What killed the traditional RPG?

Fucking retard you don't even know the meaning of the words you are using.

Videogames being made to sell and not to be played and enjoyed. The market going super mainstream and aiming at the lowest common denominator, the kind of a biological unit that lacks abstract thought and critical thinking. Videogames have been making more than music and cinema combined since around 2012.

JRPGs because western RPGs wanted to be just like them. Shit like Baldur's Gate was the beginning of the end.

You might be confusing something here. It's the JRPG's wanted to be like WRPG's, it's why the Japanese loved Wizardry so much.

they suck

why are we pretending like crpg's were ever hardcore?
they were never particularly difficult to begin with

Casuals, normalfags, women, the list goes on.
The vast majority of developers are also to blame for not trying different things instead of the same tired medieval/fantasy shit

Baldur's gate has multiple books worth of dialogue. No retarded teenager raised on fortnite and youtube could be able to fully enjoy it. Sorry zoomy
It's hardcore as far as story goes, without being a literal visual novel. In terms of pure gameplay cassic roguelikes would be the most hardcore rpgs I guess.

D&D games are pretty hard if not familiar with them, but it feels like they can be "solved" easily and looking up guides trivialize it.

Vogel?

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Zoomers who never played them. Its funny, Fortnite currently is way harder than old arena shooters, RTS or crpg and yet it gets shit on. Same retards praise older games for their ""difficulty"" though

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Fuck dragons. I hate them I will destroy them I will turn them into sopa de macaco uma delicia.

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Roguelikes are not rpg's though, there's zero roleplaying aspects involved in them as the character you build is the one you believe will survive the dungeon best and nothing else

D&D games are not hard, many of them just do a piss-poor job of explaining their mechanics to the player

the isometric perspective is dated and clunky

>Roguelikes are not rpg's though
They are. You are roleplaying a character going through a dungeon. There is minimal story, but that is actually beneficial to he roleplaying aspect of it depending on your point of view. The story is what you make of it, and what few bits were left there by the devs for you to piece together.

Also, I would consider shit like Diablo to be closer to a classic roguelike than what people now call "roguelikes", which is just any game with permadeath and procedural anything.

Nothing, if you put out a similar quality game with similar production values, I'm sure it'd do similar returns.
What "killed" these niche genres is just that they don't get the comparative backing of big companies since they don't get all of the money, and while indies make valiant stabs their ambition more often than not outstrips their means.

Still, even with all the shitposting and cynicism and criticism that the new "revival" trend of crpgs has copped, most of it completely deservedly, they are half-decent efforts and they don't completely flop.

money

This. Main difficulty comes from player learning the mechanics over time and fucking up his build which makes enemies harder than they really are. I mean if you looked up and planned things beforehand you would not have any issues with CRPGs or DnD games.

The lack of respec and the fact that not knowing mechanics really fucks up your shit long term even if you understood em mid game. Sometimes certain builds just fall off the cliff. Its all artificial difficulty based on gathering information and not on how you use it

Works fine for Fallout and Underrail

They evolved though. I'd pick KOTOR over BG any day.

The popularization of JRPGs and their watered down, casualized piece of shit gameplay.

Diablo is not and never has been a god damn roguelike
Sure people who call something like say, FTL a roguelike are wrong, but you're equally wrong
And talking about so called "story", Roguelikes, unlike RPG's, do not need a story.
Rogue didn't need one after all

not to mention that several build options are intentional traps, but the games don't give you say, a feat preview option to plan out your build

honestly this is pretty much the definition of fake difficulty

Every other rpg genre that is more fun.

>Diablo is not and never has been a god damn roguelike
It's literally a moria clone.
>Rogue didn't need one after all
Neither did the original Zelda, but people still associate it with the story because its sequels were story heavy. The original Diablo had the feeling of a roguelike, it just had a bit more of a story than Moria. Sure, its mechanics were far enough removed from Rogue that you can't call it a "roguelike" but a true roguelike would work with the type of story Diablo had.

