Is the story in this game as incredible as everyone says it is Yea Forums?

Talk to any NPC with a name and you shouldn't miss anything.

It's not. Too verbose for its own good, the writing is the kind of thing you'd see from a highschooler who wants to be an author and read one or two books.

>muh visual novel
nice meaningless buzzword you got there

t. pseud with 10 books in his personal library

As expected, no argument from the plebes who elevate PST. Play a better game with better writing now.

yes

Yeah, it's pretty good, although as with many popular films/books/video games, it's been overhyped to the point where you might find it a little disappointing.

If you went into it not knowing anything or having no expectations (as many people did), you'd probably think it was incredible. Most people playing it for the first time now will probably just think it's a good game with a great story and shit combat.

>nooooo you need arguments to counter my non-arguments
what are your arguments again?
Too verbose? Why? Too many words? Why is that bad?
Something a highschooler would write? Why?
Putting a couple buzzwords together to appear smart doesn't magically give any sense to what little you're saying, pseud.

Brevity is the soul of wit. PST and its fans are witless.
Pretentious, flowery dialog.
On the contrary, it opens the door to conversation which you seem utterly terrified of, attempting to "shut it down!" immediately. You're afraid. It's okay. You can play better games.

Not really. Play Kotor 2, its the exact same story in a setting thats more accessible

Most 'people' only expect one thing getting into it, impatiently waiting to write a post on Yea Forums after two hours to say how intelligent they are for not finding as good as it was promised to them.
I played it because I wanted to play it only a few weeks ago, and I unironically agree with the widespread opinion that this is an absolutely fantastic experience.
As long as someone isn't an attention starved cunt they should find something to their liking in this game.

the story is reddit, the gameplay is abysmal.

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>lack of story driven games

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Yeah, the standards for WRPGs are rock bottom. It's basically a fake genre with no real games.

>he says, trying to immediately shut down conversation
what an utter joke you are
Why would recycling some generic saying like 'muh brevity good long text bad' somehow justify why you think that short text good long text bad?
How is the writing 'pretentious'?
All I'm reading is some pretentious cunt trying to convince himself that he is not a 'pleb' for not somehow not liking a game hailed as one of the greatest.
I would actually enjoy having a civil and interesting discussion with someone who has actual flaws to denounce in Planescape's writing, I think it would be very interesting. But you're just putting a couple buzzwords and adjectives together and hoping your vague passive-aggressive insults will bully me into agreeing with you. But you still have made no point.
You're afraid, and that's not ok, if you are don't utter opinions about shit you know nothing about.

>you share a board with retarded animals like this
What's the point

In terms of what people were aware of, yeah. You gotta remember how low awareness was back then.

The ps1 Final fantasy games are no less story driven than xenogears

>graphics are still beautiful to this day
Not even remotely, and I love 4-5-6 gen aesthetics.

Go back to codex kid.

>what an utter joke you are
he says while posting a work of fine comedy
>Why would recycling some generic saying like 'muh brevity good long text bad'
Too verbose, try getting to the point. Don't waste my time, stupid.
>How is the writing 'pretentious'?
>what can change the nature of a man
>pretentious
You just learn a new word?

>back then

Are you saying any modern game has surpassed pst's writing?

not really. Theres ton of bad exposition by every single npc before the one good conversation at the end.

Plenty of games don't have writing as tedious as PST. Not a hard mark to pass.

The spirites look great and their animations are good, especially TNO and companions but also most NPCs, the backgrounds look great, the art style is amazing.
What's not beautiful about any of this?

Easily TOP 3.

Why is it too verbose? Explain. You don't say shit because you don't have shit to play.
What is pretentious about this question?
You really are a vapid pompous cunt.

most games have better writing than redditscape: reddit.

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>tedious

Right, wolfenstein: young blood must be much more gratifying for you.

You're so angry.
>Why is it too verbose
By using too many words to say something simple? You're worse than dear esther fans.

Not good enough to make up for the shitty fucking CRPG "pause and RTS" fucking shit combat.

Yeah, exactly, for a lot of people Squaresoft, Sierra, Interplay and generalized WRPGs were it as far as story driven games go. Nobody was gonna sing the praises of Ace Combat 3, its story didn't even exist in US releases. Nobody was talking about Machi, Deus Ex had only just come out and Max Payne was on the way. The pool was small and shallow so they stood out more, most companies just weren't putting out story driven games yet anyway and a lot of them were low visibility or stuck in another country.

Planescape would be better as a visual novel

>reddit
AHAHA HE SAID IT!!!! SAY IT AGAIN!!!!

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What's reddit about that?

I want to ask, what is the significance of telling Mebbeth "because I need power" that makes it the more profitable option? I can understand that telling "because I may need it to solve the mystery of who I am" could be discouraged for a new player since they've been told to keep their nature secret, but there doesn't seem to be anything that tells a new player the importance of the power line.

I'd say 999 is a much better book despite
>ANIME
and it's not the best shit ever, so yeah sure. Most games aren't, but Torment is elevated due to different standards from a different time.

>everything else is as bad as everyone says too
Combat is simplistic but hardly bad. It serves its purpose well enough. Spam Litany of Curses for days.

999 and VLR are definitely far better. Don't get triggered by anime, it's the only form of modern hand drawn art with any technical skill involved.

So would a lot of games, honestly.
Meanwhile most VNs are fucking ass. It ain't fair.

What the fuck am I even reading...
There is literally not a single dialogue in Planescape with useless text. Every single character goes to the point, even when they're narrating parables.
I'm not angry, frankly I'm disgusted and embarrassed to read your stupid shit.

>The writing and characters are among the best ever made in any fictional work ever, unironically.
That's a tall claim, does it truly live up to it?

>There is literally not a single dialogue in Planescape with useless text

Probably

Because that's what the First incarnation told Ravel when he asked her about magic and immortality and she replied asking back why he wanted to learn.

What's useless about any of this shit, seriously? What's verbose in that?
Rewrite it simply then, if you're so convinced it could be done as elegantly with less words. After all brevity is the soul of wit amirite?

>VLR
The writing is terrible, don't elevate that game just because it teases a better story while writing piss all.

>Don't get triggered by anime
I don't, I'm just admitting some of the art and a few bits of the writing are beholden to generic Japanese animated series cliche.
>It's the only form of modern hand drawn art with any technical skill involved.
Stupidest goddamn thing I've heard today.

Good, a PS:T thread. Time for the big question, anons. Did the Practical Incarnation sell his nameless ass?

>ywn get to hear Keith David voice act the entirety of Vhailor's speech about JUSTICE

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>a few bits of the writing are beholden to generic Japanese animated series cliche.
Which ones again?
Some universal fictional archetypes found in western literature, videogames, movies, among others, and, incidentally, anime.

>Don't get triggered by anime, it's the only form of modern hand drawn art with any technical skill involved.
What? What would possess you to say such a thing?

>gets triggered by anime
>defends calarts
why?

Damn time to give this game a shot

>oh cool a potentially interesting thread, better make everything I can to turn it into mediocre unfunny shit

Imagine denying reality so people don't call you a weeb.

>know people meme a lot about 'Updated my journal'
>play the game
>the line is uttered every five seconds, triggered multiple times in a single conversation even
Holy hell, it was true.

The part where the art direction and rendering are shit. I can excuse pixelation and roughness, but it's not a pretty game like pic related.

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This is unironically one of my favorite conversations in the entire game
Annah really is hot

>defends calarts
Anime is just Japanese calarts.

>everything that's not anime is calarts
Last (You) I'm handing out, get it while it's fresh.

