Which expansion was most responsible for ruining WoW?

No tears here :o) happily resubbed and playing classic!

The real pill to swallow is that WoW ruined Blizzard as a whole. It fucked up the development of SC2 and D3 long before Activision entered the picture.

WoD was the moral wound. Legion was the killing blow. BfA was the aftershock.
Declining by the hour

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Wrath was perfectly fine until 3.3.

Cata lacked content which is why MoP got stuffed full of dailies
Dailies in general were incredibly cancerous and BC takes the blame for them

This
It tasted great, but it was laced with poison.

All of them

WoW has always sucked and is only popular because of its internet status as the "gamer" game

It's amazing how the expansion that was the peak wow at launch managed to be the worst by the end of its lifepsan.

Cata is honestly fine now. Its biggest problem was that it deleted the old content, but we have Classic now, so it's no longer an issue. The new version of the world was still fun to play through.

No it wasn't. The only downside of TBC is that it made vanilla zones matter less and the flying being added reducing world pvp, but other than that it improved on matters quite a bit. Raids and gearing progression were kino, and classes had their specs improved without gimping them unlike later WoW expansions. Druids in particular got improved upon, imo.

Why would you Google classic Wow once you are ingame? What a shity attempt to throw some shade

Clear answer is WoD in my opinion. The game at the time of MoP was great with all of the great content and the best class design.

Quite a few of them played a part.
Vanilla's issue was simply lack of experience. It was their first foray into something more than Single Player shit, and was alpha-tested in War3 post-campaign maps. The Building of Orgrimmar with Rexxar and Thrall tested the quest and inventory systems/code for example.

BC did a lot right. It fixed a lot of issues Vanilla had, and added flight, which many of you faggots will argue is the worst thing.

Wrath is where shit starts to hit the fan. Storytelling got better, but difficulty went down quick, and Welfare Epics became a thing thanks to the Argent Tournament. This is where the downhill started, giving everyone aoes and epics.

Cata fixed the MASSIVE problems Azeroth had, piss poor zone design and quest direction issues and cleaned up a lot of old world shit that desperately needed it. But it continued to homogenize classes and Epics were just standard gear now, not a rare bragging right like in Vanilla and BC.

MoP added a fucking april fool's joke as a real feature. Great fapbait, but generic asian theme like billions of MMOs have already done. Class homogenization 200%, talent trees become talent bushes.

WoD just turned the fucking game into Facebook Dailies.

Legion boils down to "HAY GUISE, MEMBER ILLIDAN? MEMBER BC? WE MEMBER! PLEASE COME BACK WE'RE HEMORRAGING PLAYERS!"

BFA is just lazy shit all around and shows the sheer lack of effort in anything beyond storytelling and even that's gotten cheesy and lazy.

Classic is just Legion 2.0 - "HAY GUISE MEMBER VANILLA? WE MEMBER! WELL, WE LOST THE SOURCE, SO WE DOWNLOADED PSERV STUFF AND FIXED IT UP INHOUSE, BUT YEAH"

t. BC Babby.

BC was dog shit, and people started realizing that within a month. I had an active sub from 2005 to 2007, when I sold my account some months after BC launched.

wow was never good.

I think you can trace the biggest fundamental game changes to 3.3 and 4.0

tbc killed wpvp by adding flying mounts
wolk killed human interaction by adding rdf
cata killed the world we knew and made leveling 3 times easier

its a sum of the above really

if you didn't start with classic, you opinion is already worthless. but starting with cata, that's just a whole new level of baby

permanently underage pieces of shit don't get to post

I like how retarded NPCs look past RNG legendaries, Order Hall doubling down, and Titanforging/netherlight crucible bullshit because
>"b-but muh Surumar. good expansion!"
Retards. Legion was WoD 2.0

Besides flying, BC brought most of the better class changes like Druids and Paladins being viable raid tanks. It had a non-cancerous way to form groups with still needing to message people. They made meeting stones summoning stones which was honestly a good choice.

>and people started realizing that within a month
Must be why the population grew so tremendously during BC's lifetime eh?

Stop posting your delusional fantasy

Late wrath was the beginning, then early cata made it a little better, but the mass backlash of people who were used to wrath faceroll loot pinata heroics made them carry on down the path.

To the people who say BC was bad, sure you may not like flying or arena, but the raids were kino, the atmosphere was good and shit was genuinely hard, grinding revered for the key to do heroics, them only dropped 1-3 badges for the gear etc, nothing was like wrath where you just run through a heroic never needed to stop

Flight is bad, but not the worst. Flying consistently, and still with each expansion that allows it after BC, makes the world feel small and inconsequential. Traveling from one side to the other used to be a bigger deal than flying and hitting auto move
>Welfare Epics
>Wrath
They were already called Welfare Epics with TBC Badge Gear.

Whichever one you started playing in

artifact power ruined it for me desu

Pointless shit when the entire expirience was broken.

"hurrrr we balanced classes but city raiding is no longer relevant, world PvP sucks dick, the instances are all shitty, portals in the city make the world smaller than evert, and the end game is now a daily chore."

ruined what part of the game?
tbc ruined the lore and the community by allowing elf trannies into the horde who is afk 80% of the game time, draenei is a whole ugly race based on cool rogue guy but they cant even be rogues
wrath ruined the difficulty and turned the beautiful world into a loading screen simulator

The game was great all the way up until 3.2.

well, Cata began with world and game play changes, but warlords made the future
status qoe. legion was like wrath, fantastic imo. BfA is like a mix between mists and warlords.

Well Wrath is when they pulled most of the good devs and artists to work on the titan project which became overwatch. Its also when Ion was put in charge of raid design and made the stupid trial of the crusader multiple difficulty levels and limited tries mode.

After that each expansion followed the model of "less content but quicket!" Until the year long content drought in MoP when they swapped out all the devs again and replaced them with the diablo 3 reject devs and have Ion full control. At that point he made garrisons and eventually artifact power and did pushed micro transactions out the ass.

It's not over yet though because it's really obvious with the recent class changes that they are trying to get the game ready for mobile. You have classes like arcane mage literally casting only three spells.

I actually don't mind the way they do flying these days, with having it gated until a few patches down the road. I think it'd be even better in the old world if it had some kind of fatigue or timer associated with it.

Wrath was the start with LFD but Cata was responsible for LFR
Ultimately Cata is shittiest

City raiding was never relevant, it was pointless to start with. I can only think of one quest that required you to go into an enemy capital, and that was for the AQ event

Cata was the game’s peak and when the game had the most fun gameplay and content.

This guy gets it. Early (pre-nerf) cata heroics were god tier.

Look at the BC babby try to talk about Vanilla like he played it, and not like he watched YouTubers talk about it.

Each of them killed WoW their own way, but i will go for TBC, since it started that trend.
Outland was garbage, flying killed wpvp, it killed the lore as well.
Only people who liked TBC are big fatass obsessed with raiding.

Class design was also at its peak for raiding. Classes that couldn't shit out dps like warlocks were given buffs to make them worth taking anyway. Shadow priests with mana regen, extra damage, and extra shadow damage. Shaman totems were insane, hunters had true shot aura for marksman, beast cry for beast hunter, or that one for survival which was godly and game because it scaled with agility.

Then wrath came and they went with the "bring the player, not the class!" Design philosophy which homogenized everything. This was a huge problem because the only way to compare the classes was dps now, and they failed to balance the dps for the next decade and a half.

WotLK for trivializing dungeon and raid content partly because of LFD
Cataclysm for ruining the world

Wrath for magefag pandering

>but the raids were kino
There you go. The only fucking pro of TBC. The same drug addicted who killed WoW because they can't stop playing and will eat any shit blizz will throw at them praise the only element of the game which requires to be a fat nerd.

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Cata really did ruin the world. Playing Classic everything is so much more pleasant without all the destruction

The world was already useless since TBC. Stop talking out of your ass.

BC

Legion was nigh-perfect. Best WoW experience today except for patch 4.2

BC casualized dungeons first tho
LFD didn't ruin anything, it's 100% the community that ruined LFD

Wrath of The Lich King

Was sort of crap for endgame when it first came out.

Ulduar massively improved it.

Trials of The Crusader was total garbage.

Icecrown was good but introduced LFD cross-realm system which began killing the social aspect of the game.

So 3.3 WotLK specifically.

WoD and the failure Diablo 3 team being introduced with their corrupting influence and pruning.

Mists of Pandaria was the peak of class design, some had it better than others as far as flavor and spec differentiation (warlocks being the shining star) but every class had it a thousand times better than they have it now.

Pruning killed WoW. Period. If your class fucking sucks to play nothing else in the game matters, and that freefall began with WoD.

Cata was fine except for bullshit PVE gear ruining PVP balance, like Gurthalak single handedly warping Unholy around it since the tentacle damage scaled with mastery or the dozens of overpowered PVE trinkets across the expansion's life.