>Roguelikes, unlike RPG's, do not need a story.
"Go down the hole and get the amulet of Yendor" is a vague take on "Go down the hole and defeat the evil wizard Werdna and get his amulet", which is all you got for a plot in Wizardry.

It doesn't counter your argument that Roguelikes don't need a story, but rpgs don't really need one either. It's only recently that the world decided that the gameplay was so shit that the only reason that anyone played these games was because of the plot, when honestly dungeon-crawling scenarios were fun for their own sake.
Until they very rapidly stopped being fun.
Rogue is more fair than a bunch of those fucking dungeon crawlers.

Them sucking was a big factor.

As your list indicates.

These anons nailed it. "Roguelikes" have taken over this niche in the market because permadeath and procedurally-generated whatever goads players into >It's only recently that the world decided that the gameplay was so shit that the only reason that anyone played these games was because of the plot

What? How the fuck are you defining "recently"? 25 years ago?

I mean sure but tolerable doesn't mean good. Like if there's a single person who wishes New Vegas was isometric i'd shit my pants.

The rebirth of the golden age was stillborn user.
Even Obsidian has grown up and moved on. It may be too little too late.

bad combat systems

one of the issues with calling Diablo a roguelike is that it also invites people to say Diablo II is a roguelike, which I think we can all agree, is fucktarded

Romances.
Romances killed the genre.

>mfw Death spell actually works on the dragon and it dies an anticlimactic death

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The games people enjoy playing sell though.

> it also invites people to say Diablo II is a roguelike
It's much more removed from the formula than the first one, yes.

gamers started to demand voice acting and high-end graphics, which severely reduced the possible scope of rpg games.

We aren't talking about jrpgs.

Zoomers and s-oy boys

I have some bad news for you

That's fucking stupid. You can find plenty of games w/o romance. And those that do have it, usually relegate it to a half-baked optional side mechanic.

>Like if there's a single person who wishes New Vegas was isometric i'd shit my pants.
Obviously no one would wish that a first person shooter would be isometric if you wanted a first person shooter. But I liked the isometric gameplay of the first two a lot and would definitely play another one.

The only reason I like to say Diablo is a roguelike is because fucktards started calling anything a roguelike after FTL was called that, and get confused with the concept of Diablo being closer to a it because they have no idea what rogue actually was or looked like.

nothing, I bought POE:II during the summer sale and played it for 50 hours and enjoyed it greatly

Could you give some examples of games in the genre in which the romance is so overbearing as to ruin the games and by extension the entire genre?

>What killed the traditional RPG?
Huh? Traditional RPGs are still alive and kicking.
>Tyranny
youtube.com/watch?v=iAcMsF2Jbzk
>Pathfinder:Kingmaker
youtube.com/watch?v=5a3814HBJDE&list=PLAMGM1hSRIUotAwIZu0_qN_xcNSXWaSpv&index=3
>Divinity:Original Sin 2
youtube.com/watch?v=YvCtUKno5Q0&list=PL-qmRax74ix7nLcyoCnSvdGI1lhovPNWB&index=10
>Wasteland 2
youtube.com/watch?v=Qgd5u3Semug&list=PLDGA81yNLZhM2FDsSV6zQuWZC3Fam2ZwC&index=11

And Baldur's Gate 3 is on the way.

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i can get an argument for the combat but i just fucking hate the perspective itself

Them being slow, boring, innacessible to anyone, ugly, convoluted, unbalanced and generaly not amazingly fun or with even complex or interesting combat that allowed you to explore much shit without the condoned meta build everyone should take, with the remaining 90% of the games combat options really not being good.

