Pathologic 2 + 1 Thread

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Please do not do that. This coat is gucci.

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quite a few little quality of life changes, basically. such as the gift of running. if i recall from 1, some items do different things in 2, and there's added items. combat is slightly less ridiculous.

How do the bound work in this game? Is the list of kids the bound?

yeah the list is your bound. their fates influence the ending like in 1. there's at least one quest for each of them, they'll have attention brought on them at some points, etc.

plus, harsupex can open up his own childrens amusement park.

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was anyone around when they had a store up? i wish i had gotten some stuff.

i wish i was around for the kickstarter too.

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i like this webm, i have stood around the termitary a bit waiting for it to happen but haven't seen it yet.

it's specifically either day 1 or 2, can't remember. might be either, depending on when you first walk by.

I'm playing my second playthrough and just realized that the Fellow Traveler Is death

I really love IPL as a game company there is nothing like them when it comes to making games

>that one Executor who tells you about the Bound getting infected tells you literally that Death plays dice to see whether they live or die
>first thing the Fellow Traveler says when you talk to him is to ask if you want to play dice
Sneaky bastards.

I was thinking the other day that fellow traveller should have his own character model. But I recognise it kind of just fits in a meta way to have him be one of many identical twins.

What do khatange think about this

You know that Fellow Traveler is based on medieval asian nomad superstition? They told that ginger-haired travelers (mostly russian merchants) bring death ( because they and their merchandise could be infected with plague).

One of the things that I love about Pathologic and The Void is that in hindsight everything is so obvious
Most things that you hear in game upfront are so outlandish and absurd it makes you think it's just some weird metaphor or a figure of speech except when you actually encounter all of this and everything starts to make sense slowly
I was thinking about this too, but I think it will draw too much attention to that detail, what makes it so effective is how Death uses a random NPC model despite being the one entity with the most impact in the whole game
That's really interesting I've never heard that before

Never knew that before, thanks blessed dispenser of rare wisdom.

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How bad is it that already I died twice in the first six days?

It's actually very impressive. Not bad. Did you protect Rubin?

You are doing pretty good if it's your first time

>I figure there's no reason for me to play 2 as of now since I'm enjoying the one I'm on but what are the primary differences in terms of gameplay?
P2 is far, far more mechanics-oriented. I don't want to spoil too much for you, but just about every element of the game has been given a lot more depth and complexity, while the difficulty has been really twisted up.

The probably biggest difference is that the list of items in the game has been greatly expanded, and pretty much every single one of them has been now given multiple different functions, which makes the whole economy aspect of the game far, far more complex.

I have died 3 times and I am on the 7th
It is honestly a miracle that I didn't die on the 1vs3 on the second night of protecting Rubin's ass

A based user drew this murky for me just now

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Way to go! I wish you luck, khatanger.

I have fucked up and let 3 people die though.
Fucking dice rolls man

cute smelly mushroom child

the plague doesn't fuck around, if you can't cure it right away, give them your STRONGEST TINCTURES and pray. most people won't survive 2 or more days infected unless you hate them in which case they'll stick it out forever.

I tried to, and that's how I died a second time. Had to leave him.
It is, though I am familiar with the first Pathologic (played first few days and watched the rest on youtube), so that helped. The game is amazing by the way. It runs like absolute shit on my laptop, but i still love it.
Good job! Hope it was worth it.

When do I start getting more cures? I have no idea where to find shmowser on kids and I only found one in those caches by blind luck

Chug twyrine every day, it leads you to stashes. Little girls will also have them sometimes for around 35 credit, so carry around lots of nuts and chalk.

Are Cargo! and Knock-Knock worth playing? I heard that Cargo! isn't exactly what it seems to be and it has actual story. Is that true?

>Katarina just disappears when she gets infected
Didn't want to cure you anyway bitch

CARGO! is one giant metaphor, but it is also a genuinely SHITTY game, and while the idea behind it is kinda funny, the insanely poor mechanic and just awful execution all around make it not worth it. I ultimately really can't recommed it.

Knock-Knock is... very unique. It's very difficult to explain without spoiling. Sufficie to say, that game is designed not so much about how it is played, as around how it... affects the player. It has a goal of messing with your head. As a result, it may prove to be almost unplayable (but absolutely fascinating), odd and quirky but relatively simple, or insanely boring and largely pointless, depending on your personal disposition, And you'll most likely won't know until you have played a bit of it.
It's really a clever experience though, and it isn't usually very frustrating (unlike CARGO!). It's probably worth trying.

i wasn't expecting the plague cloth to just fucking disappear when you give them a shmowder, actually pretty funny.