The worst parts of Wrath, Cata, and MoP like TOC, Dragon Soul, and Siege of Orgrimmar were still way better than anything in WoD-Legion-BFA.

end of wotlk, and in turn, cata.

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Cataclysm.
Ulduar was the last good content.

>BC casualized dungeons

nigga please, do you remember shattered halls heroic? slave pens & steam vault heroic? Arcatraz heroic? they were all hard as balls

Wrath planted the seed, Cata sealed the deal. Wrath dungeons were too easy, Cata release heroics were again challenging, but people cried to much so they got nerfed. The world Revamp was fine. It was needed, I'd even say after BfA they need another one. Not necessarily a full world make-over, but at least a timeline update so a leveling character isn't dealing with four different Warchiefs. LFR Completely ruined the whole raiding experience as encounters were changed to fit the lowest common denominator, Retards, so the mechanics of high difficulty suffered as a whole.

Post Ulduar WotLK

Pandaland the Pandas just seemed really stupid I didn't even give it a chance when I should of. Came back at the end of WoD I loved wod ret so much. Legion ret was such a downgrade but was fast so i sticked around. BFA is pretty meh. I moral is good class design>everything else.

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Of course not, patch 2.4.3 was the only patch of tbc according to wrathbabies and purist vanillatards

Cata
WoD
BfA
Basically the three expansions made by the B team.
>all three had some sort of "modernize the existing systems/world" with remaking the old world, or stat squishes that broke things that didn't need to be broken
>all three had extreme content droughts
>all three had minimal content patches when they finally did come out
>all three did little to introduce meaningful new systems or ideas, and instead focused on cutting content or shoddily taking what was introduced in the previous expansion and barely building on it

Meanwhile let's look at the A team expansions:
second half of wrath
MoP
legion
>introduced new concepts like hard mode/heroic mode, pet battles, brawler's guild, timeless isle type areas, world quests, legionary quest chains/artifact quest chains, mythic+
>content came out on a good schedule
>content that came out was plentiful

If they made more expansions like Wrath, MoP, and Legion, WoW wouldn't have died as fast.

>B team meme
You are so full of shit

Man Ruby Sanctum was such a shitshow patch

Mists of Pandaria arena and RBGs were great, timeless isle and isle of thunder and world bosses were a lot of fun, blue shell ganking people on fliers was a delight, Throne of Thunder was a great patch, it had the best daily/rep system by far and was massively better than cancerous world quests.

>BC
Made old high level ones not matter and added flying.
>Wrath
Dailies, LFG, easy mode dungeons.
>Cata
LFR, and the new world is shit. Asheville has been on fire for like 9 years.
>Mists
Ruined the talent tree
>Warlords
Mobile phone mechanics, got rid of tons of spells. I played affliction lock and it personally made that spec really unfun.
>Legion
Titain forges and the random legendary drops fucked up raiding guilds.
>BFA
Didn't bother playing this one although enemy level scaling in RPGs is always dumb.
>TLDR
Every expansion is too blame.

dunno but MoP was unironically the peak of class design

MOP was the best xpac

Wrath was the beginning of the end but cataclysm was that scene where the car drives right off the cliff

I literally hate all you fags for hating MoP for being a meme expansion, when you didn't even play it.

MoP was probably the most *soul* expansion ever

>great story that showed horde and alliance conflict to a neutral zone
>ToT is still one of the best raids to come out of the game
>that warlock green fire quest

Besides the incredibly long time of Siege (okay that sucked), MoP was their last passion project.

>ruining something that was always shit
wow was always meant to be the most casual thing out there

cata

destroyed zones without replacing them with anything cool
dragon soul was the most pathetic raid
LFR

>bc was so bad people were willing to pay me for my account to play it
Not sure this anecdote is saying what you think it's saying, user

>people who never played vanilla would pay for a BC account

Whoa, that actually reinforces my point.

As Warcraft player I agree, even Warcraft 3 had signs of casualising shit

>that warlock green fire quests

God I loved finishing that shit. The boss was amazing

Pandaren are Samwise's brainchild, all the people who hate on MoP ignore that brewmasters were a tavern unit since wc3 and tauren are already a peace loving bipedal anthropomorphic animal race, except native american instead of oriental

MoP had so much content to do, especially on PVP servers there were tons of reasons to go out and interact and fight over rare mob spawns, direhorns, world bosses, the PVP was fantastic and free of many of Cata's problems, the new battlegrounds like Temple of Kotmogu were fun and novel, the PVE was good, the worldbuilding was great and it wasn't another big bad evil world ending plot but a vacation expansion

Vanilla: Every aspect of the game was designed and paced for Vanilla
TBC: An extension of Vanilla. Introduced flying mounts which were cool at first, but ruined the game long term.
Wrath: Cool theme, but the game went to shit due to Dungeon finders, gear score, easy content, welfare epics for everyone
Cata: Introduced flying mounts to the old world, crossrealms, LFR, etc
Mop: Every class has a million stuns and hp. The leveling experience is the worst it has ever been, as you outlevel the content and can pull 5 mobs at once without being close to dying. The game was a joke at this point, and consisted of standing in the city for 40 min waiting for queues to pop.

The other expansions just further added more qol changes and turned the game to a mess. Hell, in vanilla you could level up along with your professions and actually craft gear you would use. Food, potions, etc. It all mattered.

Cata, nerfing heroics was just a gut punch. I thought they were changing course from wrath only to go right back on it

Vanilla was a massive success
TBC was momentum of that success
WotLK was stagnation
Everything after was a decline
It's clear to anyone with half a brain that the direction they choose was bad and it ruined the game, and The Burning Crusade was the moment it all started to fail.
>Ruined PVP
>Took out Dishonorable Kills
>Introduced that burning garbage fire that is arena
>Casualized raiding, by dropping the amount of players needed from 40 to 25
>Dumb down the difficulty so more people could complete the raids
>Introduced the massive mistake that is flying mounts
>Which in turn ruins World PVP and 90% of the danger to players on PVP server.
>Took out the Rank system from PVP and replaced it with Arena rating.
>Added resilience which completely destroyed the already sketchy balance of the game
>Took away any real difference in faction by giving Paladins and Shamans to either side.
>Wellfare epics
>Dailies
There's no defending it, TBC really was the exact moment the game tipped over the edge and plummeted downhill into shit.

WoW then:

>LFG scholo, doesn't matter if you've not done it before we'll teach you!

WoW after years of zoomerfication(starting from wrath)

>LFG scholo, must have full T3 link kel'thuzard achievement

Don't care about your reddit "soul" memes. Bullshit lore about kung fu pandas, mantis people, MUH MOGU was completely disconnected from the main story. I don't give a flying fuck about this gay shit, it's supposed to be a horde vs alliance story. May as well been any other game at that point

ICC killed WOW

>great story that showed horde and alliance conflict to a neutral zone
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>WoW
>"Story"
Also
>China
>Soul

It was fun which is the entire point of the game, retard.

RTS Purest shutters are the worst. Go back to you 30 viewer "pro-tournaments" meanwhile Dota 2 and WoW have made your genre irrelevant

Wrath was unironically the best expansion

Wrath was shit. The only good part about it was the theme and zones.

If you release an expac designed for raiding, it makes sense to make raiding more inclusive.

alliance vs. horde was always boring and contrived, and has now led directly to the cancer of BfA

Thr Lich King won. WotLK was when the narrative was raped by the delusion that MMO players are heroes.

Burning Crusade started the shit slope. By the time WotLK was released it was going to hell.

reminder that Cata added Vashj'ir, the best zone in the game, and is thus the best expansion

NO NO NO 3D SPACE IS TOO HARD NOOOOO DONT TO UNDERWATER NO THATS BAD I HAVE AN ASTIGMATIIIISM AND AM EASILY DISORIENTED MOOOOM NOOOOOO

Reminder that MMOs are a vehicle for social interaction and no matter how good the content is, it will never be as fun without a constant community.

Whatever expansion killed the feeling of logging onto a server and having a community you'd see over and over again is the expansion that ruined WoW.

WOTLK.

Mechanically it had a massive step up in class design, but it had crappy dungeons and raids outside of Ulduar and was the beginning of welfare epics with fucking tier items on vendors and the LFG tool.

Lore-wise it ruined each and every scourge character bar Kel'thuzad, purely because he was religated to a rehashed Naxx and then mercifully forgotten about, meanwhile Anub was turned into an unwilling servant instead of cool buddycop partner and then we got THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LICH KING.

TBC had problems, but WOTLK was almost nothing but.

Cataclysm

The fuck are you talking about. The narrative was raped since TBC. Even vanilla.
>Dude we are Night Elves who hate magic but will still suck the cocks of some humans we don't know shit about.

The difference in BC Badge gear was that you had to clear BC heroics consistently to gear up.

BC heroics required setup on each pull.

Wrath is both the best expansion and the reason for the decline

Cataclysm’s last patch.

