Indie Dev: Indies on Steam after one year averages 25k, after the 30% Steam cut

Literally nothing good came out in july

Why yes, I rejected Epics 1 year exclusivity for my morals

See what I got?

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No fuck off I really wanted the goose game

a bunch of good goi points?

If this guy had made a game that wasn't shit, he'd make more than 25k.

>EGS is gonna kill steam with pic related
NO! NOT THE BEES! NOT THE BEES! AAAAAAAAAHHHH!

Attached: EGS curation at work.jpg (1280x720, 141K)

To claim an average of 25k is questionable.
Do that include the thousands of shovel ware asset flips and $1 machine translation ports?
How does it count for games that have been selling for years in stages of pre-post release status? What's the analytic method to bring some sense to games that sell 10 copies for $0.30 and others that sell millions for $20?

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Fair enough. Just personally I never buy indie games until like a year or so after they release when they are dirt cheap.

>just over 1k followers on steam
>publishes garbage
For one day act like this is your job.

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You would have missed out of years of Factorio and Rimworld then. Both are excellent games that had long periods of pre-release sales and great gameplay as they matched on towards that 1.0 tag.

>Brexit game
>Aesthetic game
>Bike Freeriding with procedurally generated worlds game
>Card building game
>Minecraft clone but with a meaningful story

All them more expensive than masterpieces like Hollow Knight or Terraria

$25k is pretty high for median when you consider more than 50% of games are asset flips/scams.
faggot devs trying to get riled up or "dunk" on EGS for no reason at all are worse than anyone going exclusive.

Jerry Seinfeld is going to be so mad.

>complains about only making $25k
>when he would've made $35k instead had he received no cut
>would've received $10k max if sold on EGS because of limited userbase, not including tims money
also
>relies on streamers to market games
>when only a low % of streamer viewers buy games after watching a streamer play it unless its free like fortnite
>doesn't actually put resources into marketing to get your game out there
>game like Hypnospace outlaw has a niche audience to begin with since it isn't a well established genre like a platformer or "vehicle simulator"
Hypnospace Outlaw is a fun game but good god you must have brain damage or some shit

I wish I could make an indie game and sell out to Epic for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
At that price point, I wouldn't give a shit about sales. Seems pretty comfy.

>good games do well
>bad games do bad
>REEEEEEE BUY OUR BAD GAMES YOU NAZI BIGOT

I think Terraria might be the best value for money I ever got for a game. I paid like 5 bucks for it and played it for over 100 hours at least

>every game should succeed
holy shit those fucking retards not even once. If your game is shit and no one cares you lose money, that's how it works.
I fucking wish we go back to the times were you could not even patch a game and if you relesed broken shit you just went bankrupt.

marketing is a skill that many indie developers don't understand. I guess to a certain extent some AAA developers don't either.

that's a pretty high average for a platform with almost 10k new games added to it every year

Such a retarded thing to say. There is no "average" indie game. The vast majority are complete shit and make no money. The most popular ones are very rare and make tons of money. There's a few indie games that just get by. Epic only offers exclusivity deals to that top 1%

You still can! It's not hard to make a game these days, and honestly the most difficult part is planning things out and breaking down tasks into manageable pieces. Your game doesn't need to look phenomenal and doesn't have to be 'pixelshit' if you're an incompetent artist. There's literally never been a better time to make a decent-enough game and cash in on exclusivity.

Epic doesnt pay for shit games

Is there a reason why Tim is forcing exclusivity? Like, why can't you sell a game on both Epic and Steam? You EGS shills always go quiet when this question is asked.

So that people will chose EGS over Steam
why is that even a question

see

That seems silly. Wouldn't you want to offer a better service, instead of using exclusives? Epic has the money, so can't they at least do both? I'm still waiting on that shopping cart.

I'd honestly prefer people like that to just fuck off to Epic

Where do they get those figures? Risk of Rain 2 released (in early access even) a few months ago and it sold a boatload of copies.
Do they really expect people to buy their crappy pixelshit sholverware that looks like it was made by a grade schooler to sell a lot? The average indie game in Steam is a piece of shit.

Matter of fact is, I highly doubt they would even be offered an Epic exclusivity deal. They should be glad they can make $25k making bottom of the barrel crap.

Are you retarded? Epic is trying to break a practical monopoly by moneyhatting exclusives so people will be in their ecosystem. Same shit Sony did when they entered the industry.
No matter what reddit tells you, you can't just break a monopoly by making a good product.

Fucking this

>maek game receev moni
NO. You either come up with something original, with heart, and soul not some half assed take on a dying genre (card gaem, 2d sidescrolling 'metroidvania', another fucking roguelike) and build an audience. Then maybe once you've shipped something more than passingly enjoyable you can reap something in the way of remuneration for your efforts, but even then, no fucking guarantees.

Shit, I don't even think M&B Bannerlord is worth paying for and look how long that shit has been in development.

The average includes all those asset flip and absolute garbage games that nobody touches, right?
25k is way more than I would have expected.

>Wouldn't you want to offer a better service, instead of using exclusives?
no? When is EGS ever going to be a better service? Steam is fine, using another store is just a pain in the ass, nobody will willingly switch, you need exclusives to make people do it

yeah falcon age is going to hit it big

See user, when a game is available on both EGS and Steam, customers will look at the launchers and stores themselves because they'll want the best deal that they can get. This obviously will make EGS look bad, so to avoid this problem, they pay money to force games to go exclusive

Epig doesn't want them.

This. Why does Yea Forums pretend not to understand how gaming works?

Switch is garbage outside of its Nintendo exclusives and/or third party promised exclusives that sometimes get ported like Octopath

THIS made $25k

And they have the nerve to complain? They should be grateful that anyone would even bother paying for this

Attached: indie.png (1429x880, 1.41M)

>No matter what reddit tells you, you can't just break a monopoly by making a good product.

You also can't do it without making a good product.

Bullshit. If EGS was atleast half as good as steam and/or sold their own games exclusively instead of paying devs to take their games off steam, this wouldnt be an issue

It would be an issue even if EGS was BETTER than Steam because everyone already uses Steam already and people have little incentive to switch, because it's just a fucking store, there's a limit to how good a service it can be

If EGS was 1:1 with steam in features, nobody would use it and justify their huge library as to why

Epic is solving this on two fronts: The one year exclusives, and the free games

> you can't just break a monopoly by making a good product
So you want to break a monopoly with absolute shit instead?

>Is there a reason why Tim is forcing exclusivity?
Tim's talked about this over and over and over.

There have been a number of competitors to Steam, including huge companies like EA and Ubisoft's stores, and none of them have even come close to rivaling Steam.
Tim believes that things like exclusive games and free game promotions are the only way to break Steam's "monopoly" long term.

>Wouldn't you want to offer a better service, instead of using exclusives?
What exactly do you mean by "better service?"
Most people would rather play and own games on Steam because it's much bigger. Everyone knows and uses Steam, why use anything else?
What kind of features could outweigh that value?

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He probably just threw up the average sales for his games specifically and is trying to pass it off as the general average

When he says average he also includes the absolute bottom of the barrel that sees no sales.
Of course he's going to offer no solution to this except "muh revenue share" while ignoring that hosting these games on EGS is not an option anyway. Just wait.

>Why yes, I rejected Epics 1 year exclusivity for a measly 25k, muh morals
epic by their own admission wouldn't even offer these shitty indie devs a deal

Tim rage quit the pc scene ages ago and declared it dead because of piracy.

Steam came in and showed that was dumb, so tim thinks he's entitled to this and is trying to push steam out of the market.

>Steam users can't use epic!
Why switch? Why not give people a reason to use both?
Why not share the same userbase as steam?
>Epic is solving this on two fronts: The one year exclusives, and the free games
>exclusives
Which are coming to steam anyway. This december, two of epic's games will lose their exclusivity
>free games
>on a platform where literally everything is free

>Publisher publishes their rough sales data of all 4 (four) games they have published
>All of them except their latest has DLC and I'd personally at least never buy any of them
>Don't believe Epic would even attempt to get the exclusivity rights to any of these games that all seem to lack broad audience appeal which is further backed up by such rough sales data

>ThIs Is HoW MuCh AlL InDiEs MaKe In A YeAr

Attached: (B-A)Yu_Yu_Hakusho_-_01_(A424940E).mkv_snapshot_10.36_[2015.06.22_00.42.34].jpg (640x480, 62K)

The irony is that he made piracy fashionable again at the same time.

>Which are coming to steam anyway. This december, two of epic's games will lose their exclusivity

I literally said they were one year exclusives. No need to restate what I just said.

Epic shills have to sell it as a one or the other kind of deal, because the idea that customers can and will use multiple launchers if theres a good reason to kills their "we need exclusives to fight with steam" argument.

steamcharts.com/app/433550

>Steam drones say they'll buy your game
>They don't

OH NO NO NO NO NO

Attached: darq 3.jpg (1636x713, 62K)

You have brain damage.

I will never understand why people think Tim is trying to break up the supposed monopoly out of the goodness of his heart for the game industry, instead of just trying to replace steams market dominance with his own market dominance.

