Why does this game have such terrible combat?

Unga bunga redguard warrior is an option if you're unwilling to learn rpg combat.

You hit more often than you miss once you get to 50 with a weapon.

>inb4 "duhhh zooooomers"
Morrowind is a good game, but defending the combat years later is stupid.
>but it's good once you level up!
The combat goes from terrible, to servicable, to trash once you can exploit it.

It has better combat than all these trash jrpgs you queers always go on about.

Build your character better.
Kids these days have it too easy. Back in my day, if you couldn't get gud, you'd die right in the tutorial dungeon.

R

P

G

The only three letters that matter in this dumb, dumb debate. Player skill should not translate into character skill, stats are and should be king.

Why are Gothic fans obsessed with Morrowind ? I see this video on every Morrowind thread. Cope harder nigger

Morrowind's combat is great, because it filters out the brainless retards.

You just don't know how to build your character or you have no stamina left because you always run

>Cope harder nigger
How eloquent.

A redguard with Long Blade as a major skill would start with 50, which is pretty damn good.
Also, many enemies were leveled. They were just subtler about it, and didn't make it all enemies. For the most part, cave bandits were static and outdoor encounters random.

It doesn't, you are terrible

There's this one Gothic autist on Yea Forums who has never missed even a single Morrowind thread in the past couple years to shitpost in. It's probably the same guy making the Gothic threads with the guy on the bridge every single day of the past half decade. Probably just butthurt because Morrowind is Yea Forums's favorite game while nobody gives a shit about Gothic. Still, how insane does one have to be to go to such lengths. He will undoubtedly come and post his shitty webms in this thread, too.

>be an imbecile
>pick a random class
>pick a random weapon/spell
>get frustrated and surprised when your character doesn't know how to use them.

Temple of Elemental Evil is dice roll combat and not shit. Morrowind just sucks.

user, I played Nord Barbarian Axe and it sucked.
Recommend me what you think is best

>hey bro mind walking into that mages guild over there for me? dont worry bro nobodies there haha :)

Attached: MW-npc-Aengoth_the_Jeweler.jpg (1000x1000, 138K)

Then why make it an action RPG? It gives the illusion that how you move, how you attack and how you aim matters, when it reality it doesn't.
Morrowind should have been turn-based or have a pseudo-action RPG system like Dragon Age Origins and Baldur's Gate, where you issue your characters commands instead of controlling them directly. Nothing more immersion breaking than seeing your attacks phase right through the enemy in real-time combat, or you evading attacks without moving at all just because your Agility stat is high. Such abstract combat is more fit for other combat systems.

Action RPGs have dice rolls, retard. See: Diablo

Ok, first did you attack your enemies while your stamina bar was low? Low stamina makes your swings very innacurate, imagine your character out of breath and trying to swing that axe it won't be very effective, don't be impatient take a break when you are tired or a stamina potion, always run until your stamina bar is halfway then walk until is full that way you will always be prepared for combat
Second, are you using the correct attack? The direction of your attacks MATTER if you trust your axe not only you have chances of failing but you will deal low damage to enemies.
Third be patient you don't get to swing an axe effectively in a day, it takes practice, soon enough you will be able to kill most of the stuff coming at you

this is bait right? nobody can be this stupid

Reminder that a duration of 1 second is more than enough for most spells.
No reason for Restore Strength 10 points 60 seconds. 100 points 1 second is perfect.
100 points telekinesis for 1 second is all that's needed. Cast the spell, open the menu. Game is paused, and you can grab things with your cursor.
100 fortify personality/speechcraft/mercantile 1 second. Interact with the NPC instantly after casting, the conversation freezes time.

D&D faggots that's why

Because Bethesda didn't understand the action part of action RPG.

>All these replies defending it
All of you ignore that at the start of the game your stats are invariably shit regardless of how much you build your character to use a specific weapon, so the early game is where this shit sticks out the worst, which is why everyone gets put off the game in the early stages.

>Ok, first did you attack your enemies while your stamina bar was low?
no
>Second, are you using the correct attack?
I'm using slashes, overheads and stabs

>Player skill should not translate into character skill

Attached: 1535578977042.jpg (177x219, 68K)

Diablo's combat is more abstract though because you just click on an enemy. He already made this point.

If the combat is action-based, I expect that actively dodging, aiming, hitting and my reflexes in general will play an important role on any fight's outcome. Instead, in Morrowind I get a shitty designed combat where none of that matters, as I can just stay there without actively dodging anything because my "dodge" stat tells me I dodged the attacks, or I can hit an enemy, and see how my attack clearly phases through the body, but the game claims I missed because my arbitrary weapon skill stat is not high enough.

