The only requirement something needs to be a game is to have a failure state. Considering that many VNs have bad endings, this means that they have failure states, meaning that they are games. Sure, kinetic VNs aren't games, because you literally cannot get bad endings in them, but that doesn't mean you can just write off the entire genre as "not games".
Why aren't VNs considered games?
Dominic Miller
Other urls found in this thread:
en.m.wikipedia.org
en.m.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
Daniel Wood
why is Yea Forums so desperate to argue VNs are games whilst also arguing games like TLOU and GOW are movies?
Brody Garcia
they're garbo
Tyler Jackson
But they are games, they are listed as games and playable in gaming platforms. Why do you care so much about what literal whos here tells you?
Evan Long
>V is one person
Jaxon Phillips
correct.
Hunter Roberts
They're not movies, they're movie-games. They're games by definition alone, but they only use gameplay to gain the attention of the AAA audience, as their stories alone cannot carry them to record-breaking sales heights.
Meanwhile, VNs don't care about mass-market appeal, and instead of diluting their story with blanding third-person shooting segments, they deliver their story entirely on its own, no gameplay filler needed.
Jaxson Collins
VNs are their own thing. It's not an insult to say they're not games because unlike the things mentioned they're not even trying to be games or to market themselves as such.
Jose Evans
because one of those statements has to be true yet Yea Forums does not want accept either of them to be true
either choices + interactivity = gameplay therefor VNs are games or the fact that an interactive medium is not necessarily a game just because it has gameplay and game mechanics
for the past few decades the entire definition of what a game is has been stripped down from "rules, winning and losing conditions" to "if it has game mechanics it's a game"
if you were to accept that game mechanics together with a story are not enough to define something as a game, as in you need actual wining and losing conditions, then you start going down the rabbit hole of "technically Red Dead Redemption and GTA aren't games but interactive fiction that exists within a simulated environment"
the logic has been spectacularly twisted by developers who want to legitimize games as art similar to literature and publishers that want to appeal to more casual audiences that can digest more simple gameplay by turning "the game is finished because you won/lost" to "you won because you finished the game"
Hudson Sanders
Cause Choose Your Own Adventure books exists.
Joshua Stewart
Its in the name, its a VISUAL NOVEL, it'd be like arguing why animated comics are video games. There is no central mechanic or interaction that a player has besides binary choosing of different branches. Making them the equivalent of a choose your own adventure book with pictures. Reading a basically linear piece of fiction with no other interaction beyond that does not make a game. You can lose at plenty of things that aren't video games, like your worthless life.
Charles Mitchell
if media requires input to advance it is a game
Yea Forums is just seething
Austin Foster
>have to press start on the vcr
>wtf movies are games!?1
Jaxson Lee
>if the media...
>have to press start on the """""vcr"""""
retard
Landon Carter
What do books have to do with anything?
Gabriel Myers
There are actually VCR games out there.
Levi Harris
Because Yea Forums is full of underage autismos who can't stand people who like things they don't
Joshua Stewart
Same reason why tlou isn't
Mason Harris
By your retarded rules, Black Mirror Bandersnatch is a videogame.
Chase Howard
>have to press start on the keyboard to start a game
>keyboard is a peripheral but still controls the media
wtf?
Noah Mitchell
Gameplay most likely. Why is it called visual novel?
Nathaniel King
because Yea Forums is full of west cuck normalfags
planescape torment is a VN too, the combat is faceroll braindead easy
Caleb Lee
So if that same movie is on DVD and it includes a menu, then it becomes a game.
Julian Moore
no
because the menu ist not the game/movie/media, you nimrod
Benjamin Adams
>The only requirement something needs to be a game is to have a failure state.
You're retarded
Aiden Hughes
thats kinda cringe bro
John Perez
A bad ending is not a failure state. A failure state is something that happens mid-game and stops you from progressing unless you reload and try again.
Lincoln Hall
is If My Heart Had Wings worth playing?
Carter Cook
>The only requirement something needs to be a game is to have a failure state
Are point-and-click games not games, then? Most of them don’t have a failure state.
Landon Price
why did the blonde girl turn into flowers?
Asher Martin
>The only requirement something needs to be a game is to have a failure state
so as an example, half life 1 wouldn't be a game if you couldn't die? i don't understand that logic
Jason Mitchell
what gemu?
Kayden Nelson
The only good porn games are Lost Life and Degrees of Lewdity.
Luis Rogers
If you can't spam guns and build walls its not a game to zoomers
Jace Garcia
Because they are games that have a lot of words like a novel and are visual
Joseph Cooper
they're more like novels than games desu senpai
Ryder Johnson
But do they have gameplay? And actually interaction where you win or lose not just clicking and getting a different option/ ending.
Jordan Ortiz
>Degrees of Lewdity.
Goddamn this game is fucking ass
I cant believe I just saw someone say that it was good let alone the only good out of two
Jayden Williams
>instead of diluting their story with blanding third-person shooting segments
VNs are worse in that regard because they dilute their stories with go-nowhere bullshit like Fate/Stay and its slice of life moments that have really nothing to do with the main story at hand and drag on way too long. at that point you're bored and waiting for the story to progress whie you read about Shirou's daily boring life and interactions with his thots whilst having nothing to do with the main topic at hand. at least games like GOW give you something to be occupied between story segments.
