This character is so fucking dumb

go to sleep mkleo

You've never played the character a day in your life have you? Peach is high execution af. Which is why it's just samsora getting consistent results.

Peach is balanced since unlike the droves of swordies in this game she takes a ton of effort to get results with. At this point you're just complaining that a character is good.

Joker was twice the amount of bullshit that Peach has.

Smash 4 Rosalina and Luma, If she was unacceptable, Peach is as well.

>No other character can float in place and spam aerials with no drawbacks

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I disagree, but this is not about other potentially broken characters, it's about Peach

You don't see the difference between them? Really?

Peach's offstage presence could be better.
I have never been afraid of being gimped thanks to this lads robo-burner.

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Not to be a dick or anything, but this type of thinking is retarded as "works on my machine" you have to stop and realize that not everyone in the game has a recovery like that.

Okay yes, one literally floats there and the other has 6 jumps to use. The only real big diffrence though is peach cant use the float vertically.

Feels like a few months ago.

Rosalina is like 4th on the list of retarded characters in smash 4th. Also rosalina was nowhere near as hard to play as peach.

I play both joker is much easier to use then paisy.that consistent tilt combo is much harder than it looks. Plus joker kills much easier than peach.

Getting punished for fuckimg grabbing a character to this day makes me more upset on a fundamental level than Bayo in 4.

Everyone moaned about her being brain dead
>Every Top player that tried to pick her up failed miserably
>Can count the people who got results with her over the entire course of the game's life on one hand.
I think not, faggot.

lol no, did you even watch the last tournament, MKleo only killed at 120% AT BEST, with ARSENE.
Meanwhile peach has two aerials, bair and fair, that are good for killing and bair has more uses for combos as well.
Even if you don't know the true combo that peach has, she still fundamentally broken, she has benefits no other character has.
AND DONT FORGET THAT SHE DOESNT GET THE .85X DAMAGE REDUCTION THAT SHORT HOP FOR AERIALS HAVE WHEN SHE'S FLOATING

Well then those are reasons enough to say that the character is balanced. If she is comparable to peach then peach is also balanced. I mean most peaches drown in pool. Or inconsistent make top 32 which can be said for 90% of the roster. Have you considered that maybe Sam was just the better player, who put in more effort and the character could have been any one.

Rosalind had ACTUAL bank and glitches like Luma being able to attack out of Rosa hitstun, that glitch where Luma can nair infinitely, her down b that completely deletes projectiles and can be spammed, her bullshit uair in 4, etc.
Peach is a difficult to use character who excels if the user is good enough, totally different circumstances.

Alright I'll agree that Peach and Daisy negating the short hop damage reduction is bullshit but everything else is fine. If they fixed that in the next patch i'd be happy.

is this from PM? I don't remember this in Brawl

Peach didn't die till 120 because Samsora is one of the top 5 Smash players. Joker can kill as low as 80 and his edgegaurding game is probably the best.

That's looks like an animation from BrawlBox, it could be custom made

>character is not mentioned in balance discussion once
>absolute dead silence
>viable? sure. high tier? sure.
>but the real villains are Heavies in casual play. Joker. Anime Swordsmen. Hoes Mad because scrubs mad about new.
>SUDDENLY
>TOURNEY RESULTS
>PEACH IS BROKEN Y'ALL

OP you and those like you are retarded robots, I swear to God. Literal NPCs waiting for permission to begin their next complaint cycles.

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Lol Leo was actually doing his best without arsene. Bair is still a monster as is uair into f/usmash

Ah, thank you
fuck, you just reminded me that BrawlBRSMTX shut down

Did you? Aside from the rng stock and the offstage fair samsora did not close a single stock before 140% and joker is not even that heavy. He hit him at the edge of the stage with a point blank fair at 120 and joker was fine. Multiple times where hair and smash killed peach before 120. Joker has smash attacks that kill, something peach does not. He has the best counter in the game that secured multiple stocks, peach does not. Jokers fair, bair both kill. And bair can do it without arsene and is safer than peach bair. The only reason that same got away with as many bairs as he did is because Leo tried to punish with bad options and Sam just spotdodged.Upair also can kill around 120 with arsene. Joker is just as good as peach and twice as easy to use.

