Does Bethesda need new Engine ?

bethesda implememnted train as npc head. htis is fact and i stayed on facts the whole time.

fact is also that this is embarassing outdated engine limitation and clear sign that technology they are using is obsolete.

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Yes and no, if bethesda was on top of things from the start this would be a good engine.
But the almost on purpose desire to not fix bugs or clean up&upgrade stuff of the engine for over a decade has created this.
At this point its easier to just buy a new engine from some third party and start from scratch.
And fallout battleroyal or whatever it was called was the cherie on the shitcake.

its way too small

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This is the dumbest fucking walled city I've ever seen. The capital building is at the highest point and the walls don't cover shit. If this city was ever under siege the jarl's stupid gay castle would be destroyed in a couple hours by catapults.

No, they don't. You know absolutely nothing about game development.

Fuck off todd.

They should have divided the cities in sections separated loading screens

they'll just use unreal if they thought they needed a new engine

>Does Bethesda need (a) new Engine?
No, they need to have less retarded devs, more ambition and to (maybe) screw consoles. The Enderal devs showed what you could do with the engine if you know how it works and how to take advantage of it

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if they go to a new engine, what will become of mods tho? if i cant lewd tf out of elder scrolls, what the point?

enlighten us then, how come there is no occlusion culling in the year of 2019.

DF Unity has better mod support than any new gamebryo game could hope to have.

Catapults wouldn't be able to hit the castle, there's a loading screen in the way.

>Does Bethesda need new Engine ?
Ah, the age old question.

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Yeah but they dont need to since no one else makes heavily modable open world games with character customation. They have captured that market to themself

pretty much everything was randomly generated in arena and if you tried to walk to another town without fast travel it would just indefinitely generate that same area
based retard posters from 1997

Guys just stop bickering and accept the fact Bethesda is a tier away from mobile phone gameplay, it's all downhill, and not a single artist would go anywhere near Zenimax at this point

Can anyone explain to me why they can't use the same engine they use for ESO?

You don't even know what a game engine is

He is right faggot

ESO engine was made for MMO.
ES6 will not be an MMO

>can't even implement ladders
>ladders are an engine limitation
kys you know nothing child

Like?
Also, Gamebryo is basically NetImmerse 1.5
And yes, I was there at GDC 2007.

>in 2011 they dare to put out "city" of winterhold which is 3 buildings with 4 npc
>can't even implement ladders
>need to implement train as npc head
None of these things have fuck all to do with the engine you massive idiot.

>the engine has many limitations
Source?

oh come on source isn't THAT bad

>came into this thread to post this
>mfw

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>>in 2011 they dare to put out "city" of winterhold which is 3 buildings with 4 npc
What's your point here. They've made larger cities in past games and all players did was complain about how big they were and how they couldn't find anything. This was done you please you shitters.

>>can't even implement ladders
That's a design decision, not an engine limitation. It doesn't really mesh with their design philosophy and approach so they don't bother with them and aren't needed.

>>need to have loading screen to open wardrobe because engine doesn't even have occlusion culling
But it does. They're just following convention.

>>need to implement train as npc head
Design decision to easily create the illusion of a running train instead of adding a new system just for a minor DLC. Don't even know why this is an issue when Nuka World has the trams.

>>can't in any way change combat to be better than 2004 tier games
Combat has changed several times over the series. What you're meaning to say is that the animations are complete garbage which is the only real issue you've brought up.

If it's the engine's fault that the graphics are bad, how do we have graphics mods for it, genius?

>>in 2011 they dare to put out "city" of winterhold which is 3 buildings with 4 npc
Fuck you, dude, Winterhold is explicitly a ruined hovel.
You posted a pic of Whiterun. You don't need to make disingenuous statements to make an argument.

>engine doesn't even have oclusion culling
what the fuck are you talking about
every bethesda game on gamebryo had that tech since at least morrowind
you sure love spilling buzzword to appear smart, don't you?

kek

He's spouting train head memes, of course he's retarded

You worthless fool.
Skyrim was already an MMO.

You need to be 18 to post here

The shitty engine is a component of that though.

>actually defending Bethesda's "cities"
Holy fucking shit. No wonder they can stay afloat if they have loyal shit-eaters like you.

>Can anyone explain to me why they can't use the same engine they use for ESO?
Hero Engine is legitimately one of the worst engines out there. Gamebryo BAD is a Yea Forums meme spouted by parrots that have not even the first clue of how engines work.

Blaming the engine for the "problems" in Bethesda games is idiots. The "problems" stem from game design nothing more.

-In games like GTA, or Witcher 3, every NPC is rendered as a single object, with nothign under thier clothes, because you can't take off NPC clothes
-In a Bethesda game, every NPC is rendered as multiple objects because you can take off every piece of armor, clothing, weaponry, jewelry, etc. etc. ,creating a situation where each NPC takes up much more processing power as a result.

-In games like GTA or Witcher 3, all the NPCs in citites run off of one large citizen script that directs them to walk/drive around all the time, and none of them have any sort of unquie schedule
-In a Bethesda game, when you enter a city like Whiterun, there are well over 100 different NPC scripts running because each named NPC, and many of the generic guards, have their own unique daily schedule, and the game has to run and keep track of not only the NPCs in the town proper, but also of NPCs in houses if their schedule takes them outside the house.

-In games like GTA or Witcher 3, you can't pick up or move any object, and what little things you can move or beak get deleted from memory and reset instantly the moment you leave
-In a Bethesda game, every fork, spoon, knife, and cheese well not only can be moved, but has havok physics enabled on it, and every object that gets moved gets saved into the memeory so it can stay moved until the cell resets in 10-30days.

All of these contribute to extra resource gain that results in smaller cities and less NPCs compared to something like GTA or W3. It has nothing to do with the engine, but game design, which is why those games don't even attempt to have the same level of interaction as a Bethesda game does

Bethesda didn't even make ESO, you retard.

>the same level of interaction as a Bethesda game does
You mean hearing 2 generic lines and getting a fetch quest?
Holy shit, thank you so much Bethesda. At last I truly see.

not the same guy but morrowind specifically doesn't have occlusion culling. open up the game, monitor memory usage and type twf

Read my post again, you ignorant, lacking-in-reading-comprehension, knuckle-dragging fucking NIGGER.

You obviously know nothing about engine development.
googame.net/features/creation-engine-what-it-cant-do/

I felt like Solitude was the only ok city, all the rest were too small. The villages felt fine though

>You mean hearing 2 generic lines and getting a fetch quest?
Except no NPC has that little dialog.

Even generic guards have over 100+ lines based on the city they are in quests you have completed, artifacts you might be using etc.etc. And NPCs in towns have several scripted conversations with other NPCs in towns.

Also
>moving goalposts
>Not actually countering any of the points made
idiot.

>The Creation Engine has limitations that make climbing ladders, dynamic jumping and cover shooting impossible. You can fly in Fallout but no aerial maneuvers a-la Anthem. The inabilities of the Engine limits designer creativity and negatively impacts the experience.

There's literally cover shooting in Fallout 4. Dismissed.

Not the guy you replied to, but I don't think he was trying to defend Bethesda, just explain the difference between an engine limitation and a game design decision to laymen for a specific situation.

examples?

Framerate being tied to processing speed is no longer a thing with Fallout 76 either and Fallout 4 has interior spaces that are in the open world.

>googame.net/features/creation-engine-what-it-cant-do/
Not him but many of the things in this are wrong.

>The Creation Engine has limitations that make climbing ladders, dynamic jumping and cover shooting impossible
Fallout 4 has a lean out cover system in it that both the player and NPCs can use. Ladders aren't impossible because of they engine, Bethesda just chooses not to include them because of the way NPCs interact with them.

>The Creation Engine only allows single axis modification which is why caves and interior spaces are never in the open world.
This is also wrong. Interiors are in cells because the insides tend to be bigger then the outside, and for basic optimization purposes for consoles and lower end PCs. Mods have changed cities into being part of the open world, and Fallout 4 has MANY, multi story, building interiors, one can go into that are part of the open world.

>The processing speed of the game engine is tied to framerate
This isn't an engine limitation, but a design choice. The player's movement speed, FPS, physics, and script speed, are tied to the FPS, and the FPS is locked at 60, to prevent issues seen in other games where the scripting get de-synced from the game, causing issues like NPCs just stopping in their tracks and never moving,requiring a restart.

whoever wrote this article obviously haven't played Fallout 4 or Skyrim.

>This isn't an engine limitation, but a design choice
It's not a design choice but not a limitation either, it's them being stupid.

why are they "being stupid"? that post just explained their reasoning and it seems understandable enough

>It's not a design choice
It was a design choice in Skyrim and Fo4. It was reatrded to leave it in F76, because it was multiplayer, and that would obviously give people with better framerates an even bigger edge. But that doesn't make it not a deliberate design choice for Skyrim and Fo4 where it originated from.

what are some other games out there where every building can be entered, almost every object can be interacted with, and every npc has a schedule, inventory, and attributes/disposition but the cities are actually really big and populated

the fps isn't locked at 60 and you have to use an external fps limiter because their vsync induces mouse lag
also, what other fucking games have this issue? I haven't seen it outside of ps2/3 era console ports

who is actually going to buy anything RPG related from bethesda after 76?

Well on that of gamebryo... they kept dumbing down their games to fit in consoles. Remember who they broke the Strip in separate cells in New Vegas because consoles couldn't deal with it?

Any unity game that forgets about Time.deltatime

No.
Muh Engine is used by retards who think it sounds smart.They don't actually know what a game engine actually does.
Like people claiming something is an existential threat. Sounds good but they have no idea what it means.

>isn't an engine limitation, but a design choice
It's literally an engine limitation, it doesn't matter if it was a design choice or not it's still a limitation of the engine.
And I doubt it's a design choice, but just something they just did, in the engine development I've done learning graphics programming/engine design, tying framerate together with everything else is extremely easy and the simplest way to limit framerate. With this method the speed of the game is dependant on framerate, increasing/decreasing it increases/decreases the game speed, that is why people were able to speed hack by changing the framerate when fallout 76 was launched.

>This is also wrong. Interiors are in cells because the insides tend to be bigger then the outside, and for basic optimization purposes for consoles and lower end PCs.
You can design level streaming in a way to hide interiors as to not have it load when you aren't going to be seeing it. And fallout 76 runs like shit, probably because of the engines limitations when it comes to this.

If there was no issue with the game engine why the fuck would they have to do workarounds for basic things like trains such as having them be NPC hats. Their engine is absolute trash and they just bandaid things to "fix" them.

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>If there was no issue with the game engine why the fuck would they have to do workarounds for basic things like trains such as having them be NPC hats

I love the Broken Steel train, it's a great litmus test for people who have no idea what they're talking about.

ign.com/articles/2015/07/22/fallout-3-broken-steel-train-is-actually-just-a-giant-npc-hat
lol, right

>game journalists suddenly know what they're talking about when it confirms my bias

Here's commentary from the guy that actually discovered it, retard.

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absolutely BTFO it's not a train hat retards it's a train miscellaneous equipment

>it's just an NPC running fast with a hat!
>No, it's a 3D model with a camera animation
>N-no see I was right I win!

I'm glad enginelets will never reproduce.

Quake engine is still used and it's also ancient

Don't forget Nuka World has a train that moves.

They need a new everything.

>there's nothing wrong with bethesda's engine

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To keep bringing up the train factoid, when the train in question wasn't going to be a fully realized thing even if they took the time to implement trains and that's only good as an example of "smoke and mirrors", since FO4 had VTOL taxis for BoS, power armor as a vehicle, and atleast one elevator that would take you from the top of the supermutant skyscraper, down to the ground while also keeping you outside of the building is retarded.

