cry about crits all the time.
Will bitch until something happens (it wont) and probably don't play tf2 at all and do not understand that one of the best thing about Tf2 is how much of a clusterfuck it is.

Now here you go faggot, go back to fucking reddit.

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many weapons are balanced around them, and the game has has had random crits for 12 years already, you cant just remove them.

You know what the worst part of TF2 is?
When people say Medic and expect that to mean use charge, as opposed to using the hit charge command.
If im medic and someone uses medic while im healing them, I just keep healing them

Demo's swords disable random crits.

>endless river
Choking on all the words you put in my mouth and I'd rather have new weapons versus a weapon that's old in name only because Valve doesn't know what it wants. That's a legitimately retarded stance to say no to new content.

Tf2 isn't a time capsule.

It also had the no crit option for 12 years.

>you shouldn't just lose a point or a match because of a crit
Why not? It's a give and take system that happens to everyone provided enough playtime. It's also fairly amusing.
>and chat is fucking optional
Yes, it is, and it's fun to use. It can also be a nice communication tool for your team. Are you sure you aren't the one that's subhuman, not wanting to talk to your teammates?

Because it would require actual effort from Valve.

If you can't read the situation and uber accordingly that's on you desu.

typically I use "go go go" or voice chat.
I won't rage all the time, but if the medic doesn't uber and then dies I might type something.

Crits are amusing until you're on the receiving end.

Hey """"old fag"""", read this post: vanilla tf2 was not perfect.

Nah they're pretty funny when it's particularly game-changing. Maybe you just need a better sense of humor?

>I'd rather have new weapons versus a weapon that's old in name only because Valve doesn't know what it wants. That's a legitimately retarded stance to say no to new content.

thats not saying no to new content, thats saying focus on old content first and fix it.

Reddit spacing outs you for the pretender that you are. Random crits are shit and only neanderthals embrace poor game design.

I LIKE TO CLICK BUTTON AND FEEL GOOD

SOMETIMES BIG DING BANG MAKE ME FEEL REAL GOOD

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So you admit they're a crutch? Someone needs to develop his if he giggles like a toddler when there's bright colors and big numbers.

>typically I use "go go go" or voice chat.
This. The "Hit Charge" button is too far away from the main controls. You need to "Hit Charge" in critical situations, and nobody is going to choose to relinquish their movement or aim for it.

I love taking to my teammates in team chat or even desperately calling out a spy over voice chat
I don't like faggoty lenny binds and anime references. the general community uses the tool that is chat in the worst fucking ways. I often ignore it, but yes, I rarely use it.

Crits aren't amusing to me, wow I love subjective arguments.

>or even desperately calling out a spy over voice chat

don't be this guy.

>particularly game-changing
How bad are you at this game if a random crit is your saving grace?

tf2 is a casual game full of crutches. That's the point.

why are you playing tf2 if you think crutches are bad?

Spy main detected.

unquestionably based

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>I click button and feel joy when things on screen happen in relation to what buttons I press
>sometimes shocking things happen, which feel exhilarating, especially when they add additional fanfare to it

This

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Goal-post moving.

>bright colors and big numbers
I think your reading comprehension went down, especially since I already provided context. Perhaps it's not just your humor that's damaged.

different user, and you have to prove crutches are bad before you can use it as a negative.

This. Tf2 discussions are tertiary as hell because no one actually wants to discuss or criticize the game. Every thread is more of the same.

I didn't say it had to be mine, but it's always worth taunting afterward if it is.

TF2 is a silly game by nature. It's not meant to be taken seriously. As such, critical hits keep the game fresh and they feel great. Fuck off, Dane.

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When I call out for spies, I make it fucking useful. I don't just yell "spy pyro". I actually name the person I'm spectating, then they turn around and shoot the spy, and THANK ME.
>"hey pablo gonzales 2007, youve got a spy coming up to you"
>"oh shit, thanks bro"
Whats the matter user? Do you hate talking to people because you have autism or are you a spy main who never kills duo's on mic?

Cutches are bad because they require very little effort from a player while still being rewarding, hence the term crutch.

Are you sure you're not describing yourself when it comes to failing to understand context considering that's the visual effect for a crit? Also
>damaged humor
Are you autistic?

I don't call out spies while spectating because its basically cheating. I also don't like to call out spies when I see them across the map while spawning.

its all around rude and bad for the spy.
Haven't played spy in forever desu, mostly cause my team is full of them.

I stated if it was game-changing you derelict.

You didn't even watch dane's vid.
he thinks tf2 is silly for way more reasons than just crits and he agrees crits feel great. Why do you complain about something you know nothing about?