>Rosalind had ACTUAL bank and glitches like Luma being able to attack out of Rosa hitstu
This is untrue but you were able to buffer attack so they came out the frame hitstun ended. The only difference in Ultimate is they added a little animation to it and you still get cases where Luma supposedly hit someone while Rosa was in hitstun.
>that glitch where Luma can nair infinitely
That was rapid jab and it was only useful in a hand full of situations
>her bullshit uair in 4
What was bullshit about her uair? List anything that Mario, Falcon, ZSS, diddy or shiek with her fair didn't have.
>Peach is a difficult to use character who excels if the user is good enough, totally different circumstances.
Peach doesn't have the damage reduction on shorthop aerials and several lag cancels other fighters don't have on top of already being a solid character and she doesn't take anymore skill than the likes of Lucina or Joker.

I'll take a nerf to that if they give her back her back throw kill and give her actually useful smash attacks. Otherwise she is fine as she is, and needs the damage to actually be worth putting time into

Is there any character with as solid of a kit as Inkling that has absolutely no tournament results to show for it?

"can" is a strong word user, many characters "can" do that at lower percentages . The thing is the situations in which joker "can" kill at 80% most likely others characters can do too.
And if we are comparing edgeguard games, peach still has the best one, she can literally wait in the edge FLOATING and react to your recovery, no other character can do this, they have to commit to the attack with a jump, and dair is a super active move that covers most recoveries.
Joker has to GO IN like everyone else, peach just has to be there.

Once again go back and actually watch the matches. Sam got ONE stock off of hard edge guarding and got most of his damage in neutral. Meanwhile in the matches Leo won, peach was off the stage for damn near entire stocks and lost multiple times to offstage fair and bair. You guys really just want peach to be better then she actually is.

Inkling doesn't get results because she's the only "honest" top tier who doesn't have any real jank to steal games since Roller stops working on even mid level players and uthrow uair is horrendously specific and inconsistent with some characters only having a 1% window where it's a real kill confirm.

PT has frame 1 invul (joker does too with the arsene summon and obnoxious screen splash)
Wario gets an instant kill that can be comboed into at certain percents
Ken has cuhhhhrazy shoryuken combos that kill at ridiculously low percents
You dont get to top tier without being a little busted on top of a good overall kit

But she is better than joker. If arsene was consistent it would be "somewhat" close, but peach has more options than Joker.
Peach true combo is insane and shouldn't exist, is easy to do, almost unpunishable and can actually kill if the opponent doesn't DI correctly. Samsora did this combo to leo at least 70% out of all the stocks.

Samsora struggledAT first againt Leo because when Leo had arsene, he just camped and started receiving damage from Side B and Neutral B and as soon as he started ignoring Arsene, Samsora started to win.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that Top Tier doesn't exist, but Peach has clear OBJECTIVE advantages over all the roster even top tiers.

>Samsora has consistely caught fat L's from MKLeo for months now
>gets one win
>"Peach is way better than Joker and here's why"
Peach isn't even as busted as Snake and is the hardest of the top tiers to use.

nah, she shouldn't have that advantage to begin with, so why should they buff her?

>Joker has to GO IN like everyone else, peach just has to be there.

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Because MKLeo is a good player and doesn't succumb to pressure like every person has done against him.
Just look at the past sets with Samsora and Tweek.
Samsora even twitted that he didn't see a future where he could beat MKLeo, literally self destructing.
Don't forget the fact that MKLeo was one stock away from being eliminated both in EVO and Smash Con and with a clear disadvantage.
welp i forgot about snake, my bad. my point still stands though, and float not only works for offensive play but for defensive too, so add that in.

Samsora beats Leo all the time, just because he doesn't do so on Grand Finals doesn't mean they don't happen

>and float not only works for offensive play but for defensive too, so add that in.
So does Snake with his Nikita and grenades on top of having amazing close range moves and other attributes like armor and the ability to act out of his Up B.
Everything you've said that's bullshit about Peach applies nicely to Snake as well, but Snake didn't win today and you don't have some retarded bias against him so we're talking about Peach who's a significantly less common of a character in all levels of play compared to Joker and Snake.