Anyone who bitches about gamebryo has no idea what they're talking about

>>No, it's a 3D model with a camera animation
So an NPC with a trainhat...

And an actual train. And a rollercoaster.
youtube.com/watch?v=JjzaMd82m-4

That's the part of my post that you retardedly targeted, I had other things as well.Bethesda are lazy and need to get off their asses, and make a new engine properly.

That's not what pathfinding is you retard.

You can update engines, but after a certain point they accumulate so much bloat that it becomes very hard to change the system without rewriting things from scratch.

You have to understand also is that they may not have the talent to create an engine that's any good, which will mean they wasted years and millions on a dead end.

Oh, good that's even more damning

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>make NPC run along a path
>that's not pathfinding

No, they don't. Their games run really well, when you compare it to the Unity shit that performs so horribly most of the time.

Just gonna avoid the whole thing about Skyrim's physics being so wonky they couldn't even get simple Carriages to work cleanly and had to scrap it outside of the meticulously scripted intro ride?

He's right though, that's not pathfinding.
Like, at least google the word and look at what it means.

yes it's fucking ancient, and Bethesda isn't creative enough to counteract with actual good substance

either the engine gets upgraded sooon or the company goes to the bin

What you just described is engine limitations not game design. In order to change things to be more like the Witcher they would need to change the engine.

What am I missing?

I don't disagree with everthing you say, or even your intent of being critical, but strengthening any later arguments you might have by forcing you to eliminate the weak criticism in it seems like a good idea to me.

Making them run along one specific path is the literal opposite of pathfinding.

Do you completely lack any reading comprehension? There is no npc, it's equipment that goes on the player so their first person view looks like the inside of a train

It was scrapped because of navmeshing issues and AI going nuts around enemies.

If this is all the evidence you have for it being bad then no, nothing's wrong with it. Pretty much all devs use some sort of trickery like this to get around having to create new assets and/or mechanics. Moreso when its a small DLC.

People that post the trainhat meme without understanding it are legitimate mouthbreathing retards.

Is this a joke? EVERYONE knew that Bethesda games were glitchy and janky, even way back as far as Oblivion. They were infamous for their jankiness. Bethesda is probably one of the laziest devs ever at polishing games, even though they're a huge company. Do you see companies like Rockstar and CDProjekt releasing games like Bethesda does? My answer is the following: The Elder Scrolls is a very strong IP and Bethesda is a very rich developer. Make the game not look like shit or fuck off.

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No, Bethesda needs better engineers, who knows how write engines and renders, they have connections with Avalanche, and they fucking own ID,they have zero excuses to not to use their resources, they are simple lazy.

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You don't know what pathfinding is in terms of gamedev do you.

If I'm telling an NPC to go along a path, that path is a series of points. It's going to try to find the route there.
In other words, it's pathfinding.

Was this NPC train that exists in your head just put on like, an invisible conveyor belt or something?

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I hate to break it to you but in terms of AI whether you're setting it to go along a specific path or telling it to reach a point, it's going to use the same pathfinding system.

But they have used Id. They openly talk about that.

I wouldn't put the blame purely on the engine, rather I would blame Bethesda for laziness. They ignore any fan feedback on the quality of their games at release and each new game comes out with the same issues the last game had. They got used to the idea that modders will fix it. Consumers didn't make it better either by making Reddit memes about epic funny Skyrim bugs haha so funny. Thats our Todd! It gave them the green light to get lazier and more stagnant. Gamers became uneasy at around Fallout4 though and that unease turned into anger with what a mess 76 was. Actually, its still a mess, just to a slightly lesser degree. I loved it though, because the Toddler went on stage and mocked people who pointed out how buggy their games are. 76 was a good slap in the face and hopefully a reality check.

The real travesty is the shit combat. That's what you're going to be doing 75% of the time, and KCD made by a indie studio put it to shame.

>train as NPC head
this will never not be funny

More like "make this stupid engine work with more players", not, improve the memory management, the asset system, remove the archaic features, improve the render/internal loop to instantiate thousands of intractable objects on the screen without crashing.

They literally did all of that and openly talk about it. Stop huffing the Yea Forums memes. You're turning into a brainless zombie.

Can't get hype for TESVI.
Not just because it will likely be dumbed down even more, but I believe paid mods will be back with a vengeance and new composer because of this metoo bullshit

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Prove it faggot.

Watch their documentary. They talk about the help Id gave them, how they got rid of the atlas rendering system and other shit.

How many quests are in Whiterun?

who cares about jeremy souleless.
>oh no, we won't have the umpteenth remix of the one song
big whoop.

legit only care about mods and waifuing because I know the game is going to be an absolute shitfest judging by 4, 76 and Blades.

>run game at 200 fps
>step over skeleton
>it flies apart like a bouncing betty and kills you

I watched, and they still need to use archaic method of separating large cells in different worlds rather than dynamically allocation them in memory, they still have loading screens, and the combat still shit.

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>Walk through downtown Boston
>15 fps
>Jump onto rusted out car
>Car's physics kick in
>Kills me on the spot

You watched jack shit.

>The real travesty is the shit combat

This, lock the camera into 3rd person when ever a melee weapon is unsheathed, and work on the melee animations, Skyrim not having spears would have been forgivable if they had at least done that.

Fuck off Pete, go play something that rewards your ADHD brain.

Has your brain completely rotted through.

>If there was no issue with the game engine why the fuck would they have to do workarounds for basic things like trains such as having them be NPC hats.
Because only a retard spends all the time developing a working vehicle system for something that is only going to be used in one cutscene.

Thats a massive waste of dev time and resources

There might be some wrong things with it, but the one in your pic is clearly not one, even my favorite game, F.E.A.R, used smoke and mirrors to hide technical stuff from the player while making the game easier to run.
Honestly the npc with train head is getting to be a retarded point to argue about, imagine being the manager for this game, one of your guys come up to you and say "sir, if we just mesh this train over a human npc head, we can make this thing work without the player ever finding out, it will saves us time and money".
What would be your answer? "Nah son, lets waste more time than we need on this bullshit, even trough only 1% of the playerbase will ever find out, and they will only find it by abusing tools to search the game data".
Surprisingly as it is, developers dont have infinite time and money to just make the perfect game.

>What am I missing?
Everything.

They don't have to change JACK SHIT about the engine, the have to change the way they build their gameworlds.

The train hat shit isn't that unommon.

In games like Gear of War, when you are riding on the back of a giant monster or w/e, the monster itself isn't moving, its just stomping its feet up and down and the background is moving instead like an old timey film.

They do it because its easier, and causes less problems, then actually trying to build the entire length of the trip, and possibly have the thing get stuck on something along the way

Do you mean they're shuffling the map around instead of the player?

The train was a hat, actually. It was intended for the /player/ to "wear" so that they would get a view of inside the the train.

If it works, then its completely acceptable, the idea that it's embarrassing is only held by people who have no idea about game design.

Keep crying faggot. Nobody gives a fuck about your fucking opinion.

>the idea that it's embarrassing is only held by people who have no idea about game design.

So most of Yea Forums

Unfortunately true these days.

No

The map itself is usually just a single square box. and the creature or w/e you are riding on stands in the middle, stopping its feet up and down. The map doesn't move at all, nor does the creature.

They simulate the illusion of terrain movement by basically putting all of the terrain as an image, and then putting this image on a giant repeating conveyor belt that is projected on the sides, top, and bottom, of the square box map.

This is typically true of train levels as well. Hence you often notice that, if you fall off the train, or you body falls under the train, the train doesn't keep passing over your body. Your body stays in the same relative place compared to whatever train car it feel out of because the train isn't moving, nor is the map. The background is moving on a giant projector.

Yes. Almost any game where you're on an infinitely moving vehicle, like say, a train level in an FPS or something, its the world that moves under you. They then take the furthest back "chunk" unload it and then stick it at the front to wizz past you again like a Hanna Barberra cartoon.

Both of these are common tricks devs use to do to the same thing, it just depends on how they want to do it.

>just copy & paste bro
Fuck off

Appreciate the info

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Bethesda is dead, they don't care anymore. They are just husks trying to take every penny from their players. They don't need to make a new engine because no matter what people will keep buying their games, fallout 76 shows that.

>CTD constantly
>check the logs cause holy fuck this is infuriating
>instead of some mod its something bethesda related

You are retarded if you think the logs can show anything. Logs don't, and can't, record what happens during a crash. They can show you things running in the moments before a crash, but they can't show you want script caused the crash.

how do I figure what causes crashes then?

suck my dick faggot

Look at what you were doing right before you crashed, look at any mods you might have installed that might interact with anything in that situation, work back from there.

youtube.com/watch?v=TjUVv7sYZWM

I genuinely forget the game has a combat system.

Two questions :

1) If you start a new game without any mods, does it crash?
2) How long can you play before the crash happens?
3) What video card are you using?

I can't count. Answer the questions anyway.

>If you start a new game without any mods, does it crash?

its not a consistant crash, its like a locational thing (I think). but then it doesn't crash or sometimes does. It could also be a weather mod. but it looks like an npc thing. I might try starting a new save and then teleport to that location and see if that changes anything.

>How long can you play before the crash happens?
Then I'll try saving at different time frames and reload the saves, just for the game to crash a few seconds later

>What video card are you using?

geforce gtx 3gb 1060

It's embarrassing because the game can't handle vehicles at all. Something that should've been somewhat of a non-issue needing a 'fix' like this is just pitiful.

>the idea that it's embarrassing is only held by people who have no idea about game design.

>can't program an object to follow a path
>have to load extra shit and then parent it

its embarrassing.

Didn't they already confirm that they are using something new for ES6? By that I mean Unreal or whatever the other major one was called. Not Gamebryo or it's derivatives.

Why do people keep bringing this up? It's literally not even what they used in-game for that section, what it actually is, in the final product, is a small cell and the world moves around you to give the illusion of you travelling. This is also how they handled all elevators.

The thing is, so many games do this exact thing, generally just for their elevators, but still, this is common shit, hell even Frictional Games, the company that made their own physics engine for their games, used this implementation for their elevators (having a small cell and the world moves around you) instead of having real, moving elevators.

Why is a board for videogames full of so many people that know nothing about videogames?

They need a new team. Todd Howard is directing a company full of fucking morons.

/thread

>Didn't they already confirm that they are using something new for ES6?
Nope.

> By that I mean Unreal or whatever the other major one was called.
If they do use anything, I hope its ANYTHING other then Unreal. Unreal is literally "baby's first game engine"

Shitting on Bethesda is just a meme

>whatabout-ism
>i-it's just a game you sad fucks
C-C-C-C-Combo breaker

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What I find funny is how people don't realize that the developer workaround for various issues are super, super commonplace. I remember hearing that World of Warcraft has like a million invisible rabbits they use for various functions in-game, and at least one mod author uses an invisible cat for a radio system.

>I remember hearing that World of Warcraft has like a million invisible rabbits they use for various functions in-game

Why would you do this?

Don't /thread this shit either this retard doesn't know what he's talking about.

>In games like GTA, or Witcher 3, every NPC is rendered as a single object
No, they have just as many sections on each NPC as a Beth game.

>In a Bethesda game, every NPC is rendered as multiple objects because you can take off every piece of armor, clothing, weaponry, jewelry, etc. etc. ,creating a situation where each NPC takes up much more processing power as a result
No, the NPC is split up in to multiple parts and when they're wearing clothes the clothes essentially replace that part, the only extra bits are due to Beth's incompetence with their optimization

>In a Bethesda game, when you enter a city like Whiterun, there are well over 100 different NPC scripts running
Shut the fuck up you know nothing about their AI package system it's not 40,000,000 individual scripts assigned to each NPC.