If you dont read good books than yeah the story will be amazing to you.

Oh, it's a ouiaboo. How sad.

seething.

>a potentially interesting thread
You know it's only going to devolve into
>the game is shit, read a book
>it's reddit: the game

There's nothing to discuss anymore, anyone that has played the game did so twenty years ago.

reddit
are you happy now?

Apples and oranges then I guess, because I really think your pic related looks like absolute ass, colors are disgusting, artstyles is generic and sucks.
Maybe it's good from a pure technical standpoint for the time but it turns me off immediately from playing whatever this is. Even the camera angle bothers me. With all due respect of course. Not trying to say your tastes are trash, just that we likely disagree from a subjective perspective rather than an objective one.

I think I'm too much of a brainlet for this game. I recruited Dak'kon and I feel I can't grasp the deeper meaning behind the conversation we had.

Yea Forums has this weird thing about sex. I see a lot of people bitch about shit like this or the fuck in DOS2, but the rest of the board is just porn with occasional video game talk.

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story driven games were at an all time high in popularity in the late 90s

Some of them are spoilers, but an easy one is the "getting wet" conversation that's pretty much ripped from garbage anime and doesn't translate outside of that at all due to the way it's written.

Most of the writing and visual design actually has clear roots in Western media and the director intentionally held back on otaku-isms. You can see what happens with the sequel when he was encouraged to embrace the anime zeitgeist in the wake if DanganRonpa.

I don't give a fuck about the retards that played it 20 years ago and forgot all about it. The thread from where you took your retarded joke was pretty great and filled with people who played it only recently with interesting opinions about it. If you're so jaded about everything why not simply shut the fuck up then.

Switch port when?

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No, they had just started to take off, hence why awareness was limited to the big things being pushed at the time both by media and fans. There wasn't a large general knowledge base of games that had come out in that early internet era, hence the rise of people spreading word of "hidden gems."

Characters are great. Everyone's memorable, even the random NPCs. The writing is a little too wordy imo, but it's not bad at all.

Reddit literally named Planescape & Morrowind into their top 35 games last week. Which was almost all obscure western games. WRPGs are Reddit Tier garbage

The deeper meaning behind it should become clear once you finish talking with him. At some point you should find an arm with tattoos in the catacombs. Bring it to Fell's parlor and ask Dak'kon to translate for you even if you have higher wis and int.
As for his philosophy itself, there isn't a deeper meaning, it's straightforward and pretty much textbook what you and him talk about.

Ah, Planescape Torment. Right up there with Diablo 2, Baldur's Gate 2, ToEE, Arcanum, VTMB, Stalker and whateve other PC exclusive games you were only told about when you go to Yea Forums because they're not "mainstream" like those console games. The fact of the matter is they're not mainstream because they fucking suck. At best they're experimental (failed experiments) which makes them somewhat interesting, but at worst - and most of the time its the worst, they're borderline unplayable boring pieces of shit getting so high on their own farts and pretense that the entire experience feels like scrolling through the front page of reddit forum.

Look, the games just aren't good.

>He's never played Crusader No Remorse/Regret
Casual.
youtu.be/kEJ5-C4vf8k

>Oh no X likes something, that means I must hate it or be like them
You should go back there because you apparently completely share their retarded mindset.

Quite literally 'pleb filtered and now I must blame someone else for it - the post' .

PC gamers just like to praise shit because it's not on consoles. Not my problem they don't like it when their shit taste is being seen through.

It's a matter of clarity and detail. It has some odd color choices in the name of being easily readable while still keeping things crisp and interesting. Planescape tends to have backgrounds that are just saturated with one color and overdo it on rendering little details everywhere to the point that it's muddy and unfocused.

>DUDE WIKIPEDIA INFODUMP
>DUDE LET'S RECYCLE THE SAME TWIST I ALREADY USED 2 TIMES
Holy shit you Uchikoshitters are delusional

The infodumps are at their least annoying in 999 and the previous use of the twist was in a story that's absolutely terrible.

I don't like Uchikoshi, but on it's own merits 999 is a pretty good VN masquerading as a puzzle-adventure game.

PST is probably the ugliest IE game, m8

What can change the nature of a man, Yea Forums?

And no, it's not so much the STORY as it is the lore and openness in the game. This game is more akin to a VN than an RPG though, and any combat-related mechanic is absolutely atrocious. The right way to play this is high INT/WIS/CHA.

You're saying that like Torment isn't worse.

>What can change the nature of a man, Yea Forums?
anonymity and shitposting

Is there any point to levelling up Dex?
Lower AC is nice but it's a heavy investment before you start seeing benefits, and even then you can get a Mage's Guard early on if you know what you're doing.

le wacky accents and a cuck character.

Is Tides of Numerera or whatever any good? I didn't really follow up on it but I heard it was a spiritual successor.

>Great tier
Pathologic 1/2

>Good tier
The Void, Silent Hill 2, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Kentucky Route Zero, Cryostasis, I Have no Mouth and I must Scream

>Decent tier
Planescape Torment, Morrowind, VTMB, Bastion, Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, The Cat Lady, The Last Guardian, Papers, Please, Rule of Rose, Lisa the Painful

>Mediocre tier
Nier, Deus Ex, Drakengard, Metal Gear Solid 2, Silent Hill 1, Nier Automata, Dark Souls, Killer7, Earthbound, Mother 3, Flower, Sun and Rain, SOMA

Fight me

>the previous use of the twist was in a story that's absolutely terrible
999 is also a story that's absolutely terrible, so at least that aligns nicely. I neglected to mention the clunky dialogue and absolutely cringeworthy Axe ending.

>hmm we are stuck in a fridge but I suddenly feel urge to recite this wikipedia article about RMS Olympic
Uchikoshi shit is bottom of the barrel of shitty, japanese writing

Stop feeding the troll, he's obviously a retard who can't into free indirect.

Probably read the first page of Gravity's Rainbow and called it pretentious.

You're defining all these games by the same standard, which is like judging a Tarkovsky film based on De Palma standards.

Also, ranking in comparative terms is for plebs.

List 5 books you think are good writing then that aren't from the same author

>Flower, Sun and Rain
literally how, it barely is a story

>I have no mouth and I must reddit
>good
Inb4 but muh based nahtzees, but muh raep

>Every single character goes to the point,
>says when every time you initiate dialog you get a short novel in text to describe just what they're doing

>Thomas Pynchon
read better authors

Pathologic isn't all that special, imo.

Fuck off Thomas and finish your novel, Book of Numbers doesn't compare

Well its at least better than the dullest game of all time. Each attempt Obsidian makes to create their own universe rather than simply deconstruct a setting made by others, has been more disastrous than the last. Aside from the outdated gameplay and lifeless cities, Pillars of Eternity's only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of combat mechanics, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when Sawyer vetoed the idea of making anything at all innovative or original; he made sure the game would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody, just ridiculously profitable nostalgia pandering to ageing Baldur's Gate fans. Pillars of Eternity might be anti-casual(or not), but it’s certainly the anti-Divinity series in its refusal of spontaneity, fun and excitement.

>a-at least the writing was good though

"No!"

The writing is dreadful; the narrative was terrible. As I played, I noticed that every time I engaged in dialogue with an NPC the game presented me with a Wiki-page style infodump instead of anything resembling actual human conversation.

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time this was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Sawyer's mind is so governed by obsession with pointless minutiae of the lore that he has no other style of writing.

