Give one good reason to play aged, outdated games, over modern indie titles

> indies
> good
maybe 1 in every 10 thousand indie games is worth spending evne half an hour on

Games don’t age.

god fuck that game, I had low expectations but it's just so bad, the world building is non-existent so it's just impossible to fucking care about anything that happens

Why watch stage performance when you can just watch a movie?

He's right. Unless you're painting realism, then there's objective quality to it.

Indie games have always been pale imitations of old games. You're a fucker if you think shit like 8 Bit Boy or Celeste or Meat Boy stand up to Mario 3.

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Name a single indie game as good or as fluid as Zero 2 or 3.

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This. For example, of all the indie platformers, has anyone tried to make a game like SMB3 or SMW? No, they don't even bother, because it would require too much originality and care.

You're right, just look how much better the production values are in old games!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=zbqLLB3dMFQ
vs.
youtube.com/watch?v=yn2B0hU1IGM

Attached: pepel.png (548x512, 544K)

That's why Gronk's art has SOUL

I thought the ancient greeks were the old masters

>shitting particles everywhere is quality
you should have told us you wanted light show games

Super Meat Boy and Mario 3 have basically nothing to do with eachother, SMB takes a lot of skill and practice, whereas Mario 3 was made for 10 year olds to finish.

Even when doing realism, your choice of subject and the parameters (lighting, style, medium) all play into expressing yourself, which is the primary purpose of art.
That's also why """modern""" """""""art""""""" is not art.

I'm confused, cause it sounds like you're arguing yourself. If selecting medium, subject, etc is expression, then even if it's just a three tone painting of basic geometric shapes, how was that also not expression? I'm sure you could argue that the meaning or thought behind it wasn't as deep as the person spending weeks or months on a piece, but it's still art.

that doesn't make it a better game, mario 3 has entire levels, SMB just has single screen levels with one path that you can just learn through trial and error, by your logic IWBTG is the best video game ever made

Indeed.

He's simple, his art is simple. As it should be.

> mario 3 has entire levels, SMB just has single screen levels with one path that you can just learn through trial and error
Literally every game can be leraned through trial and error, including Mario 3. You are however, kidding yourself if you believe Mario 3 requires the same amount of mechanical precision and reflexes that SMB does.

Modern art is still art whether you like it or not.

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Give me indie equivalents of Age of Mythology and Warcraft 3 and then we'll talk.

>then even if it's just a three tone painting of basic geometric shapes, how was that also not expression?
Basic three tone painting of basic geometric shapes can be artistic.
Modern art is about the idea that you can shit out whatever you want with no effort and the audience decides what it means to them, which is to say that, by definition, you are not expressing yourself. That's the primary difference.
The secondary difference is that expressing yourself effectively by merely using three tone paintings of basic geometric shapes is insanely hard. You either end up producing non-art pretentious garbage, or a true masterpiece. Protip: nobody has ever achieved the latter.

Man that looks like someone was going to do a bad ass sculpture, and then they gave up a quarter of the way in.

Alternatively, what are some indies that are complete and not just experimental.

I'd say Hollow Knight.

keyword is equivalent
it has to be equally good

The context of the thread is OP arguing that every old game has an indie version that's just better (which is bullshit), but fine, pretend I said FFT instead

0AD and megaglest

What about a commercial AAA alternative to xcom? There are none either.

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The Highway men were fantastic artists, sure.

Yeah, I don't know why he doesn't like finishing his sculptures, I belive the kid has potential but he's still learning.

he didnt infer that either game was worse or better, their similarities start and end at the particular genre but even then they're vastly different perspectives of the platformers

Nex Machina is one of the best and most difficult twin stick shooters out there. All the particles are to represent different powerups, attacks, enemies, weapons, etc.