If the player's ability to move means shit in Morrowind then they shouldn't have made it action-based. Even Gothic, a purely action-based RPG where player skill matters even more than your character's attributes, has random crits on hit, but this RNG is acceptable because player skill still matters a lot more. Meanwhile in Morrowind literally everything revolves around dice rolls.

Says you.
People suspend disbelief all the fucking time, you can manage it here.

The real problem isn't with this minor quibble but with you being frustrated when you die and lose progress.
You want the game to play itself like Skyrim, just a pointless loot treadmill with a completely flat difficulty curve.

found the skillet

>Even Gothic, a purely action-based RPG where player skill matters even more than your character's attributes
I understand the comparison you wanted to make but this statement is false, Gothic's combat is complete shit and your ability to explore and progress is heavily gated by armour upgrade tiers being locked behind plot progression.

>which is why everyone gets put off the game in the early stages.
>everyone
Atleast the zoomers who don't understand that you start the game as a random level 1 literally who that might be passable at a couple of skills, instead of being a good at everything hero at lvl1 like in Skyrim.

so you don't actually like RPGs

>there are people in this world too stupid for Morrowind combat

Just when you think things can’t get any lower.

>explore and progress
Meant to say explore and fight.

Know how I can tell you've never played the game?
Morrowind has you CONSTANTLY dodging magic attacks all the fucking time.

Also Gothic is barely even an RPG and still has shit combat, so nothing was even gained there.

>Because Bethesda didn't understand the action part of action RPG.
What did zoom-zoom mean by this?

Attached: 8693171B-7426-4B51-B168-492CB87A1FF4.jpg (1920x1989, 1020K)

>all these retards who cant into morrowind combat
I'm a retard when it comes to RPGs and even I'm hitting more than I'm missing by a good amount.

Or people who think that shit combat systems aren't worth putting up with. Imagine pretending that combat isn't the one thing Skyrim did do better.

Literally all RPGs have player skill as a factor, Morrowind included.

It didn’t. It was barely different from oblivion which wasn’t that much different from Morrowind. What drugs are you on?

>why does morrowind do this
play Daggerfall and try to think about what this game was coming from with that perspective

Daggerfall is like a first person dice roll with its combat, Morrowind just carried that on with some simplified elements and easier magic

Redguard+StrengthAgility favored attributes+Lover birthsign+Long blade in Major+specialization in Combat. There's an OP as fuck sword on top of a dresser in the guard tower right near Cuaius Cossades. Enjoy ez mode pleb

the only personal skill you can use in Morrowind to affect combat is abusing its obvious limitations
when you are actually swinging your weapon your skill means nothing

>it was barely different
>Game A has all hits determined by RNG after they connect to see if they actually deal damage or not
>Game B has all hits determined purely by the interaction of whether the attack connects or not, no RNG involved in this
They are completely different in execution and in feeling hence why there is such a divide between the fans of each in the first place.

>stabs
>with an ax
okay m8

youtube.com/watch?v=qYHXsa5AaY4

Skyrim is playing itself, like all modern loot-driven progression systems.
>fight with iron axe, takes 4-5 swings to kill bandit
>player levels up!
>now spawning bandit+, takes 6-7 hits
>player found steel axe!
>now take 4-5 hits
And so on and nauseum.
Levelled loot+levelled enemies makes the numbers and stats completely meaningless and flattens the progression core to RPGs.

You can start with 45 Long Blade and 60 Strength, and have shit like +25 agility or +10 damage from signs right out the door, what the fuck are you talking about?

>Levelled loot+levelled enemies makes the numbers and stats completely meaningless and flattens the progression core to RPGs.
I agree, but this isn't actually a complaint about the combat system.

And all of that will allow you to hit a mudcrab one in three times. Marvellous.

Nigger yes it fucking is, you just hate RPGs so much you think it isn't.

But you do dodge in Morrowind, retard. Literally just move out of range, are you fucking retarded?

>durr action rpgs are what I say they are and not what they actually are
Fuck off, underage faggot.

Except it isn't, the level scaling has absolutely nothing to do with the combat system. You could have the level scaling be completely absent and nothing about the combat system would change, or you could take Morrowind's combat and add level scaling to the game and nothing about its combat would change. They're entirely independent systems.

0/10, apply yourself

No, it would be (45+(Ag-15)/5+(Lu-30)/2)*(0.75+0.5*(fatigue/maxfatigue)) %

ITT retards that got casual filtered by morrowind's first mudcrab encounter claiming to know what RPGs are and talking shit in general

Attached: 2z3td3s.jpg (399x315, 34K)

It’s actually 50 long blade, I forgot about specialisation

it only means nothing because they made a shitty combat system

It's not even just Gothic. Arx Fatalis shits all over Morrowind as well.

its always weird seeing normies freak out over missing in morrowind
its like they don't know its a rpg and just assume its a dumb action game with a western fantasy skin

cue a webm of a guy running 24/7 and trying to attack a mudcrab while having zero stamina

Attached: 1304584180537.jpg (2050x750, 248K)

That's what dodging should always be, and what the enemies should be doing as well, just like visually connecting a hit should always register as an actual hit. Instead, we get an arbitrary weapon and dodge stats that determine accuracy. So in plus of the little active dodging we can do as players, if (you) fail to dodge the attack, your character somehow can still be proficient enough to "dodge" the attack without any visual representation of it. It's a fucking mess. Again, it's bad design.