Nobody uses Origin and Uplay outside of the exclusives, proving Epics point.

>B-b-but GOG

Literally no exclusives and failed competition to Steam

>B-b-but gog not fail!!!1

tweaktown.com/news/65367/gog-com-barely-making-profit/index.html

gog.com/news/conclusion_of_the_bfair_price_packageb_program

Given that majority of steam releases are either:
>asset flips
>low quality porn
>""""art"""" games
no wonder average is down.

why do you even care about their argument
i don't care if tim needs to buy exclusivity for games or not to turn his fortnite money into game distribution rent
just use tim's list to compile a list of devs you don't need to buy games from

>epicshills parade a game that rejected them as a failure
>dev promises free DLC
>Tim proceeds to come sniveling back with the 'I knew it was inside you all along!' line
>Dev proceeds to shove his thick indie cock up Tim's ass

OH NONONONONONONONO

Attached: epicBTFO.jpg (831x894, 109K)

>average (median)

those are not the same thing. Nigga doesnt even know fundamental terms. Why should I trust him?

It's because Gaben is their "friend"/father figure they never had growing up

Reminder Steam drones are literally brainwashed and have been since they first played Orange Box in 2007 (and I'm giving them huge credit on this)

Attached: gaben faggot.jpg (810x1018, 205K)

So you can't improve the story WHILE making exclusives? Why can you only do one or the other?

>the idea that customers can and will use multiple launchers if theres a good reason to
This is bullshit.
Literally nobody buys games based on "launcher features."

Can you name even ONE example when this has ever happened before?

Attached: 1554592703338.jpg (640x646, 36K)

Steam vs. piracy

FREE TIBET FREE TIBET NANKING BEST DAY OF MY LIFE
WINNIE THE POO UNIT 731 DID NOTHING WRONG CHING CHONG *DIES IN ELEVATOR*

The average indie game does absolutely not deserve more than 25k, what's this guy's point?

Or maybe because storefronts fucking suck and having one is bad enough.

Based Steam preventing the industry to crash. Garbage game devs with their garbage games need to get the fuck out quick

Lmao I missed that one. Well what can you expect from someone who made this and has the nerve to complain he didn't sell enough copies

>redditspacing
Faggot shills for Epic. No surprise
>Nobody uses Origin and Uplay outside of the exclusives
>exclusives funded and developed by them instead of moneyhatting completed projects

fucking BASED

>If EGS was 1:1 with steam in features, nobody would use it and justify their huge library as to why

If epic was 1:1 with Steam, had exclusives and free games people would be much more inclined to use it.

Nigger there are tons of Steam games that use Steamworks for online support and Workshop for easy modding.

That's not choosing between launchers, that's choosing a launcher over no launcher.

The same way that spotify and netflix drove down music and movie piracy, people mainly just want the convenience of getting access to products with the least friction possible and Steam provided this.

Steam drones unironically don't remember a time before digital installers

>Spend a day making 10 shitty game maker games and release one every month
>Make $200,000 a year minimum

>$30-$35 for games that should cost $10~
Sounds about right

tell us more about your analog installer bro

Here's an idea EGS shills. buy exclusives AND improve the quality of your store. How's that for an idea? Some ideas include:

>shopping cart
>better browsing of your store
>reducing the bloat of the launcher
>better account security
>NOT banning people for buying too many games
>not removing their games from the account if they ever get uninstalled
>further streamlining the refund process

There, no facebook shit, no trading or cards, or any of the evil stuff you hate steam for. Is this so much to ask?

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Sure, but that's not an argument against EGS exclusive games.

isn't median a type of average? 25k is still pretty high nonetheless anyway considering the amount of garbage on steam.

He still made $90k from that game alone

They made one mistake: All of their exclusives are shit games no one but a retard would buy. Put then Tencent cash to use and go buy Nintendo if you want the EGS to survive. You'll see an instant increase when that userbase of mindless 12 year olds suddenly realizes the only way they can get their Marios and Smashes is with the EGS on PC.

EGS doesn't need parity with Steam if it just used the lower revenue share to sell games at a lower price than Steam, but nope.
The additional profits just go into the pockets of publishers and the shitty storefront with no features is just the icing on top.

If they offered consumers ANYTHING aside from free 3 year old indie games they wouldn't be so disliked.

You asked me for a time when people bought a game for launcher features and I provided one.

>They made one mistake: All of their exclusives are shit games no one but a retard would buy.

Tons of people are going to buy Borderlands 3 day 1 or have already day 0

>B-b-but retards

Yes, I get it - but I think the people who bought Artifact are far more retarded, and we have proof hundreds of thousands of Steam drones bought that

Attached: artifact stats.jpg (1628x811, 238K)

Because no one is going to abandon a huge library of cheap-ass games that all of their friends already also have, for Chinese spyware with the only selling point being a flash in the pan overnight fad game like Fortnite.

You're missing a decimal point and a couple of zeroes there. And/or you're seriously underestimating the amount of sheer shit indies.

Boo fucking hoo.
Also reminder that Epic is only going to keep generously covering the entire expected revenue for indie games for exclusivity until/if the store has gathered enough user base. Just like Steam did with the insane sales at the beginning.
So even if Epic becomes successful, indies will make around the same too.

Don't ignore my post you jackass.

People definitely use Steam for the huge library and convenience. I think people that complain about using several launchers are manchildren, but the Epic Games store kinda sucks. And it's definitely scummy to announce games as having a universal release date on all platforms and then taking it back because of an exclusive deal. But I guess you could blame that more on the publishers of the games agreeing to it.

Bunch of cucks... He's replying to Timmy's tweet and it's clearly mocking the dev with that dumb emoji so the dev just dabbed back at him. Now if epic doesn't take his game then it shows how hypocritical Tim is with his "For the Devs" bullshit he's been spewing all this time.

don't cry for him

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>with the only selling point being a flash in the pan overnight fad game like Fortnite.

Coming from a Steam drone who said Apex Legends would kill Fortnite, this just makes you seem retarded

Attached: fortnite twitch.jpg (1323x861, 428K)

BL3 is going to be shit and only retards will buy it. Artifact was also shit. A game selling a lot or a little matters not if the game is shit, because anyone with taste will not be playing it, and who the fuck wants to play with people who have shit taste?

>average 25k
that's insane, considering how much literal zero-effort trash is put on the store
i thought it'd be something like $5k where 90% about 100 bucks and the good ones get an insane amount

>playing any of that garbage
Disgusting.

>>not removing their games from the account if they ever get uninstalled

This literally never happened, please quit believing Steam drone propaganda. I uninstalled EGS after I played through Subnautica, but had to reinstall it for Slime Launcher. Guess what? Still own and can play Subnautica

>create shit
>surprised nobody buys it

Apex isn't even steam you fucking retard

Average is All the profits divided by the number of individual units. The median is the 50% marker. ie Half the units made less than the median and the other half made more than the median.

ANSWER THE REST OF THE POST. WHERE IS MY SHOPPING CART FOR EGS?

How are you judging a game that hasn't been released?

Why is it that you expect people to call you a nazi bigot for disagreeing with them about the performance of a games on specific sales platforms? Do you often spend your time talking about how much you hate gays, trannies, black people and jews? Perhaps if you'd like people to stop doing that you should stop first.

>Apex isn't even steam you fucking retard

Which made it all the more confusing Steam drones were shilling the "Fortnite killer"

Attached: cringe valve fans.png (1608x1029, 148K)

I know average usually refers to the mean, but I thought the mean and median were both types of average.

>played the previous games
>gameplay trailer
>fucking gearbox

It's common shitposter tactics to ignore 90% of a post and take a few words out of context just to keep the illusion up that they are on top of the argument.
That's the point when you know you are wasting your time and should bail from the conversation, especially on an anonymous image board. Optionally you can call him a faggot before you do, but honestly it doesn't matter.

Okay, if you want to ignore all the context, good job, I guess.
The point of the question was to establish whether launcher-exclusive features alone are enough to change consumers' choice of store.

>the only selling point being a flash in the pan overnight fad game like Fortnite.
Two other selling points:
1. Exclusive games that you can't purchase on Steam.
2. Free games.

>it's definitely scummy to announce games as having a universal release date on all platforms and then taking it back because of an exclusive deal.
It's pretty shit for the consumer, but I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it scummy, solely for the fact that Epic guarantee matching the revenue for a certain number of units.
That's a huge deal for indie devs, especially the retarded ones that went full-time without any real backup or safety.

This is the same kind of argument you epicfags make when you pray that a decent looking game made on unreal will end up as an exclusive

Anyone who says Fortnite killer is a faggot without a brain. Fortnite haters are most likely all 16-20 year olds thinking they're cool for shitting on anything popular.

Am i retarded? Isn't 25k good for some fucking trash indie game?

tell us more about your favorite game fortnite, definitely above the age of 18 poster

What am I supposed to say? A shopping cart would be nice, but it's not something I think about much outside of Steam sales where I buy a bunch of games.

Seeing as every other shill ITT is ignoring my post, and the one guy who responded said that I was a steam shill, it looks like you're right on the money.