Later I read a lavish, loving review of Pillars of Eternity by the same David Gaider. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kiddies are playing Obsidian games at 17 or 18, then when they get older they will go on to enjoy Dragon Age II." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you play "Pillars of Eternity" you are, in fact, trained to shill for Bioware.

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>What can change the nature of a man, Yea Forums?
Belief, anything which you believe is strong enough to change you has the power to do so, whether suffering, regret, etc.

Whole game is about the importance of one's ideas and beliefs.

you would know about them if you grew up pc gaming in the 90s and the early aughts.
clearly, you didn't.

>List 5 books you think are good writing then that aren't from the same author
No? How about you stop thinking Uchikoshi has ever written anything redeemable first?

I'm not the person you're arguing, I'm just asking you list 5 books from 5 different authors you like

I mean that's on you. I agree that it needed less exposition and better dialogue, but I think it's a well structured, paced and realized dramedy thriller. I even pointed out there are plenty of better written games, but you sound like you've got a chip on your shoulder.
>There's this bad scene therefore whole thing = bad.
You're just as moronic as
If you've got a problem with the writing as a whole, dig into the characters and the setup and the way it handles its mysteries instead of taking pot shots at parts everyone hates.

>the anti-Divinity series in its refusal of spontaneity, fun and excitement.
>when Divinity tricks you constantly into wandering where you shouldn't through poor level and encounter design.

yes

>The infodumps are at their least annoying in 999
I agree but that still doesn't make them not annoying or obnoxious. It breaks the immersion when the characters are trapped in a freezer freezing to death and one of them decides to go on a long spiel about a pseudoscience theory about a form of ice.

>he's a plotfag mechanicsnigger
How low on the fucking plebeian scale can one man possibly go. Get a taste for the literary arts instead of being a genre-guzzling philistine.

What cuck? Are you retarded?

>he hasn't even read mishima
typical planescape borement poster

>Kentucky Route Zero
Stopped reading there, it's not even fucking done yet so how can we know it's good for sure?

>last episode is just a static low-quality jpeg of a man taking a shit on a dog's face
Pure kino

On the flipside
>impatiently waiting to write a post on Yea Forums after two hours to say how intelligent they are for finding as good as it was promised to them so they can "fit in"
Plenty of attention starved cunts who play games for epeen status and not to legitimately enjoy them.

I'm the person saying 999 > PST

>Grapes of Wrath - Steinbeck
>Heart of Darkness - Joseph Conrad
>Canterbury - Chaucer
>The Brothers Karamazov - Dostoyevsky
>Ubik - P K Dick

>lol fucking casual
You're goddamn right, any suggestions that aren't memes?

...

>I hate stories that make me feel unpleasant emotions aside from sadness.

Explain the appeal of Grapes of Wrath to me. I read it and I found it dragged on and on and on with the suffering. Like I get it, I get what the author was doing but it just gets so dull and dreary

ICO and Shadow of the Colossus have stories?
Just go back to plebbit already.

>VR in a shitty isometric game with PS2 graphics

Is this bait?

There are no unpleasant emotions aside from sadness.

Yes, I like titty posts more than I like cringe sexual banter shoved into fantasy RPGs. How is that weird?

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>plotfag
No, I just enjoy murder mysteries/thrillers for the actual mystery/meta puzzle/atmosphere, not the strength of dialogue. Sorry for evaluating stories by different standards based on their objectives.

But seriously, dig into how shit the characters or the narrative is. I want your opinion on something that's not an easy target.

>Hate
>When he called the games you like decent
Are you okay user? Also did you perhaps not notice Pathologic in the number one spot?

Because it helps emulate the feeling. I actually agree that some sections are too repetitive, but I felt the metaphor chapters spliced between helped carry it.

>any suggestions that aren't memes?
You'd probably like Dubliners by Joyce. If you like VNs it might do you some good to check out theatre to see how dialogue/scenes play out in a form that a little more closely resembles most VN writing. I'm partial to Arms and the Man and good-old Oedipus Rex.

Start with the Greeks

I didn't say I liked/disliked any of those games, I'm making an observation. Calm down.

user are you okay? You say I'm mad for making an observation while getting upset with me because you thought I was mad at you for making an observation?

Ayyyyy, you got me there, I love the classics. Roman, but the first half of Aeneid is some of the most exceptional literature I ever read. Too bad the second half is shit and goes full propaganda, you can feel exactly where he died.

I didn't say you're mad, I said calm down.
We're both obnoxious hypocrites regardless.

It has some of the best lore of any game ever.

But that's relative. It'd be AVERAGE for a book and "(very) good" for a movie.

Yes, go read it. And remember to not leave the Mortuary before checking every fucking nook and corner.

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Retard, his best book was Decay followed by Sailor. Typical pseudo assumes Mishima is stylistically doing anything comparable to Pynchon and compares their quality as masters.

I'm the one who asked you, try these

Like Death - Maupussant
Slumberland - Beatty
The Changeling - Williams
The Notebook, The Proof, The Third Lie - Kristoff

Thanks pal, I appreciate it.

Sure thing, can send more books you'll never get recommended by the tryhards on Yea Forums

weebs mad that noone in japanland is as good at writing as chrissy boy

Why not? Just say a whole bunch of shit you like, not like there's gonna be much of worth posted as this thread dies out anyway.

Sure thing boss

The collected poems of Rilke, Paul Celan, and Rita Dove
Flee by Evan Dara
Nazi Literature in the Americas by Bolano
Collected stories of Deborah Eisenberg
Bluest Eye and Song of Solomon by Morrison
Nazi and the Barber by Hilsenrath
A Naked Singularity by De La Pava
The Diving Pool by Ogowa
Dahlgren by Delany (invented Cyberpunk)
In the Heart of the Heart of the Country by Gass
Book of Numbers by Cohen
Whores for Gloria by Vollmann
Hell has no limits by Donoso

>people I don't like enjoy this so now I can't
what a genuinely pathetic mindset

>look at all these books i forced myself to get through in a sad attempt to gain validation

Thanks pal, I'll give them a look.

Not everyone is like you, I enjoy things and like discussing them with people interested

You shouldn't feel bad for loving what you are.

It's more the writing, although the story is still good

planescape torment is a fucking visual novel
the combat is braindead faceroll easy

Western education has fallen to the point that modern kids are barely functionally literate. Of course they're not going to like a game with a near million word script and almost no voice acting.

>That's why
>Not because they think the writing is mediocre or bad.
It isn't Trails or Persona tier, but it isn't good.

It's pretty good. The art and atmosphere work together to make it compelling.

The ending is quite good and bittersweet which rounds it off well.

It's not as much as a head fuck as something like Pathologic, but it is a good story.

this, combat was fine and very easy so you can enjoy the story while the game allows you to fight sometimes to not get bored.

You have to be able to read to figure out if writing is bad. Maybe they can remake it in emoji translation.

I enjoyed the gameplay a lot. The amount of reading drags though; everybody replies to basic questions with paragraphs. Ultimately I skimmed the dialogue which seemed important and skipped everything that seemed like fluff (which is most of it).

who gives a fuck what reddit thinks you retarded nigger

I enjoyed reading a lot, but found the music lacking after a while, as you spend a lot of time with the text music tends to get very repetitive

No but he's got a fair point. People these days judge things more on what they hear from others than forming their own opinions.

>it's a Xenogears situation where people elevate it due to a lack of story driven games.
Wrong. Both Xenogears and Planescape: Torment are late 90's RPGS that revolve around an amnesiac protagonist who's been reincarnated numerous times, sure, but that's where the similarities end.