Take your pick though,

youtube.com/watch?v=fhfrO2krQUE
vs.
youtube.com/watch?v=Em7UwOOBvlA

youtube.com/watch?v=Jzk77R7si0I
vs.
youtube.com/watch?v=vzyRNjHGGpo

youtube.com/watch?v=rpRQE-UFAl0
vs.
youtube.com/watch?v=1qctKI_t5eY

youtube.com/watch?v=FarUc_Yh_YY
vs.
youtube.com/watch?v=bxTWUeXqNWc

I genuinely don't know how anyone in a right state of mind think the latter are better than the former.

>Indies are basically modern versions of these older games
you would hope, but they're actively doing sub-par jobs compared to older games
which is understandable, seeing as how older games were being made by equivalent AAA dev teams for their time

>Give one good reason to play aged, outdated games, over modern indie titles.
because i want to

The Messenger

Wrong

This is retarded. You can only compare the top two. They're both pencil sketches. Bottom left is oil on canvas, bottom right is... charcoal on rock? Anyways, in the top two, the older one is clearly more talented, drawing an anthropomorphic rabbit freehand, while the newer guy is struggling to draw a human torso and head with loomis techniques.

Attached: dawj32-bb379186-ecae-479e-89cf-fbfb5a587796.jpg (384x600, 138K)

>implying any of those tried to be like the next panel
If he wanted to draw classical art he wouldn't work a job drawing bugs bunny, wtf is this dumb comic?

>Indies are basically modern versions of these older games except with better controls, graphics, sound, hitboxes, physics, AI, and level design.
>And significantly less content

Also
>hitboxes
>Modern games all use fucking hitscan

you can be bad or good at expressing yourself. we do not have the ability to telepathically transmit our innermost thoughts. expression via physical art is a technical enterprise.

When was the last time you played Super Mario Brothers 3? How long did it take you to finish it? Unless you played it recently and finished in under 2.5 hours I doubt you're fairly assessing the challenges in the game.

>>And significantly less content
Do people actually believe this? Vast majority of arcade, NES, and SNES games are like 30 minutes long with no extras, and the entire "length" of the game was just because they had limited lives and send you to the beginning so you can't really practice anything and it's a long and tedious practice to improve at the game. Also most people played them when they were children who had little gaming experience.

See

Shovel Knight is a good blend of NES-era platformers though not Super Mario Brothers specifically. More like Mega Man crossed with Ducktales and maybe Zelda 2.

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>>Modern art is about the idea that you can shit out whatever you want with no effort and the audience decides what it means to them, which is to say that, by definition, you are not expressing yourself. That's the primary difference.
I'm on board with you now, completely agree with that statement. I just didn't catch the syntax you're using.

Still waiting

indie games rarely surpass the classics they're imitating. it happens sometimes, but not often.

Modern art is less about technical skill and more about fundamental expression. However removing this technical barrier means that creating art is more feasible for a lot more people and you unfortunately do get people trying to exploit this market -- but then again is that itself not an expression about the consumers and creators perceptions of modern art itself?
I think its foolish to outright dismiss modern art but I find it easy to understand why its so divisive for many people

Theres tons of classics that have remained unsurpassed despite tons of attempts by indies, capcom beat em ups come to mind but theres tons of other games that I could name. Not to mention emulation has only made the classics better

You play games because they are fun, not because they were released in a certain year.
Dumbass

Indie games are 2 hours long with shallow gameplay and writing that makes Hamburger Hepler look like Jane Austen.

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a man in possession of a library full of indie games, must be in want of at least two inches of girth and three of length.

I think you're mistaken to believe anyone gives a shit about your dumb handheld games one way or the other.

>seething

These direct comparisons actually highlight a huge problem with modern game design, which is namely a huge distinct lack of "presence" that each of the games have.

