He's right you know...

youtube.com/watch?v=iTUtnclr2hs
youtube.com/watch?v=RES4kXxsZFQ
He's right you know. The way fighting games keep being released in 2019 is completely unacceptable and should be called out as much as possible.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=zwbd7USTIOs
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bitch

What an annoying cadence.

He's still right.

Who's this fuckin' loser?

FG commentator. Pretty decent.

tasty steve's white friend

based sajam finally speaking up. stupid nip devs think their shit dont stink

Literally nothing will change though.

yeah you're right, but this is about awakening the idiots that come up with stupid fuckin arguments to how its just too hard to do something like not have shit netcode

So is he

SAJAM
MAKE
SOME
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOISE

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cadence deez nuts

STEVE MY ARM

If fucking Double Helix and Iron Galaxy can do GGPO, theres no excuse for any jap dev.

If the Riot fighter has all of those features on launch then it'll be GG for all fighting games.

GG is fine online just have fiber optics and don't be a nigger on wifi. I get 3f at worst and usually 1-2f with people doing so. UNIST is pretty decent but the framedrops online make it harder to deal with shit that shouldn't be hard to deal with. Like some dumbass just doing empty assaults and it becomes harder to block/AA because of it when offline you'll stand block every time if there is no conditioning to it.

I love the snipes at Tekken though its 100% accurate. No game should be without instant rematch. Hell no lobby system without 1v1 x 4 like almost all anime games nowadays should exist. Its idiotic no one wants to wait through more then 2-3 people in a lobby atleast no one with a job/limited time who also wants to learn.

Fuck this faggot and fuck zoomer twitch subscribers.

why don't you fuck off
nobody likes this dumb annoying gay faggot

Yeah xrd actually is not terrible BUT, it's still delay based. KI is free, play someone you usually play with an "ok" connection in your game of choice then play KI.

Haven't seen anyone make excuses for bad netcode. Turns out people would rather play good games with bad netcode than bad games with good netcode.

Who is he directing this video towards? Most people do call out FGs for their terrible online whether its matchmaking, latency, etc.

People who defend any games poor choices are just gullible idiots the developer wanted to appeal to anyways.

To the general game playing audience. The video ended up on front page of r/games and the comments are all about how true what he's saying is.

3f with delay netcode is unplayable.

i think it's more about finally putting all the complaints and grievances in a single video so others can point to it easier.

you have so many defending shit netcode in fighters.
especially anime players are guilty of that. they lie about the netcode to trick people into buying their games.

>Who is he directing this video towards? Most people do call out FGs for their terrible online whether its matchmaking, latency, etc.
>mfw people who defended MvC:I

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if you actually knew anything about fighting games you'd know that MVCIs netcode is one of the best this gen.
only KI runs better online.

Sajam seems to think licensing GGPO instantly makes your netcode good.
You should listen to the KI devs talk at length about how every single facet of the game had to be designed from the very beginning around the rollback netcode for it to work as well as it did.

Its not when you're on PC
PC has 1f native delay, PS4 has 4f
So pc online with 3f is like offline ps4

stop rationalizing it you dumb faggot sajam literally talks about idiots like you.
if you play on PC and you're used to 1f then playing with 4f is fucking awful.

>You should listen to the KI devs talk at length about how every single facet of the game had to be designed from the very beginning around the rollback netcode for it to work as well as it did.
Then start DOING that. Put that effort in. Unless you're a literal indie dev like FB, there's no excuse to not work on implementing rollback into your game.

Apologize.

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Thats why you practice with delay, which is what I have to do to practice for locals dumbass
I also wasn't saying its the best way to do netcode, but 3f in GG online on PC is no where near that bad when I have to deal with the same amount of delay playing offline on PS4 at locals

KI does not use GGPO its using something else that is way more advanced and way better.
Implementing GGPO is easy, every indie shitter does it.

KI devs also said that they could make something even better if they made the game these days.
Most fighting games are just super fucking behind the curve.

That's fine, but Sajam in his talk both expresses admiration for MKX having torn their entire engine down to the bones to fix the netcode and the enormous effort they had to expend to do so, but then also says 'just license GGPO its cheap and easy'.