I'm talking about the PROGRESSION, the treadmill that Skyrim puts you on and pretends offers any freedom.
The fact that you can't disentangle that from simple level scaling is a failing on your part.

How playable is AF on Windows 10?

>I'm talking about the PROGRESSION, the treadmill that Skyrim puts you on and pretends offers any freedom.
Then I have to ask why you're talking about progression in response to a conversation about the combat system when no one else was talking about progression, and why you said that it was part of the combat system when it isn't.

Attached: 1307912747126.png (429x410, 18K)

TES games are only good for their music.

Attached: 1536691727853222222.png (640x360, 20K)

Just use Arx Libertatis and it should be fine.

Combat is not terrible, at least not compared to other TES games, its the best in the series.

Also provides great level of customization and ways to play and enjoy (or troll) the game.

Wish more games like it that take the pen and paper systems and mechanics rich approach existed.

People assume it's an action game because it presents itself as an action game. Morrowind is a great example of how visual presentation of a combat system affects people's expectations of it, and accordingly how it's a bad idea to design a combat system that is made to look and feel like an action system when it actually isn't.

>is an action rpg where you directly control your character
>player skill has no impact on combat outside of how you assigned all your skills
Kotor plays more like an actually rpg, since it doesn't give the player control that implies you can land more attacks/dodge attacks.

>holding down m1 repeatedly becomes fun if you don't have to do it as much guys!
>if you don't want to have low stamina while fighting the hundred billion cliff racers that are on your dick every time you step outside then just stop running! And don't complain about having to spend an hour just walking around at a snail's pace every time you try to do a quest, obviously you're just a zoomer who can't appreciate the ~atmosphere~ created by the game's ugly graphics and single continuously looping track of background music!

it's RPG combat, you're not the one doing the actual fighting, the character is
and your character sucks at it

Better than Oblivion or Skyrim.
Not saying it's not terrible tho, but just look at Oblivion's combat. It's garbage. is there a good mod to fix it that doesn't mess up the game a lot?

Attached: 1543223750242.gif (250x232, 2.05M)

No, the design is fine, the game programming was limited. The only thing that needed to be done was to have an animation for dodging or blocking like there is with shields, and you cucks would be out of arguments. You are literally autistic.

>you're not the one doing the actual fighting
I didn't realise the game plays itself if you just sit back and don't interact with anything.

Diablo is an ARPG, you stupid faggot.

>People assume it's an action game because it presents itself as an action game
for its time as a 3D RPG it was very much an action game
you still need to remember the only real action-y elder scrolls is redguard, morrowind was the real sequel of daggerfall and that was almost totally dice rolls

Oh shit, Planescape Torment doesn’t play itself if you don’t touch the controls either, I guess it’s an action game after all

you interact and make decisions, combat is up to the character's ability
what makes it or any RPG a truly good RPG is how you develop a character, not how you yourself are playing in that world

It's part of the game.
By the time you figure the game out you'll be jumping over mountains, teleporting at will and flying at the speed of sound.
Meanwhile you can figure out all of Skyrim from a trailer and a 5 minute demo.

>for its time as a 3D RPG it was very much an action game
Not when Gothic 1 came out over a year earlier and as shit as its combat was it at least had attacking and dodging dependent on actually connecting hits instead of dice rolls.

The point of Morrowind was to seamlessly integrate combat with exploration. Going from reading a book to killing the owner of the bookstore without a single menu was pretty damn cool in 2002.

>player skill has no impact on combat outside of how you assigned all your skills
Have you not been reading this fucking thread, user? Honestly I think there's more skill in a game like this because not only do you have to actually click on enemies, like you would a modern Scroll's game, but you also have to manage your positioning and stamina and a lot of other factors to make sure that the fight is in your favor.

Is their RNG? Yes. Does that mean that the game has no skill? No, obviously not. RNG management is a skill too. It might be a skill that you don't like or that you don't care to learn, that's fine, but it is a skill all the same.

Why use Diablo as an argument you muppet? It's a bad as Morrowind in that regard.

don't skills in gothic just make your character able to use better weapons or combo differently?
not really the same kind of RPG qualities, it's all action/player skill based

I remember playing 2 ages ago and once I figured out top end sword combat I cleared all the orcs out from around the castle by myself, shit was great

I sure hope you're never invited to a DnD session.
>I got the goblin with my sword.
>w-well you rolled a 3, so-
>I SAID, I HIT THE GOBLIN. WHY DO YOU HATE ME, JERRY?