Let's look at how that premise is tackled in Planescape: Torment, without giving away any specific spoilers. The entire game is spent uncovering the mystery of who you are. Instead of only getting better at combat, gaining higher mental stats like wisdom also helps you to gain new insights into your past lives. The climax of the game consists of a mental trial where you reconcile those past lives with your current life and confront the unresolved baggage of your past lives. It's a deeply personal story, and the story is driven by the player's actions. The ending is not happy, but it provides fitting closure.

Now let's look at Xenogears. The story is driven not through the player's action, but is told entirely through non-interactive scenes of the characters talking. While the game does reveal the mystery behind the protagonist's past lives, the story is decidedly epic, with the fate of the world and arguably all of existence at stake, and culminating in the predictable cliche of a boss fight where teenagers defeat a corrupted god-like being. Rather than explore those past lives, the game uses them more as a framing device for an archetypical good vs evil struggle. The ending is happy and overly saccharine, with even genocidal villains getting a last-minute reprieve for their misdeeds.

Planescape: Torment's writing is not pefect, but what makes it a good story (by video game standards) is that it actually leverages its premise in every aspect of the game. By contrast, the writers of Xenogears obviously had a lot of ideas, but they seemed to have no clue about how to meaningfully incorporate those in a game.

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Follow this modding guide to get the best experience:

torment.fandom.com/wiki/Mods_and_Tweaks_(PS:T)

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>Western education has fallen to the point that modern kids are barely functionally literate
This is mostly a meme. Education has deteriorated in some ways for sure but the main reason for decline in results is one you aren't allowed to notice.

If you need to ask, I suggest sticking to modern bioware games and bethesda.

wouldn't call it incredible but definitely up there and done in the best way it could be. shame about how god awful every combat encounter is

>You're saying that like Torment isn't worse.
It isn't. Every single conversation in Torment (except 1 or 2 plot-critical ones) is completely optional. Infodumping in Torment only happens when a player strikes up a conversation and then asks an NPC about stuff. In other words, you only have yourself to blame for infodumping.

Now, let's look at how the story is presented in 999:

>half hour of npcs clunkily expositing the story
>completely abstract puzzle
>half hour of npcs clunkily expositing the story
>completely abstract puzzle
>rinse and repeat for the entirety of the game

Not only is 999's writing awful, but it's completely disconnected from the gameplay, besides the very flimsy framing device for the nonsensical puzzles.

Men are more visual than verbal. Its just a bias on your part.
Look at how many romance novels women love. Whereas men just always resort to porn.

>looks like a rotting corpse
>gets a tsundere redhaired catgirl ovulating just by telling her she is not ugly
what an absolute CHAD

final boss of xenogears is a bioweapon, final boss of PT is the god-like being (should you chose to fight him)

>Too verbose
I wish people would stop spreading this false narrative. Planescape isn't even particularly verbose compared to other story-driven RPGs.

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The nameless one is too much of a mary sue, I don't think he's ever presented as having any flaws.

>final boss of PT is the god-like being
What, the transcendent one? Did you even play the game? The entire plot of Planescape is about how the transcendent one went into HIDING in the fortress of regrets, so that the actual gods would not discover his existence. Because if they did end, they would end his existence immediately. Because the nameless one cheated the rules by becoming immortal. That's why he's nameless, so that he can't be detected by the gods.

You can run into an actual god-like being in the game, the lady of pain, and if you do, it's an instant game over. Because the gods are far more powerful than any of the characters.

Why are you making up this nonsense?

>final boss of xenogears is a bioweapon
Oh yes, I'm sorry. He's not a god, he's just a sentient machine called 'Deus' that has trapped the Wave Existence inside it. The Wave Existence is a divine being from a higher plane of existence that can create worlds and create life forms to populaye those worlds. Totally not god.

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You're wrong, the gods don't give a heck about the nameless one. Play the game again.

Yeah, thats pretty fun if you ask me.

Transcendent one is definitly God-like, but not a god

Deus didnt trap wave existence in him, humans did with the zohar then made it

Wut? Transcendent one hides from TNO not gods

>No Dostoevsky.

Welp

>You're wrong, the gods don't give a heck about the nameless one.
Because they don't know about his existence.

Why do you think the nameless one goes to hell in the ending? Because as soon as he regains his mortality, he regains his identity, and the gods became aware of his existence so they immediately send him to the hell that he was long overdue for before he cheated death to become immortal to avoid going to hell.

I'm more verbal and imagination-focused than most men in terms of enjoying erotic writing but most of it is garbage especially the kind that shows up in RPGs. Other than the core gameplay, I typically play RPGs for the adventure and hero journey, not to have indulgent romances or awkward come-ons written by nerds with no experience at all dealing with real-life women.

I'm not dismissing PS:T just for one dumb dialog sequence, but yes i don't like that kind of thing in RPGs, despite the fact that I don't mind if there are a handful of Chun-Li brap threads at any given moment on Yea Forums.

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>Transcendent one is definitly God-like
He definitely isn't. Planescape's setting has gods. The Transcendent One isn't anywhere near their level of power. Again, why are you making up this utter nonsense when the game goes out of its way to point out how weak the Transcendent One is in reality?

>Deus didnt trap wave existence in him
So? The end result is still that Deus has the power of a literal god.

No one "sends" him to hell it's just where he ends up when he dies

No, the other guy is right.
>Why do you think the nameless one goes to hell in the ending?
Because he dies after regaining his mortality.

>I am an autistic and mentally crippled retard so no fictional story should ever have any hint of romance or sexual tension
Besides, that conversation you posted is OPTIONAL. Why did you go out of your way to hit on Annah, and then complain that the game forces romance on you, when it didn't?

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It's quite telling that you have to rewrite and exaggerate my point in order to respond. Looks like you are the autist who thinks that dialog is anything like what real sexual tension is like.

>The end result is still that Deus has the power of a literal god.
no he didn't you fool, a simple explosion completely fucked its body up. It took it 10000 years to regenerate, and it only did so because karelian unearthed kim's findings on nanotechnology and applied it to Deus, otherwise it probably couldn't do jack shit since it lacked the ability to create real humans. I'd say given this, transcendent one is way more god-like than deus/yabeh

>Because he dies after regaining his mortality.
Holy shit, how are people this retarded? After he merges with the transcendent one, the nameless one literally says the gods are coming for him as he speaks, and with the little time he has left, he sends his party members back to Sigil.

Here is a transcript of the dialogue in question:

>"YOU CANNOT FOLLOW, NORDOM. IT IS NOT MY CHOICE. THERE ARE OTHER POWERS THAT NOW RULE MY ACTIONS. THEY ALWAYS DID, BUT NOW THEY KNOW ME FOR WHAT I AM, AND THEY COME EVEN AS WE SPEAK."

>"I... AM SOMETHING ELSE NOW. TIME RUNS SHORT, AND SOON TIME AND FATE WILL CATCH UP WITH ME. I WILL RETURN YOU TO SIGIL, MORTE, IF YOU WISH IT."

>"IN KNOWING IT, I KNOW WHERE I SHALL SOON BE BOUND. TIME AND FATE COME HERE EVEN AS WE SPEAK, AND I WILL NOT BE HERE MUCH LONGER. I WILL RETURN YOU TO SIGIL, DAK'KON, IF YOU WISH.

>"I CANNOT REMAIN HERE FOR MUCH LONGER. MY PUNISHMENT CALLS, AND FATE AND TIME SHALL SOON BE HERE. I WILL RETURN YOU TO SIGIL, IF YOU WISH."

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Should I play the original or the enhanced edition?