>I'm a mature adult

but from what i understood about the video, killer instict does not use ggpo

That's what I'm saying. Sajam is treating licensing GGPO as something cheap and easy that will give you KI-like netcode.

it doesnt. KI is insane. it simulates the game at 90fps to predict shit

The game is dogshit. Surprisingly, the online is decent.

no retard he says it will give GGPO netcode which is more than enough.

>Sajam is treating licensing GGPO as something cheap and easy that will give you KI-like netcode
but it is still better than what 90% developers give the consumers for an online experience

>Comparing TI to any fighting game event

Not even remotely fair.

he makes it clear that he doesnt want TI. he just wants a functional game and we cant get that.

He's a retard who thinks netcode that supports characters teleporting and desynching is innately superior to delay because reasons.

His point was that compared to the grand spectacle that is TI, as a fighting game player his deep and fond wish is just for the game to be playable online.

retard

He's never explained why rollback is so fucking superior but he never stops bringing it up

how about you actually go and play a fighting game

Jap devs aren't aware of the concept of connecting to someone online further than how big their own country is

Well they'll have to realize sooner or later because they can't keep making fighting games with arcades in mind.

youtube.com/watch?v=zwbd7USTIOs
lol

Stop being games with delay netcodes. But we all know that wont happen, the typical idiots will keep gobbling that shit up with season passes and dlc right up their asshole then drop the game after 2 weeks. The people that will get fucked over as always are those who are trying to literally play the fucking game but cant do that when going online is like playing underwater in these games. Who cares about netcode? Just keep asking for guest chars, dlc, and more costumes like good goys

buying*

fighting game fans might be the dumbest consumers on the planet
>$60 barebones fighting games need to do SOMETHING to get better UI and functionality because everyone agrees it sucks
>no LOL

literally because of arcades, hell nips barely even play on console and laugh at gaijins everytime they lose at EVO

And then people will continue to not use or buy fighting games for anything more than the pretty graphics. Regardless, yes, the only thing Xrd was lacking in was GGPO.

Nah.

While delay netcode isn't ideal, Xrd still would be how it is now even with GGPO, as none of you faggots would have played it still
Every time I meet some one who claims to love Guilty Gear backs out when I ask if they want play it because they don't play it as its "dead"
Which is total bullshit as I play it nearly every day vs randoms online on PC

I wish he was still here...

No ones gonna bother with GGPO because arcades lmao keep coping amerisharts

>A measured response

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You mean the arcades that are dying now in Japan?

cope

MY ARM

most fighters arent even arcade first anymore.

are you confusing Green Arcade as if it was a japanese arcade? fucking no they aren't. Mikado Arcade for example still is as crowded as ever. Joniosan is still pumping out Xrd vids every day

>Sajam seems to think licensing GGPO instantly makes your netcode good.
Pretty sure he doesn't.

He also mentioned that the KI devs said that if they knew what they know now KI would have even better netcode.

No mention of crossplay is annoying. There's no excuse for fragmenting already niche and limited playerbases these days.

>but but sony
You can still do PS4 crossplay with PC, or Switch with xbone and PC.

like nails on a chalkboard

bullshit

We should first get functional online before doing crossplay.

>how every single facet of the game had to be designed from the very beginning around the rollback netcode for it to work as well as it did

You fucking act like GGPO is a new thing and there's no way these current fighting games could have ever been built from the ground up with it.

Games with delay netcode happen to be the better fighting games, like GG and Tekken.

Having to find matches via discord is a nonstarter.

PC Xrd is alive enough without crossplay
I don't give a fuck if we get it or not
I'm not even in any fighting game Discords, player match has plenty of open lobbies. Despite the shit people chat Xrd is far from dead, sure the playerbase is small but you don't need discord at all

No, I'm just tired of people saying Street Fighter V or Tekken 7 or some other game that has been out for years with shitty netcode should just "license GGPO" and be magically fixed overnight, and even if Sajam is not that naive, he's motivating a lot of those naive kids to go bitch on twitter.