Torment, like Diablo, is several layers of abstraction removed from the action presented in Morrowind. Clicking on an enemy from an isometric view and having your character walk over to them and automatically attack them with their weapon is a vastly different presentation of combat to one where you have to do all of your character's movements and aiming with directly related controls for them. Which goes back to

Its a good point. I get the game is old but even back then it was regarded as having shitty combat so they definitely could have done better.

>you also have to manage your positioning and stamina and a lot of other factors to make sure that the fight is in your favor
but in reality these things lead to abusing the primitive combat system, so you're still gaming it as a person on a computer, not as a nigger elf swinging a club at a cliff racer

Because that is what action rpgs are, you stupid nigger, not what you imagine them to be.

>comparing a table top rpg to a computer rpg
Adapting ttrpgs was a mistake in the first place.

>Comparing a tabletop game that is entirely made out of imagination and narration of a setting and rules to playing an actual constructed video game

Attached: 1461402635074.jpg (1280x720, 98K)

well that was all RPGs on PC until they started to drift more toward action and instant gratification ultimately leading to Skyrim

there's a reason shit like Divinity: OS and 2 are so well regarded

>an actual constructed video game
>...which is also built with narration of a setting and strict rules

I'm not going to waste time arguing this with you when you know full well yourself how stupid it is, you disingenuous fuck.

You seem to be under the impression that what you've stated here is some kind of objective fact rather than a weird hang-up you have based on what you believe is improper.
It's really not a big deal that the hit% is abstracted, just try to deal with it.

CRPG heavily relied on imagination from the fucking start, you faggot.
Even later, when we had actual skill checks in dialogues as a standard, you wouldn’t get a fucking animated cutscene showing how you passed the sleight of hand check, you just get the result.
There is no difference between that and not having some intricate dodge animation play when you whiff an attack.

>People assume it's an action game because it presents itself as an action game.
first thing you see in morrowind is a character sheet with a shitload of stats and numbers. just because a game has an attack button in 3d doesn't mean it suddenly won't have rpg mechanics.

Because first person can't handle melee. It'd work better as a CRPG.

How can people not see that
>low skill = low damage
is a much worse system than
>low skill = low hit chance

when you do low damage you have more of a reason to just stick with it until you start doing high damage, meaning it's extremely easy to just pick up whatever fucking weapon you want to use and use it independent of what your class/skills are, which defeats the purpose of having skills and classes to begin with.
when you miss a shit ton you are very actively discouraged from trying to go outside of your character's boundaries, since missing is a really frustrating mechanic at its core. it stops you from trying to be that fag that wants to be the jack of all trades in RPGs.
although I think the two should actually meet in the middle, for example perhaps you have a chance to miss until your weapon skill reaches 50 or so, and then you start rising in damage output and your hit chance is 100%. would be hard to balance though

Attached: 1563925846833.png (1920x1080, 2.95M)

Dark Souls has stats and numbers and it's still an action RPG.

Why does EVERY elder scroll game has such terrible combat?

Attached: 1565997614714.jpg (681x496, 27K)

>You seem to be under the impression that what you've stated here is some kind of objective fact rather than a weird hang-up you have based on what you believe is improper.
Feel free to argue it if you think it's wrong.
>It's really not a big deal that the hit% is abstracted
It obviously is, or this discussion wouldn't happen every time Morrowind is talked about, and it wouldn't be the same discussion people have been having for almost 20 years.

I seriously have no idea how you think this comparison is relevant.

>defending Morrowind melee combat

Oh Christ. The combat is based of retarded DnD rules, which translate to shitty gameplay. Thankfully we’ve moved past those systems now a days.

bethesda sucks at making good combat. they literally had to bring on people from bungie to help them make the combat better in fallout 4

higher skill should translate into new and better movesets and that's all it should do. obviously that's difficult to integrate so most developers just go for the "deal more damage / higher accuracy" approach.

you're not going to waste the time because you're arguing from the position of an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about

this whole thread is a bunch if turds b8ing and whining about a game that's literally designed to be a mix between a tabletop RPG and a 3D action game

Except in both cases you raise the skill by doing it anyway and if you were doing low damage instead it would take around the same time anyway because in the low hit chance case you didn't trade off the damage.

I don't think people disagree, we just think low skill = low hit chance still fucking sucks

Morrowind IS the middle, weapon skill influence attack chance, and stats influence both attack chance and damage

>that is what action rpgs are
Yeah, and? Told you they're shit, and you think you've got some solid argument by typing out "DUDE DIABLO RETARD".
Off you fuck now lassie.