>Cutches are bad because they require very little effort from a player while still being rewarding

why should you be required to put more effort in for a reward?
You sound like you want a higher skill floor, is there any reason for this?

>Thread devolves into a non-discussion instead of what weapon buffs they'd like to see, nerfs,
or maps they'd like to play
>random crits literally make up 90% of the conversation
EVERY TIME

>You didn't even watch dane's vid.

I doubt you did. he ends his video begging people to remove crits so it will get a serious E-sports scene, and then normies will consider tf2 to be hyper competitive and serious, which will save tf2.

Hes arguement is nearly identical to the people that think tf2 should look like modern warfare.

Literally tf2 at this point. They added in Ricardo and Wojack cosmetics that normalfags eat up.

>communicating with your team is cheating
>"its rude" in a game where the characters tell you how you suck and laugh at you when they kill you
I can smell your shitty french perfume from here. Just stop replying, this is the last (You) you get.

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>join spectator and then join back to team
>inform teammates where all the sentries are and how high the uber is
>dude its not cheating, I'm just informing them

next you'll say aimbotting isn't cheating, its just a program that communicates your aim better.

RNG as a gameplay mechanic is always horrible. I really shouldn't be surprised that people defend them in a TF2 thread when everyone knows if you want an unbiased opinion, you don't solicit it in a thread dedicated to it.

Invalid.

Not an argument

>lets start with an argument I have no problems against
>"#1 it feels awesome to get a random crit"
I don't care about esports, but his arguments during the video are still rock solid. literally none of you faggots ever ever tried to offer a rebuttal that isn't just subjectively liking them. I think the closest thing is the retarded wojak edit where it just names his arguments and you are supposed to laugh like "wow get a load of these arguments"
he also ends the video telling you to discuss whether or not you agree with him.
I don't think tf2 will ever be #1 on steam in the future, but theres always a surpluss of people installing this cool free game. Just because I hate crits and agree with his vid, doesn't mean I have to be a comp fag.

I use the Manmelter with the phlog. I found it can be really fun in certain situations.
>enemy pyro charging at teammates
>stand behind teammates as pyro w+m1's them
>stack up 9-10 crits before the pyro dies
So satisfying.

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>literally none of you faggots ever ever tried to offer a rebuttal that isn't just subjectively liking them.
the moment it came out people have been making long rebuttals.

The main points of "Its fun, go play a no crit server, tf2 isn't comp its casual" are all you need to hear.

name one flaw of upward other than the sniper sight lines

I just can't stand the projectile.
if this thing shot like a normal flair it would be such a massive buff.

RNG can be used well if the game is centered around risk management, as you have to weigh your uncertainty. TF2 gets flak for it because there is no risk management involved (even though dying is literally nothing), as well as a number of other games that seem outright abusive of it (i.e. using a scarcely-given healing item, failing the heal, the item gets consumed anyway).

this was?

What other games are meant to have poor game design that the devs refuse to fix?

>than the sniper sight lines

thats ironically one of the best parts about upward. Having really good sniper spots means you know exactly where they'll be, and can avoid them reliably.

One major flaw imo is that the team will never defend 3rd, and if blue builds a teleporter in the house between 2nd and 3rd, blue automatically loses.

The Beggar's Bazooka should have been called the RNG RPG. The stats should have been a higher a crit ratio at the risk of the rocket imploding and critting yourself.

Based and critpilled

>+20% increase to crit cap
>-self damage crits are actual crits

>random crits are the only thing that differentiate tf2 from say call of duty
your argument literally has no basis in reality. why the FUCK should anyone listen to your bullshit?

so if your killstreak gets interupted for no reason, its "justified" because it was "their turn"? Coinflip decided events takes fate out of the players hand in a skill based game, its why Overwatch got rid of its literal coinflip.
crits aren't even 50/50, but I'll humor this weak argument. Why should a good player be required to lose to a worse player with a moderate winrate? tf2 does not hand hold you, definitely not 45-55% of the time at that.
I think the existance of dominations is evident that tf2 rewards skilled players for shitting on less skilled players and making them resort to different strategies and playstyles.
tf2 is less fair when you consider a 12v12 clash of players, but the balance around 1v1 interactions encourages team coordination. its an entirely different skill than just mechanics, which crits also ruin regularly.
Ive made all the points I wanted to. remove crits.

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SOMETIMES I PUSH BUTTON AND THING HAPPENS

SOMETIMES I PUSH IT AGAIN AND IT DO DOUBLE AND I CLAP

That's why demopan is surpreme

I got used to the projectile after using it for a while. It's definitely weaker than the other flareguns but I mostly use it for extinguishing anyway. I like using the phlog but I also like helping out my teammates.