>In a Bethesda game, every fork, spoon, knife, and cheese well not only can be moved, but has havok physics enabled on it, and every object that gets moved gets saved into the memeory so it can stay moved until the cell resets in 10-30days
This is the only genuine point you made, and it's exactly why Beth's engine is quite decent in its implementation, you'll have a hard time finding other games that handle dynamically creating and deleting objects as well as theirs does.

Not him, but its actually much easier programming wise to have an entity loaded on the map in some manner before its needed then to try to load it into the game world right as you need it.

Like, in Fallout 76, the nuke explosion effect, and the resulting mushroom cloud, are actually active in the game at all times, they just keep it off the map, and the game just teleports the effect to the nuke drop site, in order to improve response times for it.

okay but why would you program a rabbit that turns on and off for the nuke button, when you could program some switch or something?

Thats not loading rabbits, then teleporting them when they spawn back in?

>Shut the fuck up you know nothing about their AI package system it's not 40,000,000 individual scripts assigned to each NPC.
It literally is. Every single named NPC in a town like whiterun has their own personal script that details their normal day to day movements.

Because applying things to NPCs is easier in many cases.

this has been debunked a million times already
fuck off

personal day things though would just reference other scripts that they would all reference wouldn't it?

No, it really isn't like that. The idea that it's some horribly inefficient scripting is wrong because, with the way the AI Package scripts work, they're no more demanding than an NPC in GTA constantly checking if they're about to be hit by a car, or if they're about to walk in to a wall, or if they're being shot at, etc. etc. I don't have access to GTAV's NPC scripts like I do with any Beth game, but I wager they have a lot more they're checking at any given time, it's just Rockstar's better at optimizing their scripting than Bethesda.

>No, the NPC is split up in to multiple parts and when they're wearing clothes the clothes essentially replace that part
You seem to forget that items in Bethesda games are layered, and as such you can have multiple visible items on each part.

Like in Fallout 4 you can have
>Your vault suit
>6 armor pieces
>glasses
>a bandana
>your ring
>a weapon
>several weapon mods
All of which are loaded, rendered, and visible, at the same time.

whereas in something like GTA or W3 you have
>a weapon
>their body, where their clothes, head, and other objects are fused into one object

who are you quoting

WoW, used bunny rabbits as a shortcut for adding locations to a script(I think, its been awhile since I read that article), what that person is describing is loading a model onto the map as soon as the map itself is loaded and keeping it loaded at all times so you don't have to worry about render times fucking with immersion.

t.interjecting into the reply chain.

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No?

Each of these named NPCs has their own assigned bed, their own assigned store stall, their own assigned times to go to the bar, or go to the cloud district.

There isn't just one shared
>go to sleep
script they all reference, as everyone would then be piling not the same bed or w/e

>“A lot of stuff behind the scenes that you wouldn’t expect to be a spell in WoW runs using the spell system,” he said. “Spells need casters, so we often have to rely on spawning in an invisible creature to be the one to actually ‘cast’ the spell. Other things that creatures are good at doing would be hard to implement any other way, so we use an invisible creature instead.”

Couldn't tagging certain locations and NPCs alleviate that problem and still allow you to use one script(or set of scripts)?

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>script they all reference, as everyone would then be piling not the same bed or w/e

Wouldn't they reference a "go to sleep script" and then have their own variable for the location they go to?

They wouldn't remake the same go to sleep script with a different variable would they?

Its not really a sleep script.

Its a daily routine script that has their entire daily scheduled on it and when they go to sleep it tells what bed to go to sleep on and they play the sleep animation once they reach that part of their scrip, and stay there until their script tells them they need to get up for work or w/e.

You don't know how the AI packages work though, they just query if they should be doing the next line of the script or not every so often and there's really not that many lines to each package. A lot of packages are shared, so when you start combat for example, most NPCs will be picking the same package and carrying out the same behavior. Some NPCs do certainly have their own specific packages for everything, but that's few and far between, the majority all take one package.

>There isn't just one shared >go to sleep script they all reference
Uhhh actually for most of them there is.

There's seriously way less complexity in their scripting than in GTAV. TW3, yea sure there's like barely any scripting on most NPCs they, for the most part, just stand there during their day/follow a set path, or run away during combat.

if they die i there's a chance either the elder scrolls or fallout will cease production
i'm not willing to take that chance
i can still hope a future title is good

Oh no, I get workarounds but the hat is still embarrassing because it's something that shouldn't NEED a workaround with a competent dev and engine. I understand Obsidian made NV but my point still stands.

See

>but the hat is still embarrassing because it's something that shouldn't NEED a workaround
Why should it not need a workaround?

Why would ANY sane developer go through the trouble of making an actual vehicle system when they have no intention of having working vehicles outside of one cutscene?

No intelligent person sits down and goes
>Yeah man, lets go through the trouble of making this fully functional vehicle system and then not use it outside of one cutscene!
What you are suggesting is that the devs be pants on head retarded wasteful when making games for no reason beyond not using work arounds.

>he doesn't spawn in assets and create fo-scripts off of their behavior patterns because you can't actually access the internal engine under all the spaghetti code
>"Hey josh how do I get the door open to the office?"
>"just push the soda machine over 2 inches and then turn the lights on and off 5 times"
>"Thanks josh"

An open world game like that should be able to support vehicles for immersive purposes. The fact it doesn't is just incompetence and laziness on Bethesda's end.

Why would an open world game with one vehicle (helicopter) need to support a tram that's used once?

>An open world game like that should be able to support vehicles for immersive purposes.
Uhh no, especially in Fallout where the terrain is so fucked that it makes no sense that a vesicle would be able to get around anywhere.

bethesda still has fanboys i see

I vaguely recall an interview where someone brought up vehicles and they were debating doing it, but they felt that if they didn't make the map large enough then you'd cross it too quickly, and if they did make it big enough it'd be too empty.

But I might be mis-remembering, it's been a LONG time.

>specially in Fallout where the terrain is so fucked that it makes no sense that a vesicle would be able to get around anywhere.
yeah all that wide-open desert would be a nightmare to drive through

Did you know, the PC release of Fable TLC has the same landscape texture resolution as Skyrim's HD texture pack? (2048x2048)
Fable TLC came out in fucking 2005 and was a Xbox game first.

Answer the question mentally-ill phone poster

>make the game empty and force people to fast travel
>yeah but at least its not slightly more empty and can be travelled around with vehicles

You know I never thought about it, but I just realised fallout is missing a lot of in game travel mechanics. Theres no caravan system or horses.

>yeah all that wide-open desert
Which was only a thing in Fallout 1/2.

3, NV, and 4 all take place in and immediately around metropolitan areas where the roads are choked with the debris of cars from the war, along with collapsed building rubble.

Pretty much. The map isn't large enough for it, and they don't want to make a big empty map just for cars.

Hurrrrr. What about ladders then? They conveniently don't exist in post-apocalyptic NA?
Always found it hilarious how the one ladder you see in New Vegas goes through a loading screen to go up but doesn't require one when you jump down.

Laziness just like no spears in Skyrim

the question has already been answered, it's simply a matter of laziness on bethesda's part to not have a working vehicle system in fallout 3 especially when they already had horses in oblivion

Canonally speaking, all horses, mules, and donkeys went extinct in the years immediately following the lore. This is something that go back all the way to Fallout 1/2, and even Bethesda and Obsidian have said its still true when making Fallout 3, Nv, 4, 76, etc. etc. They purposefully killed off all rideable animals.

Brahmin are slow as fuck, and its been stated that both they, and bighorners, don't like people trying to ride them.

True, but this is why vehicles would clearly take their place.

>Implying horses work even remotely the same as cars
Are you retarded?

That's just designing after the fact. Bethesda thought: 'We can't program cars, that's too hard. Let's just throw a hole bunch of junk on the roads or break them to give the illusion that you can't.'

Kakariko village in oot is larger than the cities in skyrim.

Spears sound like a balancing issue desu.

>another muh engine thread
it doesnt fucking matter, the devs are incompetent

Even in the NCR, its stated only one out of every 200 or so people has a working vehicle, and most of them are just old tractors and shit.

There are EXTREMELY few working cars, or cars in good enough condition to fix, even by the time of Fallout 1/2.

Fuck off
Don't touch muh comfy Whiterun

Serious question.

is bethesda going to make elder scrolls 6 online only and will they actually allow people to mod it?
Are they going to make it heavilly focussed on multiplayer?

>That's just designing after the fact.
No, that just desinging for common sense
>its been 200 years after a nuclear war destroyed most major urban centers
>buildings have been left to decay with no human maintenance
>there would logically be shit everywhere
>Cars would choke the roads as the EMPs from the bombs disabled them

Not when they claim the engine can't handle them

We do not know yet. If I had guess, and this is ONLY a guess, it'll be a traditional style Single player game.

>is bethesda going to make elder scrolls 6 online only
No, they have said Starfield, TES 6, and future Fallout games, will be single player.

Except that was never claimed. Todd just said they ran out of development time.

>its stated only one out of every 200 or so people has a working vehicle

so lets say about a third of america's population doesn't own a car before the war. then divide that by 200. That would still leave 1 million cars.

Bethesda never once claimed the engine can't do spears. That was just shit Yea Forums made up.

Even from the beginning, Bethesda said they just wanted to focus on other weapons besides spears.

>Bethesda said they just wanted to focus on other weapons besides spears.
>focus more on weapons
>still feel, sound, and balance like shit

How is this even a question?
Updated or not, its still a 20 year old engine

You can only tune your PC so much before having to change the motherboard

you can literally swap the model of a horse in skyrim with a model of a car and you have a working car

>so lets say about a third of america's population doesn't own a car before the war. then divide that by 200. That would still leave 1 million cars.
99% of which have decayed so much in the last 200 years that they are inoperable and unable to be repaired.

The fact that the NCR, the largest and most powerful post-war nation, founded in the state that had the most people in it pre-war, only has working vehicles of any kind for 1 in 200 people, just goes to show how rare working cars would be elsewhere.

Except car physics don't work even remotely the same as horse ones.

Are you literally retarded?

>is bethesda going to make elder scrolls 6 online only
Todd says no. He says TES is primarily an offline single player game.
>and will they actually allow people to mod it?
Probably. Bethesda is run by a bunch of old DnD nerds. They consider people being able to "make their own stories" with mod tools to be critically important. I think it was Pete Hines who just flat out said the mod tools literally saved the company from bankruptcy and the franchise would die without them.
>Are they going to make it heavilly focussed on multiplayer?
Again, Todd says no.

>Bethesda said they just wanted to focus on other weapons besides spears
Gee those two swinging animations that everything uses most have taken years to make.

That sounds like a lore excuse for crunch desu.
It also doesn't seem to reflect anything outside of vegas. You would expect a lot more attempts at transportation, you'd also expect couriers to be running all over the place.

Nothing that Todd or Pete says can be trusted.

>He says TES is primarily an offline single player game.

but TES Online?

>and the franchise would die without them.
He never said this, in fact, Todd has said that hardcore modders only make up around 12-15% of the playerbase, data which is cooperated by sales stats on steamspy, and download counts on the nexus.

Around 70-80% of people who buy Bethesda games on PC never download a single mod, and only about 10-12% of the userbase actively mods hardcore.

>Geez Cleetus, think we should clear up these roads to allow for easier travel and trade with other settlements?
>Naw, that sounds stupid. Let's just keep drinking out of toilets.

>but one game
Yes what about it?

>>primarily
Do you know what this word means?

Honestly I rather not have cars, it would be like playing far cry, but if I wanted to play far cry with its atrocious driving mechanics, I would play far cry, and not fallout.
And just like in far cry, its going to either make the map have fuckloads of empty areas where nothing happens, or have so many bullshit encounters that you will be better on foot anyway.

clearly it's not even a question.
fuck todd.

and fallout 76 soon after.
Then all the other multiplayer games that bethesda has been pushing.