>RNG management is a skill
RNG isn't though, so good work pissing away your time typing that out.

There's nothing to argue because all you've said is that it's bad because it's not what people would expect.
Defying expectations isn't a sin or something.

>combat is based of retarded DnD rules,
No, it isn’t.

that's assuming that you level up depending on how much damage you do, which at least in the elder scrolls is not the case, it's how many times you hit stuff.

>Dark Souls has stats and numbers and it's still an action RPG.
yes, so is secret of mana and it has missing in combat
bringing up random mainstream games aimed at retards isn't going to help your case

it seems that people who started with skyrim just want morrowind but heavily gutted in the rpg aspect

It is the Bethesda way.

Arena and Daggerfall used the same system more or less and were just as action-oriented. They made you hold RMB and wave the mouse around to swing (with attack type determined by the direction you waved it) instead of the click/hold/release of Morrowind (with attack type determined by movement direction and attack strength determined by time held).

Oblivion and Skyrim ditched the combat of the earlier TES games for one where instead of skill deciding accuracy it decides damage. Attack strength is now constant and attack types are replaced by power attacks which unlock based on skill level/perks and provide unique effects. In some ways simplified, in other ways deepened, and most agree that it was an improvement overall to how the games feel and play.

If you want to go even further back, Bethesda got their idea for the dice roll combat (and most of their initial gameplay design) from Ultima Underworld, which is generally considered the first 3D action RPG ever and a substantially better game than anything Bethesda has ever produced. There were some other early action RPGs that used the dice roll system, though most are forgotten today. Bethesda carried the tradition on longer than any other.

Now that we are up to speed, what will TES VI do? How will it improve the combat from Skyrim? Or will it regress? Remember when everyone got excited that Zenimax bought Arkane and thought it would mean good combat for Skyrim? Looking back, that was actually pretty late in Skyrim's development, so maybe it was too locked in to change without delaying release. Maybe they will finally be able to borrow the talent of their sister studio to design TES VI better from the ground up.

every time a new friend mentions trying morrowind, I just tell them to pick redguard with longsword major and they start out with 65 in the skill. it gives them a crutch to fall back on if need be and almost every time they end up enjoying the game and learn how not to be shit like almost every OP in these threads.

No, it isn’t, you stupid fag, because that’s not how skill increase works in Morrowind.
Why is the thread full of retards who speak out their ass?

>all you've said is that it's bad because it's not what people would expect.
>Defying expectations isn't a sin or something.
That's really simplifying the point, which wasn't so much that it's bad because it defies expectations, but rather that it defying expectations is why people think it's bad. It presents itself as working one way and actually works in a different way so people don't like that disconnect and don't like the combat system as a result. The other guy who brought up KOTOR had the right idea, making it more obviously styled as an RPG system and less as an action system would have made Morrowind's combat significantly better received and understood.

So you would lower the rate of skill gain accordingly. No shit a change to a system would necessitate adjustments to other systems related to that system to keep everything working well.

>it’s an action rpg, it shouldn’t have dice rolls
>action rpgs have dice rolls
>lol who cares action rpgs are shit lol
Time to suck start a shoot gun, boyo

>can't even quote me
>has to resort to making shit up
>dude kys
Truely embarrassing my friend. Better buck up your ideas before going back to school.

>stay behind corner
>wait till enemy wastes all spells
>come out and whack them to death
great combat

Imagine a soldier losing all his equipments during a war fight.
He sees an enemy approaching that can be eliminated if he get closer in silence and hit him with a shovel that is nearby.

>he grabs the shovel and sneak behind the enemy and then attack.
>he misses 5 times because he didn't train how to hit with a shovel.
>he finally hits the enemy but just barely, the enough to throw the enemy weapon away.
>the enemy takes his knife from the belt.
>he misses 7 times though cuz he neglect the training.
>the struggle lasts around 3 minutes
>on the total 126 attacks were missed on this close encounter.

That's Morrowind combat that a lot of people defends
>mfw

Attached: 6a60914c-b9d8-4b84-a567-f413eefc5785..jpg (798x770, 195K)

No, but seriously, you should kill yourself. This is just pathetic.

To compensate for the incredible broken ways the game snowballs you.

>Go somewhere, find wizard that literally falls from the skyy and gives you a super jump scroll.
>Mind your own shit
>Find mine
>this sucks
>Leave
>Go to vivec, minding your shit you end up at some shit hidden house
>they give you a free Daedra weapon of your choice if you tell them where that mine is
>Proceed to do some alchemy and cocaine
>Now you're able to become God itself
>Proceed to sleep cuz tired
>Some faggot wakes you up
>kill him
>Drops some OP Assasin Armor
>Farm for infinity
>Proceed to sell it to the goblin in that shit city
>Profit

Look at it, bethesda always find a way to fuck up the player powerlevel scale, one of the biggest examples is FO3 where if you complete Operation Anchorage just after you get out of the vault, you literally get the Power armor training, The best power armor in the whole game, and a bunch of op guns.