Screw this, I'm gonna go play some Star Wars: empire at War.

depends on how worthless your time is

>masterpieces like Hollow Knight or Terraria

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>a shopping cart would be nice, but

No, there is no "but". If Fortnite is making Epic games billions of dollars, they can afford to hire a programmer to put in a shopping cart. Saying that it's not important and that I'm a "filthy fucking steamcel" for asking about it, only makes you look like a jackass.

>Mike Rose.
Do you have any real indie devs and not some SJW cunts who make "games"?

>It's pretty shit for the consumer, but I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it scummy

For me, it almost feels like lying, It just rubs me the wrong way. I'd be completely ok if they said it was an EGS exclusive from the start.

>chug out new indie game every six months
>get 50k on average
>cry online

I don't play Fortnite, just don't like people that dislike anything popular.

>There have been a number of competitors to Steam, including huge companies like EA and Ubisoft's stores, and none of them have even come close to rivaling Steam.
>Tim believes that things like exclusive games and free game promotions are the only way to break Steam's "monopoly" long term.
Origin, Uplay, Battle.net, etc have their own exclusives that you will never get on Steam and don't come close to the userbase of Steam because Steam has been around the longest and became the consumer's choice by being the overall best
EGS isn't gonna have any fucking lasting impact on the market wasting millions of dollars to get temporary exclusives as it's one fucking sticking point and neither will giving away games that you can only download once for free

Epic store will keep adding features, it's really not a big deal.

I remember when Steam didn't have user reviews until 2010, and they were only positive at first

>B-B-BUT

No, shut up. Amazon had user reviews way before Steam. It was the standard for stores for years, and it took Steam till 2010? Pretty slow and sloppy.

>boredom knight
>masterpiece

And Epic is trying to compete with Steam in 2019 without those features. Almost a full 10 years later.
I wouldn't even call Epic "sloppy" or "pretty slow" I would say absolutely pathetic.

you would need to release the "average" indie game and not "light borrower" or "radiis"
go find the csv file released when they were leaking playcounts from the achievement system to see how many games sell

lol seething

Maybe they don't need anti consumer garbage features that make you stop thinking about purchases because GOTTA FILL THAT CART BRO

>What kind of features could outweigh that value?
Something that makes it easier for devs to do their thing, and to reach a larger audience. Latter can be done by having the platform doing the dev's advertising for them, which EGS is kind of sort of getting started on already. Former's a much harder one.

How about offering a worldwide network with its own hardware and lines, ensuring that as long as a player can connect to one of its endpoint things like lag and bandwidth become nonissues. Throw in free storage space, bandwidth, and an autoupdater system too, so players can get their downloads and updates with minimum hassle and the dev doesn't need to host anything themselves. Oh wait Valve already did that.

Modding tools, mod hosting, and a mod installer integrated into the platform? No wait Valve got that one too.

Developing and maintaining their own engine, and giving plenty of support to devs who wish to use it? Valve already did this with Source, but that shit's pretty old and it was never very flexible. Epic focusing on shilling Unreal Engine and treating the EGS as an interesting extra available for UE games could work. Would be better PR, too. "We help people develop their dream projects (and sell them at our store too)" sounds a lot better than anything involving their current cash for exclusives tactic.

what kind of retard thinks a shopping cart is anti consumer...

I have no doubt the shopping cart as well as the meta game shit like getting gold coins has hugely contributed to Steam drones buying games they never played like pic related

Attached: disney afternoon steam.jpg (1005x726, 153K)

No. "Mean" and "Average" are the same thing but "median" and "average" are completely different statistical markers.

>shopping cart
>anti consumer
>shopping cart
>make you stop thinking about purchases
Did you have a stroke?

So is epic even more slow and sloppy

>better account security
You can use an authenticator app for your account, that's the same level of security as you get on steam

The "average" indie game on steam is complete fucking trash though.

I'm not talking about fucking hollow knight or actual pixel art effort games, but fucking shit like gone homo or fucking no effort default tileset RPGMaker games.

Steam is fucking bloated with this trash.

store.coolmathgames.com/
This store just got released and already has a fucking shopping cart

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It could be. Origin and uPlay still don't have user reviews either.

They are.
This guy is just being dumb.
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/average

>shopping cart is anticonsumer
He's right it just shot me for being a consumer fuck shopping carts

>games

Misspelled walking simulators.

>>Steam is fucking bloated with this trash.

And Steam drones are fine with this, even despite how it effects other games

kotaku.com/super-meat-boy-is-the-latest-port-to-sell-better-than-e-1822056498

>The Switch though has seen a number of ports sell better than anticipated. Despite already being out for over three years, the Switch version of Shovel Knight sold better than any of the other versions at launch according to its developer, Yacht Club Games. Wonder Boy: The Dragon’s Trap, Forma.8, and other games have seen similar success. SMG Studios noted in September that Death Squared sold more on the Switch in the first three days than all other platforms it released on combined, while the same thing happened to the Zelda-like exploration game Oceanhorn. And then there was SteamWorld Dig 2, Immage & Form’s action platformer that sold 10 times more on Switch than on Steam.

Holy based.

>median
holy shit they're over compensated considering all that absolute shovelware

retard that doesn't know what a shopping cart does

Ok thanks. Clearly I don't know what I'm talking about.

Not really Steam's fault. When book publishing got easy, bookstores got filled with bad quality crap too.

>Why switch? Why not give people a reason to use both?
its about forming habits. People will use the store they're habitually aquainted to use. Plus what is easier, being competitive with Steam when they already have the habit advantage or being exclusive?

Improving the store is so incredibly insignificant compared to doing exclusives. People don't go to a store for a nice experience they just want to buy their fucking games

>>retard that doesn't know what a shopping cart does

It makes the average person buy more than they need

Attached: food snacks.jpg (539x722, 126K)

Any pajeet can make a storefront with a shopping cart in a few months by copy/pasting from stack exchange.

Why do you even care, you probably just gonna pirate it anyways.

they already were
tons of shit books by "dean koontz," "stephen king," "tom clancy."

And yet EGS STILL doesn't have one

they didn't play this shitty disney game ergo me right.
Haven't you even considered whether or not people wouldn't want to do some gay ass time trial shit for achievements in the first place

>For me, it almost feels like lying, It just rubs me the wrong way. I'd be completely ok if they said it was an EGS exclusive from the start.
I see where you're coming from. It's definitely shit for consumers, but I imagine the reason some switches are announced late is because the offer was made late.

So you can't list any. Got it.
The fact is, even if EGS matched all those features you listed and then some, if people could buy a game on Steam, they'd have no reason to pick EGS.

That's why Tim wants exclusives.

I'm not saying it's steam's fault (although it kind of is) or that it even matters.

What matters is that the "average" of these games make 25k, so you could literally just fucking throw out shit every six months, see what sticks and make 50k yearly, but that fag in the OP is fucking crying about it.

Good to know american public education taught me something

>Haven't you even considered whether or not people wouldn't want to do some gay ass time trial shit for achievements in the first place

There's achievements for beating the games and they're not much better

I'm talking about the 1600's-1700's.

Nobody has ever explained to me why a shopping cart is anti consumer after saying it. Care to elaborate, retard?

it isn't valve's fault that people that download steam to play csgo or dota 2 don't buy baby platform games as much as switch owners

you didnt even read the definition you posted. In statistics the words arent the same as general use. Screenshot in OP was using it as if its interchangeable when they are not in his analysis. This is highschool level knowledge.

here ill even spoon feed you:

tripsavvy.com/median-vs-average-what-the-difference-2682237

Attached: Screenshot_20190828-014801_Chrome.jpg (1439x1316, 441K)

People aren't buying games on release anymore or even buying games at all
They wait for sales or spend their time on f2ps

Games aren't games for people to play on their off time. Most people only play games for social experience like mobas or fortnite

Good games usually sell well more than ~1,500 copies or whatever.

And that's what indies have chosen to do
>vapid Streamer bait games
>"ironic" buggy shovelware like Goat Simulator (Bee Simulator is now Epic exclusive OHNONONO)
>"Early Access" RPGMaker junk made in an afternoon (25k for a single afternoon sounds like good money to me nerds) and zero intention of actually updating it, ever
The funniest thing is extrapolating into how much money the AAA industry bleeds every year since they cost exponentially more to make but 99% aren't making big bucks either

The only single player games people buy are the meme games

For games not attached to a "beloved ip", or the latest meme game the game sells poorly
Even if the game is good it won't sell well if it fails to be "appealing"
See Prey, Hitman 2, The Evil Within 2, or the latest bomb, Control

>emote
people who put emotes or “lmao” or the equivalent at the end of a twitter post are always hiding an emotion

>extrapolating into how much money the AAA industry bleeds every year since they cost exponentially more to make but 99% aren't making big bucks either
AAA games don't bleed money, they make money. If they bled money they'd quickly go out of business because they cost alot to make

Why do indiefags expect Valve to market their games for them and think it's Valve's fault that their games don't sell?

This AAA titles blow most of their budget on just marketing.

So fags don't freak out every time they choose to take a deal with epic

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>90
Is this some sick joke

Hmm

>average steam cart full of garbage

some of those appear of questionable legality, sir, and a few of them appear to not even be human

hello sir would you mind deleting that pic?