Underral is a good CRPG. Its able to be slow or fast, still autistic, allows a lot of tools, enviorement manipulation, bullshit cheese and doesnt hold back any punches while being enjoyable, in an interesting setting, with a background story you can piece together and really, its fucking faster than Fallout 2 while not being a reference shithole. Thats the apex of what a RPG should be and many never achieved even a fith of what it does or did.

There, you had a constructive and actually decent post here. Give me a fucking (You).

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don't even need to have played rogue, which frankly, is heavily outdated
could just point them towards nethack, it does a good job of representing the genre

>What? How the fuck are you defining "recently"? 25 years ago?
Well if you look at the reviews at the time Baldur's Gate 1 was released, people thought it was pretty fun. Baldur's Gate 2: pretty fun. Same with Icewind Dale 2. Neverwinter Nights. Dragon Age Origins, that was 2009 (and the IGN review at the time complained it was too easy, hows that for a blast from the past).

So not that long ago.

Subjective. I love it personally and think it's comfy.

I love the way it looks in general.

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I never played rogue either, I started with nethack.

Reminder that RTWP is an abomination and should be sealed away for eternity.

Tyranny was fun but the added loyalist ending was a let down. That bitch Kyros won't let me serve her.

The Ice Age.

no

Tyranny could have been so great if it wasn't an unfinished, unpolished mess.

Democratization of video games as a hobby, leading to dramatically lowered average iq of gamers as a group.

It's happening. The age of RTwP is done. Turn-BASED won.

Bullshit. It is a well known and established scientific fact that a meteor hit the earths surface around the late 1990's and that's probably what caused the early (near) extinction of old crpgs

This btw

we can all thank OS and PoE for that
both major releases, yet only one of them was actually fun to play

Pathfinder being significantly more fun with the turn-based mod also contributes to this desu.

I would have played it if it was. First person is the worst perspective.

It's just capitalism man. I'm glad we're not stuck playing whatever shit games you like.

RTWP is great, turn based is also great. I don't know where all this hate came from recently.

Immersive 3D enviroments and controls.

Kingmaker is dogshit past chapter 4 though. Almost the entire last 3rd of the game falls flat.

3D unironically.
they just stopped making them at some point.

FPBP

Based and spidapilled!

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>3D
Yeah 3D killed it immidiately. As soon as Baldur's Gate fans even glanced at how stunning Neverwinter Nights looked they knew it was impossible to ever go back to shitty isometric.

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1/2 skyrim zoomers, 1/2 contrarian faggots

consoles

>traditional RPG
Boomerspeak for 60$ 2.5D Dungeons & Dragons.

I like playing games were the combat doesn't give me braincancer, thank you very much. And don't get me started on turn-based systems fucking hell.
And if I'm to suffer through novels worth of dialog to get from point A to poing B, might as well have it voiced so i can have more than a couple of my senses engaged at the time.
If you want to argue about the casualization of modern RPGs sure go ahead, more power to you. But take those nostalgia glasses out of your fucking asscrack and realize the technological limitations of yesteryear make old RPGs fucking unplayable when compared to the accessibility of today. Fucking tank controls in an RPG? Really? Button mashing stat based combat? RNG for everything? Hideous graphics, artificial difficulty and god awful optimization?

Come on now.

Voice acting.

Shit, anons got it.

>JRPGs because western RPGs wanted to be just like them. Shit like Baldur's Gate was the beginning of the end.

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mazda

3d is better for player-made content. Unfortunately, only nwn was good for this and not a single game even considered trying to replicate it afterwards.

Obsessed

>3d is better for player-made content.
Maybe, but NWN 1 still looks like dogshit.

HOW TO BEAT CENTEOL?

But he's correct. JRPG's are railroaded interactive visual novels compared to western rpgs.

No no nonono NOOOOOOOOO DON'T YOU GET IT
BECAUSE MORROWIND HAD A GREAT STORY IT MEANS ITS GAMEPLAY AND DIARRHEA TEXTURES WERE ACCEPTABLE FUCKING ADD ZOOMERS GO AWAY REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Apply to all "traditional RPGs" ad noseum.