1. Dragon Soul: one of the worst and laziest raids ever.
2. Transmogrification: turned a loot game into a dress-up game, allowing players to display flashy gear from old raids instead of the drab gear that would signal their zero accomplishments.
3. LFR: cheapened raiding by adding a tourist mode that lets people AFK through what’s supposed to be an epic confrontation with the world’s hardest enemies.

Cata was such a mixed bag. Vashj'ir was one of the most interesting and immersive zones in the game, but then Uldum was ruined by pop culture references.
Hyjal was kind of wonky too because the storyline had nothing to do with the Burning Legion. I don't remember if they ever explained why Ragnaros was allied with Deathwing/the Twilight's Hammer after he was enemies with Nefarian in vanilla.

>caring about WoW story

To be fair, you can't pin gearscore on Blizzard.
That shit was started by players using a third party add-on. It got so out of hand that Blizzard just relented and made it a feature in game that they could at least keep track of since faggot min-maxers in almost every guild were doing that already.

I quit and re-questioned my life in Catalcylsm.

>God tier
Legion
>Underrated Tier
Pandaria, Warlords
>Hype Tier
BC, Wrath
>Shit tier
BFA, Cata

they asked him nicely and offered him a giant tree and he said "ok"
must've been the end result of those twilight emissaries in BRD, or just the one note motivation for destruction that old god minions have

based lol

>tfw no vashj'ir water raid

would've been pretty cool if done right, shame they had to scrap so much

Wotlk Gibs
Wod prune

Mop managed to he good for pvp but that was it really. Everything else after wotlk kinda sucked ass. Only expansions I didn't play over 6 months of were legion and bfa though.

Always cata

reminder that the Burning Legion and even the old gods are irrelevant now, and the true villains are just big voidwalkers

>Ruined PVP
it was fine
>Took out Dishonorable Kills
irrelevant feature, if you were trying to climb ranks you were in bgs not in the open world, if you weren't they were of no consequence
>Introduced that burning garbage fire that is arena
arena was fine
>Casualized raiding, by dropping the amount of players needed from 40 to 25
tbc raiding was more difficult and intricate
>Dumb down the difficulty so more people could complete the raids
tbc raiding was more difficult and intricate
>Introduced the massive mistake that is flying mounts
agreed
>Which in turn ruins World PVP and 90% of the danger to players on PVP server.
elemental plateau was frequently a bloodbath as was isle of dailies
>Took out the Rank system from PVP and replaced it with Arena rating.
replaced how much one grinded with a skill based one
>Added resilience which completely destroyed the already sketchy balance of the game
resilience didn't go far enough if anything
>Took away any real difference in faction by giving Paladins and Shamans to either side.
faction specific classes was great flavor but the alliance raiding scene would've gone extinct over night
>Welfare Epics
Agreed, it set us on the road to the welfare expansion
>Dailies
Were fine when originally implemented, which was for irrelevant and optional factions like Ogrila and Skyguard. When they became necessary with shattered sun offense did they become cancer.

>LFD didn't ruin anything, it's 100% the community that ruined LFD

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>ARENA WAS BAD!

yeah so? you didn't HAVE to do it, nobody forced you to do it

WoD, it isn't even a question really. Some people will argue TBC because of flying mounts, introducing the rend of expansions focusing on a new continent for max lvl players instead of developing the rest of the world, ruining lore, dailies, arenas etc. Others will argue Wrath or Cata for massively dumbing down the game.

But in reality, it's WoD that sent WoW into a huge death spiral that it will probably never recover from.

>But muh resilience!

Sorry that you can't effortlessly gangrape people and most fights take longer than 10 seconds now

archeage unchained announced it will release on september 30th. we are going home lads.

Literally all of them (That I played).
>BC:
Flying, Arenas (Both caused the death of world PvP.)
Shared Alliance and Horde Hub (Lessoned the tensions between factions.)
Cross-Realm Battlegrounds. (Removed the sense of community.)
Draenei and Blood Elves (Both Lore-Ruining retconned races that destroyed the vibe of each faction, especially the Horde.)
Daily Quests (Turned the game into a chore/job.)
>Wrath:
Easy everything. (Removed the sense of danger from the world and lessened the sense of reward for completing anything. Made people actively worse at the game, since they didn't need to pay attention or learn anything.)
Welfare Epics. (Devaluation of loot.)
Bring the player not the class design philosophy. (Began the complete destruction of class individuality, removing all weaknesses and flavor.)
LFG. (Removed all travel from the world, turning the entire game into an AFK in cities and queues-fest. As well as removing all need for social interaction and care for/about group mates, since you could just instantly replace them.)
>Cata
I stopped playing WoW the week of its release and never went back, but it obviously changed the entire world. (Literally ruined the world.)

You know, the cross-realm stuff isn't as bad as I was led to believe, now that I read about it. It's based on permanent groups of realms, and they share the same AH, can join the same guilds, etc. it's not like people are temporarily phasing in and out from random realms. So it's almost the same as normal, just with people having their realm name following their character name.
Looks like Yea Forums memed me into hating a feature that's actually a good idea for low population realms. Better than merging them or encouraging people to transfer at least.

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WoW gameplay like any MMO was never great. World building and immersion are what matter.
With TBC, it was gone.

>cross-realm stuff isn't as bad
US was grouped with BR and Latin American servers and battlegroups stopped being a thing, Ragnaros server in particular

WoD easy

WOLTK because making that expansion come earlier about one of the most iconic character of said universe and kill him by the end of it was probably the dumbest decision ever made

you're describing the "Connected Realms" feature which isn't that bad. "Cross-realm zones" are a separate feature which pollutes low pop zones with random players from random realms. these players are temporary and cannot be permanently interacted with. this is the feature that destroyed the game more than anything else

paint 3d is shit

Burning Crusade. It's what took out all of the soul the original game along with ruining PVP by adding arena, taking out the exploration and WPVP by adding Flying, and gimping raids to be easier by dropping the required amount of people to 25 from 40. The only good things it added were Draenei and Heroic Dungeons.

>by dropping the required amount of people to 25 from 40
That made it more exclusive. Shitters you used to carry in mc can't get in raids since there aren't slots for them

TBC and anybody who disagrees is a retard faggot and most likely nigger too.

How so? Subscription went up until they leveled off with Wrath, they were going up for a reason, TBC was the peak of WoW pve mechanics and dungeons. Despite what it did to world pvp and the humans intro of dailies it was still the best overall state WoW was ever in

You can blame them though. They could have easily broke all GS mods and publicly stated that such things were against their design philosophy and direction for the game. Instead they embraced it and even implemented it into the game themselves. That shit turned even the most chill raiders and group leaders into unwavering min-maxfags. GS was insufferable when you were a great player who happened to be slightly undergeared while trying to find a group, because no one cared if you were good or not and they almost always wanted you to have gear WAY above the required/enrty level, like having raid-level gear to do dungeons and shit. It was retarded.

This. Classic is worst of the bunch.

only proper way to kill an addon like gearscore would be to fucking remove armor inspecting which was in the game since vanilla.

when they added LFG in Wrath, it was limited to finding players within the same server, wasn't it?

>massive step up in class design
How so? All the classes were homogenized with shit like tanking niches being removed and bloodlust being spread over multiple classes, etc, it was a step in class design, but a lazy and uninteresting one that made the classes less unique and less interesting.

It’s oddly ironic how people that blame Mist of Pandaria is very similar to how In magic the gathering, the playerbase would blame Kamigawa for ruining competitive play and was the worse set in magics history

. Both were preceded by game changing expansions in the forms of cataclysm/The Mirrodin block and both Kamigawa and MoP were perfectly fine expansions but didn’t and couldn’t undo the damage caused by their predecessors and so people left. They’re also both the initial point where fans of western fantasy got an expansion set in an Asian setting.

Lucky for magic, it’s in a much better state than WoW and has legacy/vintage while WoW Classic only became a thing recently

no. what you think of was added in TBC.

>The only good things it added were Draenei
We have a futa amateur

>Retconned The Broken into ridiculous blue spacegoats (with eastern european accents for some reason) who then joined the Alliance for no good reason
> A good thing
???

literally only faggots who didnt play MoP cry about it because muh pandas.
it was objectively the best expansion by far.

is pretty fucking stupid when you forced into sharding with some larger cancer server full of fags. compete for resources with them. Don't get the benefit of shared auction houses or recruiting them for non pleb raiding

Burning Crusade.

Definitely Cataclysm. It's such a huge difference compared to WoTLK it feels like a different game.

The worst thing is that Gearscore was actually BETTER than what Blizz ended up doing

Blizz decided to just go "OK AVERAGE ITEM LEVEL THERE YOU GO"

Gearscore would take into account your spec's stat priority, your enchants, whether gear was PvP or not, niche chance events (e.g. Nibelung summoning shit) and whatnot - so a character with an average item level of 500 could have a lower gearscore than a character with an average item level of 450

Of course, Blizzard should have nuked the addon from the start and said "If you want to inspect their gear, inspect their fucking gear you lazy ass"

Google searches of wow classic are declining? Ok.

burning crusade

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TBC. Flying mounts, arena, resilience, badges, blood elves, making the entire old world irrelevant. It was all down hill from there.