The only problem with Peach is her lack of damage reduction on jumps, otherwise she's perfectly balanced.

Leffen is on Twitter explaining why she should be banned.

As a Daisy player there is nothing easy about that combo. And it will not kill you, like ever. If you make a mistake i can punish with a smash. That's it. Same as messing up against any other characters combo. If you fuck up against a Mario combo you get up smashed same with joker, except those actually kill fairly early

>Leffen
His opinion on anything is invalid anyway.

>As a Daisy player there is nothing easy about that combo.
Stop bullshitting, I'm an ape brained Ganonplayer and can pull off that combo on people trying to get out of it. You're shit or lying.

Because otherwise there would be no reward for learning a highly technical character. Without something to give her an edge, there's no reason for me to not just spend an afternoon learning Mario or luigi combos. Instead of spending 10x as long learning to float cancel and optimizing to make peach a halfway decent character

Why do people think float canceling is technical? You're not doing anything a good chunk of other fighters don't do as their bread and butter. Rosaluma, all the Links, Snake, Ryu, Shulk and the Iceclimbers aren't doing. Some of them are doing more. Why does Peach get to be so good?

No it doesnt, Snake doesn't have anything that's guaranteed, besides Up tilt from D-Throw at 140%+.
Snake is a zonner and his effectivness is higher against characters that can't contest him or out damage him with the trades.
Snake gets destroyed by rushdown characters.
All his aerials are unsafe as fuck compared to peach, and his pressure are his granades, which are easy to evade.
His recovery is pretty fucking garbage, exploitable by any character that can go off stage a little, he may survive the edgeguard but with 100% after touching stage

Is muscle memory. It may not be as easy as bayoneta combos in smash 4, but is not like you'll miss them frequently with enough practice, like you know, every other combo every character has to learn.
I do agree is the combo is a little bit harder than other combos in the game, but the payout is totally bullshit for the opponent and not even comparable to other combos, it also is true and not that hard to land or start it.
peach is not that hard to play, is only that compared to the other it is, but that doesn't mean anything because smash is not known for it's complex controls.
She still easier to learn than learning any FG character from scracth.

Stop fighting shitters who don't respond to getting comboed or di against anything. That combo is stage, character and combo dependent. And the only reason Leo got his by it so much is because Sam was reading his options. Dtilt into nair the first time is free, after that it all depends on how the player responds. If you're hitting that combo consistently your opponent just does not understand the matchup.

>Stop fighting shitters who don't respond to getting comboed or di against anything.
Okay, that's-
>And the only reason Leo got his by it so much is because Sam was reading his options.
Top player that's shown he's able to quickly adapt gets caught in it repeatedly. Nice job invalidating any point you would have had.

down tilt is a fast move and practically riskless, and that's what start the true combo.
"just dont get hit by it" is not an excuse, if it was hard to land i would give it to you, but it isnt.

>Snake gets destroyed by rushdown characters.

>trade explosions with them till they are 80%
>use best move in the game up tilt for a free safe kill

You literally just pulled the "only shitters" card then went on to admit that someone who is most certainly not a shitter got caught in it because he's a shitter and was getting read. I don't think Sam was "reading all his options" the combo is true or a 50/50 where you're fucked or only slightly fucked once it starts.

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Did you forget Samsora is ALSO a top player you dumb bitch?

>rushdown characters will always 100% of the time get hit by snake granades, nothing they can do about it, they can't be evaded, they explode INSTANTLY
yeah no, the only characters that struggles are the ones that can't respond to snakes harrasment .
Rushdown characters can respond to him because all snake attacks are slow, he gets carried hard by granades and side b.