Top examples:
>Too many visual effects being poured on screen, making it hard to really see and parse what's going on, making light shows instead of gameplay
>Sound design sounds good, but sort of blends in with the rest of the AAA sound design teams with their "realistic" crunches, clacks, and clicks that permeate the audio
>Music just fades in the background
>Games throw way too many enemies, bullets, and obstacles on the screen at once, making it less likely that the player is playing a game and more likely they are mashing buttons and basically getting rewarded for it
>Game design has a few elements that look like they were shoplifted from some game design book, but it never really extends in any meaningful direction beyond that.
>All of these games are forgettable except Hollow Knight and Sine Mora, and in Sine Mora's case, it's only not forgotten because it has Suda 51's name attached to it

Bottom examples:
>Even with the limited palettes, visual effects are kept as clear as they can and reduce the fat on screen, showing distinct characters that pop out from the backgrounds
>Sounds may be blips and bleeps, but each are distinct from each other, giving stronger impressions
>Music has to make due with less, so it creates highly catchy and impressionable melodies that haunt even modern day gamers
>Game throws few enemies, but places them in better positions, making fights more memorable
>Inventing game design on the go
>All of these games are genuinely still remembered as classics to this day even 30+ years later

Only people who love 3D graphics and light shows, but not games, would say the top are superior in any way to games of old.

I have yet to find a GBA title worth playing.

Thank you for reminding me Celeste is free on Epic Store. Installing that shit now.

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Pokémon Sapphire

If you don't think Ninja Five O is the tightest shit you're a gigantic faggot

>Indie games are 2 hours long with shallow gameplay and writing that makes Hamburger Hepler look like Jane Austen.
That's like every AAA title of the last 1o years.

I have for example 500 hours in Mount and Blade and 500 hours in Rimworld.

>Too many visual effects being poured on screen, making it hard to really see and parse what's going on, making light shows instead of gameplay
The issue is that the top games are also much more complex and in-depth with deeper mechanics. Yes, Housemarque is a bit flashy (and I suppose there should be some way to tone it down for those are really opposed to it), but at the same time, all the colors and icons represent different systems, such as powerups, weapons, humans, certain attacks, enemies dying, whether an enemy is taking damage, whether a beam is dashable, etc. You adapt to it very quickly and it is very functional.

>Sound design sounds good, but sort of blends in with the rest of the AAA sound design teams with their "realistic" crunches, clacks, and clicks that permeate the audio
>Music just fades in the background
Sound is used to indicate certain enemies, attacks, powerups, etc. and has a functional purpose. In any case, indies have great OST, and really the only thing the chiptunes of old have going for them is nostalgia.

>making it less likely that the player is playing a game and more likely they are mashing buttons and basically getting rewarded for it
You can't be fucking serious holy shit. All of the games posted are extremely difficult with complex mechanics and steep learning curves. You don't simply mash buttons you complete fucking mong lmfao. Please stop talking about shit you know absolutely nothing about.

>All of these games are forgettable except Hollow Knight and Sine Mora, and in Sine Mora's case, it's only not forgotten because it has Suda 51's name attached to it
Just because a game sold well does not necessarily make it better or more memorable. All of the games I posted are great games with a strong niche following and a steep learning curve and high replayability.

Do whatever you want you fucking retard, just don't try to give your opinion on games you never played

Or perhaps... the retro games are much more simplistic due at least in part to technological restrictions? Many of the retro games you played as a child with little gaming experience, which is why they seemed much more difficult and long. However, the best indie games out now blow most retro games out of the water.

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Don't worry, I'm sure Tim will hit you up with an EGS offer for your walking simulator

Yeah bro why play Advance Wars when you can play chucklefuck's mediocre imitation

It's like having two decades means only the games that stand the test of time are really remembered

>The issue is that the top games are also much more complex and in-depth with deeper mechanics.
They're usually not though. A "complex" mechanic that you can ignore and still win isn't a complex mechanic. Dynesty Warriors and the Musou genre, for example, also pour a lot of shit on the screen and give you a ton of "complex" mechanics, but in general, you can just genuinely button mash your way through the game without any thought to it.

Additionally, pouring so much shit on the screen without thought will encourage this sort of thinking when playing a game, because at some point, the information will be too much for a person to process, so they'll just stick to mashing the A button to win. You may have put 40 different lights on the screen to represent 40 different effects, but that's way too much for anything other than flash.