I'm so sorry sticky and grace
of course 2 favourites had to go

>letting sticky die
Restart now

Don't be an Undertale fan

You let best boy die. You let your pseudo son die.
How can you even live with yourself

>when you give them a shmowder, actually pretty funny.
Wait what? How you can do that?
Wasting shmowder is the other question

When in treatment/diagnostic mode, you should have a list of your tinctures, painkillers and antibiotic on the left side of the screen. All the way down to the bottom, you should also have a list of "miracles". Any schmoulders or panaceas you may have on you should be displayed there. You administer them like any other meds.

i gave him the correct tincture+, pill and morphine, had nothing else at the time

when you treat them with it i mean

In Pathologic 1, there were interesting ways to OWN the game.

There was a way to get done with all or at least the majority of the day's quests by dawn.

There was a way to purge sand pest from your body without taking either panacea or shmouder. There was this moment previously when you recognized that getting infected and not giving a fuck TREMENDOUSLY simplifies the game.

The absolute ownage you could put up in the arena, once you got how the fighting worked. Getting a mad streak of 10 wins without healing in between. As a Bachelor, no less.

Jank or not, each of those things was a genuine achievement. Something had to click together inside of your head for you to come up with the plan to pull this off, for you to even recognize pulling this off was even to be considered a thing.

Does 2 have anything alike? Or is its mastery simply in the memorization of bartering exchange rates?

Right side, not left. Sorry.

Pathologic 2 is less breakable, but there are still options to "own" the game in different ways. If you know what is coming, and how to barter most efficiently, you can be sitting on piles of supplies by day 3 laughing at the dying city. Ways to cheeze the combat in a brutal way.
But the game makes it much harder by just having FAR more things for you to do, far more angles to consider, and changing the rules more frequently than in P1. To put it simple: while it is "snappable", it puts up much more resistence, and isn't afraid of genuinely punching back at times. It's all-and-all more robust as a game.
But yeah, ultimately, there are ways to snap it over your knees like a twig. At least - for some time, before it figures out a new way to try and screw you over instead.
Also, the exploits that are there are often far better "explained" by the logic of the settings. Like - for an example - you can absolutely break the economy if you are a REAL dick and scour the infected districts for desperate infected people, who will trade their most valuable items for false hope of cure. Nasty, but legitimate way to become the king of the city.

>the game being broken is a good thing
Sometimes Yea Forums is just too contrarian

>Hanging out with your sister
>This guy comes in and slaps her in the ass
What would you do Yea Forums?
In all seriousness I want to thank all the people that have been talking about the void here in there in these threads, I finally got around to playing it and now I regret skipping it back when it came out since I vividly remember the occasional thread back then and I would've liked to have a chance to discuss it with Yea Forums back when it was more popular

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In this case, I think what he says makes a lot of sense, and I think the developers would genuinely agree here. The proof of that is in P2's design.

Yulia once states that the city was build as a maze to push people to their limits, and thus reveal their potential, and their creativity. P2 is designed very clearly to do that. To actually encourage the player to basically break the game: just so it can pull the rug benath them a bit later on, and force them to do something else.

The lockpicks being so OP, the insane ease with which you can make money, the way you can push your character to limits to save up on resources - all are there by deliberate design, to introduce a constant tug-of-war between the player and the game. Being creative to a point of exploitation is cleary something the devs intentionally ENCOURAGE in P2, and simultaneously, try their damn best to make sure it never becomes boring by periodically shifting the whole rules of the game.

I think players wanting to break the game like they did with P1 was something the devs really, really counted on.

Bartering loopholes aren't that interesting to discover, for me personally, at least. I mean, it's barter, of course there are ways to be a jew. You just compile a full spreadsheet of who wants what for how much, who offers what for how much, then you compute the best ways to get what you want from that spreadsheet, then you follow up on those schemes. It's simply busywork.
Besides, P1 had bartering loopholes as well, so it's expected P2 would have them.