Draenor and BFA.

Legion was WoW's swan song

no, it was wotlk, tbc lfg was inferior to trade channel and wasn't automated

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>Best WoW experience today
Literally wrong. Legion is just like any expansion past late wotlk - a single player experience with phasing everywhere, raped lore and little to not socialization.

That's different, because it isn't a simple number that any retard could understand. Gear inspection requires more effort, knowledge, and intelligence to decipher and doesn't necessarily lead to the same min-max faggotry that GS does, and did.

Blood Elves should've been the first neutral race (Horde = Blood Elves, Alliance = High Elves)

TBC

no gear. inspection shows you all the itemlevels of the gear people wear.
gearscore is literally only possible because of that.

Unironically Burning Crusade. Flying mounts ruined WoW in so many ways. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

Name a reason why flying is good

TBC literally introduced all the issues people have with modern WoW.
All the expansions are essentially TBC clones.

shitlords of niggeron
>tfw ur 20k cheevos points are worthless and u cant brag about them anymore
cope

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>It was their first foray into something more than Single Player shit
you goddamn retard

you didnt comprehend the post you're responding to

I only ever played it durring Cataclysm and stopped long before Pandaria came out because the moment my friend found out I was playing it he became a massive dickhead who would kill me over and over and constantly harass me trying to get me to switch to Hoard instead of alliance.
and even when I switched to hoard I had to put up with his punk ass max level character powerleveling/babying mine and and sucked all the fun out of the game

and because of him WoW is forever ruined for me

Wotlk. Some say BC but that still had some great zones and Dungeons. Wotlk was the beginning of the end, BC led us to it but Wotlk was the nail in the coffin.

lol, get rekt alliance scum

>have to balance the game around your "1v1 outside of Org m8" tier joke mode
>suddenly every class becomes homogenized as fuck because everyone has to have the same tools for arena

It effected people that didn't even participate

wtf
tbc had fucking garbage zones and all the dungeons were literal hallways or caverns of time CANCER.
tbc killed dungeons harder than any other expansion.

The galaxy brain answer is that every expansion added on to the list of what killed WoW. There were even patches later on in Vanilla that led to it

I loved the Space Goat and Blood Elf zones. They were super diverse and refreshing. I still stand by it, wotlk was a pile of shit. BC at least had redeeming elements

I too loved doing SoO for 8 years. Mists was truly the best expansion brimming with content that rhymed with Beige of Borgimmar

I think Blood Elves should have been neutral NPCs at most. They're supposed to be a nearly extinct faction. Making them playable was retarded. Also, I don't believe the Blood Elves would join the Horde at all from what I know of them from WC3.

They should have been on the alliance. The lore behind them is fucking retarded. So their homeland is destroyed by the scourge right? They then decide to ally with the fucking forsaken????? And Stormwind just never tried to open diplomacy? The Blood Elves aren't fucking stupid, they know Lordaeron was destroyed and they know Stormwind was a smaller power in the Alliance. The Blood Elves should have been waging a war to destroy the Forsaken because the only thing that will happen with the Forsaken is the Forsaken will take over the Plaguelands, they're literally an undead army and faction and the Blood Elves just fought a massive war against the undead.

>Illidan's dudes just get consolidated into the horde/alliance instead of being a third faction
but naga can't wear shoes or ride horses so can't have that

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>kino art
>trash story

Mists and the introduction of cross-realm groups. Destroyed whatever little server community there was left.

Well they can ride horses, but given Bliz is too lazy to fix animations for carrying a rfle or crossbow it's a pipe-dream to think they'd be willing to make special animations for horse-riding with a snake-tail.

being able to kill your own faction on your own realm was amazing too. holy shit Timeless Isle produced so many tears

>MoP
>best class design
>the implementation of the stupid severely dumbed down talent tress that are still in use today
>bet class design
Oh I’m laughin

4.0-4.2 was peak WoW

>lore
As an argument
>little to no socialization
Anything for dungeons that wasn’t m+, and raiding that wasn’t heroic/mythic wasn’t playing the game.
>not knowing what phasing is
Your grips are with sharding

Good post

Patch 2.3 with TBC.
>Guild banks
Removed social obligation to others
>reduced experience requirements to 60
>removal of elites in vanilla

Those things were the lynchpins that caused the cancer of bad wow to fester. By having quicker leveling and emphasis on reaching cap you devalue the journey. And by making it easier, you allow more braindead idiots to reach cap and then when at cap you have to provide content for them to do. And by allowing them to stumble to cap with easy mobs they don’t socialize with other people, which necessitates the existence of LFD, which naturally evolved into LFR via foot in the door technique.

Patch 2.3 is where sowed it its fate.

because it's cool

>Your grips are with sharding
My grips are with anything that makes other characters or mobs disapear. Naming doesn't matter - phasing, sharding, layer, whatever

> Anything for dungeons that wasn’t m+, and raiding that wasn’t heroic/mythic wasn’t playing the game.
What the actual fuck are you saying?

Cata was bad because the story was really week the true down fall has and always will be wod.

Reminder a major wod content patch was pepe the bird, and Twitter in the game

Cataclysm, 100%. Wrath wasnt great but it had a greate zone and didnt fucking ruin questing. MoP picked up a bit because it was quite different, I actually wish they delved more into whole expansions around races and their inclusion and shit, rather than progressing a story that is going nowhere. The war needs to fucking end or something, there is actually a problem now that there is no definative good guy or bad guy faction, one cannot make a move and any that does is questioned then taken back.

Then state it as such. I understood what you meant but it’s important to be accurate with your words. We have a fucking lawyer for game director. You have to play the game of semantics if you are to win the argument.

As for the second part, commenting on the lack of need to socialize with others for content has no merit if you do LFR/LFD. Yes those pieces of “content” are fucking garbage and hurt the game but to say that doing them and not having to socialize with others is being disingenuous. Now if you were able to do m+, rated pvp, and early heroic/progression mythic raiding without having to talk to other people. Then yes that will be real point of concern. You really need to have to talk to people when doing such content. And since those forms of content are the only real forms of content during the current end game parts of the game, that would stand to reason that it would be highly unlikely that you can go without socializing while doing them.

Cata was WoD 0.5.
BFA is WoD 2.0.

TBC was the start of welfare epics

Imagine putting out bait of such low quality.

>ignore the part about heroics, badges, and atmosphere

stop being a faggot

artifact power is pretty comfy rn and it could easily be called levels and just go up by xp and i would even mind, normal levels have been irrelevant since tbc

>linear hallways, welfare loot and shitty neon colors that didnt fit Warcraft at all
fuck off

>hurr welfare loot

did you ignore the part about heroics not being piss easy back then too?

reminder that WoD had 3 raids and the final boss was rehashed from BC

lmao

WoD raiding was not the problem with it.
Raiding was the only thing that was good in that cursed expansion.

Blood elves joined illidan and served literal demons to feed their magic addiction, didn't they?

Trolls can't wear shoes either, they just make them into sexy tail bands or some shit

Putting that aside, how would you view the Emerald Dream as an expansion or bare minimum heavily modified phased version of existing zones? Literally fucking green everywhere.

Imo I don’t care for visuals of zones. Only the flow of how they play out and the efficiency to reach desirable points within them.

Blood elves got ptsd from garithos being a racist nigger during the blood elf wc3 campaign, that's why they wouldn't join alliance. They shouldn't have joined the horde either though, illidan and co. should have formed a third faction as another user mentioned

emerald dream does not offer enough of a hook to sustain a whole expansion.

Shadowlands

WotLK slowly started it but Cataclysm gave the killing blow

>pandas has to be the correct answer
>worse than wrath, cata, even WoD if you consider such a late entry
"No!"

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Holy shit learn how to speak English you retard.

>WoD
>good class design
off yourself asap

They could no longer live their life in solitute after the events of Mt Hyjal so since they had to pick a side anyway, they picked the one that isn't cutting the trees in Ashenvale nor is tainted by the burning legion's blood

well draenor was called the red planet before TBC and northrend before wotlk was 99% ice and snow so they could've done something with the ED, maybe half an expansion with a second continent being something else
the nightmare could've been some balls to the wall freaky shit but we got spiky black and red

True and Blizzard made a good call to not try and force unlike what the druid and furidiots wanted. I just wanted to get the feedback on how it would be visual-wise versus outland.

We “could” see something like that with in 9.0. Shadowlands/Ny’alotha/Thros/Nightmare/Emerald dream being the realms of the next expansion. Either that or another cata with an overworld revamp and added underground zones (grim batol, undermine, azjol-nerub, etc).