>Rather than explore those past lives, the game uses them more as a framing device
no shit it's a framing device it was meant to be a 6 games

Did you even play Xenogears? Deus, upon crashlanding on a lifeless planet, created the first humans. He is literally god capable of creating life itself.

You have yet to mention anything god-like that The Transcendent One did. Yet according to you the Transcendent one is somehow "way more god-like than deus/yabeh"

>Planescape: Torment's writing is not pefect, but what makes it a good story (by video game standards) is that it actually leverages its premise in every aspect of the game.
That's just a cute gimmick, user. In terms of prose, character writing and theming they're about equal. Torment's a better story, but not especially so.

Gods are not mentioned once in that dialogue, stop trying to force your silly headcanon.

>no shit it's a framing device it was meant to be a 6 games
Which just shows how much of a hack takahashi is. The idea that Xenogears' story was so DEEP that he needed 6 games to tell it is so mindboggingly stupid and arrogant that I literally have no words.

>Gods are not mentioned once in that dialogue

>THERE ARE OTHER POWERS THAT NOW RULE MY ACTIONS. THEY ALWAYS DID, BUT NOW THEY KNOW ME FOR WHAT I AM, AND THEY COME EVEN AS WE SPEAK."

Pray tell, what do you think those "other powers" are? The tooth fairy?

He ends up in hell because whatever the last incarnation does cannot overweight TNO's past evil deeds. There is no need for Gods in the narrative.

>He ends up in hell because whatever the last incarnation does cannot overweight TNO's past evil deeds. There is no need for Gods in the narrative.

The gods are who decide who goes to what afterlife, you retard.

>Is the story in this game as incredible as everyone says it is Yea Forums?
If this thread is any indication, a majority opf Yea Forums is too stupid to understand even basic plot points of the game that are spelled out in the dialogue.

Make of that what you will.

It's refering to the laws of that universe essentially.

Everyone knows about Dosto so what is the point in recommending him?

Ok, so which god sent TNO to hell then?

>It's refering to the laws of that universe essentially.
That sentence specifically refers to sentient beings who now know him for what he is and who rule his actions.

Laws are not sentient. Gods are.

Planescape's setting has gods. Why would you even try to deny this? It's a well-established part of the setting.

What are you even arguing against? The discussion about gods came up because some moron claimed that you kill a god at the end of Planescape: Torment. That's clearly not the case, since even after merging with the transcendent one and gaining his power, the nameless one is still powerless to stop the actual gods from sending him to hell.

Dialog doesn't have to be realistic

Just setting the record straight that the planescape story is not a story about gods.

It's a great story for a game. It's not about the literary value of the writing - which is decent, good for an RPG. It's about how the story is integrated into the game design in unexpected ways. It's a self aware story, very meta (unironically). If you're interested at all, you probably want to just play it rather than try to acquire more information about the story.

did you? I literally said it wasn't able to create real humans, that was the biggest problem in its resurrection. Krelian has to use nanotechnology

>You have yet to mention anything god-like that The Transcendent One did
how about the fact that it owns a pocket dimension for itself and that it effortlessly killed ravel?

Not even that guy, but holy shit are you misguided about Planescape lore. The "gods" aren't traditional Abrahamic deities that judge the actions of mortals and such, they're essentially extremely powerful beings with incredible powers, each with their own agenda. The "world" itself does have a certain amount of sentience, this is demonstrated when Curst gets sucked into a worse plane after chaos takes over. The planes are the physical embodiment of tendency, with worse tendencies belonging to worse planes. TNO destroys himself at the end after realizing that his decision to become immortal has only cause even further destruction, and was a mistake. Countless people have lost their souls in his futile attempt to wrong his mistake, and he accepted his judgment.

you are on Yea Forums, do you seriously think that people have read him around here?

>FSR
Sumio both of him is a precious guy. Also, FSR itself is a pretty good exploration of player agency and game design.

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>how about the fact that it owns a pocket dimension for itself
What pocket dimension would that be? The Negative Material Plane? The transcendent one doesn't own that, he just took refuge there.

>and that it effortlessly killed ravel
Killing a hag is a rare feat, but it's hardly something only a god is capable of doing.

So I ask again, where are these god-like feats?

>did you? I literally said it wasn't able to create real humans, that was the biggest problem in its resurrection. Krelian has to use nanotechnology
You can't possibly be this stupid, can you? You say Deus can't create to humans, and then point to Krerlian as a counter-evidence.. Krelian, who himself only came into existence as a result of what Deus did. Are you retarded?

No, I'm serious? Are you mentally handicapped? Did you suffer brain damage?

Again, the planet was uninhabited when Deus landed there. The entire plot hinges on this. Why would you try to lie about this?

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>Ok, so which god sent TNO to hell then?
Assuming that TNO gets sent to Baator, that would be Asmodeus, ruler of the nine hells of Baator.

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>reducing ravel to "a hag", the person who outdid the lady of pain, a god, because it goes against your narrative

>Again, the planet was uninhabited when Deus landed there. The entire plot hinges on this. Why would you try to lie about this?
it wasn't, chus are natives. Abel also survived the crash, the actual human

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store.steampowered.com/bundle/380/The_Infinity_Collection/

hmmm

>Not even that guy, but holy shit are you misguided about Planescape lore. The "gods" aren't traditional Abrahamic deities that judge the actions of mortals and such

actual dialogue from the game:

>"If you have been a goodly sort of gentleman, steadfast in charity and goodwill toward your fellow bloods, perhaps the light-blanketed slopes of Mount Celestia shall house you when you die. Your spirit shall pass on to this place, dwelling as a petitioner in the beauty of golden mornings, soft sunlight that caresses..."
"And eternal boredom," Morte muttered, sticking his tongue out.

>"Perhaps you lived your life to betray others and get ahead, giving lies instead of truths, back-stabbing others, all to accomplish your own goals. Cold, Blood-Red Carceri, the Plane where all turncoats fall when they pass on, shall be the cage that imprisons you. As a petitioner on this Plane, you shall live a life of treachery and treacheries, of lies and lying, knowing a life without trust."

>The lecturer hunched over; his eyes darted back and forth. "And perhaps you have lived a life of bloodthirsty evil, contemptuous of your fellow man, laying others low and doing as you pleased without a care for who or what you hurt...

>"...then it is perhaps one of the Lower Planes - Baator, or the chaotic swirling layers of the Abyss - that shall welcome you! Evil to the core are the spirits that come to this plane, and most are doomed to mindless cruelty and suffering or servitude in the dreaded..." He whispered dramatically "...Blood War."

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Of course not. It can be anything, including cringe dirty talk.

Even if people haven't read him i assume most people at least know who he his/his major works.

Your summation of Xenogears pretty much reminded me why I hate JRPGs. No player action, everything is a cut scene, typical end of the world stakes and all the main characters are pretty much kids. It's not something unique to Xenogears; this is just how JRPGs in general are structured. It makes me wonder why the genre was ever called RPG in the first place, since it does not have many traditional RPG mechanics we associate with DnD.
I think it's really just the fact that they have a squad like DnD and were story driven games, so that was enough to be called an RPG in the late 80s...

>cRPG
>play
i think you mean read, user.

What the fuck is that stupid accent supposed to be? is Annah Irish?

>>reducing ravel to "a hag", the person who outdid the lady of pain
She didn't. The Lady of pain mazed Ravel as soon as she stepped out of line. Ravel was never remotely a threat to the lady of pain. Again, did you even play the game?

>chus are natives
Where is this mentioned?