Learn English, Pablo

>ESL frogtard weighs in

Attached: 1525826580264.jpg (664x767, 319K)

Fatigue was the single worst addition to the elder scrolls games. Had they completely left it out they would have been better off for it.

That's a fair criticism, but I'll say that some people prefer that sort of system to the alternatives and many people are just straight up fine with it.

Are you stupid? You replied without even attempting to refute my point while also telling me I'm wasting my time. Why?

>I’m a zoomer who played not only Morrowind, but fucking Fallout 3 only after expansions/dlc came out
>wtf doing the expansion first gives me good stuff, fucking bethesda

I will once you aquire good taste in games, so maybe i never will

>just kill yourself
Still waiting on the quote that shows by vehement hypocrisy my dude. Think of it as a summer project.

>Calling someone a zoomer just because they have the brain to play the superior version of a game instead of the shit release with no content.

You are trying too hard to look cool.

Morrowind thread!
Favorite skill? Favorite town?
>Acrobatics and Sadrith Mora

Attached: 3618C7E1-0B4D-4C20-9BFB-EA51D4D589A3.jpg (1280x720, 208K)

>certain game mechanics are inferior to real life

Colour me fuckin' surprised.

based

>be a high ranking member of the mages guild
>the dude instantly proclaims you're a thief as soon as you enter the guild hall

I AM SO TIRED OF SEEING THIS SHIT. SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PLAY ANOTHER GAME IF YOU REFUSE TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GAME

Spear -Balmora

There's literally an option in the menu that makes all your attacks use the best method available

In an rpg player skill is about manipulation of the game rules, logic and stats

Not difect control of your character. Though that still is rewarded (you can cheese most anything in the game given time and patience, if you have good character control and fatigue maintenance)

My favorite part of mages guild was lying to that Balmora quest giver about every quest she sent you out to do and then just throwing her under the bus during her Telvanni spy hunt quest.

>do the same in oblivion
>the shovel transforms into a wet noodle and bounces off them because you didn't train how to hit with a shovel
>the enemy stabs you with his felt tip knife which only tickles you because he 'neglect the training'
if you want to go with the realism argument they're equally shitty in different ways. at least in morrowind if you're strong and hit someone hard with a hammer they'll fucking drop as they should whether you're an expert fighter or a big dumb brute. the big dumb brute's attacks are just much easier to avoid.

bethesda's never gotten it right because they insist on using the most braindead core combat systems in all their games (yes including morrowind) because they insist on combat being a clickfest with stats. tying damage to skill doesn't make any sense whatsoever. there's a reason the most popular combat mods increase the damage massively both taken and received. skill should give you more techniques to string attacks together and make your animations tighter so you can take advantage of openings easier and leave smaller ones yourself. you know... actually influence your character's skill with their weapons instead of just dialing some numbers behind the scene.

>when you miss a shit ton you are very actively discouraged from trying to go outside of your character's boundaries, since missing is a really frustrating mechanic at its core. it stops you from trying to be that fag that wants to be the jack of all trades in RPGs.
nigga just go to a trainer.

Why doesn't Bethesda just remake Morrowind in a newer engine while making people wait for TES VI Yea Forums? They could have probably remade Oblivion to before VI. Its been nearly a decade since Skyrim.

>and have shit like +25 agility or +10 damage from signs right out the door
Actually that's a common misconception but the Warrior sign does not give you +10 damage. It gives you +10% chance to hit globally, which is equivalent to gaining a bonus +10 in all weapon skills. This bonus is unaffected by fatigue so it will remain a flat +10% even if you're totally empty, although conversely it won't be increased by having high fatigue either.

The +25 agility sign, by comparison, only translates to a +5% to your base attack chance. (modified by fatigue; the bonus will go as low as +3.75% at empty or as high as +6.25% at full)
But it also has a +5% dodge chance, so it's still good all around.
The Thief sign gives you a +10% dodge chance so the agility bonus is like having half of the Warrior and half of the Thief, along with a neat little paralyze power.
But if you want to maximize your accuracy at the start of the game, The Warrior sign is by far the best.

Been meaning to give dagerfall a go. Is it worth it?

I played morrowind for the first time recently (finished main quest after 2 weeks of fucking about and am now so OP i don't care anymore) and absolutely loved it. About a half hour into oblivion and it just feels so much worse, I was actually disgusted that you can't literally loot what they're wearing and that their inventory and equipment aren't linked.

Which robes did you wear for walking around town?