>so if your killstreak gets interupted for no reason, its "justified" because it was "their turn"?

there is a reason.
they hit me. and yeah my streak might get ended, but that's more than likely because my health was low. remember its only a 2% chance for them to actually crit me without dealing any damage. Otherwise they were also on a rampage.

>Coinflip decided events takes fate out of the players hand in a skill based game, its why Overwatch got rid of its literal coinflip.

They unironically got rid of the coinflip because comp players were complaining about it, and only cared about their wins and losses. If you randomly chose if you were attacker or defender it would matter at all to you outside comp.

>crits aren't even 50/50, but I'll humor this weak argument
Actually thats more the percentage of how fights should work, and there isn't really much percentage wise.
Most fights are first person to get ambushed and hit, then the fight ends there when they shoot them again. Crits barely factor into this balance outside of surprisingly changing up the ambush or automatically killing someone. the former is a 2% chance, and the latter doesn't matter because you were already going to win the encounter. it just improves your killstreak because you save ammo for the next ambush.

>think the existance of dominations is evident that tf2 rewards skilled players for shitting on less skilled players and making them resort to different strategies and playstyles.

Actually they exist to make the fights more personal. they also exist simply because revenge feels sweet. Domming doesn't feel as good as getting back at the guy thats been hiding behind his team getting assists off on

>but the balance around 1v1 interactions encourages team coordination.
you.
No, this is why the game has such a long time limit. Just so bad teams can randomly cobble together a win no matter how bad they are.

>which crits also ruin regularly.
Like I said they barely touch them

>SOMETIMES I PUSH IT AGAIN AND IT DO DOUBLE AND I CLAP
tripple user
But how did you know I like to press the taunt button after a crit?

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No, man. You're supposed to taunt after every kill. Even if it's not your's.

Be. In. Every. Deathcam.

that makes sense, but what do I do when I kill multiple people at once?

Would be funny as hell to see someone rocketjump only to implode in mid-air

would be like a 2% chance of happening

but yeah.

imagine if there were like little fireworks or something when you kill yourself.

How ever many you killed is the amount of times you have to taunt.

Who else shares the brilliant strategy of pretending to be friendly only to back-cap and kill everyone?

The only real way to play Huntsman is to shoot blindly in corridors and Schadenfreude, prove me wrong.

that makes sense, gives you time to wait for them to respawn.

>steel sucks it's too complicated

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valve will never remove them, keep crying bitch faggot

Shoot huntsman and then dance taunt.
it changes your profile so you can dodge anyone thats aiming at you, and you can check around corners. Additionally because how stupid great huntsman is at close combat, you can actually cancel the taunt and insta headshot people.

I rarely do the check around corners thing, but I love doing the dance taunt to lul people into a sense of security.

I never kill people that just run up to dance though.

it's fun and comp isn't, that's it

50% of the map is spawn rooms and the center point is a clusterfuck maze of random barriers that only red can go through.

it's just ecelebs assblasted when soldier can oneshot him and his pocket medic

maybe we should ask valve to remove pocket medics, why should streamers get an insane advantage just because they're popular?

>they hit me
Well then they can hit you again, like 7/9 classes are intended to. I do not see a purpose for this exception.
>2% chance
but you can never be sure. If you flank someone, who knows how much damage they just dealt within 20 seconds before you got there? The fight should be decided purely by who outplays the other person. Will the flanker win with his advantage or will the poor soul perform well on the spot? Meanwhile, 2 people on the other side of the map go head to head: may the best man win. The people who win fights should truly deserve to win it, and not just get lucky
>Like I said they barely touch them
if crits barely impact team fights, then why has this discussion existed for years? Why would a bad team just "win no matter how bad they are" if it weren't for the existance of crits and how they are objectively unfair?

Thats unironically why medics get less uber when they pocket.

I think casual would be even more fun without crits

Lol, keeping eating shit.

why.

>why has this discussion existed for years?
Salt.

Everyone hates rng. Why do devs keep putting it in games?

keep coping overwatch reject valve will never pander to your kind ahahahahahhaha

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It keeps the game fresh

I would get to play a ton of 12v12 games without worrying about my rank and I wouldn't occasionally die to something out of my control
I fucking hate losing killstreaks to crits. Theres just no reason for it.

>Well then they can hit you again, like 7/9 classes are intended to. I do not see a purpose for this exception.

I'm saying there is a reason your kill streak ended, because they hit you. its not the randomness of a crit that kills you but being hit itself. more often than not that would have killed you because your health was already low on the kill streak.

>but you can never be sure. If you flank someone, who knows how much damage they just dealt within 20 seconds before you got there?
see typically they are low health already or they didn't deal any damage. If they were on a rampage of their own and you spot eachother at the same time, its up to a coin flip who continues.