I played "if my heart had wings" and it was a lot of boring go-nowhere bullshit with very little say in what happens beyond choosing individual girls. though if i had to choose a VN that gets right to the point (in this case romance/relationships in a daily life setting) with very little filler id say School Days is a great example and has lots of interactivity as you watch(in movie format hey, an actual "movie game") things play out. it feels a lot like VNs are just made by people who wanted to be a good book writer but had to fall back on a community with much lower standards.
Personally i don't think so because it will probably bore you out of your fucking mind with its daily mundane slogs but if you like very slow paced slice of life stuff you might find it comfy.
Caleb Nelson
are ebooks games?
Levi Gonzalez
Choices are gameplay and interaction
Christopher Green
>plotnigs
Ewww
Levi Collins
shit taste tbqhfam (to be quite honest, family)
Chase Hernandez
No one can actually define videogame, if it was just a game you can win or lose with a visual interface then something like video poker would count as a videogame, yet I've never heard anyone consider them one.
Juan Lopez
Damn I always knew calculators were video games
John Rogers
>Bandersnatch is a video game
Nathan Scott
en.m.wikipedia.org
>Black Mirror: Bandersnatchis a 2018interactive film
en.m.wikipedia.org
>Aninteractive film, also known as aninteractive movieormovie game, is avideo game
Dominic Miller
if fucking your train loli can't be a video game, what good are video games for?
Gabriel Gomez
>interactive film
>film
Lucas Anderson
ahh, goddamnit that is a cute train
Easton Ross
Instead of arguing about vns why dont you guys go play vns desu
What ya guys reading right now? Any vns you want to talk about, or any recommendations you want or want to give?
Ive been reading Majikoi since i was late to the vn party and havent gotten to it till now
Ethan Walker
Man i just realized i read none of the starter/recommended shit (except fate) but everything around and in between. is Higurashi worth reading if i'm already spoiled by the anime i watched first?
Eli Wright
Just started Utawarerumono: Mask of Deception. I'm not that much into it, yet. There was some funny moments in the beginning I audibly laughed to, but Kuon seems annoying and a lot of the game feels retreading of Utawarerumono (2002) so far. Atleast they introduced some new characters already.
Jaxon Hughes
2 days ago i've read that short one where the guy finds some human insect hybrid near his house and ends up fucking it, butterfly something it was called
i finished higurashi chapter 1 some time ago and have been meaning to start the 2nd one but i can't seem to get around to it
kind of interested in muv luv but unless i buy it i'll probably have to change my system locale to japanese which i don't want to do
i haven't watched the anime but they probably cut some stuff so it might be worth reading
Ryan Richardson
too smol
talk to me again in 5 years
Samuel Murphy
Like most vn adaptations, the anime cut out a good chunk so its worth reading still.
muv luv is a trip if you have the patience for it. Ive never read anything, vn, book, or otherwise, that can live up to the payoff of the muv luv train once it gets rolling. You'll have to change your system locale if you dont buy from steam or whoever else offers it. You do miss the h-scenes but they suck anyway and are just shoehorned in at the end of each girl's route.
But i cannot recommend muv luv enough, it'll take a good 20 hours to get into the GOOD STUFF and another 20-30 hours after that for the REALLY GOOD STUFF, but its worth it.
Levi Perez
>>V is one person
Legitimately wouldn't surprise me.
Jace Jones
>buying books vs getting viruses from books AND having to change my system locale
ehhhhhhhh
Jayden Campbell
I got off his wild ride very recently
Brody Richardson
whatever gets ya to play it
dang, whats this from and how was it. I love dementia/psychological stories
Hudson Watson
she has two alternate bodies, one smol and one human sized but still flat
John Lee
Wonderful everyday.
I liked it a lot and I'm a sucker for those psychological type of stories too. You'll certainly love the story it tells from the various perspectives given in the game. If you read through all of it you'd probably be tempted to read it again just to see all the stuff they put in that foreshadows future revelations/events
James Rodriguez
sweet thanks
ill definitely have to check it out
Jaxon Wright
No problem m8
Isaac Brooks
"Failure state" can be basically anything outside of ideal gameplay if you abstract it enough.
A piece of media needs more than just any given failure state to be considered a video game.
Ryan Murphy
>The only requirement something needs to be a game is to have a failure state
Wrong. "Video game" really is as well defined as "RPG", and trying to sum it up in one sentence (that's also completely false) is just about what I'd expect from a VNigger.
Let's be honest, you just want an excuse to discuss some other shit you already do on a board you already post on. Oh, and post porn. Can't forget porn.
There's no gameplay, fucking gachashit has more gameplay, and it's considered industry's cancer by non-retards.
They really would be more suited for Yea Forums than Yea Forums, pretty much the same experience, while people here want to PLAY some video games. Or at least I hope they still do. Some of them. Maybe.
Connor Allen
>while people here want to PLAY some video games. Or at least I hope they still do. Some of them. Maybe.
You do know youre on Yea Forums right? We dont play games anymore, just endlessly argue semantics until we're too tired to do anything else besides watch someone play the games for us. Then we come back the next day energized and ready to express our opinion on the newest game that we never played
oh and make more smash threads. endless endless endless fucking smash threads