Thought I should add this screenshot I took BEFORE EVO the last time some one claimed GG was dead

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Sajam is a wannabe aris

Sajam isn't an idiot. He doesn't expect them to rework shit like NRS did for MKX. He just wants future games to have better netcode.

i think his main point was that fighting games haven't fixed a big problem with them over multiple entries, and he wishes they would fix it with the next ones. the next street fighter, tekken 8/tag3, guilty gear 2020, he hopes these will actually evolve and improve at something that is so fucking integral to their success at this time.

That's pretty dead once you filter for good and same-region connections.

Those two are pretty different personality wise and commentary wise so not sure what you getting at.

>YFW FGCucks still have MvCI running rent free in their pee sized brains
You for a game that you fucks want to make sure it doesn't exist, you clowns sure love to bring it up alway.

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4 populated euro lobbies with 4-7 people in each? Full lobbies are hidden
That isn't dead, dead is Koihime Enbu where you can literally only find matches on Discords. I've been playing sign and rev on PC since both came out and its rare I can't find a lobby. Usually very late at night theres no lobbies
If you actually want to play Xrd you can, and always could without Discord. Saying the game is dead is no excuse when there are people waiting for you to play every day of the week

I honestly think people pretend they played Guilty Gear because they can sound like they have good taste in games, you know retards like Max

>That isn't dead
That's pretty fucking dead compared to most other online games.

Not even counting shit like mobas or mmos; your average ok selling shooter or indie title will have more players.

If you're in most of the United States then that's nowhere near enough players to have matches that aren't 8f+ delay.

There are actually more players in the US than EU on PC Xrd
Compared to other games its small, but you can find lobbies easily. Game is hardly dead just because its not got thousands online at all times
The crux of it is if you were a fan of guilty gear, and actually wanted to play it, you can hop into a lobby and play it right now. But you choose not too for some reason, despite liking the game
The more of you get over this notion that the game is unplayable the less """dead""" the game will be

he shows one match with a bad connection to show Japan is just as bad as the US?

It's a match for an official Capcom Pro Tour online tournament which grants ranking points so it's embarrassing to have lag that bad.

It was a pretty terrible example too. SFV's netcode is garbage and can have async rollback and other issues even in conditions that would play well in games like KI (or even SF4).

A better example would have been a game like Tekken 7. Even good, nearby connections in Japan will sometimes just suck.

parsec is unironically better for netplay on Tekken 7

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he isn't wrong that loads (LOADS) of people let companies off. In T6, you had instant rematches and that game had 3D models on the character select screen, which loads quicker than T7.

>that bellybutton
besides that, I like how Ricki does not look like thsi at tournaments. What's the point desu

maybe if western devs could make a fighting game that wasn't dogshit, Japanese devs would do something.

>functioning UI
It functions.
>Good online lobbies
Literally only matters for esports, and esports are a minority for everything except MOBAs.
Seems like a good way to become financially destitute as a company.
Would be nice to get though, yes.
>Good training/tutorial
Now, how the fuck do you make a training/tutorial for something as vague and unsystematic as street fighter and its footsies?
As it is, everyone has a different approach (to sf4) and cannot agree on shit.
Not even the devs can decide the meta, no matter how hard they tried to stomp out option selects.

The only games that can afford a good tutorial are dumbed down shit like p4arena, BBtag and DBZF, where mechanics literally vacuum you into poking each other at point blank with blockstrings, and the game can be described entirely by plus and minus frames, mixups, and oki.

You mean like Killer Instinct?
Skullgirls is alright too and has excellent netcode

>Arena
>dumbed down
Actually laughing right now, christ.

>The only games that can afford a good tutorial are dumbed down shit like p4arena, BBtag and DBZF, where mechanics literally vacuum you into poking each other at point blank with blockstrings, and the game can be described entirely by plus and minus frames, mixups, and oki.
Have you even seen Guilty Gears ingame tutorials? Theres a basic tutorial, then 50 missions that show you all the advanced mechanics, safejumps etc, and 2 matchup missions for each character

>VF4EVO came out 17 years ago
>literally had EVERYTHING besides online
it's crazy

kinda sad I missed out on the new KI. It seems quite fun.