Attached: MW-item-Extravagant_Robes_Male_02.jpg (718x520, 93K)

Literally went in blind, saw the linked of accuracy to fatigue straight away, and bunny hopped everywhere and just chugged a potion of restor fatigue whenever i was jumped by a flying nigger

Alteration/Balmora

Fucking love Balmora. Hated it at first and now its my go-to. Same with ald-ruhn to be honest.

Vivec can go to hell though holy fucking shit who thought that city design was a good idea

>game lies to you

Attached: morrowindingredients.webm (1280x960, 2.55M)

I just go dunmer, custom class, make speed one of my favored stats, take the steed sign

Boom, 85 speed out the gate.

Honestly the most painful part of starting a new character is the slow running speed AND shit jumping, at least if i can run near max unenhanced speed from the beginning it doesn't feel as fucking painful

Always exquisite. Not going to sacrifice enchant potential for my superjump outfit. I did like the design but it's a shame that there was only one variant so unless you gimp yourself by using a weaker robe you'll always look the same at the end.

The best part is that the chance of successfully eating an ingredient is also dependent on your fatigue. So all those restore fatigue food items are most effective when you don't need them.
This is extremely realistic as it simulates the deep complexities of the human digestive system. Try eating a whole loaf of bread while you're still literally gasping from a full sprint and you'll quickly understand what failure means.

You get full alchemy experience from eating even with no effect, and you only need a 10-15 in the skill for it to work 100% of the time.

That's not true, I was playing just ten minutes ago, my alchemy is around 30 and food still doesn't always effect me, and on failure, I check the skill and it gained no experience.

you need to cook it, same for daggerfall and skyrim

I swear to Christ...it must be a change from the code patch.

Is your character a dumbass tho?

extreme realism does not make for good video game mechanics and neither does lying to the player about said mechanic.

why is this not default?

wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Research:Player_Craft_Skills#Wortcraft

>magicEffect is the first effect of ingredient eaten
>x = (pcAlchemy + 0.2 * pcIntelligence + 0.1 * pcLuck) * fatigueTerm
>roll 100, succeed if roll

>that spoiler
the leaps you morrowfags are willing to take to justify shit design

>Enter some random ass Dwemer ruins
>Suddenly vampires and cattle
>Can't rest since it's illegal there for some fucking reason
>tfw too heavy from full ebony loot

I must've been thinking of when the first effect is revealed. Thanks for the details user.

You stumbled upon a vampire clan hideout. If you were a vampire of the appropriate bloodline you could visit there and complete a few quests to gain an amulet that lets you teleport back there instantly and the right to feed (absorb health) from the cattle without consequence.
If you're not a vampire, or a vampire of a different bloodline, they're just some high level enemies. Pretty sure there was even a quest to clear out one of the clans if I remember right.

>Use recall to transfer loot to house
>Every container is full
;-;

Imagine if the magicka cost for recall scaled with your inventor weight. How would that effect guild teleportation prices?

Container limits are based on weight so drop the heaviest shit in them like two handed weapons and medium/heavy armor on the floor or put them on a shelf if you want to be all fancy-like. Should leave be plenty of room for your ingredients, scrolls, ammo, or other misc stuff in the containers.
Note you need to close the container then open it again for the weight limit to go back down, if you take something out and try to put something else back in while you're still in the menu it'll still say it's full even though it isn't.

Not rated highly enough

Because Dungeons and Dragons style role playing elements were still very popular around its time of release

Attached: 582816F9-4D00-4DA2-AC17-D03ADC574C92.png (500x730, 170K)

Don't items despawn if you them in containers or out in the open too long?

Nope. Outside of some rare quest related instances the only way for items to ever despawn in Morrowind is to put them on a decaying corpse.
A decaying corpse is anything that actually died in the game.
Corpses that were originally corpses stay forever and work as unlimited storage, with a particularly famous case being one in a convenient home in Balmora.

Anything you drop, sell, or store anywhere (even in owned containers) will stay there forever. However if you drop a huge number of unstacked items in a single cell they may end up being transferred to the "overflow loot bag" that will spawn to reduce memory consumption.

Why does no other game let you wear robes over your armor and clothes underneath your armor

Not in Morrowind
Containers only reset if they're ""organic"" (in which case you can't add anything to them anyways) or if you haven't added anything to the container (also a non issue)

Big letdown when I started Oblivion in which 99% of space is unusable for housing because everything fucking resets if you fuck off for two days

Do note however that if you put stuff into a owned container it becomes property of the owner of the container

Attached: skyrim.jpg (840x623, 159K)

For me it's the Telvanni Mole Crab Helm

>"overflow loot bag" that will spawn to reduce memory consumption.
I remember that bag. I'd commit a crime and drop everything I own because I couldn't recall if it was stolen or not, had giant bag just filled with gold.

If you put an item in an owned container does it still despawn after two days?