I don't think many people were talking about it when it came out. At least not here. I was here around the time the English version came out (2008-ish, if I remember correctly), and IPL threads and general awareness of the company was much, much lower than it is today.

Yes! Come to think of it, the lockpicks absolutely do count.

It's... a little more complicated than that. Because as I mentioned, virtually all objects now have multiple uses for the player. It's no more "I have X which is useless to me, and I want Y which is always useful" as it was in P1. Now, it's virtually ALWAYS an unavoidable question of making actual trade-offs. And as I mentioned, the entire RULES may change at a moments notice. You may end up with three weeks worth of food supplies only to find out you'd change them ALL for a couple of bad-aids: and simultaneously learn that you really, REALLY CAN'T anymore.

Again, it's a far more robust system than it was in the first game. Not to mention, the whole thing extends beyond resource management. "loopholes" exist in combat, survival, and looting, but unlike P2, they are again far better managed and ultimately all lead to more interesting gameplay, as they largely are accounted for and the game likes to occasionally introduce some kind of "counter-play" just to spice shit up for you.

Going guns blazing on the horde of army guys in the bachelor route is still one of my favorite moments of Pathologic. Felt so cathartic

See, thing is, that "finishing day by dawn" thing and that "shmouderless infection purge" thing weren't random off the wall occurences. The game gave you ways to DEDUCE both, following up on cues it provided, and that entailed radically reassessing what you considered that game, or at least specific aspects of it, being. Which was mirrored in its "twists inside a twist" story pacing, which led you to radically reassess how things were put together artistry-wise. These were no random fuckups on developers' side, these were things, that if you looked hard enough at the right places, and you rubbed two brain cells together, something would happen after which the very way you though about what this game was in principle, changed. Even the fist combat exploit followed the same logic. SUPPOSE THE LONG PUNCH FLIES (if not, I am cancelling the attack by backpedaling). Your interpretation changed. Where there was a frustration "Ah I can't control which type of attack comes next", now there was a clear understanding that exactly the half of your attacks would be "good" ones regardless of whatever you happen to consider that "good" attack.

What I am leading to, I guess, is that, in terms of cheesing, there is a difference between "fitting, therefore left to be there" and "precomputed, that is specifically put there by design". One is natural, the other is artificial.

bump

DRAWFRIEND if you are here btw, I have a request for a drawing of tya tycheek knighting haruspex. Kind of like this example but steppified. I know you got stuff to do so no pressure.

I feel like tya is underrated at least going by fan art stuff. She quickly became my second favourite member of the plague Little Rascals. Plus she's right, its weird having an unused village out there especially with all the complaining about the town the khatange do.

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I fucking mispelled taya twice.

Wow. Anons here are learned erudites. Can you share more interesting etnical lore info?

Sticky makes sugar candy for Murky, let him live!

How come all devs are fat neckbeards and yet Dybovsky is so kawaii.

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We acknowledge your passion for Dybovsky, but... You’re Repeating Yourself

neckbeards

Gabe Newell is kawaii.

>letting the literal 2 best kids die
You're the doctor. You should've known...

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TRACES OF THE SUPERNATURAL

well, i got the diurnal ending
i'm happy i even survived until the end but i'm not satisfied in the slightest
so many things i didn't have time to do its ridiculous
i'll do at least one more playthrough

but gentlemen? gather around if you will
*ting ting ting*
an announcement, of sorts
please raise your glasses, i have something to say
*ahem*
FUCK THE POLYHEDRON

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GO EASY ON THE TWYRINE GRACE

Was anyone else unable to pick up the rifle at the army camp on Day 11? I was able to do it the first time but then when I had to redo the day it just wouldn't let me.

this gave me a chuckle for whatever reason

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They sure made the Inquisitor cowardly

>some of you blockheads are alright. Don't come to Lara's shelter tomorrow.

Can someone just tell me the secret to not dying within 5 cycles of the void?
Shit feels actually fucking impossible, I never have enough color

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Yeah. There are two secrets to it.
First of all: DO NOT revive more trees at once than is absolutely necessary. One, maybe two trees per cycle should be enough. ALWAYS fill the tree to the brim. Otherwise you'll get really bad trade-off. Don't worry about over-filling, despite what the game says, any excess nerva you invest will just return to your palette.