>Sound is used to indicate certain enemies, attacks, powerups, etc
The problem isn't their usage, it's that they aren't distinct. Most people can identify a huge portion of the Red/Blue Pokémon by their cries. Rewatching the top videos, I couldn't tell you which click, zap, pew pew, or other VIDEO GAME™ noise the game was making was what. The same goes for the music.
>the only thing the chiptunes of old have going for them is nostalgia.
No, it's really more the fact that most of these AAA titles just make very low-key video game noise or epic orchestral and then just leave it at that. Bloodstained also had an amazing soundtrack, because they had a talented composer that knew how to make it stand out, like she made it stand out in Symphony.

>You can't be fucking serious holy shit. All of the games posted are extremely difficult with complex mechanics and steep learning curves
I am though. I've button mashed my way through a few of these. Got bored of them because they required little thought, just like the Musous in my first paragraph.

>Just because a game sold well
Never talked about sales.

>The issue is that the top games are also much more complex and in-depth with deeper mechanics
More is not always better though, if the end result is forgettable.
>steep learning curve
balancing satisfying challenge with a reasonable curve is more praiseworthy from a game design perspective than just ramping up difficulty right away, something any half-assed fag can do.

Sounds like something you tell yourself so you can sleep at night, autist

>Le express yourself meme
Fuck off I dont care about you, paint beautiful pieces of shit happening to more important people I care about.

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I must have gotten super lucky and bought all of them, then
>Shovel Knight
>Binding of Isaac
>Castle Crashers
>Undertale
>Hat in Time
>Risk of Rain
>Risk of Rain 2
>Yooka-Laylee
>DUSK
>A Short Hike
I should start playing the lottery

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Why choose to play anything? Maybe nostalgia. Maybe curiosity. Maybe unique story or mechanics. Maybe there's just nothing else that scratches the itch. If you want to play Shovel Knight over an old SNES game that's cool. But maybe some people don't.

>virtually pure garbage
Zoom-zoom

>the retro games are much more simplistic due at least in part to technological restrictions?
That's grossly undermining the statement. It's not that it's simplistic, it's that it's thoughtful. Necessity is the mother of invention, but even in later games, you don't have this ADHD riddled style of gameplay that is throwing out too much information for one person to properly focus on.

A good modern example of this would be the difference between Baldur's Gate and Sword Coast Legends combat.
youtube.com/watch?v=fQjJvX8WQnc
vs
youtube.com/watch?v=dMyQ47Bsbx0

The Baldur's Gate fight, each time the player pauses, its so that he can issue an action to one of characters. It's also really easy to see what's going on at any second even with the multiple actors on screen. The spell effects each look distinct as well, and the sound effects sound really clear against the background.

Sword Coast Legends combat barrels through without a care of how much info is being thrown at the player. The player is constantly spamming the pause button, rarely to issue actions, but just to check the status of what's going on. If you actually play the game without using pause, you'll find you have no idea what's going on. It's also difficult to tell who is casting what, especially with the laser light show going on.

Also guess which one of these games is a classic, and which one is forgotten?

>Dynesty Warriors and the Musou genre
Nobody here is talking about shallow button masher garbage you goddamn idiot. Seriously, why the fuck are you responding about games you have never played and haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about.

>Additionally, pouring so much shit on the screen without thought will encourage this sort of thinking when playing a game, because at some point, the information will be too much for a person to process, so they'll just stick to mashing the A button to win.
Again, you make absolute zero fucking sense and clearly have never played any of these games. You don't win and you will never will win, ever, in a million fucking years, these games by mashing buttons randomly and not knowing what you are doing. It is a very long and difficult skill level to reach this or be at the level where you understand their movements, actions, and prioritizations. Many of the videos I posted range from extremely difficult to feats that The problem isn't their usage, it's that they aren't distinct. Most people can identify a huge portion of the Red/Blue Pokémon by their cries.
You are comparing a shallow kid's game about mindless grinding of monsters where you can just brute force your way through everything with no knowledge of the game or mechanics at all (stuff like Pokemon Showdown is pretty deep, but Showdown is entirely different from a standard playthrough of R/B) to some of the most complex and mechanically intensive games out there. Again, you just look like a complete fucking idiot to anyone who plays these games. In Pokemon, you aren't doing anything but selecting a move every couple seconds, so yes they can have little nostalgic chiptunes.