>Why do indiefags expect Valve to market their games for them and think it's Valve's fault that their games don't sell?

Being on Steam used to actually mean something. A lot of you zoomer Steam drones don't remember this or pretend Steam was always a trash dump for some reason.

It's 2019, devs and publishers should know how to market their own games, especially with all the social media sites.
This fuck is at PAX instead.

give me loli please

because they are all awful people

You mean before Greenlight?

yeah strategy first was a valuable asset to gaming

if youre an indie dev you need to market it as much as you can

>Being on Steam used to actually mean something.
Not really and I remember when people were really annoyed about HL2 requiring Internet to finish installing

>indie games

They are mostly shit. 25k for mostly shit games is a lot.

It used to. And then indies whined "waaaah why aren't we being let in???"

It's their own damn fault so fuck them.

>Not really

You're a retard who doesn't know shit. A game like Braid would have been buried today, but back in 2008 on XBLA and 2009 on Steam, it had 0 competition and was allowed to thrive.

Didnt people shit on steam back in the day because it was seen as an inconvenience?

>And then indies whined "waaaah why aren't we being let in???"
lol no
there were no "indies"
Steam (and Unity) literally created the indie market by making it easy to make and sell games

sloths

Ah yes
Surely without Steam, they would make whole 28k

>i too like to buy my groceries one at a time

Shut up, imbecile. We are talking after aquaria and before greenlight.

>it's another episode of "I'M ENTITLED TO 100K SALES ON THE FIRST MINUTES OF GAME'S RELEASE. VOLVO BAD THE GAME DIDN'T SOLD." shitshow
Indie games were a mistake.

>minecraft has more viewers than CS:GO, dota 2, TFT, and hearthstone

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>a practical monopoly
Because GoG, uPlay, Origin, Discord, Humble Store, etc. don't exist?
Epic is pulling the "get big fast" strategy so they have a constant money maker once Fortnite runs out of steam (no pun intended).
Epic doesn't want to break the monopoly, they want to _become_ the monopoly.

so am I

>Aquaria

That shit would be BURIED today, though Steam drones are still in denial

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Reminder

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this, also the fact that they're doing it in the worst way possible
essential features being put on delay while throwing money at exclusives will only end up making more people choose piracy

>Because GoG, uPlay, Origin, Discord, Humble Store, etc. don't exist?
Sort of. Their market share combined is nothing compared to Steam.

There wasn't that much competition, exactly. There are a lot more indiedevs shitting up the market and not because Valve used to advertise games. They just made it easier to publish games on a commercial platform

No shit? Spoilers, retard: It wasn't an amazing game. It was good at the time and good for indie devs but it wasn't amazing. It's no surprise all these devs, with their equally meh games, are not finding success now that there are dozens of them.

he means truly important works like defcon and rag doll kung fu
wait until you play world of goo

> Make shit games
> Where the fuck my money at

>exclusive games and free game promotions
uPlay and Origin do free game promotions all the time, and since they've launched pretty much every Ubisoft and EA game has been exclusive to them (though Ubisoft sells their games on Steam they're essentially keys for uPlay.

it should have been buried, because it's a piece of shit

The fact that you know them proves how effective Steam was (unless you googled them like a zoomer bitch and don't know anything)

>and none of them have even come close to rivaling Steam.
Because they're fucking garbage.
uPlay used to delete your savegames/games for at least a year for no reason.

Minecraft is pretty popular and Dota2 is always ded for at least one week after The International

Walled gardens are based
PS4 was one of my best purchases
Sony only makes great games and as long as I buy the first party stuff, I never run into trash

what data is this person even using or is this just supposition?

Yes the features I listed wouldn't matter to a consumer, except for the marketing thing which Epic already does. I don't think any amount of store features could convince people to switch out of Steam use.
But those features might convince more than a few devs to prioritise EGS over Steam. Get the devs invested in Epic's ecosystem over Steamworks. Add easy to develop for features that require Epic's systems. Aim for games to become so entangled with Epic's systems that a Steam release would have to rip out features. If you can pull this off and end up selling superior versions of the very same products, that's a million times more effective than any sort of exclusivity deal spam .

>calculating AVERAGE
Absolute fucking dipshit has no fathomable idea how fucking numbers work. If he seriously calculated an AVERAGE then he has no validity and no reason to even be a thread

I somewhat agree (though there are a few autistic hold outs that pretend Braid is good), but Steam and XBLA proved that if you focused on good, quality releases, you can push any game. When you start allowing everything? You fuck it up.

Don't forget not to buy too much at once or you'll get banned from the store!

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i sure am glad that my head is full of garbage trivia about garbage

rerolling so i don't have to fight over same waifu with other guy

We don't know how much EGS's market share is compared to them though. There's hardly any sales data to go on, and devs like Deep Silver have only posted vague results that mean almost nothing.

>pretty much every Ubisoft and EA game has been exclusive to them
The key distinction is that those are 1st-party games.
EGS is primarily courting 3rd-party exclusives.

How can anyone defend open steam at this point?

>average
who gives a shit

no what happened was people go pulled into hype about "indie games" making abandoned genres because they could be done by a small team of people and released digitally for nothing, but now releasing a 2d platforming that looks like it was drawn by a 6 year old isn't novel anymore

>Same shit Sony did when they entered the industry.
Not really.
Paying for development or get people develop for your (hardware) platform is quite different than just paying for a timed exclusivity contract, especially if it's on PC and almost finished.

>Do you often spend your time talking about how much you hate gays, trannies, black people and jews?
Not the guy you're responding too but I do lol

i love this touyhou and her cute nipples

shit taste

Earlier user was talking about the printing press.

But, digital publishing and on-demand printing has made shit even worse. At least with shit like "your least favourite author here" you can be pretty sure the author wrote a book. It might be shit, but it's a fucking book. Now that you can get published at a click of a button, you have to deal with shit like a hundred useful phrases in insert language here "language" books, where the phrases are from the first google result for hundred useful english phrases, the translations are courtesy of google translate, and the book's available in just as many languages as what google translate happens to have, minus english.

that's not what a monopoly is don't you work with words for a living

not seeing the connection between hating subhumans and being called a nazi

Shit "artists" with no actual love for art, only for huge money you can get from it. Maybe a small dose of narcissism.

>But those features might convince more than a few devs to prioritise EGS over Steam.
Which features? The ones you listed that Steam already has?
If Steam and EGS offered the same features and you can be on both stores, why would a developer "prioritize" EGS?

>Add easy to develop for features that require Epic's systems.
Like what? You still haven't listed any.
And even if, for some reason, a developer "prioritized" EGS, they would still want to be on both stores to maximize revenue.

Ultimately, in your scenario, the consumer has no good reason to pick EGS over Steam and the status quo remains the same.

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OMEGALUL

I've never heard of a single guy this game has made.

Only games matter
You are only consumer, fucking cattle
YOU WILL EAT WHAT IS GIVEN TO YOU
FUCKING SLAVES

GOG has been trying to make Galaxy specifically for these multiplayer game's needs. It's just it actually takes a lot of hardware and techs and money to set it up and support. Gosh what does Valve do with the cut of the money they make I wonder?

>steam only has the infrastructure to support game
>monopoly
These people are so fucking stupid it hurts

You dirty chinks still pushing EGS huh? Should probably focus on not dying from your polluted air but okay

99 percent of indie games are absolute dogshit
The fact they’re averaging 25k is pretty impressive

there is such a surplus of games now that you can really just tell anyone to fuck off unless you have some desperate need to buy what other people are buying

>NOOOOO WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE ALLOWED TO NOT BUY MY SHITTY LOW EFFORT GAME
>THEY TOLD ME I WAS GOING TO BE RICH

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what a retard
modders are already allowed to be paid, it's called donations

Apparently rub it up their ass according to epicbugs

So what does this nigger want? Every indie game to magically do well and make money? Video games are entertainment, and you take the risk of people not being entertained by the game you’ve made and it not selling. It sucks, but that’s the reality and why you need that passion there so you aren’t just expecting money from the gamble of making the game on the first place.

What, do they just think Epic is going to give devs money forever just for putting their games on their platform?

Donations are too voluntary

We don't, but we do know that the other stores have been unable to meaningfully displace Steam's spot at #1, and we know that they're trying a very different strategy.
That doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work, but that's why they're pursuing their current strategy.

No one else has come even remotely close, so why do what everyone else did?

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I just want the indie bubble to burst desu. it's gotten too saturated, allowing too many jabronis to get their shit on a legitimate platforms is not a good thing. crappy lazy shit like Celeste should've never gotten any attention.

Surplus of SHIT maybe

how many jobs do you do for donations

>practical monopoly
I swear the more you shills try to come up with new arguments the more retarded your speech gets

>All them more expensive than masterpieces like Hollow Knight or Terraria

Terraria has massively thrown off the pricing curve of all games.

That, and now that the genres aren't abandoned anymore there's actual competition.

When you make a game do you do it because you want to share something and gain an audience or just to make money?
You'll get chink money in epic, yes but will probably not sell because of the niche so a lot of people will not know your game.

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>@pax
They all have money to waste on those conventions lol.