You're literally one of the bitches Sajam describes that will defend not improving shit.

you don't need to explain what the best way to win is, you need to explain the basic concepts and any extra tools that are unique to this game, like the wakeup options or chickening in tekken. you could just explain what the concept of the term footsies is and provide some easy examples, like ryu does a crouching medium kick and you have to whiff punish it or whatever dumb shit.

>Now, how the fuck do you make a training/tutorial for something as vague and unsystematic as street fighter and its footsies?
you start with the basics?

Didnt XRD have a very in depth tutorial and still people wouldnt read it/didnt give a shit and bitched anyways?

>mash light to autocombo
>pokes deal no damage compared to combos, making samsho/sf/sc/vf footsies not a thing
>not dumbed down
Dumbed down isn't meant as an insult, because I like those games as any other.
But its much harder to make a tutorial on vaguer stuff, something like footsies, mindgames, or, say, arcana heart's homing.

Yes, the first post you quoted said that

>>mash light to autocombo
Still laughing.

You might have brain damage then, because majority would say arena is dumbed down blazblue.

i never played xrd, but yes i did hear it had a great tutorial, but people refusing to read it is not an excuse, you don't judge the quality of a tutorial on the people not willing to read it, you judge it on how well it taught those who did read it. if i play xrd's tutorial, then decide to do some fights, and that guy on the other side does some shit that wasn't in the tutorial, i'm pissed.

not it isn't.

>game instructs you to do a c.mk then do a st.mk to certain beat CPU attack
>tells you do do it a few times
>then explains the purpose of the strategy and provides another example to try
these tutorials should encourage the player to do practical shit plus think about the posibilities. Totally possible in those games and even VF4 did it perfectly.

>Homing Attack; specific system to the game
>vague
huh? That's like saying you can't do a tutorial on RC in GG.

Not gonna watch 30 mins of autistic rants, but I do agree with the titles
However, if online becomes better locals might start disappearing, which would be a real shame
Kind of a dumb complaint, but I'd honestly rather see fighting games kept mostly offline

That's how Rev's mission mode does it and should be the standard for 2D fighters. It gives you real match concepts, multiple times to do it, grades you for doing it, and even gives you hints depending on how you did it the first time.

The tutorial covers all the basics, the mission mode has advanced stuff
There's also combo mode that teaches you some basic combos and the techniques each character has. Obviously people who have put more time in will do stuff from outside of those modes as they've labbed the game to learn better combos etc

The fundamental problem with fighting games will never be solved. People will always get mad when they are beat by a better player and quit. With moba's and fps they can blame team mates for their losses but fighting games force you to accept you fucked up

>if online becomes better locals might start disappearing
There are arguments that say this right now on twt and they're factually stupid. Better online = higher quality locals. Plus not everyone can go all the time to a local.

Your point is correct but it doesn't excuse it. i shouldn't have to look up how to do a springkick in tekken 7 because the game doesn't tell you how because everyone already knows from playing 9 other games.

That covers counterpokes. A reasonably good explanation I might add.
But footsies still involve spacing control, pressuring without buttons, and all sorts of other shit.
Covering every topic separately with examples would result in less of a tutorial, and more of an SRPG's infodump of a "tutorial".

>Homing
Arcana's homing interacts differently based on directional input, enemy height, distance between each other etc for completely different momentum, angles, and frame data.
Good luck making a tutorial on that.

We aren't talking about Tekken we're talking about Guilty Gear
If Tekken had tutorials on the same level as GG you'd be told, whats really fucking odd though is Tekken is growing despite the new player experience being shitty

no i know i was just talking about fighting games in general, wasn't disagreeing with you.