>Abel also survived the crash, the actual human
And how do you think humanity procreated? Because Deus created a human woman that Abel could have sex with.

Again,why do you keep lying?

And why is this never mentioned in the game?

ravel got mazed on purpose, found the way out a long time ago, and decided to stay in there anyway. Fuck me, not only do you not understand xenogears but you don't even understand the fucking game you're trying to felate

>where is this mentioned
the game, try playing it instead of googling shit

>ravel got mazed on purpose
Yes, and? Do you seriously think that if Ravel tried to attack Sigil again, the Lady of Pain couldn't stop her? She did it effortlessly the first time, so why couldn't she?

The Lady of Pain is so powerful that she managed to banish all gods from Sigil. She has killed gods, even.

>the game, try playing it instead of googling shit

>no actual source
Thanks for proving my argument.

Besides, even fi what you say is true, how does that support your argument? There was already a race of furries on the planet...so? It still doesn't change the fact that Deus created human life all by himself.

meant to say race of furry creatures

>The "world" itself does have a certain amount of sentience, this is demonstrated when Curst gets sucked into a worse plane after chaos takes over. The planes are the physical embodiment of tendency
I don't think that's really sentienc per se. Gate towns slide into their corresponding outer plane when the collective alignment of the population corresponds closely to the alignment associated with said outer plane.

again, he wasn't able to make perfect humans from scratch. he used humans (Abel when he became the contact) as a template and created imperfect beings as a result using technology (kadamony) created by humans. We do the same thing with cloning, we are not gods

>ravel got mazed on purpose, found the way out a long time ago, and decided to stay in there anyway.

Do you understand what the purpose of a prison is? The Lady of Pain could have simply killed Ravel. She didn't. She mazed her instead. And since Ravel didn't escape her maze to try to attack Sigil again, why would the Lady of Pain bother doing anything else?

Console rpgs

>since it does not have many traditional RPG mechanics we associate with DnD.
Did Japs even have DnD back then?

Does this game have any chest gear? Looking like a zombie barbarian is nice and all but I'd like TNO to have a more scholarly look.

>That's just a cute gimmick, user. In terms of prose, character writing and theming they're about equal.

>Xenogears
>equal to Torment
Xenogears has an awful localization, even by the lowly standards of PS1 RPGs. You seriously think the prose and writing is on par with Planescape: Torment?

Here is an obvious example: virtually every character in Planescape: Torment has their own distinct style of speech, dialect and mannerisms that is shared by nobody else. Annah, Dak'kon, Nordom, Mebbeth, even townsfolk NPCs like Pox or O that have nothing to do with the story.

Now think about Xenogears. Despite spanning the entire planet (unlike Torment, which takes place mostly in one city), virtually every character speaks the same way: very basic English that sounds like it came straight out of a machine translation.

pretty sure they did

>literally making my point for me with ingame evidence
>still somehow believes this proves his point
Get a load of this retard

yeah, you suck sorry

no

Does it matter? That's how D&D works. The god or gods in charge of whichever plane your soul aligns to claim it and you become a petitioner. This is Planescape 101.

Planescape is nice and all but when are we getting a game in Dark Sun?

What are you talking about? Shattered Lands was fucking awesome.

>Does it matter?
Of course it does, because that would make Asmodeus an important character in the narrative, which is why its weird that he is never mentioned.

>that would make Asmodeus important to the narrative
Why? The powers don't give a shit. You're a bad enough dude, you go to Baator when you die. Asmodeus isn't going to drop what he's doing and collect you personally.

It’s god tier for a video game story but it’s worse than the random entry level stuff you were forced to read in highschool.

>Asmodeus isn't going to drop what he's doing and collect you personally.
But you just wrote that it was Asmodeus who decided that TNO would go to hell.

What the fuck is wrong with fans of thia game that every thread is full of such uncompromising voices

This but unironically
Read a book

People grossly overstate how good the average book is.

I didn't write that.

You didn't write this?

The fact that TNO goes to hell is not that important in the grand scheme of things.

No.

I played recently Torment: Tides of Numenera and I like it. This is better, right? I mean the original stuff

Updated my journal.

Tell me about ToN, how are you liking it? Good things? Flaws?

Game was incredible when I played it for the first time as it came out when I was 12.

Today, it's still good for how coherent and interesting the game world is, but it's also very simplistic in just about every respect. It does the things it wants to do adequately, even great by the standards of 20 years ago, but today it's nothing to freak out about.

Then again, looking at trainwrecks like Torment: Tides of Numenera, or Pillars of Eternity, maybe this game is great even by the standards of today, for this genre of games. Which I guess is kind of depressing, seeing an entire genre completely stuck in the mud for two decades, or even regressing in many aspects. Yeah. Now that I'm reminded of T:ToN again, that game was a fucking atrocity. CRPGs really are in a sorry, pathetic, shameful state, aren't they? When a game made 20 years ago for 12 year olds whose story was made up basically by one guy manages to beat out entire studios in quality in all those respects, even considering the atrocious fucking combat. THAT'S depressing. Guh... now I made myself sad.

Then why are you even responding and barging into someone elses argument?

>but it's also very simplistic in just about every respect. It does the things it wants to do adequately,
What gives you such a low view of it?

P:T isn't about the grand scheme of things, that's a part of its appeal.

>looking at trainwrecks like Torment: Tides of Numenera, or Pillars of Eternity
Some friends of mine have spoken quite positively of Pillars of Eternity, what makes it a train wreck?

This isn't debate club, faggot.

I know, what I'm saying is that within the journey itself it is not that important.

>chatting with Ravel Puzzlewell
>conversation takes a nasty turn
>declares her intent to kill me
>she and her minions lunge towards me
>quickly whip out and update my journal mid-combat

But you're debating me.

I'm pretty sure that it's important to TNO that he will spend an eternity in hell.

I dunno. It's a lot of 'cool thing happens' and then it's over in like 20 seconds of reading. Again, it's very *cool*, it plays with a lot of fun ideas, but it doesn't really explore any of them beyond the depth that a 12 year old could easily understand.

Though I suppose this might be a strength. It allowed 12 year old me to enjoy it, for one. And it doesn't end up taking itself too seriously as a result; a trap that too many games these days falls into. It also lets the game explore hundreds of cool ideas at a shallow level, instead of exploring maybe a dozen ideas (or even one idea) at a more detailed level.

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>cast 'Friends' spell to increase charisma stat and unlock better dialogue responses
>conversation takes so long that the spell runs out

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>playing enhanced edition
>playing with those disgusting black outlines that ruin the spritework

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It's still not debate club, there's no structure to it. Anyone can respond to anything.

>everyone says that you shouldn't worry about Charisma because of the Friends spell.
>The game never lets you know about speech checks, the line simply appearing and mixed with the others if you meet the requirements
>thus you pretty much cast Friends before every conversation just in case, without knowing if it actually did anything
Do you people play with a guide or something?

This is why I always say PST's real strength is the worldbuilding and not the story. The plot itself is a fairly standard amnesia mystery, but the flavor of the world is what makes it so special. It's still written quite well i think but yeah, I never found anything particularly deep about it.

Who told you not to worry about CHA? It's the third most important skill after INT and WIS.

>there's no structure to it
But then the responses make no sense. If I'm responding to someone who says X, you can hardly be surprised that it's not a good response to someone saying Y.