>panda defender is a furry
Every time

it woulde been ok as one zone. legion essentially covered how it would be and it was just acceptable.

thing is azeroth is already pretty damn wild. its not like all the places are industrialized that only applies to most cities. even villages are all in the middle of nature. emerald dream wouldnt be all that different overall.

Wrath of the Lich King without a doubt.

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The burning crusade, and it's not even close.

Raising the level cap was one thing. But what really killed WoW was Blizzard committing to a business model designed to milk their "fans" and "whales" at the expense of their core audience. TBC set this in motion. Once Blizzard realized these sad losers would pay a sub on top of buying a new "expansion" of awful content every fucking year, the game had no chance of being good ever again.

I don't think you know what a whale is if you think buying an expansion = whale

he's also a retard who thinks that an expansion is somehow worse value than monthly subscriptions.
you get so little out of staying subbed. an expansion gives you SO MUCH in comparison.

top left

Wotlk brought in the largest amount of kiddies, the dungeon finder, the shitty timegating, and microtransactions.
"People" who claim that Wotlk wasn't responsible for WoWs downfall are simply retards.
Also, Classic has been out for 3 days and is already dead, which is funny to me.

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Wrath

Damn if Classic is already dead I'm 1000% fine with it

WOTLK did the most damage

BC started a lot of problems that down the line became core issues with the game

WOTLK on the other hand cemented core fundemenetal issues with the game, namely multiple versions of the same raid, (10/25 split, normal/heroic) as well as introduced dungeon finder, and worst of all, probably the keystone issue that plagues the game right now, is that no matter how hard you grind end game content, it will be invalidated by welfare gear next patch.

As much as I shat on 1 year of dragon soul and then the start of pandaria every expansion until wod could be redeemed. not fucking wod. I'm pissed that I've missed legion because i was so turned off by wod.

wrath

Cata. They doubled down on the shit that killed wow, so it's the defining expansion where everything went to shit.

BfA redeemed WoD in my eyes because WoD lacked content but there was still fun to be had in each class, now BfA has infinite content but classes play like shit

Wow reached is peak at Wrath, but peaking means it has to go downhill eventually.

I can agree with that. I've kind of enjoyed how my warrior played with the end of mop, but I was totally uninterested in the setting. Now I might want to revisit the game for its setting but everything plays like shit

TBC

Please don't take away my classic. TBC totally murders it. It takes so long to build up and then all gets made irrelevant in TBC, everything you've worked for, 40 man raids, gone. Don't let history repeat itself.

Please.

>pandas has to be the correct answer
Get bent, faggot. MoP was the best expansion and the last time WoW was any good. The correct answer is WoD.

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WoD unironically had the best raids in all of wow's history.

Cataclysm. The game ended with the conclusion of WOTLK, everything after is meaningless fluff. If they make a branch that ends at WOTLK, I might play again.

community was turning to shit towards the end of wotlk, cataclysm was the final nail in the coffin
by the time pandas came nobody cared how good or bad it was because of that, and also "lmao pandas"

TBC is imporved vanilla

None, WoW was always considered casual trash for tasteless normalfaggots.

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End of WOTLK was the best spot hunters were in. They were overpowered at the start of Pandaland, got overnerfed, but were pretty strong halfway through Pandaland through the end of WoD. Lots of really good PVP for me during this time, especially world PVP. This is the only reason these expansions get a pass from me.

>tfw will never get vanilla game with literally any other expansion talents and shit
classic with TBC pre-patch would have been neat

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Thank you for that OC.

This

Retarded child. Flying made the game world flat and boring. It was like a de-facto pause button too. I got really good at knocking faggots off their mounts during Pandaria with my hunter. Aspect of the fox allowed me to use the shell in mid-air :^). Disengage's sprint was also multiplied to ludicrous speeds by the engineering rocket boots.

For me it will be cata with how they childishly ruined a world people loved just to feel important.

Good old Jeff "whoever came up with this sheer fisting of an encounter can go fuck themselves" Kaplan.

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TBC.
>faggotelves ruining the horde playerbase forever
>tranneis making the alliance even more cringe
>resilience split and flying mounts ensured pvp would only ever be a sidegame from here on out
>started the trend of unrepentant hybrid cocksucking which eventually evolved into healers being gods of everything since they're all hybrids
>boring as fuck aesthetic in 9/10 zones
>was the chief reason for the 'leveling clownsuit' meme, quest reward gear even from the same outpost went out of its way to match as little as possible
>heroics debuted meaning you only had to phone it in and only make half of the dungeons
>crafting professions became irreversibly tied to recipes for bind on pickup bullshit items that were only tied to you

Actually, flying doesn't make the world feel small. The world IS small, because modern wow is designed with quest hubs in mind that makes the entire world empty and meaningless.

>all that effort put into cataclysm redesigning the whole fucking world love it or hate it
>end up fucking everything up forever by turning pop culture references, jokes and general memery up to 11 thousand
>all while butchering the gameplay
will never stop being mad

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Wrath. Trial of the Crusader marked the beginning of the end.

Cataclysm had some of the best core gameplay though. The new mechanics added to classes weren't casualized to shit yet. Before the Heroic nerf it was shaping up to be a top 3 easily, but I will give you that several zones were decimated with the leveling quest rework like Redridge, but others were greatly improved like the entire Forsaken level path of Tirisfal -> Silverpine -> Hillsbrad

Streamlined welfare loot, so pretty much BC.

vanilla was a clusterfuck, but thats what made it fun, in BC you just stacked the same 3 stats and won depending purely on if your class was good for that patch or not, and that pretty much became standard starting from BC onward, any deviancy from playing Tigole/Ion's way was met with banhammers and hotfix nerfs

None, the moment WoW truly went down a path of no return was never about an expansion or raid. It was the pre-wrath event that showed Blizzard just how much their playerbase were made up of little bitches.

The pre-wrath event was the first and only event where shit could hit the fan and treat the enemies as more than just loot pinatas, it was where the enemy attacking your home could actually affect you instead of watching some dumb cutscene followed by sharding to an aftermath of a nuked city. You could defend against the invaders and your failure to do so would rob you of essential services of the npcs living there, which was the first attempt to creating PvE that fucking matters.

But no, outside of a minority who thought it was awesome cause it raised the stakes and gave everyone a reason to truly fight instead of hunt we have a bunch of little bitches who couldn't handle not being able to AH/bank/etc at their convenience. We have people who want their MMO of a medieval fantasy to be as streamlined as their reality with zero repercussions.

And with that, Blizzard decided to tune everything into a perfect handholding theme park, even more than it already was. It should have been the event that told Blizzard the players wanted more freedom, more consequence, more variables. Instead we get more restrictions, more segregation, more instances.

And so any chance of WoW truly embodying an MMO died and now you have some glorified theme parks in retail.

Few classes like ret paladin and sub rogue were really fun to play in WoD.

For me, it's cataclysm. Reworking the spec trees was a weird idea that they made multiply worse in MoP. I had fun in MoP but leveling went from kind of fun to a shitty chore of running boring dungeons or frustrating pvp all day. Gone was the class building, the skill buying. there was no reason at all to think about how you were building your character, because it was just level up and get new spells over and over.
End game content was often good, but leveling was just shitty.

>tbc had fucking garbage zones
TBCs zones were the best wow ever had, and the best thing about the entire expansion.

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>loved the event
>everyone I ever talked about the event loved it as well
>removed because apparently "gorillion faggots" complained
what the fuck

WoW was at its best when Ghostcrawler was in charge.

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>Everquest
> Raid instance

Shouldn't you be in school?

Burning Crusade
I'm still mad how they raped the lore with space goats.
Just why.

People hating pandaria made me realize just how stupid wow players are.
Blizzard should have never listed to its players.

no wrath was already down the hill, with the welfare epics and noob friendly raids

I have a lot of thoughts about pandaria. it was the expansion I played the most for some reason. There was a lot to do every day but leveling up wasn't fun and leveling through pandaria on alts was less fun every time.

I just wish they made any race in Pandaria besides the Pandaren themselves playable. Not because I'm on the panda hate-train, but because the Mogu and Klaxxi and even the meme allies in Jade Forest were so much more neat.

WoW was never good

Legion was shit, even worse than BfA, which is saying something.

Some of them sucked ass, like thousand blades or whatever, and it's hard to match the comfy levels of the dwarf areas or the mood of some of the other areas. I did like Nagrand though, even though it was generic as fuck, and mushroomland was fun.

BfA made me realize that WoD was not as bad as I thought it was

Each expansion is fundementally worse then the last

With the one exception being legion, and that wasn't because legion was good, only 7.3 was good, but WOD was so fucking shit, Legion only had to try a little tiny bit to be decent, but M+ was still a terrible addition to the game and has only cemented Ion Hozzikostas's speedrunning esport autismo game deisgn as the only thing to do in the game besides collecting skins for pets and mounts

>start in literally an extension of blasted lands
>move on to blue blasted lands (with mushrooms)
>next Nagrand (pretty good)
>then you either go to tan blasted lands with spikes, purple blasted lands with dalaran force fields all over the place or black blasted lands

But user, Ghostcrawler was just a yes man of bad game design.

