Immersive sims are the most powerful genre in the world

>immersive sims
>both less immersive and a sim than fucking skyrim

You forgot Prey. And before Dishonored 2 there was Mankind Divided.

You don’t need to be a boomer to know that “narrow but deep” is objectively the best game design philosophy.

lol

It’s true, though.
Skyrim has daily routines for NPCs and has them sleep, eat, work, etc.
It has a day/night cycle, let’s you RP a smith, an alchemist, a jeweler.
It lets you build a house and make a home, catch diseases, get into bar fights, etc.

It doesn’t mean it’s a better game, but it does SIMULATE a lot fucking more things than all the games in op combined.

Hitman 2 has a lot of immersive sim characteristics. In fact, and this is probably a slightly controversial thing to say, Read Dead 2 certainly has some immersive sim characteristics.

This makes sense, Elder Scrolls drew influence from Ultima Underworld.

can you elaborate on that? haven't played RDR2 and i'm curious about your take on it.

you misunderstand. an immerisve sim has a focus on specific role and area simulation, Thief 2 for example is designed to be solely an immersive thief simulator. it is true though Skyrim has immersive sim characteristics, but arguably Thief 2 is a lot better of an immersive simulation of being an actual thief than if you play a thief in Skyrim.
rdr2 isn't entirely an immersive sim, but it does do a really good job at simulating a pretty organic and reactive wild west simulation and in first person it is pretty immersive. got to eat, bathe, sleep and you do have a great deal of freedom. I think a lot of games recently, games like zelda botw and skyrim as well, actually carry a lot of immersive sim characteristics.

the only problem with rdr2 is it doesn't offer really any freedom in it's missions, they're just totally linear and scripted.

Is My Summer Car an immersive sim?

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>Immersive sim
fuck off, reddit
go jerk off to your farthuffing pretend friends on youtube somewhere else

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Actually yes. Perkele.

Then what does SS2 simulate immersively? The role of a soldier, engineer or an x-man on an empty space station?
Face it, the immersive sim “genre” is undefined bullshit.
How is Thief more of an immersive sim than GTA or Need for Speed? Are those not “immersive simulations” of being a criminal/street racer?
It’s not like Thief actually simulates anything other than the very act of stealing, it’s literally no different than a racing game.

woah take it easy man

It's like riot settling on pushing moba instead of assfaggots instead of dota clones because that would be devaluing their product.
Or diablo clone fans fighting souls clone fans over the ARPG label. Or DMC fans with their pile of dozens and dozens of failed labels for 'actually, not that bad of an action game'. Bunch of fucking idiots puffing themselves up.

Immersive sims are about trying to simulate very specific roles and environments, not a very wide sandbox with lots of different but ultimately shallow mechanics.
Let’s compare playing a stealth character in Skyrim to Thief. In Skyrim, your tools to be stealthy are really just your ability to crouch which let’s you go into stealth mode, and a bow for long range, high damage stealth kills. This isn’t really a simulation of trying to be a thief. Your abilities are heavily dependent on extremely artificial gameplay systems. You don’t get better at hiding because you understand how to hide well with the environment, you get better because a stat increased that lets you turn your crouch into a personal cloaking device. Same thing with your bow; it’s all about stats as to whether or not you can kill that enemy that’s 20 feet away. Pickpocketing is also a very gamey system, where doing so literally pauses the game and opens up a menu so you can take what you want. Of course, all of this is because Skyrim is (allegedly) and RPG, and being a thief is only one of the possible avenues of gameplay.
Compare that to Thief, where stealth is entirely determined by your mastery of the mechanics and tools the games give you. Knowledge about what floors to walk on because different types of floors create different types of noise, sticking to the shadows to avoid detection, using water arrows to douse torches, moss arrows to soften the floor and reduce noise, rope arrows to reach inaccessible areas, decoys to distract guards, having to literally look at the keys dangling off a guard’s belt to grab them, being at a severe disadvantage in a sword fight against guards because they are wearing heavy armor and take multiple swings to kill while you are wearing thin, maneuverable clothes so you die in a couple hits, etc... This is because Thief is trying to be a narrow simulation of one thing in a world that functions as realistically as possible.

>Immersive sims are
LGS-like games.

There, saved you some assbreath.

an immersive sim is a game that focuses on emergent gameplay and reactive environments, with a focus on player agency and being able to exploit in game systems. In my opinion ss1 is way more of an immersive sim than ss2, but considering the amount of player agency and game systems running it could qualify.

Thief is absolutely more immersive and more of a simulation than gta or need for speed. The environments are a lot more reactive, you have a lot more emergent gameplay going on and you have multiple environment altering options that exploit game systems like rope/moss arrows and shit, plus the whole sound and light system it simulates.

here's the problem. immersive sim is just a general way of designing a game, it's just a way of differentiating games from the Looking Glass ilk from other games. it is insane to me how much people push back against such a basic concept. If your game lets you really interact with an environment, lets you alter it and come up with your own options, then there's nothing wrong with describing it as an immersion simulation.