What do any of those characters have that is nearly as essential to their kit as float canceling? Knowing how to scroll the Monado arts is in no way comparable to mastering the timing of float cancels.
The payout is more than fair. Considering that it's the only consistently good part of her kit. Without that combo, paisy would not only have to spam aerials to try and get her opponent to 140 so she can actually kill, and is balanced off by the fact that she dies to super early to literally every other top tier in the game. And obviously this character is no more degenerate then pika's unga aerial spam and amazing frame data. Snake's unga grenades and amazing zoning potential. Olimar's unga uair chain (which is easier to do and does just as much damage. ) Mario and squirrel have amazing chains that can rack up 50-60 just as fast. I have no clue why peach gets singled out for being broken when she isnt doing anything more powerful than the rest of the top tiers, while being objectively worse in other areas then the same said top tiers. I wouldn't care as much if it wasn't retarded bias that gets fair characters nerfed into the ground, i swear if paisy gets nerfed again after this I'm going to be pissed.

Nah, you're the dumb bitch, the combo is a 50/50 like Shiek's shit was prenerf. You took massive damage or you took masive damage and lost stage control or died.

I can't tell if it is one dedicated autist that does these threads after every smash tournament and switched from joker is OP to peach is OP for the shitposting potential or if it's just Yea Forums being retarded as usual. This is the place that birthed ACfag after all, I wouldn't be surprised either way.

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Have you thought that maybe in this particular instance that Sam was the better player, and was adapting faster than Leo was? I mean samsora has fought Leo multiple times, but their have been plenty of times where Sam did not get the dtilt consistently. The difference is that if you're legit hitting the combo as easily as you are despite not practicing, you're probably fighting shitters. After all, do you really believe that your unoptimized peach would stand a chance against any player who played at shine? No the fuck it is not it's telegraphed af. And most characters have an easy time staying out of it's range. It easy to bait it and punish it with a projectile or aerial. Sam is the best peach in the world and even he only managed to get it consistently those last two.games which again says more about samsora then it does peach.

You're retarded, Snake can get out of combos and pressure for free by just pressing the B button, can kill anyone who gets close enough to him with up tilt and can have the strongest stage control in the game with down b and grenades.

He's also nearly superheavy and is easy as fuck to use, unlike Peach.

Other combos being degenerate doesn't stop Peach Combo from being degenerate.
What makes peach good is not only this combo, but her best mechanic that clearly gives a clear advantage over all the other characters, and that's FLOAT, the only thing that makes this combo true in the first place.
Not only she can cancel his aerial attacks animation when landing, she can also stay in a fixed position, giving her more aerial options than 100% of the cast, i can assure she invalidates at least 70% of character recoveries with this mechanic.
It doesnt not help that her aerials are dont have that much landing lag, 14 frames from Up-air, 8 frames for neutral air, 9 frames for back air (also a kill move btw), 12 for forward air and 11 frames for down air.

>8 frames of startup is telegraphed
retard
he's good, not as good as peach.

Shit, there was a tourney this weekend? Are the highlights on YouTube yet?

FUCK I WAS SEEING JOKER FRAME DATA IM STUPID AS FUCK

Rosalina's Lunar landings, desynchs, moonjump, how to control luma and Rosalina has to take extra care with how she positions herself a certain way at all times because luma is frail. The Luma control and positioning aspect are why so many people failed to pick her up. The Lunar landings are all frame perfect and some of the more useful stuff is single frame.
Link needs to know what items are suitable for the current situation, how to manage them without them getting them turned around on him.
Snake is in a similar position to link.
You literally can't make a case for Ryu not being more difficult and not look like a retard, so I'm not going to go into detail
Shulk, despite his better framedata is actually worse than he was in 4. Shulk gets punished for landing hits, so he has to carefully space to avoid getting punished for landing certain attacks.
Ice climbers are also desync heavy and have some aspects that require being frameperfect.

wait are you actually mad about Peach lol

I was right about down tilt.
besides me being a stupid fuck, my point still stands.

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>all snake attacks are slow
ultimateframedata.com/snake.php
>f3 jab
>f4 ftilt
>f8 utilt
>f5 dash attack (with invincibility)
>f3 dair
>f7 bair

>>>>>>>>snake is slow

twitter.com/jan_ssbu/status/1143895882233892864?s=19
Ignore the first clip, we're interested in the controlling Luma's attacks desperately from Rosalina.

his f-tilt is so irritating, because it sends you so far away so quickly, that if you finally get in on Snake, and he pulls out this frame 4 move, you have to get in all over again

i'll give you that some of his attacks come fast, but they are very punishable, and it doesnt help he's the 50+th slowest character in the game.
Snake was only good early on, when MVD was winning tournament left and right, but everyone adapted and now we barely see snakes, but peaches? we will always have those unless she gets nerfed.