>if crits barely impact team fights, then why has this discussion existed for years? Why would a bad team just "win no matter how bad they are" if it weren't for the existance of crits and how they are objectively unfair?

Because winning means the game starts over and the other team can play blue and try and stomp red. Objectively unfair things exist because the gameplay ends justify the means.

Conditional crits are the patrician's choice, anything is plebian garbage. Feels good actually working for something.
>DemoKnighting
>Sniping
>Backstabbing
>Kritz
>Krit-a-cola
>Frontier Ranger
>Buff Banner
>Steak Sandvich
>KGB

>Everyone hates rng

Why do casinos and board games even exist?

>caring about killstreaks
Foolish boy

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Conditional crits are overpowered or broken.

How's it broken when you fulfill the condition meriting them?

For boomers

the results are broken for the conditions required, and exponentially high results for exponentially high conditions still don't balance out.

That's just a skill ceiling or a balance disparity, where a rare condition has absurdly unfair results.

diamondback needs to fucking go
crit-a-cola never should've existed

>absolute faggot has a chat bind for whining about random crits
>mfw dominating him then continuing to kill him repeatedly

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>diamondback needs to fucking go

>everyone laughed that diamond back was shit
>suddenly now that amby is gone it "needs to go"
>just keep nerfing the game until we hit eachother with kisses and butterfly farts

Literally just kill them.

Stick near your teammates, strafe, and shoot them. There, a fool-proof strat for crits of all kinds.

Some of those you can't "just kill them".
Especially with the way tf2 is balanced.

If someone pulls out a guarantee crit weapon, no matter what you do or where you are, if they so much as touch you, you're dead.
Simply cause you can't kill them in time with the first hit.

And the main issue isn't the damage, but the lack of falloff.

>without worrying about my rank
aaaaah so you're compshitter, shouldve said so earlier!
>caring about killstreaks
this game isn't for you and you started playing after 2012

>your health was already low on the kill streak.
yea maybe on a suiciding pyro? It is not impossible or out of the question for a player to retreat to health packs or fall back to a medic or dispenser after a kill. I don't think having kills under your belt dictates how low your current health is.
>typically they are low health already or they didn't deal any damage.
personally, ive learned to stop expecting this unless you play spy. It is never valid to assume what someone's health is unless you assume its full or overhealed. Smart players are ready for full duration fights, but even a smart player cannot predict crits or make decisions based on invisble opponent damage numbers.
>winning means the game starts over
Not if its the last round and everyone leaves because of how the map vote went. Nothing puts a sour note on a game like truly ending a match because of crits, because we know its bad game design.

The Diamondback is just a crutch for performing the main functions of Spy.

Sticking to your team unironically does not do anything, they can pick you off from afar with crits.

How do I reflect soldier's rockets?

>The Diamondback is just a crutch for performing the main functions of Spy

>we reward players for playing spy with crits
>they deal 90 damage, the general damage of a shtogun so they can defend themselves
>this is a problem because its like... a crutch and I don't like that word

Most of them you can indeed kill if you weren't trying to fight solo.
>damage falloff
Distancing.

That's because they let it charge up using backstabs instead of just buildings sapped. It became a lot more practical to get the crits. Amby nerf was overkill given its reasoning.

I don't play comp, I dont care about esports, I thought I made that clear. I play pubs because I don't care about loss or winstreaks.
they shouldn't affect who I get matched with. Playing ranked sucks anyway because you play less games and have to restart constantly.

Getting crits for doing basic actions is retarded. It would be along the lines of giving Scout a crit each time he jumped or Engineer a crit for each building he built or for each teleporter. Greentext more.

light them, :wait: , right click

also most enemy players have a pattern for their fire, unless they purposefully break their pattern you can reflect their rocket. They rarely break pattern unless they're looking right at you.
If they do that, just flame them if you're close (airblasting immediately after). or switch to a secondary hit them, dodge the rocket, and then switch back to flamethrower because they're back into their pattern.

>Distancing.
>there is no damage falloff
>well then I'll back off

are you retarded?

*teleport

>Getting crits for doing basic actions is retarded.
>it would be like medic getting crits from healing
>or a gun that gave crits from healing
>or engineer crits from repairing
>or a sniper crits for headshotting
>or a spy crits for backstabbing
>or engineer a crit for each sentry kill

>Distancing
>Crit-a-cola scout hits you for 20, same for the rest of the classes when you're far enough
You're garbage at playing and if it was OP, everyone would be using it.

You either have to kill someone or successfully sap a building, your examples would be more in-line with damaging someone or gaining crits while cloaked.

>dodge the rocket
you know they're shooting at your feet and not directly at you right?