>The role of a soldier, engineer or an x-man on an empty space station?
Yes actually, that’s exactly what it simulates. The point of immersive sims isn’t to just to make the player feel like they’re X, but to do so in a way that makes X feel realistic for its setting. GTA and NFS are not attempting to be realistic portrayals of being a criminal/street racer. Things don’t work in those environments like they logically should.
Things do work in a logical, believable way on the Von Braun and Rickenbacker however.

>a game that focuses on emergent gameplay and reactive environments, with a focus on player agency and being able to exploit in game systems
So they're sandbox MMOs?
>it is insane to me how much people push back against such a basic concept
A basic concept like... what? You farthuffing faggots pushing your vidya "analyst" idols' lingo?
Go spam ooof, yikes, seething, see where that gets you. They're just words, right. Nothing more to them.

Okay faggotron, now tell me how that makes Deus Ex and System Shock 2 immersive sims when they literally function like Skyrim in all the ways you argue makes it not an immersive sim?

Hitman, Stalker, and Alien: Isolation are also all immersive sims, but I guess you’re just too retarded to understand game design.

Best conversation

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>sandbox MMOs
Where did the MMO come from?

In as much as they resemble LGS games, yes.

>GTA isn’t realistic for its setting
>thief 2 is

>So they're sandbox MMOs?
what, no. what are you on about

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What? Where MMOs came from? I don't know, go ask a historian who majored in nerd. Or google it.

user. I'm asking YOU where you pulled the term MMO from in relation to this conversation. Answer the question.

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Not even him, but what you described applies to RS more than any other game you mentioned, and emergent gameplay, reactive environment and immersion in a role are all far more present there than in any of those games.

lol newfag don't you even know what an MMO is?

Oh, then say so.
Did you see the quote directly preceding my mention of MMOs, the quote that was specifically addressing?

>RuneScape is modelled after Ultima Online
>Ultima is the series that created the Immersive Sim genre
It all comes together.

That post did not mention MMOs. You did. Where the fuck did this come from? Explain yourself. Stop avoiding the question and answer it.

>That post did not mention MMOs.
I didn't say that it did. I was asking if you saw it? Did you see it?

Wow, it’s almost like “immersive sim” is an asspull applied willy-nilly to anything the ass-holder feels like and not a real genre at all or something

Deus Ex and SS2 both have RPG mechanics but they aren’t nearly as arbitrary (as in Deus Ex) or if they are arbitrary they are presented in a way that makes sense for the world (as in SS2). Yes. The fact that one second you can have the cops sending SWAT teams after you but after hiding for 45 seconds your wanted level disappears and you’re free to do whatever with zero consequence.
Realism in this instance isn’t about whether or not your setting is in the real world, it’s about how your setting is portrayed.

>thief
>fps
¬¬

Why do they bother you so much? Are they to difficult for you to understand?

So you can't answer. You just pulled MMOs out of your ass as part of your "I'm pretending to be retarded" plan.
Well played.

>RS
I haven't played rs, maybe it is for all I know. but I doubt it has the player agency and ability to exploit systems to great emergent moments in the same way as dx or arx fatalis or something. dx is an immersive sim because you can stack sticky mines on walls and use them as ladders.

this whole conversation is really retarded because it's just a way of describing a design philosophy which a lot of Looking Glass games had. dx, thief, ultima, arx fatalis, dishonoured, these all do have a specific design philosophy which sets them apart from other games.

You seem upset.

Ah yes, the realistic portrayal of Deus Ex where you can be dying one second, but then eat 30kg of onions and in perfect health the next, I love such immersive simulations

from what i understand, immersive sim isn't a genre but more of a general premise for gameplay. these labels don't bother me that much though cause i'm not a fucking idiot

thief is literally a stealth fps. like in all shooters, you have melee weapons, extra items and you can even shoot multiple types of arrows. in what way is it not an fps?

The majority of Yea Forums only plays visual novels, so they get mad when anyone enjoys other games.

>dx is an immersive sim because you can stack sticky mines on walls and use them as ladders.
>you can hide from the cops and they will leave so it’s not an immersive sim

aah yes the genre with such esteemed pieces as bioshock and underworld ascendant

>So you can't answer.
Yes. I'm just trying to make sure you understand it.
See, a response is usually related to the thing it's responding to. That's what makes it a response, and not an irrelevant aside. We call the broader phenomenon "context". That's why I was asking if you saw what it was a response to. Because it was brought up in a specific context. The context being a description, the response being a label. What relation could they have?
Don't worry, I'm not going to leave you to dry after coming this far. No child left behind. I'll see you through this. I can narrow it down to two options for you. The description fits the label, and it doesn't. Which do you think it is?

I don’t know why you’re greentexting, that’s exactly the truth.

fps games focus on first person combat, thief is focused on first person sneaking.

Who are you quoting?