I like plYing ike because he has a big sword and hits hard

Not related to Smash 4, but fuck her goddamn down air in Ultimate
>basically gimps you no matter what
>can literally be inside of her and still get spiked just enough to be unable to recover as most characters
>if that's not enough the hitbox extends all the way past the stupid fucking ring
What the fuck is Sakurai on nowadays

Play her, and you'll see that is not the case. Her "spike" is hilariously weak, and won't work right until more than 60% for most characters, it is actually hard to hit with since it can easily just case a small tickle of knockback OR send you to the side a bit, and if luma hits instead you go up and to the side. There's a reason you didn't see Dabuz spiking repeatedly.

>he's slow!
He's a zoner so this doesn't matter. He's a heavy who is perfectly capable of getting faster characters away from him while also having the strongest keepaway tools in the game.

And stop pretending there was only 1 Snake main, Salem, MDV and Ally (F) show he's easily top tier, meanwhile I can't think of another notable Peach that's not from Japan.

never said there was only one, sorry for not being specific, my point remains the same, everyone has adapted very well against snake, that doesn't mean he's "easy" to win against.
I'm not denying he's top tier, trust me, he is, but he's not better than peach as a whole.

Shine 2019. It just ended and Samsora won, VGBootCamp should have matches up on YT soon.

Knowing what items to use or how to space properly with shulkand rosalina is not comparable. Do you actually know how to float cancel or tried to do it consistently in a match? Ryu requires different tech but i would not say it's harder or easier to learn, just different. I'll also give you ice climbers de synchs being harder, but the reward for mastering both ryu and ice climbers is just as good.
Literally sam is the only peach in top 16 since the game came out. The others struggle to be top 32. Meanwhile pt and olimar have like 5 each tournament, but no one complains about them nearly as much. When will people admit that just have a peach hateboner? The character is like not even top 5Frame data has nothing to do with being telegraphed. Its easy to tell when your opponent is going for a dtilt by how they are spaced. Or if they go for what seems like an unsafe nair, they are probably going to fastball dtilt, so just be patient and punish. Frame 8 is good but a long way from instant.

>lagless aerials thanks to float jump
You forgot to mention they're also full-jump strength with all the advantages of short-hops.

Who are the 5 olimars that are constantly getting into top 32? Also
>no one complains about olimar

>Knowing what items to use or how to space properly with shulkand rosalina is not comparable.
Luma isn't an extension of Rosalina, it's separate character that needs to be controlled and positioned for independently while still being tethered to another.Rosalina is doing a whole lot more than Peach is doing. We're not even touching on this shit

5 was an exaggeration. Although there legit was 4 pt in top 49. And tweak didn't even play pt.

You forgot to mention that controlling that other character is literally just pressing a button and properly spacing. You don't have any experience playing peach do you?

samsora does this combo constantly against the best players in the world, how the fuck it is "telegraphed", that's like saying every tilt is telegraphed and they should never hit, but they aren't, they sometimes do hit, and when they do hit, they don't start a 50% damage combo, it doesn't help that the move is spammable AND SAFE, because it's a tilt.
Don't forget that can also confirm into dtilt, making the combo even more bullshit.
No combo should be this easy to land.

Rosalina's lowest level tech is set up for a fucking grab, it is literally Dash attack cancel > wave land > grab.
Dash attack canceling alone more inputs and timing than a float cancel, now we're adding wavelands into the mix, for what's considered a base level tech for the character. Rosalina isn't bad in this game, she's just too much effort to play at the same level as Lucina, Joker and even Peach.

What I hate about Peach is how she's a fighter but just gets captured over and over in her games
>smash isn't about accuracy
I know but it still looks really fucking weird to see Peach combo on Bowser.

You're too autistic to play Smash then, a large number of fighters in this game are literal non combatants.