>Crit-a-cola scout hits you for 20, same for the rest of the classes when you're far enough

well first off we would be talking about spy and his diamond back.
Second off the main issue with critacola was that scouts could essentially meatshot far outside his close range.
You are arguing against not only basic logic and comp niggers but facts and numbers.

>Krits still leaves medics vulnerable to backstabs, headshots, and other classes with greater dps
>Sniper has to carefully track opponents movement while still being at the mercy of whoever is nearby and wait for a charge
Spies deserve their backstabs, considering what's needed to pull it off
>Frontier Justice requires the sentry to be destroyed

Crit-a-cola only does minicrits now, which are subject to falloff. Different from normal crits.

Unless they're close you can dodge the rocket aimed at your feet.
Best trick is to jump ontop of props or objects and get the high ground. jumping off objects in tandem with them shooting rockets will drastically lower damage.

the trick is to stick to med-long with flairs, or short-medium with flamethrower. don't get zoned.

Maybe in your head. Get good, get better.

but you didn't kill him with crits every single time
thats why its truly satisfying

>while still being at the mercy of whoever is nearby and wait for a charge

such as?
snipers typically stand behind his teammates and place them inbetween him and you.

>Spies deserve their backstabs, considering what's needed to pull it off
but you can't give them 90 damage? the same damage litterally every other class revolves around?

>Frontier Justice requires the sentry to be destroyed
Isn't that essentially rewarding failure? which should be even worse?

If you're against conditional crits, you really are bad at the game.

>I give up
thats fine this crit arguement is stupid

>comp fags are bad at the game

true desu, they can't even handle pub stars.

Snipers can be flanked, know the map and move erratically if you're in the sightline.
If a spy was close enought to backstab you, that's due to a lack of diligence.
That's to prevent it from being a straight upgrade since you're trading a sentry for crits. Some situations call for a sentry moreso than crits and adds a tactical layer of depth.

upward is a good map. dustbowl isn't

Go ahead and take your ball and leave.

You don't cap the objective at HIghtower, do you?

>Snipers can be flanked

that is highly dependent on the map, and if he can be flanked, its usually a bad map that allows spawn camping. This is also ignoring the team having a sentry of any sort.

>move erratically if you're in the sightline.
This doesn't help if he can catch you the moment you switch directions. no eratic behavior will help you there.

>If a spy was close enought to backstab you, that's due to a lack of diligence.
Spy is close enough to shoot you with 90 damage.

>That's to prevent it from being a straight upgrade since you're trading a sentry for crits.

Diamond back isn't a direct upgrade, and you also lose the abillity to shoot your revolver in any other situation where you don't want to spend your crits.

Justify your shit weapon some more.

No you take the ball, I didn't even want it. Its dumb and I've got a cooler ball at home. It's shiny, can talk, and can transform.

I'm not, I prefer the free cloak gun. I'm just saying your comparison is shit.

Your ball sounds gay and I bet it doesn't even have flames on it or play MP3.

>>>>>>>hightower

i'll never set foot in a cringelord community clique ever again

>I hate the dead ringer because it promotes playing like a retard

>I hate diamond back because it promotes playing spy like hes supposed to be played

which is it.

Sounds like it.

It plays wav files which are like 10 times better than MP3s, it doesn't use flames it has ice, which is litterally cooler.

Dead ringer is okay, it just so happens a majority of people who use it have no idea what they're doing.

My ball fucked your mom and is now your new step-dad and it says I get to have your stuff.

It sounds like you just want replies man. Kinda desperate too, since my reply wasn't aimed directly at crit debacle you and your girlfriend were just arguing over.

>cloak and dagger
>10 seconds of time waiting to recharge
>5 seconds of actually running around while cloaked

Seriously how did valve think this was a good idea. It should just be infinite cloak but longer decloak. or it should just allow you to run around for longer, but you need to stand still for some arbitrary downside.

Or seriously anything that could make it an interesting playstyle that involves planning out your backstabs.

My ball already casted mirror and now you're gay for my ball.

Get better at countering snipers, it's the last time I'll tell you this since I'm able to do it even as a Heavy. It's more advantageous to go on a backstab spree if you can chain it off. When wouldn't you want to use your crits?

Welp, I'm getting them. Keep doing so, it shows superiority.

>Get better at countering snipers
you need to play against better snipers then.

Thanks you too.

Skub

Overwatch has better porn so it's the superior game. It also lacks a retarded weapon drop system.

why are you talking about overwatch in a tf2 thread
fuck off matpat

Just a make a server where no one can take damage unless it's a random crit.

I'm

Anyone else here doesn't feel satisfied after getting a random crit? I practice MGE every other day to refine my aiming skills and getting a random crit is like a slap in the face "You don't really deserve that kill".