>lol their no deamons actully BUT REEAL draenei the othrs dranie weer jsut corrupt ;));)))););))));););)))
>also sargrias corrup them not the oter way aroun ;));)))))));)

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As a Hunter main who has played since vanilla I will NEVER forgive Blizzard for Legion and will NEVER pay them another cent even for pandering to my nostalgia.

Cataclysm's gameplay is pretty much "wotlk but with an extra layer to think about"
MoP is where abilities starting getting pruned hard

The sad thing is this happened with WOW despite tigole already working on the game

I guess he really was hired on as just a QA tester but for some fucking reason was given a designer role for raids after play designing MC in a weekend with all the competent devs

>muh raids muh dungeons
TBC killed the game with this fucking mindset and streamlining.

Cataclysm gave us playable Goblins, therefor it cannot be worst.
That is all.

WotlK
But it mostly happened at the end, then cata went on a dive but it recovered in MoP a bit because of class design but then the devs said lmao watch this, and WoD happened and here we are now in the wild ride all the way down.

Blades Edge was the worst of the bunch, but I still think it's better than 40% of vanilla zones. The good vanilla zones were absolutely great, but people forget how many bland and boring zones there were in vanilla.

WotLK is when they decided the game had to be much easier. Cata is when they fucked up the entire world with cringe linear story quests and ruined server communities with phasing/sharding. The game was pretty much as bad as it would ever get by that point, though WoD (apparently, I wasn't playing obviously) deserves mention for pruning class abilities.

Empowering healers in PvP, starting with resilience, was the biggest mistake. When every PvP encounter takes 10 minutes it's not really fun anymore.

TBC desu.

TBC wasn’t bad, but it set the precedent for all the other bullshit
> baby mode bgs
> 25 mans
> daily quests
> flying mounts (not a bad idea for outlands only but flying in Azeroth is cancer)
> tokens for loot

Yeah, for mages.

Wrong. I played a resto druid in TBC and it was super fun.

Yeah of course it was fun for you. You were the cancer, faggot.

>removed their shit-eating grins and shuffle dance
Monkey's paw, user. Monkey's paw...

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Funny thing is, blizzard was pruning group sizes as early as 1.3 when they capped dungeon sizes to 40 for raids, 15 for BRS, 10 for dungeons, 5 for Dire Maul, then in a later patch they lowered BRS to 10 and all dungeons to 5 mans, and just like BC, 1.3's cap on dungeons actually killed many raid guilds

This. My heart sank when the pre-patch came out and I saw what they had done to my hunter. I was depressed the whole time playing legion. I played the same dwarf hunter since classic, that was the first time I rolled a serious alt, a fucking druid.

>I played the class Druid sucked off the most with special snowflake rules like instant cast flight form that could gather and the only dismount spell in the expansion
Gee, I wonder why

Mages were always god tier, they've been blizzard's pet class since WOW came out.

>People who play healers are the cancer
Hard to imagine being this wrong.

Burning Crusade, because that's when they started changing the game.

PvEfags go and stay go

Healers, from BC onward, have been getting more and more cancerous, now there is no way to counter a half decent healer unless you have 20 people, or the heal dampening starts to tick up.

Healers were terribly designed from BC onward, with resto druids being the biggest faggots

A lot of people give shit to wrath, but I don't really think Wrath was the real culprit. I think Cataclysm was pretty bad, and WoD was the final nail in the coffin. Mists and Legion weren't bad, they were actually fun because you felt powerful the whole way through. BFA was just a facelift on the majority of Legion mechanics, except much worse than the actual legion mechanics.

Hellfire Peninsula is leagues better than Blasted Lands in overall feeling and design.
And if you unronically think Zangramarsh resembles them you're a complete retard and probably autistic aswell.

The Burning Crusade was released at the wrong time, in the wrong order. If Wrath was released first, then they would have had a good segue into the Burning Crusade with Arthas dead that would have made sense and kept things going. It died early, most just rode along with its death spiral and the ensuing cash grabs.

Mists and Legion were only good for one single patch, the rest of the expansion was still shit.

This.

I remember when heroic dungeons came in TBC, they were hard as fuck and one fuck up in CCing or some shit and it's a wipe. Everything started going downhill in Wrath.

TBC was much better than Classic with better classes, better dungeons, better raids, I just wish it wasn't so ugly... Places like Hellfire Ramparts were so dull artistically and in atmosphere.

I tried to spin their shit decision-making for a long time to that point too, I tried to tell myself 'well maybe it isn't so bad, at least it should start overpowered to incentivize people to check it out'.

But no. It wasn't overpowered. It barely fucking functioned because they haughtily ignored hundreds of pages of feedback, not just on the awful mess of its flavor but also on the most basic motherfucking mechanics, being thrown at them since fucking Alpha. And all the good shit that could've gone into it went to Rogues and fucking faggot Demon Hunters. And a raid tier went and passed and they did not a fucking thing about it. And Nighthold came and passed and nothing. That's when it was over for me.

>Cataclysm had some of the best core gameplay
>Cataclysm's gameplay is pretty much "wotlk but with an extra layer to think about"

I'm going to be honest, never played past the first 3-4 months so I shouldn't really talk that much about gameplay, but removing talents was a horrible step in the wrong direction, and the real beginning of dumbing everything down if you ask me.
Yeah, at the end of the day we all picked "the same" talents when it came to efficiency, but it was this attitude that ended up with further fucking with everything down the line, as far as I know at least.
Also, I sure loved me some meme mix-matching talents trees every once in a while, couldn't do that anymore and got me super mad.

They completely broke enhancement shaman as well. Went from the most fun class to the most boring one in a single fucking patch.

TBC dungeons were still shit though
>B-but heroics...

They were shit tier linar bore fests designed for badge farming on speedrun mode, they were shit.

They didn't remove talents until Pandaria, but they did make it so you couldn't start another tree until you got your 31-pointer in the first one you picked which was pretty odd.

Wrath and Legion both opened the floodgates to new levels of AIDS

It did seem retarded to me at the time to go to another fucking planet while Arthas sits in Northrend, brooding, doing who knows what.

Well that's rough for you, but it's not like I'm the one playing modern WoW lmao. TBC design for healers was much healthier than Vanilla, where a healer was some helpless sissy in a dress who couldn't even do solo content. In TBC they were maybe a bit too strong, but actually had interesting and varied gameplay.

underrated high IQ posts

It was really depressing, that was also when I realized the game was dead for me and I decided to quit for good. I stuck through all the shitty ups and downs of my hunter for all those years, but Legion finally outright killed the class which killed my desire to play. I really liked playing my Dwarf hunter, I was pretty good too, earned a reputation for being a sneaky bastard.

Healers were able to counter most classes in vanilla, except rogue 1v1, or a warrior focusing you

Don't be retarded.

Majority of players in classic didn't raid. Fuck off with your obsession of raid.
You are wrong about dungeons.

Every streamlined design choice can trace its beginnings to The Burning Crusade.

In retrospect though, the concept of "expansions" in general is really what killed WoW and it's not even a system that's sustainable now.

Which classes? I played a lock in vanilla and never had the experience of losing to a healer.

>They didn't remove talents until Pandaria
God damn my memory is shittier every passing day, I could swear I recall being turbo-mad because of talents fuckery and it definitively was Cataclysm, or so I thought.

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That's like, your opinion.

Do you disagree on classes as well? It made a lot of specs much more fun to play. No longer would moonkin druid last 3s before their mana was gone.

One of my favorite things to do in Cata/WoD was to fly up to people AFKing in the air, then parachuting down with Aspect of the Fox on to gank them. In WoD this got even better because Fox let you cast the dismount shell item while you were moving too for insta-gibs. Sometimes they were smart and glidered out of it, and I would glider after them in some of the greatest midair battles ever. It was glorious.

Cata

I did a lot of fighting on the walls near the PVP vendors in Pandaria. There was a lot of big world PVP battles all over that continent on my server. The timeless isle was also a good spot to fight because no fucking flying mounts.

In cataclysm they nerfed talent points so you only got 1 every 3 levels and forced you to get your keystone talent, aka the last one, before you could spec into other trees, i.e. you couldn't play sl/sl if that was an option, you were forced to go full affliction or full demonology, pretty much forcing you to play a spec, not a class, pretty much a precursor to MOPs system that was worse then WOTLK or MOP, which is why people defend MOP's terrible system, because its not as bad as cataclysm's forced spec nonsense.

And sadly too late for any Goblin Engineering shenanigans.