If you think dabuz is using that retarded tech to get his grabs you're giving these top players both too much and too little credit. Also wavelanding is literally pressing one button, it just has a fancy nameOnce again no one but sam is hitting that combo anywhere near that much. Just like tweak was getting consistent 50% percent strings with squirtle, or dark wizzy gets consistent juggles. Its because they are amazing players who are the best at their characters. Captain zack got amazing results playing an actually broken character in smash 4 and his peach looks like a fucking child next to samsora. If the response "it's just Leo" is an acceptable defense of joker than "it's just sam" is an acceptable defense of peach.
Also 50% is amazing but it's balanced by the fact that peach struggles to kill and dies easily. The nerfs that peach got were fine if not a bit harsh, the character is fine and balanced. Worry about buffing characters and not nerfing honest one's.

>Implying Dabuz has done shit with Rosalina in ultimate
Most of the time he does play Rosa, he loses and ends up switching to Palutena and Olimar.
Let's count the inputs that have to take place to do this one thing
Directional input
A
Y: Jumping too early will result in Luma not doing that it needs to
Directional Down
R
Z
Failure to let go of R in time will buffer a spot dodge.
Pressing Z too early but releasing R will result in the game not reading the input for some reason
Congrats, you no gained the chance to use one of your throw combos.

>You're too autistic to play Smash then
considering I shower twice a day that's literally impossible

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She's still the best character in the game, but its ok peach is a cool best character for ultimate. People really over rate joker and should focus on how many people are playing peach, pokemon trainer, and wario instead.

Float canceling just releasing the float at a specific frame. What is it with Peach mains overstating the skill required to play the character and being fags or tannies? You can count on a Peach main being one of these things or all of them.

MuteAce, BlazingPasta, LingLing, Meru, and CaptainZack are all very good peach players that regularly place near the top.

imagine being toon link in that gif haha

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Seriously, I know for a fact that all but one of these is gay or trans.

okay that pic is epic

I'd rather be Peach in that gif

No they dont. Mute ace and ling are the best of the two. And struggle to get 33rd. Which is impressive but considering that there are falcons and incineroars getting similar results that can be attributed to a variety of factors. Sam is the only peach getting consistent top 16. Period.
If the rosalina player with the best results isnt using it have you considered that maybe the tech is retarded and useless? Just because a character has tech does not make it viable
Maybe it's because people who don't play peach are convinced by leffen and twitter combos that peach is unga and broken despite not actually playing the character or being able to replicate the supposedly easy stuff. I wouldn't care, if it weren't you faggots moaning that will get a good character nerfed for no reason

>Maybe it's because people who don't play peach are convinced by leffen and twitter combos that peach is unga and broken despite not actually playing the character or being able to replicate the supposedly easy stuff. I wouldn't care, if it weren't you faggots moaning that will get a good character nerfed for no reason
Oh shut the fuck up, your character isn't skilled. The supposed hardest thing you have to do is let go of a button.

you niggers will always bitch about what character places top, shut the fuck up already

west smash play is shit and stale in the first place, stop letting leffen and twitter warriors dictate your opinion

go watch a jap tourney and calm yourself

If you don't think that peach requires skill to play, i deadass dont know what to say.

Not any more than any other character.

> "it's just Leo" is an acceptable defense of joker than "it's just sam" is an acceptable defense of peach.
this doesn't make it okay that peach can do this though, no matter the circumstances, this isn't the same case as hero which has drawbacks when using his OP moves, peach doesn't have these drawbacks.

You deadass think that olimar or joker require the same amount as peach?What op moves? Her down tilt is really good, but it's only super amazing and consistent in the hands of one of the best players in the world. Same as any other op moves of which there are plenty. Unless you want to make the argument that a frame 8 dtilt is the best move in the game. Also to say that peach has no drawbacks is a lie.

I'm sorry, did I make a typo? Your character isn't harder to play than anyone else in this game, you retarded tranny. You've already had your "high skill" techniques reduced to what they really are.

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Oh shit, Leo lost? My little burrito...

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that single bomb did more to this tournament than every hero match combined

>being this bad
>crying and shitting your diaper when you lose

That combo is not easy, especially against someone who knows how to deal with it. And you have to do it perfectly or it's not a true combo. Just doing consistent float cancel nairs at max speed takes more execution than anything else in Ultimate.