>Better online = higher quality locals
You're gonna have to explain that
>Plus not everyone can go all the time to a local
Not my problem

Its only really Tekken that has that issue out of current games desu
UNIST is in ways better than GG
SFV... isn't the best as theres like 2 combo trails but the training mode is great
I could go on but I cba making a massive post

it is the developers problem though. most people don't buy a game so they can go to the barcade that's 15 miles away to fight 3 other guys and get obliterated. they buy it so they can either play singleplayer content, which is almost nonexistant in fighting games outside of mk, or play against other people, which online makes very fucking easy.
yea i tried unist's tut, it's pretty good as well, but like you said tekken is on the rise and that will only tell tekken team that no tutorial is fine which is bad.

and you can still do spacing control.

>game shows you and example where doing cr.mk then moving away at a certain range will still make you get hit by certain attacks
>provides another example where your spacing is better and you can move away, then telling you to punish the opponent
>game then explains the benefits of spacing and how it provides further opportunities. Then proceeds to provide another example to try

A lot of these aren't tough to explain; anything that has a logic can be explained in a way that people can understand. This is just the general concept of fighting though so you would be taught these examples and then move into character specifics. No school of teaching will be some easy shit to get to grips with, it requires work, practice and motivation. I would imagine a player would be elevated if they try this shit and find examples of their own.

>Homing
It does and because it is one of the main systems of the game, each mode and method can be explained. GGAC had IB, FD and SB, with all items explained within the mook with all the frame data available. It will not be easy, but it can be done.

>It will not be easy, but it can be done.
Is my biggest gripe against this.
You are right in that the tutorials CAN be done, but can they be done concisely and entertainingly enough that people would bother trying them?
Or are we adding another 2 or 3 months of dev time and money into bloat that no one would touch or review, for a genre that doesn't make money and can barely pay rent as it is?

Old players won't give a fuck, and zoomers are too ADHD to go through a 4 hour tutorial unless its blended into a story mode.
Sounds expensive as fuck to do.

No GG game has the framedata ingame

the tutorial could be done during the development process. I am sure for every ssystem there is a plan, so this would already be documented so its base use is decided. Just need to find a way of applying that into a training session. That, or additional tutorials are added for free over time. Devs are too focused on making these WOW AMAZING screen transitions than actually working on the core game.

Old school players basically only had an arcade and had to produce their own guides, which I have heard people had done in Japan. It will take time and that ultimately will be the reason none of this shit gets put in, then the fact that "oh, players will never be interested in learning! Never!"

I did say mook. Mooks back then had all the detailed information you wanted to know, even shit like how the tension gauge works as it does. Levels of attacks provided certain properties so you could figure out frame data on your own and confirm it by practicing.

I thought a mook was American for a dumb person? I didn't have the internet so never really played games my friends didn't when AC was around

Stop defending that devs shouldn't even try making Fighting games better.

It's a stupid argument.

He can Sajam it in me anytime

Fighting games are just generally very bad from a game development standpoint.
>garbage tutorials
>tiny map and character selections
>almost zero single player content so the game becomes worthless if it stops being popular
>netcode and online play designed by children

If thinking it isn't worth it for devs to waste limited resources on a budget genre is stupid, maybe you ought to put your money where your mouth is and donate $200 000 to pay for those employees?
No?
Well, I'm sure arguing on mongolian cavepainting sites and following youtube e-celebs will convince capcom more than voting with your wallet then.

Oh wait, wallets? Sounds like money is the biggest factor after all, rather than whether an argument is "stupid or not".

>garbage tutorials
Not true of UNIST and Xrd
>tiny map and character selections
>almost zero single player content so the game becomes worthless if it stops being popular
Why would you play a competitive 1v1 game on your own?

Keep sucking that Capcom dick and wondering why fighting games aren't as big as they should be.

why single out capcom when other games like tekken are way worse about it

NOOOOOO JAPAN CAN DO NO WRONG SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP STOP LIVING OUTSIDE OF JAPAN

fucking thems fighting herds has better online features than most fighters from japan

they literally have no excuse

>You're gonna have to explain that
playing against real opponents is different from labbing hours a day
if I was able to emulate a local-like connection by playing online, it would only benefit me so much more
also lots of people like to git some level of competent before going to locals
if online sucks ass, they'll never crest that wave

i bet your voice sounds like utter shit

>No dick
American "trannies" everyone.

hey alright

weird cope