I make indie games(I hate this term now because of all those low T faggots who flooded the scene) and the last thing I would do is wasting money. This guy is a retard and just want to be a victim for publicity. He should make a better game and invest his funko pop and convention money into good targeted banner ads and prerolls so he can stop crying about a shitty ROI. I fucking hate this industry.

This. There's so much shovel ware that I'd expect an actual average than someone didn't pull out of their ass to end up much lower.

>So what does this nigger want? Every indie game to magically do well and make money? Video games are entertainment, and you take the risk of people not being entertained by the game you’ve made and it not selling. It sucks, but that’s the reality and why you need that passion there so you aren’t just expecting money from the gamble of making the game on the first place.
extremely red pilled
you don't deserve money for your game just because you put in time and effort.

gamers are super entitled, what a surprise

>modding a fucking video game
>job

Both the average AND the median are dragged down by a gigantic flood of absolute garbage almost no one buys, this measure is worthless, fuck off.

...

what do you do for a living, user

anal slave

which makes 25k surprisingly high. That statistic honestly works against the OP

Oh god gimme dat yoshi

>Always make racist or sexist jokes whenever I get the chance
>This image
I have no idea why I feel some sort of empathy. That just seems cruel beyond my comprehension despite me saying things 10 times worse.

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what do you do
i want to imagine how long it'll be before your job is automated and you end up as an anal slave for real

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They watched that GDC talk saying you should price your game in the $20-30 mark even if it's incredibly rough and not worth that at all, clearly.

>without steams cut at all they would be making $35k-36k per year
so what do they want? do they want to be paid more than the cost of the game when it sells? that's the only way they'll get more money because it's not like there's enough gamers with time and money to buy all of these dozens and dozens of indie games that come out every single day

>we care about the devs
>BUT YOU CANNOT HAVE YOUR GAME ON OUR PLATFORM UNLESS YOU ARE EXCLUSIVE TO US, FUCK YOU IF YOU WANT TO SELL TO THE MOST PLAYERS POSSIBLE

>masterpieces like Hollow Knight

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>Steam invest their earnings into developing new technologies and sharing their results for their partners so that they are able to implement features easily into their games through their environment without having to do any of the legwork
>Somehow, they are criticized for this

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>authentification code lasts 30 minutes

>median sales on a platform that hosts thousands of games
this is basically just lying with statistics to make steam look bad in the face of competitors
those games are gonna land somewhere

>WHY iSN'T MY PAPERS PLEASE CLONE SELLING AS MUCH AS THE ORIGINAL

That's not a contradiction. Epic give devs much more of the revenue per sale than Steam and compensate them hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars for timed exclusivity. That looks like caring for devs to me.

Just because the exclusivity deal is also in Epic's own self-interest doesn't mean they're shitting on devs.

It's sad to see people sweep steam's accomplishments under the rug.
I used to get like 100ms ping minimum on steamworks games back in the day but steam upgraded their network api not too long ago and now my ping goes as low as 76 on the same servers. The servers didn't get any closer to me, it's just that the data is on valve's network instead of the public network.
When I play non-steam games whether I can get sub 100ms ping on servers in similar locations is totally up in the air because it's not like other companies are going to have their own global network just for games.

itch.io graveyard.jpeg

I remember there was a GDC talk recently where some no name dev explained their struggles throughout the years of game development. Before Steam came along, they would have to handle all the customer services, payment transactions and disputes, content distribution, software support and patch updates entirely themselves. Because of their lack of experience with handling anything like this, they ended up with a bunch of issues such as getting audited by the IRS. He had to higher an accountant just to keep track of the financial and avoid getting audited again. At the end of that section, he said Steam deserves whatever cut they're asking for just so that he would never have to deal with any of that again.

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They waste money on pointless features like the music player and demand a fucking THIRD of all sales. Yeah, criticism is justified, steam still sucks, it doesn't really matter that EGS sucks even more. They don't do a third of the work making or selling games, why should they get a third of the price? Why should they make so much money by doing essentially nothing that they've refused to make a real game for almost a decade? This is the faggotry your line of thought is actually justifying, the same kind of disgusting horseshit that convinced them to make Artifact instead of Half-Life 3.

shill

feel free to sell your gamemaker game on gog bro

Excellent rebuttal!

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I wrote a long rambling post with rebuttals but decided to delete it and go for short, hopefully more coherent instead. You can take this as an admission of defeat if you'd like.

Thing 1. I can't think of any way for Epic to successfully compete with the EGS and fortnite/chinese cash alone. Thus, focus on their other asset, the Unreal Engine.
Thing 2. Game versions between platforms can be rather different. Example: Skyrim. Steam version has steamworks integration for mods. Non-steam uses other methods, mostly a fanmade launcher. Players can work around this, but it's not super convenient. Players telling each other to get version X because of feature Y is a very real thing, and sometimes it involves steam integration shit.

Conclusion. If Epic can get to the point where games released on their store are more feature complete, more convenient, more anything, than the versions released elsewhere they'll be in a very good position. How they could get there probably involves the UE in some way. Exactly how they should proceed, what features they should create and promote, how to support devs, I don't fucking know. I'm trying to turn a half coherent thought into words here and it's not bloody working too well.

Indie devs today have it so fucking easy they don't know it
Part of me wants them to go flood EGS because two things will happen:
EGS won't be able to pay for exclusivity for all of them
The games would shit up the store since EGS still displays every single game on that one single page

They literally just revealed that they developed their own global network for the purpose of online gaming and they're giving developers access to their work for free so that they can make use of it.
Before that, they built the tools for VR Controls so that they marketplace isnt a sloppy unorganized mess and everyone can unite under one ecosystem.
Before that they made numerous great strides into bringing gaming on the Linux platform up to a decent respectable standard.
Then there's their cloud saving, auto updates community features, account management and security features. They have taken their cut and have reinvested it into their platform for not only their. benefit, but for the benefit of developers and consumers. And you're mad about a free MP3 player?

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>store.steampowered.com/publisher/nomorerobots

no more robots is a publisher isn't it? hypnospace outlaw was made by jay tholen (dropsy) and not the guy in the tweet...

they'll just try to colonize the next generation of consoles. their cycle is to just go to a new environment and then release their game but there, and move on to the next empty space.

I just pirated Nowhere Prophets, it's no Slay the Spire, sometimes more is less.

You mean that old boomer dev? Yeah that was a nice presentation. On top of distribution, there are also so many engines available that are either free or dirt cheap. The people who cry are all faggots who never had to put in the work.

The problem is EGS doesn't want to do that. Look at their roadmap, they can't give a fuck about simple shit like cloud saves or pre-loading so imagine them trying to support game specific features across a bunch of 3rd party games. All these features would benefit us as customers but they don't really give a fuck about us as people with wants or needs, they're in the business of selling games not providing a good customer experience.

Yeah but customers do not have a choice
You cannot go to other platforms for the games so customer choice does not matter

"Global network" is a feature for p2p games. Not only it does basically nothing, it's just another trap to make your game exclusive to steam.

Cloud saves are working okay now, not sure about pre-loading

Epic literally had to announce that there would be no fucking pre-load for Borderlands 3 lmao
twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1160763032236187654

>p2p makes you steam-exclusive
literally how

Whether or not it does something depends entirely on where you are in the world and how your ISP routes traffic, it's like those gamer VPNs that claim to lower ping.
People say 'wow this shit doesn't work at all what a scam' because their traffic is already being routed efficiently, meanwhile for people who have fucked up routing it actually works. The only way you can test this it is to take your rig and run tests in a bunch of different countries but no one in their right mind would do that.

Fortnite is boring as hell. The only interesting thing is the building.

>BREXIT simulator
Fucking kek, so this is the face of Epic shills.

Actually it's caring for publishers not devs
Unless the devs also publish the game

Okay

There is not a single feature steam provide to developers that work outside steam. So if you want to sell your games on another store you may as well just not do it since steam has like 90% market share.
wtfast please go

EGS is pretending it's curation but it's the Launcher being coded so badly they literally can't add too may games.

...

I don't remember Gabe giving a nice tidy paycheck to Bungie to make it Steam exclusive, so this retard can fuck off with the monopoly bullshit.

No battle.net no buy. It's worse than what epic is doing because it's forever exclusive. Why people don't attack bungie for this? I thought we hate exclusive games

NO ORIGIN NO BUY

He’s the one who made that talk

activision isn't their publisher anymore, bnet is only for acti/blizzard games so they have to go

not as much as you hated your t-cells

>Bawww it's steams fault that my tiny little game isn't a hit eventhough it has zero maerketting, steam should coddle ME and ME alone! Who cares about market dynamics and personal responsbility!
the majority of indies are massive entitled faggots

Ding ding ding.
The basis of everything EGS is doing is because they were looking for a way to make customers use their incredibly barebones platform without them having to invest into matching Steam's customer friendly features, saving money.

The answer to that is exclusivity deals. They probably judged that paying off devs would be cheaper than developing features and infrastructures to their storefront that matches or even exceeds Steam's. That's why their retoric has always been that "customer's don't decide the future of the platform, devs will AKA we don't care about the customer".
Not sure if they accounted to the fact that customers will see through this and will hold a grudge against them though...