Probably. I liked it better than nwn2 desu.

/vr/ would like a word with you

Obsession is a terrible thing, user

Not hard when you never improve even an iota neither gameplay, nor writing (nor music, but that's not as important).
Funnyly enough the spineless faggot had the balls recently to write an article (actually marketing, like all in his terrible attention seeking blog) about how terrible his games art is, because he prefers to spend it in gameplay and writing, when literally the single only thing he has ever put resources in improving (although only a little, that's true) is graphics, and because the clever nigger knows that's what matters the most to sell vidya.
If you consider his games good you have the same level of criteria and standards of a JRPG fag: null.

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>475976669
(You)

Being boring.
But for real, a widespread obsession with unwieldy interfaces, low production values and obtuse gameplay as ways to keep undesirables out of the scene probably was a big factor in the downfall of CRPGs

remember they tried a baldur's gate in ARPG? lmao

Text dumps =/= good writing

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Yes, exactly. That game is a prime example of mediocre writing that people who never actually read books rave about.

>SJW shit
nah fuck off

How's it sjw?

So when will you start posting your "reading list" to show Yea Forumsirgins how smart and above videogames you are? We know that's the only reason you entered this thread.

Funny how people criticize jrpgs for too much monologue and pressing x to advance dialog when this does it so much worse.

ok pal

It isn't. user is just retarded.

@475976845
>t. assblasted autist deprived of his dreadful isometric mechanics

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Morrowind really was the best isometric rpg

Beamdog

I'm not "above videogames" by any means it's just that you fags overrate the shit out of games with run of the mill Sword&Sorcery stories as if their endless text dumps are impressive enough to excuse everything else in the game being trash.

The number of good ones can be counted on two hands and that's terrible

Tabletop RPGs were always an abstract simulation of combat. Video games eventually found better ways to do it.

Games that were actually fun.

Nothing killed them, the market evolved and now it's filled with normies instead of proper nerds.
Nerds enjoy walls of text and wasting time walking around, normies want to play the game and get instant gratification from easy objectives.
The target audience is simply not the same anymore.

>cucked out of making BG3 by Larian
>WotC never even gave them a cursory glance
absolutely loving every laugh

I'd say the market thinks that people are obsessed with instant gratification, more than people are actually obsessed with instant gratifications and easy objectives.

The current biggest genre is one where you sit in an empty fucking field for 20 minutes then get sniped from 500m away.

To be honest Larian is currently the best CRPG studio in the world. DIvinity 1 and 2 blow original Baldurs gate out of the fucking water, nothing else compares with it. Blizzard themselves wouldnt even come close if they tried their hands in RPGs again

>Baldur's Gate
>traditional RPG

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first/third person view and better grafix

wat
you're so assblasted you've confused my points in your attempt to sound smart

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based and truthpilled

You brought up Morrowind in an argument over isometric rpgs.
You've played an isometric rpg before, right? Besides Morrowind

I don't know, I read a bunch of books.
A lot of real dogshit gets published, mac.

So... that's your reading list?

I remember this being one of the harder fights, he kept wing buffeting and interrupting all my spells so I had to wear him down with normal auto attacks

The drow fight was harder because I used WISH and it fucked up so all my mages lost all their spell mem slots

spotting consolecucks is always so easy...

The same thing that can change the nature of man.

I wish someone had told Obsidian this when they were making Pillars.

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>it's another 'Planescape has shit writing because I read books yet with every post I only make clearer the obvious fact that I haven't played Planescape nor read any books' episode
I really wish they'd stop broadcasting this retarded one already. You can't fucking imagine how tired everyone with half a working brain is of poseurs and assorted wannabes on this trash biard

Could you give a few examples of good writing in a video game?

If you're that interested I'm currently reading Canticle for Leibowitz
it's pretty good

You ever read House of Suns?

Anything?