Wrath was perfect because of 3.3

3.2 says hi

The expansion system itself was responsible for ruining WoW. They spent years crafting Kalimdor+Azeroth, and released this massive world for players to explore, and loads of people fell in love with that world. Then they made a fatal mistake. They made end game the focus of the game and tied the end game content to the current expansion.

Not only does this render all of their previous work obsolete, but the quality of the game is now locked to the current expansion. This is insanity from a design standpoint! Everytime they release an expansion, they're gambling that the quality will be enough to keep players around. Did you happen to like the last expansion? Well fuck you! The new expansion is out and the older content is now a ghost town.

Expansions themself could be cool. Just the idea to crank out a new expansion every 2 years was damaging and a mistake. I knew everything around MOP would be a big yikes when they announcted that they wanted to do all future expansions in a 1 year, of course it didn't work and they backtracked on that. 4 years for an expansion would be perfect, just make the content patches matter and don't invalidate previous content.

Wrath fucking pissed me off because they created the PERFECT FUCKING MODEL for hardmodes in raid encounters with Ulduar, actually tying them into the boss mechanics themselves and giving you alternative 'clear' conditions, and then they fucking made the laziest excuse of them for Trial of the Crusader which nobody liked, AND GEE GUESS WHICH ONE THEY DECIDED TO USE AS THEIR MODEL FOR THE REST OF THE GAME'S LIFESPAN??

There was this suspended brazier near the horde PVP vendor, on the same structure atop the wall, that gave me a perfect view that was in range of the flightmaster. I could sit up there indefinitely and knock faggots off that wall as they landed. There was one time a warrior wanted to fight me on top of the building. I just knocked his ass to his death and he ragewhispered me, telling me to fight like a real man. I merely said I wasn't interested, as long as he's dead that's all that matters.

One of the reasons why I miss 07scape, RS3 is shit, and OSRS ruined the game by making it slayerscape

Wrath began the decline of quality and introduced the biggest detriments to the game in 3.2.

4.0 and Cata were what killed the game. Everything after that we’re futile attempts at resuscitating it’s corpse. Classic was it’s rebirth.

>Arthas dead
Yea no, fuck off. WoW players shouldn't be able to kill him.
Blizzard wrote themselves into a corner with every expansion ramping up the threat to the point that you the player were killing Gods.
Now the players will most certainly be fighting the old gods and quite possibly the void lords - fighting to the very origin of creation itself.

Its why not every patch is terrible, let alone whole expansions.
Its why the game has moments where it is really fun in MoP and Legion despite being a total shitshow.

mop literally halved the subscriber base in one expansion, and that was when the sub base was actually somewhat big, we're talking like 4 million unsubscriptions.

And what's the difference? instead of pressing some ui button you press some shit in the game. Of course the one you want is more RP and cool but the cost to benefit ratio favors an UI solution. In my opinon, generally there shouldn't be hard modes. Every raid should have say 9 bosses, the first 3 being PUG tier next 3 bad but better than PuG guild tier next 3 average guild tier and so on. Simpler to design and you avoid this mess. I liked how when you saw someone with some head item you know he killed the boss and that boss not the "normal" version of that boss.

It wasn't the expansion problem, people just felt burned out, there is only so much you can keep playing the same game
Basically it went like this:
Classic comes out, everyone likes the game
BC comes out, more of the same stuff, game gets more popular, some people are slightly bored but can still have fun playing
WotLK comes out, same stuff again, people are getting seriously bored and start losing interest
Cata pre-patch is the point of no return, by the end of Wrath most people were extremely bored and started quitting the game regardless of the patch

Yeah, but if each patch didn't invalidate the last, you could play your favorite parts of the game rather then just shit slogging through TOS to keep your ilvl relevant so you don't get benched for antorus

wraith did the most damage by making the game far easier
but cata was really really boring

so either or

don't you wall want to be heroes??

It was cemented that you couldn't kill the Lich King when Bolvar Fordragon had to take the Frozen Throne and wear the Helm of Domination. Arthas was a pawn and a corpse. He can die. Ner'zhul, however, cannot. All that would begin, if Blizzard had more than half a brain cell, would be a cycle of bodies on the Frozen Throne.

I second this.
Legion should have been the end.
The fucking Legion, THE enemy of Azeroth and the whole freaking universe got defeated, that would have been the best time to finish WoW.
Yet alas, greed prevailed and we got served a steaming pile of shit in every aspect.
I wish the absolute worst to everyone who was responsible for BfA. The absolute worst.
Damn right I'm seething.

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For me personally, BfA. I say this because I've played WoW constantly, even throughout WoD and Legion. But BfA is the first time I'm like nope, don't want to play this shit anymore. Quit in April
Overall though I'd say Cataclysm, even though I have good memories from that xpac and enjoyed it. The beginning of the downfall of the talent system, the super-regimented tier release schedule started here, destroyed the old world, etc.

>Also, Classic has been out for 3 days and is already dead, which is funny to me.
God I wish

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That's because retarded mouthbreathers have shit taste and screamed about pandas. Then we got WoD with BC nostalgia pandering and everyone said it'd be the best expansion yet and a return to form and it was fucking trash.

Cataclysm, no matter, I enjoy vanilla again now.

It's weird looking at that picture and knowing I only played for the first 3 eras. It seemed like so much longer. But yeah, I guess around 6 years is right. There's no way I could go back and be 5 expansions behind. The idea is daunting. Also, I hate MMOs now.

To be honest, I burned out as soon as my guild killed KJ mythic. I never did antorus lmao.

The first 2 patches of content was also shit, or are we just going to convienently forget about the daily rep grinds, with one major patch just being another daily rep grind?

Or are we also going to forget about the terrible state PVP was in with infinite stuns and one sided fights due to PVP power being the most powerful PVP stat and it also being tied to glad ranking.

Or the fact that everyone gets one welfare legendaries just made it so that if your alt didn't have them they couldn't get into any groups or raids outside of fucking LFR, meaning you were stuck in LFR limbo until RNG was kind enough to drop enough mats for you to get your fucking cloak, mind you that these mats were on a weekly time gate to boot?

>Druids and Paladins being viable raid tanks

I fucking loved my bear tank. Bears were so good with pvp off pieces for tanking

I will never not be mad about the LELGENDARIES FOR ALL model, a good amount in part because Hunters were finally up to bat to get a mega thundergun or something sick after having the worst Legendary in the game half-heartedly plopped on their laps in TBC.

Cataclysm shot it in the head but Wrath is what kicked it off.

Druids were fine in Vanilla though. Most people might have not known it then, but it was the case.

TBC
While hailed as the best expac by many people, it's the one that introduced flying, resilience, blood elves aka the pretty horde class which they've flat out admitted to adding to get more people to play horde, draenei aka the reason 90% of wow porn exists (most of which is futa, what's up with that), and heroics.

>quit at cataclysm
>hear new expansion coming up
>fell for the "lmao pandas" meme, so pass that shit
>wod showed up, no interest
>legion came up, ignore at first but subbed mid expansion
>level new character from the ground up
>get to pandaland areas
>mfw
will never fall for memes again

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You can off tank some stuff, you can do dungeons fine, but no one is taking Druid as the main tank or off tank in harder encounters. As far as dungeons go, Shamans and even Hunter pets do fine too.

You killed the Lich King. The fact that some dude decided to become the nu Lich King after that didn't change shit.
>Arthas was a pawn and a corpse
He was the MC of Wc3 and possibly the greatest character of the franchise.
>muh corps who btfo anyone on its path while making fun of them.
And Ner'zhul died for the record. In a fucking book.

bfa is not experiencing any content droight tho.

Druids are actually superior off-tanks to just stacking Warriors in raids, they do the best threat on all tiers, they do WAY more damage when they aren't on boss focus, they let you gear your tanks faster because they're not fighting over every drop, and they are better for fights with a lot of unmitigatable damage due to larger health pools.

In fact, the hard numbers state that they are on par if not better than Warriors for main tanking in Tier 1 content if you're Alliance specifically due to NE racials and Warriors not really taking off until they start getting BWL geared (which is a bit of a drought for Ferals).

>25 people
>a raid
a congregation at best. BC is a joke

All of the design elements that ruined WoW came into existence during vanilla. The expacs themselves were just manifestations of the progressive content mill philosophy that was established when AQ40 was made as another tier beyond BWL despite only a tiny fraction of the playerbase having ever even set foot in BWL. In that regard, BC would be the expac most responsible because it showed the clear intent to negate the existence of all previous content with the increase in level cap and general powercreep.

AQ40 and Naxx should have been at the same tier as BWL with BC introducing new lvl 58-60 zones, new lvl 60 5mans harder than the original content, and raids ranging from the tier 2 to a new tier 3.

Vertical content progression instead of lateral content proliferation is what ruined WoW. They even had a few instances of getting it right, such as the dungeon 1.5 set upgrade quests, ZG, and AQ20. Linearity was the single biggest problem for WoW and it showed in everything from the content progression itself to the complete lack of item diversity.