>something is deep when it's completely unintellegible, if a 12 years old understands it it's simplistic
>yet I am unable to explain exactly why it is simplistic
You seem sincere, but god you're a fucking pseud.
You reject something you used to enjoy and tried to understand because you do not find obscure enough anymore. Yet, while you claim that shit, you're unable to expose what would make it simplistic, so are you sure you even understood it well in the first place?
Something being understandable to a 12 years old is a fucking strength, denotes clarity in thought as much as in writing.
I really don't understand why you would think being able to understand it young makes simplistic, this is so fucking retarded I swear to me mom.

Asking the question like that means you are bound for disappointment retard. Nothing is ever "incredible" but plenty of things are good and enjoyable.

>the story of an amnesiac who took several lifetimes to understand what can change his very nature is not deep
Then no fictional story is.
Which is bullshit parroted by teenagers who feel like they outgrow fiction while missing both its essence and its strength as parable.

What would be a game that explores few ideas but very in-depth?

>'s the third most important skill after INT and WIS.
>know nothing about the game
>DEX lowers my AC, that seems neat
>pump it to 16
>end up with 15 Int, 13 Wis and a couple on Str additionally
Well, fuck me.

Nigger, all I did was correct your assertion that Asmodeus should have appeared in the game. Get over it.

>The plot itself is a fairly standard amnesia mystery
It isn't. The problem with amnesia stories is that they are just a lazy plot device for the real story, which starts when the character regains their memories and discovers they are the chosen one meant to save the world or whatever.

Planescape is nothing like this. It avoids the pitfalls of typical amnesia stories by making the entire story about the search for identity, which perfectly mirrors the player's own curiosity about the Nameless One's past.

Nothing wrong with a blind playthrough user.

The source of your amnesia is NOT a mystery. You find out literally within the first location:
>that you lose memories with each death,
>that you have died countless times already,
>that you are immortal,

The only real mystery is WHY are you immortal. Even the memory loss isn't a real mystery, since Dhall supposes that it's cause not by every death, but the harsh/traumatic ones.

Most fiction isn't deep bro.

That wasn't my assertion you moron, that was the guy I was responding to.

pls

>since Dhall supposes
Dhall didn't tell me that.

Yep, he even outright states that getting cremated would truly obliterate you.

No, that was YOUR assertion. The guy who mentioned Asmodeus never said he should be important to the story, he just speculated about which deity would govern the hellish afterlife The Nameless One nded up in.

Pillars of Eternity is a very decent game, one that focuses on theology, out of all things. It has its flaws, and I absolutely HATE that your entire fortress is destroyed in the prologue of the sequel, but still, I had fun.

No, he claimed that Asmodeus was the one who sent TNO to hell. How is the character who decides TNO's fate for eternity not important to the plot?

>How is the character who decides TNO's fate for eternity not important to the plot?
Because the gods are simply a given in the setting. The characters can't possibly oppose their power.

Do you also think gravity is an important character in a story about someone falling from a great height and breaking their legs? Because that's how nonsensical your argument is.

>Do you also think gravity is an important character in a story about someone falling from a great height and breaking their legs?
Of course it is, such a story only makes sense in a setting where gravity exists and is strong enough to make things like that happen.
Gods in planescape are not like gravity at all, they are not allpowerful or everpresent, they can be reasoned with, tricked, killed etc.

No. The bads parts outweigh the good parts, no matter how good they are.

Still deeper than you, pseud. We're not talking about most fiction.

>boot it up
>game expects me to click 30 identical zombies to find a key
Wow, great timeless gameplay. Even on a tabletop RPG you'd be able to say "I check all of them for items". If this is representative of how the rest plays out, I'm glad I dropped it right there and then.

How is the Android port?

The source of amnesia is being killed by the Transcendant one in the negative plane.

im dling this game right now
I will sick duck for story driven games with a good story
u faggots better not be lying

You don't know shit about Planescape. The only way a god can "die" is if there are none left to worship them, and even that isn't permanent.

im not him but i dont even have books. everyone downloads them now

Dude it gets so much fucking worse. WRPGs have this way of confusing pointless tedium for gameplay.

You're not refuting anything I've said.

Play it and find out, no one owning a pc seems retarded enough to try this shit for you

It's alright. Gets a bit dry at points. Very descriptive language, though.

>game expects me to click 30 identical zombies to find a key
Try 3. You don't need to interact with the zombies after that.

>>game expects me to click 30 identical zombies to find a key
There's literally only 3 zombies in the room where you have to find the key, and the dialogu tells you which one has the key.

Cringe

We're not but if you download it just to try and prove us wrong, save yourself the effort and fuck off.

IMHO the game felt short as fuck, i expected more.

No one is forcing you to check every NPC and container, you're given clear directions on how to proceed so your ADHD can rest easy.

>literally boot the game, clicks 3 times, reads two paragraphs of text and close the game forever to bitch about it on Yea Forums
lmao

>That time TNO asked an almost blind and deaf woman to crack open his skull to check if there was anything inside

That's not adhd, that's down syndrome.

Some people just don't do well in the Infinity Engine games. Like those folks who can't get past the mage at the Friendly Arm Inn.

Oh fuck you dude, I was just asking for some simple impressions if anyone has played it. Fuck off and kill yourself.

>pseud
And what exactly are your credentials as a "legitimate" intellectual? How exactly does my disagreeing with your opinion of a video game's depth make me a pseudointellectual? Is it only possible to attain "legitimage" intellectual status, as you have, by holding the right opinion?

Based, fuck zoomers

No u
Literally boot the fucking game and make your own fucking opinion about something once in your life

>and kill yourself.
Bit of an overreaction there.

That's not killing a god dipshit.

There's an Android port?

I haven't gotten it yet. What's the point of fucking threads if we can't discuss things and ask for opinions? Why are you such a fucking asshole?

I don't think the main plot is that amazing, i think the best parts are just exploring the hive and talking with the weirdos that live in it.

90% of the game takes place in one city. Such a dull setting.

It has nothing to do with having the right opinion and everything to do with not dismissing 'most fiction' as 'not deep' when you don't have enough of a lifetime to experience even a fraction of it.
Even if your retarded opinion was correct, since most fiction covers billions of work, even a tiny minority among that is enough to leave you with a lifetime or two of deep and meaningful shit to enjoy and think about.
Provided you're not a pompous cunt who already dismissed it without having even heard about it.

The Hive is kind of shit, though. It has a couple of interesting establishment but other than that it's fantasy ghetto. Seeing more varied parts of Sigil would have been cool.

Now that's an absolutely wrong opinion.
The hive is amazing.

Because fuck you, dumb nigger, pirate it and fuck off.

It's way too bloaty. Keep the iterations and their machinations, cool shit like the lady of pain and then chop the rest with a fucking hatchet. The rat-people, the different factions in town, all of it needs to go. It's pointless.

Ideally you use the vast amounts of free time left to expand on the initial concept. More iterations. More times spent outside the city.

>The rat-people, the different factions in town, all of it needs to go. It's pointless.

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>GAME HAS TOO MUCH CONTENT
You faggots will really grasp at anything to make yourselves believe you are intelligent and superior for finding flaws in such a game lmao

It has far too little interesting content and way too much horseshit. If it was just the intersting content I might actually replay it one day.

You know what? You're right. It was pseudointellectual of me to make such a broad statement about fiction. However, it is similarly pseudointellectual of you to exalt a game as deep by only reciting a plot summary and then attack anyone who disagrees as a pseud without supporting your argument.

>there is too little interesting shit in Planescape fucking Torment
lmao this fucking website somedays I swear to me mom

He has a point in that the game could have done a lot more, however.

This one retard keeps replying to me for some reason. Fuck off.