How are you actually this fucking ignorant yet you blab on like you have any clue what you're talking about. Just stop posting.

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>the retro games are much more simplistic due at least in part to technological restrictions?
Even if true, it's irrelevant since all that matters in the end is the game itself. If limitations led to better game design then so be it.

All that said, however, it's still bullshit. Limitations prevent you from making certain kinds of mistakes, but in no way guarantee good design.

Batman: The Video Game (NES)
youtube.com/watch?v=JbEAr-Vq0t0
vs
Batman: The Movie (Amiga)
youtube.com/watch?v=3H_loWZS9Jg

The NES game focuses on clear smooth animations, atmosphere, and gameplay. The Amiga game focuses on nice-looking static graphics.

The number of butthurt replies are proof this post is correct. Art is not objective

>Nobody here is talking about shallow button masher garbage you goddamn idiot.
Except when you posted all of those button mashers.

>You don't win and you will never will win, ever, in a million fucking years, these games by mashing buttons randomly and not knowing what you are doing.
Except you can.

>You are comparing a shallow kid's game about mindless grinding of monsters where you can just brute force your way through everything with no knowledge of the game or mechanics at all
The original Red/Blue wasn't afraid to kick your ass. You post like someone who's only ever played the games made past 2007.

>How are you actually this fucking ignorant yet you blab on like you have any clue what you're talking about. Just stop posting.
Literally no arguments in this entire post though. Did you just run out of things to say?

>N-no those are all bad
lololol get some taste and stop trying so hard to fit in faggot

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>I am though. I've button mashed my way through a few of these. Got bored of them because they required little thought, just like the Musous in my first paragraph.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I would love to see you "button mashing" your way through Nex Machina master, Sine Mora insane, Bleed 1/2 arcade on very hard, Assault Android Cactus Infinity Drive, or Hollow Knight 5th Pantheon with all bindings.

The fact that you even type this complete garbage shows you either never played these games at all, or simply did a quick, cursory run through on easier difficulties and/or without completing any of the challenges that take advantage of the depth and mechanics of the game.

>name a single indie game as good as two of the best games of all time
No reason to set such a high standard, not even capcom can recreate the perfection of z2

>pokemon red/blue is a really hard game!
>btw these challenges that .01% of the userbase has completed are really easy and I beat them by randomly button mashing!
Holy fuck this is hilarious

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Hollow Knight is literally the only non button masher in that list though. Sine Mora is just dodge and hold buttons. The rest of the games are just mash buttons and dun git hit.

Still not an argument

>Playing retro OR modern games.
>Not trying to pick up women in REAL LIFE and filming it for Yea Forums.

youtu.be/zVYQlBvauiM

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All these assblasted millennial babies

>tfw thought OP was a fag for trolling
>retarded Yea Forums contrarians managed to make OP seem like not a fag by being far worse
sasuga, I hope a few more shootings happen and this shitty site gets shut down already

seriously dude the problem with those games is not that they're button-mashers it's that they only have appeal to a narrow niche of turbo autists while the traditional games had broad appeal while still being difficult.

that's the thing user, if something CAPCOM has showed up lately that they CULD achieve this level of perfection again, but they deliberately chose not to.

Any platformer on the NES was designed competitively against others of the same genre. They progressively became higher quality in that era because of that competition. Come the nostalgia era, new developers have created dumbed down, boring casual garbage so that moms and lazy 30 something's can play them and feel nostalgia. That is why, minus Cuphead, every indie platformers is fucking horseshit. They will never be nearly as good as Ninja Gaiden or Castlevania 1-Bloodlines.

The casualization is the prime issue. Newer games have all these garbage crutches for new players, and they're slow and imprecise. Meanwhile, strategy and role playing games are giving you less stats to work with, and less interactions. They're boring "feel good" sims instead or proper D&D simulations.

Modern games are designed so that focus testing idiots can pass them.