Two: farm Gold and Emerald in the early cycles. Now, here is the real secret (it's a bit of a spoiler):
If you fill your hearts with gold before you talk to a sister, she'll require much less color to "unlock" her hearts and thus open passages to more realms. In fact, having color in your hearts has generally impact on your stats. Gold makes sisters like you more, Emerald makes you tougher, Azure makes you faster, Crimson makes you deal more damage etc... Try to carry as much Gold Lympha around as you can, and always fill your heart with it before you talk to a sister - then, after the conversation, take the lympha out of your hearts before you enter The Void so that you don't accidentally burn through it.

Once you unlock the chambers of the other two sisters, which now should be much easier for you, you'll also unlock new gardens to farm, and more to the point, you should get a quest to learn to "mine" color. Once you get both required Glyphs (one of which will be given to you by one of the sisters, other by one of the brothers), you should start more-or-less swim in excess lympha.

They made her genuinely smart this time, instead of just magically knowing shit she should not know as it was in the original.

Posted it in the drawthread last night because there just wasn't a thread when I was done.

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If I don't take the color from a tree during a cycle, will it reset next cycle or will the color from the new cycle just be added to the color from the previous cycle?

It will remain there, adding all up. The only way you can lose lympha already accumulated in a chamber is if a Brother decides to be a dick and ransack it, which you'll be usually informed about.
Otherwise, lympha once produced will remain where it is, and new waves (either from new cycles of trees/mines, or just by the randomized outcroppings) will be there until you harvest it.

I should add: learn how to correctly hunt for fireflies, It's fairly simple and usually nets you a bit more lympha, then the nerva invested. Which is good. You generally want to spend Nerva to produce more Lympha back. The only warning about that I can give you is that each garden has limited fertility and if you revive too many trees at once, it will quickly become drained: meaning that your returns will not even out the investment. Which is why you should always revive trees only when necessary.

Looks great user. This dandy boy can fit so much papers in it

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haha, yea, brassy rambo bacheloor. imagine him preparring to meet Burakh, dragging that chair to the hall after killind all those man.

In second game bitch knows shit too.

Except in the second game we are giving actual reasons for her "knowing". It's a logical conclusion to who she is as a character. Events logically stem from each other. Which was definitely not the case in the first game.

bachelor keeps his degrees close. really nice work.

have you been hitting the twyrine my man?

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Dybovskiiy is a Polish name, right? Is he of Polish descent?

>have you been hitting the twyrine my man?
yes, why?

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not necessarily polish, it's pretty generically slavic
might even be bulgarian
he's russian, tho

I gotta say, I enjoy changeling a lot in 2. I'd prefer for her to be the next route they make.

Great painting, user, cool eye shading and facial expressions. Coulda be more bloody, but i like it nonetheless. Also posting art in the drawthread's clever way to promote game.
You have my gratitude.

original requester

The children can all die for all I care, my top priority this playthrough will be to survive long enough to hug Lara.

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Now i wanna do it too. Third walkthough here a go

They really should make her next and leave bachelor's blockbuster route for the dessert.

>have you been hitting the twyrine my man?
is it my spelling?

>The children can all die for all I care
take it back. your senseless waifufagging has blinded you. you have been cut off from your people for too long.

>Larafags have no soul
Who would've guessed?

>tanbrains

yeah don't worry about it, the air is different in this town.

wait a minute
wait
so THATS what tan is?

i was wondering why tan and milk were different items
oh no ohnonono

I'M HAVING CHEST PAINS

BVLLED

FRESH
FROM
THE
BULL

its a meme, you dip

Don't be mean to the kids
or I'll stop painting Lara and paint Rubin instead

Paint Bachelor with gun

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YESS

Draw Burakh and Rubin drinking in Stamatins pub, please

this 1 would be great

This all takes time, I can't guarantee anything but I'll try my best to deliver.
I've wanted to draw a cute scene with Stamatin and Grace for a few days now already that I'll have to find the time for as well.

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You have all of our support and love, friend
We can't have you keel over due to exhaustion! That would be very unfortunate

stinky smelly burakh

I'm sitting here, poised with the game in my steam checkout cart, not sure if I should buy it. I get annoyed with games pretty easily, especially when they are hard and impenetrable. I gave up after an hour of the original. I feel like the game is not meant for me.

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They added difficulty sliders for that very reason
You can always refund/pirate it if it's not your thing, although the difficulty and oppressive nature is part of the experience

its hard to tell if you have a bad history with things like this but theres always a refund if need be. I felt the same way about the first one but the second one has me absolutely hooked so it could be worth a shot still.