This.

25K or no sale, your choose, "indie devs".

literally just dont buy the games and tell epic and devs to fuck off

No sale but who cares if Epic will cover the "lost" sales, sales that they might not even had in the first place.
The problem with this mentality is that Epic will not be paying them off forever obviously, so they kinda sell their future in the industry for one game that isn't a financial failure.

It depends on the indie dev I guess whether this is worth it, if they were only planning to make it "big" once and bail with the money, I couldn't even imagine a better scenario..

Whoa wait nigga, you implying the Imperial Gatekeeper doesn't deserve more sales than Papers, Please just because it's a clone? Because it does.

What a lot of bullshit based around title from one misleading article.

Steamdrones belive that sweeney said this
>Epic Boss Says Developers Will Decide Who Wins The Game Store Wars, Not Consumers

This is a bait title

While he said this
>[The storefront model is] nearly perfect for consumers already...There is no hope of displacing a dominant storefront solely by adding marginally more store features or a marginally better install experience. These battles will be won on the basis of game supply, consumer prices, and developer revenue sharing

This is a quote of what he said.

You fuckers just don't want to have another launcher, the rest is just mental gymnastics. Like it or not,epic is here to stay

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It's always these utter failures that epic wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole complaining about their profits on Steam. Almost like there's some other issue behind their low sales.

no one's going to buy your platformer

>customer's don't decide the future of the platform
That line is what made me go from thinking I will probably not buy any games on EGS to I will never buy any games on EGS. It's a redpilled statement that has a lot of truth to it but he's saying consumers are sheep so devs where ever devs go players will follow which I refuse to do in some cases like when bethesda planned to make doom and rage 2 bethesda store exclusive.

well if you remove all those cashgrap mobile games form the equation every indie game makes probably 200k a year.

Don't forget a bunch of indie devs started screeching at the Terraria devs on twitter when they scoffed at Epic.

They could make some GOOD games instead of the usual pixel trash/2d metroidshit

>Steam
>30% cut
It's actually more than 30% because Steam applies the cut to the price including sales tax or VAT
Example: You sell a game in the UK for £25 + £5 VAT. Steam then takes £9 (30% of £25+£5), which works out as a 36% cut of your revenue.

>that has a lot of truth to it
Does it really? It's a store that runs entirely on cash injections rather than profits. Most companies can't run a store with no customers, it makes no sense and would harm them. Epic can because they have Fortnite money and China money, but all it does is serve as a weapon to attack another store with.

Imagine how much money they have spent bribing all those devs for free game giveaways, exclusivity and more.

I don't understand. How do good indies get drowned out from steam? Good ones get propped up pretty quickly just from word of mouth alone. Just look at Lobotomy corporation how much they sold this year when the threads started back in May. The only games getting drowned out by shovelware are the shovelware themselves.

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Edmund McMillen said the same thing. After Team Meat got fucked over by Microsoft and Xbox Live, and after years and years of him self-publishing games like Gish, Steam must've been a welcome thing indeed.

I paid the same and I'm up to 415 hours (and counting).

>loss leader
Educate yourself

They expect Steam to put their shovelware up on front page and do their marketing for them.

But the Steam front page is nothing but shovelware

As one of the few that played the OP game (slay the spire look alike) all I can say it's something I enjoyed somewhat, but not something I would want to discuss here if that makes sense. Not sure how it would work outside of here when it depends on popularity for a discussion to get traction.

Ran out of ps4 games to play? There should be another one for you next year or by the end of this one.

That's fair although what people seem to forget is that the youtube reviewer scene is pretty huge these days as well as steam curators too. People are bound to find out about good indie titles one way or another.

That''s an epic exclusive?

>[The storefront model is] nearly perfect for consumers already...
He starts off wrong, as if people don't have tons of complaints about steam already. If tim knew what he was doing he would turn every one of steam's weaknesses against them starting by having EGS succeed in areas where steam fails.

>There is no hope of displacing a dominant storefront solely by adding marginally more store features or a marginally better install experience
So he decides to not have any features at all, when EGS launched they did not even have a search function. The situation is so hopeless that they decide to launch with without having a storefront that can compete with any basic web 2.0 site.

>These battles will be won on the basis of game supply, consumer prices, and developer revenue sharing
Basically a list of shit that is the absolute bare minimum list of things that can define a store.

No shit people don't want another launcher when every new one that comes out aims to be worse than the ones we already have. I never though I would see the day that we get launchers worse than Origin or Uplay but here we have EGS and the bethesda store. I already use 4 clients, if I'm gonna use more than that they better come really fucking good. Microsoft got it right by having the game pass going for $1, EGS giving out a random free games once a week doesn't compare at all.

>as well as steam curators too
What? Someone actually cares about that shit?

It does because if all the publishers decided they like epic's 88% split and they're done selling games on steam eventually people would go over, especially if they removed their old games from steam's store in the process. The only reason this isn't happening is because it doesn't make financial sense and those companies would lose money in the process unless EGS paid them for every single game and epic isn't nearly rich enough to basically buy out steam's catalog.

>steam curators too
They don't do anything except give youtubers new games to review.

F
P
B
P

>median sales for all games in a period
>20-25k AFTER cut
That's massively more than I would've thought. Just go look on the unfiltered new releases page and look at how much garbage is released on Steam every single day.

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it is absolutely fucking retarded to even attempt to break into the general pc game storefront scene at this point
like i get it if you're doing something like EA or blizzard and you have a storefront for your own games, that's fine and dandy and you pretty much guarantee your own little market slice just for that because people will come for your games
what epic is doing is like a random startup utility company opening up in the middle of your city and then trying to poach people from the service that everybody else uses and has had for decades, no one wants to deal with that shit and there's just no way that could be beneficial to the customers at the end of the day

No good game has ever drowned in shit. All the games that fail are shitty retro crap, clones, multiplayer only, ridiculously expensive for what they are or worse than something else from the same dev.

Muh curation muh visibility is a myth. An excuse for idiots.

Yeah im pretty sure that number is vastly over estimate or the idiot just cherrypicked what indiegames he wanted to calculate with

They could have won if they didn't rush their launch. Epic was so bad itch.io had a better launch.

>be indie dev
>make kickstarter for a shitty looking game that no one would ever play
>use your connections in the industry to promote your project
>collect 85 thousand dollars
>don't do anything for 3 years
>radio silence
>all the while collecting thousands in patreon donation every month

is zoe quinn the most based and business savvy indie dev ever?

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>exclusive to steam forever
post 1 (one) example

Word of mouth can and does do wonders, but I don't think it catches all the good games. There's just a shitload of indies out there, and few people willing to sift through that shit to look for nuggets of gold.

Being merely good is not enough, you have to also stand out from the crowd. If you create a decent platformer but then make it all cartoony Mario colors with cute characters, it drowns in the list of 50+ other similar looking games on Steam.

Nah games is all I care about

Aztez didn’t deserve to fail. There are some gems that get swept under the rug.

fix yourself

average has no real set in stone meaning
mean & median aren't the same thing, but median can be used as an average too

there are good games that didn't get discovered, marketing is a pretty big thing as a new indie dev

Usually, if it is actually that good compared to all the other pixelshit platformers that come out, then the people that enjoy that type of game and pay attention to new releases in the genre will see it and start shilling it across whatever websites they frequent. Celeste was popular, for example.

Most of this shit is niche as fuck anyway, if an indie dev is comparing his pixelshit RPG to Undertale and getting annoyed when it doesn't sell a tenth of that game then its their own fault.

celeste devs were already established from towerfall
they also had IGN advertise them like 2w before launch

You know the drill, I'm going to post example. Then you are going to say it's not paid. Then I'm going to say it does not matter exlucisive is exclusive. Then you will sperg out

20-25k for an indie title after the cut is amazing, especially if you don't have much of a reputation or the funds to invest into marketing.
What, are indies expecting to make millions?

Towerfall, then.

Fine, take Epic's payout. But you'll never make another profitable game again and eventually both you and Epic will run out of China's money, Chang.

>this developer
>/publisher/
>all those replies not questioning this
Yea Forums gets dumber by the day

I often see this in jap indie games which is understandable. They cannot market it outside japon reliably and the jap indie dev scene is kinda shit unless you open your ass to the big guys.

>Being merely good is not enough
Anyone who says this isn't actually good and is just making excuses

>Then I'm going to say it does not matter exlucisive is exclusive
because the argument makes no sense
you can't force a dev to sell their game somewhere else
besides there was a period when gfwl also sold 3rd party games but that store went down and the devs ended up having to choose between switching to steamworks or losing the functionally gfwl provided forever, like that happened to lost planet 2

wrong

Aztez is like a fucking flash game, dude.

they brought the game to several different conferences, can hardly compare that to simply releasing it on steam

>t all cartoony Mario colors with cute characters, it drowns in the list of 50+ other similar looking games on Steam.

I'm an aspiring indie dev. There is a literally super mario clone out there that is not selling and the dev cried on reddit and it got a lot of sales overnight.

It's not just indie games, if you want to sell something, it requires some marketing.