Cringe gamer poster

TF2 is for high test men who aren't slaves to pussy

So homosexuals?

This, I was having such an amazing fight with a guy for 20 minutes, then when I crit him it was all over. I couldn't stop crying.

Based homosexuals.

Why do people boogeyman Dane so much? I'm pretty sure People were complaining so many years before the vid.

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because "eceleb bad" and they otherwise have literally no argument
dane is kind of a blockhead but for other unrelated reasons that have no bearing on this fucking subject

we need to go faster

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>I'm pretty sure People were complaining so many years before the vid.

I think a lot of people won't admit this.
the real problem is Danes message in his video and his reasoning.
Sure removing random crits might not kill the game.
His reasoning, and the E-celeb power is the problem.

He unironically wants the game to not only conform to his views based on his taste, Not only conform to competives views (people that disagree with this viewpoint ironically).

He wants to conform to the people that don't play the game, and get them to start playing again.

Unironically make the game more competitive, to reach a broader audience.

Because it's an easy way to dismiss someone's position when you have no argument of your own.

Because Dane has a "voice" as a big-name TF2 youtuber so people tend to rally or go against him in addition to the points he makes. B4nny had some manner of influence in changing some in-game items since they messed with comp balancing so some of that paranoia might be warranted; that Valve might listen to someone who sounds reasonable and has clout with the community. It's not Dane himself per se so much as it is his presence that is doing the talking.
This pretty much, too. People always bitched about crits it's just that it gained a ton of traction once Uncle Funkle and his big butt piped up.

They hate dane because he brought arguments to the table that were not subjective
The only thing pro crit fags have to say is that they like crits and they are funny

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>Why do people boogeyman Dane so much?

because he unironically has the power to change tf2, and has no idea what the fuck hes talking about, but only has a point based on circumstances.

He's essentially parroting his opinion based on subjective feelings, and has a horrible arguement and understanding of the game. Not only that, he genuinely thinks he knows more than the game developers because he makes youtube videos online, and plays with b4nny.

oh boy here we fucking go
why is his argument horrible? How would you defeat his arguments?
refer to this or watch his vid

in order

Tf2 is casual focussed, that's why classes with low skill floors exist and why classes like sniper have a charge mechanic for his sniper rifle to lower his ceiling.

Being an old concept of balance to keep the game flowing doesn't make it bad. The concepts are all the same, there has been no major shifts in designs that would undo the purpose of crits.

There is nothing wrong with spamming, you are contributing to the team and the output. there is no "feeding" in the game in a casual sense. Bad players can fuck around and play friendly heavy and everyone else can have a fun time.

High level skills are not invalidated. they're just circumvented and brought down to a casual level momentarilly. You can still know how many hits you need to kill a pyro regardless of crit chance.

Thats subjective.

I don't even know where to go with this one, there is a divide so anyone can join any type of match they want. Some people want to play a fun pub game. others want to play no-crits.
If you have such an issue with this you should have been more vocal when the search tool was lost.

#noideawhatthatmeans

>How would you defeat his arguments?
"Join or host a no-crit server."
"don't make pubs cater to your competitive ideals"
"competitive doesn't actually make something more valid, casual games can be fun and its not wrong to enjoy them"
"If people aren't playing this game, a vapid e-sports scene won't drum up a crowd of people that will improve the game"

mini crits exist

And are more busted than random crits in every way possible.

I don't know why they ignore falloff, they could have just been a damage boost. In fact for the class they existed on, it was simply a 35% damage boost because he lacked fall off to begin with.

blue and pocket the soldier

Just because tf2 is casual doesn't mean its fun to die for no reason and stare at the respawn screen. casual games can be tense and involve skill
map design has changed alot, and many alternative weapons that favor different playstyles have been added, some involving earning crits rather than sometimes getting them.
the learning point isnt just about holding m1 while looking at the team, its about positing and not relying on crits. Bad players are supposed to keep learning and even skilled players can go friendly if they want, holy fuck thats retarded and not related at all
ok you know how many hits you can take, but you took less hits and died anyway? fun, right? have fun staring at the respawn timer.
what is funny is subjective, but crits are not the only thing that someone would laugh at in all of tf2
comp is w/e