Do you guys remember when the hide and seek game is supposed to take place? Can I go there without tripping a trigger? I searched all the caches and it didn't give me any leads on where to go from there, and it's super fucking important since it shits shmowders all over you.

oynons I'm fucking serious here you better fucking tell me what I want to know - khatangers - or I'll fucking curse you so mother earth will NEVER give you another little girl holding a shmowder EVER FUCKING AGAIN

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It's pretty early on, I think. Day 3? I'm reasonably sure it lasts until Act 2 though so it's not a one-day thing. I think you have to talk to a bunch of kids in order to trigger it. Maybe specifically the ones at Notkin's place?

Just finished 2 for the first time. Is it possible to find out who killed your father? I never did. Other than that the ending was quite satisfactory.

Pretty sure the game takes place on a courtyard somewhere in the centre of the town. Maybe west of Theatre? I'm not sure. Maybe it's somewhere east of Town Hall instead.
Anyway, you can't trigger the game itself until you talk to the kids.

Oh, so the quest won't end on the ending of day 2 then? I've talked to two or three different groups of kids (ones next to the Cathedral, ones in the Kain backyard area, and ones near the graves of the Mistresses on the cape) and I've been told to go to the Nutshell. There's just the two dicky kids there who want me to repair their lamp, nothing else.

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You must have missed some pretty important conversation, I thought I remember it being almost impossible not to. Doesn't he tell you in the dream where you choose past or future?

You found the hidden stashes where they pointed you to, right?

Cease enjoying it, oynon... For crying out loud.

I think so, four of them in total. One was at the very north of the mistress cape, one in the gut area, one behind the cathedral, one in that broken archway flood gate thing near the nutshell. Admittedly, I skipped through a bit of the dialogue though (fourth playthrough).

I think I remember that conversation, but I don't recall that information being divulged there. I think I got a bug right by the end where I couldn't talk to Taya even though I was right next to her. The mindmap prompt said "Some things are not meant to be" later in the day so I figured it glitched somehow.

Isidor went out into the steppe and dug himself a hole, deliberately infecting himself with the sand pest, and brought it back to town. He saw the town as being too weak to stand on its own and so decided to "vaccinate" it in the hopes that you'd be able to fix it. Isidor didn't have a killer, he killed himself.

That part I got, but I seem to recall inspecting his body and finding a large, gaping wound in his torso (from which I presumed was a bull horn).

Also, did he really hope you would find the cure? Didn't he want the pest to eradicate everyone it could, then the ones who survived would be the "strong"?

>Isidor didn't have a killer, he killed himself
You're forgetting that Oyun saw him come back from the steppe, and stabbed him in his house. He did infect himself as you said, but Oyun killed him before he could die from the sand pest.

Couldn't tell you, I never inspected the body. Maybe he got poked after he died, since he'd have to walk back to the town and all in order to spread it.

okay nvm explained it, I did indeed forget that part.

I vaguely remember years back when some people claimed Pathologic and The Void were set in the same universe. Is there any truth to this speculation actors?

The Void's setting is that the multiverse is a series of links in a vertical chain, with each link being its own universe, with increasing levels of general shittiness and poverty of SOUL the farther down you go; the bottommost link is ABSOLUTE DEATH aka nothing at all.

If I'm remembering correctly, the theory is that Pathologic is set in the universe that's one link upwards from The Void. Thus, pretty shitty, but not blackened twisted landscapes devoid of color-tier shitty.

There's a secret room in The Void that looks similar to the garden when you meet Powers That Be in Pathologic. There's also another secret room where there's a bath with growing twyre in it.

I see no real obvious connection between the two from memory, ignoring Easter eggs. Sure the person that fell into Turgor could have fallen from the same universe as the Sandbox, but that's yet another meta layer on top of a pie that's already four layers deep.

Thanks for the info, I had a hard time finding it online anywhere. Is the motivation for him killing Isidor explained as well?
Also, I'm not sure how I managed to miss it, but the end conversation with Oyun did confirm I never found out who the killer was. I asked him, but he told me he would answer no questions, I interpreted it as being because I picked the kill the earth ending.