While those more simplistic games might be more appealing to people who don't regularly play games, aren't skilled players, or play games for very short amounts of times, these harder difficulties and challenges are satisfying for those who have truly learned the game and mastered the mechanics. You can beat so many modern games on the hardest difficulty without being even remotely close at all to the skill ceiling or optimal play. It's like HLM1 vs. HLM2, after you play the sequel and learn the mechanics and get skilled, the first game just feels like a glorified tutorial, while the sequel is a constant adrenaline rush that challenges you as a player.

I'm not sure what you mean by button masher. If you mean requiring deep knowledge of pathing, mechanics, level design, prioritization, and enemy patterns/tendencies as well as the intense mechanical skill required to implement this as well as being able to react quickly on the fly when things go wrong, then yes, it would be a button masher. But if you think you can press buttons without thinking or knowing exactly what you are doing then you will never stand a chance. You would know this if you played these games.

You don't really have an argument to refute, you just say they are button mashers without knowing anything about them. And then you keep bringing up actual button masher musou games randomly when no one has ever mentioned these.

it looks like it needs some rocket launchers on it's shoulders

Because often there are no recent indies that scratch that particular itch.There were several Dungeon Keeper successors, but AFAIK all of them failed. And all of them are fantasy, while Evil Genius allowed me to be Bondian mastermind.

In addition, old games could have some high-quality cinematics and voice acting, which is even not on every AAA title now. For example, Red Alert 2 or Warcraft 3.

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The main problem with them is that they don't stand out at all other than being flashy with them. Their flashyness also contributes to people playing them with a button mashing attitude. You can't seriously look at the end stages of Nex Machina and think "Yup. This is all strategy" with all that shit they pour on the screen.

>While those more simplistic games might be more appealing to people who don't regularly play games[...]
You typed a lot of words and ultimately said nothing pertaining to the topic. The top indie games aren't even that complicated to begin with. They're all run and gunners, shoot 'em ups, and just your general action-arcade experience. Hollow Knight again being the only exception to this, being the only game that doesn't really fit in with the other games you posted.

>If you mean requiring deep knowledge of pathing, mechanics, level design, prioritization, and enemy patterns/tendencies as well as the intense mechanical skill required to implement this as well as being able to react quickly on the fly when things go wrong,
Literally none of these things are true about the top games you posted though.

>But if you think you can press buttons without thinking or knowing exactly what you are doing then you will never stand a chance. You would know this if you played these games.
But I do, and I did. Then I got bored and refunded most of those games clocking in under 110 minutes, cause I run a timer when I buy new games.

>You don't really have an argument to refute, you just say they are button mashers without knowing anything about them.
You never really refuted most of my original arguments to begin with. You honed in on me saying that pouring a lot of shit on the screen makes it harder to parse information and turned it into a strawman. I've just been indulging you on it so far.

only technically speaking
an intricate oil painting is still going to be more mechanically impressive on an objective scale compared to a statue of a guy jerking off into his mouth
and on a subjective scale, the majority of people will still consider the painting to be better

anything beyond that is a simple money laundering technique used by rich people

*doot*

You're right, indie games are just too damn casualized and easy these days. Here go ahead and pass these then my very skilled friend.

youtube.com/watch?v=8_Z7RtQly1E
youtube.com/watch?v=xYNuenR4abA
youtube.com/watch?v=qXmj7yIyoVM
youtube.com/watch?v=rpRQE-UFAl0
youtube.com/watch?v=Jzk77R7si0I
youtube.com/watch?v=FarUc_Yh_YY
youtube.com/watch?v=rrlivqMBDuY
youtube.com/watch?v=CFCxG13dM4U
youtube.com/watch?v=2gCk4b1giiQ
youtube.com/watch?v=2MBQpPAb8zI

>Indies are basically modern versions of these older games
not always
>better level design
level design depends on whoever made the game, not technology. why should a more recent designer be automatically more talented than an old one?
>sound, hitboxes, physics
what? no. it depends