>Ideally you use the vast amounts of free time left
That's not how video games work, there is to time or content limit.

Excuse you, there's more than one person replying here. Go be a faggot somewhere else.

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Ayyyyy

Again, you can disagree with my reasoning about Torment being deep and if you actually do, please explain why. I call you a pseud for your shit about fiction, not for that.
I just sincerely think that fiction is deep when it manages to write a story that has a complex (=! obscure, revolutionary or unintelligible, it can be very simple at its core) moral or thesis, justifies it as well as an essay would and manages to make sense of it purely through its narration (characters, story, lore and storytelling).
Planescape is basically flawless on that regard, and it fully deserves to be acknowledged as deep in my opinion. You're free to disagree with that without ever being a pseud if you're able to explain why it's not deep.

>people are disagreeing with me? Unbelievable! It must be a single person

I'm three people apparently.
A good incarnation, a practical one and a paranoid one. Like pottery.

Fuck. Off. Or at least make a proper argument.

How could it have again? If you do indeed know, please stop wasting your time here and start writing what I'm sure will be an absolute magnum opus.

You have terrible bedside manner.

What argument? You say some parts of the game are bad and unnecessary yet can't be arsed to tell us why. Start writing one and then we can talk, until then you're just bitching for the sake of it.

>this game could have done things better
>Oh really? Better write your own story, it's sure to be great
???????????

>Keep the iterations and their machinations, cool shit like the lady of pain and then chop the rest with a fucking hatchet. The rat-people, the different factions in town, all of it needs to go. It's pointless.

It's not going to be more persuasive just because you tried again.

>this game could have done things better
Yeah, sure, why not, which ones and how?
I'm not asking you to write us a story but if you do indeed know how Planescape could have been better, you sure seem potentially very talented and intelligent. Too bad you refuse to share any of that with us.

You mean kotor1?

I don't understand the reason behind you being so condescending. It is wholly unnecessary.

>It's pointless because I say so
Oh shit that argument is so good that I am left absolutely speechless

I'm only putting myself to your level. What is more condescending than someone telling us that something could be better then refusing to tell us why or hiw

13 dex gives you unique dialogue options early on and later you can snatch a thing from a wardrobe without begging.

FUCK

OFF

That argument was so good it convinced me I didn't exi-

Are you actually autistic?

Not only early on but it has a nice pay-off at the end
you can only ask the paranoid incarnation if he killed all those people like that if you managed to kill someone by snapping his neck
and with sufficient dex and str you can snap his neck too

>you can disagree with my reasoning about Torment being deep and if you actually do, please explain why
You didn't give a reason initially though. You recited the plot summary and concluded "well if that's not deep no fiction is," then proceeded to generalize and pontificate about peoples' relation to fiction. Hence why I called YOU a pseudointellectual. Point being, maybe don't throw that word around so recklessly.

I don't think PST is deep. Its thesis is that belief is powerful. While this does echo several times throughout the game i question the complexity of it when it is mostly set dressing and is expressed through actions and events that are so fantastically impossible that they are practically unrelatable. The game does little or nothing to highlight and justify the power of belief as it pertains to an average person because belief is literally power on the planes. It's an enchanting fantasy that doubles as an amusing metaphor, but that doesn't make it deep to me.

If belief can change the nature of a man then why is TNO still condemned to the Blood War?

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>Pathologic
No need to fight, you've already lost

It is really great, the gameplay is uninteresting shit though. literally less gameplay options than fallout.

still the correct way to play is with high wisdom, so you can fully experience the world.

Because original TNO fucked up just that badly.

Video games don't have good stories. Play VNs for that.

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Scottish.

That's what's confusing me though. Afterlife is determined by alignment and alignment is governed by belief rather than action, so changing one's alignment should change their afterlife as well.

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Again, he fucked up just that badly. The whole plan for his immortality was to spend an eternity in repentance - unfortunately, he just made everything worse.

Doesn't really gel with how alignment and the outer planes work though. Still a great story but the setting kind of undermines it now that I'm thinking about it.

>thesis is that belief is powerful.
That's an oversimplification, it's the conclusion but far from the whole.
Its thesis is actually that the human spirit, imagination, not belief, is the only force in the universe that can usher change. It's not only powerful, it is the only thing that can counter the inevitability and unchanging nature of the physical universe. You're free to find that 'not deep', but that would invalidate a huge chunk not only of fiction but of philosophy itself as well (since it's an endless debate that took many forms in the last thousand years, in classical philosophy, theology, to modern and postmodern shit).

The stories are anything but unrelatable, sure they might seem fantastic and far fetched from our reality but most of them are pretty effective parables not really that different from classical myths. In any case, this doesn't make them 'not deep'
imo, the opposite of deep isn't simple or simplistic anyway, it's shallow. And shallow is something that only takes itself too seriously when enoncing illogical bullshit or simply describing a fact thinking it's an idea in itself. Both errors Planescape avoids tbqh. Thanks for taking that seriously anyway.
As for the first part of your post, I answered that short description to someone (you? who gives a shit) who simply said that PST's story wasn't deep without any fucking other word. Again, pseud was directed at the shit you siad too fast about fiction, not at the idea that PST isn't deep.

Yeah it does. His crime was so important, maybe not even to the universe but to him, that an eternity of trying to reach redemption wasn't enough to balance it out.
Maybe because his redemption attempt was in itself a selfish act.

I know they're never going to reveal TNO's damning crime, but what's your headcanon?

I think he wiped an entire prime material plane of life judging by the intro cutscene. Maybe he was a necromancer?

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OK What are some old games that people say have amazing stories that actually have amazing stories? Trying to make a list so I can play them all

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Fuck off dumbass

What are the best party members to use for story related reasons?

All of them basically
Morte, Dak'kon, Annah, Ignus, Fall-from-grace then replacing Ignus with Vhailor I guess
Would keep Nordom for a second playthrough honestly

Yes. Faggots like can go back to Yea Forums.
If I wanted to read a book, I'd read a book.

The accepted theory is that TNO set in motion the irreversible and permanent end of all planes.

It's ambitious, but it bored me.
The game is constantly talking about things your characters aren't doing (they spend most of the time quiet in their place while you read the descriptions), and companions are barely developed beyond their first appearence. In general terms, I think a better presentation would have made the story more compelling.

The real reason why The transcendent one is hiding is because like you he is pretty much fucked due to the ravel spell. He is a prisioner in his own house.

This has to be bait.

>The Philosophy of Planescape: Torment
youtube.com/watch?v=ydVf472GOso
>Planescape: Torment is all about choices. Not necessarily choices in the game, though there is some of that, but the choices we have made in the past that send ripples throughout time. It plays with many ideas, but what it plays with the most is the idea of death and rebirth and how with each new life, we become a different person based on the circumstances of our rebirth. You can even see this theme in the main menu of the game where most games would have the option for you to start a new game, Planescape asks you if you would like to start a new life or resume an old life. It’s one in a number of ways the game makes you consider the consequences of your choices and the insignificance of a single life when it comes to the nameless one. But The nameless one is unreliable. His memories are fractured and missing. We cannot rely upon him to give a faithful recollection of his actions, and since I believe that intent does not matter and instead, what matters most is how your intentions are experienced by others, let’s explore the Nameless one through the eyes of the people who knew him and who have met him for the first time.

Look at this retard

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>Planescape torment
>Baldurs gate 2
>Deus Ex
>Fallout 1 and 2
>Kotor 2
>Neverwinter nights 2 Mask of the Betrayer
>The witcher
>Mass Effect
>Dragon age origins + awakening