your reasons suck, not gonna lie

>casual games can be tense
no

In addition to what has already been mentioned, I have a particular gripe about his trickle-down balance because it doesn't factor the communities involved. Competitive TF2 has always been a fairly niche community, and dane himself mentions that there's a variety of formats of competitive play (which split the competitive community further) with their own separate rules. Casual TF2 players generally don't have much interest in competitive, and under its current model there's a phone barrier, competitive matchmaking in practice acts like a casual matchmaker that provides less and less people to play with due to how it filters the ranked players, fragmenting their playerbase further.
Dane wants competitive to have more players, while supporting the various formats of competitive, and his plan to do that is to remove a silly mechanic in casual lobbies with casual mechanics, with casual rules. Competitive has a lot more problems that stem from the problems the game has by default (rampant cheating for instance), so it's not going to bring people in. Instead all it would do is convert casual servers to be slightly more like competitive. If casual and competitive bridge together too much, casual players will be alienated (because like overwatch, there's almost no difference between comp and quickplay). There will be no goofing around, and no reason for competitive players to move from their roost when they now have the kind of matchmaking they want. Casual players would have to rely on community servers or put up with the competitive community that can't figure out the difference between casual and competitive anymore.
Dane's overall idea is to turn casual into competitive. By allowing him to remove random crits it's no different than how they butchered the caber and the sticky jumper. Sure, random crits is just one stupid fun thing. But taking one stupid fun thing at a time is how they get it all, like the idiot savant who took pennies over quarters.

>casual games can be tense and involve skill
Those are the worst because that's often accompanied by the competitive community's habit of micromanaging. That's also not what someone playing casual typically goes for. That's not even the definition of casual, that's the exact opposite. There's nothing wrong with skill, but the intensity is where the line is drawn for those communities.

>Casual TF2 players generally don't have much interest in competitive
to be fair, thats valve's fault. Theres no incentive to even bother except a stupid fucking badge, thats why the official comp player base is so small
but crits isn't a silly mechanic, its a fucking obnoxious one that just hurts the flow of a match.

I also fail to see how goofing around would disappear in pubs

>Competitive TF2 has always been a fairly niche community

This, its like someone point to the melee community and claiming smash needs to cater to them. And then the melee community laughs and says "please don't".

Because shitposting about crits increased 10 fold after he made his shit video.
We can't have one fucking thread about this cursed game without you absolute retards barging in and throwing out shit suggestions that wont change anything because valve is lazy as shit and doesn't give a shit about its fanbase or what they care about.
You people just need to shut up already.

I unironically only like random crits when they kill someone that's doing better than me and/or a soldier/heavy and his pocket.

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every match, people rush the point at overtime as if they want to win. I have never had a teammate ask me to do something that ruined my experience. I think you just hate communication.
>hey can you spy check
>hurt yourself so we can farm uber
>engie plz finish the teleporter
yea people screaming to get on the point when you can't is typical trash, but you can mute specific voices

you are a non chad posting chad pics
I think wojaks are more your speed

>to be fair, thats valve's fault.

>99% of players being unable to play comp is valves fault the comp scene is small
>what we really need are more badges, even though they're clogging up valves development time, and they're begging people to stop asking for badges
>a lack of badges is why the comp scene is small

uh
is this post satire?

How do you get "we need more badges" out of "the only incentive for comp is a stupid fucking badge"?

I dunno I'm pretty tired and upset about badges atm.

ecelebs are cancer I hope valve never listens to them

shut up geek

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RED if I want to win, and BLU if I want to help them win. Also Blaze is leagues more fuckable than Feenis.

I enjoy getting a random crit and killing three people instantly more than I dislike being killed instantly by a crit. Don't you?

Only spergs who need something to blame when they lose are triggered by rng

>complaining about random crits when autobalance exists
There is nothing worse than getting autobalanced to the losing team then getting fucked over

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>A trap is more fuckable than a guy who lives inside a sweaty costume made of fur

Well you're not wrong

Imagine removing autobalance and teamswitching, then make a worse system, and then revert the change and removing team switching.

All they have to do is remove last second autobalancing and I'll never bitch about getting switched. Even though I never really bitch, its a necessary evil

go to bed user, have a save holiday weekend

thanks.
oh shit labor day you're right.

Absolutely no one fucking likes getting destroyed by a random crit, no matter if you have the same chances to crit your opponent yourself. Ever heard of "loss aversion"? It's the same fucking thing.

>me in chat: "lgbt = mental illness"
>immediate vote kick against me
>hear no after no after no
>vote fails
is there a better feeling?

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>type tranny tranny nigger jew in chat
>get votekicked from server despite topfragging on scoreboard

hope they lost

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>why yes I always go into melee fight with my pan because it crits every time for me, how did you know?

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Spy watch that has infinite cloak but marks you for death while cloaked

Good idea yes or no

I'm scared to the day when valve crumbles against the retards and actually remove random crits. They are really vocal about it (event though they clearly doesnt play the game), but luckily they always say the same sentence almost word to word, so you can see the herd mentality.