>make a clone of a game in an already niche genre
>complain that it doesn't sale like an AA title
What these devs fail to understand is that they make games for leftover audience. The original will always be the first choice for people to buy and your game will only be played by small number of hardcore fans who want more of the same.

sure you get money with epic but you're literally making games for no one because no one will buy them
its gotta feel bad inside
knowing you worked hard all that time to have no one enjoy your final product
sure you get to make the next one but guess what, the internet doesnt forget, hope epic will buy the next one too because you aint selling a single copy of that one either

Poor darq Dev got btfo, the subhuman is coping as fuck, based Tim
You force the Dev to publish on your platform (steam) because gayben is a subhuman who killed physical distribution and established a money laundering forced drm monopoly because he was the guy who started the bullshit with making games exclusive at all with half-life (and buying out studios to make them steam exclusive too) and teaming up with AAA publisher to kill physical distribution. Now kill yourself worthless steam drone trash, Tim is coming for you.

Matt Thorson has been making games for 15 years and shilling them/growing word of mouth in indie scene.

I get the feeling a lot of devs don't care and are just in it for the money. Devs who want their game to be popular and trendsetting will want as many people as possible to play their games so they won't go that route

Sure you can, you are the consumer and you can demand that. This whole shit is literally an outrage because devs don't do what you people want them to do. This was never about a choice, it was always about steam.
Game on steam? Good
Game not on steam? Bad

Here comes the schizo teenager who has no idea how business works with his retarded take. I guarantee you were born after 9/11 and spent your entire life playing console shit.

wow i sure do love those kinds of indie devs
>never make any interesting games
>never market their games properly so people actually know they exist
>keep crying about still getting money because they don't get 1 million dollars for their work of art
>keep crying about not enough sales even after steam stated highlighting popular and new games in monthly posts and steam labs
>eventually jump shit to epic to get free money right away without being concerned about actual sale numbers
why can't you make a game for the sake of making a game? it's always money, money money. 20k a year is not enough for you? the fuck do you need already, a giant mansion with 5 sports cars?

>you are the consumer and you can demand that
you literally cannot, companies will always act in ways that maximize profit and reduce expenses regardless of what customers want. The only time this works is when customers' wants are profitable for the company.

it's a safety net for indies
people who made super meat boy gave up everything to make the game, so if it flopped, their life would kind of be over
even if you're not in it for the money you likely still want to make at least a living wage off it

Why is this even news? Fucking weebtitty games that sell like 3k copies are constantly in Steams hightest selling new releases. Every publisher has their own launcher now and the few who dont get bought by Epic, Steam is literally just the home of indie and weebshit now and just makes money from cuts of GTA shark cards, and slavs scamming in CS and DOTA. The biggest western release on Steam in the past year was fucking Shadow of The Tomb Raider

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Safety nets are nice but in most industries there's no one out there paying you simply because you made a business and are trying to sell a product. It feels like devs are living in a fantasy land where they think it's enough to be a game dev and not have good business sense at all.

this dude can fuck off to epic for all I care

So epic drama is pointless? I agree here, point is people are not honest with themselves.

western games are dogshit now so who gives a fuck if tomb raider sold the best

I highly doubt epic offers deals to EVERYONE
they likely just browse upcoming games & offer deals to the ones they're interested in

if you make Super Macrio Bros I doubt you're going to get an offer from tim

China will grow larger.

Yeah but you still need that established word of mouth and hype. If you would release the best platformer ever in the history of gaming right now, nobody would initially buy it because its listed among hundreds of other platformers.

it is pointless, this whole saga will be decided by where people put their money

>yes i made profit
>no its never enough

Well played Steam, thanks for adding new grounds level of games to over shadow the actually good steam games.

And to the indie devs, fuck you, you've got only your selves to blame, indie games used to be 10$ and 15$ max, with games being 75% off often, there is no way I'll pay 20$+ for your shitty indie game, It made me go back to pirating.

>not wanting normies to infest and ruin a hobby
This is a good thing

>normies
>hobby
Video games are an entertainment medium that is completely accessable to anyone

Didn't they change the algorithm for recommendations so indies get cucked and people who browse the store never see their games?

Yeah but steam ponies will ignore that because muh based gaben never does anything wrong

I'm sorry you have such poor taste user.

first game I see on steam store is this store.steampowered.com/app/992640/Pagan_Online/

yeah they're not gonna be buying asset flips or IP rip offs but they're casting a wide net, plus it's not like every dev will get a cool million, I bet you could bribe a lot of indies for 100k or less for 1 year of exclusivity.

If the EGS worked like Uplay did, that is worked and was easy to use, I probably wouldn't mind it, but since EGS works like Origin, aka a piece of shit, I do fucking mind

I'm an indie game developer, ask me anything you want to know about indie developers, Steam, the market, EGS, whatever.

I would 100% take a 100k deal from epic, I'd likely just put the game on piratebay myself as soon as it launches
100k is still a fuckload of money for an indie dev

if the game turns out to be pretty good, you've already got your foot into the industry & the next game you release won't be as much of a blind leap anymore
if the game turns out shit, you basically got free money & saved yourself, can just release your next game (if you continue) under a different name

I would assume you've already released something, if so, how long did you continue offering free updates/patches to the game?
if you still do, how long has your game been out?

2 weeks, game has been out for 1 year and a half. I moved on quickly from it because I wanted to work on something else

well, that's the thing. their games are nowhere near good enough for epic to take interest (or to make good money on Steam) so they're shilling and licking tims boots in hopes of getting picked up

>open up Steam
>this is the New and Trending list
How many of these AREN'T indies?

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Tell me all about how you'd be the same level as notch if it wasn't for steam keeping you down.

Only untalented hacks give a shit about averages

if you can see these statistics, how many copies did it sell this past month in comparison to total sales

Indies averaging 25k when there's a mountain of shitty asset flip games categorized with them? That's not bad considering the dead weight actual devs are towing.

Ironically, Valve promoted Minecraft via the TF2 Blog in 2010 or something.

I don't believe that, I really like Steam. Making a successful game on Steam is a pretty predictable (but not easy) process. It's the best thing indie developers could hope for and most indie devs who keep complaining about Steam seem to take it for granted. It's important to realize that the guy in the OP has made a lot of money off of Steam though, so his comments are not necessarily complaining about it and more just stating the state of things as they are now for the average developer.

My game sold about 10000 copies and most of them happened around release. After that most copies sold happen on Steam sales. Outside of sales the game is already pretty dead selling just a few copies a day. For games that are more successful than mine and/or that keep growing over time in popularity instead of falling you generally have more copies sold in subsequent sales than on release. One of the things indie devs making higher quality games do now that they didn't before is sell their games at $20 initially, because even though less people will buy it on release, if the game is good, when you put it at 50% off on subsequent sales you're still selling it for the normal price of what an indie game would be and making way more money in the long run.

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>those five steam sale spikes
nice

how do steam sales work as a dev btw?
do they ask you "what's the lowest we can sell your game at during this sale" or something alone those lines?

You set the percentage however you want and it's done automatically. There are a few limits in place that I haven't tested so I don't know what they are entirely but otherwise it's completely under your control as a developer.

>not healthy

For whom bitch

> that is completely accessable to anyone
no they arent faggot

oh so it's not specific for each sale & you just set it once & forget (unless you wanna change it later)
guess that's a much easier system

there is no exclusivity on steam nigger
stop dodging and try to post even 1 (one) example

Did you market your game in anyway, if so how? How long did it take you to make and release?

Yes they are, any fucking retard can play video games

Based.

Do you use their forums often? I've honestly lost count of how many indie devs I've been able to talk to on steam forums. It's a chill time especially when the game is especially niche.

Also how did you market your game?

sure they can, but that doesnt make them accessable to everyone

the "average" game is also a piece of shovelware shit and doesn't get even an offer to sell out to the chinks

No, it was my first game and I didn't know how important marketing it before release was. I'd say I marketed it as much as I could for about 2 weeks before release and on the week of release and it was received by people better than I expected. For my next game I plan on mostly building the game's wish list before it's released (which I didn't do for the previous game), since it helps your game a lot on the day it's release as everyone who has it wishlisted gets an e-mail, and if you get lots of sales on day 1 the algorithm will place your game in way better positions on the store.

I used the Steam forums when the game was released but now I don't really anymore because the game is pretty dead. And I marketed it by posting about it mostly on reddit

>when only a low % of streamer viewers buy games after watching a streamer play it unless its free like fortnite
fortnite had one of the most agressive marketing campains ever that still continues to this day, you can see it just on twitch, every update change the miniature of the game to stir up interest for example

I honestly play shit chineese knockoffs cashgrab phone games with more work put into it every day

>it's steam's fault people only want to release on their platform since there's no other good platforms
huh weird

I add a bunch of pirated/emulated shit to steam for their controller support, which is pretty neat, and playtime and shit
it's pretty neat, but I don't see what I would do with a second steam

>lmao let's keep blaming steam and hopefully thing will get better.
These indie devs are fucking retarded.
Fact of the matter is any fucking shmuck these days can make a game. It's horribly accessible and all these indieshitters complaining are just feeling the brunt of the extensive surplus of utter trite that has flooded the industry. This is the market simply self-regulating itself.