>It also doesn't seem to reflect anything outside of Vegas
Its literally how both the Capital Wasteland and Commonwealth are. Same thing with the Pitt, Point Lookout, Far Harbor, etc. etc.

>You would expect a lot more attempts at transportation, you'd also expect couriers to be running all over the place.
The NCR has working trains, and we know from DLC like Point Lookout and Far Harbor that people have gotten boats running, and have regular trade routes up and down the East Coast from Far Harbor in Maine down as far as the Broken Banks in North Carolina.

theres also a sizeable caravan network across the various post-war areas of America, but that's all on foot via Brahmin caravans

His TES games. He doesn't care about Zenimax's crap. He flat out said TESO is a separate universe with a separate canon.

The difference is that engine was good when it was new.

>implying one needs to clear the roads to run brahmin caravans

>but other series
>but other studios
What are you trying to say

If someone takes a game in a completely different direction than their primary design, with their latest installment. I wouldn't consider the primary focus to be the same.

imo.

Like there are more old fashioned RPG eldar scroll games in existance, but would you really consider that to reflect the current state of Eldar scrolls?

>and fallout 76 soon after
Isn't a TES game
>Then all the other multiplayer games that bethesda has been pushing.
Aren't made by Bethesda and also are not TES games
Do you have even basic, grade school level reading comprehension?

Then why not make their own vehicles? There have robots going around all fine and dandy and the people have the tools and know-how to repair said robots. Why not just make rudimentary ones from scratch?

>He flat out said TESO is a separate universe with a separate canon.
He never said this, he said TESO wont have any affect on what Bethesda is doing.

And it wont, because its set so far into the past it doesn't matter.

>it's not an NPC with a train hat
>it's YOU wearing a train hat
how is this supposed to be better?

>Bethesda is run by a bunch of old DnD nerds.

I'm not sure about this because, you know:

>no classes
>no permanent birthsigns
>no spears
>no mysticism
>no acrobatics
>no atheletics
>we want the EA normie audience

>and we know from DLC like Point Lookout and Far Harbor that people have gotten boats running

So working engines exist, but they can't into cars?
Like they can maintain boats but not cars?

Elder Scrolls not only needs a new Engine it also needs new Developers

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>>need to implement train as npc head
This has nothing to do with the game engine.
If only you knew all the shortcuts your favorite game takes.

>What are you trying to say
Publishers usually have the final say.
If the publishers have been pushing multiplayer and paid mods, I would assume no matter what, no sense of integrity will prevent the next TES from following suite.

It honestly baffles me how a game engine with the biggest mod support, which the devs are extremely aware of, has no form of debugging for mods.
The api is barely functional, has a hard number limit on the amount of mods it can load, and worst of all has no error or event logging whatsoever, so when these games crash the game just closes without any prompt or log.

>oblivion had mounts
>fallout 3 doesn't have mounts
aren't they on the same engine? why was bethesda so fucking lazy to not just put in a car

it needs a new fucking design philosphy in general.
They have all these conflicting ideas and slap it together to try and appease people that don't like what the game is piggy backing off of.

>Then why not make their own vehicles?
Most post-war people don't even know how to read, let alone make vehicles.
>There have robots going around all fine and dandy
Most of which are fucking hostile.
> and the people have the tools and know-how to repair said robots.
Those people are generally considered specialists.
>Why not just make rudimentary ones from scratch?
There was this big thing in Fallout lore called the resource wars, where all the major valuable materials, including oil, were consumed by the various pre-war nations. Oil is used for much more then gasoline, but also in the manufacture of things like plastics, and other composite materials.

There simply isn't enough of most major resources to make a new car with, or at least have making a new car worth it.

>fallout
>cars

>narrow pathways with terrible level design even outside
>terrible AI pathfinding

Sounds like a good idea

why is fallout 2 allowed to have a functional highwayman but not any new fallouts?

>has no form of debugging for mods.

If they put that in, then they would be forced to fix their bugs. Why have a debug tool that shows your mistakes to your customers?

>'m not sure about this because, you know:
Nothing you said has jack shit to do with D&D

D&D was about the adventure, and creating your own epic stories. The classes and shit were just a means to facilitate gameplay.

Even fucking Josh Sawyer of Obsidian said STATS SHOULD NOT DEFINE AN RPG, and pointed to Bethesda specifically for taking RPGs in an ew direction, and even called out classical RPG purists for hating that sort of thing.

>take car
>allow back wheels to turn the vehicle
>implement slow pivoting and strafing when not moving foward or baclwards
>replace car model with horse model
>revise and create animations as needed

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the should just run unreal 4 engine so that games don't look and perform like shit anymore.

Okay fair, atleast give me error logging so i can fucking see what mods crashing then.

cause I said so.

This is literally not how cars interact with the environment, holy hell you ARE retarded.

have you ever driven a car before?

>allow back wheels to turn the vehicle
>pivoting and strafing
have you ever seen a car in your life

>unreal engine
>not look like shit
M8, Unreal is one of the ugliest engines out there. Everything looks like it was made on the scale of concrete blocks, and all the textures look like cheap plastic.

Some cars do have rear wheel steering but they still use the front as well

do you really trust that these fucking hacks and sellouts know what they're doing?

the only thing a car needs to do is increase your movement speed there is literally no reason why it can't pivot and strafe just like your character can

Keep in mind that most settlements are also worried about super mutants and raiders, so the roadblocks can actually be useful in a way. Bigger settlements also mean better targets, and more likely to draw unwanted attention. Unless you have an incredibly well-fortified wall, an army of securitrons, or some other means of affording protection it's generally not good to stand out.

Also if your settlement grows TOO much, you start to face a lot of pressure from internal conflicts, managing resources (Food, water, etc), housing and managing sprawl, etc.

I'm not saying your idea has no merit, just that there are reasons that could be used to argue against simply clearing the roads.

I still think that would show too much under the hood. I don't even think they can get to the source anymore.

I didn't say Todd said the franchise relies on mods, I said I think it was Pete Hines who said it. I can't find the quote now because it's from fucking years ago but someone from Bethesda definitely said the company probably wouldn't be around today if Morrowind hadn't had mod tools and Skyrim owes it's extensive success to the continuation of that same policy. Do you have a source for you figures? Because when I tried to verify them I couldn't find anything to support them.

Just use Unreal Engine lol

>Makes a retarded argument
>gets point out its retarded
>EVERYONE IS JUST HACKS AND SELLOUTS!
Like, m8, Obsidian are generally considered one of the greatest RPG companies out there, and many of their staff worked on games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, and other games that literally defined the RPG genre for decades.

please try strafing in a car irl, I'd love to see it.

what i would like to know is how do they actually QA their games?
Like i know they do a shit job but they still have to do something, is this why their games are so buggy. They just dont have any debugging tools at all?

not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls

>parent view to object car
>have 4 points on the car and check how far below it is until it touches the ground
>angle the car at a predetermined rate to simulate gravity
>some basic bitch acceleration
>check for objects infront of car
>on impact check acceleration
>raise back angle by degrees based on the angle

I know I'm simplifying it, but it really doesn't sound too hard

custom maps where they take stuff apart and guess and check whats causing the error.

Honestly the fact they don't have a debug tool really does explain a lot. Someone should ask bethesda this.

Tell me. What great games of note have they made recently then? Even better, are any of the people who worked on those classic games even with the company anymore?
It's like saying Bioware is great because they made Baldur's Gate.

Yes.

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>driving car in fallout 5
>run over a small pebble
>car flies 1000 feet into the air and flies out of bounds
not happening

It's just the nature of the games they make that they are incredibly difficult to thoroughly bug check. I don't want to defend them too much because there's a lot of shit that is obvious and critical and never should have got through but I'm not going to berate them because every fringe case isn't fixed. Honestly, as someone who plays The Sims, Bethesda aren't as bad at bug checking sandboxes as some other people.

Like when their games crash how the fuck do they have any idea what the cause is?
Sure there has to be like segfaults and shit in their code but theres alot of lines and libraries that may not be causing issues until its happening ingame.
Do they just sift through pages upon pages of code trying to find comments relevant to whats crashing? I guess not since they dont even know whats crashing SINCE THERES NO ERROR LOGS.

Are you sure about that? Any bethesda game on PC has huge crashing issues for the first MONTH the game comes out, even more is bugs that are still broken in all of their games that they straight up left for the community to fix.

this is why they don't use their retarded physics engine. Would be way better with a fake system that ignores all of this.

> Do you have a source for you figures?
combination of data from Steamspy and Nexus

-Steamspy shows between 5-10 million people own Fallout 4 on Steam
-The most uniquely downloaded mod on Nexus is AWKCR, which has 1.58 mil unique downloads
-This means that between 15- 31% of Fallout 4 players downloaded the singularly most uniquely downloaded mod on the nexus.
-Even by the end of page 1 of the most downloaded mods on the nexus, you enter the 500-600,000 range of unique downloads, bringing the % down to 5--12%. Similar figures can be seen from Fallout NV and Skyrim as well.

In general, there's a handful of mods that 20-30% of the playerbase might download, but even among the most downloaded mods, you quickly drop down to 15% or less

The number of people who hardcore downloaded like 50+ mods is usually in the single digit % ranges, and this is on PC. On consoles the numbers tend to be lower.

>Do they just sift through pages upon pages of code trying to find comments relevant to whats crashing? I guess not since they dont even know whats crashing SINCE THERES NO ERROR LOGS.

maybe we're just over thinking this, and there is a debug tool, but bethesda didn't want to release it.

Possible but that would be just as dumb as not having one.
I bet they run a if it compiles and starts okay, ship it attitude.

Oh yeah, I agree on that part but I'm just tired of people coming up with lazy excuses for Bethesda's poor management of the IP. So many problems that shouldn't even exist if given to a competent developer.
They're the western equivalent to Game Freak.

Not him, but generally speaking, its publishers who control how much time and money is spent on bug fixing.

MMOs tend to release with several novels worth of bugs even after months of Alpha and Beta testing, and even years later, games like WoW still have LAUNCH ERA bugs left in them. However, unlike Bethesda games, MMOs get a constant influx of new people coming in and buying shit as updates keep coming over the years, which gives them a constant source of money to use for bug fixing.

But even then, the need to balance making new content to keep existing players in the game/drawing in new players, and fixing very large scale issues, means that smaller issues are literally just NOT worth the devs time to fix, which means they stay around years after the fact.

Bethesda doesn't just wake up one day and go "fuck in, the modders can fix the rest of the bugs", they keep making bug fixes until its no longer profitable for them to do so.

They put in way too much effort even if it's bad to be compared to gamefreak

I bet that gap is smaller when compared to skyrim since it has steam workshop integration.

That is all heavily flawed speculation but 30% of your userbase using at least one mod is a HUGE amount of people modding, relatively speaking. Absolutely a business man would look at that figure and think "Okay, this is something our customers use a lot and value." Even if it was just 10% that's a large enough percentage that you wouldn't ignore it. 10% is PC sales vs. console sales and devs still release their games to PC.

There are bugs in fallout 76 that originally occurred in fallout 4 that are still to this day broken in 76.

Modders had this fixed in a short period of time on 4, cant fix it on 76 since their business model.

Anyone who doesn't think Bethesda leaves some room on the table on their end due to mods in my opinion is incorrect, They even pushed for paid mods and mods on the PS4.

I think someone should seriously just ask them in an email or a tweet.

like "Hello bethesda, how do you guys check for bugs, do you guys use some sort of log that tells you what happened?"