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>somebody types in chat "im gonna say the n word"
>respond with "what, a nigger?"
>tranny pyro main starts votekick because muh racism
>vote fails
>someone starts votekick for that pyro and he got kicked

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>but luckily they always say the same sentence almost word to word, so you can see the herd mentality.
You're pretty deluded if you really think that this only counts for one of the two sides. You're completely missing the takeaway that the random crit discussion is a dead horse, and the only way to get anything meaningful out of it at this point is to force everyone to play both crit and nocrit and make an ingame poll at the end of that experiment.

>for
>needing a reason to play anything
Faggot.

point taken. I always just notice the remove random crits pattern because thats mainly what I'm focusing on.
You could fix this whole issue if you bring back community servers proper where the admin can adjust this to his liking. Like when I played on an orange server with 0 spread and always crits. SMG just shreds everyone

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Why do people even want random crits removed in pubs, what's the point?

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Because getting killed when you were winning and doing nothing wrong is antifun. Most humans and some other animals have a strong, innate sense of justice.

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>Arguments against random crits:
false reasons
false reasons
conclusion not inferred by reason
>Arguments for random crits:
Correct and only thing anyone should care about
correct you faggot cuck double-nigger soi boi newfag redditor NPC discord-tranny gamer uncle-dane-fag
weak argument that happens to have a correct conclusion

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oh no a crit destroyed my sentry and dispenser
they must be removed !

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great post cuckold

I think he had a hard time comprehending the post because you literally went off into a buzzword filled seizure near the end.

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>tfw fired a random crit pill over a wall and dominated a guy i killed with random crits before

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Removing random crits reduces the entropy potential of a match, therefore making it more predictable, therefore making it more boring.

I get what you mean, but that's not what crits do. The opposite even happens because the chance scales with the damage you already dealt, which makes the winning team snowball.

F A S T E R

>a game with already perfect gameplay
Imagine being this much of a fucking casual

When the game was designed by actually competent people the sniper was hindered by sightlines. Anyone who can actually design a decent map left long ago though.

>but now that there's something that could possibly done about it they're more outspoken.
You actually think that Valve, 2019 Valve, is going to not only remove a feature that's been in the game for 12 years, a feature they defend in the commentary as being a big part of the game, but also rework the entire game since a lot of weapons are based around the downside of having no crits.
Just because a few posts on Yea Forums and reddit and the occasional retarded bind in-game complain? Despite the fact that every poll I've seen for removing or letting random crits stay in have been in favor of letting them stay?

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you ever notice how its only the people that get killed by random crits are the ones that complain?
Never seen a guy complain about random crits helping him to wipe out the entire enemy team

Crits are there to break stalemates. TF2 is a game fundamentally about stalemates. They're easy to set up, and meatgrinders are common. Crits prevent any perfect defense and thus are an important part of the game.
>b-but I don't care how the game is supposed to be played I just want to DM as soldier/demo
Kill yourself, newfag.

Threadly reminder that Dane joined TF2 in 2013, and he has the absolute audacity to believe he knows what's best for the game, and he tries to push those beliefs onto his viewers.
His random crits video isn't to blame, either. He thinks that in order to fix engie cooperative engineering would have to be removed.

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This. A good evidence for this is that capturing a point is rather fast, unlike most games that capturing takes a long time, with the timer on the matches usually being rather long.

>since a lot of weapons are based around the downside of having no crits
I feel like they're already doing that. Market Gardener didn't need a swing speed nerf when random crits exist, but still it got one.

>get killed, staring at the respawn timer
vs
>just killed three people with a crocket, let's see how I can use this advantage
Just by virtue of not having anything to do for the next dozen seconds it's easier to complain about crits when you die to one.

I'm sick of all these dumb reddit niggers bitching about crits. If you dont want random crits, go play overwatch. Random crits spice up the game, and the fact you incel betas cant handle a little action in your fps is hilarious. Just castrate yourselves lol

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False, A scout getting a crit on his primary weapon means he maybe one shots the medic or the pyro he would take 2-3 shots on otherwise, a Soldier or Demo getting a crit on their rocket/grenade can instagib 4+ people in one hit.

random crits have been infamous in TF2 since they existed, crockets have been the bane of many people in the in game chat and on YT. If you truly believe everyone "accepted" rng crits before Dane then youre retarded.

>Ullapool Caber nerfed
>all shields and charges nerfed
>zatoichi nerfed

did Demoknight and suicide bomber really need the nerfs?

>try hard soldier with pink cosmetics gets 5 kills off a crocket on payload.
>Spams his premium purchased emotes on your entire team

I bet that was fun for you right?

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>Actually letting taunts get under your skin

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NOOO I DIED TO A CRIT AND A SMELLY PLEB PICKED UP MY EPIC AUSTRALIUM WEAPON THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING GABE COME BACK REMOVE THEM

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