Need an engine? Unreal and Unity are readily available. Too shit at that? Fuck man I guess RPGmaker shlock and shit a tier lower than that are cool too.
Need basic infrastructure for everything else? Well fuck lad Steam is there to do the rest of the heavy work for you.
Need marketing? Steam isn't enough? Thousands of fucking vidya youtubers, small as fuck game websites, and everything in-between is there are your disposal.

This isn't Steam's fault alone, though them opening the floodgates to everything highlights the reality at hand. There's just literally too many fucking games. Too many indie games. Too many mobile games. Too many AA games. Too many AAA games.

TOO MANY FUCKING GAMES
THAT'S JUST A MATTER OF FACT
YOUR GAME IS SELLING LIKE SHIT NOT BECAUSE OF SOME LARGER CONSPIRACY OR THE ALGORITHM WORKING AGAINST YOU BUT BECAUSE THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER FUCKING WANNABE DEVS OUT THERE BEING FORCED FED THE "INDIE DEV DREAM" BY GARBAGE GAME DEV CLASSES, GETTING CODDLED BY GAME JOURNOS, AND GETTING TRICKED INTO THINKING THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU WORKED HARD ON MAKING SOMETHING MEANS THAT IT DESERVES TO SELL

HEADS UP

IT FUCKING DOESN'T

That made 25k?
Fucking how? How do you build a following to get that much money off of something so bad?

way too truthpilled buddy

Average is the mean. If you mean anything but the mean, you spell it out.

That game made way more than 25k. OP guy isn't complaining about his games not doing well, just the overall state of the market.

>average
okay, so it's brought down by literal thousands of shovelware cash grab titles made by chinks and pajeets which no one ever buys? if that's the case then an overall average of 25K doesnt sound too bad, i'd wager the smaller crop of indie games that are good enough to actually deserve sales are all at least over 50K in that case

Forget Steam. Even Switch is flooded by indie garbage as well.

Any market that can be flooded will be flooded. Give shovelware trash an inch and they'll take a mile.

>That game made way more than 25k.
Yeah and I'm still asking how THAT made so much money.

Pretty much every medium suffers from this so I feel like devs need to be honest with themselves. On youtube and twitch new/small channels struggle to get views, for music new artists struggle to get airplay on the radio, small film makers struggle to sell tickets. There's only so much time to available and you can only display so many games/videos/music at a time before people get overwhelmed

wouldn't touch for free

Now that all the mods discord names got leaked on wheel site, shouldn't we try contacting them on discord? Maybe they'll do their job if they get pmed all day long.

basado tbqh

Making money off of Steam is not that hard. If the game hits above a certain threshold of quality and the devs know how they need to market games on Steam the game will likely make more than this 25k mean mentioned. Despite you not liking how the game looks it looks pretty alright to me, certainly passing the threshold of quality that I think makes a game sellable.

How many people do you think who bought your first game will buy your second?

It's a somewhat similar game with more content so I'd expect at least 10%, but I have no way of knowing.

>I feel like devs need to be honest with themselves
It's actually extremely hilarious seeing all these devs and journos trying to skirt around the real issue at hand. They're all trying to rally around some big evil dude keeping them down but none of them want to admit that it's the person next to them, the average indie dev, that's holding them back the most.

best of luck to you user

>WAAAAAAAAH why aren't we making money from our indie games, don't you want INDIE GAMES!

>check games
>anti-brexit, pozzed shit
>omg 90s internet browser
>some shitty bike game
>some mobile game

these people have no self awareness at all

>If EGS was 1:1 with steam in features, nobody would use it and justify their huge library as to why
Is that a defense for no shopping cart and reviews?

I believe (you)

Attached: Mike Rose is at PAX West ( RaveofRavendale) Twitter.png (602x572, 272K)

It's a self fulfilling prophecy
>if we had all the features no one would use out store anyway so we didn't build those futures and no one uses our store
I do not understand it at all, all it does it make the competition look stronger.

>why wont anyone buy my newgrounds-tier shovleware? :(((((((((((((((((
fuck off lmao

is she doing nudes or what?

>dustpunk deck building
Who the fuck does this appeal to?

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I remember watching video/reading article that explained it very elegantly. Idea is that there are interest clusters which represent certain kind of game, for example one cluster being tactical shooters, other fighting games etc. It is impossible to run out of clusters as there is great number of them and new can be created discovered. On the other hand it is very easy to oversaturate certain cluster.

/Thread

>believing Epic's hit pieces
Wowee, schlomo. Slow down, mate.

videogameschronicle.com/news/epic-games-store-exclusivity-not-bandai-namcos-vision/

>Quality always sells: the post.
Granted that doesnt apply here with this one but your post is dumb.
It's all about marketing.

>nowhere near good enough for epic to take interest
So why'd they want Darq and take that shitty pokemon ripoff?

Because if a game is on Epic and Steam nobody would choose to buy it on Epic. They know they need to be the only place to buy it.

As an average of indie games? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY SLOT MACHINE AND 3-GEM RESKINS ARE ON STEAM? Try filtering out all the garbage cash-grab shit and only include actual games with original designs and assets.

He does that already. In his GDC talk he takes out "low quality garbage" from the equations already, he probably does it here too.

games are 30%-50% cheaper on egs for me but I refuse to buy games there
tim singlehandedly made me not want to spend money there

>found an actual chink esl shill

Chink shills btfo

this is considered oppression nowadays

Wow, these guys are so interesting and not like all the other boys.

>He does that already.
>he probably does it

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>like the music player
>and proton
>and steamworks
>and better infrastructure
>and better apis
>and OpenVR
>and access to the global market

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He gave a GDC talk last year where he came up with a similar number to this and in that GDC talk he does it. This seems to be a continuation/update of that so it's reasonable to assume that he probably does it.

>practical monopoly
hello chang

>twitter screencap thread
Stop shitting up the board you degenerate cunt.

>Jeff Vogel
>Sold his first game during college
>Sold his first game before the fucking internet
>Sold his first game by phone
He is a fucking hero.
youtube.com/watch?v=stxVBJem3Rs

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>The biggest western release on Steam in the past year was fucking Shadow of The Tomb Raider
really?

OHNONONONO

that unironically looks like the best game they published.

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The actual fact is that Tim knows the fortnite dollars aren't going to last.
He doesn't have time to make a proper store people would choose to move over to, so instead is trying to force people to move over by throwing money at the problem rather than actually providing a better service. Paying for exclusives is much faster.

I know they're paid, but it's funny how the epic shills think the cut is going to stay at 12%. If Tim's plan works out they're going to increase that with new features.

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Who would've guessed. Flooding the market with 1 after another indieshit game thats just a bad copy of something that came better before would make people turn away from it on a massive scale.

These people keep forgetting that Braid and Super Meat Boy didn't just sell so well because they were good games, but because they had fuckton of promo by Microsoft and other sources behind them.

25k is honestly pretty good for the shovelware garbage that indie faggots are putting out.

I hope none of you live outside of US.

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>the fortnite dollars aren't going to last
Are they? Idk, it seems like it's got a lot of momentum behind it still, though it's obviously gone down a bit. Can't say I know much about a lot of these long running online games but the biggest ones have been running for years. Shit, minecraft just had a bit of a resurgence out of nowhere. And fortnite apparently updates very often to keep people interested.
Seems like something that could stay around for a long time.

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Except Minecraft is not 100% online, runs on everything, and you can mod the fuck out of it, fortnite is server based, if Epic close the serves, no one will play it, and at some point, a new game will appears and everyone will move to said game.
Fortnite is ruled by money, if is not making money, there is no reason to invest on it.

...

link to the talk?

This. If your game is actually good and doesn't look like something you already have seen beofre it will sell.

>if is not making money
isn't it still making a shit ton of money every month?
And I think it may have solidified its own genre very well.
>and at some point, a new game will appears and everyone will move to said game
People said this shit about wow for years and only recently has another mmo become serious competition. And wow is having a fuck hueg revival atm.

steam is taking on 1 million users from fucking Battle.net for free. This game is 100 gb and all 1 million users don't have to re buy the game. That is a huge fucking cost/lost sales that GOG can't afford and I bet Timothy won't pay.

Like I said, at some point, it can happen, maybe next month, maybe in 5 years, or a decade, maybe valve releases F2P TF3 in 2020, and will change the market, maybe EA releases something good, maybe is a no name indie studio.

so this is the power of Epic china... wow...

>Mike Rose
literally fucking WHO
why do you even follow this spastic on twitter end yourself

Op btfo

Literally all the sales from lobotomy corporation are on switch. indies games don't sell on steam anymore.

youtube.com/watch?v=WycVOCbeKqQ

it has 4000 reviews on steam, do you know how many sales that is its a shit ton

try using that coupon feature.

...it's not even on Switch.

>wah wah my indie game doesn't sell. It's all Steams fault!!!
>wah wah Timmy buy my copies upfront I even sign the china contract and release my games exclusively on your Platform but please timmy buy me ouutttt
KILL YOURSELF

Based. Fuck chinks.