So basically Mournhold from Morrowind. But then they would have to make more things to fill out the now bigger city, they ain't got time for that.

>ut 30% of your userbase using at least one mod is a HUGE amount of people modding,
That's 30% of PC players, which generally isn't Bethesda's primary market. Most Bethesda game sales are on consoles.

Even if we assume there is an equal split between PC, Xbox, and PS, the 30% of PC players who mod is only 11% of the total userbase.

>There are bugs in fallout 76 that originally occurred in fallout 4 that are still to this day broken in 76.
And it generally not worth their time to fix.

>Modders had this fixed in a short period of time on 4, cant fix it on 76 since their business model.
Even Arthmoor, the guy who makes the unofficial Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fo4, patches has said this line of thought is nonsense because modders have unlimited time, and no budget limitations, when it comes to fixing bugs. So OFC they can fix them while the devs can't.

>They even pushed for paid mods and mods on the PS4.
And those paid mods don't include the big bug fixing patches because of sony's restrictions on modding.

don't forget
>no levitate spell because they lazily wrote in a levitation act/ban in universe outside of morrowind so no vertical dungeons/secrets like the awesome ones in morrowind
>that cuck emil is still with bethesda

I dunno. Between how mechanically poor the games feel/run/look and how cavalier they are about having bugs literally everywhere I can't see Bethesda as a developer working hard.
As a publisher on the other hand...

bethesda.net/en/mods/fallout4/mod-detail/4080865

They removed levitation because they found it broke scripted events, and made designing dungeon traps impossible because you could just levitate over them.

>that cuck emil is still with bethesda
The guy who won an award for his writing in the Pitt DLC?

You realize that the Winterhold in Skyrim was after a disaster that caused the entire city around the college to plummet off the cliff, right? There's an explicit lore reason why it's so small and most of what is left outside of the college is abandoned.

And because of cities no longer being open.

This too.

The issue is that every NPC in the game is "someone". They all have some kind of identity and scripted routine. You can't just create a bunch of clones like in Assassin's Creed for instance. I can't imagine what would start happening if the area was more fun and they were running into each other and blocking each other's way. It's very taxing on the CPU as well. Dwarf Fortress barely has graphics but the AI routines will bring your computer to its knees when the settlement gets large enough

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imagine being this much of a bethesda bootlicker

>if the area was more fun
More full I mean, lol

Well fallout 4 looks nice and handles ok

Dwarf Fortress has scripts for thumbs, needing to eat, etc

The NPC's arent complex in bethesda. They have a limited set of actions they do every day, and they don't actually do the things unless player is in same cell interior. They cant starve to death or nothing. Bethesda suck as optimizing models and script, and they also need to target consoletards.

Without the incompetence and limitations of appealing to console users, TES could easily have 5x more complex NPCS and 5x larger cities, if they cared about their games.

It still takes time creating routines for a large amount of NPCs. Then you're also going to have more and more placeholder guys who don't really matter in any quests or anything, and just have filler dialogue if you talk to them. Though I don't know if that would bother people that much

>TES could easily have 5x more complex NPCS and 5x larger cities
And this would do nothing but cause the GTA affect where its a big city, with fuck all to do in it, where you spend more time driving between places to do things then you actually spend DOING things.

People did nothing but complain about both Vviec and the Imperial city because of their size being unnecessary.

>People did nothing but complain about both Vviec and the Imperial city because of their size being unnecessary.
Alright now thats just fucking pathetic

sept on release.
try downloading the game without any updates and play for a few minutes. fucking insane.

>I can't imagine what would start happening if the area was more fun and they were running into each other and blocking each other's way.
We don't have to imagine. Install Better Cities for Oblivion. Basically, the load increases exponentially. For example, going from 20 NPCs to 40 NPCs doesn't double the load on the processor, it quadruples it.

I love Skyrim send help.

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But now it runs fine its the point I'm trying to get to.

Fallout 4 has working trains, decent animations and better combat, as well as combat AI.

It is proof of concept that the Engine is fine.

>Only enter Whiteboirun to occasionally fuck followers in Febreezehome
>it's close to the exit and right next to a merchant
You know, despite everything, it's convenient. Besides, there's nothing worth doing in town other than trade and pick up quests anyway. Solitude is too big and having to go all the way to the home everytime got old real quick.
Same with Markarth and Nerd Central. As good as towns are, even with Oblivion, unless it's like Kingdom Come where there is actually some to fucking do at different places like pick fistfights or gamble at the tavern, it's just not worth it.

Although, given I have Buxom Wench Yuriana mod, the towns have become a bit more fun to explore, though only for the first time.

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if it takes this long and the entire mod community to fix it, I would say no its not fine desu.

its also outdated comparatively, and lacks features a lot of people and the developers need.

Are you playing F4 too? I heard it's a really good game, Skyrim with guns as some people says.
And of course F76 Skyrim with guns but online.
Same Engine = Same Game = Same Experience. This is why Bethesda games are so good.

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Not him, but I didn't need to mod community to fix Fallout 4.

I had few issues with the game, even at launch. I've actually modded Fallout 4 the least of any Bethesda game specifically because they added in a huge number of features people made mods for, or asked for, in both Fallout 3 and NV

>and they don't actually do the things unless player is in same cell interior
That's not true. They don't receive as much processor attention as NPCs in the same cell but they still do things when the player is not around. While high processing NPCs is fairly well understood nobody really knows much about low processing NPCs. It's just kind of a black box for us all. We don't know how it works too well but we know it's doing something.

Bethesda is a billion dollar company. I use Construction Set (It's the editor for TES) and I can churn out 2 NPC's with their own eventful schedule + a minor quest + their own house.
I dont understand what point you try to make. Vivec was based except it looked to samey.

dunno, I think more npcs improve it drastically.
Sound mods where you hear people talking far away, or that make the tavern sound lively are insanely cozy.

Actually if bethesda could change litteraly anything, it should be their sound design.

Their development process in general seems pretty flawed where the various teams don't get updated builds causing issues like in fallout 76 when new patches roll back fixes from past patches.

Funny thing is you can't do what Creation Engine does with any other engine.
It's like Valve using an Engine that isn't Source for a new game.

>I can churn out 2 NPC's with their own eventful schedule + a minor quest + their own house
How long does that take?

NPC's indoor does nothing, when player is outside. They practicly don't exist other than loads into outside if time is specificly at that schedule.

Hahaha, you dont actually think there are NPC's beating iron indoors, or eating when player is outside? Hahaha fucking brainlet

X-Ray Engine (STALKER) follows almost the same functions of Bethesda Creation Engine (Gamebryo).

>I dont understand what point you try to make. Vivec was based except it looked to samey.
People didn't like having to walk around the hwole thing to get quests and stuff.

Most people want to go in a town, sell off all their shit, and be easily able to round up all the quests they can, in a short time frame, so they can get back out into the game world doing shit faster.

8 real life hours. And I'm just intermediate skillwise. Bethesda makes rediculous errors on their 3d models which makes them bloated and wrongly alligned. They dont hire people based on merit, Todd hires his college dropout buddies to make 3d models.

Is this why the MonHun team were so proud of Snorah Magdaros?
Sure the fight is shit, but you're making the fact that the fight exists like it does kinda incredible

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Totally unrelated, but I thought Planescape Torment had amazing ambient sounds. Good background noise really does enhance a game massively

The train head solution is pretty smart I don't know why you retards criticise it. Are they supposed to develop an entire vehicle system framework and driving physics for 15 seconds of on screen footage? Please never run a company.

>loading screens to open a wardrobe because no occlusion culling
Do you even know what occlusion culling means? Literally how the fuck are these two related

Didn't bother reading the rest. Fucking moron.

>like in fallout 76 when new patches roll back fixes from past patches.
Not the guy you are responding too, but that's honestly something I've seen in every MMO I've played from TERA, to Guild Wars 2, to Star Trek Online

and the X-Ray engine is known for running like shit,crashing more often then a Bethesda game, and glitching out just as much.

What if I told you they're both problems

No, sorry, you are completely fucking wrong. How the fuck do you think NPCs travel from one town to another in Oblivion? Why is it when you enter a town all the NPCs aren't just in the same spot they were when you last left? Low processing NPCs are absolutely doing something. Why the fuck do you think low processing mode even exists? Just go watch an Oblivion or Skyrim speedrun. They rely extensively on the fact NPCs still do their shit even when the player isn't there.

No. They need a new lead designer who takes their game in a totally different direction.
NV comes so bittersweetly close. You're almost a story-strings-free free agent. They just shoehorn the 'you didn't die' thing in so badly and so forcibly and... ah, it's just so much wasted potential and bothersome extras that the player is never led to care about.

Make me just the new kid in town. Make the endings widely varied and almost separate depending on where my character ends up being significant. Don't keep telling me what I care about and why in the storyline and lore while in the game you give me free reign to give as few fucks as I please.
Friend, it looks like you've helped yourself plenty.

>Good background noise really does enhance a game massively

its one of the first things people do for polish. A lot of people go for music first, but sound effects are nearly half a game.

see thats the problem in itself, that theres nothing to do in the towns. There were a lot of quests to do inside of vivec

>Don't keep telling me what I care about and why in the storyline and lore
Good games should do EXACTLY this. This is the fundamental foundation of a good story. Its why even classic CRPgs like Fallout 1 and Baldur's Gate give you a set motive.

A game in which you are just a free agent doing whatever is a game with no actual plot, since there is no real starting point to get a narrative going.

>Same Engine = Same Game = Same Experience. This is why Bethesda games are so good.
>this is what Todd actually thinks
Jesus that is scary

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And most of those quests in Vivec led you out of vivec anyways, which made having to go through 6 loading screens to get into the sewers to get back to the NPC quest giver even MORE annoying.

>accept the fact Bethesda is a tier away from mobile phone gameplay,
They are well into mobile gameplay. Looks at TES Blades.

They just teleport retard

>Don't keep telling me what I care about and why in the storyline and lore while in the game you give me free reign to give as few fucks as I please.
Why don't you just play Minecraft?

Not him, but they literally don't idiot.

You haven't actually played any of these games have you?

Alright fellas, what are your quintessential mods, you know, the ones that aren't just bugfixes or utilities
I got like 3 that are absolutely necessary every playthrough
>Beasts of Tamriel
Because vanilla Skyrim got like 3 creatures in the wild and I like the variety
>Buxom Wench Yuriana
Because vanilla Skyrim gives like no incentive aside from a pittance in gold, and this has you collecting lewd posters in towns and collecting Wenches in caverns
>RS Children of The Sky
You know EXACTLY why I have this mod.

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Why don't you just admit you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about?

>Because vanilla Skyrim got like 3 creatures in the wild
It has more then Oblivion.

I have. If you think the engine is using up cpu time to calculate thousands of animations the player isn't seeing or even close to, either you or Bethesda are clinically retarded

idk man, you could always try ritalin

Nobody ever said it's playing animations the player can't see. If you think an NPC is only "doing something" when the animation plays then you don't understand software at all.

No one said shit about calculating animations retard. Keeping track of where they should be involves zero animations.

What's a good name for an Imperial woman?

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>spell effects
who gives a fuck about shit like "drain luck" not an argument
>diseases
who gives a fuck
>people in largest city
ah yes more mindless throwaway npcs perfect
>silver/magic/daedric to hit ghosts
who gives a fuck

Gudest Goyim

That's not what the original post was saying you esl nigger learn to read

The original post is wrong and that post is wrong. That person, probably you, is objectively a retard opining on something they literally don't know anything about.

No they dont. NPC don't have animation indoors when player is outdoor.

I dunno I always name every female character Elizabeth unless they're supposed to be unkempt.