The current season weapons were god like in pve too. So if you wanted to minmax the living shit out in the game, you had to play arena

People here have just the stupidest fucking opinions on everything.

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>BWL
>Drought for ferals
>When it has taut dragonhide and blessed bulwark

I never understood your first point, I loved Dragon soul design, fighting a top a gargantuan dragon was fucking amazing.

Basado

I'm not saying they don't get upgrades, there just aren't a ton and they aren't nearly as major gear milestones as getting the very powerful Wrath gear or Lifegiving Gem

Flight of Deathwing was alright, and it made sense. Madness of Deathwing on the other hand was not a good fight to end the raid, and the expansion, on. I feel like we could have also had one more fight with him since they bothered to give Deathwing a humanoid form, and from what I remember, only saw it once in a questline in the Twilight Highlands and that was it.
The rest of Dragon Soul was still shit though.

WOTLK.

Dungeon finder wast he moment it stopped being an MMO. It was all down hill from there.

>We're introducing playable goblins what kind of features should we give them..?
>I KNOW JUST SHOVE BONES AND TRIBAL SHIT ALL OVER THEIR FACE CAUSE NOTHING SAYS GOBLIN LIKE TRIBAL HORSE SHIT RIGHT

I know in my heart christie golden had a hand in this

Expansions killed wow
Raising the level cap, adding new areas and new races ruined wow

they use the humanoid deathchin model in a quest in the badlands where drunks tell you about a mesa he destroyed

Cataclysm. Easy.

tbc. introduced the irrelevancy of everything you'd ever done by just wiping the slate clean and bumping everyones numbers up hugely and starting over. which was the formula every expansion thereafter used. dungeons made more linear. introduction of daily quest grind time gated bullshit.

wotlk didn't do anything tbc didn't do besides add lfg, it just did it harder than tbc did, tbc started most of their trends.

vanilla was the one that ruined the mmo genre

>AQ40 and Naxx should have been at the same tier as BWL with BC
>hurr durr lets just make all our raids the same tier so nobody bothers doing them or we run out iterations of the exact same strength of gear we can give them from it
are you dense?

How can people hate TBC when it introduced the best race of WoW?

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honestly this. Its absolutely insulting that naxx gear was immediately replaced by some shitty greens you get for killing hellboars. How it shouldve been was that the mobs would absolutely annihilate you if you were fresh 60. Shitters would have to group up

hush tranny

Legion was legitimately a good expansion that suffered from the fact that WoW at its core was already way fucked. Everything bad about Legion was a result of past mistakes spilling over and the game being unable to stand up to its own weight.

Blizzard took the wrong lesson from Legion though and continued everything bad there into BFA while abandoning everything good it did.

This is why you never listen to fans. So many are brianlet Tolkein fantasybabbys with no sense of wonderment or creativity.
They just want muh orc muh elf because they're fucking stupid. Well they got it. In spades. Oh, look! It's shit: Like your taste.

>RNG legendaries
>even MORE pruning, then turning around and giving it back behind a grind in artifact weapons
>the absolute self-fellatio its class designers gave each other ignoring crucial feedback on fundamentally broken specs and classes
>hard timegated content rendered meaningless by artifact knowledge catchups
>professions were almost universally dogshit and unfun to progress in, engineering and alchemy especially
>hahahahahaha elf-only hero class despite massive elf-related population issues on horde
Legion was shit through and through. Pretty to look at, but shit.

You are giving Blizzard way too much credit. They killed Ner'zhul off completely in one of their shitty tie in books, which is why the Lich King in Wrath is purely about Arthas and Ner'zhul is barely mentioned.

You can never justify RNG loot, the origins of modern titanforging, and order halls.
Never.
Troll or Retarded. Pick one.

I only played classic, maxed out a troll shaman. I read about TBC while sounded cool I didnt like the idea of flying mounts and battlegrounds felt like the wrong way to since it didnt encourage world pvp.

I dropped wow after classic, so glad I did after the garbage it became. It's funny to see it go full circle and fags talking which trash tasted better.

MoP could've been the greatest mmo expansion of all time and I still wouldn't play it because it was still blatant chinese pandering

TBC added flying which ruined WPVP forever. Wrath was the start of casualization and is most responsible for the downfall. Cata cemented it as a finale made even more poetic with the destruction of many classic zones.

Tbc. Flying mounts. Sure, things like lfg or crossrealm might be worse, but it was like stabbing dude with knife in his guts already.

>OH YESSA DIS IS LITALLY ME

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MoP really was a pretty good xpac all things considered. Made worse by the fact so many people only argument on why they dont like it is
>Silly panda bad

Mop was peak class design after the fuckfest that was cata and the bigger fuckfest that was WOD with its ability pruning, Most classes were fun as fuck and unique and you had a lot of abilities and fun meme builds that you can do but then came the ability pruning which took a massive dump over the utility of each class and turned them into tank/heal/dps bots with no utility whatsoever (like nerfing warlock healthstones making them worse than potions, removing CC spells that some dps/tank specs had like chains of ice for blood dk etc)

I will forever love and defend mop against the retards who's only criticism is DUDE PANDAS WACKEY LOL as if wow's lore is anything but pants on head retarded ever since wotlk.

The only reason they would ever come close to "running out of iterations" of gear is because their item design philosophy was utterly garbage. It would have been far more interesting if the raid sets were comparatively strong, but had differing niches based on the set bonuses and stat distribution rather than each set simply being stronger than the last.
>nobody bothers doing them
The completionists would do them no matter what just to complete them. The world first hunters would still be hunting the firsts. Most everyone else would want to do them to experience the content they are paying to have access to. This is especially true if the game designers weren't dogshit retards who could actually come up with variation in itemization that would tempt players to go after certain specific items because they fit their playstyles/builds rather than everyone wanting the same BiS item from the same place for their identical cookie cutter characters.

Pandaria came before WoD and started the prune though. Cata's core class gameplay was better, but nothing else was.

The last patch in wrath. As much as I wanna say cata it all started in wrath

big true over here

The end of Wrath was absolute dogshit and Cata kept the dogshit train rolling after everyone realized that the community had essentially fucking died because it was so easy to do everything yourself. MoP had some good shit and could have been a new great starting point, but then we had the colossal disaster that was WoD and it's just kept going down. There is no one expansion that ruined it. It was just a storm of bad decisions, one after the other, and anyone with vision either getting fired, leaving, or going to another team.

WotLK was literally the first expansion to actually have difficult raids, though. Vanilla's difficulty was purely logistical, as we'll see when classicbros make Naxx look like a fucking joke. TBC struggled with challenging mechanics and had to focus on overtuning as a solution, as infamously seen in Sunwell where a certain encounter was literally designed to be impossible until it was nerfed, not because of challenging mechanics but tuning. WotLK started out as a joke but Ulduar's "hardmodes" were outright the most challenging raid encounters the game had seen, and only got harder. Heroic ToC and ICC were more difficult than anything seen in vanilla and TBC and if you disagree you likely haven't been raiding seriously for WoW's duration. Since WotLK raiding has mostly gotten slowly more difficult and mostly flatlined around MoP, with difficulty being pretty consistent apart from some infamous spikes throughout the expansions (Imperator Mar'gok in WoD, for example)

I actually like the idea, user. Unfortunatly it would be much more work to do instead of
>here new items, x% more stats!
>by the way, we took half of your abilities
Also, i dont remember when exacly every class became "whack-a-proc", but fuck it too.

Getting to play as a Mogu would’ve been pretty nice to go along with panda’s actually. Idk about playing as the bug folk though.

Is that not possible because they didn’t make Tolvir’s playable characters or what?

BC made just about every spec viable if played right which was desperately needed.
It also rewarded time and effort over lucky RNG which was a pain in Vanilla. We would get shaman gear during alliance MC runs at times and during Onyxia kills. Was irritating. The Tier drops should of just been in BC should of just been a token for any piece of tier set to completely cut down on RNG but it was a massive improvement.
Raids were the best in the game IMO though WOTLK was fun if an easy faceroll.
Flying was fun and I enjoyed it but it def killed world pvp. Being as I was on a PVE server I didnt notice it as much though.
The world pvp items were fun.

DKs were an interesting idea but terrible in practice. You could be in a party with some jackass and get attacked by a vendor only to have to kill him and fuck you score.
Was one of those ideas that might sound good in theory but is not when put into play which is fine you just remove it.

Degenerate proc shit started as early as vanilla. Clearcasting is a good example. You could react to it proccing by using a higher cost spell that you might otherwise skip, but the proc was essentially random, that is, there was no way to set it up other than spamming low cast time spells. The gameplay-centric route is obviously to make it so that each cast builds up to clearcasting by a discrete amount.

Wrath was the downfall.

best post.

Until you hit T4-5 Heroics were hard. With some being a pain even past it if you weren't careful.
Magisters terrace was still hard as fuck with no CC. As a ret pally it was a massive pain to clear.

this