Permanent corpses are great for storage, but if they aren't near your home, they're not convenient.
Look up the "soul trap glitch" and follow the instructions to summon a creature. Done correctly, it will be permanent. Kill this creature, and its corpse is also permanent. So, summon it in your bedroom, kill it, and enjoy your personal permacorpse storage.

Morrowind has nothing to do with D&D.

Elder Scrolls games were inspired by Ultima and D&D.

mechanically they are nothing alike

No, even other people's property stays forever

I should add that the only reason I mentioned property changing owners is because if you get apprehended by the guards for something else and you have those "stolen" items on you they'll end up in the evidence chest

what about the evidence chest does it persist?

Yep

Attached: 1563157085684.jpg (358x599, 103K)

So I want my items to stick around, I have to let them sit two days in someone's container, steal them back, commit a crime and pay the fine/go to jail, and then my items will persist inside the evidence chest?

What
No
They'll persist anywhere no matter what

Attached: Will.jpg (630x418, 40K)

Morrowind combat is trash, but at least it is RPG combat, not fucking braindead action game.

so it's terrible.

Oh so just store stuff in the evidence chest.

>Why does this game have such terrible combat?
It doesn't, it's just a pleb filter. You're a pleb.

Now I know you're playing me
You had me going there

Attached: 1558057324193.jpg (1200x1200, 333K)

Ken Rolston, lead designer, is a table top guy first and foremost and has worked on many of them.
I think even Wizards of the Coast IIRC.

I'm not sure what are you talking about.

This one.

Attached: MGE Screenshot 2019-08-25 23.11.44.056.png (800x600, 1.37M)

I love this mole crab helm too. This and the cephalod one are some of my favorites, up there with the Daedric Faces

The overflow loot bag is avoided by saving your game inside and instantly reloading before you leave. It bypasses the flag that causes some excess items to be placed in an overflow loot bag.
t. user with pillows covering my entire floor

faggots cant into stats

it was even worse in diablo since in morrowind you just swing in the general direction, only time aim matters is when using marksman against a distant moving target like cliff racers but in diablo you need to click directly on the enemies who are small and sometimes move erratically and then still roll to hit anyway
was pretty annoying, at least you could hold once you clicked them the first time but really fuck both morrowind and diablo for making me spam clicks so much, i must have went through a dozen shitty mice over a period of ~4 years

With enough strength, skill points, and weapons, Morrowind doesn't make you spam clicks. Oblivion does though.

depends on what you use, I went for short blade builds so I could get more use out of weapon enchants
also a lot of clicking for using items that aren't quickslotted (had to drop on character in inventory) and persuasion and repairing etc.
in oblivion im pretty sure you didn't hold to power up like in morrowind, holding just made you swing repeatedly so you didn't need to spam as much even for short blades
or maybe im thinking of skyrim its been a while since ive played

>hit rarely but do significant damage
or
>hit every time but do minuscule damage

It is worth trying, but it's very different from Morrowind. It's not like it cost anything to try.

It's hard to imagine being this dumb. Sometimes I wonder what it's like live like this.

It looked better in the art. I'm guess they just ran out of time.

Attached: TheArtOfMorrowind19.jpg (594x902, 164K)

Dice roll combat combined with realtime action combat which is terrible af

Give it up already,morrofags will defend this until the end of time

Don't have a favorite skill, but I like Ald Velothi. I like all the water shack towns, I just wisht they were bigger. Ald-Ruhn is probably my favorite out of the major towns.

so it's terrible, then.

Replace Oblivion with Gigachad and Morrowind with this guy

Attached: in-this-moment-i-am-euphoric-not-because-of-any-31358944.png (500x586, 147K)

>you just have to pick a weapon with skills you're good at but don't pick skills that you use a lot and you have to manage your fatigue but don't pick things that affect fatigue because you will over level those skills because you're always running and jumping and you just have to kite strong enemies away from their loot and abuse magic if you can't figure this out then just read a wiki and install mods until it makes sense

you can easily be a jack of all trades anyway thanks to retarded tes leveling system

user never once said that you can't manually dodge, kneejerking Morrowtards. He's saying the "action" elements are so insignificant and fails to compliment the "rpg" aspect of the system hard.

>2019
>people still defend Morrowinds terrible combat
Played it and beat it back in middle school. It was shit then and it's shit now. My advice? Over level to the point the games retarded combat logic has no choice but to let you hit, or just play Skyrim which is the better game anyway

*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*
*miss*

*hit*

OMG THIS COMBAT IS SOOOOO GOOD! YOU'RE A FUCKING INPATIENT BRAINLET FUCK IF YOU HATE THIS BASED DICE ROLL COMBAT!!! FUCKING ZOOMERS!

Attached: 1566213015940.webm (720x720, 765K)

or
>any attempts at attacking will cause the enemy to try to dodge your attacks by moving away from you thus making sense on why your attacks missed