>who gives a fuck about shit like "drain luck" not an argument
Just because something seems useless does not mean that it is and can add to the whole.

Remove all bacteria from your body and see what happens, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't add substance.

He said imperial, not Altmer

Altmer are the Juden, Imperials their pets.

Oh fair

>ah yes more mindless throwaway npcs perfect

my favorite mod are the population ones that add travelers and caravans to the roads and taverns.

>starts raining
>all the npcs run inside or put hoods on
>go inside the tavern and they're all dancing or sitting around the fire

peak comfy

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>NPC don't have animation indoors when player is outdoor.
Nobody ever claimed NPC play animations when in low processing mode. But the idea they aren't doing things when the player isn't around is utter crap. Let me give you an example, you walk into a house and an NPC is there, already sitting in a chair reading a book. How did it get to that state? You leave the house, wait an hour and then walk back in. The NPC is now working the spit. How did it get from the chair reading to the spit? The answer is low processing mode, something that is not well understood but known to exist.

Top goddamn kek

R A D I A N T
A I

I played the game like 10 times before I knew what "cloud district" is.

I thought he was some far away traveller talking about some redguard place. I didn't think it was just the basic bitch jarl hold that the player IMMEDIATELY goes to.

based and toddpilled

how can those lazy other devs hope to achieve the pure REALISM of a multi-district city such as Whiterun or Solitude, combined with the sheer life-like brilliance of individually-scripted NPCs?

I miss the days of awkward Oblivion talk.
Something nice about NPCs trying to communicate with each other the same way they communicate with you.

>Enter House
>Internal Loading [Check Time: Time 9.30]
>NPC Schedule 22:00 - 09:00 [SLEEP]
>9:30 - 9:59 [EATING]
>10:00 - 21:59 [Read Book]

It only checks NPC simplistic schedule when you enter house or when part of schedule is being outside house. You make it sound like bethesda npc's are hyper complex, computer straining programmed with an impressive life beyond players site.

They are not, they are very basic.

MMOs just a normal RPG game with multiplayer slapped onto it. not exactly a difficult or revolutionary thing.
by using an MMO engine they can just release it as a singleplayer game with co-op up to 4 players and make a killing. at this point ES6 could literally just be Skyrim 2 with 4 player multiplayer and it'd be GOTY

all of that is bullshit, retard. Fallout 2 had a fucking highwayman car you could drive around, powered by fusion batteries.

Except you haven't explained how an NPC can travel from one location to another while in low processing mode which we know they can do. You can meet them in the middle of their journey so they don't teleport like you claimed. You don't know the answer. Nobody does. This is all internal engine shit which nobody has access to so stop acting like you do.

I kinda don't like really big cities, they are good for immersion but having to go around and talk to a bunch of people who mostly have nothing worthwhile to say is just annoying

That's whiterun?
It's smaller than the swampweed camp from Gothic 1.

If they don't have anything to say why are you forced to talk to them?

fucking mountain blade has horses that simulate cars better than Skyrim. Warband horses accelerate, decelerate, have varying turn speeds, can't strafe, you can look independently of the direction they are moving, etc.

Everytime you enter a city, it checks the current time, then it has a list of all NPC's schedule, and try to match corresponding schedule.

This is why can see NPC sit down and begin reading book everytime you enter their residence.

>Enter house
>NPC sits down, open book, reading
>Leave House, re-enter
>NPC sits down again, open book, reading
>Repeat for hours until new schedule begins

You can see them awkwardly teleport outside when using wait function

>Bethesda is probably one of the laziest devs ever at polishing games, even though they're a huge company
Morrowind was made by 30 people
Fallout 76 was made by over 400
becoming a huge company fucked their games up if anything

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>Fallout 76 was made by over 400
This is incorrect.

Fallout 76 was made by the Austin branch of Bethesda, which has about 100 people on it.

Maryland Bethesda only gave them some small help for some quests, while Toronto Bethesda had no hand in it at all.

>Fallout 76 was made by over 400
small time frame tho desu.

^This

Bethesda, as a company, has over 400 people in it now, but those 400 people are split between 4 different branches, and not all branches work on the same projects.

>Fallout 76 was made by the Austin branch of Bethesda
it was made by all Bethesda core studios and even pulled people from id Software and Machine Games.
I'm going to work in 15 minutes, but be my guets and look that shit up, if you will.

>white run
>fren

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>it was made by all Bethesda core studios and even pulled people from id Software and Machine Games.
It was not.

The game was made by Bethesda Austin, with Bethesda Maryland providing some additional assistance on quest design.

Id just forked over the quake netcode for them to use, but didn't actually partake in making the game.

>>NPC sits down, open book, reading
>>Leave House, re-enter
>>NPC sits down again, open book, reading
It is true that sometimes this occurs but it doesn't always occur. This is why people aren't sure how the low processing mode works. There's inconsistencies getting in the way of effective speculation. The best you can say is low processing mode state is not guaranteed to be "current".
>You can see them awkwardly teleport outside when using wait function
That's because the wait function effectively kills all processing during its execution. You run it and then when it's done the game tries to figure out where an NPC should be. But that doesn't mean that's how the game always executes, that just indicates what impact the wait function has on it. And how would the game know to teleport an NPC outside their house because their schedule demands it if the game is executing their schedule only when the player is in the same cell? And again, you haven't explained traveling in low processing mode. If you schedule an NPC to travel from one city to another you can meet them on the road in the middle of their journey.

Clearly, there's more going on under the hood than you wish to acknowledge.

If you paralyze an NPC inside a house for 300 seconds spell, then go outside 1 minute before 9:30 [Outdoors Walking Schedule], the npc will come outside exactly at schedule, with paralyze effect completly resetted

to be fair to beth that is a clever way to not have to save development resources

it will probably be "single player" online only DRM with "mods" that you have to pay for on the creation club. Trying to add custom mods will trigger the antihack and automatically uninstall the game from your hard drive.

So low processing mode doesn't honor status effects? Okay? What's your point? How does that prove any of your claims were right? The fact that you acknowledge the person comes out the door is admitting your initial claim was bullshit. And don't think I haven't noticed you dodged the travel question for the third fucking time.

Reminder, Bethesda will never release something as comfy as Dafferfall ever again

Do you work for bethesda? this genuinely sounds like something they would do, but instead of just uninstalling its removed from your account.

>it sounds like something they would do
>they have never done anything like this before
HMMMMM

Online DRM with paid mods? yeah they never done that.

Uninstalling and removing a game when you break the terms of service? yeah they never did that before...

What is fallout 76

>imagine owning an IP
>where people literally remaster games for you
>where everyone wants you to do the best
>and shitting out games like fallout 76
Bethesda doesn't care about the games or fans, it's all about the money

>where people literally remaster games for you
Which never come out because the teams on said projects are so filled with drama that they collapse before getting anywhere done.

They need an engine that isn't 5 different layers of spaghetti code

>they collapse before getting anything do-
take it back

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Which is why the mod community for these games are is so fucking shit.
They should have had modpacks figured out years ago, instead they have gone the opposite way and someone trying to make modpacks have been shutdown.

>Bethesda said they just wanted to focus on other weapons besides spears.
>axe hammer sword all control and feel the same
>spears are something that would actually change the melee gameplay a bit
oh yeah truly not just their incompetence

>spears are something that would actually change the melee gameplay a bit
they really wouldn't though. They played exactly the same as any other melee weapon in Morrowind, theres no reason they wouldn't in Skyrim either.

I want to know more about that space rpg they're doing. Could be good

Stop repeating things youve heard without looking them up. "b-but Call of Duty is still using IdTech 3" was the excuse for GameBryo in 2011, and since then as that engine really started to show its age they upgraded to idtech 4 and 5.
John Carmack is a fucking genius and each version of Id Tech is basically a full rewrite. Please name any AAA game using an old engine or even any title still using idtech 3 or 4.

They need a new executive producer. This one has been mediocre but they keep him because people believe his lies.

in the context of something like fallout or BOTW it makes sense since its post apocalyptic

>>need to have loading screen to open wardrobe because engine doesn't even have oclusion culling
>>need to implement train as npc head

Translation please.

Imagine owning an IP, and then shitting all over your loyal fans constantly. To the point of undermining their trust with promises of wealth, and having them backstab eachother to fill your own pockets with 75% of the profits.

Imagine taking something beatiful and force it to brutally kill itself.

If you actually played the games you'd know pre-Bethesda that caravans were used with flatbed trucks pulled by brahmin. It's not in the modern games because Bethesda doesnt want to animate it.

>If you actually played the games you'd know pre-Bethesda that caravans were used with flatbed trucks pulled by brahmin.
This never showed up in Fallout 1/2.

>and having them backstab eachother to fill your own pockets with 75% of the profits.
No one made modders be egotistical cunts who backstab each other. Modders have just been that way since Morrowind.

Modders were always lazy, self obsessed, narcissists who only made mods to get their e-peen sucked, which is why modder drama has been systemic since forever.

>who gives a fuck about shit like "drain luck" not an argument
Drain luck is not a spell effect in Morrowind: Drain Attribute is, which can be set to any of the eight attributes. That's only counted as 1 spell effect, not just copy/pasted for every stat to inflate the numbers like you're implying.
But yes there are definitely useless effects, I would have gone with "weakness to disease", a spell nobody would ever use for any reason. Of course, when people say they want Morrowind's spells back they're not talking about that, they're talking about all of its unique game changing and build defining spells like levitation, jump, slowfall, interventions, mark/recall,

Agree with all your other points. In nearly every case quantity has been reduced in the newer games, relative quality has increased in proportion. However when it comes to the variety of spell effects and freeform use of them Morrowind stands out in the series as a damn fine wizard simulator.

>Which never come out
Enderal did, and both Skyblivion and Beyond Skyrim are coming along nicely, Skywind too although I heard from some of you fags that the developers of the latter are retards.
>inb4 never ever
Beyond Skyrim alone will be better than what current Bethesda could ever do with TESVI
youtu.be/FdN8BLwo1cQ

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>No one made modders be egotistical cunts who backstab each other
>I just supplied the weapons, I'm not responsible for this war

>Modders were always lazy, self obsessed, narcissists who only made mods to get their e-peen sucked
>doing shit for free makes you lazy

this sounds like sour grapes. I will agree the modding community is fucking batshit insane though

The only weapons Bethesda supplied was the CK tools. And that "weapon" is why modding exists in the first place.

>doing shit for free makes you lazy
That wasn't the argument being made, nice strawman.

>Enderal did
Enderal wasn't a full remake, and had like 1/20 the content of Skyrim.

> and both Skyblivion and Beyond Skyrim are coming along nicely, Skywind too
Yeah, until its out, it isn't

>That wasn't the argument being made, nice strawman.

modders do shit for free.
yet you consider that lazy.
You know they don't actually have to mod right? they just do this as a hobby typically.

>The only weapons Bethesda supplied was the CK tools.
Paid mods was basically the forbidden fruit.
You had a bunch of people that could reliably just steal content with little reprecussions at eachothers throats.

>inb4 you weren't allowed to steal content

No one cared besides autists.

>NPCs can't pathfind
>so how can it go along a very specific set track?
By being a scripted event? What the fuck was the point of that statement? Pathfinding is an entity following a set of rules to attempt to create the best path it can to find its way to a destination set, not a fully preset path.

>yet you consider that lazy.
No, I consider most modders lazy because most games are super low effort reskins or sluttifications of existing content.

>Paid mods was basically the forbidden fruit.
Only retards got angry over paid mods, since its entirely optional, and modders had been doing under the table charges for mods for years anyways.

Not to mention, accusations of mod theft have been a problem since Morrowind.