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>You can't seriously look at the end stages of Nex Machina and think "Yup. This is all strategy" with all that shit they pour on the screen.
Not him but how about you actually play the game or the genre then? Fucking Yea Forums I swear to god. Just to 1cc Nex Machina you will need to be very deliberate in how you move and shoot, what you prioritize and so on, its not "strategy" in the sense of a good turn based game because it's intuitive but all actions are very deliberate and are either planned in advance or decisions made on the spot. You have to concentrate at all times. But a 1cc is very basic, the game truly shines when you start building your human chains which requires planning your route through each arena and timing when you pick up humans, uncover secrets, kill enemies and so on while keeping an eye out for rng (humans walk around randomly, there are unique enemies like disruptor that pop up in a stage randomly). Must bullet hell shoot em ups are like this, they are very methodical and deliberate despite seeming chaotic, sometimes absurdly so.

You are the brainletest.

>The only good games posted are N++, Hollow Knight, Katana Zero, Hotline Miami, and VVVV
>Half of these look like shit
>The other half follow the good design principals of fewer enemies with more importance on where they're placed
>None of these are difficult to anyone that isn't reddit
????

Lmao funny

Nex Machina is one of the most highly praised twin stick shooters of all time. There is five difficulty levels that support players of all skill levels. It is strategy, you just work up to it over a long time. You start on rookie, then experienced, then veteran, then master, then hero. It requires a huge deal of game knowledge and practice and mechanical skills.

>They're all run and gunners, shoot 'em ups, and just your general action-arcade experience. Hollow Knight again being the only exception to this, being the only game that doesn't really fit in with the other games you posted.
You make it very transparent that Hollow Knight is the only game you played/liked. Hollow Knight is not the exception. It has multiple weapons, power-ups, enemy attack patterns, little tricks that you learn over time, etc. just like every other game shown. If you did like Hollow Knight, you should really try out the other games because they are just as good or better.

>Literally none of these things are true about the top games you posted though.
Lol.. again you have not played them. Having the right movement/pathing depending on the enemies and prioritizing certain enemy types and knowing when to use abilities is vital to succeed in the hardest difficulties (although of course you don't really need to optimize in lower difficulties). When you consider optimizing for high scores then it's even more in-depth due to how the human timer works and playing around that combo, and also all the secret levels, disruptors, secret humans, beacons and balancing risk/reward in with these on the fly.

>But I do, and I did. Then I got bored and refunded most of those games clocking in under 110 minutes, cause I run a timer when I buy new games.
Then you guaranteed didn't do any of these. Even the best players in the world would need 10-100+ hours of experience, game knowledge, and practice to complete any of those feats.

>Fucking Yea Forums I swear to god. Just to 1cc Nex Machina you will need to be very deliberate in how you move and shoot, what you prioritize and so on, its not "strategy" in the sense of a good turn based game because it's intuitive but all actions are very deliberate and are either planned in advance or decisions made on the spot. You have to concentrate at all times.
I'll probably never 1cc it or anything "hardcore" like that, but I can do reasonably well enough by just circle strafe + dodge + fire, and I frankly don't care enough about it to get any better because of it's lack of presence pretty much anywhere. Sorry, but the game is only okay. I think I wound up giving it a C+?

Also, you're really puffing out your chest on how "hard" it is. You're overstating it.

I probably have several hundred hours between Factorio and KSP. Not all games are Gone Homo.

>Nex Machina is one of the most highly praised twin stick shooters of all time.
Funny that I never see or hear of it anywhere then.

>You make it very transparent that Hollow Knight is the only game you played/liked
Actually, Hollow Kinght and that game with the purple haired retro-anime chick and the sword are the only games I haven't played. The rest I tried out at a friends house or refunded.

>Lol.. again you have not played them.
Puffing out your chest. See >Then you guaranteed didn't do any of these.
The challenges? No, of course not. Why would I waste my time on extra content of mediocre games?

Anyways, you've really strawmaned this conversation into a discussion of skill level and what not, and failed to address the original points, so I'm just gonna duck out and let you have a fit here. I'm gonna start playing the new hotness that is Astral Chain, which promises to be good and memorable.