[Spoiler]Oyun himself admits it was done out of love iirc. He saw his friend in pain, spouting madness, and decided to finish him off[/spoiler]

ctrl+s, my dude

>RUBIN IS AN IDIOT
yeah but he's also stakhed so i wouldn't fuck with him

Ah alright, that makes sense.
One last question: Can you save the inquisitor if you do not decide to flee with her? She is the only character ended up dying for me. Happened right when I found the courier, too.

There's no known way to save the Inquisitor. ;_;

Damn, that sucks. Took me by surprise how well she treated you all of a sudden, but I still felt my duty was with the town. I gotta say though, this game was fucking amazing. Really a stellar example of an experience only possible as an interactive game. Really hope they go forward with the DLC, would love to revisit it.

If they pull through with doing what they intended on doing, the DLC will essentially be two more games of that size and scope, but from the Bachelor's perspective, dealing with the Polyhedron specifically and the Kains and the whole utopian town-engineering angle; and the Changeling's, dealing with ??? and ??? and the town's shittier people, maybe? and who knows what else.

There's a lot to look forward to, provided IPL makes it out okay.

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Hard to do on a phone, emshen

Yeah, I watched Mandalore's video on the first game. Really hoping all the attention the second video caused ends up helping them out. I feel like I would have never been able to enjoy the first game so I am very glad they took the time to remake it, since the problems it had didn't have anything to do with the ideas themselves. Replaying the game from another character's perspective is now very tempting, in contrast to the first game.

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I wouldn't recommend it so soon on the heels of P2 but if you find yourself craving that same slavjank feel, The Void is pathologically underrated and is a really interesting and beautiful game. Something to tide you over until they get those other routes out, at least.

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I need that Marble Nest patch, actors

Also here's new Wroniec stuff

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Thanks user, I have heard it mentioned before along Pathologic and I will probably check it out soon.
Gotta try that new Anomaly beta version first tho, I'm on a slavjank roll!

Jesus christ that's a nice buttplug.

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Why?

Because the original MN is too unoptimised for my compooper

Same here, it runs like plague victims. But it's really not long at all, just 90 minutes or something. Surely you can suffer through it.

I did! But I do want to replay it and squeeze all the bits of story out of it

are there any benefits of having a high reputation?

There's one at the camp in the North West on Day 11.

Cargo is just a bit weird. It's a nice enough distraction to pick up on sale and the buddies are likely to make you laugh a bit. It's not a particularly "good" game though. The underwater section in particular sucks balls.

>Jesus christ that's a nice buttplug.
mm, kinky

sugoii

Insipid actors, I repeat

The show can not go on forever.
Take a bow, let the audience clap and go home already!

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Fuck you, Devil

I played all three storylines of Classic HD for the first time then P2 back to back, feel like playing The Void now.
I actually bought it about 8 years ago, but had no idea what I was doing and gave up pretty quick.
Is there a good spoiler-free guide or anything, or is it best just to give it another go blind now i'm a bit older?

Blind is better, honestly. But here's some tips if you want.

Just learn how to draw your glyphs properly, learn what colors do when you hold them in you, (gold and violet are especially important for saving resources but they're all useful), and try and maximize the bang for your buck. Fill trees up fully and you get considerably more than if you hadn't. You don't always need to fill yourself up as much as possible, especially early on, since things drain from all your hearts at the same time. Putting 50 in a big heart will last twice as long as 25 in two hearts.

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Should I let the cringeling infect me to save murky? Is there a better way to do it?

Spoiler free advice is harder than I thought, but here goes.
>the "donor" glyph can be tricky to draw. Save once and keep practicing until you can draw it consistently, then reload.
>when planting trees, always use the maximum amount of color you can spare: using small amounts is not worth it since you'l barely get back your investment, and the tree will still be disabled for the same duration.
>don't use all of the trees in a garden at once: keep a rotation between the different gardens so a few trees always remain available in a garden at any given time
>avoid combat with the brothers at all costs until you're ready. Even then, some of them require A LOT of color to be defeated, so it might not always be worth it.
>save often, load often. By the end I was mostly savescumming.

>Is there a better way to do it?
Nope. Either you get infected, or she dies.
Ideally, you should already have your first panacea brewing, and you can test it on yourself.

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Fuck, I was hoping I could an extra cure out of that, I am on day 8 and horrified because bath Lara and anime man are infected and I have no cures