>because most games
because most mods for these games*

just make a skyrim MMO and it will be the biggest game ever
look at classic

Same system is used for both cases. In a Bethesda game even NPCs on a preset path in a scripted event are just pathfinding along a series of points.

>No, I consider most modders lazy because most games are super low effort reskins or sluttifications of existing content.

how is that lazy?
That's like saying you not putting a 1000% into your replies is lazy.

>Only retards got angry over paid mods, since its entirely optional, and modders had been doing under the table charges for mods for years anyways.

You mean donations?
And way to downplay the absolute fucking shit storm that was paid mods. It wasn't even "entirely optional" because if you didn't put it up on the website first, someone else could claim it before you.

>Not to mention, accusations of mod theft have been a problem since Morrowind.
like I said though, no one gives a shit outside autists.
>oh no my mod is getting more attention and more people are installing it
how awful.

>Play Skyrim for the first time
>Well it doesnt look good
>Well the gameplay is stiff as fuck and shallow
>The quests are literally uninspired except for few exceptions

>Play Witcher 3
>Towns are huge with a ton of NPC making it pretty realistic to real cities
>Looks incredible for an open world game
>Combat has much more depth compared to Skyrim with actual tactics involved

Well Bethesda is now going to release fallout 4 i hope they learned their less...
>Game looks like slightly modded Fallout
>Improved gameplay but not much
>Biggest town has like 20 Npcs in a fucking stadion
>Loading screens everywhere
>Repeating quests and respawning enemies in enemy camps all the fucking time
>One of the worst stories so far
>Atleast the sandbox and craftig was better

Bethesda is only alive because people use mods to fix all the broken things.

>how is that lazy?
>doing basically nothing just to get your dick sucked on the internet How is it not lazy?
>And way to downplay the absolute fucking shit storm that was paid mods.
The "shitstorm" was a small vocal minority who went into the same knee jerk reactionary shit fit that we see all the time nowadays.
> It wasn't even "entirely optional" because if you didn't put it up on the website first, someone else could claim it before you.
It was entirely optional, and most modders didn't do it, and most modders didn't have their shit stolen.
>like I said though, no one gives a shit outside autists.
The same group of people who were complaining about paid mods in the first place!

>doing basically nothing just to get your dick sucked on the internet How is it not lazy?

you sound extremely jealous and petty holy shit.

>The "shitstorm" was a small vocal minority who went into the same knee jerk reactionary shit fit that we see all the time nowadays.

The entire community went up in flames and half the mods got pulled from nexus due to this bullshit. You had major mods going pay only, and then everyone using the mod for their mods were fucked. It created a huge fucking ripple that destroyed everything. You are beyond hope if you think this is nothing.
And the way you talk about it makes you sound like some 12 year old that think content creators owe you anything.

>Towns are huge with a ton of NPC making it pretty realistic to real cities
Towns are a chore to get through and the world feels like its made of cardboard since you can't interact with it.
>Looks incredible for an open world game
The open world is massively empty, with most marked locations being nothing more then 2-3 chests in some water, or four weak enemies guardian a nest.
>Combat has much more depth compared to Skyrim with actual tactics involved
Witcher 3's combat is one of its most mocked features because its boring, and their attempts to make it "tactical" just turned it into a chore., Skyrim's combat is awful, but you can just get through it quickly and get back to the game.

Witcher 3 was a game of style and MUH GRAPHICS, over any sort of actual substance to its world.

The thing that always puzzled me the most is why do they still have shit animation ? Out of all the problems the engine has, good anims should be the easiest thing to fix and yet they haven't done so. There still isn't a running animation for diagonal movement not to mention the quality of the animations that are there.
I haven't played FO4 so maybe it's better but I'm really confused anyway. Even if they couldn't change their anims team they could've at least paid for a training of some sort.

>you sound extremely jealous and petty holy shit.
Jealous of what?
>The entire community went up in flames and half the mods got pulled from nexus due to this bullshit.
Not even half, not even 1/4, not even 1/10. There were like 6 or 7 mods that got pulled, mainly from people like Apollowdownsyndrome, who everyone mock anyways.
>It created a huge fucking ripple that destroyed everything.
Which is why everything is still perfectly fine and exactly the way it was before even today?
>And the way you talk about it makes you sound like some 12 year old that think content creators owe you anything.
Ironic you would say this because I am advocating FOR people being able to charge money for mods, which would mean I DON'T think people just owe me everything. Whereas you are the one saying people SHOULDN'T be able to do so, which would imply you DO expect everyone to just hand you all the mods you want for free.

You are so deep in you shit-fit you can't even see how nonsensical your arguments are

Call me when you can roleplay as a racist crestfallen soldier, a skooma addicted thief, or an ex-Nazi illusion mage fangirling over a bygone race in TW3

>Towns are a chore to get through and the world feels like its made of cardboard since you can't interact with it.
What a shitty opinion. Going thorugh the towns in Witcher 3 was the first time in a videogame were it felt like you were in a real city and not some small village compared to Skyrim.

>The open world is massively empty, with most marked locations being nothing more then 2-3 chests in some water, or four weak enemies guardian a nest.
So like Skyrim but better right? Because Skyrim had dungeons but these were just auto generated and looked all the same.

>Witcher 3's combat is one of its most mocked features because its boring, and their attempts to make it "tactical" just turned it into a chore., Skyrim's combat is awful, but you can just get through it quickly and get back to the game.
So let me get this straight: You are happy that you can be down with actual gameplay so you can explore the uninspired world in Skyrim? So thats what Bethesdafans love the most it seems roaming the world with nearly nothing in it to explore auto generated dungeons with the same enemies over and over again.

>Witcher 3 was a game of style and MUH GRAPHICS, over any sort of actual substance to its world.
Cool opinion my dude. In other words it had atleast graphics compared to Skyrim... well nothing i guess.

>There still isn't a running animation for diagonal movement
Yeah there is
youtube.com/watch?v=4UKcP5nHCBA

>Which is why everything is still perfectly fine and exactly the way it was before even today?

because that didn't happen yesterday dumbass.

>Ironic you would say this because I am advocating FOR people being able to charge money for mods, which would mean I DON'T think people just owe me everything

So you're ready to pay for each and every mod you own, and will be totally fine with them having the exact same level of quality and technical issues? If you want to pay them so much why don't you simply donate instead of forcing paid mods?

>which would imply you DO expect everyone to just hand you all the mods you want for free.

really trying hard with that moral reversal aren'tcha.

I've made my own mods and I treat it like a community. I never expected anyone to pay me and I've given money back when offered. Only time I was ever paid was when someone specifically asked me to do work for them.

> was the first time in a videogame were it felt like you were in a real city
Not really. Not only had GTA been doing this kind of shit since GTA 3 came out in 2001, but GTA's cities tend to have more to do in them compared to Witcher 3.

Not only that, but I don't know what kind of city you go to where 99% of the buildings can't be entered and are just flat textures, but real cities have buildings you can go into and look around.Which is why Bethesda towns feel better then W3.

>So like Skyrim but better right? Because Skyrim had dungeons but these were just auto generated and looked all the same.
None of Skyrim's dungeons were just auto generated, they were all handmade. And there was honestly more diversity in Skyrim's dungeons then W3's world.

>to explore auto generated dungeons
You keep using this phrase, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

>In other words it had atleast graphics compared to Skyrim... well nothing i guess.
Skyrim maintains Bethesda's rather famous depth of world building and lore. There's tons of books, notes, ancient pictographs, small dungeons quests with various lore bits, all across the map whereas Witcher had none of them. The most witcher 3 had was some short quests to find old Wticher gear that barely expanded upon anything of the other Wticher schools.

>because that didn't happen yesterday dumbass.
There was never any collapse to begin with.
>So you're ready to pay for each and every mod you own
No, if mods cost money I would simply not get them. That doesn't mean I am against people being able to ask for money for things they spent time working on.
>I've made my own mods and I treat it like a community.
So your part of the problem that has made the modding community such a shithole that it is today?

My bad then, misremembered it.

>doing basically nothing just to get your dick sucked on the internet
Fairly sure the egotist fucks are the minority. I don't know about you but whenever I've gone to a mod's discussion page it's been nothing but users reviewing/posting bugs and maybe the author responding to them. You can't tell me that a random guy that made a simple mod back in 2012 that added an Elder Scroll as an accessory you could hang on your back did it to get his dick sucked

>No, if mods cost money I would simply not get them

pfft
alright well thanks for trying.

> I don't know about you but whenever I've gone to a mod's discussion page it's been nothing but users reviewing/posting bugs and maybe the author responding to them.
Pretty much every single major mod on the nexus has the author elementally denying there are any bugs in his mod, and everyone is just lying. The bigger the mod the more prone to being psychopathic mod authors are.

>Stop repeating things youve heard without looking them up. "b-but Call of Duty is still using IdTech 3" was the excuse for GameBryo in 2011, and since then as that engine really started to show its age they upgraded to idtech 4 and 5.
You're actually retarded and have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
You should genuinely consider suicide.

Why is half this thread full of "their engine can't do things that it can do!" shitposts?

>Pretty much every single major mod on the nexus has the author elementally denying there are any bugs in his mod, and everyone is just lying.

>user did you install it correctly
>No, see your mod is all buggy
>did you actually install it correctly?
>No shut up, this is a bug on your end, stop being so lazy!

Most gamers really have no idea how games work, they just know there is this thing called an engine, so they treat it like a nebulous concept and blame everything on it when, 99% of the time, it has nothing to do with it.

>Skyrim's dungeons are auto generated
>Skyrim's dungeons look all the same
When will this meme die? It's as if you don't play the game you talk about

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>It's as if you don't play the game you talk about
90% of threads on Yea Forums then?

hearsay and misrepresentation from modders probably.

I saw something about a 360 walk thing by a modder and thought OP was right myself.

They all look the same because they use tilesets, but they're not auto-generated.
Oblivion and Morrowind's dungeons weren't auto-generated but they were made by copy-and-paste rooms.

>Bethesda is only alive because people use mods to fuck lolis

fixed

>Skyrim's dungeons look all the same

do they not?

they aren't auto generated but they do all look the same and follow the same exact design strategy of the skyrim loop door to put you back at the dungeon start

>That doesn't mean I am against people being able to ask for money for things they spent time working on
If you start working on a mod YOU KNOW you're doing it for free, demanding money later on is retarded, and besides that's what the Donate button is for. You'd be surprised how many people actually do donate money to modders that do a great job

The problem isn't the engine, it's the programmers. Shit, a brand new engine might even cause new problems. It remains to be seen if the masses get tired of seeing their games look janky, but given how video games have somewhat regressed here and there in some visual effects like those FEAR vs Bioshock Infinite gifs, they'll probably continue to eat that shit up for a good while yet.

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That was a mod for Oblivion though.
The only modders i've paid attention to call people drooling retards when they complain about the engine.

>That was a mod for Oblivion though.
nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/34508?tab=posts

I mean this.
but I'll be honest I'm still not sure what the fuck this mod does.

>easier to find
zoomers are so lazy they dont want grander cities, even oblivion had bigger cities with more people in them.
Fallout 4s city, IS a city, unlike any of the mudhut total population of: 5 cities in skyrim.

>and besides that's what the Donate button is for
And as even the Nexus staff themselves have pointed out back when the paid mod thing was going on, at no time since they have put up the donation button has ANY modder on ANY nexus site gotten any noteworthy amount of donations, either individual or cumulative.

They added them starting Skyrim though New Vegas also didn't have them even though it wasn't made by Bethesda.

Yes.
As much as I enjoyed Fallout 4 (although it obviously isn't their greatest game), I'm done with the engine. It's too buggy, too badly optimised, looks garbage now.