Show me a Battle Network indie game that's as good as Battle Network 3/6.

I don't even think its particularly hard to 1cc even on master nor do I care how you feel about the game, what youre saying is just pure bullshit. Doing reasonably well on experienced is normal since it's pretty much an extended tutorial

What about that Touhou one that made the rounds a bit ago?

based Caveman Chad

Play whatever entertains you the most and stop giving a rats ass about what other people think.

It's so funny how people talk big shit then you look at your profile and see they are completely full of shit. Every single thing on that list ranges from very hard to extremely hard to WR.

Lesser enemies is not necessarily "good design principles," just depends on the game style and genre. As players improve, they need new challenges. Unfortunately many devs don't really include these since the amount of players good enough or who will invest enough time to get good enough is too small for it to be worth it.

Ok, so you played through on rookie just brute forcing your way through and think you know the game? LMAO

There is no "overstating" the difficulty, only a handful of people in the world have ever beat hero mode.

>Funny that I never see or hear of it anywhere then.
Because it's a niche game that you need to invest some time into to truly enjoy. It had good reviews and good scores, just didn't sell amazing because most players are casual (not that that's a bad thing necessarily)

Cavebro is vindicated in his belief.
He probably invented the medium, probably has very few equals and is currently the peak of his time.

It's literally a hack of BN3. And it's still not finished, only having about a third the content and tons of glitches, as well as literally not having an ending.

I would not count that as "good as BN3/6" when it's not, and when it's literally just BN3 but unfinished.

Ah. That's a shame, but it makes me glad I decided to avoid playing it.

What if I express myself by having superior technical ability?

God i feel that. I still play original now just with mods.

One day it might be great, but since it's /jp/ that's working on it, there's no telling whether that'll be tomorrow or next decade.

I just want a good BN game

>Give one good reason to play aged, outdated games, over modern indie titles.
Not all old games are actually that outdated in terms of game design compared to newer ones. Hell, some of them are arguably better than what companies are putting out in the current age.

>but since it's /jp/ that's working on it
Confirmed shit forever.

How are indies "modern versions" of old titles? why is this even a comparison?
you should play both

Don't bother. Many good reasons have been given including yours. At this point it's pretty obviously a bait thread

It's actually so hilarious when you think about it. Imagine criticizing one of the best, most difficult, and most complex games in years (Nex Machina) for thinking it is a "shallow button masher" after you beat it on the lowest difficulty. While also unironically thinking a difficult and complex game would be NES garbage like Ninja Gaiden where the only "difficulty" is in cheap trial and error bullshit like insta-kill spikes, birds around insta-kill pits, and obnoxious "gotcha" enemy placement and having to repeat the game from the start just to inflate the hour long game length.

This is the type of absolutely nonsensical bizarro world shit you only see on Yea Forums.

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Stop arguing with Dunkey, you'll just end up with your head up his ass.

The revives tend to lack the same feel. There's less $ dumped into it, so less detail fleshing out the world yielding fewer diversions within the world. They tend to just be shadow copies.
Fell Seal is a perfect example. There's only the (weak) plot, no side missions whatsoever, and no side-stories. The gameplay is an improvement, they did nice things for the job system, but at the end of the day it just falls flat.

Art is about making shit. It doesn’t have to come from an egocentric place like you are implying. The “express yourself” meme is just how nonartists that want to look like they appreciate art justify the existence of art that isn’t strictly photorealistic.

>NES garbage like Ninja Gaiden where the only "difficulty" is in cheap trial and error bullshit like insta-kill spikes, birds around insta-kill pits, and obnoxious "gotcha" enemy placement and having to repeat the game from the start just to inflate the hour long game length.
git gud

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the same reason we don't exclusively eat food dishes that were made up in the last 5 years

LITERAL FOOD ANALOGY

not gonna make it

Newer is not always better.

Exactly the issue, retards like you. That is neither more difficult or well designed than People who played it as a kid with no gaming experience thought it was difficult and a well-designed game that still holds up today and are blinded by nostalgia.