>would have gone with "weakness to disease", a spell nobody would ever use for any reason.
That's where you're wrong. Weakness to disease is a great spell to cast on yourself if you want become a vampire.

>This tiny mod lets your character to walk toward near side of the screen instead of backsteps when weapon is sheathed.
There you go.

I read that like 5 times on the page, watched all the videos, and then read it again and I'm still confused.

so its basically a mod that lets your character walk towards the screen?

Bethesda needs a new studio.

Not really
Nah. Dungeons may use the same tilesets but they're easily distinguishable by layout alone. Bleak Falls Barrow, Redoran's Retreat, Silent Moons Camp, Stony Creek Cave, Arkngthamz, Broken Oar Grotto, and countless others.
You may not remember them by name when you start a new playthrough, but they all have a distinct design that rings a bell the moment you set foot in them, and many others.

>loading screens
>he played on console

You know, I don't know

I think this is the longest bethesda thread without pictures of porn.

You now realize Fallout 76 is running on the same engine as Morrowinds.

No matter how good your PC is, Beth's engines are so unoptimized you'll have loading screens whether you like it or not.

Saying fo76 runs on the same engine as Morrowind is like saying Portal 2 runs on the same engine as Half Life 1. It's so demonstrably false its hilarious.

I guess tiny cities were worth it in the end so we can enjoy stripping random corpses naked and watching spoons glitch out.

>You now realize Fallout 76 is running on the same engine as Morrowinds.

Artifact is running on the same engine as quake.

It's not though, the source engine is fundamentally different to quake's engine. Gamebryo is just an updated version of NetImmerse however.

Half Life 1 ran on GoldSrc.
Morrowind ran on Gamebryo
Half Life 2 ran on Source
Skyrim ran on Creation

>the source engine is fundamentally different to quake's engine

is it really?

The problem isn't the engine, it's the chucklefucks building on it.
>to get around them they need to either use new engine or completely rewrite basis of code of current one, which is basically same as using new one
Which they did when they went from Gambryo to Creation, but it still sucks because they are incompetent

Tiny cities were worth it in the end so we can enjoy entering every single house there is with unique lay out items and rob it blind during a pure thief playthrough

That's a good point, though if you use Command Humanoid on a vampire and spam pickpocket on them (they won't get care even if they catch you while under a command spell) each pickpocket counts the same as them hitting you as far as infection chance goes, and due to the way the menu pauses and has no delay you can do it dozens of times per in-game second, basically guaranteeing infection even with a short 3-5 second duration.
Command Humanoid is the real MVP for becoming a vampire.

NetImmerse -> Gamebryo -> Creation

It's the same fucking engine. Why do you think it's so fucking shit? Papyrus being an outdated-as-hell scripting engine doesn't help either, which is why heavily modded Skyrim/FO4 games crash so often because it literally can't handle too many scripts running at once.

>game crashes when you overload it with bullshit
So does Garry's Mod and any modded game.

Garry's mod never crashed on me. The physics fucked up sure but it never resulted in a CTD or complete failure to even start the game.

>Papyrus being an outdated-as-hell scripting engine doesn't help either
Papyrus was made for Skyrim, and didn't exist in earlier titles.

THat's because you didn't install hundreds of ridiculous mods like I did.

In my experience, the worst optimized city made in any game I played was Minas Tirith in Lord of the Rings Online.
It was huge, had seven tiers, tons of NPCs to interact with and many quests, a whole underground cistern, a bunch of instances and shit. It was the biggest city they made in the game.
The only downside is that the fucking engine was a dinosaur and couldn't handle it. The game kept crashing, it was literally impossible to play at high graphics because there was too many memory leaks on a 32bit client. It was poorly optimized and the engine simply couldn't handle it. It was basically the same engine that was used for Asherons Call 2.

With that said, Bethesda should have a lot more money, talent and resources so they should be able to completely make a new engine. Except they won't. They keep patching the same engine they used for Oblivion and that's why their games are starting to flop... Also I don't expect much from them in the future. Fallout 76 was a huge blow to whatever goodwill the company had with its players and unless they actually stick their fingers out of their asses and work on a new engine. The new Elder Scrolls game will be hideous.

They need a lot more than a new engine. Even if they had the best tech the world has to offer they still have shit devs, shit writers, and shit management. Their games are shallow and dull with piss poor writing. Their last decent game was oblivion and if you enjoy their newer stuff that's fine but I don't get their near universal praise.

>ctrl f "papyrus"
>no results
c'mon fellas, gamebryo's not that bad, but the real sin is papyrus, that shit is absolutely inexcusable

>They keep patching the same engine they used for Oblivion
Entirely untrue.

Creation =/= Gamebryo

>ctrl f "papyrus"
>no results
Look harder?

>fully extendable and versatile scripting engine that makes an active effort not to affect your framerate
>it's bad because my script to make fifty thousand altmer sluts rain from the sky doesn't work!

There's always some smart ass that joins these threads saying it's an entirely different engine and most other engines have code from past engines. That is true, but in the context of Bethesda, they'll just get as lazy as possible with it. The only thing that can save Elder Scrolls and Fallout is if a developer like that just starts from the ground up. Otherwise, we're just going to see the same bugs and other shit from past games. Bethesda DOES treat it like a Morrowind mod.

>The only thing that can save Elder Scrolls and Fallout is if a developer like that just starts from the ground up
That would, if anything, kill the series because it would mean both developers and modders would have to throw out everything they have worked with for decades to start again with something they aren't used to, which would only result in an overall lowering of the quality of the games.

>they can barely use the engine they have now
>surely if they recode everything from scratch it'll be better

>A game is only good if modders can easily mod it
>Their games can only be good if modders mod the shit out of it to fix all the bugs the developers are too damn braindead to fix and put in content the devs are too fucking lazy to put in
FTFY

>unique lay out items
lol, Skyrim houses are all the fucking same and contain the same shit.

>Source?
No open world and loading screens between locations

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both of these are wrong, aseptically in regards to something like Fallout 4, which added in a huge numbers of mods/requested features from Fo3 and NV as offcial features.

Except they don't, you have all the proof you need in the game right now, go check. No two houses have the same layout of furniture and/or objects

Seriously, why does Bethesda trigger so many people on this board? Every time they come up meme spouting fucktards come out of the woodwork en masse to rehash the same tired bullshit that were debunked years ago. Legitimate criticism is fine and all but like 90% of the Bethesda whining is just utter crap. Apparently it's not enough to just not like their games. No, they have to objectively be the single most corrupt and incompetent developers to have ever existed too.

user, it doesn't matter if in one house the bedroom is on the left, and in another it's on the right. What matters is that it's the same shit, and the things you'll find there are all the same. Same with caves and dungeons. once you've seen all the constructor blocks the buildings are made of, you've seen all buildings themselves. It's the downside of system driven world like that, it gets fucking boring quickly.

Beth definitely needs a new engine. Problem is, can they find one and have the same modablity?

They should just use minecrafts engine, it's got a 100 times better modding community

but they did improve graphics with each game, they even learned how to turn fallout into a semi decent shooter (I'm not ironic here). maybe skyrim wasn't on par with comparable same gen triple A titles but we're talking about huge 80+ hours rpg on one side and 10 hours of cinematic experiences on other. would changing engine help? dunno, it might but it might also heavily increase development time and the amount of bugs in the final version. would hiring more talented people help? in a long run definitely, there are already a lot of them in the modding community.

What's with all the "workarounds and retarded immersion annihilating game design are totally devs choices and not engine limitations and it's all fine" defenses here? If they can't make proper sized city because all the forks and plates in random NPC's house take too much resources, it's time for either a major fucking overhaul or an entirely new engine.

> If they can't make proper sized city because all the forks and plates in random NPC's house take too much resources, it's time for either a major fucking overhaul or an entirely new engine.
This has nothing to do with the engine though. Witcher 3 doesn't include forks and shit because of the same reasons.

Also, advocating for a quantity over quality game design is retarded.

They should take a book outta how cryengine was made.
Go over and beyond what current tech manages to run so that the new engine will be futureproof for the next decade.

>Cryengine
>literally tech demo the engine that's infamous for requiring a fucking super computer to run even remotly well
There is a reason why fucking no one uses it, its an awful engine.

Yeah, because nobody really gives a fuck about forks, or bowls or any other random shit you can find in NPC homes. It's all fucking useless and it has nothing to do with quality or good game design. A bigger city will offer infinitely more in terms of immersion and role playing than shitty purposeless object physics.

CryEngine is one of the shittiest engines out there and the most of the devs who use it tend to speak negatively about it.

>most of the devs who use it tend to speak negatively about it.
Name one.

A bigger city only offers more immersion if your some ADHD clown you never actually takes a moment to stop and look at anything. Because GTA/W3 style cities are unimmersive as possible due to how fake and cardboard everything is. And becuase you can't interact with 99% of it, you spend more time walking/driving between places to do shit then you actually spend DOING things.

All that style of game design is good for is padding shit out unnecessarily

Kys, lazy zoomer
Immersion matters in RPGs.
Go play CoD for "easy to find" objectives

>No two houses have the same layout of furniture and/or objects
You're not making an effort, user

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>due to how fake and cardboard everything is
Are you seriously trying to tell me that you consider Skyrim or Fallout 4 cities less fake and cardboard? Are you fucking serious right now?
> And becuase you can't interact with 99% of it, you spend more time walking/driving between places to do shit then you actually spend DOING things.
Doing what, dipshit? What purpose does calculating physics for Grilled Leeks in some faggot's generic hut serve, other than wasting CPU cycles? How is that not padding shit unnecessarily? If you are defending Bethesda here, you are defeating your own arguments.

>Are you seriously trying to tell me that you consider Skyrim or Fallout 4 cities less fake and cardboard?
>GTA and Witcher 3
>I see a building or an NPC
>I can't interact with said building or NPC at all
>Skyrim
>I see and building or NPC
>I can enter that buildings and talk to that NPCS
>HOW DO YOU FIND THAT MORE REALISTIC!
How do you not?

>What purpose does calculating physics for Grilled Leeks in some faggot's generic hut serve
immersion and verisimilitude.

The Star Citizen devs outside of their PR shills. It was a horrible engine that they had to basically rebuild from the ground up.

>I can enter that buildings and talk to that NPCS
Yeah, you can enter a generic hut and have a generic conversation.
>HOW DO YOU FIND THAT MORE REALISTIC!
Because the way it's implemented is pretty fucking bad and boring. It has nothing to do with realism and only shows how fake the NPCs and the world really are.
>immersion and verisimilitude.
And how realistically sized cities not offer that, but in a way that you will actually notice and appreciate? Did you ever thought why everybody praise Novigrad and Los Santos, but nobody ever gives a fuck about all the physicalized shit in Skyrim?

And finally, my initial point was, why no have fucking both at this point? Why even have this compromise? Because of engine's limitations. Make a new engine, with better scalability, better AI, where you can have both giant cities with enterable houses and individual fucking cutlery pieces together. Hire new competent writers and animators. Perpetuating this old af engine designed for Xbox 360 is not gonna cut it any longer.

They would have to rebuild any engine from ground up for the shit they are trying to build. The feature bloat there is unreal. Last I've seen they have redid the UI system entirely on html base and got rid of Scaleform just because it was slow and cumbersome to use for their purposes.

>I see a building or an NPC
>I can't interact with said building or NPC at all

Except you can shoot them and take their cash, piss them off to start a fight or act like a bitch, threaten or encourage drug dealers, shoot enemy gangsters/cops and take their weapons, shoot or recruit friendly gangsters and take/utilize their weapons, get into a generic UPS type truck and commit robberies.

Going into more recent GTAs, start a fight or act like a bitch, rob a convenience store, shoot npcs and take their money, and shoot gangsters/cops and take their weapons.

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